Test Match Special - Matthew Hayden’s damning thoughts on Australia World Cup exit

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Legendary Australia opener Matthew Hayden joins Daniel Norcross and Aatif Nawaz at the Pallekele International Cricket Stadium just days after the Aussies’ defeat to Sri Lanka to give his damning indictment on the team’s elimination from the T20 World Cup.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Very delighted to say that we've got on TestMat special here for the first time in this tournament. Legendary Australian opener and broadcaster who's here with the world v. Matthew Hayden alongside Artif Nawaz. And we just want to talk about Australia and their woes in the T20. format at the moment. It's stunning the world of cricket at the moment that Australia have had such a poor tournament but perhaps

Hades, it hasn't surprised you. The hope lies in Ireland would you have ever heard in Australia talking about that? Wow. Yeah, there's been some woes. I mean the reactions back home, the mood if you like of the nation has been

rather heavy because I think we've been sort of sold down the stream a little bit in terms of our selection and how we've gone about preparing for this World Cup. It's actually sort of smacks, to be fair, a little closer to home, a little shot across the bowers closer to home. It's sort of smacks of England and their question in the ashes preparation. This kind of self-fulfilling prophecy that kind of we're okay and things are, no, don't

worry, it's a healthy mix of denial. and maybe even just mismanagement. So if you go right back to a selection case, it's not like these World Cups aren't scheduled ahead of time. Australia have obviously been a little bit gazumped by these late injuries. Cummins obviously an enormous loss. And also Hazelwood that you'd have to say is right up there in the top five Premier Fast Bowlers.

across T20 format. In fact, I go as far as to say, ever since he was managed by Dony, at CSK, he's had a real uplift of the way that he's approached T20 cricket. But look, every nation has got these problems, and Australia, it's not like their cupboard of talent is bare. Old Mother Hubbard has produced wonderful cricketers in Australia for many years, and we know we enjoy coming to countries like Sri Lanka, and we just haven't prepared for what we've seen.

We've picked power hitters in finesse type conditions. We have picked finishes. You know what I'm looking at these, what do you call this? Like Tim David at number four, for example? Well, no, I'm looking at this, not a run sheet. It's a team sheet. I'm looking at the team sheet, and I'm thinking, okay we've got Cooper Connolly at 8

and a front line option with the ball in conditions which Sri Lanka would just relish someone like Cooper Connolly and his inexperience to lengthen our batting. Cameron Green didn't damage the scoreboard again with the ball yet picked as an all-rounder. Tim David I think is the best finisher in good batting conditions.

I don't think there's any better in him. Look at the way that he finished off for RCB in the IPL last year. He was magnificent. But these surfaces, they're way trickier than that. You have to start. And you have to be able to manipulate the strike in conditions, which are going to be holding, if not just turning a fraction. Marcus Stoinus with the ball is not going to have that kind of threat

that we know and appreciate Australian. bowling lineups to have always we're full of bowling as a general rule. You know, so it's really who we haven't got here. You know, Smith coming in late to the equation, I would have argued in these conditions. Had we have started it in India, I've got no problems with Steve Smith's handling of this World Cup. But because it's here, and he does have that ability, and we've seen the role of batting, units that have anchor-type roles.

We saw one last night. Patham Nassanka was brilliant, but Kusar Mendus came on and just played kind of a more of a sheet anchor role. Smart cricket, good cricket. So there's just so much to unpack and unlock in this sort of self-professing prophecy of management of the Australian cricket team, similar to the way that, you know, the English team management came to Australia and just didn't quite get it right. Is there, I mean, there's a slight perception, Hados, outside of Australia.

Australia perhaps don't value T20 cricket as highly as the other formats. I mean, obviously, they were terrific in the ashes against England. But prior to that series, they played the Chapel Hadley series against New Zealand, which they won by a clean sweep, 3-0 series win. But they didn't play any of the T20 cricket other than the Big Bash. until they went over to Pakistan and washed in that series, a 3-0 by Pakistan in Lahore. That was their only real sort of international prep for this World Cup.

Just listening to you there, you feel like there hasn't been a lot of thought put into it. There hasn't been a lot of preparation and data applied to what it is they need to succeed in these conditions. Is it fair to sort of question how much Australia values T20 cricket? Look, I think there has been some history in the early start-up phase, of T20 cricket and I think the country has got

well and truly over that I mean it's it loves to arrive at ICC tournaments and try and dominate and it has done

so very effectively over the years across the formats the only thing that I'll say is that it just feels like we've come

with a certain type of play and that's what we saw in the ashes there's a certain playing ecosystem, if you like, that allows, for example, a Harrybrook to smash a ball out of the park

and the last ball before lunch in Perth and you're just on a wing and a prayer. So there's, it's almost like a stubbornness or a, or, the word's not bully because I think that's, that could be well taken out of context, but there's a, there's a plan A and that plan A is called power. And it's a day and age of power. And that's really been the key, you know, when you look at sides that dominate this World Cup, in India, that's certainly the case.

These conditions, though, are different. They're not such pure batting surfaces. And that requires methodology. That, if you like, almost requires kind of a bit more of an old-school approach and way of thinking about the game that allows you to stay in the contest. Because if you're three and four wickets down in the power play, you're not in the context of the game. You've wasted as what we're calling in this T20 World Cup or your consolidation phase. You set back then in your acceleration phase.

And then in your finish, goodness me, I mean, we saw, you know, what was a magnificent finish from Tichana last night in the face of Baderana not being there and just having a shutdown of play with Tamiroa. those final two overs were just, they were just icing on the cake to what had been an unbelievable last 10 overs of that match for Sri Lanka. So, you know, lots of things went, you know, really right for Australia in the first 10 overs

and then everything went wrong from that point. Well, this is what, one of the things I would have touched on because it was completely baffling watching Australia's selection and planning process. Matt Renshaw, when I saw that he was in the squad, I thought, this is an intriguing selection. I'd seen him doing well on the Big Bash.

He's a decent form, but he's not necessarily someone that you think of is going to be like a key batter for them. But actually, stop scored. Previous game he got 60-odd. And the conditions yesterday, he could have been absolutely crucial because having got 104 in 8.3 overs, and then to lose 10 wickets for 77, and you've got Cam Green,

who just doesn't look in great nick with the bat. But Tim David coming in any nick with the bat. I think you've been way too kind there. I mean, he has just looked awful with the bat. He looks woody. He looks tinny. He looks like he's just a man with no confidence. And I'd be very surprised if actually that's not exactly the case.

Matt Ranshaw has come with no baggage to this tournament. He actually had a really good series back home in Australia and the ODIs. He's been a man that's been, I believe, very ill-treated. He's no doubt that he should be in our test team either, in my opinion, just because of the weight of performance. I mean, form is temporary class as permanent. But the reality of it is it matters in cricket. You know, it's a confidence game.

It's very difficult to come on shore without any form and then hope that your luck turns around. It just doesn't work that way. So, you know, potential versus form is an equation that is always on the selection table as a contemporary way to look at how an approach be given the fact that we are and will see in the future high risk cricket. I mean, you can't score 10 and over without risk.

I'm telling you that right now. It is hard to do. And we expect it from Head and Marsh and we got it. So they're the sort of cases that people mount. But it's also to do with form. I mean, Marsh himself has showed outstanding form in the short format of the game. to the point where his forms kind of been overlooked in the longer formats of the game, which is something, again, the selectors have kind of benchmarked and pigeonholed players into being.

So I think the selection issues have got, you know, some real questions around them and have left all of Australian cricket fans thinking, what happened? Well, you've drawn a very worthy parallel with England and the ashes, and I think, for example, Sharab Bashir, who is groomed to be the spinner, ended up not playing. Will Jacks is then ending up as a part-time off-spinner batting at eight. At best, part-time spin. Oh, absolute best. And then we've got similar thing here where Josh Hazelwood is unavailable. He goes out of the team. And they go, right, we're going to replace him with Steve Smith. They can't think of a less like for like. I'm not saying Steve Smith shouldn't have been selected, but it hints at a confusion at the heart of what's going on. So the question I want to ask here is because you'll know more about this than we do in England.

is is this just one of those things that happens to a team where they it's a transition so some guys aren't there there's no comments there's no hazelwood nuts through injury stark's retired is this a transition thing those kind of like growing pains of creating a new side and sometimes selectors get a little bit confused try different people doesn't quite work out but give it 12 months and they'll alight on the right solution or is this something systemic are there players that you think should have been in this squad, should have been in that team yesterday, aside from Steve Smith, who actually fielded at the end, but that aren't in that squad. Well, I think the selection for a start,

I would have, yes, I think there's people not only back home in Australia that should be in this team, but I believe that there's people in their dugout of the Australian cricket team that should have been in play yesterday. That's two fails. Yeah, so for me,

you've got Xavier Bartler, who was dropped in the last game, This is the role of confidence, right? So he's dropped in the last game, comes back in and plays in the evening of this match, in what is virtually was going to be the semi-final for Australia. And then you've got Sean Abbott also in the dugout. And you've got Ben Dorcas as well. And you've got Cooper Connolly, for example,

who's picked as a bowling all-rounder in conditions which Sri Lankan players relish. I mean, if you don't have a good, If you don't have a spinner, that can be a front-line spinner. And this is the mistake that England made. And when you think back to your winning campaigns, what did that really look like from an England point of view? And what did it look like for an Australian point of view? I mean, we've got lime, we've got worn.

Swan was magnificent, wasn't he, when he came out to Australia on the first tour? And these decisions, they're very much based on the eternal roles that players, overtime play and a spin bowling unit is something that's so critical to this format of the game. Adam Zampa had an off night. It's not a bit of an off tournament, doesn't it? It's just not quite happen for him.

We saw quite a few drag down to his first ball of overs, that sort of thing. Well, that was in particular, right? His first over I think who was on strike was Cussar Mendus and he dragged his first ball down, disappeared out through midwicket region, tried to come back in the over, did so okay,

and then dragged his last ball down. So he's gone Our key weapon has gone for eight or more off his first over. That can happen. I mean, Adil Rashid's had quite a torrid tournament, and he's definitely England's sort of gun leg spinner. But are there spinners in Australia that should be there instead? I mean, Cooneman's in the squad, but I'm not sure that I really see the depth of Aussie spinning, much like there's no depth in English spinning at all.

I think that our spinning depth is not too bad. I think it's always going to be hard. You imagine anyone that came behind Shane Worn are going to get compared immediately to those sort of numbers and that sort of pressure. I think Todd Murphy's got a big role to play without any question as well. And Matt Kurnum can also play a role across the formats as well. And it has actually got a few opportunities

and just hasn't quite got the longevity in selection or the trust maybe in selection. So to me that's not really the issue. the issue in this tournament was that we just picked way too many part-time all-rounders. You know, and so what that meant is that Ellis and Zampa, our more front-line and consistent bowlers in our attack, just didn't have the support. I mean, these guys, they have such good match-up thinking. You know, so even when I look at, for example, the Chirang,

can bowling up line up last night. The matchups are obvious. I mean, you get through Hamata, Walagi, and Tickshana. Tickshana.

And suddenly you've got Duss and Channika that's going to have to bowl his overs and he's going to get pounded. You know, so those matchups can be the difference. In 2020 cricket, what we know is that the margins are really small.

You know, so if you've got a 10-run shift just because your matchups are in a position that line up according to the game, it's game over. You know, it's not too many times that you see, you know, really compelling victories in this format of the game. It's often, you know, margins. Yeah, 10, 15, 20 tops. Yeah.

Yeah. Otherwise, you've just had a shocking day and it wouldn't matter who you ran out. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio. 5 Live. If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From

the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and

all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Just seems to me just discussing it all and listening to you, Hados, is that like sort of depth and sort of the choosing of the talent for the right conditions is a bit of an issue at the moment, the muddling of approach and tactics. There's been sort of, you know, a lot discussed about Indian investment into the Big Bash and Australian cricket in much the same way as they've invested in the 100 in England.

And do you think that will help in any way in terms of broadening the talent pool or helping to identify who the next big stars for Australia can be that can influence D20 tournaments in different conditions? Because I think a lot of teams struggle when they go away from home and play in conditions like this is outside of the Asian subcontinent. But other than that, you know, when you're traveling to different parts of the world, you often lose. There's so many teams like India who found a way to be consistently successful overseas. And even they lose a lot of games as well when they're traveling. So what do you think the role of that investment could be if India does invest into the Big Bash and sort of make it a privatized thing, a bit like the 100 in England? And do you think that would be a good thing for Australian cricket?

That's a really tricky question to answer. In the context of intellectual property, there is, and has been this way for quite a long time, that there has been a shift in the movement of intellectual property, which I would call the product of Australian cricket. Now, overseas, we have Justin Langer that's coaching LSG, we have Ricky Ponting that's coaching the Punjab Kings. We have Tom Moody, that's head of high performance of LSG as well. We've got players that play across all countries, all codes,

that are franchise-driven alternatives to the cut and thrust of cricket in our country, and that is that our product can and will be retained by Cricket Australia. And so we're bleeding, and we're almost, I feel, bleeding out in many ways because we've had three decades of extraordinary talent that's come to our shores and stayed on our shores and remains in our game. And where we're really getting challenged is at the game development side of it, and I'll give you a prime example,

Jake Fraser McGirk. Oh, yeah, whatever happened to him? We were all really excited by him. Yes. So that's exactly what can't happen. You know, so there's a talent that has got the potential to play 70, 80, 90 tests. There's a talent that is homegrown, that has got hands that are magnificent,

that's a beautiful athlete, got grace and form, you know, something that we saw beautifully last night, didn't we, from the Shrelankan team. You know, they just move so beautifully across the surface, and that's such a key asset. It's almost a God-given asset as opposed to a trained asset. Like, we'll give you a great example there. Jamaica, it looks like everyone can run about 9.8 meters a second, let alone, let alone that in terms of their 100 metre efforts as well. So what I'm really saying is that

I just feel like at the moment cricket Australia need to have a look at their schedule and they need to be able to manage their number one and primary resource, which is cricket talent, and find a way to just be a little more insular, a little more controlled and a little more destined and built towards the purpose of the Australian cricket team. So what has happened to Jake Fraser McGirk?

Well, I mean, he's a franchise. player he plays across the world but he's unfortunately he's been you know in that system of franchise cricket which I believe it's just kind of pigeon hold him into one role and that's a power hitter you know so

last night we saw a lot of great hitting I'm not going to say we didn't we did but what we did see is some bloke and his name was but the Masunker that batted and was not out under it and then we saw another guy Kussar Mendez who manipulated strike and involved himself in a partnership,

which didn't allow Australia to get back into the game at any stage. Australia have taken four wickets in the last two games. Four wickets. I mean, those two guys you just mentioned, they're all format players, aren't they? You know, we hear a lot about how... Yeah, and shock me, right? They've got cricket sense and sensibility,

and that's my point. Like, I think if you lose control of your youth, and they've got money and they've got the destiny, of franchise-based cricket, I would absolutely say, get it, got it, knock yourself out. But unfortunately, what we're looking forward as an Australian cricket team and unit is to have a lot more say in how it is and where it is that you manage your resources and grow your game. Because if you become a one-dimensional player, then you're not going to have a role in our

ODI sides. You definitely need to be nowhere near the test side. And I would question whether your longevity in the short format of the game is noteworthy enough to be retained. I mean, that's what's happened to Jake Brose. Just before I come to you, I think it's an interesting contrast isn't with Harry Brooke, who could so easily have been and end up that kind of player. Yeah. We all get frustrated by the way in England.

We get frustrated by the way he gets out in test matches. But he's still playing test matches. He's still captaining 50 over cricket, still playing T20 cricket, and actually not playing IPL, which is interesting. intriguing. I guess a board like the ECB is able to provide enough of a financial incentive for him to be able to do that. And so too as cricket Australia. I mean, there's only three countries that could really do that. You know, and we're one of them. And we're blessed to have that opportunity. And that's my point. It's not, it's a restriction of trade to a degree. There's no doubt about it. It just really depends on where your priorities are and where you want to sit within the world game. I mean, everyone, for example, Mitch Stark took a long time to go to the IPL. You know, but everyone will remember Mitch Stark in the, it. in the next 100 years he'll be known. It's a leading left-arm basketball or intest cricket. Ships,

some past Yves him across. And look, is that, but is that something that a modern player desires? Because, you know, to me, you can have another boat, you can have another house, you can have another wellness resort that is coming up in the next couple of days.

There's a bit of a side story, sorry, folks, on that one, which we won't go into it right now. But it's, you know, you can have all this stuff, but the reality is, you know, it's what, and this is what I love about the game, it's heart that matters. You know, when I think of the great players of all time, and you just mentioned one right there, you know,

and Wazi Akram, he's got a great big heart, you know, he was a wonderful athlete. He had incredible skills which he acquired over time, and he played across formats and utilize those formats to develop all of his game. And with the T20 game now, it's the hands in the ruck in many ways because the skill sets required to be competitive in T20 cricket. They are not as definite as what you need in the middle format, the ODI cricket,

and they also know where near what you need in test cricket. And it's almost to your point before, it's almost like you need to go. If you're a young cricket and anyone listening right now to me, I'm telling you, if you can be a long-format cricketer, you'll be an amazing short-format cricketer as well because the transference of skills and the transference of technique involved in the short formats. And I'm going straight away to a guy like Virac Colley,

who still amasses extraordinary numbers of runs in T20 cricket. But he is an amazing test cricketer. And there are hundreds of cases like that, in my opinion. Across all nations, you could just reel them off. maybe even the universe boss is another great example right yes Chris Gale you know he's a 300 club he lets us all know about it by the hats he wears but the reality is you know due respect

he is an all-format game but he's also a very good desk cricketer so youngsters get out there in the nets and learn and listen about technique in the game because it will not do you any harm you will develop power as you grow you will amass this great body position that's required if you want to be a short format cricketer and that's going to take time and unfortunately I think our kids our fans and and certainly

the game maybe isn't giving enough credit you know to to exactly those acquisition of skills is there a role that sort of governance and administrations have to take in this as well because I think there's this narrative that comes out about players and like you're just playing how much money do you need? How many leagues do you want to go and play in? But is there's more that a board like cricket Australia needs to be doing to incentivise playing for Australia, overtaking leagues, league contracts, lucrative league contracts? Obviously players have a limited shelf life. They might think pragmatically and think, okay, you know what, let me go and maximize my earning potential. You mentioned Jake Brazen-Meggerke. He last played for Australia in July, last year,

in July 2025 against the West Indies in that win in Kingston. He's still only 20, three years of age. So, you know, there's plenty of opportunity for Jake Brazier. We've got to get back in the mix. But up until now, he's only played 8 T20 internationals for Australia. You know, he wasn't given an opportunity after that. He's been picked up in the IPL by the Delhi Capitals and played for them. Sorry, yes, the Delhi Capitals. He's also played for the Dubai Capitals in the ILT20. And this year he's been picked up in the PSL as well for the first time. And he plays an MLC as well. So Major League for the San Francisco Unicorns. there's a few team names there.

So how many franchises is that in total? Well, in his short career so far, he's represented four so far. But he's got long-term contracts with him, and he's got a fifth coming this year with the PSL. Now, my question to you is Hades, is that, you're saying, and quite rightly, you know, go out there, learn the game, play the longest format that will translate to the shortest format, and skills are transferable, it all makes sense, of course it does.

but does the board at that point not have to think about how do we incentivize these players? Because there's riches on offer, there's acceptance on offer, there's opportunity on offer, and yet you end up prioritising one style of playing cricket because you want to be effective in these leagues and things like that. A lot of these leagues prepare very flat pitches because they know what broadcasters, advertisers want, is lots of runs, lots of fours and sixes. So how do you tell that player that has the ability, like a Jake Brace and Lickertrk, you know what, leave that behind, come back to cricket Australia,

we're going to teach you how to play proper cricket across the formats and turn you into a star and let you do something for your country. You know, we just touched on the investment a little bit earlier that might come from India. I don't know if that reinforces the system of like prioritising franchise cricket or it actually feeds Australia with, you know,

more infrastructure or more stability or more money to offer players in their central contracts. But sort of what's your take on the role that cricket Australia and other boards around the world have to play in holding onto their players? My father was a very simple man He was a peanut farmer And we lived out in the bush

About seven kilometres away from any other household So it was a strong bike ride Before I get anywhere near a backyard game of cricket At my neighbours But he always said to me one thing Son never ask a question Answer a question with a question But if you can allow me a moment

Whilst you've got your laptop open And we can get the actual numbers Can you just go to Shubman Gill's profile And just tell our audience how many franchise clubs he's played for? I can't. It's not a very long list. He's played for two teams,

both of them in the IPL, Gujarat Titans and Gold Cat the Nightriders. I rest my case. Our audience will work out what my point is very quickly. It's a, look, cricket is a warfare. You can fraternise with the enemy as much as you like, but at the end of the day, your resources need to be, you know, enclosed behind our,

enemy lines. And the reality is we have a damn lot of resources in the Australian cricket team. And the setup. I mean, it was the apple of the eye for three or four decades. And yet we are bleeding that intellectual property because it's just allowing us the opportunity to not engage within great minds. Like I mentioned a few before in Ricky Ponting, Justin Langer came and he was seen off, you know,

because allegedly it was a little grumpy and a bit too hard on the players. Yeah, I mean, the thing is learning's not easy. In fact, learning's damn hard. And so too has changed, you know. So there's very, you know, it mounts a compelling case that I think that it's just trying to just harness our resources a little bit, you know, within nations like England and Australia that have, you know, such enormously proud cricket cultures and traditions. You know, we've seen one of them come and go underwhelmingly this summer. You know, the Ashes was as big a build-up as what we saw the Pakistan and Indian game the other night, and it was equally as dissatisfying.

You know, because the quality and the standard of the game is just not allowing us to really enjoy the benefits, the fruits of our labour as cricketing communities. There might have been a slightly different thing at work there. They might not because, you know, England had got themselves, a bunch of players that are committed to test cricket. You look at someone like Jamie Smith, and I've... seen a lot of him in county cricket and he's exactly the kind of guy who could have ended up certainly not being a test we can keep he didn't we can keep in domestic cricket hardly at all and he does has done it but that's not his primary focus he could easily have been a jake

phraser mcirk and go out and be a gun for hire uh they've actually got sort of settled test team like the duck it crawley it's the manner in which they've chosen to play and that seems to have come from coaching and selection at the top and saying right this is how we're going to beat Australia in test cricket. But by most part, the ECB has managed to hold on to a core of its players that it wants to play in these formats. To me, the criticism of the way the England team has been going at the moment might be the planning and the execution of what it is that they're trying to do.

Because the personnel, I don't think too many people, look, in England there'll be a perennial argument about Zach Crawley. Of course there will, because the guy has averaged 31 and a half for his entire life. averages below Adil Rashid with the bat. He's only got two more first class hundreds than Adil Rashid. Sorry, am I getting something off my chest? But generally speaking,

that is a choice that has been made and those players have been held together. The problem that South Africa have had and the West Indies have had, New Zealand have had, are problems that Australia and England shouldn't have because their players have to kind of be allowed to roam free

and do what they do. But you're saying that Australia have got the resources, They've got the culture to be able to say, you come in, you be part of this cricket Australia team, this setup. Then you shouldn't need to go to the S-820. I mean, I was kind of staggered. And maybe you can give me an insight into this. A couple of years ago, wasn't it? When quite a lot of players were leaving the Big Bash before it was over to go and join the S-A-20 because there was an overlap.

There is still, yeah, isn't it? Right. And I'm not aware of that. Yeah, right. Someone like Chris Lynn, who's synonymous with the Big Bash. you know? Yeah. And also the overseas players who would be there for the group phase

or near to the end of the group phase and suddenly going. And so actually the end of the Big Bash was all domestic players, some of them, you know, not even all of the best ones of that. But surely that's a contractual issue, right? Yeah. It's something that you'd have to, we obviously don't know this, but it should be all squared away, you know, that those players, international and domestic players

prioritize their own tournaments, just like India are doing very smartly. Exactly. And they're reaping the benefits of it as well. I mean, they have so many talented cricketers that just, I mean, can you imagine, I'll give you one great name, Shubman Gill.

Would there be a side across this World Cup that wouldn't have him as their opening batter? Well, it depends if he's got any Italian heritage. Canada and certainly haven't, but it's full. If his wife's grandfather was Italian, as we discover with JJ Smuts, that's how we qualified. Haydos, thank you so much for joining us.

It's been scintillating hearing your views on Australian cricket and for our ABC listeners at home. Look, it's not all gloom and doom. With a better luck, you know, Australia will come back, fighting a new generation will come through. Thank you to Hadoos. Thanks to Artif. Five live sports

The Six Nations Rugby's greatest championship What a day of the Six Nations it's been Live commentary of every match on BBC Sounds I don't think he has to try Just a stunning school One of the all-time great tries The Rugby Unweekly podcast will be daily

Throughout the tournament With all the best insight and analysis And the biggest names in the game The Six Nations Listen on BBC Sounds If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet. I would smash that button with my forehead.

From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. You know.