Test Match Special - Project Ashes Ep 5: History Lessons

Episode Date: November 30, 2021

For the last 12 months, Jonathan Agnew has been given exclusive behind-the-scenes access to the England men’s cricket team’s planning to win back the Ashes. Throughout the year, Aggers has spoken to key players, including Joe Root, Stuart Broad, Jimmy Anderson, but also those less known names who play crucial roles. In Episode Five, Aggers speaks to Stuart Broad and Jimmy Anderson to find out what they’ve learnt from previous Ashes tours, and what they’ll be telling teammates who have never experienced one.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance Defender Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. The Ashes is the ultimate prize in English cricket. Up comes both of them now.

He bows to Alderman. He bows to Stokes, who hammers it for four. And he stands there with a bat raised. I can't believe we've seen that. England have won by two runs. England have only won once in Australia in the last 34 years. Eight series, one victory. Dawson comes up and bowls to war, who drives,

and drives through the officer. Nine for his hundred. That is extraordinary. Nasser Hussein has won the toss and inserted Australia in what you'd have to say, very good conditions here. England have ten players in their squad who have played on an Ashes tour before. So what have they learnt from those trips and what makes Australia such a unique place to tour? You've got to be aggressive but patient with that aggression. We've bigged it up so much about, you know, the Aussies and the sledging and the crowsing

and the crowd and the press and all that instead of probably just focusing more on ourselves and not worrying about the other stuff. The key to us is as players, we're just really honest with how everyone's feeling and we stick together of the mindset because we want everyone happy to be able to win there. This is Project Ashes.

Ingan's record this century in Australia makes pretty grim reading. Played 25-14-14. Drawn 2, lost 19. Let's go back to the first of those series, 2002, and things started badly on the very first day. Haunting this time, flicked into the onside. Jones has been beaten there.

I thought he's going to die for a moment, but he hasn't done. He's running down towards the boundary. Oh, no! Oh, this could be very bad news. He has fallen over. He was going to dive. I think he's wrenched his knee,

and he's down there, writhing in pain. The ball's gone for four. But Jones there completely missed. To replace Jones, England called up a 27. seven-year-old Yorkshire fast bowler who hadn't played a test for nearly three years. I was at home and just got a phone call saying you get yourself ready. There's a possibility you're going. Then they sent me for a medical and on the way home I confirmed,

but was it the place was mine as I was coming out of you. Fast forward nearly two decades and that fast bowler is now England's head coach, Chris Silverwood. But he was injured in his very first test on the tour, joining Jones, Flintoff, Giles and Goff on the injury list for the series. Also on that tour was the wicket-keeper James Foster, who's back out in Australia this time with England's coaching team. Simon Joanie injury was like horrific.

It was just horrible to witness, horrible to see at the gabbard on that day. I also remember him getting stretched off and again. I remember talking to Simon afterwards and how the crowd are just getting stuck into him. And then they drafted in Chris Silverwood or Spoons, as is known. And then like you say, I remember Spoons playing at Perth. But I remember he did, I think it was his ankle. He busted his ankle. He did something.

So he was out. And I also remember, Nass throwing his toys out of the pram as usual. I think he might have nicked off. He might have got 70 or 80. And I think he was obviously eyeing up 100. But I remember watching the TV in the change room. You can see him get, he's got out,

he's walking up the steps. It goes into the change room. I think he's either looked at it's dismissal or something. And then it's all of a sudden, I don't know what it was kicking, but he then just started whacking, kicking the life out or something. I don't know if it was spoon.

as crutches. I don't know if it was bats. I've got no idea, but it was taking an absolute beating, whatever it is. And it's one of those where you're just, you're chuckling inside. I mean, everyone's been there with those sort of incidents in cricket and cricket changing rooms where someone's having a moment and everyone's just chuckling away. But you just, oh my God, it's England captain. Do not get caught laughing when I'm watching it or not on the TV. Well, that serves a reminder of just how much pressure an England captain is under when they tour Australia. Because an Ashes tour is a tour like no other.

Here's Foster again. We met at the airport, normally like the night before we travel. And people had always mentioned before the Ashes tours are very different than most other tours that you go on. Maybe beforehand you might have the odd interview and you'd kind of say that as a bit of a line because that's what you've heard.

But obviously not knowing it. But I remember then the atmosphere at the hotel before we flew like just like more the buzz from the from all the press guys and I was like wow this seems like ramped up and then I remember getting to Australia and just absolutely loving it it's such a wonderful country to tour

while it had been 22 at the time so you know life's pretty good yeah we were in Perth and you'd pick up the newspaper and we'd maybe had a couple of days training we'd done some catches on the outfield at the Wacker and then I remember

like seeing a back page of one of the newspapers in Perth and it had like showing like four or five guys dropping catches like still pictures on and dropping catches you're like how is this like worthy of back page news like sporting news which I found rather odd but I then kind of realised that the more and more you're there was almost just putting a little bit of pressure on the English just wherever you went and also remember when we're in Perth We used a gym, which was maybe like a five, ten minute walk away. And we'd have, you know, you'd be wearing your England kit, and you'd have like big England on the back of your shirt. And you'd be walking to the gym, people should be driving past, shouting out the window, say, oh, you're not rubbish, and all that sort of stuff. So it was like, okay, this has definitely got a different kind of tempo about it. Watching that tour from the comfort of his home was a 16-year-old Stuart Broad.

Seen tours, notably, when I was a fan, was it 2002? It was like a bowler was coming back every two days, wasn't it? It was something ridiculous. So you do need an armoury of fast bowlers. I mean, it's your last one, let's be honest. You could look at me like that. Well, okay, it's probably your last trip to Australia for the ashes. So, I mean, what's a draw that is?

Yeah, I mean, a huge draw. Yeah, to answer your question, it's massive. The thought of playing at Brisbane, Melbourne, New Year's Test. And for me, Molly's never been to Australia, ever. So, like, what, you know, she's, she's desperate to be able to see New Year and in Sydney and all that sort of jazz. They're very special trips, aren't they? You know, Australia's a wonderful country, feel like it is England versus Australia over there. It's not just England versus the Australian cricket team, it's England versus Australia.

And they're amazing experiences to be on. But I will, you know, I think the key to us as players were just really honest with how everyone's feet. and we stick together of, you know, the mindsets. We want everyone happy to be able to win there. You know that 2010, when I look back at that winning tour, it's probably the happiest tour that you're ever going to go on. It was the best, wasn't it? It was the happiest tour.

You know, all the players got on really well with the media, if you remember. It was just a lot of fun. All the supporters felt really close. So you can't go to Australia, bunker down and have a lot of success. I think you do need that support system around you. India won, well, this winter, our winter, India won in Australia, didn't there? And they took their families. So that should give us some encouragement.

That line, you feel like it's England versus all of Australia. It's one that gets mentioned a lot. Jimmy Anderson, we're playing his fifth Ashes tour and he knows what to expect. Well, the best way to describe it is it's noisy. There's lots of stuff going on. whether it's in the media or with the fans or with the players, it's generally noisy and busy. There's lots of stuff going on, lots of distractions.

I think the best thing or the most important thing that you need to do is try and block all that out because obviously the cricket is the most important thing on a tour like this and it's just trying to get your head around how to manage everything else because it does feel like, of all the tours we go on, it feels like it's got the most media focus. It's got the most just stuff going on around it. And I think it's how you manage that. The team that manages that the best is generally comes out on top.

A lot of it is trying to or find in a way of blocking it out. So for me, I'll just, I'll throw myself into the cricket and the practice, potentially try and stay away from social media. you know, anything that's going to slightly distract you and take you off course, I think you've got to try and avoid. And I think trying to make it lighthearted as well, you've got to enjoy tours like this. It's an amazing experience

and not many people get to play in an Asher series. So you've got to try and treasure it while you do playing it. So I think it's, yeah, just trying to concentrate as much as you can on the cricket, that your skills is what is going to win the series for England. So you get around each other, trying to support each other as much as we can and enjoy it, yeah? It's not difficult to think of an example of the noise that Jimmy refers to, small incidents that get blown out of proportion. On the last tour, it was alleged that Johnny Beirstow headbutted the Australian opener Cameron Bancroft in a bar. In reality,

it was a little more than a socially awkward greeting, but it was headline news for days. I remember Andrew Strauss was wheeled out. to explain it all. Well, I think it's fair to say he was completely baffled and surprised and shocked that this was a massive issue. You know, what happened there was, you know, I think when people mention a headbutt, there's a connotation around aggression, you know, malicious behavior, intent to hurt and all that sort of stuff. Assault. Yeah, and it was anything but this, you know, it was a bit of a jest, a joke.

It's something that he does apparently with his rugby mates. I have no idea why he'd do such a thing. thing, but it's just a little bump of heads. It's not a headbut. It's a minor issue, but it obviously highlights the fact that in an Ashes series, minor issues can become major issues. It's just one of many incidents that Anderson has seen before. Takes a bit of focus away from the team, obviously affects the individual as well. So, Pete, you've got to try, you spend more time and effort trying to rally around that person and make sure they're okay. you know there'll be there's always always stuff along the way and you know quite often it's quite

trivial but it's just can get blown up into something a lot bigger Anderson's played 18 Ashes tests in Australia and his experience will be vital for the 10 members of the squad yet to play any we've got players in this team that have never played in an Ashes series before and yes it's a it's a big series and there's a lot of history there you know, the Ashes is a, you know, one of the oldest proffees in sport, I guess, one of the oldest contests in sport. So it is a, it's a big deal, but it's not that big deal. Do you know what I mean?

It's trying to find the balance of how important it is and how important is it actually, if you know what I mean. You know, you don't want people stressing out too much. At the end of the day, we're going out there. It's the same bat you've used for however many years you've played the game. It's the same ball, albeit a lesser ball to the Duke, but it is still red and round, and you've got to try and get the opposition out,

and you've got to try and score runs. That's essentially it. It's the same game. We've got to try not to build it up, be something that it's not, to being something that people get really nervous about. You know, it's actually exciting to play, and it's an amazing series,

an amazing place to play. in Australia. There's some of great grounds and the cricket is always tough and you you find a lot out about yourself when you play in these series. So I think it's trying to just

normalise it a little bit if you can to the players that haven't played in it before and yes there'll be nerves there. There always is in it in any test match we play but it's about trying to remember the strengths of the individual, try and remember why you're here, why you're playing for England

and just play to those strengths and try and enjoy it as much as you can. Anderson was a key part of the team that won in 2010-11, the only team to have done so in the last 34 years. It was an incredible historic trip and certainly ones will stay with me forever. And Anderson moves in and he bowls to Ricky Ponting who's edging and is he caught?

He's out first ball. Caught by Swan at second slip. What's going on? Ponding. Out for a golden duck. In comes Tremlitt. Beer waits for him. He's there and he bowls.

And he's paid into his wicket. It's all over. He's bowled by Tremlet. And England have won their first series in Australia for 24 years. It's their third innings victory as well. And they're gathered together, jumping up and down in that celebratory dance that we saw at Melbourne when they retained the ashes in the previous match.

But now they've done it all in style. They've won the series 3-1. And it has been a wonderful team performance. We just played brilliantly. We were at the peak of our powers, the whole team, the whole, you know, as individuals and as a team. We know exactly what we were going to do. You know exactly what each other did and the strengths were.

And we just, yeah, went for it and enjoyed it. As I said before, we didn't take it overly seriously. I think that's one thing that we have done occasionally before and after that 2010 series, you take it ridiculously seriously. Like, you know, we've had meetings before about, I think it was 2006. We just won the ashes in 2005, 2006.

We went to Australia. We were talking about things like how we look when we get off the plane. We've got to be in suits to make sure we make a good impression when we get off the plane. Actually, who cares about that? You know, it's about how you perform on the field. And I think we've focused,

too much on those sort of little things that didn't really matter that much. So in 2010, our sole focus was the cricket. You know, we also enjoyed Australia. We embraced it. We went around. We tried to, every bit of time off that we had, we'd go and try and, you know, play golf somewhere or go to a vineyard or whatever. We'd try and take in a bit of the culture, which I think made everyone

relax and made everyone sort of fall in love with Australia a little bit. It's an amazing place to go, amazing country. So I think, yeah, it's just trying to focus on the cricket and enjoy that if it can. It's not just Anderson who noticed this. David Milan realized something was wrong with the approach on the last tour. We big did up so much about, you know, the Aussies and the sledging and the crowd and the, you know, the press and all that sort of thing. And, you know, we sort of made it this massive series instead of probably just focusing more on ourselves and not worrying about the other stuff

of what we could come up against and focusing on how we want to do it. So maybe that's something we can hopefully turn down a little bit in this one. But, you know, it's interesting to see how we do go about it. Yeah, that's a really interesting point. I mean, I guess if you do, yeah, if you do big up the opposition and the whole environment and the atmosphere, then perhaps that isn't a great place to be, actually.

Yeah, you sort of rock up with all that anxiety and sort of expecting the worst when actually it's a great country to tour. It's, you know, good cricket. You're playing an Nash's series, one of the biggest rivalries in the world. You know, it's just an unbelievable experience. And almost a look at it like that instead of sort of this big daunting tour that you're going to go on and you're going to face these Aussies who are going to come at you all day and be in your face instead of just being, you know what, why don't we just do what we just do what we do? do and not worry about what they do, and hopefully we do well enough to keep us in the games and to get us over the line. Milan was one of the few positives that England could take from their last trip.

Milan innings has kept England in the ashes. That's as simple as that. Hazelwood in Bolston, Milan. Pull shot. He's got it 100 for Darwin, and what a way to do it. It's symbolic of his whole innings. He clenches his fist in celebration, gets a hug from Johnny Beirstow. He came out today. That was one of only 300 hit by England that tour. Milan ended up their leading run scorer.

But this time around, his experience of the conditions will be vital for Ingen's top order, especially with two openers who haven't played there before. Playing in Australia, just from what I've learned, is just by scoring a 350 or a 400 just potentially isn't enough. You have to try and get that 500 plus when you're bat. So it sort of puts us under more pressure as bad as to actually score really, really big. And when we do get into score big,

and then it's about trying to find ways to take 20 wickets as well. So, you know, it's about that balance of both bat and ball. It's not the batters v. the bowlers or anything like that. It's sort of trying to get that whole sort of complete game of taking 20 wickets and scoring enough runs, which it sounds pretty simple, which is a blueprint to winning test matches. You know, but that's the challenge that we have, especially in different conditions.

And the 100 that you scored in Perth, which clearly was, you know, a brave innings and all of that. How much do you think that has stood you in good stead for being selected again this time after the break? Yeah, I'm sure that had a role to play in it. You know, that was four years ago, I think, now. So, you know, if you're taking me from one innings

that I've had four years ago, then, you know, I'd say that could be brave as well. You know, maybe the fact that in the last two years I've played a lot more international cricket, you know, especially in the whiteball stuff. and I've performed and put some consistent performances on the board there. And maybe that's sort of, you know, showing the coach and the captain, the selectors,

you know, that I'm probably more comfortable international level than I was back in that time. You know, so it could be a sort of a mix of both. But, I mean, there were 50s as well, there's that 100 that you scored while the team was losing. I mean, again, that's... I don't know how you look back on that in a way. I mean, you tell me, and that personally, you know, you had a good tour, and yet the team lost.

So how do you balance, how do you balance that? Yeah, so if you look at that Perth test, I've got 140 in the first innings, and, you know, I think we scored 470 or 480, and, you know, I played a poor shot to get out. Lying in, Bolton, Milan, who goes up and over, could be caught. Very well caught. Backward point, running catch in Australia, have their breakthrough. Milan dancing down the pick, trying to hit line over the top, miscued it, it lobbed in the air. On a really good batting wicket, you know, I could have been batting and probably, you know,

if I'd played well enough to got another 30, 40, 50, 60 runs, which could have got us to be 600 and put us in a stronger position. So that was, you know, even though I scored 140 and I was happy that I got 140, when you look at the way the game went, you go up all that for 470, they got 680 or something or 700, and we lost by an innings. So it's, you know, as good it is to score runs, it's, you know, you have to score the right runs to win games of cricket. So looking back, yes, good to score the 100,

but I'd probably miss that and score in more runs in that first innings just by playing that shot that I did, that sort of let the Aussies in and they were able to win a game, which, you know, I think it's a good learning curve, not only for myself, but for us going to Australia now, is that when we do get in, actually, to make it count and score as many runs as we can and bad as long as we can. things didn't go smoothly for Milan after that tour.

He played just four more tests before he was swiftly ejected the following summer. But he worked hard on his game across all formats and became the best batsman in the world in T20s. I spoke to him at the T20 World Cup in Dubai, and he believes he's a very different player to the one who toured Australia four years ago. I'd say I felt more comfortable the first time around when you get selected to test cricket,

you know, especially at the time, you know, when I did get picked for tests, did I really think I was good enough to play test cricket then? Probably not. You know, I thought I was probably lucky to get a test caller, considering all the other players in the country that probably have missed out on test opportunities who've scored a lot of runs in domestic cricket. You know, so you go into that environment and you've got Cook and Anderson and Broad and Root and, you know, the best, Stokes, all these guys that have been such good performers for England and guys that you've watched for years, suddenly you're walking in this team as

someone that, you know, you probably don't think you are good enough to be there. And then you start doubting whether you are good enough to be there. And then you start thinking whether you think the other guys think you're good enough to be there. So, you know, I probably say I thought about it too much and I wanted it too badly in that first stint, you know, even though I played well at times, I think this time round, after having been playing international cricket regularly probably for two years in the other formats, or quite regularly in the other formats, probably helped me going back in.

Same coaching staff. You know, I've been on tours of Rootie after that. You know, I wouldn't say that the players probably didn't respect me in the first one. I wouldn't say that. I'd say I probably earned their respect more by doing so well in the other formats. You know, so they sort of trust you and trust your game a little bit more and believe that you, I'm putting words in their mouth. they probably believe that you're good enough to be there.

You know, and it's totally different when you walk into a team, not having performed to suddenly having performed somewhere else for a couple of years. You know, it makes it slightly easier. So, yeah, I found this one, this time a lot easier, not because for any particular reason from the team side of you, just from my own sort of probably mindset and thoughts and comfort side. So, I'll relate to a lot of what you said there, by the way. You're out there in Dubai and World Cup and everything else, you know,

and clearly very, very important. But is there any Ash's talk at all at the moment? I mean, are you even going to see a red cricket ball or white clothes or anything? Or is ashes completely off at the moment. It's purely World T20. Now, the ashes for us that are here is completely off. We had a meeting while we were in quarantine. And that was the last time when we discussed all the,

the travel and the rules and all the sort of quarantine and all those sort of things. And we decided then as a squad that was here, all the guys that are going to that ashes, that this is the last time we talk about it. If there are any issues, then you have any concerns. You can speak to Gila or to Chris Silverwood separately. But for the rest of it, we park it, we're here to win a World Cup. That's our most important. We have, I think the timeframes when we do get to Australia are quite short,

but we have a two-week quarantine where I believe we're allowed to train. at periods in that quarantine. You know, and I think once we finish here, wherever we finish, hopefully by winning it, we can get on that plane and then do our two-week quarantine and focus for two weeks on the red ball and get back into the swing of it. It would intrigues me, David.

I mean, clearly I never played T20 and anything else, but we end up talking about it a lot. We talked about a lot in the summer about how players like you have to switch so quickly and hopefully, effectively, from one format to the other. I mean, Mowen had to do it, didn't he, in this summer as well, pull out of the 100 and ended up, you know, literally a few days later playing in a test match.

How do you do it? I mean, how do you actually move between those formats? And is it expecting too much of a batsman like you to just move seamlessly from T20 cricket, 100 cricket or whatever, to playing against a pace attack like Indians? test match. Yeah. I think I'm slightly different to the others because I'd say I'm more traditional in terms of the way I play across all three formats. You know, you look at someone

like Joss who can walk out in a white ball game, first ball of a game and just hit it 150 meters out of the ground. Am I probably going to do that? Well, I could probably hit it just over the boundary somewhere if it's my day, but I'm more a traditional baddest of my training is all Hey, I was in Napier. I saw you smack it around there. Yeah, well, it happens. We all have our day, don't we? But yeah, I focus a lot on the basics.

A lot of my training is done that if I'm in good positions, my base is good, and I'm hitting clean contact on the ball, that each format is just an extension of the other. That's how I believe cricket is. That's my theory on batting. That doesn't mean it's the right theory. It doesn't mean that it makes me successful. But it's, you know, whereas you look at somewhere like a Mo who, you know,

bats at six or seven or five or every batts in whiteball cricket and has to try and hit the first ball for six, so he practices that in whiteball cricket the majority of the time and then suddenly then go back to test cricket a week later and have to play a forward defensive. I think that's a slightly different scenario than someone like myself that can just, you know, sort of play the similar way every time and just have a slight extension in each format. I think it does get tough when you, especially if you're searching for things because there is no time to actually prepare really if you're playing sort of all three formats to actually I'd probably say have a good week or two

week period to actually sort of switch your mindset because it's more a mindset thing of you're always looking to score you're always looking to take positive option in each format that you play but there's obviously a balance between it and I say that probably sometimes you get caught in the middle or you get caught being too slow in whiteball cricket because because you've just been playing Red Bull Cricket and it takes you two or three games to get your bat swing and your movements up to the intensity that's needed in whiteball cricket.

And same for Test Cricket. Sometimes you're too intense and your movements are too sort of, I'd say, snappy for what you need in Test Cricket. So it's just trying to find that balance, which can be tough sometimes. Yeah. I mean, we all know the differences between T20 and Test cricket.

But for you, the number one T20 batsman in the world at the moment to be still in a way finding your feet in test cricket again I mean does that also rather sum up the differences between the two? Yeah, definitely well it sums up that I didn't take the opportunity

at my first opportunity when given a great opportunity in test cricket you know and I think that I'd say probably the thing that I found toughest with the tests was that if you weren't good enough you sort of went from being say you're not the number four or five or three for England, suddenly being out of squads and back into domestic cricket

and having to sort of score runs. Whereas in the white ball here, if you get left out for some other reason, whether it be for balance or for form, you don't sort of go from being, say, England's number three, four, five, to suddenly being out of the squad of 15 to, you know, being totally discarded. You still feel like you're part of the group and that gives you that confidence. I can really relate a lot to what David was saying about having to prove himself in the team. That was me 37 years ago. A lot is always made on how you have to bowl in Australia. Stuart Broad and Jimmy Anderson have played 30 tests in the country between them. The key to Australia, you have to move the ball. So, you know, let's not get too jumpy with,

fraught with pace. Look at Josh Hazel. What does he do? He's tall and he moves the ball. Glenn McGrath for many a year. It's tall and he moved the ball. So we'll have our plans when we go there and you need to be adaptable for which players are going to be there but you know we have one positive

about COVID is because we've had to take such big squads around with us we've had to look at a lot of players and that's a big positive I don't really I wouldn't say I go into a series with a real rigid plan

of how I'm going to bowl because every wicket you play on is different every day that you play is different the conditions are different. So it's about adjusting to the conditions as quickly as you can and as well as you can.

And I think that matters in all games that you play. You know, there will be little things that I'll have in my mind. So like, for example, when you play in India, you know that reverse swing is more than likely going to play a part. So you'll have that in your mind that you might have to practice that a bit more before that series. So, yeah, in Australia, I guess the new ball's important. important because you don't know how long it's going to swing for, but you will get some swing.

And then after that, you know, in my head, I'll go in thinking it's just going to be, I'm going to have to be relentless, absolutely relentless with the areas that I bowl, got to be so accurate. You've got to bowl with decent pace as well. You can't just put it on the spot. You've got to really try and hit the bat hard. So those are the sorts of things that I'll be going in with. But it's not like a rigid plan. I'll chop and change throughout the series depending on the conditions. So do you see that as one of the keys then, patience? Yeah, but it's, I mean, when people talk about patience,

you can, sometimes you think it's going to be boring or you've got to be defensive, but actually you've got to be aggressive, but patient with that aggression. You've got to be aggressive in terms of the fields that you set in terms of the lines that you bowl. You can't just lob it outside off stump and bowl, try and bowl maidens, you've got to be, you know, you've got to be challenging the bat all the time.

And as I said, you've got to hit the pitch. It's not like generally the ball doesn't swing a huge amount, so you can't just throw it up there like you might be able to do in England and find the nick. You've got to be, yeah, just aggressive and really hit the pitch hard. And I think, to be honest, you look at the bowlers that have had success in Australia. You look at Australia's bowling attack. You know, why does Cummings have success? Because he's absolutely relentless with his areas that he hits.

as a decent bouncer. You know, it's not rocket science, what he does. It's not, there's nothing out of the ordinary with what he does. But he's just absolutely relentless and skillful and does it for a long period of time. So it's either aggressive patience or patient aggression. Experience of previous Ashes tours is going to be crucial for England in this series. Probably a good start will help, but it's not everything. After all, in the last two tours, they've gone in with plenty of experience and have lost nine of the last ten tests. So why might things be different this time round? That's why we believe we can win.

We've got some world-class players. We've got, I'd say, the best batsman in the world and the best all-rounder in the world. I've got a huge desire sort of like a burning fire to prove people wrong there and prove that, you know, they've got a bat with fastball and who are really good, top quits. So I'm hoping that, you know, I could match them or even better. part of a squad that brings the Ashes home. Don't try and be Australia in Australia. Try and be England in those conditions and that's the best version of ourselves in those positions.

We do that, I think, you know, I think it would be absolutely fun. We're not going next to, just turn up and be part of the tour. We're going next to wish. That's next time in the last episode of Project Ashes. Match of the Day Top 10 podcast Gary Linneker here to bring you a little message Match of the Day

Top 10 podcast is back once again exclusively on BBC sounds It's too late for me now, man yeah, it's too late I was going to get some more dates to match of the day then Yes, myself, Alan and the busiest man in football

punditry, Micah Richards return for series five He was never going to Man City Maniated could never ever have allowed Cristiano Ronaldo to have gone to Manchester City The Match of the Day Top Ten podcast Only available on BBC Sounds