Test Match Special - No Balls: The Cricket Podcast - World Cup frustration and a chat with an England legend

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

After a tough start to the World Cup, England bowler Kate Cross and Alex Hartley chat through what needs to change. Plus, former teammate Lydia Greenway joins the pod.

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It's what England we're looking for. Partly falls down. the track comes scoring this time she connects it's either six or out it's six but it's six but we're on the and welcome back to

no balls of cricket podcast and it's still me Alex Hartley and it's still you Kate Cross but we're on the phone because the Wi-Fi is so fast this is the third time we've tried to record this.

We're actually only 500 metres down the road from each other, but because of COVID and bubbles and all that, we're not led near each other, and we've had to go old school and ring each other. I don't know how we've just got through our interview with Lydia Greenway without it freezing. No, me neither. Maybe the power of Lydia made it all okay.

Maybe, because, Crossy, we're currently like, you are, we're literally on the phone, I can't see you, I'm staring at the thing that says Kate Cross, one minute 50. Well, I'm actually looking out of my window onto the beach in Mount Manganoi, so it's probably a bit better for me. Oh, yeah, nice. I'll do the same because we're on the same road. Yeah, this is mad. How are you doing? I'm not too bad, thank you. I'm better than yesterday for the third time if you've not heard this story. But I had a bad day yesterday. I was so tired. I went to sleep early and I'm alive and kicking. The good news is we managed to get four

minutes of you talking about how tired you were yesterday into one minute 14 so that's actually a bonus yeah win win condensed it how are you yeah I'm all right thanks I'm all right are you sure yes I am um yes okay good because it's been um we've got we've got to talk about the World Cup crossy yeah I know we do oh this is actually the first time I've not dreaded dreaded is too strong a word but I've not really looked forward to this chat So I haven't either because am I going to have to like interview you and you're going to have to like tell me the answers and it's just not going to be nice.

Yeah, I mean let's just let's get stuck into it. Okay. Number one, how's the team morale? Are you all okay? Yeah, do you know what? Obviously we've not started this tournament well at all. We've lost our first two games and we've got a lot of hard work to do now. This sounds very BBC interview, doesn't it?

We've got a lot of hard work to do now. But I think it's very easy in tournament cricket when you have lost that you forget all the good things that you've done. And I think we can't forget how close we were to be in Australia in that opening game, you know, nearly chased down 300 and 11. Yeah, you do forget that. Yeah, and I think because we were definitely nowhere near our best against the West Indies, it kind of gets swept up in the fact that everything felt, you know, really doom and gloom.

But we didn't play good cricket against the West Indies. and we still nearly won? Yeah. And it does get forgotten quickly. I guess that I reckon the frustration from a fan point of view is just keep getting bowled out, and keep getting bowled out for less than 140, and it's just, it's tough.

Who got bawled out for less than 140? 240 is what I meant. I was going to say, I don't know who you're watching, but that wasn't us. Yeah, I'm no longer supporting them. I'm supporting someone else. Okay. Are you sure he's going to meet me?

No, Binns haven't got that bad. I meant 240. Yeah. Well, I think I disagree with that as well because we got two, nearly got 300 in the first game and then we were only chasing 220 against the West Indies.

Yeah, we got bowled out. Yeah, but we're not. 240, I don't think is fair. I don't think that's been our frustration in this tournament. Our frustration as a team has been our bowling and our field. which actually coming into the tournament was our strongest suit.

Well, both of them were our strongest suit. So I think we've been really frustrated that it's things that we can control. Like our number of wides that we bowling is just so unlike us as the bowling unit. So many five, lots of wides and things like that. They're costing us. You know, we lost the first game by 11, 12 runs and we bowled 24 wides. We lost the West Indies game by seven runs and we bowled 26 wides. Yeah, the wides is not like any of you at all.

is it like i mean heather did say that it's windy um but does that really make a difference um well yeah it does because it obviously affects as a bowler you've got you've got a lot more to take into consideration when it when it is windy um but i actually i don't know what i can put that down to if i'm being completely honest because we've not trained any differently um the only thing that is completely different is we've been away for nine weeks now and we've never done a tour this long so i don't know whether a bit of fatigue's coming in or, or could that, it's not an excuse because we shouldn't excuse how poor we've been in the field. Like we dropped 12 chances against the West Indies.

You're never going to win games if you drop in 12 chances. 12? Yeah. Oh, we've written five. I've got five. Or maybe we created 12 chances. Oh, okay. Yeah.

I mean, there was five drop catches, but I guess what, the England side that we all know and love normally takes those. And like, you take that first ball and they're going. game and you're in front straight away. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the beauty of it is that we now, we can't falter now. Like we have to be at our best. And that's not a nice place to be when you're only two games into a tournament. But there's still a lot of cricket to be played. Like it's not all doom and gloom. We're not out of the tournament. You know, we can still qualify. So I think it's just

we've got to make sure we put things right, but do it quickly. Yeah. I mean, people that have written England off. I mean, yes, you've had a really tough run of games. You've still got a tough run of games. But I genuinely still think that we're going to make the semifinals because we are the second best team in the world. Things just haven't gone right, which can happen. And unfortunately in world tournaments, it's frustrating because you have to play your best in every game and we just haven't done. Yeah. And again, I said that about the ashes, but we haven't played our best cricket yet. And this group is a much better team than we're showing at the minute. But like I said, that we lost to the West Indies

we didn't play a good cricket but we lost by seven runs you know we were still able to nearly chase that down even when we were 150 for eight so there's so much fight in this dressing room and that's a real positive thing for us to take forward as well I keep saying on comms

I genuinely believe England have got the best batting 11 in the world and someone messaged me saying have you been taking drugs I was like no I genuinely believe because you're coming in at 10 and you're 11, we have got the best batting 11 in the world. We're just not performing.

Yeah, yeah. And it's just frustrating, isn't it? Honestly, Al, I was so, so gutted after the West Indies game. I still can't quite get my emotions right. Like, I'm still having moments where I'm like, get you back down and then get really annoyed at myself and not get my back down in time. Oh, Crossie, that is not your fault. It's not Sophie's fault.

That's just so unlucky. No, I know. I'm not blaming anyone. It's just like that moment of just being. like it could have been just so different had little things gone our way because like me and Sophie genuinely found that it wasn't easy in the respect that it's you know it's not our role in the team to be doing getting a 50 run partnership but it felt quite easy to score runs and we were so ahead of the rate that it felt like it was it was doable it was so doable and then we got down to

needing less than 10 I was like wow we've done all the hard work like we've got ourselves into a position where we can win and then something like that happens and you just want to to curl up in a ball and cry. Oh, I know, I can imagine. But I want to talk about how great you and Sof were throughout that whole West Indies game. I mean, Self got three wickets in and over and completely changed the game. But before Sov came on, I said, today is a day for Crossy, just to keep things simple, slow the run rate down and the wickets will come.

What happened? Exactly that. Yeah, me and Soph were really aware of that, actually, because we bowl in tandem quite a lot together and we always joke or like when we're on the pitch we always say oh it's length's turn to come and have a ball now and like we generally do that we try and slow the run rate down and create chances where we can and it really you could feel it there was something happening like we managed to keep D dot like really really we slowed her run right down completely and then that starved Haley of the strike so we knew something was going to happen and

then that just kind of accumulated in that over where sov took two for and Danny got that really good run out. So it just goes to show that's the kind of bowling unit we are. We kind of build pressure and then that's how we take our wickets. I mean, to get dotting Matthews and Taylor in one over is like what dreams are made of. Completely. Yeah, it was. And it really felt like the momentum shifted then. And that obviously credit to West Indies, they had that brilliant partnership towards the back end that we just couldn't break. It didn't feel like we did a lot wrong. It felt like they just played simple cricket and managed to get themselves up to a defendable total.

They played boring cricket for such a long time as well. It was like, we've seen a new West Indies in this competition, but that partnership in the middle was like the old West Indies, but it also worked for them. Well, that's ironically, all we needed to do, because that's the partnership that me and Soph had was boring cricket. Literally, we didn't really take risks. We just played boring cricket and milked the sweepers and hit a bad ball if it came to us.

So that was ironically all that was needed at that stage. So Sophie played. a slog sweep and got an inside edge which went down for four what did you say to her at that moment good shot was that the one off d dot yeah yeah so all the way through it we were just talking like we were quite switched on actually like we were talking about how we get our runs how we just chip away don't look at it as needing 70 odd runs look at five at a time that kind of thing and We just did it in a really chilled manner and we just said all we've got to do is play strong shots, that's it.

And then so, the worst one for me was when she slog swept, I think it might have been Haley down to long on and it just fell short of the fielder and we managed to scamper a single. But you actually ran into her at the other end. She didn't move. Well, I turned around and watched to see if this girl caught it, realized it was going to fall short.

So I've obviously run to get through. And as I've looked up and I'm three quarters the way down the pitch, Sophie's still in a crease. So I was like, Sophie, what are you doing? I was like, run. So Sophie then gets down there. And then I don't know if it got, I don't know if it was seen on TV, but I pointed at her, got my finger out. And I was like, Sophie, don't be a dick. And she just started laughing. She just started laughing. And she came up to me at the end of the and she's like, okay, don't be a dick. And that's how we got through it then. It was just don't be a dick. Oh, I love that. So I got asked like what they'll be talking about.

And I was like, honestly, when they play for Thunder, they talk about the fact that we had a couple of Prosecos the night before. But they can't do that when they're playing for England. So they're probably just being like, keep it simple. What do you want for tea? Do you know what? I actually, when I back with Sophie, it's the most cricket chat that we have. And I think we're really good for each other

because we've had a few partnerships for Thunder and, you know, old Thunder KSL where we've been in those situations and we've kind of had to have a bit of a revival at the end. end. And me and her are really good for each other because we know each other's strengths and we know how to get the best out of each other. So we always talk about cricket and we always talk about the best options to have. Like she was saying to me, she was really, she didn't like facing Stefani because it was so slow and wide. So I was like, right, well, you just get off strike. You know you strong off the back foot. Hit her into the covers and then I'll try and do

the same. And we were, we were very crickety. I would like to say mature. We're very mature in that situation. Well, that's good because you're both very mature people. But yeah, I did have to get the finger out and tell her not, not to be a dick. Sophie, don't be a dick. I'm going to keep that one. I'm going to use it. She said as well, you know, the review that I've, off Mohammed that I've reviewed, the LB that I reviewed. Yeah, were you going to review that? Because it was almost like, let's try. So, well, I knew that I needed to, because I was really hopeful, but obviously you go and have a chat with your partner and I said to her I said do you think it's gone down because I think I was stood on middle and I think the shot that I played indicated it was going down leg

so I was like I think I might get away with it but Sophie was just repeating everything that I said so I was like do you think it went down leg and she go do you think it well I don't know what do you I was like I think where did it hit you on the pad I hit the inside pad right did it hit your inside right so it was just a bit of a shambles so I was like I'm just going to review it and then obviously got away with it but then right at the end when it was given not out so when please will you tell everyone that I said it was going down? I was like, absolutely not. Basically, Soph was like, I have no clue, just go for it.

Yeah, well, we had to at that point, and obviously we managed to keep the review, which would have been important if we'd have needed it, ashes, headingly-esque style later on. It gave me great pleasure because you were actually given out in a very, very similar fashion at the Junction Over and the Ashes, but you'd run out of reviews. Yes. So I was like, review it, review it, review it. Yeah. But, yeah, it was tough one because I loved batting,

and I really enjoyed what me and Sof did and obviously to have the 50-run partnership for England. It was pretty special, but you just can't enjoy it as much because we didn't get the win. So, yeah, it's such a shame. I was going through my notes while you were out there, and I was like, these are my notes. So I've got Kate Cross, right on, medium-paced bowler,

nips it around, can swing the ball, and then not a tail ender. yeah well obviously so they were like why have you got that i was like because i got told off so since i got the promotion to 10 i've had a duck and not batted so i was like i really need to prove myself here so i was like really determined and i cannot tell you how many times the little man on my shoulder told me to ramp and i was like no play strong shots through to the covers and i said to myself if we need four to win i'll let myself ramp and apparently i came off the pitch and H told me that Heather had said the same thing.

Everyone was like saying ramps on. And Heather had said, no, she's only allowed to ramp when there's four left. So me and the captain actually had very similar thought processes, which is nice. I love that. Before we bring in this guest, we've been working with Mel Jones, and she said, why does Crossie tie her hair up so much? So I told the story of the fact that you keep bubbles in your pocket because in your pocket you think they look like a condom.

No, I keep them in my sock because. Yes. If I put them in my pocket, they could look like something else. I got my words all muddled up. But obviously couldn't say that on air, so I'm saying it on the podcast. So she texted me when you went out to bat saying, come on the condoms. Oh, that is not a nickname that I want associated with me. Oh, God.

It was just a what-if day, wasn't it? It was just so much of it. I got on the bus afterwards, and it was obviously a very quiet bus. and I just thought the difference between this bus being a great one or a sad one was seven runs like that is it yeah I know

it's tiny margins in World Cup cricket and that's the thing and all in good need is a win because once you get that win and you remember how to win you'll be fine you're the second best team in the world

you can win this competition yeah yeah we just like you said we just we just need that win I think I saw an interview Heather did where she said, we've kind of just forgotten how to win. And it's those tiny pressure moments that you've really got to nail in tournaments like this

because you don't get that second chance. It's not like a series where you can come back and win it 2-1 or 3-1, whatever. You know, you've got to win the games when they're in front of you. Yeah, right. Enough of that. I feel like it's been really interviewing. I'm sorry. That's all right.

Shall we bring in our guest? Yes, let's. I'm very excited with this one. Right, ladies and gents, it's my turn to introduce our very special guest this week. We've been lacking in guests recently, but I'm very pleased to announce that we've got the one, the only. Lydia Greenway on the podcast. Welcome to Nobles, Lid. Thanks, ladies. Lovely to be here. Nice to see you both. Well, we eventually got this sorted because Crossy had a bit of a stinker last night, didn't show up.

So that was a shocker. So I didn't actually think we were ever going to do this. episode this week. Of course, he was being a diva. Yeah, and then this morning, I think Al forgot to send the link to the Zoom, so you didn't even know that we were going to be on this morning. So it's all been a bit of a shambles in true Nobles, podcast fashion. But, Lid, to start us off, where are you at the minute, what you're up to,

why are you in a hotel room? So I'm currently in Hamilton, so traveled here yesterday after being in Dunedin, obviously covering your game. so yeah I had a travel day yesterday now back in Hamilton which is pretty sleepy to be honest

I thought Dunedin was sleepy but yeah I mean there's nothing against Hamilton it's a lovely place I've just been down to the lake and had a little run so yeah just got a prep day today

for the game tomorrow West Indies India oh nice you've got a nice little day off today I think we've got South Africa and Pakistan today is it I don't even know anymore are you covering the game yeah yeah

so you're out here we're doing a bit are you doing a bit for Sky yeah so doing working for the ICC so doing like the host feed stuff commentating and then yeah a bit with the BBC

which is always good fun and then some stuff for Sky as well so yeah I'm getting around a bit yeah Lid you're really selling yourself out there are you enjoying it yeah it's good it's really good fun And it's, yeah, I think the best thing about it is just when you're working on the women's stuff,

you see so many familiar faces. When I got to Hamilton the other day, I bumped into Claire Taylor, the bowler, also known as Rompter. She was just in a lift randomly. And I was like, oh, hi, Romp's. She's like, oh, right. She's doing some anti-corruption stuff over here. But, no, it's good. It's, yeah, and obviously working with Al and, and, you know,

Henry and Stefan as well. It's good fun. It was a bit of a task to get lids on the podcast because you know what I'm like, I can't ask people to come on. I get really nervous. So I asked her while we were on the radio, so she couldn't say no.

Yeah, bearing in mind we'd been out for dinner the night before. Do you know why? It's because I've been asked to go on podcast before and you feel like you can't say no. And I don't want to be that podcast that people are like, oh, I probably should, but I don't really want to do. well crossy you asked as well yeah we were we were in deneem weren't we or june as sophia duncly thinks it's called and um i was coming out of the nets and i spotted lid and i was

like right i just need to ask because we need a guess this week because we've not organized one again but this was the true test was you turned up last night and we weren't there and you've come back so you do want to come on well oh yeah absolutely it's a privilege to be asked I listened to your one the other day with Nat and Nunny. Oh, they were real. That was good fun. Just Nunny, if you could be inside of a person's head for a day, like I would love to be inside her head.

Same. Yeah. Especially when she's gone for 10 and over. But the thought of that also really petrifies me, 24 hours inside Catherine Brunt's head. Because it made me laugh when you were, talking about dropping catches off her bowling as well because I've been there so I can completely appreciate how everyone feels. I think I dropped her 100th ODI wicket, not once, but twice.

No, you didn't. Yeah. That's one of our questions later on. Like, have you ever dropped to catch off Catherine Brunt? I'm sorry, I've gone in a bit early there. But yeah, we were in South Africa and I was fielding that point and it just came straight to me like real regulation and it's just dropped out and I didn't even look just look down turn around and don't look did you hear anything uh I no like I've heard on occasions Catherine Brunt if some I have heard when someone's dropped to catch of her bowling she crouched down and she screamed, why me, like, really loud. I think that might have been Mount Manganoi when we were here in 2015

because I think I remember Becky Grundy running around at third man to stop a ball off of Catherine and it went under her. She like Sydney Harbour bridged it and it went under her before and Brunty screamed, why me? Yeah, that's, oh my God, yes, crossy, that was it. So we're back in, we're actually back in the mount as well. so it all came flooding back to me yesterday when we arrived. Yeah, yeah, not good times.

Oh, God. I mean, well, the reason we wanted to ask that question was because you were quite famous in your career for being one of the world's best fielders at the time. And we kind of wanted to ask, like, what was, was that something that you were aware of? Was it something that you, like, kind of prided yourself in? Or was that just something that happened naturally and you're very good athlete? game awareness, that kind of thing. Yeah, I think just growing up, well, like it, like probably all of us,

like I think just play a lot of different sports. So I played a lot of hockey, football, and I think, and a bit of gymnastics as well in fun of that. I just think a bit of a random one and a bit of a netball. And I think that just helps, like, develop your skills and give you, gives you that foundation. But I just really enjoyed it, to be honest. I remember when I was quite young

my dad and I would just go over the park and he'd just have a tennis racket and a tennis ball and literally I remember he would just launch these catches up and you could barely see the tennis ball but I used to think it was great fun and yeah obviously I wasn't very good at bowling so I thought right I need to find a way to contribute to the team by working on my field in but yeah I just loved it

and I think it's, yeah, for youngsters, I always just try and tell them that it's a really fun way that you can try and influence the game and keep engaged with what's going on. But yeah, don't drop a catch off, Catherine. You hear a lot of stories about people going to their park to bat and bowl with their parents and whatnot, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say,

yeah, my dad used to just whack balls at me and I loved it. Yeah, honestly, I remember we used to have competition, so got a brother and a sister, and me and my brother are close in age so he's a year younger than me and he was a very good sports person that he played a bit of semi-pro football so we were always very competitive

and in the back garden in the evenings we would just have a competition you'd have 10 catches and it was whoever caught the most catches one but then if it was just say me with my dad if I dropped a catch I'd go back down to naught and you'd just be there until it's dark because, you know, he'd then hit the 10th one that bit harder

and it would just pop out and you'd be absolutely fuming. So, yeah, it's, yeah, I just, yeah, I just enjoyed fielding. Did you, did you know you were the world's best fielder throughout your career? No, because I don't, I don't know if I was. I think, like, I looked at who else was around when I was fielding, like someone like Sarah McLaughen was unbelievable, like how quick she was across the ground. like she was able to anticipate things so well and I played with her at the Vipers actually

in the first couple of years of the Kia Super League and like she was so quick and she was a good diver as well and like people like Rachel Haynes I just think there's just so many there were so many good fielders around so yeah I definitely wouldn't say I was I particularly remember you being really good at cow

I remember you kind of change in what boundary fielding looked like in the women's game. And I can't remember where you were playing. I think it was an English summer, but there was that one specific one where the ball was already off the pitch, but you managed to somehow scoop it back. And in the freeze frame of where they were checking whether it had gone before or not, you literally folded yourself like a pretzel and managed to get it back. And it was like the first time that women were doing things like that on the boundary.

And I just remember that that was your, you kind of drove the team to be better and to like drive the standards at that time, which I think was actually, it was probably the time where we were really changing into that professional era of women's cricket, wasn't it? Yeah, I think so. Like, I look at the way that the girls move now. And I think like a big shift has been the strength and condition inside of it. I think when we were sort of in that semi-pro and even before that when we were a complete amateur, I think it's hard to reach your full potential when you didn't have that S&S.

support but I see the way that the girls move now is it's so efficient and it's so like explosive and powerful and there are only things that you can develop when you've got the time like it's all well and good playing extra sports when you're younger and stuff like that to develop you but until you have that real like sports science and medicine support I don't think players can reach their full potential and I guess like you still see that now like if teams like Pakistan and Bangladesh had that S&C support, like their ceiling, it could be so, you know, they haven't reached their potential yet

whereas I think when you look at like you guys move and the Aussies and obviously Dandra Dottings catch the other day, it's ridiculous. So yeah, I think the support helps as well. Definitely. I'm just saying, I'm going to say this. I think Dedi's catch is the best I've ever seen a woman take. Yeah.

are comfortably someone someone in our dugout said that harling dale's the the bounty catch and dive back in one was better and i was like i genuinely don't think it was i think dd's if i know we shouldn't compare and we often try not to but i think if a man took that catch it would be one of the best in the world as well yeah i completely agree like when you watch it on slow mo like she's pushed off on her left leg which is her non-dominant and she's got like the most amount of power to cover that distance and and then with her left hand as well. Like she pushed her body to the max

in terms of that one movement and then to keep it in her hand on the landing. Yeah. I think we were in the comms box at the same time, then we all just went mad. I know, yeah, we did. I think who was, I can't remember who was leading. But it's moments like that you forget to commentate

on what's happening because you're just so surprised at what's happened. Well, they're the best moments actually to listen to because they're when you get people's genuine reaction to what they've just seen. especially in a moment like that, which doesn't happen a lot in the women's game. I think they're really special to be involved in. Yeah. Lids, one of the questions we had for you, how did you find, so you went from being like amateur semi-pro to professional?

How did you find that transition? Was it something that you found quite easy or was it something you had to get used to? Yeah, I think because it was a gradual process. It was probably like just something that was, you could adapt to it, I think. So when I first started playing, like similar to people like Lottie who was around, you know, a while before me, so she would have experienced even more so. But when you aren't paid to play, you just have that passion, like you're motivated because you just love the game. And you just have to work through it. Like you have different challenges to what the professionals have now.

Like the challenges back then were trying to fit in all your training around your work and everything. thing like that. Like I remember, I used to have to drive to Guildford a couple of times a week. My dad would take me there to work with Mark Lane, who used to coach the women's team to work with him. And you just had to find a way, really. And then obviously when you get a bit more support, I remember, I think it was lottery funding came in. Yeah, that rings a bell, yeah. Yeah, so the first bit of money we got, I think it was like £400 a month. And at that time, I think a few of us had gone over to Australia to try and develop our game that way. So we'd have like a club season over there, which was, you know, a great opportunity.

But we weren't really living off much. So like me, I think it was me, Jenny Gunn and Beth Morgan, we all shared a place out there. But you've got some stories from that. They call it the Heathrow injection when you leave, you come back a bit bigger. But we had a good time. But yeah, obviously now it's much different and much more different. And I think it's just like becoming professional. You just get that extra time.

But I don't envy. I think the challenges that you guys have now are, you know, they're pretty tough. I think social media, the scrutiny that you're under, I think is just a whole added dimension. And it's all your eggs in one basket as well. I don't know how you guys feel about it. but I guess it can sometimes be hard to find that balance. It certainly feels like that at the moment, which when you're in a World Cup,

obviously all your focus and energy is going into games and your time out here and literally everything is focused around cricket. And then we've obviously not started this tournament very well. And I was speaking to someone back home the other day and they just put it all into perspective for me saying, cross, you know there was a war going on at the minute. And like it's really,

hard to pull yourself out of those moments when all your focus is cricket, which I think we're in a really weird, like, not phase, I think just this tour has been a bit strange for us in that regard. So, yeah, there is kind of that, like, that consuming nature of it at the minute, but you'd still have to find your ground in and, like, you know, see the bigger picture as well. Yeah, yeah. Because I guess it's the expectations as well, because I remember when we got made professional, what was it, 2014. Yeah. More like the media thought we should have no excuse not to be world beaters

within that respect to the week. We lost to India, didn't we? Yeah. You're not forgetting when you were first professionally, it wasn't a lot of money either. No, I know, that's, and that's sometimes one of my bug there's. I think you have to be careful with how you use the word professional because suddenly people assume you're living very comfortably and you haven't got a worry in.

the world but that's not always the case especially if you live in london it's expensive i remember my my first contract that i signed in 2014 was worth 10 000 pound and that was me being a professional cricketer and i remember the media like like you're saying they expected you to be brilliant overnight but actually the the environment didn't change and the effort and the time that all the girls were putting in because i i thought everyone was very professional before they were professional when they weren't being paid as professionals um but yeah that i think that's the the side that people don't see and that the media don't get either. Yeah.

It feels like it's got much better now, obviously, with the contracts and things, which is obviously good. But, I mean, cricket's still cricket. It's still a hard game to be the world's best at. Everyone goes through ups and downs as well. You've kind of had a career of two halves after cricket, haven't you?

You've kind of gone, went into coaching initially. You set up your own coaching business. Are you still doing a bit of that? when you can. Yeah, yeah, we're still doing that. So we do a lot of, like, teacher training in schools and run coaching camps and stuff. So, yeah, it's really good fun, actually, because you sort of, you see what's going on at the grassroots level of the game in schools and clubs, which is nice. And that's coaching. Cricket for girls. So yeah, so we got two, so we got cricket for girls and the girls cricket club. So cricket for girls is like

working with schools helping develop teachers and then the girls cricket club is for like young players who might not feel that they've got their community yet so a lot of girls still have to play with the boys and so like the girls cricket club is just where they can come along and they can play with their own peers and we do a lot of stuff online so yeah it's all good fun and yeah it's nice working with the girls like

we've got an advisory board and they're sort of 11 to 18 year olds and we said right who do you want to have a chat to on on zoom calls and things like that and learn from and your names both came up actually so I might be asking you a favour we owe you on we definitely owe you on make sure you turn up or like crossing um moving on the second bit I was going to talk about was the fact that you're now doing loads of commentary around the world. So how did that transition work? Because I imagine if you've gone into coaching, there's probably not an element of you're not thinking about commentary either.

It feels a bit like one or the other. So how have you managed to balance both, I guess? Yeah, like the commentary stuff I love. And I've actually quite enjoyed the challenge of it because it's like my perception of it as a player is, oh you just talk about cricket and it's which obviously you do but I think it's trying to just learn to be better at it and I think that was quite a nice thing having gone from obviously stopping to play cricket where you're focused every single day

and what you're trying to do whereas I think with commentary it's just a brand new challenge and then with the coaching stuff like in the winter I've the last couple of years I've coached in the big bash and with the Sydney Sixers and so I think just timing wise it all works out. So I know that I do the big bash sort of back end of the year to early like Jan and then the rest of the year I can do all the commentary and the coach and stuff. So yeah, the variety I think is nice. I don't know if you find that out because obviously you used to play and do a bit of commentary. It's just nice to have that variety and a bit of balance, I think. Yeah, I quite like doing both. I mean, one day I'll obviously stop playing

but yeah at the minute i like doing both and trying to get the balance right although obviously commentary in the summer and playing in the summer is quite tough a lot of miles yeah was commentating something that you always thought you would go into was it something you sort of fell into um oh my god yeah i fell into it so i remember when i retired i was like oh my god what am i going to do and um i wrote a business plan for like this fitness business so i I did my personal training course, and I thought, right, I need to start earning a living now. So I did this big business plan for personal training, but with a court, in a corporate environment. And so I was like, I'm just going to have to do this.

And then I got a message from Adam Mountford at BBC. And it was like, oh, do you want to come and go on a tour? It was your first tour after I'd stopped playing. I can't remember where it was now. West Indies, yeah. not a bad first trip to go on as a commentator yeah i know exactly you can enjoy the run punches um so i was oh yeah i'll give that a go um and then from there yeah just got asked to do more which was nice and and then the the personal training business plan went out the window

it's a funny place to be though when you stop doing something that you've done for such a long you suddenly twiddling your thumbs not really knowing exactly what you're going to do but yeah it all worked out did you find lid or well i certainly found this with doing the hundred in the summer but i found that it really helped my cricket brain by commentating because you're actually analysing and reviewing cricket on the spot and it made me almost think about cricket more from like a bird's eye view which i think well hopefully helped my captaincy as well or will help my captaincy in the future nah yeah a hundred percent like I think you think about the game in a different way but then you also

um listen to other people and how they think about the game um like especially some of the guys because some of those some of them haven't seen much of the women's game like I've learned more about their stuff and they probably learned quite a bit about our game as well because I think sometimes often people forget like they are very different um and so yeah I I think from that point of view, I've learned, yeah, loads. And just, like, technically different ways of approaching things tactically as well. And then just really appreciating even the bowling side of things. So obviously, I used to be a batter.

And I remember at training, I never really paid that much attention to you bowlers. But I think I've just found a new appreciation for actually how hard it is and how skillful it is as well. we actually Kelsey we asked Lids to come for a TMS net and she said oh no but I'll play some football

well Lids I've actually heard so the COVID restrictions over here obviously mean that we're allowed some fielders if the worst case happens

and we you know we might need someone to come on and field and I've heard that you might say no if it happens well there's a couple of reasons for that so Trev texts me

and she was like i'm still waiting for my text trev texts me and um she was alluded she sort of brought up this new rule that there's been that a team can field nine players if they lose players to COVID um and she was alluding to the fact that you know would i be up fulfilled in um and if we were having a verbal conversation, I would have done like an awkward laugh, like an awkward slash nervous laugh because I was like, I wasn't too sure if she was being serious. She goes, how's quarantine going, Liddy? Keen for a call up if we have to play with nine players.

And so I eventually said, are you being serious? She said, maybe. But I think there is, I don't know if I would play because I'm just not sure about that rule. I don't know what you guys think. It is a bit rogue. It feels very COVID-y. Like they've just brought this rule in because of COVID.

But we were actually talking about it as a group because it's management you can bring in. And we've got Lisa Keitley, who's Australian, so she can't feel for us. Ella Donnington, who used to wicket keep for England, so could, you know, maybe if we really need someone. But then we were thinking we've actually got you two. I mean, I think Heather actually texted Eneed Baitwell

before she's going to text her. you. Especially if she wants to field her. You must have your spikes, Al. I haven't. I've been bowling in my trainers, but I'm sure if and when the spinners go down with COVID, I'm available. Yeah. At the speed you move, Al, you have to get your spikes on. Right, Lid. So you've obviously played so much cricket.

I'm not going to tell you how many times because that's part of the quiz. question later but um a bit of fun now who was your best and your worst teammate throughout your career best and reasons why please worse gosh oh best teammate well there's a few does it have to be id1 no well i feel like if you sit if you pick a few it's kind of sitting on the fence isn't it yeah i mean i played all my my cricketing career with Lott, obviously. So, I mean, she's got to be up there. But then when I get asked,

it's often like the people that I roomed with a lot. So I roomed with East Jen and Beth Morgan. And we also lived in Australia for a couple of seasons. And we just obviously had an amazing time. So, I mean, and then obviously I lived with Bogg for like six years. or however long. So, I mean... You actually had a lovely core group of players, didn't you?

That you played with for a long time for England, like all those names that you've just named. But Jenny Gunn can't be one of your favourite roommates because she used to get up at the crack of dawn and be in bed by 8pm. Oh, we're talking about roommates, because that's an easier one if it's just roommates. All right, well, do best and worse roommates then.

Oh, okay. So I can tell you my worst one, and that was Catherine Brant, because we were like chalk and cheese. she's obviously one of my really good friends um but she's a real night out and i get up in the morning quite early so i'd be getting in bed sort of pyjamas on half eight nine and she's just getting going like that's when she comes into her own so at midnight like she's still on her phone you can hear her chunter in a way um and then i'd be up at like dawn's crack because you know

that's my thing and she'd be fast asleep and then I'd wake her up so that's probably yeah that's an easier one to answer I reckon who was your best roommate then oh best roommate sounds like jenny dimman I was I was bagging her but it sounds like you got on pretty well yeah oh my god jem so sometimes I remember sharing with jem and we would share quite a lot because some I don't know if you still do it but you'd put like the top three people of who you want to list with. So Jen would be on mine like Ish, Beth, bog, people like that.

And I remember waking up one morning. And actually this happened multiple times. And I'd just look over and I'd see the bed was empty. So I was like, oh Jen, like she gets up at five in the morning. She's probably gone out for breakfast or a walk. And I don't know. I'd get up out of bed.

And then I'd look over to Jen's bed again. And I could just see a pair of feet on the ground like like at the edge of the bed and because she has a really bad back she sometimes had to sleep on the floor what a beauty jam and before we do our really fun quiz

what has been the highlight of your international career what's the one thing you look back on your best moment ever oh I think the best moment would have to be like 2005 ashes when we were waiting on the men to win so that we could get our open top bus ride through London and that was just an unbelievable day

so yeah definitely that one I always forget that you were on that bus because obviously there was a lot of pictures of Freddie and KP absolutely blind and drunk on this bus and then all the girls were on there as well and I always think how amazing that moment was back in 2005 when you didn't really probably mix as much as we might do now

no and the funny thing was and we didn't really care but loads of people thought we were the wives and girlfriends oh no we honestly didn't mind because we were having a great time

but yeah that's definitely a day to remember and on the flip side worst moment of your career so one moment you look back and you go oh no sounds like dropping that catch off Brunty yeah

yeah that's up there we had a real down tour against the West Indies. I know it wasn't the West Indies. It was a World Cup where we lost and we just had a real bad moment in the changing rooms where it just kicked off a bit. So yeah, that's not a fun memory. Oh, all those moments, not nice.

Right, Lid, a bit more fun. We've got a quiz for you. So we've got a couple of questions based on you and your career. Not many people do well in these quizzes. So there's nothing really. Don't worry about it. Enjoy the ride and you don't win anything. So question number one, you hold a record in T20 cricket, but what is it for?

Something to do with catches. Is it most number of catches in an in-ins? Yes. Yes, correct. One point. Well done. Good to start. How many matches for England did you play it altogether?

Oh, I know this one. 225. Oh. I think 226. I think you might have done some bad maths. Have you done your research, ladies. Well, ESP and Crick Info told us it was it was 208. Oh, was it?

Oh, maybe it is. I might be claiming more games. No, but you sound really confident there, so we're going to give you that. The only reason why I sound confident is because that's what we've put on the Cricket for Girls website. Right, well, we'll go with the cricket for girls' website. But, yes, unless it could be my maths. I was in charge of adding those up, so it could definitely be my maths. You've had a long couple of days, Chrissy.

Yeah, it's been tough. Okay, moving on. Question number three, what is higher, your T20 average, or your test match strike rate? Oh, God, no idea. Well, I'm guessing my test match strike rate is pretty low. So I'm going to go, T20. No.

Oh, which was 28.2, and your T20 average was 24.3. Oh, okay. That's it. Good fact. Yeah. And here's one for you. The last one that we've got, I think. What's higher?

Your ODI higher score, or the amazing. out of catches you've taken in all cricket? I think my IDI highest score is 125. Is that right? Yes. Not out. Did I catch more? Is this just an IDI cricket?

Or cricket. Well, international. Maybe more catches. Did I catch more catches? They were very close. So you scored 125 and you took 121 catches. Oh, that is close. I mean, that's a lot of catches.

That is. I've probably dropped them. Lid, you've actually done pretty well there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've told us an answer that we didn't know was correct. So I'm going to check that, though. I will go back and do it. I've got one final question for you before I let you go.

What would your advice be for us as a team now, given where we are in this World Cup? What would you remind? Just onwards and that. ladies you know you've played some really good cricket um the first game but we're talking about before we came on on air um you don't become a bad team overnight so keep your eyes on the prides onwards and upwards i love it i'm going to make everyone listen to this episode now just for that or do you know what else is good to um to watch um ted lasso have you guys

oh one of our staff members watching that yeah will that help us absolutely it will help you without a doubt pass that on to the girls excellent thank you so much lids and I'm sorry it took us 24 hours to figure this time out

thank you guys thanks for having me onwards and upwards and that really that is what we're taking from that crossy

onwards and upwards yeah and she is right isn't she like stuff like this change is so quickly you can pick up momentum and that like tournament cricket is all about momentum like if you peek at the right time you could win the tournament exactly and you know what yes you've lost your first two games but there's still so many more games of cricket to go we've literally got five games

five odi's left that's a lot of cricket still exactly exactly right crossy i've got to go because i've got work well good luck in the game this afternoon don't don't say live on air like someone did this week. I can't believe that happened

that was in my sticky notes to talk about but we've not had time. We'll talk about it next week. Everyone, if you need to

get in touch with us we will look at our emails at some point this week. So if you do need to no-ball us,

you can email us on. Nobles podcast at BBC.com. Noblespodcast at BBC.com. It's so good. It's so good.

They said it twice. It said it twice. That was our best one Yeah, we're not even looking at each other. So good from us. Crossy, I've got us a guest for next week, and it's a big one. Can you also get yourself a better Wi-Fi router for next week, please, thanks. Yeah, we'll do.

Bye. Bye. And cross strikes in the first over. It's what England we're looking for. Partly balls. Down the track comes scoring this time she connects. It's either six or out. It's six.

I'm Levy Haydock, and this is Gangster. In this podcast series, we tell the extraordinary story of Paul Massey, a gangland Mr Big. I've got personal friends all over, and then personal friends would have lying in bed at night, so what happened to me. His rise from the streets of Salford to the head of. an organised crime group. Police people with the original soprados, that's no exaggeration. A journey into a dangerous underworld where a code of silence reigns. You work for us now.

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