Test Match Special - No Balls: The Cricket Podcast - it's Nasser Hussain on the pod!

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

Kate Cross and Alex Hartley are joined by former England captain Nasser Hussain to discuss the current Women's World Cup and his stellar career as a player and broadcaster.

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Every now and then, we'll say the word. Sometimes. Sometimes. And even maybe. But don't let that put you off with nice people. We beep them out. But your kids can listen. Enjoy.

And cross strikes in the first over. It's what England we're looking for. Partly balls. Down the track comes score. and this time she connects. It's either six or out. It's six. Hello, and welcome back to No Bowers of Cricket podcast with me, Kate Cross.

You Alex Hartley, I couldn't get on a Zoom just now because you described a capital letter to me as Massif K. And I thought, that a capital K was a kicking car but that's just the style of K yeah so it's all right we're here now we've made it

it was a shambles it always is a shambles how are you doing? I'm all right thank you I feel like it's the middle of the night and it's nearly 9 o'clock well we got up early because we got a guest very special guest this week and we're very busy aren't we we're just in the middle of a World Cup trying to sort out a podcast

so yes but we've got a guest how are you? Yeah I'm good, thank you. A lot better now that we've managed to get our first W on the board, our massive W. Yes, it wasn't just a little win. Yes. Yes. Yeah, feeling a lot better after that because obviously it was a bit of a crunch match and we managed to actually play very good cricket, which was the main thing. Yeah, yeah, it was, oh, it was so good to watch and I was so excited. You must be relieved. Yes, I think honestly, nine weeks, I think we've done away now and that was our genuinely like our first win our first sing of the team song we forgot

the words because it's been so long that was our first win since september 26th when we played at chelmsford against new zealand so it's been a been a tough time al but we've we've got the win and now we need to carry on doing what we did yes so it's five and a half months without singing the team song no wonder you forgot the lyrics maybe crossy it's time for a new team song well we actually i think we jinxed it because we thought about a new team song and then we've not been able to sing any of any song so maybe it was my fault for jinx in it quickly shall we do our sticky note before i guess because we're at time constraints yeah i don't actually know if i've got anything run down today oh my god i've got loads you go then because i've not much

well i'll save a couple for a later date so we can get straight into NASA but you did press conference and you got no balls in there and I didn't hear it and I want you to tell me what happened. Yes. So I did the ICC press conference which is the first time that I've actually sat in, you know, with like the sponsorship behind you and it was all very professional. Obviously there was no one there because of COVID. It was all done online. And someone asked me what I do in my spare time because of all the COVID restrictions and, you know, we're still not able to live as normal as pre-2019. So I was like, I have a podcast. It is called No Bulls a Cricket podcast.

It's with my little friend Alex Hartley and you can listen to it on BBC. No, I didn't do that bit, but I was like, I was like, we record it weekly. It's our chance of having our little counselling session and everyone should listen to it because it's good fun. Yes, and you're not wrong because this podcast is great. It was the most selfless plug. Yeah, self, yeah. Is that right? No.

I didn't care, basically, that I was plugging us. Selfless is when you do something like, that's not for your own game. You definitely did that. Very selfish then. It was a selfish plug, not bothered, not even embarrassed about it. And I've got written down here, hon, you batted at eight. I did. I didn't mean to bat at eight, though.

I really didn't mean to bar at eight. So I went in because Kaka and Kappi were bowling Yorkers. And Lisa was like, get your ramp out, mate. Go out there, get your ramp out. And as soon as I get out there, they put a really fine, fine leg in and all slow balls to me. So I couldn't get my ramp out. So it was all, it didn't quite go to plan. But also, I love that that like you were biting eight and Lisa's like get your ramp out.

Like other teams don't do their research. So instead I tried to come down the track and hit someone over extra cover. Nice. I love that. So I was on air going, this has to be the first time she's batted in single figures. It's got to be. Like the first time she's batted at eight, definitely. But it's not.

It's the second time you've batted at eight. eight. I batted, I think in the summer. Did I get up to nine in the summer? Well, you've batted at eight for England once before. When? It was the game that we played together, that T20, you had carded at eight that day. Oh, I mean, I didn't actually bat that day, did I? And you had me below you. Well, yeah. I've got one more on my sticking out before we move. We're on air last night. We're doing New Zealand, South Africa, a brilliant game. And we're talking about, have you ever figured anything out in life later on that you should have already known, you and your I think cow's got brought up.

I thought everybody's bins got collected on the same day. Turns out they don't. And Stefan Schemult's teammate thought a night watchman had to stand out there all night. He didn't. He did. That is brilliant. Yeah. Like, does he play cricket?

Yeah, plays cricket and literally found out that they don't have to stand. So he's like, I don't want to be the night of watchman. I want to get some sleep. That's a good one. That is very good. one. Is it? Go on then. Bring it in. So we've got a very special guest. They've wanted to come on it for 10 years, even though it didn't exist 10 years ago. Let's go. Gossi, it gives me great pleasure to finally, after much persuasion slash maybe harassment, to introduce Nasser Hussain onto our podcast.

Good morning, ladies. How you doing? Yeah, good. Thank you. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm right. I'm a little bit pief, to be honest. I feel like I've been played like a fiddle a little bit, that hardly having not followed me for a decade on Twitter, suddenly follows me, suddenly direct messages me, and then says, actually, we don't want you, we want Lydia on first. And then you cross, so I'm walking down Mount Manganoi Beach,

and I'm waving at you because we worked together on the 100, and we got on so well. And you were giving it the big and we're going through a recovery session here, hashtag Sunday thing I'm not speaking to you just ignore me completely I'm still here and looking forward to our chat now we all you we all know that you shouldn't let the truth get in the way of a good story now so actually I'm sat on the beach did you see me on the beach I'm sat on Mount manganese yeah I'm waving waving for a good four minutes I think like like a proper little fan and nas is walking down the beach with these little rucksack on and just head down

doesn't acknowledge anyone doesn't acknowledge me so I'm thinking actually does he want to come on this podcast should we cancel yeah I've been looking forward to it you've provided great entertainment

throughout this World Cup because it's been a running theme so even last night I was like oh I've got his email address now here we go let me spot number next don't let Alex get your phone number yeah I've purposely not handed that out

to her death no so Nash you're in New Zealand at the minute. You're obviously covering the World Cup. How are you? How's it all going? It's been excellent. A, I love New Zealand. B, I love women's cricket. See, the tournament has been magnificent, really. I saw your funny on Twitter last night. This tournament should be sponsored by nail biters or something. It's been every game. Started off Set the tone that West Indies, New Zealand game, and every game, your Australia game, the South Africa game, it has gone down to the wire. And it's been great.

watching. You know, the standard has been excellent and it has really been fabulous. Obviously, you know, Australia looked like the side to be and the rest are trying to get into that top four. And the England performance the other day was where you'd expect the England team, your team to perform, really. That was much more like it, wasn't it? I was saying to our content manager last night, I was saying because we're so in the thick of it and we've obviously been on the back end of not the right results, it's so hard to see how good the games have been. But for a neutral or for anyone just watching, it must be amazing. It has been. You know, I was doing my room here last night watching it.

And not just the standard, like the competitive nature of it as well. You know, Ishmael running in, giving someone a send-off Marizan Cap at the end. If there's one cricketer, if there's one cricketer I would want to go into battle with is like Marizan Cap. I mean, jeez, I get just nervy interviewing her, to be honest. But watching her at the end there, watching her against you when she got out and I think she reviewed it on purpose so that she could go and have a chat with the non-striker, was it Chetty, and then go and have a chat with Ishmael as she walked in. So that competitive nature of it has really got me excited about the tournament.

There's been some excellent cricket throughout. What do you think has been the biggest difference between, because for me there's been a huge difference between this one and any of the previous ones. I feel like anyone can be anyone probably the first time ever in women's cricket. Yeah, I think, I think that at least Perry said that the other day, you know, five, ten years ago, maybe five years ago, you'd expect two or three and you have to look at the World Cup and it's littered with Australia and England, whereas, you know, here you cannot just turn up to a game and take anyone for granted.

I mean, even I know England has still got Bangladesh and Pakistan to play and may need to win both of those, but you wouldn't take either of those two teams. look what happened, you know, with the West Indies games. So I think that's the biggest thing, but also the standard, Alex. If anyone watched, and I know we, you are still trying to convince the doubters, and there'll be that 10% that you'll never convince, and it's not really worth worrying about, to be honest, whatever you say. But if anyone watched that England-Australia game at Hamilton

and the Standard and the Siver 100 and the Haynes 100, and, you know, it was of the highest quality. If you watch, you know, that dotting catch, you watch Eccleston bowl, You know, you watch Cap last night. You watch a Laura Woolfart cover drive. You know, the standard and what you expect. There will be downsides. Obviously, some of the fielding, and we'll get on with that with Crossy,

where they run out the other day and her extravagant celebration, the punching of the air, you know, with more exposure, there will be more criticism. But I don't think you women would have it any other way, really. Me and I'll always kind of say that you obviously get those, you get the brilliant moments, and we see the brilliant moments so much because we're involved in it, and you get the poor moments. But you also get the poor moments in men's cricket as well,

but it just seems to get bypass quicker in men's cricket for some reason. Whereas when it happens to us, it's like, oh, we shouldn't be getting paid. Get back in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. But as I said, that's not the, you know, they're not the battles you need to fight. In my opinion, I'm not lecturing anyone on this. They're the 10% that you'll never convince.

And it sometimes, you know, makes me cross. I'll come off commentary and I've used the word girls or something, even though you call each other girls and you can hear the keeper going come on girls and I'll get a tweet saying there's that 53 year old bloke calling them girls they're women NASA, they're women and I'm like there are actually more important battles

to be fighting in the women's game you know pay and maternity leave and test matches and all that stuff is the battles we should be don't sweat the small stuff basically so and tournaments like this and the closeness of it and the games that we've seen and the stand that I think that will just I know because I work at grassroots level, I coach a team, a coach a school team, my daughter

plays. And I just know the enthusiasm that you lot are spreading, whether it be 2017, my daughter's team was in the, I was there with her, Alex watching you win that World Cup or the 100 this summer. I just know what's happening down below at the grassroots level. And they're the key things is that you're creating so much interest is where you make sure that those girls, and they are girls, 15, 14, 13, have the facilities and the structures in place to carry on going up through the ranks. We wanted to talk about your daughter playing cricket because you've obviously commentated a lot on women's cricket and your daughter players. Do you enjoy watching her play or do you get really nervous? I get more nervous with my son only because

of the specifics that he's a batter. So you drive two hours to Cambridge or something. thing and he gets out first ball and you're like, thanks. I really enjoyed my day there, Joel. Whereas Layla Bowles and it's just so much easier as a parent. If I could pass on any advice to a parent, get your daughter being an all-rounder or whatever, if it's just a batter and you get a rubbish decision or some of the pitches they play on, you know, if she's got four overs or whatever, that's 24 balls of fun and she gets two strings, you'll bat as well.

I don't get nervous watching her at all, actually. I just want her to do well. And she gets a wicket and a smile on her face and she looks in my direction or whatever. She doesn't play because of me. I've never forced it on her, obviously because it's on and it's on all the time. I'm such a cricket badger.

It's on, you know, if I'm not on podcast with you too, I'm watching the cricket. So she'll be watching it. My wife works in cricket with Essex, so she coaches some of the coaches. So we're obviously a cricketing family, but it's really been up to her. I've not forced her into cricket in any way at all. That sounds so similar to my family.

That answer is exactly the answer that my dad gives about when he watches my brother play because he's a batter and I'm a bowler, obviously. He always says, when I get hit for a six, I can always come back. I'm like, oh, thanks, Dad. Do your parents, when you were playing and are playing, are they on at you, or they just let you be, or what's your relationship like with that? Are they advising you or telling you that was absolute rubbish today or not? My mum, who knows not a lot about cricket, but watches, has watched a lot of it,

as, you know, done the T's done the scoring and stuff down at Hayward, but she's the one that debriefs with me, and she's learnt all the terms. So she's like, oh, Heather was unlucky to chop on the other day. And she doesn't really know what that means, but Dad's in the background, just listening, but he understands cricket. But obviously, Dad knows what it's like to be in these moments, and he understands that we've lost by small margins and, you know, so he kind of gives the sport inside of it,

whereas mum just tries to talk about cricket. It's quite funny. Whereas my parents know nothing about cricket. I play cricket now for 20 years, and they probably still couldn't tell me the LBW rule. They know nothing, which I think it's been really great for me because I just played and when I got off the field, if I did well, if I didn't do well,

my dad still asks me the same question now. Why did you get out like that? Why didn't you get any runs? I'm like, Dad, I've bat number 11. Come on. And it's a good lesson to us as broadcasters, actually. You know, like you just said there, you've got dad or a mum that will watch for 20 years

and not quite grasp the LBW rule or whatever. We've just got to make sure that you don't presume that everyone, that cricket can be a very complicated game. So you just got to, you don't presume they know every single bit of it. And when we do commentate or broadcast on it, just try and realize there's a wide, spectrum of people that may not get everything about the game really that was the beauty of the hundred i thought obviously getting to work with you as well on on sky i thought it was really

interesting how how commentators who've done this for so long had to switch to almost going back to under 11s and saying right a no ball is this because of why xyz whatever i found that really interesting to listen to yeah and the five balls you know that's the end of the out the amount time me or kesey went well that's the end of the over and i think we had a little a little you know box we had to put 10p in every time we mentioned over or something so yeah it was but not dumbing it down too much because obviously there'll be a load of people there that um love love the the intricacies of the game as well i may or may not have been on the phone to hendo this week in preparation for you coming on this podcast and he has given me permission to say that he thinks

you are the best commentator pundit what every other word that he used at the in the world at the moment so we wanted to ask you what is it like I guess having that pressure when you call in the big moments, you obviously did the World Cup final with, you did Stokes at Headingley. Like, what is it actually like calling those moments? You could have started that sentence with, I think, but you've started it with I've spoken to someone else. Well, obviously, first of all, you don't make it about yourself.

It's so exciting to be in those moments. That was an incredible few months. To be able to sit next to the master for me, Ian Smith. I mean, how he called that moment, the World Cup by the barest of margins. You know, it was an incredible call of an incredible day, of an incredible tournament, and Smithy absolutely nailed it. So you just sat and watched a master at work.

And, you know, you know the form. You'll have a lead. You'll have a colour. And even in that, we had Ian Bishop. And Ian Bishop left it to me, because obviously it's England, New Zealand. And I was sat there between two of the great commentators in Bishop and Smith. Bishop having done the, you know, Carlos Brathwaite moment, and then Smithy calling that moment.

But headingly, I was lucky enough to have Ricky next to me. I've always found a brilliant commentator, but such a smart cricket brains that he left it to me a little bit. It's just understanding, I guess, like in a partnership in cricket or what you two do, you know, it's just understanding the person next to you and how good they are and whether they can call the moment. And I guess not premeditating your lines and just try and speak from the heart, really. I mean, when Stokes, that day at Stokes, that evening at Stokes, I've never seen anything like that.

You know, it was just unbelievable what Stokes did that day. And I was just watching him on the telly just now get the 100 in Barbados, and he's back batting like that, which is great to see. But commentary, just, you know, you two are brilliant at it. you'll make excellent pundits for years to come. And it's also hard work, I'd say, just because you played the game. I think Duncan Fletcher said to me, when I got the job, he came up to me at Lords. He says, great, well, don't you got the job at Skye. But just remember, in five years' time, this game would have changed.

So don't just presume you know it all, you know, Peterson, five years later, switch hitting Scott Styrus out of the ground at Durham or whatever. It's never in my day, I knew it all. try and go with the game as well. The game changes and try and keep up with those changes. There endeth my lesson on commentary. You actually,

you gave me a really lovely moment this summer in the, well, last summer in the 100, because you were supposed to finish the women's final off, and I just was coming off air, and you let me stay on commentary and call the first ever final with Ebbs, which I thought was just really sweet of you.

Yeah, I think that's what Bumble did with the Carlos Braffwick, And Bumble was supposed to be on lead, and Bumble looked at Bish, and he just said to Bish, Bish, this is your moment, you call it, mate. And poor old Bish went, oh, I better get this right. This is where Stindy's winning the World Cup. You know, it is understanding who is more appropriate to call that moment, really. So, you know, I thought you did brilliantly in the summer.

I thought it was an excellent sum of the 100, and the women's 100 was one of, you know, The Women's 100 in particular was one of the highlights of the summer, watching the standard and the crowds. And, you know, again, my daughter was in the crowd watching. I got Ishmael to sign her a shirt the other day, actually. Again, I was absolutely scared. My daughter was at the final, and Ishmael was doing her lap of honour at the final at Lords, and she waved.

And my daughter, be my daughter, presumed that she was waving at her, not the thousand people behind her. So she loves Ishmael, and I got Shabning him to sign her a shirt. So she was well thrilled. She woke up with a picture of that a couple of days ago. You're a braver man than me. I'd never ask Ishmael to do anything. You were talking about cricket moving on and, you know, how it's changed and adapted over the years.

Why did you start playing cricket? What was, you know, were parents, cricketers? What was cricket for you? Why? My dad, basically. My dad, I was born in India, born in Madras then, Chen. now. We, where Chennai Super Kings play their cricket, the Chepop Stadium,

we used to just play on the outfields, me and my brothers, while my dad had a little whiskey inside in the bar or whatever, and stay there until as late as possible playing cricket. Then we moved to Ilford, and I played in Ilford Cricket School, which my dad run. And it was just cricket, cricket, cricket. And my dad just wanted me to be a cricketer. And it could have gone either way.

I could have rebelled against it and, you know, I got the yips bowling leg breaks. I had to take up batting and try and make a career out of that. And he pushed me hard, but I wouldn't have it any other way, you know, when suddenly someone's ringing you up and saying, do you want to be the England cricket captain and you're ringing your dad up to say, oh, David Gray, and he's just rung me out, wants me to be the England. You know, when we left India all those years ago, for me, my education or our education and cricket.

And a boy from Madras is now the England cricket. it captain. You could hear the sort of emotion and the sacrifices he had made or my mum and dad had made. So it was a real family thing completely, completely through the family. So you're very good at this because every time I've asked you a question, you've led us into our next one very perfectly. But what? We're very prepared you to. Yeah. I'm not sure who's more successful here. But what made you such a good captain? Because we did some research and you took England from ninth in what was the Wisdom World Championship back then.

Thanks for bringing in that up, Kay. Bottom, basically. From bottom. You took England from 9th. We didn't know 9th was bottom, to be fair. Yeah. Oh, is that? Oh, lovely.

That's right now. That's another way of putting it. Okay. You were the worst side in the world. You took England from worst in the world to third in the wisdom championship. But that was over, that was pretty quick, wasn't it? It was over four series and you won them all back to back. So what, like, what made you?

you're so successful as a captain? I wouldn't say we were successful. We still lost, I think I lost the ashes in a record 11 days, didn't I? So, you know, like, Rudy was one day worse than me this summer, so this winter. I don't know. I remember Duncan turning up at Lords. I'd never met Fletcher, and Duncan turned to me and said, you're not the best side in the world, but you certainly shouldn't be the worst side in the world.

And that summed as for all we had in the 18 counties and the players we had, like Atherton, Stuart, Goff, Caddick, Ramprakash, hit, butcher, toughnal. You know, for all the players we had, we shouldn't have been the worst side in the world. So it was going on a journey, a little bit like the Red Ball reset that's going on now. It is just going on a journey. How do we stop ourselves losing first? And then another captain can come in and Bourne came in and was brilliant and made us into a winning side. But how do you stop yourself losing?

How do you make the hole greater than the sum of the parts? How do you make that sort of playing for England is the most important thing? I think central contracts had a massive role. You know, you can see how it would have changed your lives, being contracted and getting that contract. And I used to find out BBC five past the hour, five live sports. I mean, five past the hour, we used to announce the side on the radio. We didn't get phone calls or anything.

And if it went from Hick to Illingworth, you know, Hussein has been missed out alphabetically. They ain't going to go Hick, Ellingworth Hussein. So you just knew that's it. I'm not playing that week. I'll go and play for Essex. So I was predominantly, or we were predominantly, county players that occasionally played for England. And after central contracts and what Duncan or I tried to achieve,

we were England players that occasionally would go and play for counties. And your listeners were probably thinking what's the massive difference there then? But once your team is England, everything is geared towards that. team fitness team spirit everything fletcher would you know release bowlers occasionally to go and play for their county and they would be fresh you would not have had anderson abroad if it wasn't for the catford for central contracts they play for england and occasionally they go and play off for lancashire or not so it was a gradual change i was probably a bit feisty as well they needed a bit of a kick up the backside and reminding of how important playing for england is and then i was done i was

completely frazzled after the World Cup and Zimbabwe and heavy Ashes defeats, I was done. I knew I was done and someone else with more energy and also someone was a winner in Vaughn. You know, Vaughn came in, what was he described, an iron fist in a velvet glove and that sums up Vaughney pretty well. He was tough, but he just said to the team, go on, go and enjoy yourselves. Go and go and do what you did in 2005. Play with a smile on your face. And he was absolutely brilliant at taking that side forward. Did you read our notes? Honestly, this is much.

Next. Was that a long, waffly answer? I've waited for 10 years to come on this podcast. I'm going to make sure I use every minute of it. Next question. We retired. Good luck editing this one. In 2004, was it, you retired for me, Captain.

How did you feel watching the 2005 ashes? and was there a part of you that was like, should have done another year? No, not at all. They wouldn't have won it with me. I had too much mental scarring and baggage against Australia. Did you not just listen to my last 15-minute answer? Well, you're answering all our next question,

so we don't know what to do about. You're on the screen here, Hartley. You literally went off and made a coffee or something during that answer, didn't you? No, they wouldn't have won't have it with me, completely, you know, born and Strauss and everyone. But what I did like was the Australian, and that's what I love about Shane in that series, as Shane stood up the way he did. You know, for years, they used to say about us, you know, are they mentally weak?

You know, they're not mentally weak. It's just that you've got McGraw-Worn, War, Slater, Taylor, you're pretty good side. We're not mentally weak. And it was great to see when that born England side, 2005, put Australia under pressure, then they started to just, there was a little bit, rumors of a little bit of infighting in the dressing room and, you know, the toss at Edgebaston and why are their bowlers bowling the way they did.

And, you know, it's great team spirit and everything, and you're winning when you're losing, as various England sides have found in Australia, that famous, you know, cook side was dismantled. Team spirit goes out the window, really. So I enjoyed watching, after years of been hammered, by Australia, even in the commentary box where I try and stay completely impartial. I enjoyed watching England, put one over the Australia.

Outside that had been so hard for us to beat, watching and win that was fantastic. Hartley's got a little confession here, haven't you, Al? What's my confession? You only started watching cricket in 2005. Yeah. So you have no idea who I am. No, I just thought you were a commentator. No, I'm joking.

No, I didn't. started watching cricket because of 2005 and that's when I started, that's probably started playing in 2006. So that was quite late. Cross came into that. All this stuff cross gives about, oh, you know, I love you and my hero. She literally walked into the pod in that first game of the 100, completely ignored me again and just went up to Freddie and go, oh, Freddie, you're my hero. I only played the game because of you, Freddie. Do you want a coffee, Freddy? It's like, all right, Kate. Nice to meet you as well. So absolutely. Flint, off, so you have no idea of pre-2005, basically?

No, no. And to be honest, I watched 2005 and then played myself, but didn't actually watch cricket again for a long time. I didn't even know England women played cricket. I started playing. How did you get into it? How did you get into it then? If the family weren't overly cricketing, what was your start-up?

So I played football. I was the only girl on my estate with all the lads, and we all played football, and one Friday night, one of the lads went there's a cricket team up the road should we all go and there's like six of us so i ran home so and mom was like can i go and play cricket she's like no she's like you do everything and i was like the bar's open she went all right come on then so that was it and i loved it from that one day up there i think i went for an hour and a half and every single Friday i'd run home from school put my traders on and run back to the cricket club and mom would go to the bar and

she met some friends there and i fell in love with cricket perfect then you end up a world Cup winner, perfect. It was a crazy accident, is what it was. Not a bad one. I never won the World Cup. I never won the World Cup, Alex, just if you've not done your research. Well, I did do my research, and I've found a great story. So you got an ODI 100.

Just as the press, we're all bagging you're saying, you know, it's probably time to leave. Like, is it time to go? You got 100, and you pointed and held three fingers up at the Skybox. How was that then six months later when you started working with? It was, it was, yeah, I did my, I was not 20 knots out, and I was rubbish at whiteball cricket, and I was rubbish at three, and I've never got 100, and I've decided if I get 100, because it wasn't just the Skybox, it was one of your colleagues as well, both them, Willis and Agnew, and I thought they were constantly on me, rightly constantly, I do the same now with the various players,

and you'd go back to your room and watch Bob absolutely nail me on the verge, it. And I just thought, if I get to hunger, I'm going to stick three fingers up at and Fletcher thought it was two fingers, three fingers up at them. And I did. And then we went, you know, which is great if you go and win the game. And then we lost the game as well. You know, listen, I've always got on with beefy and Bob. It was one, you know, imagine my dream. You talk about Freddie or meeting your heroes or whatever. I was so sad at uni. I had like, this is how sad I am. I had a picture. of like Gower up on my wall.

Gawr was my childhood hero. So there, you know, both of them is arguably the greatest cricketer England have ever produced. Well, you know, England has ever produced. And he's suddenly in a skybox. And David Gower is asking you questions about batting, you know, probably the most exquisite batsman that's ever played the game. And he's asking you questions about batting. So it was a surreal moment.

And I was lucky, you know, I've known Athens since England's schoolboys, under 11. Bumble was our magnificent coach. So it's just like being in a team again. The hardest bit, I don't know how you found it. You know, is when you leave a team, it is, you know, you miss that. That's what you miss is being in that environment. And you try and create a new team. And I'm sure that's what you've done with the BBC, although you never invite me into your little box next door. That's what we try and do at Sky. Well, we actually invited you to our barbecue the other night. And actually, I've got my phone here, and it was like, I'm still waiting for that message

because our cameraman, our Australian cameraman, was like, as I was sat with him, got a text from Lydia saying, please, could you come to our barbecue on the beach? And I was literally waiting by my phone. I'm sure those two who I'm doing a podcast for, I'm sure eventually I will get some kind of text saying come to the barbecue, NAS, it never happened. I think that message was, please invite everyone. everybody else we don't have everybody's numbers it must be hard to be looking at your phone though when you're ignoring people on the beach moving moving back into actual serious talk um now so of

everyone that you captained who are you taking responsibility for that you debuted so who you you know who secretly are you like that the only reason they're successful is because i gave them a chance i wouldn't take credit for anyone but the one i've always had a soft spot for is jimmy you know jimmy anderson we were our usual 11 days ashes loss usual white ball series after that where everyone is just snapping in half got flint off all our bowlers we're trying to pick a world cup squad a little bit like you lot actually in this winter we hadn't we hadn't won a game in australia and we're trying to pick a world cup squad sorry to put that in um and um there's that suddenly someone said i don't know who it was there's this lad in lancashire

he's played a few games he's come from burnley i've seen him in the second team okay this is looking good for a world cup squad um like called jimmy anderson and we called him up to australia and within two minutes of watching jimmy bowl in the net it was oh my gosh we found one here natural you know english bowling can be a bit coached and overcoached jimmy Anderson was like a young Pakistan bowler, raw, natural, wrist-cision, swing out in. And it was like, and he played and he played that famous game at Newlands, setting up Mohammed Yusuf with that full swinging delivery, he got five. And Jimmy always takes this the wrong way when I talk about Jimmy and capning, Jimmy, because in those days, Jimmy used to say nothing, zero, absolutely.

So I'd be at mid-off. So if you're captaining golf, you could play them easy, like you two have played me. You can just say the odd thing here and there and Goughy would react to it. I could say things to Jimmy and Jimmy would just blank me completely. It's like, am I speaking a different language? It's like, Jimmy, you know how we're going to set up whoever, you know, Herschel Gibbs? And he'd be like, give me the ball, mate. I know what I'm doing sort of thing. And he just, he was incredible. Like, I should have bowled him in Port Elizabeth. I did bowl him in Port Elizabeth and we lost the game. And he was playing pool with Ian Blackwell. And I went up to Jimmy and I said, look, sorry, I put you probably under a bit of pressure there.

Maybe could have gone caddy, but I really backed you, apologies. And he just looked at me and just played another pool shot and sunk the black and walked off sort of thing. So ever since, I've just loved the way Jimmy's career has flourished and gone from strength to strength, you know, just giving someone their first cap at Lords to where he is now. He's just such a wonderful ball. Full responsibility, though. Yeah, take it.

I'd accept that responsibility. Oh, yeah. Jimmy, Jimmy's the man that the work that him and Brody have done behind the scenes to get themselves fit and still playing after all these years. And the ups and downs, Jimmy had those stress fractures and back issues and didn't play in 2005. So as you two know, it's not what we see on screen. It's all the stuff you do behind the scenes that is the work that is blooming hard and they do it day in, day out. before we go into some stories that Hendo sent us for you, Nass. Oh my gosh, it should not be your go-to person. What has been your standout moment in your career, the one that you look back on and you're really proud of? Obviously, our captain in England, you know, when you walk out onto a field and, you know,

the Barmy army is singing Nasr Hussein's Barmy army and the bloke on the Tanoi's going, and now leading out England is Nassau Hussein. It is, however many times you do it, it is surreal and you don't realize it until the day it's not there anymore and you're walking out and the Barmy Army is singing Michael Vaughn's Barmy Army and Michael Vaughn leading out England. It is in equal measure the best thing and the worst thing because obviously we used to lose a lot of games, but it was the best thing I ever did really. I so enjoyed it trying to lead people on a personal thing, obviously the 200 against Australia. with Thorpey, one of my best mates, probably my only mate in the team at the other end, winning that game as well, getting a double hundred and a big partnership with Thorpee,

winning in Karachi. I was watching that Karachi test the other day, singing who let the, I don't know why we were singing who let the dogs out, probably a song before your time, you two, but we were singing that in the dressing room. So there were great moments, winning in Sri Lanka that winter, touring India, you know, flying my dad all the way back to Chennai. They gave me and my dad Henri membership at the Cheppock Stadium and my dad had flown all the way to Madrasen back and I got one I think

that day, but he saw me captaining England out there on his home ground. So there were lots of them. There was obviously disappointments. I was a sort of cricket. I don't know what you two are like, but I literally played Essex under 11s tried to play under 12s, under 13s, under 15s. I'd look how Athus was doing, Ramps was

doing, Thorpey was doing and before you know it, Graham Goochie tapping you on the shoulder going, will you come to the Caribbean? And I'm like, I get on really well with you, Grey, but I don't really want to go on holiday with you, Caribbean. It's like, no, we're going to go play the West Indies.

Oh, great, you know, we're going to play the West Indies, and then you're captain in England. So these things suddenly happen, and I'm pleased they did. I found that. And I've also found it, I found it really weird that when you're not then part of that England side,

that it's almost like you were never there. So they just carry on without you. And that's the thing I found really hard. is it's almost like they were like, okay, she's gone, replaced with this person, we'll carry on in our own little bubble. And that's something you have to get used to. Absolutely. And that's why, you know, sometimes the sports people and cricketers, it can be difficult on retirement or whatever. And you two have been very, very smart and switched on to make sure there is something else. And that, again, I would advise cricketers

coming towards the end of their career to make sure, because it is a big, you know, I was, what, 34, and, you know, some careers go on a lot longer. So you're left with that massive void to fill. Right, a little bit of fun. Not that we've not had any fun with you in the last half now. No, I've been, like I said, I've got my little person that I can speak to now that I can get some stories off. And can you please explain to me and Alex and our listeners, something that happened to you when you were playing golf with Ian Wuznham and Ian Botham in Barbados?

you have got your spies out there it makes like we have a great life you know playing golf I mean just drop in a few more names in there please both them and Woosnam and all the others I was driving down the 18th in a buggy not playing particularly well wanting the round to end about three hours before it did

because you're playing with Bifi who just smashes it a million wild miles and you know master's winner Ian Woosnam and I as per usual had hacked it left onto the first fairway

and so just wishing to get to the clubhouse as quickly as possible I was put my foot to the pedal and happened to drive into a bunker which I hadn't seen because I was going the wrong way I had Ian Woosnam in the buggy with me who looked at me as if to say

what the heck of I and then they got Wuzon and both of them trying to push this golf buggy out of the first whole bunker at Royal Westmoreland. I wish that the ground had just swallowed me up. It was probably the worst day of my life. Thanks for bringing that up, Crossie. Brilliant.

We did ask you what your best moment in cricket was. So it's only fair we asked what your worst moment in life is. I'm a bad golfer. Thank you. He also let us into a little secret. So me and I'll do a little bit on this podcast called the LBW section, which is what you, it's called Little Bit Weird. So it's something that you do that you don't realize is weird

until someone else tells you that it's weird. And he says that you wear your cap in a restaurant and he put times 238 next to that. So it's obviously something that you do frequently. When you've got no barnet like me, like in here now watching, I've got my cap on, isn't I? So when you've got no barnet and, you know, you're out, so I do, I get told off a lot,

either by the waiter or something, can you take your cap off, please? Or by the Sky Commentary Team, they give me a lot of rubbish. about it so you've obviously got that from from i do know i didn't do that what's the two things you two do that are weird then apart from the obvious before we go on to our words i saw you in a restaurant in where were we i don't know done eden and you were sat there and your cap being like nobody else who i have got my cap on i was just trying not to be noticed by you to be honest come on what is your this is a massive sample size what's your weird then so me and I live together just before we came over here and she realized that I always leave my

trainers on when I'm in the house, which is something I've learnt from my dad, but she said that that's weird, which I never thought was strange, but I always have trainers on in the house. That is weird. Sweaty feet or what? And it's only a 40-minute podcast, so we can't go into heart be weird, surely. And then I get into the bath before, like, as in, I'd turn the tap on and sit in an empty bath while it's running. It's that northern thing? I don't know. I don't know. We just had to save water in Manchester. Nass, before we let you go, you've seen this England side play for a number of years.

They're having a bit of a shit time, but they've got their first win on board. Not anymore. Yeah, they've got their first win. They've turned up the other day, yeah. Yeah, what is your advice to Crossie for the rest of this World Cup? Pitch it up for a start.

That's what they did the other day. someone has told every one of their bowlers, apart from Crossy, that they're all got to bang it in halfway down. And if you look at the tournament so far, people who have pitched it up have got the wickets. So go to your plan B a little bit later than they are doing. They're going to it a little bit early. And feel like the way they did the other day

and realize how good they are. They could easily, and they know this, they could easily go on a run here. They have been the side that have pushed Australia closer than anyone else. in this tournament. And in fact, if someone had saved with Crossy and she wasn't unlucky getting run out the way she did in Dunedin, they could have won that one as well.

So they can still win this thing. They just got to realize that how good that. And the fielding, field like they did the other day, not Dunedin. Dunedin wasn't what we've seen from England. That 100 and the way the fielding has come on from the women's team has been brilliant. So field like they did the other day. and they're still, they know it, they're still in this thing. I'll pass that on.

I'll make sure everyone listens to this episode now. Instead of the team, really. Can you take out the pitch the ball up thing? Please don't show that to Bruntie because she scares me as well. She scares me. I wouldn't dare say anything to her. NASA has pitched you up, your lunatic. Nash, you've been brilliant.

Sorry it's taken 10 years to get you on a podcast that we started only two years ago. but we really appreciate you coming on. Not a problem. I look forward to you, just completely ignoring me now for the rest of my life. Now you've completely used me for the last 45 minutes. Thanks. Yeah, that's it. I can block you on Twitter again now.

Thanks, Nas. Thank you very much, Ness. That's all right. What a great human. Very, very funny, isn't it? Very, like, sly funny. Like, I love the fact that it feels like he can just abuse us. Well, we were writing our questions out last night in preparation and we were like, can we say this? Would we say this with other guests? It's NASA has saying, can we abuse him? We weren't sure. So we went on the safer side. But then as we got into it, we did realize that we could abuse him as well.

Does this class as friends now, do you reckon? Are we colleagues or are we friends? I'm going to say friends. I mean, it sounds like he wants an invite for a drink or something, so we can do that. I feel like you should just invite him to everything now just like even if you're going down to read cricket club with your mates just be like hi nice just off out with the girls do you want to come hi nice June 6th here that's the date and we are going for a net you fancy it or we're going to go for a coffee

got my mate's baby showered you want to come no he was brilliant and we were a bit nervous because we feel like he's like the first we didn't do the quiz that the nobles quiz because we thought he just wouldn't appreciate it whatsoever yeah oh he's just message me what do you say okay thanks for having me on oh bless him i'm gonna reply me like now can we redo it was rubbish right crossy you've got cricket training this has to be 40 minutes good look play straight be great ball straight be great you are great

thank you very much and i will see you at eden park yes i don't forget to know ballers on Don't forget to No Ballers on No Bowlspodcast at BBC.com.com. Nobourspodcast at BBC.co.com. It's so good. They've said it twice. Yes. This has been our best Wi-Fi yet, I think.

Yeah, me too. And you're a four-minute walkaway, so I might bump into you. Maybe. I'll be walking the other way, like NASA with my head down. Brilliant. Love you, bye. Love you, bye.

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