Test Match Special - Moeen Ali on Test retirement

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

England all-rounder Moeen Ali joins TMS commentator Aatif Nawaz to discuss his retirement from Tests. Moeen explains his decision, goes through the highlights of his Test career and chats about the challenges of playing all formats in Covid times. Moeen also discusses his love of boxing and how Call of Duty helped him cope with quarantine.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm Ardivnawast and welcome to a bonus test match special podcast. This week, England all round of Moeen Ali announced his retirement from test cricket. Mouin played 64 games since making his debut in 2014.

He took 195 test wickets and scored five test centuries. He's ranked only behind Derek Underwood and Graham Swan in the number of test wickets taken by a spinner. And in 2017, it became the fifth fastest in terms of matches to achieve the double of 2,000 test runs and 100. testing wickets. Yet has Mowen really received the praise he's deserved for that recorded tests? Well, I've been speaking to Mowing from the UAE where he's currently playing for the Chen I Shepakink and the IPL. Moin, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Not too bad. Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah, well, I'm well. I've got to be honest, I was slightly taken a

back when I heard about your retirement? I mean, is this something you've been thinking about for a long time? And, you know, forgive me for asking it. I know you've talked about this a long recently, but was there something that was kind of bubbling away at the back of your mind or did something trigger it? Like, give us a little insight into what made you make that decision. Yeah, I think it's been a bubbling over for a bit of time, not too long to make with you. I mean, I was still keen to play and do well and stuff like that.

But I just, I think the break between 2019 when I got dropped to when I played recently, India, when I had three games, I think it was too long toance with you. And I think my mindset had changed a bit. And I just find it really difficult to really focus on while playing the red ball. I found it really long. It's a great, obviously, a format of the game when you're in it. I just find it very difficult to really get into it. And it's a shame.

but I feel like I'm very content, I'm very happy with my decision and happy with how things went in the end. I mean, there were some real good times and some real bad times, but that's part of the game. It's interesting because you, obviously, you know, every to English cricketer

I've ever spoken to has nothing but amazing things to say about you, not just as a person, but as a cricketer, someone who's quite senior and someone who's kind of revered in that dressing room. You were made wise captain as well, you know, not too long ago. did that have any bearing on your decision? Did you feel more pressure as vice capital?

Did it have no bearing whatsoever? No, no bearing. I think obviously to be given the vice captaincy was great, and it was a huge honour and things like that. But it wasn't the environment in the dressing room, et cetera, and the way the guys are, that wasn't the issue at all. I always loved that. And that's actually the one thing that really kept me going.

It was just the actual cricket. on the field, I find very difficult towards the back end, especially in my last few games. So, yeah, I mean, the vice captain, and, you know, Joe Rue always asked me a lot more towards, in the last few, I think, to make me feel more involved as well in the side. And I just couldn't do it to, well, I found it a struggle. And so, yeah, they didn't really have that much of a bearing on it.

I imagine it's quite challenging because, you know, again, lots of journalists have talked about, the sand players, but, you know, I mean, objectively, you weren't really given the best chance to settle. I mean, some people have read it that way. I mean, you played in, it's been mentioned a lot of times, but you've batted in every position from one down to nine in that England side. Is that a fair assessment, or were you kind of always quite happy to go with whatever that coach is or that captain's strategy was? It is a difficult one, because at the time, when I was playing, it's like, yeah, you're just, you're almost scoring with it. You're in the team and you're playing,

you don't mind where you're batting and all that kind of stuff. But when I look back at it now, I think when I'm mean by when there's a quote saying I was wasted but in a good way. And what I mean by that is I was so up and down the other. It's hard to be stable and have a spot in your, have your spot in the team. But then I was playing most of the time because of the balance of the team or, you know, I played a lot more games than I thought I was going to play. there were times when I wasn't bowling well

and I was batting well and when I wasn't batting well I was bowling well so being up and on the order and being a sort of a bit of versatile sort of player you do play a lot more than in the end and that's what I mean by in a good way so I ended up playing quite a bit but then I wasn't really

true to my sort of batting and if I had a spot maybe I could have batted better than for example I feel like I would have scored a lot more runs if you were if you were batting at number three for england and that was your spot like regularly do you think you'd still be playing test cricket now maybe I mean if I was doing well of course

probably would have done because I love batting and the one thing I do I do miss batting and when I'm batting at eight and nine and then I'm batting seven in the wonder stuff I do miss that and I miss the art of batting and I feel like I just moved away from that I was batting lower down I didn't believe that I had the opportunities to score big

or as big as I would have liked, etc. But then if I batted three and I didn't score for a few games, I probably would have been dropped, and that's what I mean by in a good way. So, you know, it does make up and it's not a complaint. There's not a complaint whatsoever. I really enjoyed it. But it's just how it is, yeah.

Do you think the last couple of years with the pandemic and, you know, the COVID era, for lack of it, for a better term. Do you think it's made players generally more introspective and just reflecting about what's important to them outside of cricket as well? I think so. I think it made players, not just cricketers, I think all sports people and all people in walks of life, I think it makes them realise how things can change quickly and how things can end so quick

and it just takes like a pandemic. You never thought three, four years ago that there'd be a pandemic that stuff literally the whole world and everything they do so and these things are now with this pandemic i think it just makes a crick to realize that there's um you spend a lot more time away from home there's quarantining there's isolating and it's it's very difficult and um you spend end up spending a lot more time away from your family you're in a hotel room all the time and mentally it's not easy actually uh it's very difficult and even playing the white ball stuff around the world now like we're playing the second half of the IPL right now and it feels like you're doing two tours almost

you're doing one in India you come back and you've got to go back to finish it off and it's not just the IPL I think it's happening everywhere so things are slowly gets better but yeah it is very difficult and you mentioned that time away from family as well I mean a lot of people have been talking about the ashes and you know these restrictions we're not completely sure what they're going to be but it seems like it's going to be quite heavy was that at all a factor in your decision. It wasn't a factor in terms of retiring, but it was something that would have been very difficult. I don't think I would have personally, I don't think if I was still retired, I don't think I would have gone because 14 days is a long time. I did six days here in a lovely

room with the balcony and stuff and 14 days. And I struggle with that. So 14 days would have been very difficult. And again, it depends if your family can come over. And there's obviously a few issues I need to be resolved, but it depends on what it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if guys pull out because of that. I mean, people have been talking about the retirement since it happened and, you know, I saw a lot of messages. I saw a lot of really inspiring, you know, just messages suggesting how inspirational you've been myself included, you know, like just as an Asian Muslim cricketer in the England team on that platform, just been really, really inspiring. Generally in the cricketing landscape, do you feel like you've been appreciated

for your test cricket specifically, as much as you should be? I think so. I think with the messages I got to run through you, and I'm not on social media anything, so I don't really know what's going on, but the messages I received directly from people who I've not spoken to, either speak to regularly or I haven't even spoken to, or people that I didn't even know had my number, or they must have got my number of somebody who was amazing and it was very overwhelming and yeah

it was amazing to and that made me feel like a little bit appreciated I guess and it was just nice to get received some lovely messages about and different types of people like proud of your career

etc some were like proud of what you've achieved in the community and that's the nice thing I think for me is that hopefully I've made some sort of difference even if it's a tiny one or made it easier in somebody else's pathway in the future that'd be amazing for me more than the wickets or the runs or whatever it is i hope uh and one thing i hope is i make people smile when i've played and enjoy watching me play and are proud in that way yeah you absolutely should be i think nobody's going to dispute that

you played some cracking innings and things that will remember for a long time at bold some pretty incredible spells uh but the biggest bombshell you just gave me there is you're not on social media. I used to be, and I just came off it in about three years ago, three, four years ago. Well, now you're retired. You can join TikTok and things like that, right? I don't think it'll be that entertaining to be honest with you. Yeah, I mean, it's nice that you've managed to keep yourself away from,

because sometimes players find it quite difficult. I mean, does that happen in the dressing room? Did you notice a lot of players, like, they'll have something significant, like maybe drop a catch or have a difficult session, and then just kind of be on their phones immediately looking at. what's happening or what the response has been like that kind of direct effect on your mental health. Have you registered that at all? I think it can happen.

I mean, my personal experience is when I wasn't playing so well, I found when I was at my best, I wasn't looking at no social media in terms of what people would say, etc. But then when I wasn't playing well, I remember getting sucked into it and reading up about more, about how I was doing and stuff like that. And that made me come off social media. And it was a time where I thought, well, I don't need this. I need to just focus and things like that and do the right things. It doesn't matter what people think as long as I'm enjoying my cricket and all that kind of stuff.

And it just, yeah, I guess it can happen to players. Definitely can happen to players and it can affect them. Yeah, it can. Well, let's talk about something a bit more positive. I mean, you've had a tremendous test career. And, you know, as you say, you've got to do loads of different things. in test cricket just because of the way

you've been used what's the sort of standout moment for you in your test career like your absolute fondest moment I think again the hat trick at the Oval

against South Africa was by far I've never ever had a feeling like that on the cricket field I've never had a hat trick so to do it in a test match

to win the game on the final day was amazing yeah I mean the game was pretty much won already but then to finish up a game with a hat trick was great

He's on a hat trick And lots of close in-fielders They're even Alice of Cook's going in close by the look of it So No longer captain, is he? No, but also deep big wicket It's a bit bizarre in case Morkle goes for a slog Throw it up Mowen, come on

Here comes the hat trick then Mouin, round the wicket, bowls to Morkle Is it on the pad, a peel for leg before wicket They really want this And the umpire's saying no And they're all making the review sign All of them are they here? the review sign there.

Well, I wonder, they're all congratulating Moeim. The umpire's given it not out. I thought it looked, well, leg stump at best, shall we say. I was going to say, did it hold enough? It's a fair... It completely defeated him, let's be honest. He could almost say, did he really try and hit it? I'll tell you what.

You can go to Alper edge. Well, he hasn't edged it, so there's no ultra-edge on this, I'm sure of that. I think this could be out. I think Moeen... The bat and the bowl, and you can... Inside of middle and leg, are you going to say? Here we go. Is this hitting?

Do we get a red flag? We're watching. We do. Bowie has taken a hat trick and he's won the match for England. What a finish. What a finish. And they're jumping around. They're saying, well done.

Wow. What drama. England win by 239 runs coming back from that dreadful performance of last week. now it's South Africa's turn to have got some work to do but for now it says handshakes a delighted mowing

he really is his faces split from ear to ear by an enormous smile wow a hat trick via technology to win the game terrific

I just remember the guys with me were celebrating there was an umpire gave a hotel review given out and yeah it was amazing I absolutely loved that So that was the best by a mile. But I had a couple of good, there was an innings at Old Trafford,

which I really enjoyed against South Africa in the same year, actually. So yeah, it was really nice. I really enjoyed it. When you have good days in test cricket, it's a far better feeling than anything else. Absolutely. I was in the crowd when you got a hat trick against South Africa, and I was just in the crowd.

I wasn't there for TMS or any kind of broadcasting. I can tell you, it's the most English. I've ever felt in my life because, you know, the way the crowd exploded and it was so unified, you know, it was this really unified feeling of like, yes, you know, everyone and, you know, everybody was backing. It was just a beautiful moment. And yeah, I mean, I reflect on it. I'm so glad you picked it. It's a lovely moment. It's sometimes people sort of refer to us of England's second spinner or, you know, the second spinner on the side with, you know, whether it's Ardil Rashid or anybody else who's playing. alongside you in the games but I mean you've kind of done a great job as the main spinner at times you're finishing your test career with 195 wickets and do you kind of feel like sometimes I was the main spin a lot of my career I was the main spinner yeah yeah and I think the wickets is something I'll be quite proud of because it's something I never expected at all and to end up being the main spinner was was great and I think getting wickets

It's getting good wickers, getting like the best players in the world. That was something I'm really proud of because I feel my best ball was good enough for the best batters. And that's a nice feeling. I wasn't a bowler who could contain or go at two and over a lot of the time. It wasn't my mindset to try and go at two and over. I just couldn't do it. It wasn't, I'm not that type of bowler or somebody who always tried to bowl, try to spin the ball a lot. And just try to do everything maximum with the ball.

and I didn't know. So, like, for example, with the batting for I wasn't playing well, I knew why I wasn't playing well a lot of the time. And I knew technically or mentally, with the bowling, it was, unless I had saccline and jeets in the end with me, I didn't have a clue why I was a bowling while. It was just, you know, it's my second string. So, to all those wickets, yeah, amazing.

And I'm really happy with that. Is there any one wicket that stands out the most that you kind of replay in your mind all the time, apart from the hat trick? anyone battered that you're really pleased that you got out yeah I mean there's loads about I feel like I'm pleased I got

I think Donie was quite hard to bowl it and I got him out it wasn't a great wiki he was caught midwiki he came down trying to whack it but I was quite pleased with that one and Coley have got out a few times which I'm happy with this all but then like I go through a lot of the teams that's good players

like I'm quite happy with who I got out yeah you mentioned a couple of those Indian players and obviously you mentioned Mahandra Singh Doni, you're at Chennai Superkings now, and you know, you've played for them for a while now, and they tend to keep you in a very consistent position. They tend to use you in a very, you know, constant way. They've made up their mind, this is how we want to use Moin Ali. Do you prefer that? Just knowing exactly what your role is for a team, or do you like the flexibility that you got with England, let's call it flexibility? I love the way I'm being used at the moment here with Chennai because one, like it's a team that you know you're going to get running and if you get a chance you're going to play a few games the team is pretty set generally over the last few years

I've just come in giving a role to try and be positive and aggressive up top at number three and about their domestically and it's something that I know quite well so I think in terms of being consistent and for a team it's definitely much better for me I feel like I've played quite well for them so far without scoring massive runs I've scored quickly for them and something that they wanted me to do

obviously I would love to score more and score big but that will happen I think and I do prefer it obviously but then being flexible side of things it's always quite exciting because you don't know what's going to come and what's going to happen and yeah and the England team for example have some amazing players and world-class players and guys have been in the world so

if I'm ever going to bat the other than for England in T-20s I just got to wait my turn a little bit I guess. Well we'll talk a bit more about the IPL in a second but I mean just to tie a bow on the test cricket stuff I mean is there anything you do differently looking back on your test

career you look back at your 60 plus test matches you know just shy of 3,000 runs just shy of 200 wickets like you know when you look back at it all the big wickets, the Coley's, the Tonys, the Atrix, the South Africa's, all of it, is it anything you would do differently? I think the one thing I would probably do is when I was batting at 8 for a while,

like regularly I was quite, I was 8 number for a bit, and I think I would, I concentrated a lot more on my bowling in terms of my practice and stuff. I think I would have, I wish I just had a bit more on my batting still where I concentrated I think initially I was good because obviously batting 8 was quite new and stuff and then over time I was like well I'm in the team as a bowler here really so let's concentrate more bowling and stuff like that

so I wish I just concentrated a bit more on my batting for that little period maybe for a couple of years which was almost and then I did after but yeah that's the only thing literally nothing else I love my time and I enjoyed it. Nothing cricketing wise nothing off the field on the field

really also i mean like is there any play i mean obviously you're still playing whiteball cricket and you know you're probably your player in an england shirt many many more times we hope but i mean is any player that you'll miss hanging out with any players that you really really love playing test cricket with specifically yeah no there's many i think um i'll miss uh test cricket with i'm very fortunate to have played with alison cook who's england's leader in scorer joe root who's going to be with England's best player ever. Ian Bell, it was one of my favourite players throughout his career.

I still love watching it from a young age. And obviously, Brody and Jimmy were amazing to play with two of England's best bowlers. They were really good with me. Honestly, they were amazing with me all the time. And just Butler, and all of them, too, I said, Just Butler, Woody, everyone, they're all really good with me. I love playing with them. And I just hope that they enjoy playing with me as all.

And the messages they sent me was really nice. So, yeah, them, the guys, I will miss it. I will miss the buzz of it, definitely. Yeah, so I've seen loads of tributes from so many players. So Chris Vogue's a really touching thing up about you on his Instagram. That's why I tell you because you're not on social media, so you need to know, right? Because sometimes people do this publicly and you'll just miss it if they don't text you directly. Yeah, no, it's true.

No, it's true. I didn't even know. Woxi is unknown since we were 12, 13. We played a Warwickshire and stuff together. Legend guy, I really enjoy it. Let's talk a little bit about the IPR. I mean, you can be a bit more focused on sort of white ball cricket now. Is that useful in the modern day? I mean, just how difficult is it playing three formats? You know, not even just in a time of a pandemic, but just generally. It's tough, right? I mean, we see the critique on players like Varac Koli, Barbara Ars and these players who play all three formats and are just kind of relentlessly going and going and going

and going. Whereas we see someone like Jimmy Anderson or even at Timal Mills who's had a career resurgence recently by focusing on T20 cricket, does focusing on one format or just one, you know, either red or white ball cricket, do you think it prolongs your career? Is this the way you think cricket's going to go? I think so. I think with a pandemic, I think it's definitely, I think a lot of players will do that.

In my own opinion, I think before the pandemic, it was difficult to play all three formats, but you loved it because in all three formats for England, you're representing England and traveling and all that kind of stuff. But then after a while, like Vera has said and a few other people have said, it is with the amount of cricket there is now compared to there was maybe even four years ago, it is difficult because you also want to play the leagues in the world that everyone's playing and stuff like that. So I think with the pandemic, I think it's going to be a lot harder. I think I won't be surprised because there's a lot more people just really going one way or the other. I think for Jimmy,

for example, it's definitely prolonged his career and he's playing at 39 now and Brody. Brody's actually not that old. But yeah, I think it's going to prolong his career as well. So yeah, I think it's the way people will go eventually with the pandemic as all with so much isolating. And then almost two different tours as you saw with India and England where you had the two series at the same time so they have two different teams almost there so it'd be interesting actually in the next couple years how things go

do you think there's too much cricket I think there's yeah I think it's squeezed in too much in my own opinion I think it's not good for the people's mental the thing is the players they obviously love playing for their country as much as they and stuff but I think players also want to play in the IPLs and the PSLs

because it's you get to pay with the players who you probably would never interact with before and the cricket's gray and obviously the money's good in that as well so I think it's yeah I think I think I think you're right I think all go that way and it's getting I mean all indications are it's going to get busier before it gets quiet. I mean, next year, there's going to be another two teams in the IPL added. So we're expecting a slightly longer season. There's the Commonwealth Games next year as well. You know, we've got a hundred packed into the calendar. You know, we've got, you know, there's so much possible. As a cricket fan, Moin, I've got to tell you, it's great fun because I know that

every day, there's got to watch. There's something to watch. And, you know, that's all I want to watch. I'm not interested in it. And we're learning a new sport at this point. But as a player, Is it somewhat daunting because just say, like you say, you have to make those choices. Like you want to play in the IPLs, the PSLs, but you want to play test cricket, you want to represent your country, but you want to play in these new competitions like 100. You want to play for your county in T20 Blast. Like, is it just as a player? Is it just too much sometimes?

Like, I can't be pulled in all these directions. It just creates play out. I think you have to, at the moment, if you're in a position, you're going to have to pick and choose a little bit on which ones you play, which I don't play. for example um and it depends on the quality that you want to play out as well i think the hundred is amazing and the hundred is really good because it's actually not that long and it's you don't play that many games it's eight games i think it is so i think it's um like the big bash for me it's it's very long it's um it's over a couple of months and i know they're trying to shorten it's lots of games and all that kind of stuff and i just feel like the shorter the

bit and if they really want the best players to come over and play that i think you keep it short and sweet almost because there is a love international cricket there's a love test cricket that people also want to still play so yeah it's great to be involved in all these but I think at the moment you've got to pick and choose a little bit

do you like playing in the IPL I mean again I'm sure I know the answer to this already but do you like being over there in the IPL how is it what is it about the IPL aside from like on the pitch that makes it and obviously the money that makes it so exciting for players. I mean, obviously, I know you've got access to all these great players to play against and to, you know, challenge yourself against the best in the world, except for Pakistan, you know,

and you've got a chance to, you know, play in front of these huge crowds outside of a pandemic. You know, what's the appeal? Do you feel additionally looked after? Do you feel like it's a case of, you know, teams show you more love or more affection? I mean, what is the appeal of it outside of the cricket itself? I think IPR just feels massive. It just feels like a big deal. I mean, it's a great competition. First of all, the standards obviously very high with some amazing players, etc. Amazing local Indian players as well. And you get looked after really well by the franchise. Everything is done professionally and more. And yeah, I think it's the buzz around it. And you feel like you want to be part. part of the IPL, it is, in my opinion, the best league out there after international cricket, I think IPL is right out there. The standards, every game is tough, every game is something on it almost, and yeah, it's huge

and it's just great to be part of, and I think you can learn, I think that it's the learning, you can learn so much here with the players. I've been very lucky I've played with AV, Vera, in IPL, and now with MS. and Jadaja, Bravo, and these guys. It's amazing, like, as a player to be around and learning and playing with them and knowing what they're thinking and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's all that and more,

it's something that you don't really get to experience anywhere else at the moment. And it is very unique. It is very unique, I have to say. Beyond the IPL, and, you know, now that we've kind of closed the chapter on test cricket, I mean, what do you see in your future? There's a T20 World Cup.

coming up, you know, and there'll be another one next year as well. So there's a lot of work to do in that England show for you, obviously, but what would you like to achieve? Like, what else would you like to do in the world of cricket having complete, I'm going to say, a successful test career? I would like to, with the cricket wise, I would have, with the teams I'm going to play for, hopefully I want to win trophies and go around, trying to win as much as I can. England is massive with the World Cup, obviously, around the corner now. Another World Cup after that, and then there's a 50-over World Cup, I think, after that.

So they're the things I'm really looking forward to if I can really stay fit and keep the body working well and playing well, then I would love to be involved in all that. I play as long as I can with the Whiteball stuff and really be a whiteball specialist out there. And then after that, I think I'd love to coach. I'd love to stay in the game and start coaching. and yeah, that's something I feel like I can give my experience back to younger players and hopefully it will keep me in the game and keep me busy. I feel like I've got decent enough knowledge.

I've been coached by good coaches in the past where I've learned massively from. So, yeah, I think that would be one who I'd try and go to. So no daytime talk shows or acting career or anything like that just yet. No, it's not for me. that's not my sort of thing. The daytime folks are, it's not my cup of tea, honestly.

Well, you know, I'll ask you again in a few years' time, who knows? I've got to ask, though. I mean, there's a lot of franchise cricket. There's a lot of England cricket, obviously. Our fans at Worcester are going to shift to you in a Worcestershire again, hopefully. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I think it's something that I want to do is play. Obviously, we've got the blast out of trying to win again with Worcester. and it's been a few years now where I have not played regularly forced and yeah I think I would like to go back and play there for a bit now as well yeah I'm sure I'm sure they'll be welcoming you with open arms and you know you'll have a little bit more time we know these test series can be really

draining particularly in the pandemic you know hotel rooms and quarantines and have you worked at how many days you've spent in quarantine in the last year and a half I haven't but I know I've done quite a lot we went to Sri Lankan India tour and there was the guys had been there for 30 days or 35 days I had done 27 days of quarantining that at that small period and then I came back I had to do another 10 days and all that I've done lots so yeah what do you have a good routine for like when you're in isolation and quarantine or is it just different every time is it just a case of flock watching like how do you get through it what do you do I played a love call of

at one point I have to say love just and I'm not a gamer I'm not even like I ended buying a PlayStation and I bought like a poker set and all that kind of headset

I'm not even a game and I just to kill a bit of time I do like I did a lot of reading and all that like there's enough time for that but then there was I just need to kill a few hours here and there in between just because time does go slow at times but I also use it as time to reflect

as well as I'm and ring people speak to people who I haven't probably spoken to in a very long time and things like that. So, yeah, it changes every time. But nowadays, I think with quarantines and stuff, unless you're going at the moment Australia or somewhere, everything's all six days, three days, four days, and all that kind of stuff. So it's not too bad at the moment. It's not too bad now.

Well, that's good to hear. And, you know, obviously now you get more family time as well. Is that something you're looking forward to spending a bit more time with your family? because, I mean, I'll tell you, I've definitely spoken to players who are kind of like, yeah, I'll hang out with a family now if I have to. I'm not everybody's super fond of their families as strange as to say, but I suspect you might be excited about spending time with yours. Yeah, yeah. I think having two kids, one boy who's eight, who's keen and keen and keen has mustered with cricket and all likes are very active. So, yeah, they keep me busy. It's been, I did quarantine. with them here for six days and it was hard work but it did so yeah um yeah no i'm looking forward to

that and spending obviously time with the wife and and kids is amazing and obviously spent more time my parents who sacrificed so much for me and um throughout their lives and i feel like they're getting older and stuff like that i'd love to spend more time with them as well you mentioned your parents your father was recently quoted as saying uh i don't think there'll be another moyn ali in 10 to 15 years What do you make of that statement? It's a big statement, in my opinion. My dad's a big fan of mine. But he's always been a big fan.

He's always backed me. And even when times when I was down in confidence or didn't believe I was going to play for England, before I play for England, he was the one guy who said, oh, you're going to play, don't worry, you're fine. So he's very optimistic. And, yeah, I've always loved his support and my mother.

yeah no family plays a massive role in cricket and in an individual that you've got that support for sure the rest of his quote was he showed the Asian community that if there's a will there's a way you know I mean we talk about this a lot and you know I think sometimes it's a bit unfair because just your cricket alone is quite substantial but are you aware of like your significance

like just not just to South Asians but also to the Afri-Arabian community, to just all minority communities in England who kind of look at you and think, well, Mo's doing it. We could do this. You know, are you aware of that role that you play? Yeah, I think I will be more aware of it

as more time goes on. And once I've, like, I had a bit more time to digest the whole thing. Because at the moment, when you're playing, you're just playing and you're trying to enjoy yourself. And that call my dad says, I think he's the guy behind. it really to be honest with it because he made me believe that you know if you can do it no matter

what you look like where you come from what religion you follow you can do it you just got to be good and work hard as you know and he gave me that sort of mindset and then he so he i would put it down to him really i just played and did well and um just played as much as i could for example but he's he's a real guy behind it um for me was about where he raised me was to do well work hard and be good with people and all that kind of stuff so um yeah i think later on i'll be more of it i think when in the future hopefully when when there's kids out there from any way any sort background say well mowing i'll leave us my inspiration or something like that that would be amazing then i would really know yeah that's the real reason that you play the people already do

that moyn i mean like there's a there's a mural for you uh in birmingham and they unveiled it to time it with the the hundred did you like the mural by the way Yeah, I did actually. It was good. I actually thought it was really good. My kids loved it and my family loved it. My nephews all go there and I know I loved it because I actually genuinely spent all my whole youth in that park and I spent so much time in that park. I think that's the real reason why I loved it. There's so many good memories and I learned so much there. The best memories I have as a childhood were in that park, sure. when you were a child did you ever think that you'd have the nickname the beard that's fared no that was no not at all

to even have a beard as a child I never thought of a beard I was completely different I don't think it's a reasonable nickname like the beard it's a nice beard do you ever think like why do you call it the beard that's fidd it's a well-kepted normal nice beard I think when he first came out

it's obviously used in cryptic in terms but uh it first started at worcester which um there was t-shirts with it and stuff like that i remember signing loads of beer this fruit and i'm like you know there's nothing to really fear yeah it takes a lot of conditioning and oils and stuff i imagine how many how many do you have some oil with you at the moment i do yeah i'm my wife putting put the oil on me last night yeah i uh you have read loads of incredible things about you know uh your life and there's all these powerful quotes and you know I don't know if you mean them to be powerful or if they just come across that way I mean do you sometimes feel that but I remember you said some at some point

you know the game of cricket saved your life it gave you a great life you know um you've seen a lot of sort of friends and acquaintance to slip into sort of gangs and drugs but cricket gave you that outlet to save your life and and you know I'm sure it did and you know we can talk about that as well but I'm just curious about every time you say something For you, it might be a throwaway comment for, you know, a lot of the world, it's like this is a very deep and meaningful thing that we need to reflect on. How does that feel? Is that something you enjoy or appreciate or is it something that's just a burden? No, I think there was times where if I would say something, I really meant it and I wanted people to try and look at it from that sort of point of view as well. But then there was also times where I would say something and it would be probably more impactful than I.

I thought it would be, yeah, I mean, it wasn't something, and it's not, it wasn't like a made-up, it wasn't never, I would never, it was something that would generally just come out and how I would genuinely mean a lot of the time. So it was never, I wouldn't say anything that I don't really mean. So yeah, it's amazing how actually impactful a person can be. And mine, I can look at myself as just in cricket and people that love cricket. I mean, as a child growing up, if Mohammed Ali said something and, you know, you'd hold it like it was gold and all these kind of things. Some of the call, even to this day, I sometimes YouTube him and listen to his quotes and his talks and all that kind of stuff.

And yes, it's massively impactful. I know you're a big boxing fan. Did you watch the AJ fight? What did you make of that? You know what? It's the first fight I didn't watch. You know what? Because I had to put a kiss to sleep.

And obviously, it was three hours I had it, and I fell asleep with the kids. But then I had so many messages and all that kind of stuff. I didn't, I haven't even watched the Picconagia last, so I didn't bother. But I heard the other guy was good. He was. He was very good. I mean, he was good enough to win, obviously, on points. But you, like, wait, hold on.

So you love boxing. You like, you enjoy watching it, but you skipped it to put your kids to bed. Yeah, so I had to put the kids to bed. So they don't like steep it without me, so I have to put them off right next to me. and half a less people. Hold on a second. You're Moin Ali. I feel like you'd get like a cup.

Somebody could have helped you out in that instant so you can watch the fight. Yeah, I know, but it's like, so now that I'm with them all the time and stuff, they're just so long with me at night. So it's like a routine now. I have to line the middle and they're lying aside. Do you reckon they've got a future in cricket? Yeah, I think my son definitely has. My daughter's only two, but she's starting to pick up a band,

starting to like do the action and all that kind of stuff. but my son, he's very keen and he's actually for his age quite good, yeah. You played a lot of cricket. I mean, is it a career you'd recommend to your kids? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I would definitely would.

I recommend to anyone I think it can teach you so much about life and, you know, you travel so much as all. Yeah, it is an amazing career. It's busy and full on, but it's good. It's a great career. You hesitate for a split second there. What are the some of the negatives about cricket that you'd warn your kids about if this is what they wanted to do?

I think, like, from my parents' point of view, sending my kid away for so long, it would be difficult. I know my parents had the same thing. Just something like that would be, it's more from my parents' point of view. You just spend a lot more time away from home and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, it teaches you a lot to re-answer to you. So, yeah, it is a good career.

Right. What's it going to take for me to get you back into test cricket? Like, what if I get on the phone, I guarantee the number three, you're the number four batting spot. You're guaranteed first, second change bowling, every single game. Will that do it? Do I need to get somebody to win on the old room?

Maybe if there's a limit on an over, so if there's 20 hours, and then the other team bats for 20 hours, and then the other team bats for 20 hours, and then you have to over chase it for 20 hours. Yeah, yeah. Five days of fielding is hard work, well. Five days of building is hard work, I'm sure.

Not that I've had to do it, but I'm sure it is hard work. Well, I wish you the very best, and white ball. The last thing I'd like to ask is, the World Cup's coming up, you know, it's huge. It's still the biggest T20 tournament in the world. Internationally, obviously, the IPL's huge, and we know that.

But who's winning the World Cup? I think we, I would obviously love to say they're going to win the World Cup, and I think we will be right up there. But I think there's three, four teams, in my opinion, maybe five teams. in the UAE in particular, it brings them into the whole reckoning a bit more, I think.

I mean, I think anybody, in the UAE, I think in T20 cricket, anybody can be anyone. But you can't look past West Indies or the champions and an amazing side with some amazing power hitting, etc. India's, India, India's always going to be up there. They have amazing players, and they just know how to play in this format. better than anyone or most.

Pakistan, you can never write off because, again, they also used to playing at the UAE. And I think the wickets after the IPL will be bringing a lot of teams into play. And there's New Zealand who've been amazing over the last two, three years in all formats.

And with some amazingly, very dangerous players. And then there's us as well. And I would say there's going to be one of them two, one of them five teams will win it. But it's a massive shab. because there's not many teams. But I think, yeah, it's going to be difficult World Cup, actually, for everybody.

So I would say England are favourites, I think. Moin Ali, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for the interview. It's amazing. Thanks. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, it's always a pleasure to speak to Moin Ali.

who, you know, sometimes I feel like I know everything about the guy, but every time I speak to him, I feel like I discover something new. I feel like I'm taking something different or unexpected away from that interview. I mean, people have spoken so much. So many cricket journalists have speculated about mowing, feeling insecure, mowing, feeling unhappy, but he seemed so unbelievably content when he reflects on his career and so positive when, you know, many would argue that he has plenty of reason not to. but it's brilliant to hear that he's he feels appreciated he feels like he's made a big contribution

and he'll be remembered the right way so i think we've done pretty well you know in my opinion the numbers will never give the full picture of what moen ali meant to english cricket yeah he took 190 five test wickets scored 500 scored just shy of 3,000 test runs and you know it looks fine it doesn't look incredible it looks fine those numbers but his contribution attribution to English cricket was so much bigger than numbers. I mean, there's a whole generation of people who will play the game just because of Moen Ali, and I think that's going to be his legacy. Well, really hope you enjoyed that chat with Moines Ali. I certainly did. Keep checking this stream for more podcasts, including No Bulls with Alex Hartley and Kate Cross, and also look out

on BBC Sounds for sports strangest crimes. Greg James telling the story of the Alan Stanford affair in The Man Who Stole Cricket. Thank you.