Test Match Special - No Balls: Hartley heads down under!

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Kate Cross and Alex Hartley chat all things Ashes after England's dramatic two-day defeat in the first Ashes Test in Perth. They wonder whether England's batters should have gone to play in England's tour match in Canberra, plus Crossy remembers her time in Perth on England debut at the WACA.

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The wobble ball again from Kate Cross, and that is such an important wicket for the Hatrick Ball. Oh, it's so wide. Hello, and welcome back to No Balls, the cricket podcast, with me, Alex Hartley, and you, Kate Cross. Crossy. Hello, we're on the other sides of the world to each other again I feel like I haven't seen you in ages

even though we've just come back off a holiday It's been a week, it's not even been a week I know, but it does feel like forever I think it's because we haven't managed to catch up yet Yeah, that is true, that's what the other side of the world And that bloody time difference does Not very good with the time zones No, we're terrible

I'm surprised we managed to get this pod like sorted so easily Yeah, I did say a time that I was available this week and you were both like that's like 11pm here so that's probably not going to happen yeah that's not going to be asleep by then I understand I understand how are you I'm okay thanks Al I'm a little bit poorly today but other than that I'm okay thank you

had a really lovely couple of weeks got the dreaded winter cold yeah I think I have I've got some sort of green stuff coming off my chest which is nice but I feel content with it because I've had a really nice couple of weeks and I haven't been ill so the nice things I had planned

so it feels fair that I'm poorly now is how I'm trying to frame it holidays on holidays on holidays how good been away we went away we had a little week

in Dubai didn't we and then you went off to Australia so yeah it's been really nice feel like I've had some nice sunshine and then it's now one degrees here in Manchester but you're going away again tomorrow I am doing the Dubai 7s

I'm really excited actually you've told me it's the best weekend it is amazing I'm like I've had friends that are going over over just for that and I'm like I'm so jealous but obviously not jealous from here in Australia for the ashes um but yeah you're going to have an amazing weekend like genuinely yeah I'm looking forward to it so yeah off to Dubai again tomorrow um yeah how are you how's the first week of

the ashes being weird wonderful entertaining exciting disappointing cold it's not been um you know I'm more surprised by the cold Yeah. Than anything. Yeah, it's been like a really cold breeze through Perth. And it's only been like 20 degrees. I know everyone at home is going to be like, it's four degrees here,

but it's actually like quite cold. That's unusual for Perth. But then, having said that, Perth normally a little bit later in the ashes timings, isn't it? It's normally the next test match, so it's normally had a bit more chance to heat up. That's true. That's true.

But we got here last Sunday. It's now Tuesday. It was meant to be day five of the test match today. Went down to the bar to pick up my food and was like, I'm still meant to be at work. Feels like we can't really avoid it, can we? Well, you can't have a cricket podcast and avoid that diabolical thing that happened. But we do have a cricket podcast and often forget to talk about cricket.

So we could. It wouldn't be unusual if no balls didn't discuss England losing in two days of the opening game of the test match, of the Ashes test. I think like Stokes described himself as being shell-shocked and I think that was a pretty good summary of it because we were all shell-shocked. Like it was almost like everyone was looking at you and going it's day two.

There's quite a lot of irony from my point of view that all these predictions have come out from past pros like it's the best chance England have got since 2010, 2010-11, best team that we're taking over. Not one person predicted that, the first game would be done on day two. It's wild, like absolutely wild. All the fans are absolutely loving it

because I see Stuart Broad's been wrong. Like, so wrong. Well, not wrong yet, but as in like worst team for 10 years, like he said it. And then England was so in charge of the test match. Like it was wild, wasn't it? And then just said, you can have the win. But were they so in charge?

Were they? Yes. No, because they're not like 600 ahead in a test match. They've not dominated it. They were all out for 170 in the first innings. Yes, they bowled well to bowl them out for less than that. But then to say that they were so in charge in my head would be like, you cannot lose this game.

They shouldn't have lost the game. They were 90 for one at lunch. And then we're bowled out at tea. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah. And then it was just like we lost four wickets within the space of like 12 minutes. It was in the space of three overs. and then Travis said

just but I'd like it was a So I've been probably less optimistic than all the predictions that I've seen I kind of didn't think England would win I know that's really easy to come out and say that now I didn't exactly have this bold prediction

before it all happened but I had this hope this tiny glimmer of hope which all England fans have of the morning that you wake up over here obviously so I didn't stay up to watch the test match and I had that tiny bit of hope that I'm going to wake up and we're going to be 250 for three or whatever after the first day

and we were 170 all out and I just had this like moment of every time I've done this in every ashes for however many years that I've been alive I've had that exact same feeling of oh for God's sake it's like it's the hope that kills you crossy that's what they say but it was there's been on so many people that been like oh here we go again Like one said it feels like 20, 21. The other thing as well that I've got, I'm really annoyed about, it actually really, really, really made me angry.

I set my alarm to watch the first ball of the ashes, like a lot of cricket fans would have done. Set my alarm for 20 past two because the test might start at half past two. But it didn't. It started at 20 past two. And there was no notifications anywhere. It wasn't obvious. No one knew.

I went into Old Trafford the next day actually to see. the girls and a few people are like I missed the first ball and I was like yeah so did I was really really angry I'd already seen Zach Crowley get out sorry missed it it would already happen so then I was just really angry at everything so I'm going back to sleep I'm not even going to watch out of protest right yeah I mean it was weird that it's starting at 20 fast it's something to do with the TV back the other side of the country or something I don't actually know isn't it mad right when I think of this test match right they had no Nathan Lyon who's off the field for most of it then got hitting the hip was off the field

most day of the second day no husband quadra back spasm also needs to talk about like his

Instagram post was hilarious no Cummins no hazel wood and Stark takes temper that's a very Australian I think

that you get excited that there's some big names missing and then everyone else is still really good

at cricket and you just think you kind of get sidetracked by the fact that there's names missing

when actually Mitchell Stark is still a very very good cricketer And he got, what do you get seven for in the first inning? Yeah, yeah. We did our prediction, didn't we, sat around the table in Dubai when we're on holiday?

And I was like, I'm still not sure what my prediction is. I've gone with 3-1. England got to play better to get that one. Yeah, it could still happen, though. I think that's the thing, isn't it? It's so easy, so easy to sit here and be like, they've lost him two days. It's going to be an absolute car crash. They're a better team than how they played.

They know that. We all know that. We get annoyed at this team because they have these days. Like they have the day that they are 60 all out. They do that. But they also have the day where they go and score 400 in a day. So you almost have to give them, rightly or wrongly, give them the wiggle room to have these bad days,

but then give them the chance now. They've got 12 days or whatever it is till Brisbane to go and turn it around. But it's just so hard because that Brisbane game, being a day-nighter, obviously Australia's got a very good record at Brisbane. We've not got a very good. record at Brisbane so um it's hard to it's hard to give them the wiggle room but they are the team

that you do give the wiggle room too if that makes sense yeah i know what you mean like but they're just a frustrating team to watch aren't they because you're like so annoying so i said the only thing that worries me i'm not worried about our bowling attack i think our openers are fine like the middle order the middle order collapses that we'll have and then it happened and it happened so badly. It's so quickly as well. When you're in a dressing room and something like that happens, you all sort of sit there like, so what can we possibly say?

We know we weren't good. We know we were bad. We know we've really messed that up. But anyone want to go for tea? Yeah. I think what I said around that table when we did those predictions was it feels a little bit like everyone's just completely dismissed what happened in New Zealand with the one day team, which is quite similar to what the test team was.

Like we were bowled out for 200, 220 in those three ODIs. And then everyone's like, of course we can go to Australia and score 400, 500 quickly against a really good bowling attack. Yeah. I remember you saying that and I was like, oh my God, that's such a good point. Like nobody built anything's then. Yeah, no one built anything's then and no one's building anything's now.

But what we can say is that everyone's due. So that's great news. Everyone is due to runs Everyone is due I was meant to point out where I'm sat by the way I've not done it But if this goes on social media I feel like it looks like I'm in some sort of cage

But I found a nice little leg chair in the gym Nice Nice It just looks like you're in a nice, cool, swanky place I wasn't worried that you'd been like abducted by Jack or anything No well Yeah no I haven't It feels like I'm just missing like a glass of red.

I'll sit there, I'll be like, oh, hello. Blink twice if you need help. Help me. I'll tell you what, though. I haven't felt excitement at a cricket game like I felt day one for a very, very long time. Now, imagine that. Then imagine setting your alarm at 2.20 in the morning to watch it.

I'm missing it. That's how angry I was, Al. That's my excitement. Anyway, I'm glad you had a great time. Yeah. Oh my God. I actually forgot this is on our notes. But I've got this fun new thing that I'm doing with the BBC.

And this is like an in-person podcast, like a short, sharp 10-minute show called The Debrief. And I was so excited for it. And I had two days of it. Short, sharp, like the test matches. Yes, that's exactly what. it was like and it was great because day one you know we were winding up glen mcgris like oh how are you feeling five no predictions on and then day two born he's like england need need to strip down as a start again how do you feel about all this talk about

i'm not going playing in cambra in this day night tour match now the lion's game where are you out with that i actually don't mind it to be honest with you like the more i think about it and the more i look at it and the more i look at everything. It's, it sort of makes sense because Canberra is so different to Brisbane. Like, Canberra's going to be like 10 degrees. Brisbane was going to be like 35. It's a different type of heat. I understand the argument of going to play cricket and hitting balls. I think this team do need to hit more balls as in, in matches. So I'm sort of on the fence. I'm genuinely on the fence with that. I don't really know where I stand. I just think if

This was after the third test match and this window was here, you wouldn't consider it. It just feels like because it's so early in the ashes that everyone's like they have to go and do this. But it's not necessarily the answer to them. I saw Alex Stewart actually did a thing with the BBC saying if they'd have won in two days, there's not a chance you'd saying that everyone should then go and play in this match,

which I thought was the perfect way to describe it. Just because something's gone wrong, it doesn't mean that you reinvent how you believe you're going to go on to win this series. And that's the thing, isn't it? They've got their mantra. They've got what is they think's made them successful. So why would you panic and go away from it? Yeah.

Yeah. And I think the conditions thing is massive, isn't it? Like if it was going to be at the Gabba, maybe it's a different story, but it's not. It's actually somewhere that's probably not going to recreate the same conditions for what they'll pick up against in a couple of weeks time. And that's what I was just saying to Agers. If this two-day game was in Brisbane, then you would think that a few more of them would actually go and play.

But they've got extra training days. They've booked extra training days now because there's such a long gap between the tests. So, you know, and if they go on to lose, people are going to have their heads. They're going to, you know, that's the way it's going to be. And they'll know that. But they obviously believe in their process. And I kind of believe in it as well. I'm not saying it means they're going to win

and I'm not saying it means they're going to win the ashes but they have this little mantra so why would you change it just because you've lost one game of cricket? And like Ollie Pope scores 100 in the warm-up game against the Lions it's not equaled him scoring 100 in the test match at Perth so just because if Zach Groley goes off and gets runs yeah he's probably going to feel a touch better about himself but it doesn't equal him having success at the Gabba.

I've got a serious one for you though because you went through this in January and I suppose the media weren't quite as harsh with the girls after the first game but do you read the press and how do you cope with it when you're in the middle of an Ash's series? I did. I think it was a bit easier for me this time to read it because I obviously wasn't playing in it but yeah, I read it all and it is hard.

You can't ignore it. I don't think there's a, yeah. Yeah, I just think with how much they almost bombard you with it. I don't think there's a way you can ignore it when you're in a big series like this. And like I've seen as well them like filming the lads on the golf course. And they like seven cricket put up a thing today of like Zach Crawley and Ollie Pope playing golf video with them. And then Jopra and Woody and Root maybe going to the aquarium. And then the next bit of footage was Cummins bowling in the net.

Of course he's bowling. He's coming back from an injury. Our lads might be having a day off. like it's so hard to avoid seeing all that stuff so but also like on the flip side of that before you carry on sorry it's all been bad press about england playing golf kawarja played three days of golf in a row and then had a back spasm yeah but is that why you had a back spasm no but that's what i mean that's the press that's what i'm saying so the newspapers are saying england are bad for playing golf but australia is fine yeah well

this this whole golfing's just an easy thing to chat about isn't it such an easy thing for the journalist to say that that's why they're not playing that winning games of cricket or whatever um but yeah you mentioned it earlier didn't you coager put a picture of the golf course up on his um on his instagram about the game i really really enjoyed it i thought it's top bands very good but very brave stew when you're only one game into a series because stuff like that comes back to bite you and it might not play again in this series because surely head's going to carry on opening the buying yeah

Travis had asked to open the baton as well, didn't he? He was like, I'll do it. Yeah, I'm up for it. Yeah, imagine if it was Nathan Lyon. That was the next person. Yeah, surely that wouldn't have been a permanent feature of this series, surely. No, no, no. I could see it being a good thing, yeah.

There's been so much talk here about the bounce in Perth, but obviously they don't play at the Wacker anymore. The Wacker was bouncy as well, wasn't it? Yeah, that was like dream debut land for any sort of Seema because, I mean, this was back when we didn't. didn't really play at any kind of big stadium. So the fact that you were on a test match ground at the time, you were like, oh, I know the bounce is going to be pretty true.

But what we had was this pitch that honestly all the cracks were like this big in them. Like they were massive. And if you just hit a crack, anything could have happened. So I feel like, obviously, both teams had the bat on it. But I felt like I was so effective because the areas that I was able to hit were literally where these cracks were. You've always been able to do that though Well I think it helps

And you've got like a crevice in the middle of the pitch That you can try and bang away on But I do remember I don't remember that match and think Oh my God it was so bouncy That's how I took all my wickets Everything was like caught behind off drives And LBWs and stuff

So it wasn't like I'm sat here going That's why I had success in that game But we had Danny Hazel playing in that match And I think she bowled three over's in the whole of the four days. I'm pretty sure she didn't take a wicket. And this was also when Catherine Brunt had been taken out of the attack for

bowling two beamers and she still didn't bowl Danny Hays or like, that's how ineffective spin was over there. Okay. Because I've never, I don't think I've really played on a pitch that you talk about that's all that different other than when you're in the subcontinent. But like, even during my ashes in Australia, it was never like, this is really bouncy or this is stay low. it was like, yeah, you're playing it, Blacktown or wherever we play.

Yeah, well, I was going to say that test match, that Blacktown test match and the North Sydney one where Pez got the two hundred, they were club grounds effectively, weren't they? And they will offer more bounce than English traditional pitches do. But what I noticed was Zach Crawley's dismissal in the second innings, like that drive that he only said he was obviously like, that's a drivable delivery. And then it's caught, caught by Stark. Like that's probably where the bounce is different, where you think you're able to drive ball. and it's just not there to drive.

Australia in general is bouncier than here. I think that's why you get, you see a lot of very successful batters from Australia are good pulling and cutting because of the bounce. Might be a trampoline under there, we don't know. Probably is. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender,

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I actually have something on my sticky note, which goes away from the ashes a little bit. Yeah. Do you remember our sticky notes? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Okay, so we had, um, probably one of my, I think it's probably one of the funniest moments I've witnessed this year actually

and it evolved you this, um, this recent trip we've had in Dubai. So you, um, you were left in charge of booking us a golf, a golf course. Yeah, I was. Yeah, you, um, it was really busy, wasn't it? Because the DP World Tour was on. So a lot of people were playing golf in Dubai that week. So it's really hard to get a course. And you managed to find a really cheap, 18 holes at a really great, lovely course in Dubai for Tuesday. So I was like, get it booked. Absolutely get it booked. It worked out about 75 pound each, 80 pound each.

Yeah, yeah. Something like that. So I was like, get it booked because everything else is a lot more expensive than that. And then do you want to tell people what happened when you booked it? Yeah, of course. Do you know what? Because there's nothing I would rather do than tell this story. I book golf.

And my Monzo said, this amount has come out of your bank account. I thought, yeah, fine, not a problem. And you said, how much do I owe you? So I actually went on my Monzo, and 1,900 Singaporean dollars came out of my Monzo, which equates to £1,300. It was the most expensive round of golf we have ever played. And it told us that we get a free bottle of water and we turn up And they were like, no, we're doing a no plastic thing at the minute.

You don't get any water. I felt sick. I laughed so hard. So hard. The one thing you were left in charge of doing it cost me 400 pound. I know. Oh, my God. And then the guy we were playing with was, I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll sort that out.

Walked off after nine. I was like, that's an expensive nine. But we met a friend, didn't we? We had a fourth person join us, and he was an Austrian man called Walter. So shout out to you, Wold. if you're listening? I have something, no, even more embarrassing that happened that holiday. I went in the pool to take a selfie because, you know, I was feeling a bit of vain, shock.

And I couldn't get out the pool the same way I got in, so I had to go to the other side of the pool and out the steps because I didn't want to get my phone wet. And as I came down the step, I slipped and fell, I did, made a right, good thud. And I was like, oh no, all these people turned and was like, oh, no. And all these people turned and was like, but like no one asked if I was okay. And I was like, oh, brilliant. And my knee, I don't know if you're going to be able to see it,

is still bruised. Oh, yeah. And I got back to the bed, yeah. I got back to the bed. I was like, you didn't see that, you didn't see that. And you're like, no, I didn't see it. I'm so sad. I missed it.

So sad. Because it would have been so funny to, obviously once I knew you're okay, it would have been so funny to have that in my head. It was honestly banana peel stuff. Oh my God. Amazing. It's so embarrassing. You are okay though, aren't you?

Yeah, fine, it'd just hurt my ego. Just the old ego bruised. Right, we put a plea out on Instagram, didn't we? Yes, yes, we did. Some quickies. Who was at Perth? Tell you, it was on field, knitting menom. That's a fresh one then?

Yeah, I don't think we've ever been upstairs with him. debut, off we go. If England lose 5-0, should we stop doing Ashes' Tours for men and women in Australia? tell you. Tell you what, that would be a really bad 12 months for England cricket, wouldn't it, losing 16-0 and 5-0 in the men's women's respectively? No, because the title will at some point. Of course it will, and, you know, things will change.

I mean, if England lose this test series, like obviously people at the top will go like with the women, and we then start afresh. I don't think we should stop, though. It's like saying should we stop going to India because it's really hard to win over there in their condition. You absolutely don't stop, because you're not. Could we start a Barmy Army for when England women's play at home and abroad?

I would love that. Yeah, do you know what, Barmy Army? Start a women's one. I reckon people would come and watch. Of course they would. We kind of have a small contingency of regulars that come and watch the women's team, don't we? So it wouldn't be too hard to drum up some support. But we've never had overseas trips, like, booked for you or done through a company like the Barmy Army.

So it would be nice to see a bit of that. Here's a good one, Crossie. This is from Frank. Will England bat 50 overs once this series? Yes, they will. They definitely will. Of course they will. Yeah.

Which Oval, this is from Steph Morley, which Oval is the best? And then puts, duh, Adelaide. Do you know what? I don't really like Adelaide. The Perth New Stadium's class, you know. It's wicked, isn't it? So cool.

I got to play there. New Year's Eve when I played for the scorches and we followed the men's game and it was so cool we played against Brisbane and I've got this amazing photo it was this epic sunset that you know and this whole sky just turns red it was like red and purple but like blazy and it was so cool because that's how we brought the new year in oh world class favorite ashes memory from playing or watching I mean I know yours surely dear wacker it was my 19 not out of Bristol no way they would be it would be up there but no

yeah the wacker's got to be pretty cool I'm actually a bit sad that the actual men's ashes hasn't isn't the wacker anymore because do you remember that day when we went and we sat with the balmy army it was just epic well that was the last one at the wacker was it

yeah that was cool Yeah, my favourite probably has to be my test match but also there was no one there and looking back it was such an occasion for us but there was just like no one knew about it and that makes me a bit sad so I do think the 2023 Ashes was very very memorable for like those kind of reasons

like the crowds that we got and obviously beating them in the White Ball series but I think yeah you make your test debut in an Ashes series that's pretty cool yeah I think mine favourite was watching Danny Wyatt score 100 which meant we ended up drawing the ashes in 2017 yeah that cost harbour

yeah that was ended up being 8 8 my worst worst is watching at least Perry score 200 in the day night test at the North Sydney Oval and that's the one that Danny Hazel predicted wasn't it yeah yeah we're going to be sat here

and Perry's going to be two in an accident So we were just running the drinks, so you obviously have all that chat. And I was like, nah, never, never been. And you bloody was. Still going. Right. So, enough of the questions and the quickie. It was a good quickie, though.

Thanks for the debut. Short and sweet. Nice. You are off to Brisbane tomorrow? Yes, I am. I'm in Brisbane until Saturday. And then I go to Sydney for a day because I'm working on the WBBL. And then back to Brisbane.

So will I see you on the telly? If you can find Channel 7. Well, I think that's the feed that we get. Oh my God, I'll be on your telly. I presume so anyway. Is that how you doing on TV commentary? Yeah, it's doublehead a day as well. Yes, that'll be that one then.

Lovely. So I do that and then it's still about 14 weeks till the next test starts. Yeah. Well, they can go and play some warm-up games at least. I've got loads of time. Go and play some golf. Oh gosh, don't talk about golf, Al. What have you got coming up?

Dubai Sevens. I'm so excited to hear about it. I can't wait to hear about everything you've been up to. I'll let you into a tiny little secret, you know, but for everyone that doesn't know. I'm going to be doing something pretty cool on Thursday. So I'm going to Abu Dhabi to do some sailing, the GB sailing team. So I'm going to meet Ben Ainslie and get to have a. think like go out on the boat and you know I'm so scared of the sea I think I've got to wear a

wetsuit so it's going to be amazing but also there's going to be so much of it I'm going to hate so much but I'm kind of excited this comes from the girl that had to count to a thousand on a boat because the water was splashing in her face that was a choppy boat I felt like we could have fallen out and been forgotten about and then get lost at sea everyone knows my theory you cannot get lost in a swimming pool, but you can get lost at sea. Don't forget to email us on. No Bowlspodcast at BBC.com.com.com.com.com. It's a good.

They've said it twice. You can text us on 8-1-1-1-1. And you can WhatsApp us on. I'm going to see if I can remember this. 0-3-123-1826. That was smooth. So, like the producer was sat in the room. Right, bye everyone. Good luck, England.

Welcome to Terlenders. I'm Greg James. He's Felix White. Hello. And that is England's greatest ever bowler, Jimmy Anderson. Hello. We've finally got our break on BBC iPlay. It's lovely to be here. England haven't won a test match in Australia since the 2010-2011 series,

which is a long time ago. Give us a few reasons to why it's so difficult. The wickets are different, the ball's different, and the heat as well. The media coverage over there is so much bigger

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