Test Match Special - Remembering Graham Gooch's 333

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

Dan Norcross presents a bonus TMS podcast to commemorate the 30th anniversary of one of the most famous innings ever played at Lord's: when Graham Gooch scored 333 against India in the 1st Test. You'll hear a replay of a special programme presented by Jonathan Agnew featuring archive commentary and some of the main protagonists from that memorable 1990 match including Gooch himself, Kapil Dev and Mohammad Azharuddin. Then Dan, Phil Tufnell, Andy Zaltzman and Vic Marks get together to recall their memories and talk about Gooch's England career.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is the TMS Podcast. from BBC Radio 5 Live.

I'm Daniel Norcross and welcome to a special TMS podcast. 30 years ago today, Graham Gooch completed one of the most famous innings played at Lords, 333 in a game against India. A fantastic performance with Gooch adding another century in the second innings, but it was actually a really special match in general. It was a game which saw a brilliant hundred by Mohammed Azaruddin, an amazing one-handed catch from Satchin Tendulka and Cappell Dev hitting Eddie Hemings for four successive sixes

to save the follow-on. We're going to look back on the match more now with Agers joined by Angus Fraser, who took eight wickets in the game. Cappell, Azaruddin, Hemings, and of course, Graham Gooch himself. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. It was a great game of cricket all round

for a lot of other performances apart from mine, and to come to the ground. you dream about playing as a cricketer. Lords, by far the best ground in the world. My favourite ground and a lot of other cricketers' favourite ground, I'm sure. But one that everyone wants to play, and I managed to get a decent performance there, is brilliant. And I always think that how lucky and privileged I was to play

and make 456 totally in that match, started with no runs and ended up with the most runs in a test. So it's quite ironical, isn't it? But just to reel off that number of runs, it's a staggering number of runs. I mean, that's more than a team usually makes. Well, I think, you know, to get the opportunity, when people ask me about it, to get the opportunity to score a triple hundred doesn't come around that often. When the advent of four-day cricket in county domestic cricket came about a few years earlier,

I gave it away once on 275 against Kent, and I was determined that I ever got that opportunity again to get a triple hundred. I wouldn't miss out. And once I got past sort of 250, then you start to think of that. But it was a great game, not only for my performance, but there's some super performances from our bowlers to win the match and other hundreds from Lamb, Smith, Shastry, Azaradin. A hundred off 88 balls he scored, so I was a bit pedestrian, I'm afraid.

I guess it was a big game for you too, isn't it? Because you had been out of the previous series. So, you know, you had to get your way back into the team again. You got five wickets? It wasn't. It was my first test at Lords too. So a big occasion for me. Were the honours boards up then?

I can't remember. I'd say, with the honours board's been as they are now, the desire to perform at the home of cricket and to get a fife or to get a hundred or to do something like that. So, no, it was a huge game. I'd say my first test of the summer because I'd had picked up a rib injury in the West Indies and missed the series against New Zealand.

So I just, it's lovely. When you win the toss, or lose the toss, as we did on this occasion, and you find yourself batting first, and you get to lunch, or you get halfway through the day, and you're only one down as a bowler, it's heaven. You just, it's feet up, it's give lunch a crack, it's, it's drift around the ground, catch out with a few mates, and asleep in the after. Exactly, and it's absolute heaven, isn't it? This is your downtime as a bowler.

It is, with worrying about what's going to come ahead, but no, it was a lovely couple of days to begin with it. I must ask you about the toss, Graham, because, of course, Muhammad Azra didn't won the toss and put you in. Now, there you are out there, and you'd have thrown the coin up, and he'd have called it, presumably, you saw it, and he saw he'd won. What was your immediate reaction? Do you think, oh, we're in the field here? Well, yeah, I mean, normally at Lord's having played there many times before,

is that normally on the first day, sometimes it's quite humid, sometimes it's a little bit overcast, and there's a little bit tadge of dampness sometimes in the wicket, because the groundsman, Mick Hunt, I always used to think, used to leave it slightly damp because he didn't want to crack, too early, didn't want to dry out too early. So the first session of a test could be difficult at laws, but that's the same in any test match.

But you'd think about maybe the climatic conditions, but you'd always bat. And the interesting thing was that I was speaking to Bisham Bedi, and he was the sort of coach for India in that match. And he spoke to Azaruddin at the nets, and he said, it's overcast, should we bowl? He said, no bat. He said, well, he's going to swing around.

Should we bowl? No, we're going to bat. And when he left the nets and walked across the ground, The next thing Bishan heard was India have won the toss and Will Field, so he wasn't best pleased. He wasn't pleased at all as the coach. And of course, the rest is history. You know, we went on and on and on for a day and three quarters really. And I mean, to me, I was very lucky and privileged to play cricket like both of you guys for my country to walk out at 11 o'clock on a Thursday to bat in a 10. test match at this ground is the best day of a test cricketer's life because this is the best ground, the atmosphere, the tradition, the home of cricket, the expectancy is just fabulous.

You had one? A stroke of luck, though, didn't you grab? Listen to this? Here is Sharma again. He's in Goose Drive, oh, and he misses that one. He may well have been dropped. For some extraordinary reason, they've not gone for a run. It went through Kiran Moray. It went past Venk Saka there at first slip. It went about 20 yards back to the boundary. The Batsman didn't run, so we've no means of knowing whether, in fact, Gouche made contact. I think he did, didn't he? Yeah, dropped.

I'm a dolly, really. Good old Trevor, putting it into perspective. Was it a dolly? Very sharp and clinical. Yeah, it was a very easy catch for a wicket-keeper, but two-handed catch. And, you know, just slightly down the slope in front of the Vavilion, you know, a catch that it's just regulation. Harry missed it, I don't know. But, you know, I suppose, as a cricket, you take those things in your strike, you get some bad.

decisions and if I don't think about drop catches maybe the bowlers think about them a bit more I just remember I don't remember the toss being a total shock it wasn't as terrible a decision as if we look back at say Nassra Sane asking Australia to bat in Brisbane in the first test of that Ashes series there

was enough around to suggest that the ball might do a bit but once you miss a chance like that and you've let the gun batsmen get away you're gonna it's gonna be costly isn't it? When did you know Graham that you were going to fill your boots then that catch went down but when did you I mean 100 200 when did you start to think pause I'm really on for a huge one here

I don't know I mean you know as a batsman I was always guided from quite a few years before by the late great Kenny Barrington who was our first I suppose you call him coach at England level he wasn't he was assistant manager on tours in in the late 70s and early 80s before he sadly passed away in Barbados in 81 with a heart attack And he was a bit of a mentor to the likes of myself, David Goward, Ian Botham, Mike Gatton, those sort of cricketers coming through that time. And one thing that he always said to me that stuck in my mind was get as many as you can, you know, fill your boots.

Make sure you get absolutely as many as you can, never give it away. Because if you go in the next time, you might get a ball that takes off a bit, gloves, you might get one that shoots along the deck, you might get a rough decision. And you'll be happy with that 150. And I just thought of that as I went through in this innings, from one step to the next to the next. You had a dodgy bat as well. Why, you said it was too wide? No, no, it's actually interesting.

So you had, well, the laminated bats, didn't you? You had one of those bats, the turbo, I think it was there. And the only reason I say that is because now the regulations on bats have changed, and the bat you were using, if I'm right, was two pieces of wood stuck together. now it's supposed to be one solid piece of wood and all right I'm not saying Gucci was cheated because he wasn't but people didn't realise then that the glue and the

extra surface and the two pieces of wood adds an extra little bit of ping to your back I disagree with the last comment there I do dispute that but that's a bowler talking isn't it I mean you know hard done by bowler but I mean the fact is he's absolutely true it was a laminated back made by Stuart Surridge and what you got was

a face and a back two top class what the old days would be called five star pieces of wood they'd be glued together and then the bat would be fashioned and the only benefit and honestly say this it from having that was it didn't perform any better than a conventional bat in terms of when you hit the ball away it pings off like he said but the one big advantage was it had a lot of durability it lasted a lot longer so if you've got a favorite bat you can have it maybe in the old days I'd use two and a half bats maybe in a season I'd have one and a half bats maybe even one with one of these bats. So he had his advanced use.

Well, at the end of the first day, you were raising it as he walked in on 194. What I know how he felt at the start of the next morning, then? Down those steps again, you got Alan Lamb with you, just got his 100, 104, as you two went out again. What were you saying as he walked out at the start of the second day? Well, if you'd have, I don't know if he ever batted with Lammy in your test career, Gus would have batted with Lammy, I'm sure, at some stage. Alan never really discussed cricket that much, actually. I mean, he discussed probably the meal he had.

the night before and what was the quality of the wine and stuff. And he always took your mind off the job. I mean, I remember the night before going for dinner with Doug Insoll at Odettes at Primrose Hill up the road. I was pretty tired, not only after that innings, but in those days, it's quite topical now because players are saying they're tired and jaded. We used to have one day in between the county match and the test match, the Wednesday. We used to sort of turn up for practice, didn't we, Gus? But it was a bit of a go-through to emotions, to be honest.

and I batted quite a lot on the Tuesday against Lancashire so I was pretty tired on that first night but I have to say this and I don't know it's like for every cricketer but one of my favourite parts of playing cricket and especially at the top level especially here as a batsman being not out overnight was absolutely lovely feeling like Gus just mentioned when you win the toss and bat

and there's runs being piled on a bowler can relax I just thought all through my career being not out overnight was absolutely fantastic because you'd achieve... Even against the West Indies? Well, yeah, I mean, because you achieve something, one, you've still got a part to play, and secondly, you've got everything to look forward to the next day. And as I said to a lot of people in my career,

I'll be honest, I never turned up for matches wanting to watch other people back. I wanted to be out there doing it. Well, on you went. Lammy, what did he make, 139, so he fell. Robin Smith came out and joined you. But here you go, reaching that huge landmark. Sharsbury runs up now around the wiki bells to Gooch.

Gooch, he just tickles. That's it. He's got his 300. He tickles it down, the long leg. And Gooch is 300 not out. And the crowd rising, Jane, they're all standing round, tapping. Shastry congratulates him. The Indian team applaud.

I haven't seen the umpires do so. That's not done. But a marvelous performance. There you go. John is obviously enjoying the moment. Does that bring it back for you? I've never heard that, actually, when he said the umpires are not clapping. I was used to him raising the finger to me many times as I played across the line quite a bit.

And one particular umpire, I won't name. But every time I used to play across the line and I'd hit the ball, he'd go like that. He'd make that expression on his face. I'll get you next time. But does hearing that bring it back, though? Can you see the crowd standing up now? Yes, I mean, it's a great. It's a great feeling, obviously, to score 100 or 200.

I've never been anywhere near that before. I never thought I would get anywhere near that because of the time constrate in matches when you declare. And I think we only went on that far in the end because light was bad and everything. So we were going to bat on and on and on because I don't think we would have filled it, even if we were to declare beforehand.

So, I mean, I never thought about the runs, you know, in terms of creating records, I played my career and started my career at Essex where obviously playing for the team was paramount, sacrificed my wicket many times in run changes for Essex. So personal records are nice, but it's not quite what you play the game for. You play to set up positions to win matches.

But did you know what Gary Sober's record was at the time? Well, I knew what the record was, 3-6-5. I never thought of that, because once I got past 300, I had one intention was to move the score on quickly for a declaration. And it's only when I came back to the dressing room that Mickey Stewart took me aside and he gave me a bit of a rollicking

I have to say he took me aside and said what are you doing? Throwing it away on 333? Pretty much like that yeah it wasn't quite you know it was a bit of a ticking off saying what are you doing getting out you know you should have gone on you should have passed the record and I say well you know we've got to get out there

have an hour out of something try and get some wickets tonight he said you're mad you should have gone on and taken the record and I never really thought about that that until after he spoke to me and then I thought oh well maybe I should have well this is the moment on 333 we have connoisseurs here today clearly and they're seeing history in the making they may go home and say I was there when Graham Gooch broke the world test record he's got 33 not out as Prabaka

Bill's 10 minutes Graham Gooch Bill Probarker 33 almost The world stopped just for a second in amazement, and then the crowd erupted in congratulations for Brabaka, and still greater congratulations for the England captain. Graham Gouche of Essex, who has succumbed at what some might think, an unlucky score of 333.

He and the crowd who saw it will never forget this innings. Off comes his white helmet, Up comes his weighty blade, risen to the crowd, and let's just hear him and the noise as he disappears into the sanctuary of the pavilion. There we go. He put the curse on you, Christopher, didn't he? Yeah, well, I mean, sometimes, I mean,

a lot of things, people have said, you know, to me down the years about things, I mean, Frank Keating, who I was very friendly with who wrote for the Guardian, he said, I think you're the first man to score a triple hundred in a batting helmet and that sort of stuff, which things you don't really think about, actually. But, I mean, I was just pleased, obviously, great honour to captain the country, great honour to play at Lords and captains some super players. And in the end, people also will remember this match

as one of the finest games of cricket that they've seen because it had a lot of incident, he had a lot of things happening. It was entertaining from start to finish, and it was just a privilege to be involved in it. Well, when your innings, really, although it obviously dominated the game, it was only really the start of it, wasn't? I mean, it set up this brilliant match. 653 before

declared. Ingo the Indians. They don't lose any wickets overnight. 48 for no wicket. Ravi Shastri opening the batting with our old friend Sidu. Shastry, of course, gets his hundred. But wickets slowly chip away.

Gus gets in on the active. You got Sidu out, didn't you? I did. I managed to get him a few times in that series. And I've spoken to him a couple of times since, and he gave him horrors. It must have been the only bats when I ever did. But I remember getting him out a few times,

called it short leg. 12th man John Morris I think took a couple of catches filling in there and I suppose that I mean everybody goes on about Graham's innings but I must say the innings by Azaruddin that century then is one of the greatest things I've ever seen and it's why if people ask me who are who are the best batsmen in the world that I've played out

I put Lara at the top of this but Azaradin's the second best player that I've ever bowed at and you just didn't seem to have any margin for her against the bloke if it was two inches outside of it if it was straight it was whipped through midwicket if it was two inch outside off stump. It went through a square leg. And if you bowled six inches outside of stump, it flashed over cover for four. It was just an astonishing display of batting by Azarrauddin. Well, I think he's got his hundred off 88 balls, actually. I looked it up before this interview, and I agree with Gus, and as a captain, it's very frustrating because

they talk about Kevin Peterson nowadays, difficult to bowl at, which the ball through mid-wicket. This guy had all sorts of shots for different balls, but very unconventional. Now, Gus saying that the ball were over off-side, leg-side, well, I remember, is as if Gus or any of the bowlers would bowl outside off stump. He, like Peterson, would whip it through mid-wicket. And then suddenly, the very next ball might be a little bit straighter off-stump, and he hit inside out through cover. It was virtually impossible to set afield to him.

Incredible risks. And it wasn't like Peterson the way that, I mean, Peterson takes a big stride, doesn't he? And gets forward and moves there. Azru didn't, did it off the back foot almost, didn't he? He sort of like pirouetted and flicked you from on-off stump through square leg for four. And you just think, where on earth is? I mean, there's the captain standing its lip, double teapot, thinking you're bowling down the leg's side again. You say, he's not down there. Look at the TV replays. That's out of his thumb.

Let's hear one of two illustrations of this remarkable reading to Madreuddin. Here is Lewis. Bowers-Ruddin drive. What a fantastic stroke. That was a no-bore, but my goodness me, you heard Vic Mark's ooh beside me. It was very much an always shot that. He hit through the line. It must have gone about two and a half yards to Atherton's right at extra cover. He had no chance in the world. And away it went into the bottom of the mounds down for four. And my goodness me, what a shot that was.

322 for 5, Azuruddin 88. Here he is. Berge, and there's another one. What about a marvelous stroke? Off the back foot. That went to Atherton's left, and that was an astonishing stroke. He just hit through the line again. This time his weight was firmly on the back foot.

Atherton, it was about four yards from him. He had not hope of any sort. And my goodness me, you weren't to see a better stroke than that. if you watch cricket six days a week and live to be a hundred and seven. 3.26 for five, Azarudin 92. Wasn't that a marvellous? Here is Lewis again. What's the good week going to be in store for now? Wait and see. Azarudin again and dried it, drum it off before. And that was, if anything, a shorter ball. And Lewis just looks at him. And what an incredible stroke again.

And Diggy Bird signals fall with great flamboyance. The crowd cheer, the Indian section of it, particularly. And that again was a stroke that no other bad. That's where in the world today could play, I dare say. Fraser from the nursery and bows to him, and Azrudin flicked it away, and there's his hundred. As good a hundred as you will ever have seen. Ficked out towards the midwicked boundary for three runs. Maurice the field right us in front of the grandstand,

and listen to the reception just for a second for Mohammed Azuridin. Well, I've been speaking to Mohamed Azarazirin. He was captain in this game, of course, well before his fall from grace. for match fixing. But I asked him why he put England into bat on that first day. Actually, it was a team decision. It was not my decision. I mean, like, everybody discussed in the team meeting, and then it was a team decision, which I, we felt that it was a lot of over-cast condition, and then we had very good swing

bowlers, like Apollah, and then Mano Tava. So we thought we would take the early advantage of the wicket. And we actually did, actually. I mean, only the only thing where we bothered is that drop catch of Graham Goose. How did you feel at the end of that third? sitting having putting it into bat and they scored what six hundred and fifty three for four declared did you do you feel it had a back fired a bit it's a very obvious question I felt very bad everybody you know when you when you're a captain especially the opposition side four 654 you're always in trouble so I think I felt very bad

but at the same time I was confident that because the wickets improved and then we had very good fighting side as well we didn't manage to get 400 runs but Ravi Shastri got a hundred but of course the one that everyone that everyone talked about, Azza, was your 121 that day. How do you rate that as one of your finest innings? Well, I think I would reckon it's one of the finest inning and playing at large, you know, to score an inning, I mean, to score 120 one run.

And then I think the best thing I enjoyed was that, you know, the crowd really applauded me very well right from the first ball I faced until I got out. I think that was one of the finest moment. for me and I think I would largely like to thank Zayrabad for changing my grip during one of the tours of Pakistan in 89 and after that I mean my batting I used to be a very slow back when I took at 100 and 200 balls or something but after the change in the grip then I was in the prime form you know like I was really playing very well and I think it made a lot of difference

right so Muhammad Azradin talking about that amazing century of his Jim how he was out in the end bolt by Hemmings? I mean, was it any particularly... I can't remember what sort of shot he played, but I would, as as I guess, it wasn't a defensive shot. He wasn't over-keen on too many of those. No. I don't remember I think I'm a head in my hands by then.

Well, I'll ask Eddie in a minute, because of course, then the additional drama of the follow-on. And you've got Capaldev increasingly marooned down there. They've got nine wickets down. India needing 24 runs.

to save the follow-on. The number 11's at the non-strikers end. Eddie Hemmings has four more balls who is over to bowl, and this is what Capel does. Comes Hemings and Bowels and... This is the big head. It's gone right over the side screen for six.

And a massive stroke it was. It hit the... A little bit of tarpaulin, which separates the two new stands. Just to the left of the uprights of the sort of rugby post that are made by either side of that gap there. A tremendous blur.

and it was still travelling. It would have gone halfway into the nursery ground if that hadn't stopped it. It takes capital level of 59, the total of 4.36 for nine. 4.54 is the magic figure. Hemmings Bowes, down the pitch he comes, tries it again. It's going to be another six. Over Longon.

Miles over Longon. It was about nine again, not six. Lovely, he doesn't can't hit the ball. It's the high backcliff, everything there. And now I reckon he wants a single. Sixty-five to him. What a marvelous bit of batting by Capaldave. Hemming's quite rightly giving him the bait. He comes in now and that's a bit flatter. He goes for the big hit again. He could be caught there. It's a level six. Oh, three in a row. That was lower and even harder off a ball that was not tossed up. 18 of three balls. He could equal the world record. Well, that's equaled the record for three successive sixes, the most ever hit. Sylvester Clark and Wally Hammond.

but not in the same match. This has been one of the best morning's cricket I have ever seen, I think. 448 for 9, Capald have 71 not out, and now India, from being absolutely at the gates of doom, so to speak, if you consider the follow-on in cricketing terms, potential doom anyway, now they're at the gates of paradise because they need only six more, and that could be done in one shot. It's a very difficult one.

One more ball, I think, of the other? I won, I can't read Cappoldev's. My own feeling is to go for the single now. But I think he might go for another biggie. You didn't often go for the four-sixthes in the road, you know. Well, here's the last ball, the over. Hemmings Bowles, is it? Cappledave. Going for the big hit, it's going to do it, he's done it.

He has saved the follow-on, he's broken a world record. He shakes his fist to the Indian dressing room. And if that isn't one of the most remarkable things you've ever seen or heard in cricket, I don't know what it is. Four sixes in a row, just when England seemed to have it all sewn up. Fantastic batting. Street for us. I mean, it was fabulous.

I mean, I've never seen that happen before. I don't think I'd probably ever see it happen again. They were big sixes. They weren't little ones that just, and they were all straight. Oh, magnificent. Incredible. Well, 454 for 9. opposed to Hwani. It keeps low his OB-W.

Oh, what an extraordinary game is cricket, and what a wonderful game this has been. And by one run, India have avoided the follow-on. Keppeldev walking out to a hero's reception. There we go, remarkable. Lovely memories. Love it here, Trevor there. I'm not sure if Eddie Hemings enjoyed listening to that very much. Eddie? Hello. I'm sorry to do that to you.

Why? Well, did you enjoy listening to it? It was just a fantastic memory. It was a fantastic guy. with cricket and why yeah it's not a I don't have any problem with it I mean four six is up and over it's not a problem not to me no I mean I suppose a big well it's got to rest anyway so you got some energy but it worked out well in the end didn't it I mean even though the fall on was saved England won the match I suppose you know you could you can always smile it off now can you but it must have been

at the time remarkable wasn't it when did you when did it dawn on you what Cappold Dave was was doing or did he was planning it or not After, I think it was after the second six, I turned to the skipper and said, what do they want? And he said, two more of them will do, and I thought, oh dear. And he was just sort of like a backhanded comment, but... You are laid back, Eddie, but you're also very competitive, though, aren't you? I mean, you can't have enjoyed that very much.

Well, you know that. I played against you or not. Well, exactly. So I can see that while you might have been smiling on the outside, I'm not sure that you were particularly thrilled inside, were you? Well, not, really. I wasn't sort of disappointed about it. And the really great thing that happened to me,

as soon as I walked in the dressing room, Mickie Stewart slapped me on the back and he said, you've just wanted this test match. And I thought, well, you're a little lighter, but it worked out brilliantly. And all I remember about the whole of the second innings was capital dev slogging it down, deep midwicked throat, and getting out for very few.

And that really made my test match. Yes, revenge. Four brilliant ones and then one bad one. Yeah. Was there any sort of, eye contact between you at the time. Talked me through was actually like out there in the middle when, obviously, it was pretty tense.

But, I mean, Caput also is kind of laid back sort of a character, isn't I mean? Was he smiling at you? No, there was no eye contact. That wasn't, I don't think that was me. I mean, the odd word now and again, but it wasn't really. They were poor, great shots. And we've got to remember that the boundary was very short at Lord's

at that period of time. Yeah. Because they were doing all the reconstruction of the nurse. You helped knock it down, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. So he's just to remember these little things. He probably would have been caught at least half of once, perhaps.

Goethe, what were you thinking on the fours? He was just great batting and, you know, and I must admit I didn't roll negatively. I don't think at all. I saw it again the other day and I thought, oh my God. Perhaps I should have fired it down the leg side, but then again it was, you know, just not the way really. What were you thinking, Gucci? Well, I was thinking we need a taller fielder at long on, actually, but... Well, I don't know that the first, the second or the third.

Well, it was, I was a bit peeved at the time, not because you'd hit for four or six years, but I thought I'd caught Capald Dev, you see, a few overs before, at Slip off a Gus. And I remember going to Nigel Ploos, the umpire, a couple stood his ground, which is fair enough. My hands were on the ground, and it went straight in, and I said to Nigel Ploos, what about that, it's catching, I caught that, and he walked over to Dickie Bird at Square Leg. And Nigel said, Dickie, he said, what about that catch? And he said, Nigel, I can't help you. Oh, that's nice.

So we had to carry on bowling. So I was fuming a bit with that. And then with Eddie, you know, obviously he was trying to lure Capul. Well, he lured him all right. Very, very harsh, I reckon that is good. Anyway, Eddie, look, thanks ever so much for joining us. It's really good to talk to you and get your memories of that day. I've also been talking to, well, the other main component, if you like, of that sensational over.

Capel Dev, and this is his... take on that occasion. First two-sixes I stand. I think, let's be put it, very honest and say. I just given an impression, first two balls, whatever three-ball, pulled those on, so I'll defense. And then I have made up my mind next to, I will try to go for it,

because I have to take a little bit of chances. Third and fourth, I think, I don't know what happened. It's just, you know, my reflexes took over. The ball was caught, and the string was there. so I had a lucky day that. Was there anything that Eddie could have done? Any place he could have put the ball, that fourth one

maybe, that you wouldn't have had it for six or were you just going then anyway? Had adrenaline taken over? I think he done this best if we recap the story. I think it was on very over-pitch ball, but much quicker so I didn't have to really go for

it. I just have to swing like a golf club. And the ball was there. So I think, again, some of the days in your life comes out, whatever you do, everything comes to your side. Do you still talk to Eddie about it? Have you, have you chatted it through? What was it like afterwards, for instance? You have a bit of a joke about it? I think you can't really. The donors always feel very disgusting at that stage. But, you know, now we can laugh at all and talk about that. I think at that moment, you are angry or frustrated

and say, what's the hell I done that? All those things. Capitalist, love to talk to you. Thank you so much for joining us. It's really good of you. Thank you very much. Well, time's marching on, but of course, okay, follow-on avoided. Didn't you go again to back again? Fill your boots.

And you're going to get another hundred goche. I mean, it really is greedy. That is greed. Well, I said, you know, I was a little bit angry because of the catch, which I thought was a good catch, which would have made India follow-on. And then, of course, Eddie getting hit, which I wasn't that upset about. But we had to go on and move it on, and myself and Athas managed to put on a pretty good partnership. We wanted to win the game.

It was the first test. of the series. You have to make your mark. You have to, you know, set your plan. And as again, I was brought up at Essex trying to win matches. So we had to go for it. And we did, and it worked out pretty well. Yeah. So there you go. You set it up. India bowled out for 224.

But we've talked an awful lot about batting. And indeed, of course, Eddie Henning's bowling. But what a catch as well. I mean, let's not forget this. Awani Bowles. Gives that a lot of air. And Lamb lifts it towards long-off. Is he going to be caught? Sprinting in there. Two-fielders going for it. Oh, a wonderful catch by 10-ball.

Fantastic one-handed catch. It was one of those that just either sticks or goes past the hand for four runs, but he sprinted in from long off and held it at full pelt in his right hand, low to the ground. It was a phenomenal catch. And this match has had so much wonderful cricket that it's almost as a forgetting All the good things of summer in one game. There we go. England winning by 247 runs. One of the great tests?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, we've been talking a lot about batting hundreds, but I mean, you know, Gus is sitting here, and he got eight wickets in that match. And you know as a bowler as well that lords can be a very flat wicket. That particular match, it was flat. And it's bowlers who win new matches in those conditions. And certainly Gus was his best in that test match,

you know, naggingly accurate, aggressive, getting the ball to bounce and batsman win matches often on wickets which are bowler friendly where the ball's a low scoring match and the ball's nipping around a bit but certainly on flat wickets

you know you need someone to find that bit extra and all our bowlers found a bit extra in this match and the game a great match ended in a classical way I'd say Gucci's match run out

there's a very real thing ball hits the mid off he swoops round knocks middle stump out of the ground there's a magnificent pitcher I think somewhere at Lourdes of Eddie sort of jumping out of the way and the stump cartwheeling out of the ground

and a brilliant match ended in a spectacular fashion and fitting that Gucci should do it. Thanks, Jones. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Great memories of that 1990 test at Lords. Well, earlier today I was also joined by Andy Zaltzman, Vic Marks and Phil Tuffanel to share some more memories of that.

I was 12 mad for that game. You were. Yeah, I was indeed. You were. I was in the comedy box I was one of my early commentary instruments What a game it was

I mean I had such great things in it I know the bit that Andy's really going to love it's Eddie Hemings Bowling to Capald Dev With 24 required to save the follow-on And Capald Dev blocks the first two balls of the over Narendra Hawanis at the other end

And he really couldn't bat I mean we're talking sort of Jasperit bumra Chris Martin type bat And then Capald Dev proceeded Andy? To do a Carlos Brathaway? Yes, four six is in four balls. I don't want to diminish the year, but actually there was a very short boundary at that end

because they were building the stand that's right. That's right. So he picked his, you know, he picked his direction very well. Dot, dot, right I'm going to hit the last four balls for six and it was, I think it was exactly 24 they needed exactly 24 and although the boundary was short, the ball went

a long way over here. And then the very next ball Fraser had Hawani caught behind I think they avoided the follow-on by I reckon that in a funny sort of way because England were desperate to make them follow-on and none of the boys fancied it they wanted so if anything they came in

and sort of went good if you know what I mean like they do now you know what I mean because it's got a lot of runs I mean they've been out there quite a long time haven't they've been out there but then Gucci said we all we are going to make them follow on whatever so if there would be one you don't they've just done it I mean, I obviously remember Gooch's...

He got 100 in the second innings, of course. So I remember phenomenal batting from Gooch, but in a way, the innings I remember was from Azarudin. Oh, yes. Who was captain, and he put England into bat. And Bishon Bady was the team manager-stroke coach. And he completely deserted Azar during the game. I know if you remember that, but...

You know, sort of saying, I don't know what he was doing, putting them into bat. It's a ridiculous. decision. Asso was furious that he'd been deserted by his management and he came out and he hit an angry, brilliant. About a hundred and something, 180 or something.

121 of 11 balls. It's not bad when you're trying to save the game. 120 of 111. And that was a spectacular innings. But there weren't many dull periods. I don't think Sibley played that game. No. No. England made 653 for 4 at just over 4.

four and over. India 454 all out at just under four and over. England then 272 for four at five and over. And then on the final day, England bowled India out for 224. And they still went at 3.6 when they were desperately trying to... Fast out of field. And I could still... And I can still, as you say, I can still remember... I think it might have been Angus, my mate Angus, who was fielding at deep mid-on.

And he kept having a sort of put a hard hat on to go and get them four. Because they were building, you're right? He had to go into the buildings. Oh, no. Scrabbling around in the rubble. And they'd come out, put his hard hat back down, and throw the ball back. Put on a high-vis jacket as well before going in. I mean, I have an irritated memory from that match.

And, I mean, it's a long time ago now, and so I'm sure the producer of the BBC cricket won't mind me saying it, and I don't hold it against him personally. But as a man who didn't see, it was a little bit too young to see John Edrich's 300 against New Zealand, which was the previous England triple century. I was 21 at the time,

and it was summer holiday from university, and I was watching it very excitedly, as Gooch got nearer and nearer and nearer to the landmark. And I think it was, was he on like 299 at T? Or it was very, very late 290s at T on what would have been the second day. and really excited looking forward to it

I pulled myself a glass of wine this is it I could finally see in English when get 300 get back into the sitting room it's 4 o'clock why am I seeing Eve Pollard on my screen and she was at Royal Ascot

talking about whether spots or stripes were in this summer and furiously I took to the phones the thing you did in those days got out the phone book Literally, BBC. You know?

Here's a number. 8.1-8055, same number for Swapshop. Wrang it up. Apparently my dad in Warwickshire at exactly the same time was on the phone to them with exactly the same complaint,

which was why am I hearing somebody talking to me about fashion when there's an Englishman on 299 and a test match. Anoyed from Wandsworth. Anoyed from Wandsworth. And Warrickshire, as it turned out. So, yeah, the BBC had had two Norcrosses.

to contend with on that occasion. He absolutely just whopped it though. Yeah, well you actually slog it No. He just, it was that on drive I always remember that he sort of, you know, that stance when he stood up and the bat was there and the old moustache and then just get across in that big

old, big old turbo surrogh, yeah. Surrogs just went boom, smacked them straight back down the ground. Andy, you were talking about stretches of matches where people have really excelled. I would have thought that sort of 1990 to 92 or so

would have been a really purple patch for Gooch you've got the 150 Will Boys talk about at Headingley the following year and then that perhaps even more brilliant or just as brilliant 135 was it against Pakistan also at Headingley you've got that incredible summer I mean they even

brought out VHS videos the summer of Gooch and bearing in mind that he's not a young man at this stage is he I mean he's well into his 30s approaching 40 and that back end Gucci's Indian summer because our producer

of course had a copy and he watched it so many times you can't really see anything on it now it's faded away you can't really record on it he scored over a thousand runs in the six tests that summer

they had a three test series with New Zealand I think from memory he'd started the summer with a duck is that the most number of runs in an English summer it must be so Bradman had 9774

so Goochie's done Sir Don yes he had one extra match yeah so don't well it might be too yeah in this one wow

not many have done sir don't um the bradders wow before the that summer Gooch had you know

you might view him as something of a underachiever for England his average was around about 36 37 I think he's got 800s in 75 tests and then he had this extraordinary period over

three or so years in the early 90s when he became the best batsman in the world and had one of the greatest sequences in England players ever had. He was averaging sort of 70-od in that bit, wasn't it? Are you able to get those up for us before we... I couldn't always remember sitting in the dressing room when I play

with Gucci. I mean, as you say, later on in his career as well, really, wasn't it? Because he started his England career. He got a pair against... He didn't really come back to... It's 15 years earlier, almost. Yeah, there you go. So the boys used to hang around a long time in the old days, didn't it?

They played for a good number of years. But, I mean, I can always remember I was always sort of sitting there you know, don't get out, Gucci, don't get out. You know what I mean? And you just always felt in a test match during those sort of like late 80s or 90s, you know, when Gucci got out, it was kind of done. When Gucci got out, you had to think about putting your own pants off.

Well, yeah, I know. We were talking about contrasting characters a bit in this last hour or so. And you and Gouch strike me as quite contrasting character. Well, yeah, I mean, we were a little bit, you know. I mean, we were. We get all very well now, funny enough. But, I mean, that was... But he wanted a different view, perhaps,

to the prevailing attitude at the time around... Yes, very much so. He wanted, you know, people to be fit, you know what I mean? He wanted, you know, people to be professional and, you know, eat well and, you know, work hard and all those kind of things and train. And, you know, there might have been a few. Not me. I was only a boy, not me?

I didn't say boot with cooos, really. You know, but then there might have been a few sort of like, well, actually, you know, I mean, I'm quite enjoying. going down at the wineries and everything, I'd rather be doing that. Well, he stamped his authority on the team, didn't he? I mean, there's been a bit of a chat, obviously, about the 89-90 series

out in the West Indies, and a very odd-looking side actually went out, which I presume was Gooch-inspired, was it? A culmination of Gooch from Mickey Stewart. I think Ian thought he was going to go on that tour. He wanted to go on that tour, and they didn't pick him. Gower, likewise.

Yes. Rob Bailey, Nassar Usain, went on that tour. Wade Larkins. So, I mean, when Ian was captain in the West Indies, him and Gouche fell out a little bit because Ian chastised Gucci for going on all these early morning runs on the basis that, you know, you're using up too much energy going on these early morning runs, which I think might have been, in the broad, a slightly flawed argument. So they had different approaches throughout their careers. but no, he even wanted to go on those tours

but that was quite a turning point that West Indies tour 89, 90 England winning that first test competing really well and Mickey Stewart hand more firmly on the reins and there was a gentle

a bit of a revival there and then who'd be playing the summer well 1990s New Zealand and India that's when when Gooch came back so I'm sort of interested to see I guess that's sort of from what would be 1990

because that series was in the autumn through for the next few years and how he is captain seemed to kind of stamp his authority on it because in 91 that's when England actually draw a series with the West Indies which seemed impossible riches

I mean throughout my life at that point 1976 was my first series all I'd seen was England broadly being hammered I mean 1980 they had a good series and only lost one nil but essentially England would lose heavily to the West Indies and then suddenly in 1991 we were talking about this the other night

weren't we at the bar how Andy and I remembered your six-for at the Oval so well because it was part of what had England drawing a series against the West Indies which was almost like I don't think Beefie is world beating brilliant Well I can remember

I can remember actually that Beefy I don't think he'd ever drawn it or a test series against the West Indies because he came up up to me after the game and, you know, we was all having a bit of a beer after the game and everything, and he's patting me on and back,

he said, well done, mate. He said, that's the first time I've ever... Not lost. Not lost, yes. Well, England hadn't won a test against West Indies before the first test of that 91 summer since 1974, and they hadn't won a home test since 1969

against them, so it would have been a tough time to be an England player against the West Indies. But, you know, that was huge as evidence, wasn't there? Because in 89-90, they famously won that first test to Sabina Park and actually just as famously were denied victory in the Desmond Hayes. Yeah, Desmond Hayes. Yeah. By some

crafty tactics but, you know, entirely to be expected. And then it all fell apart. Yeah. Then it all fell apart in Australia. Well, inevitably, yes. So we just replaced one bogey man with another one or anything. The Australian said came to the force. And in the 1989 summer

before that, Gooch had averaged 20 in the five tests he played against Australia and, you know, he was in his mid-third 30s, and you might have thought that could be the end of him. Yeah? So did you get us up the sort of the Gooch Purple Patch? The peak 33. Let's call that stat, a peak 33.

He averaged 61.8, so that's between June 1990 and June 1994, up to the point he's got his last test under, which was a double against New Zealand in the first test of the 94 summer. See, that's not bad, is it? Tidy. Tuffa's you obviously being in the dressing room and you've been reporting on it so much What was the Were there tensions at all?

Because you know you're looking at a very different vision Of the way England should go, aren't you? Yeah In Gooch from Gower There's an awful lot of talk about You know, Gower's non-selection And Gooch being sort of Part responsible for that

We just touched on that And that 1990 tour party to the West Indies Were there Were there sort of tensions around his methodology? I think there might have been, as you said, I was a bit of a youngster in those days, but what I did,

he sort of, we didn't really sort of see much of him, you know what I mean? He looked like he had a lot on his plate. He was always running. Yeah, he was either running past, or he just looked like he had a lot on his plate, you know what I mean?

And I think that it wore him down a little bit, perhaps. Would that be fair enough to say? Yeah, well, the Australian tour, a lot of people didn't it and in a way you could possibly simplify it

but you always think of mentioning John Morris of the airplane with Gower on that tour and the reaction even at the time I thought

hang on a minute it's a draconian reaction to this and up until that point in his own way Gower had played brilliantly in that test series he got 100 at Melbourne

and he got runs in the first two matches. Sydney as well. And they took a very harsh view of that flight over the skies of... Carrava Park or that's it. Up in Queensland. And in a sense, I just felt the tour is now disintegrating. I mean, Gower would have not been the... Gare was not wittingly disruptive, I imagine,

but he was his own man. Yes, he was. And he was going to play... his cricket and prepare for his cricket in his own way. But up until then he batted beautifully, as he often did in Australia. He had a great record in Australia. Was that the tour when he flicked one down to Long Island?

Well, the next game, Adelaide, after the Bruhaha he's got fined and all that and he's in disgrace and they've reacted very harshly to what ostensibly was quite a good jake. Athens very cunningly was invited to go up with Gabby, he said, no, no, no, thanks. Oh, yeah, that's clever.

But John Morris said, oh yeah, that'd be nice. And then the very next game, of course, Adelaide, Gare's there and he's just flicks. I mean, he doesn't do it on purpose, but it happens. No. He flicksable, the Merv, he used to the specially positioned leg gullion. Gouche and Gare have got to walk off, Gare having been dismissed.

And, you know, the tour was going in the wrong direction from thereafter. We were all actually in the Adelaide dressing room shouting, actually. die don't touch it Don't do it With one ball to go Have you seen you He's there

Doy straight to it So there was a little bit of tension There was a bit of tension And that was then Which is then quite awkward Then between senior guys Because as you said We were just all little fellas

Really sort of nipping out And trying to sort of do our own little thing So that was our little mob You know what I mean and sort of like, but then when, you know, in team meetings and things like that, you do need that sort of core of senior guys behind, you know, the skipper sort of laying down the laws that he's trying to sort of build a team. And then that sort of carried over, we were talking about the India tour before we came on,

where they famously left out. That guy I wanted to go on that India tour. I always remember there's John Thickness, do you remember? Yes, I don't. Hicketts. And Ted Dexter was the chairman of selectors, and they'd be. Pick the team, no go. And Thickness was at the press conference, and he said,

Ted, how is it that you were going to tour India with all the spinners and everything? You're going to go there without one test class left-hander in your squad. And Dexter, he spotted a half volley from Thickness. He said, John, I think you'll find Neil Fairbrothers in the team. And Thickness said, I said, test class, test. harsh it's a bit harsh well I think that was a tour party

that caused that letter to the MCC didn't that I mean I did everything I think I actually signed it that was on news night and everything wasn't it and all this kind of stuff we go where's Gower and then Donald Trealford the editor of the Observe at the time

was leading the charge for special general meetings about the selection I think there were you know what you call it and then I think that Gucci then on that 92 tour got very poor

didn't he? Well, he had the prawns in Chennai. Yes, that's right. And I think on the Aussie tour, no, oh, didn't he? Oh, he hurt his hand, didn't he? Yeah, and he got blood poisoning or something. Yeah, and Alan Nam had to take him. Yes, I think that might be the Aussie trip. Oh, I can't remember. It's too far back.

There are a lot of hands got broken. His hand got broken in the West Indies as well, didn't it? He got blood poisoning somewhere, and we didn't really see much of him, you know what I mean, and he was appalling. And then Lammy got into trouble because he'd gone to Packer's casino, when he was not out overnight, is that right? Is that the same tour? It's amazing how you remember tours.

It's not the brilliant hundred, isn't it? It's the prawns in Chennai, in the casino in wherever it is. We were winning that game. We were winning that game. And then first over, I think Greg Matthews was bold lammy, great player lambing. And they slapped long up straight to point. And then we've all sort of like, you know, disintegrated from this really position of strength. And then they found that out.

And in the newspapers in the morning, there was a great big roulette wheel. On the front page of the newspaper with all the boys' faces, you know, as balls in the movie. I don't know. Andy, you have something for you. Just a little more on Gooch's peak. At that point, only Don Bradman had scored more in a 33-match sequence in the history of test cricket.

Well, that's amazing. A few players have done so since, including Lara, Sangha-Kara, Steve Smith, Mahala Jai, Warden, Ricky Ponting. Well, you're talking about the legends of the game. There, we've put with some fine players. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Look out for more Test Mat special podcasts later,

including a Carlos Brathwaite special and a new Tuffers and Vaughn. BBC Sounds, music, radio podcasts. Yergan, you're a big fan of the BBC Sounds at. Oh yes, oh yes. Well, we've heard reports that you've been enjoying the Football Daily podcast on it. I loved it. That makes me quite happy. be the honest.

Jose, Football Daily is bringing top analysis and comment on BBC Sounds. How do you feel about that? Of course, it's the best thing in football. Are you a fan, or Lee? Yeah, I love that. Wow, this is massive. Pep, Football Daily has some big-named guests. Are you excited to listen?

This is a good news for us. The team is really good. Listen to the Football Daily podcast on the BBC Sounds app.