Test Match Special - No Balls: The Cricket Podcast – Dane van Niekerk explains what happened before the T20 World Cup

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

Kate Cross and Alex Hartley are joined by Dane van Niekerk in a powerful interview discussing how her dream of leading South Africa at a home World Cup came crashing down.

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It's what England we're looking for. Heartley balls. Down the track comes scoring. This time, chicken X. It's either six or out. It's six. Hello, and welcome back to No Balls, a Cricket podcast. I appreciate it's been a while

but Crossie you've been on holiday I have been on holiday and I'm going to get straight in there Crossie we have a guest from minute one it must be a record for us we're doing well Danay Van Nehook

welcome to No Bowles of Green podcast Yeah I'm excited to do here I can't wait for you guys have in store to be honest You've been teasing us for a few months now because you said you were willing to come on it you sent a little tweet or we sent you a little tweet actually

and then this has been kind of going on in the background for a couple of months now. We've been so excited to get you on here. Yeah, well, I mean, I've known you guys for quite a bit. And, I mean, just the conversations I've had. I was just like, oh, I need to get, like, a proper conversation with you guys. Yeah, it's a bit of fun, a bit of honesty and a bit of just, yeah, nonsense talking, to be honest. Honestly, I'm going to throw her under the bus here.

But I asked her to come on during the T20 World Cup when she was commentating. She's like, oh, my God, I'd love to. It'd be such a privilege. And I was like, oh my God, no, it'd be our privilege. No, it absolutely would. So you do need to set the scene because you two actually sat together in a room in Hong Kong at the minute. So tell us what's going on.

We are. We're in Hong Kong. And we are here for fair break, aren't we? Yeah, we are. Yeah, it's been eye-opener of a tournament. But it's been good. It's been a good experience. So I'm still trying to find some proper feed. I'm not going to laugh.

We've tried a lot of things which, I'm not really happy with but yeah but it's been good it's such an experience so Deney's here playing I'm here commentating both of our first years

in Fair Break how have you found it as a competition because a lot of people won't even know what Fair Break is so I'm going to just do a little it's basically a competition where all countries 36 countries represented in this tournament

and we all play against each other or you all play against each other is it weird Like, how is it for you? Yeah, I mean, I didn't know what to expect coming here. So I was like, you know, obviously heard from Kappi, she was there last year and because she was ill for a good two weeks. So she did really well.

So she was in the hotel room. So, but I didn't kind of get, but now I get it. I get the initiative. I'm all for the initiative. It's just meeting some of the associate and, you know, is it non-associate? I got it right, but I got it wrong there. just stuff that. Yeah, the associate teams and players is just to look at them and the excitement they have.

Like, I've said it many times in some of the interviews, but it's just to see that excitement, like, it's crazy. I think I got half a headache today sitting on the side when I got out because our players were just absolutely cheering for everything. Like, they are so excited. It's a single. I thought, if you just looked down. you look up and you thought it's a six but it's only a one but you know it's just it's that love of

the game that we started playing for you know and you lose that you lose that as a cricketer if you play for a long time and you like oh it becomes a job in in certain aspects and seeing these these players just absolutely love it you like oh well it takes you back to the time where you just love the game yeah i've had the the privilege of interviewing a few of these girls and saying like what does fair break mean to you the associate cricketers And they're like, well, we get to play against Danei Van Nierke, Marizan Cap, you know, Catherine Siverbrunt. And they're like, we would never get this opportunity. And the fact that they're being paid to be here as well.

Like, there was a part of me when I came here. I was like, what's the standard going to be like? But actually, I've been really impressed. It's actually been very, very good. Yeah, but that's what you're going to get. I think just players playing with and against the best in the world. I think that's what the WBB held at the first year. You know, I came as I, you know, don't give him mass, but I mean, it was.

2016 or something and I walked in and I'm playing against at the time South Africa didn't play against Australia or the England's as much, you know and now you come here and you're playing against these big names. You know, oh my word, you know, what is this? But it actually made

me a better cricketer and I truly hope that this experience for these associate teams and players is to do just that. It changed our lives and our career and hopefully, you know, for many more years to come. that'll happen to them. I get the impression from, obviously I've not been to fair break,

but I get the impression from a distance that actually the standard of the cricket doesn't matter. That's not the point of it. The point of it is to do exactly what you've both just said. And I saw a video of a bowler getting the wicket of Danny Wyatt. I think Wolfie took a brilliant catch in the deep. And the celebrations just sum up exactly what the point of fair break is. Yeah, basically it is to give everyone a fair break.

So it's not only the players on the field, It's people like me. It's people, you know, the umpires are getting an opportunity. It's the assistant coaches. So like, for me, I turned up and they said, we're going to throw you in the deep end. You're going to present. And I was like, oh, my word, I've never done that in my life.

Like, well, now's the time to learn. Now's the time to, you know, throw yourself in and just get on with it. And I think it's been brilliant. I mean, I'm ready for home. We've still got a week left. It has. It's been brilliant. Crossie, we spoke about me and Deney and where we are.

Where are you? You've been on holiday. What have you been up to? Yeah, I'm home now. So cricket season is just around the corner, which is actually a really nice feeling. But yeah, I've been away. Went to America with my little nieces, took them to Disneyland. It was not a holiday, Al. Two, like six days with kids.

Like, when you're not doing anything, there's no relaxing time. You have to play hide and seek. You have to colour. Good contraception. Really, really, really, really great contraception, yeah. It needs to be put on adverts more. It's just like the lack of downtime that you get And then it's like 9pm

They've finally gone to sleep And you have to go to bed because you're knackered So And they're up at six And there's a lot of people that will listen to this That I've got kids That'll be like You've done six days

We've done 17 years of it And I'm really sorry to be Like you know To not understand it But it was hard work It was great though When they saw Mickey Maps It was worth it

Do you want kids after that Or is it put you off No contraception advert no I've got you. I've got you. I don't need any more kids. Right. Enough about us. We are here to get into the nitty gritty about Deney and her career and where she's at with life. Shall we do the classical, we'll start with you, Crossie. How are you? What, how am I? Actually, how am I? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm all right. How are you? But I don't really care about me today because we've got someone on who's got actually not that much to talk about. you know, how are we going to fill this half an hour? I'm not sure. Deney van Nairke, welcome to the podcast. How are you? Yeah, good. How actually are you, though?

Yeah, I'm obviously good. You know, obviously a lot of things transpired in the last couple of months, if not even the last couple of years, you know. So, yeah, it takes a toll, but, you know, I'm blessed to have a very good support system around me and especially my wife and, you know, Yeah, I mean, I'm good. It's just, under the circumstances, probably not, you know, the best, if that makes any sense.

I think we should take it all the way back, Crossy, to, I guess, two years ago now when you broke your ankle. And that's when you probably, is that when you first found yourself out of the team for South Africa? No, actually, you are at such a great year in 2019, leading into 2019, I think it was the 19th of Fibb. I got a gray three, a femur neck, hip stress fracture that put me out for nine months. But, yeah, I think the timing probably with the ankle was not great. I actually made, I don't know if it was a stupid comment, but it was a truly honest comment the other day in an interview. And I was like, when I broke my ankle, it was literally, I made a joke to copy like probably two months prior. And I was like, how I'm playing cricket at the moment, nobody can stop me bar myself.

And you know, as a cricketer, like, you know, that saying of, I can only get myself out or, you know, and I'm not saying nobody can't get me out. You know, like, it's not an arrogant thing, but, like, I felt so great. And I literally stopped myself. I broke my ankle. Nobody broke my ankle for me. How did you break your ankle? So I've read that you slipped at home. Is that what?

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's hot. If I, like my brother-in-law, Brendan, he said he would love to see some CCTV footage on that because that's the only way I can truly explain to people what happened. But we've got a pool, but it's, you know, the dogs are, like, it's... They've got money, they've got a pool. Don't you live on like a game park? Haven't you got like rhinos in your back garden?

Yeah, there's rhinos and all that's shit. I think I wanted to say, like, maybe I ran away from one of them, you know. We joked with the kids, though, with the nieces and the nephews, we said, oh, because I asked me, what happened to your leg, you know, and they can't understand what happened. And my sister-in-law, she said, oh, no, she told the kids, a rhino stepped on her foot. And until this day, they want to know how the rhinos stepped on my foot. So I wish, I wish maybe that was the case, but it wasn't. It was just, it happened so far. So the pool, we have a deck.

it's about a meter and a half drop to the yard. Dogs are down in the yard and just because of the contours of the yard it's just obviously yeah it just goes down yeah stupid there stairs next to me

I just climb down instead of taking the stairs feet went out from underneath me landed on my foot stepped to the side because it was like this cement block because it's a new, obviously, it was a new construction, so there was a cement block sticking out,

and my foot was landing on that. And I sat down there in the rain for a good, probably 10, 15 minutes crying, and my dog, Loki, that's 100 cages, was licking my face, as if nothing was wrong. And then my brother-in-law came out because they realized I was gone for quite a bit, but I tried to get up and I had nothing underneath me. I was like, oh, there's something wrong, yeah. And shame, he came down, he picked me up. that's how strong he is

he'd pick me up and yeah it took me in Cappi was in full I guess full physio slash doctor mode elevate

ice you know ice you know everything compress but the ice on a broken leg yeah

that I was shaking for quite a bit but yeah that's yeah I broke my ankle there's no

no lies about that so the recovery from the ankle where did that take us up to so what what year are we in now we're 2023 so that was 22 because it was just before

they missed the Com Games World Cup World Cup Com Games you're aiming to be back for the T20 World Cup was that the goal no it was actually the Commonwealth I was very even the the test I was very upset that I couldn't

make the test you know my live stream must to be a, you know, captain a team in a test. So it's very upset when they told me I couldn't be there. But the hindsight, absolutely. I shouldn't have, probably should have played the hundred, just physically I was not where I should be, especially seeing photos. It's, it's proper, embarrassing, to be honest. But, you know, when you're in denial, you're in proper denial. So I've never been the thinness, but I'd never look that way. So, yeah, that was the ideal but yeah it didn't work out that way so you did play the 100 um we can just dip into

that a little bit because the 100's obviously a big deal over here you you must absolutely love that competition you did so well in that first year must have been difficult obviously coming back not being 100% fit in the second year but like what are you looking forward to this year where you're up to with it yeah I mean yes I couldn't believe that I got picked up to be to be honest you know you're one of the best cricketers in the world no because you're Because, I mean, obviously, I haven't played as much. So for me, it was like, yeah, I didn't know what to expect. And obviously, to be fair, I wasn't the best person, the last 100.

You know, I was the appointed captain, but it kind of got because I'm like, how am I appointed captain, but I'm dropped, you know, like, well, how does this work? And as a cricketer, it's different when you lose out when you injured than actually being dropped, you know. And that's never happened in my career. Like, you know, I only know injury. Like, that's the only time Danay Finikar gets left out, you know, is injury. And now I'm getting left out because there's somebody better, Deney. Like, you haven't been playing.

You are not fit enough to actually play. Not that J.B. and them had that conversation. They were always very respectful, very supportive. And I couldn't see, I couldn't understand what was going on. I was fuming. But yeah Like for me it's Yeah

I love the 100 Don't get me wrong But yeah The last season I wasn't the best I guess the best team player To be fair You've won it two years in a row

Like how good is that Yeah Well Again I always say We've got a great team You've done so well How well have they done You've got the same team

Yeah you've got the same team in the draft I don't understand You've lost Ishmael obviously She's gone to well fire your team all but literally when I was looking three of the teams I was like no one at the Oval's changed it's the same team yeah you literally have the same team yeah but that's the thing I'm not going to lie it was obviously difficult

not to see Shibi there because when you build a team that's and she she was incredible last year and she was incredible the first year and she's an incredible cricketer so shame we've got it's well done wash fire so obviously that I guess happens with a draft I was hoping that obviously should be days. I was vocal about it to her, obviously. It does not matter, you know, but yeah, I think JV did an incredible job to keep the team as close to the same as possible. So we're brushing

around the tougher subjects here. The last couple of months have been incredibly tough for you. You didn't get selected for the World Cup due to not doing your 2K fast enough, if we're going to be brutally honest how did you find obviously first finding out that you you passed everything else you'd done really well you didn't make your two your two K time

when CA told you that you weren't going to play in that World Cup how did that sit with you and how did that make you feel? Yeah um it was a weird thing though because I absolutely failed

the first test like I shh tricks if I'd like I just I shit the bed I almost walked the 2K um but that wasn't the first time with the 2K and you know the management knew that I absolutely had a block when it comes to the 2K so yeah leading into because it was a try series that we had um I kind of knew you know I was a bit in jeopardy there um but still proud of the weight I lost the skin falls so I had the fitness percentage that I had in five years.

So percentage-wise, I was very proud of what I achieved. But unfortunately, I guess the running was the prerequisite and that I understood in a way. But it wasn't the first time, I guess. So you obviously not made that 2K time previously, but still played for South Africa? Yeah, so we didn't have the 2K back in the day, but I was never the fittest

that I can promise you so it's maybe not making the running but I certainly got the highest percentage I had in four years and I've played a World Cup since then so I think that was the most disappointing thing for me was I was picked previously because I was good at cricket

and I don't know how that went out the window to be honest but I've never been an advocate of saying that you shouldn't be fit to play for your country because that certainly I never said. Hence, I never fought with anyone leading up to anything. But I also thoroughly believe that we're not playing in the Olympics at the moment. We need to win games of cricket. And I believed in myself as a cricketer, as a tactician, as a captain.

And, yeah, I just felt like that also should carry some sort of weight. It does not mean that I should not, but it's not that I came to a fitness test where I weighed more, my skinfault was higher, you know, my running was worse. It was actually better, everything was better. So I did not set to my ass and do nothing, if that makes any sense. When it all came out, me and Al obviously did the podcast that you listened to. And we spoke about how it's a really difficult balance at the moment because women's cricket has shifted in its professionalism so quickly

that you almost have to allow time for the players to catch up with that as well. You know, you can't tell someone that they have to be fit in. two weeks time because it doesn't work that way. You obviously came back from an injury. So was there any conversations that you had with cricket South Africa having failed that 2K that where they said will allow you more time or, you know, there's another date that we can do a fitness test on for you to try and pass or was it just you have to hit this on this day and if you don't, you know, then that's it.

Did they give you that warning? Yeah, there was a cut of date. So it was probably two or for the World Cup, it was probably three. three weeks prior to me being omitted from the tri-series. And I took it on, you know. I said, well, I will take every last day that I could to make, you know, team for a home world cup. I knew I was far off, but I would have done anything and everything,

and I did anything and everything to get there. And, yeah, so they did. They gave me the opportunity, and I will not take that. from them, 100%, but that was the cutoff. Any other player in the country would be allowed that opportunity to run before that cutoff date because that's when the teams should get sent in, etc., etc. So, yeah, that gave me the opportunity. But everything leading into that final date probably, that's the thing that got me the most.

I think that's the process that got me I think you need to work to play for your country but you can't kick somebody when they're down if that makes any sense so you say other things that were leading into that before you cut off date what were those other things yeah so obviously I was omitted from the try series

which I never fought against obviously I had some conversations with with the powers to be but I try to give the common sense as to you are leaving me out I haven't played any competitive cricket and I need this

competitive cricket to play so if I'm in the plans and you know the confidence in there for me to get that the 930 mark then I need to play again but I also didn't expect to just get a free pass because that's not who I've been as a captain or as a player

my life. But yeah, so things transpired where I got called into a meeting and my captaincy was stripped from me probably maybe a week, two weeks before my final test. What was the reason for that? Oh, yeah, it was a good one. So the power was to be told me that they realized that there's a reason, there might be a chance that I'm not going to make the team. So they might just take it now and then, you know, the team can stay the same.

And I was just thinking at the time, I was like, well, that hurts because I'm literally training alone. I'm training alone. I'm waking up in the morning, training, running, doing everything I can to be here. And you saying that, well, where's the faith then? So you're kind of telling me that you, you know, you're not, you don't have confidence in me doing the 930. Did they support you with a training plan to get you to be fit or did they leave you to your own devices with that?

To be quite frank and honest leading into everything so there was a phase where I did CSA was brilliant just often when they came back from the World Cup I think they realised that maybe there was a bit of a hole left by me so

you know I got a trainer they got me a trainer if I needed a dietitian you know they really that I will not take away from CSA but leading into the three weeks prior to the World Cup it just the wagon the wheels of the wagon fell off I don't think they forgot about me they just did not in my opinion and then again it's just my opinion was the worst thing for me is sitting in a

meeting begging to be a net bowler to my team I think for me that yeah that that hurt me the most because I was told that there's no facilities for me there's a try series and I looked at them and I was like, but guys, so I didn't have a room in the hotel. I stayed with Marizond, my wife. I had to drive home to get a car. I get it. I'm not part of the tour, but I'm still the South African cricket player. And at the time, I was still appointed captain, you know, and yeah, I had to drive back to Pee, get my car, come back. It was just, it was bizarre, to be honest. I just couldn't understand why I cannot, I'm not taking

anyone's time because I understand you're in a series so you cannot let bowlers bowl to me when there's badders that need to train, but I can bowl to my teammates, I can be there with my team not be furtherly if that's a word

alienated from my teammates. So I could bowl to them when the team is building one of the coaches can throw balls to me. I ended up training with a at a school, I think it was Salborn College and a wonderful guy Murray who's the head of sport there or cricket sport or whatever. He, out of his day, he came and threw balls at me for an hour. Like, it just, it's just like, how, how can you not help me? I was told that, oh, they've got

facilities, but I need to spend two weeks in Pretoria. I don't want to spend two weeks because I haven't seen my wife. So how can I not be around my teammates and not be afforded these opportunities to just bowl to my teammates? It just made no sense. Obviously being outside of this and not knowing what's actually going on inside your camp,

we saw this happen with Lizelle last summer, our English summer. And it felt like the same thing was just repeating itself and you could almost see that your retirement was going to be imminent because of what had happened. So what was your final straw? What made you decide that's it I'm going to retire from international cricket? To be fair, I just couldn't, Kate, I just couldn't put my body through what I did.

It was unhealthy. You know, I spent a lot of time alone at home. I didn't see my wife. My life has always been cricket. You know, I've been doing it for 14 years. And when it gets taken away from you, yes, injury-wise, 100% First of all, I was in a bad state breaking my ankle, missing a World Cup, and then all of this. I just, I couldn't do it for a company that do not appreciate what I, yeah, and it's not, and I've always said it.

I've always said and I'll stick with it. I don't want you to come kiss my house, sorry for the blunt, you know, like everybody has their day, but surely what I've given and done. what I've put my body through for the last 14 years. When you say what you've put your body through, so we know that being, me and Crossy talk about it a lot, being a professional athlete takes dedication, it takes time. You miss out on so much. You miss out on birthdays, Christmas, whatever you miss out on.

But when we talk about you putting your body through that last three weeks, two months, three months, to try and make your fitness gains for that World Cup, what did you put your body through? because we've spoken about it before and it's not nice. Yeah. Like, you know.

Yeah, well, I didn't eat. And I went through a six-week program where, again, CSA got me a trainer. I worked with the now national, the South African trainer, Moody. You know, he, I worked with him. He was the warrior's trainer. He's now the national men's trainer.

They gave me, you know, help. But I couldn't lose weight. And I didn't understand. I went through six weeks of, killing myself and I did not I did not pick up a gram or lose a gram

what do you think the reason was no and then I went and I saw a doctor doctor von Hagen he's the he was the proteus men doctor and he's a World Cup winning doctor for the spring box the rugby and our South African doctor

which I loved dearly doctor Tsego Faso she referred me to the doctor and because nobody understood why I didn't lose weight, but I've got PCOS. Now, at the start, Australia, thank goodness, with the Sixers, they picked it up. They gave me metformin, but what I had, metformin would work, but it can't work without something else, but they never had something else. So, and I've got a form of, not diabetes, but a sugar, so I have to get insulin and use the metformin.

So, but I never knew. that. So I never understood why I'm not losing weight because I'm running myself into the ground. I'm not eating. You know, like it was just, yeah, I just, I became despondent, to be honest. Like, you know, when you just go stuff it, I just cannot do this anymore. Like, then I just go on a binge eating whatever I want and drinking whatever I want because me not eating or drinking anything makes no sense that I'm not, you know, and I got onto my medication and everything worked at the right arm guys like and i got the comment that oh well maybe you just had to start earlier when i got omitted and i was like but you guys know that i needed this

like i needed the help and everything worked it's not medication doesn't start like this it's not a flash where you go there you go beautiful it's working you can't you cannot say that because what i did and what i put i i i dropped three minutes almost in in less than two months. Three minutes on a 2K. Like, were you walking your 2K before then? Very close to. Very close to, honestly.

Just to clarify, so even knowing this, that you've got the medication that's going to help you lose your weight and get fitter because you've finally found what's been kind of stopping you. Cricket South Africa still didn't say to you if you continue on this stuff and, you know, another couple of months down the line,

you might be fitter and hit that 2K time. Did they give you that option or did you then walk away and retire at that point? I had some funny conversations Kate. I had some funny conversation. I think just without going into too much

details, I just realized that I'm done like I've always been Danae. I've never been the fastest run. I've never been the fittest. Cricket for South Africa. That's never been me. And it's not being arrogant about it. It's just literally me. I've I hated running my whole life. I don't like running. I will do it. But I've never let my team down when it

comes to winning a game for my country. I've never let my team down when it comes to fitness in the sense of my fitness was the reason why I couldn't take a game through. I've won games of the back of my bat many years. And as I said, literally, I was, yeah, but do you get one saying like without being the fittest because I knew how to I love playing my country and I loved winning games to my country and that that got me so no matter how unfit I was or how exhausted I was that pride and that love that I had to to win games in my country you forget about being tired yeah you forget about being not the the epitome of fitness you know because apparently like we have to look a certain way to be an athlete but

But like, nah, yeah, it was never that, there was never those conversations, even though the whole world won't know what the conversations were leading up to, to my fitness tests. But, you know, I gave everything and I will say that with pride. And that's what I said, and I've said it before. When I sat in the meeting, they told me, Dana, you are not picked for the World Cup. I said, I'm heartbroken, but I pack my bags with pride. Those were my words. How did you then feel commentating? So me and Crossi have spoken about this a lot.

And we've been brutally honest on this podcast. When you're out of a team, the only way you can get back in is if that team's losing. And there's part of you that wants the team to lose. How did you honestly feel watching the World Cup? Did you want South Africa to win? Yeah, I did. But I'm not shy to say that I was very conflicted

because I knew that if the team did well, which I expected, because it's a team that I've helped grown for many years, you know, so which I expected that the team was going to do well. But I knew that if something good came off this World Cup, which I hoped for the players that I absolutely love in that team, you know, my mates, you know, people I've grown up with,

not just team. It's people like, yeah, my wife. you know so i wanted them to do well but i also knew as i said if this goes well everything that transpired would get pushed under the rug it won't be asked there's no question asked and that's it you know and and for me it was just like it was a bittersweet moment in my opinion because i also wanted to be there that's why i broke myself to get to p.e what they called maybe said it wrong but

very well I've practiced for weeks and I still can't say it back out but I wanted to get there I wanted the band to sing the national anthem I had tears in my eyes

at St. George's I had tears in my eyes because I wanted to be there I wanted to experience that and seeing players experience that I was happy for them but I was also like better because

I did not work 14 years not to be here like it yeah Yeah, it's just, to be honest, as I said, I'm happy for what happened because the country needed it as well. But it just threw a rug over what was transpired. Me and Al have both had those scenarios where, for me,

it was the 2017 World Cup, our home woke up. Al obviously was part of that and won it and knows how life changing that was for the team and for women's cricket in the UK. Al then has her where she lost her contract and now commentates on the team that she played in and it's obviously really difficult and I think everyone listening to this podcast

can hear how passionate you are about it and how much it would have meant to you and I think watching that final I was back home by then I can't remember but it looked unbelievable the atmosphere at nearly probably you got knocked out yeah we were gone

we were way gone yeah by South Africa for God's sake but yeah the atmosphere looked incredible So, like, on that day, can you, like, talk us through how you were feeling? You know what? I'm glad you brought it up because people was like, oh, you were so, like, obviously, the trolls, the amazing people on, on social media is just, oh, they were wonderful. People, yeah, the trolls on on social media was like, oh, how did you go to India knowing that is a semi-final and a final? I was like, I think for my, I think for me, had the end of the day.

To get away from it. Oh, yeah, I needed to. You know, I loved commentating. I absolutely love commentating. And I hope, you know, that there's a space for me, you know, in some time to do that. But I needed to get away from everything because it was just hard. It was hard because I'm standing there listening to my country, our country, singing this amazing national anthem.

And I can't sing it with my teammates. Yeah, it was, I needed it. I needed to go and I needed to train and just get away from the noise, I guess. So I guess, well, I mean, the next bittersweet thing then is you're getting picked up in the WPL, probably not expecting to. Is that fair to say?

Oh, very fair to say. Yeah, I almost fell on my back. But does that not show you how for you? And you're, I know from knowing you, you're a player that lacks self-confidence, right? Yeah. But does that not show to you how good you are? Yeah, I needed it because as I mentioned earlier, like, I don't want somebody to kiss my feet for what I, you know, what I've done. And, yeah, like, I honestly, I don't, I don't expect that.

But, you know, there was just a bit of validation, something I haven't received for quite a long time, you know. I received validation from certain management within our team with regards to the fitness and the weight and all those things. But, you know, that was just a validation. You're still okay at what you do, you know. My worth, and that's also one big thing why I left, is my worth was based on what CSA thought of me, and it was just not Alfie anymore.

So what was the, I guess, the final decision for you? why do you I get there's two questions in one why do you feel like you're not in that team anymore and why did you retire I think personally and I'll say that I think now I can I always believe that it is a personal thing I was always being a vocal person

you know I always held players and management accountable myself as well it was never me against anyone It was always even if I didn't do my job, I would hold myself accountable. And, you know, it's maybe an environment now that that's not maybe what's needed. And again, I'm just speaking about a personal, I guess, for you. I've always held people accountable. I've always asked questions whether it's right or wrong.

I was at the right things in mind. I was at the best intentions for my teammates. I got alienated from the team 100% I was injured I get it you know new captain you know different muse different I guess but there was a comment made to me as to I don't I think I lost the respect of the group and I jumped back and I said well how do I lose respect from a group if I'm not there so that that kind of got me and that was leading into the trial series and I was like but how do I lose respect if I'm not there? what is the then and my literally my words were but then it's an internal problem at the moment

because i'm not there to lose respect you know i'm not i'm at home in a moon boot or running around like a crazy person like i'm not eating not how am i losing respect from blair's so i just ask like this has to be an internal thing and and again it's it's a personal view it's it's definitely not facts or but I can only speak from my point of view and and that is what that was for me like when that was said to me I spoke obviously a lot of Marizana I was like there's a big problem here there's there's a big problem at the moment how was Cappy with it all because she is very much your first person on a team sheet when it comes to South Africa but her wife isn't being selected because she's too slow running her 2K but she's a world-class cricketer

that must have been incredibly tough for your wife yeah because copy is always the one thing about copy that people need to know she's black and white there's no grey she gets it you need to be fit you need to be fit that's a fact but she also knows who's going to win her games and who's going to help her win games for a country

not saying nobody else can't but no and I guess South Africa proved that in a way by getting to the final of the T20. Yeah, they did. But again, it's T20 cricket. The gap, and again, I'm not taking away from anything, but we need to speak about longevity. You know, we need to speak about how are we going to get to the World Cup.

We need to be better now for the next two years. How are we going to be better? Do we have the personnel, do we have the players to do that? 100%. Yes, maybe we do, maybe we don't. But you don't throw away. Years of experience, years of experience winning games for a country, for what? A short-sighted final?

Yeah. For me, again, it's a bittersweet thing. But as I said, Cappy, she took it harder, harder probably than I did it. Well, we actually, like, Crossey, I think we mentioned it together. We saw Cappy crying at a few national anthems. We saw her hugging you. Like, it was hard for us to see. It's like just England cricketts and fans. It just goes to show that it's not just your story, Darnay.

Like you have so many relations in that team. You've got friends and obviously teammates, but you've got your wife in that team. So it goes deeper than just you've retired from international cricket. There's so many levels to this story. And Kappi is obviously a huge part of that because she has to deal with the emotional side of your story as well as losing a teammate.

Yeah, but, you know, Now that you say that, like, at the end of the day, my originals has always been, we speak about the originals. And that's the people that's been there for me. And I will be frank about it. I said it to Alex before we had this podcast. We have to have an emotional beer before the podcast. I only had five or six of the current South African teammates, just wishing me well for my next venture in. So it just shows you that how alien.

I became in that environment and I wish I knew why and what I did because if I knew if I did something wrong 100% I'll try and rectify it but if I'm not there to know what I did wrong then yeah so so I hit hard when you've played cricket with these girls for let's just call it 10 years because you know you've known these girls since you're a kid now you're 29 years old and only five of them textures to say congratulations on your career. good look moving forward like how how did that make you feel well initially because obviously your phone blows up like it just goes on and on and um you know only like probably a month after then i sat with copy and we had a conversation and she was like oh and you know the x-y-and-z

message and i was like oh funny enough no like there was no there was no message of it even a shop Like, thumbs up, well done. Or, you know, just well done. You don't have to say thank you. And I was like, I got something wrong badly somewhere. Somebody got something wrong badly somewhere. Like, it's either or. And if it's me, I'll wear that hat, you know.

But not once, somebody come to me and say how badly I got it wrong. So I'm trying to figure out where, when and how. I've always loved carrying this team and not in match carrying in the sense of results because I will probably be killed after this but like I love my teammates I loved working with them

I loved leading them I absolutely loved every part of being a leader for a team that I felt like would create something special and maybe I got it wrong maybe I really seriously got it wrong and I didn't realize it. So obviously it's not very often that international athletes get to write their own retirement story and I'm presuming this is not certainly how you would have written yours 10 years ago.

Well, let's try and finish this on a happy note because you have had an unbelievable international career. You've been the face of cricket South Africa for a very long time. So can you give us like some of the highlights that you've had over the years, some you know some of your most cherished memories that you'll take away and when you finally do process this whole thing you'll be able to look back on with fondness yeah i mean i've got i've got many um firstly just the friends i made you know like you guys know playing the international cricket for so long as it's just friends you make for a lifetime um you know to people interrupt you i didn't play for so long but you made friends for longer than probably i play

so yeah it's it's just literally i think the relationships, the people I met, somebody that absolutely is dear to my heart is our doctor, I mentioned earlier, at Sechofat, who's just a wonderful woman that I never thought would come on my path, somebody that's been through me, through thick and thin, you know, again, the originals, my love for them will, yeah, that's... Who are the originals? So the originals, obviously Shabnamis, my Patricia Chetty. Minoondi 3a, the Zali Marizan Cup myself, Ayabonga Kaka, Masabata class

but yeah, it's just, it's friends I know I've made for a lifetime and, you know, certainly they've been there and then obviously captaining my team to semifinal. It's not about a semifinal, it's just 2017 was one of the best times of my life. That World Cup was so special. because I knew then that as a captain we've created a environment where when people off the field come to you and compliment you with your team

and the people around you that's one of the proudest moments because I knew that then and there that we created such a healthy and great environment so yeah and certainly leading my country that will always be so dear to my art and it's really sad that it ended that way but fond memories and, you know, cricket has given me so much

and I cannot be more thankful for that. Cricket's given you so much. You're currently fighting to find the love back for the game. What is next? What have you got cricket-wise coming up? How are we going to get that love back for you and playing cricket? Yeah, I think just, I think this phase should end. I think, as I mentioned to you, Alex,

so I feel like I'm under, I guess, yeah, a magnifying glass, you know, show them why you shouldn't have been left out. No, it's not about showing anything. It's about obviously just, as you say, finding the love. I'll say it open in honesty. I think the company, CSA has taken a lot more than what they might let off. They won't know it because it's personal

and, you know, I hated the game for quite a bit this last couple of months. but yeah, I'm just holding on to the good memories as we spoke about now and just want to play, just be on the park. I've been on the park for a couple of times now and getting the bowling back, getting that confidence back and I hit two fours today as I was proper proud of myself. Go down there.

Yeah, so it's just about, yeah, that love. That just the fun factor and not, there's no, there's nothing to it, you know. Do you think you'll get that back? I hope so. I pray to God I do. But, yeah, it's only my third game back. So hopefully with time, I thoroughly enjoyed myself that all three games. So hopefully with time, it'll just come back

and I can enjoy cricket again. Unfortunately for us, Crossie, we've got to play against, Deney. I know. She's coming over to play for the sunrises. I always think about that opening game that we played for the 100 at the Oval when I was bowling at you.

You hit me for four. That celebration is still used on Sky's adverts so I see myself bowling and getting hit for four and you punch in the air and like for me I think obviously

I don't know you too personally but you've got so much cricket on the cards still you know you've been picked up in the WPL you're going to play in the WBBL and the 100 and fair breaks you've got all these franchise tournaments

to travel around and playing now and you're playing domestic cricket in England this summer for Surmises yep yeah you've got so much cricket still left on the cards that actually the retirement from cricket South Africa,

I know you're not going to get to play for your country again, but there's still so much to look forward to, and that should really excite you. It's the start of something else. Well, to be fair, and to be quite honest, it feels like a weight was left of our shoulders. So I think it's just enjoying cricket again, as I said. But thank you, like, that means a lot.

Like, you know, you lose sight of who you are and what you can give still when things are down. But it's awesome to have. people like you guys like the OGs like you know family and all those things to make you realise and even these leagues you get picked up you don't understand why but then you know you get reminded sometimes so hopefully you know with time i'll give a lot otherwise might just be a housewife well thank you so so much for coming on we've wanted to join for weeks congratulations on being one of the best crickets in the world a fantastic career for cricket south africa you've

been amazing. You are leaving behind a legacy, whether you like to know it or not. You are. Thank you. And thank you for coming on Nobles. That's all I wanted to do is just leave a bit of a legacy. So thank you guys and I had so much fun. Thanks, Danay. Don't forget you can email us on. Nobill Podcast at BBC.com.com.com.

Nobles podcast at BBC.com.com. Well done. Thank you for everyone getting in touch with your questions for Danay, but we totally forgot to read them out. I can't lie. To be fair, I could have carried this conversation on for at least another hour, but I know it's dinner time in Hong Kong, so we need to let you go. But there was some amazing questions.

So maybe we'll get you on another time and be able to ask you some that aren't about retirement. We can have some fun. We can have a 2.0. Okay, so we'll do it. Yeah, so we're in 2.0. There we go. Deal. Right, we'll see you all next week.

Bye, everyone. Bye. Bye. And cross strikes in the first over. It's what England we're looking for. Hartley falls. Down the track comes scoring. This time she connects. It's either six or out. It's six. The attacker had very good knowledge of banking systems.

$2.1 billion in stolen funds. The cyber criminal group. It was the Lazarus group again. These are smart guys. The Lazarus Heist is back for a brand new season. We're following the latest twists and turns in the incredible story of the Lazarus Group Hackers. The Lazarus Heist, season two from the BBC World Service. Listen first on BBC Sounds.