Test Match Special - Remembering Graham Thorpe

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

Jonathan Agnew looks back on Graham Thorpe's life with Alastair Cook, Phil Tufnell, and Thorpe's former captain Michael Vaughan.Thorpe’s former PE teacher Simon Sherborne, who gave him his first opportunity for representative cricket with Surrey, remembers meeting Graham as a promising 11 year old, and Mark Ramprakash discusses the life of his childhood friend.

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from BBC Radio 5 Live. Now before play today, we had a minute's applause in memory of the former England player, Graham Thorpe, whose death was announced a couple of weeks ago. He was only 55, and both sides are also wearing black armbands to pay tribute. Thorpe played 100 test matches at 82 One Day internationals for England, as well as enjoying a long and successful county career with Surrey. After retiring in 2005, he did do some media work,

including a few games with us on the BBC, but it was coaching, which had become his second career, eventually working with England, where he played a part in the 2019 World Cup winning campaign before assisting Chris Silverwood, including stepping in for him in Sydney on the Ashes Tour of 2021-22, it was the only test that England didn't lose in that series.

But for a generation of cricket fans, thought provided hope in a largely unsuccessful England side. He played numerous crucial innings from a debut century in The Ashes, to a critical knock in Karachi. Here comes Julian again. Left arm over the wicket. And this ball is a short one that's pulled away,

or in fact it was hit in the air. Now it's going to bounce over Slater's head, and that's his hundred. Unbelievable way to get it. It was in the air. Slater thought he had a chance of catching it. He moved in, then stopped realizing that he wouldn't. It bounced straight over his head,

and Thorpe has made 100 in his first test. 101 what a great way to start a test career and let's let the crowd tell you the tale and Thorpe takes a short single on the offside he's got his hundred his first hundred in Australia his second test hundred he is celebrating before he completes the runs a quick dab away on the offside he gets the run that takes him ground with I'm sure that's a very big moment for English cricket Certainly a big moment for Graham Thorpe. So Morrison is on his way.

Thorpe has 97. He drives through the offside. That'll be it. A great roar from the Barmi Army who stand and applaud Graham Thorpe. Who is absolutely thrilled. He's waving his bat. He gestured there to the England dressing room.

He's pulled off his helmet. And a bit of a hug there from Dominic. Cork his partner. All around the ground. People rise to Graham Thorpe, who's had a battle. Astell, it is in both Thorpeauk, that round the corner. There it is. That's his 200.

It goes down to fine leg and drum the fielder there. Thorpe waves his bat. He looks like a sort of animated, I don't quite know what, takes off his crash helmet, waves his bat, his hands his crash helmet, the England dressing room chair,

the stand at the far end chairs to Dad's army all the Barmy army, and Hussein has clapped his hands and brought them in. Kaiser Abbas comes in to bolt of Thorpe, who is 97, Left arm over the wicket. Boll to Thorpe, who leans into an on-drive.

It's going all the way down to the long-on boundary. It may pull up just short. It's been caught up just yards inside the boundary. But Thorpe is back for his third run. That takes him to his hundred, a well-earned 100 for Graham Thorpe. And what a splendid rescue act he's played for England. In comes Sackley now, and Bowles to Thorpe. Thorpe goes back.

And those are the winning runs. They've crossed for the single. They're back for the second. Graham Thorpe has won. England have won for the first time in Pakistan. since Ted Dexter's side, one here in 1961, 62. And England have won with two overs and three balls to spare. Thorpe batting alongside Nassah Hussein at the end in the dark in Karachi,

and it was dark. And I've been speaking to NASA about his memories of Graham and that match in Pakistan. He was seen him better than I was. I think he said after, actually, when someone asked him about my innings. He said something like, well, Nass had been batting in the dark for the last year anyway. So I think he said that to me as I arrived at the crease. I just remember how composed he was. That winter was incredible, actually.

Graham, the way he batted that whole winter from, whether it be Sri Lanka, Pakistan, wherever, his playing of spin and his meticulous attention to detail and the way he played, some of the great spinners on some real spinning pitches, the way he played Murley in the, in the Sri Lanka. series and the way he batted in Karachi. He just timed that innings perfectly. He was someone that was always up for that sort of innings. He loved the battle. He loved, you know, he loved the fact that the light was closing in. He loved, Moin was having a go at him at one stage. Steve Buckner stepped in and said, Moen, you're going to finish this innings. Whatever happens, we're not going off for light. I could not think of a better player. Maybe Atherton.

Ath had that sort of character about him as well, if you go to Johannesburg or whatever. But in that sort of situation, someone who was up for a fight, I thought was always up for that sort of battle. Was he a hard practiser? I mean, you talk about playing Murieli and so on, was that as a result of hours spent in the nets?

Not just a hard practiser. He was someone at attention to detail, so when we arrived in Sri Lanka, he went straight in the nets with spikes on and scuffed up areas that he knew Murali he would be landing. a little bit wider because he spun it so much but he wanted to make practice as hard as possible almost exaggerated practice because he knew us facing our own spinners was going to be nothing in

preparation for facing more leave so he went into the net scuffed it up him and trez i think it was and made sure that we would get difficult practice so that almost when we went into a match situation it would feel that little bit easier so he was very fit supremely fit to play those innings that he did in that heat and humidity that winter you know the work he'd done running up hills he used to love running up sand dunes in Surrey or whatever it was his fitness came from football he played a lot of football in his youth but he was very fit and he was just a quality player he could get you the the slowest hundred in Lahore where he got one boundary in his hundred he

got one after getting hundred and then he could go you know Christchurch or whatever and get double hundred in 230 deliveries it just showed that he could play the situation so, so well. And you two are linked, aren't you, really? There's so many things together. Birmingham against Australia, that famous partnership. Yeah, I was thinking back on it the other day, and I was at the other end on his test debut.

I was at the other end when he got to 100. Obviously, the edge passed him when he got 138 and I got a double. It's not just that winning and beating that great Australian side, having just beaten them in the one days, you know, for like a couple of weeks we felt like we can beat Australia here. This is good fun, you know, batting against Warner McGraw, Gillespie and batting with your best mate at the other end, walking off in Karachi like you've mentioned,

walking off my last test innings, who happened to be there, and my last test innings was Thorpe at the other end. I think the reason for that was, I think we both felt very comfortable with each other. Myself in particular, I was quite a complicated cricketer batter. I had so many things going on in my head, you know, I was a worrier, and whether it be off the field in his room playing with our bat handles and our bats or on the field when I arrived at the crease or he arrived at the crease you just felt so comfortable that Strauss run out as an example of that I just run Strauss out second innings Lord you know the local lad who was going to get two hundreds in the game on debut and I was down really down upset and Thorpey arrived and he sensed I was upset and he just went NAS get over yourself he gave me a right rollicking get over yourself mate there's a a test match to win here and that pretty much summed him up really you know he was a real tough nut that at times he'd put his arm around you you know as captain when i used to knock on his door

and we used to share a glass of red or something and we'd sit there chatting he'd put his arm around you and tell you the good things you were doing but at times he would he would tell you come on get over yourself and and he was very good at putting things back then very good well at putting things into perspective. Yeah, and yet, obviously, serious issues behind the scenes in his personal life. I mean, it's difficult to put those two things together because like you, a lot of people talked about

how that real organised side and how he had his mind so well focused on cricket and there was clearly issues away from that. Yeah, and he was, he'd struggled with off-the-field stuff. What I say with that is that you'd play with Atherton or Stuart and Ath had a bad back and, you know, there's various things going on off the field that they would turn up and they would cope very well with. Graham actually, if there was anything not quite right away from cricket, you just had to let him go. Whether it be his back, he suffered from

real back problems and if he was slightly under par with his back, you knew he wouldn't be there for you or obviously his family life and issues that were going on away from cricket. He rang me up on a couple of times and just said, look, I'm sorry, I don't feel I can go on this tour or whatever. So, you know, listen, I played with him in good times and bad. You know, it just shows mental health, mental illness. Here is one of the toughest cricketers I ever played with, and for him to go through what he did in the end just shows that it's an illness really. stuff about man up and get over it and all that sort of stuff. You know, Graham thought was one of the toughest I ever played with

and, you know, he struggled towards the end. So it's all very, very sad, aggers. But, you know, I will remember the good times that we share together. And it's not just cricketing times, like I say, those times in his room that we were together, chatting away. he was a really good good company never said anything in team meetings never said a word in team meetings but yet when you wanted to have a proper chat about cricket and life and whatever he was always there for you and i think what it endeared in most of the british public and

fans and cricket fans was his toughness his tough runs we were often 30 for two at best in that era and he would walk out there with that feeler headband on and that kookabra bubble that and the three-quarter length sleeves that he loved to wear. And he showed how important it was, how much character he had. I think Goffey said to me, and asked Goffey, what do you look for in a teammate? And he said, he pointed over to Thorpe, or looked over to Thorpe, and said,

just look at that little man in the corner. When we push him out of that door at 30 for two, you know he's up for a fight in a battle. When you're talking about some of the great bowlers, you're talking about McGarr and Warren, Wazim, Wackart, you know, Donald, Pollock. You go through every side, they had some great fast bowlers and spinners, Murali, whoever you want to talk about Saki and Mushtak Ahmed, all of them,

Waka, Wazim, you're pushing him out the door against some of the toughest bowlers in a tough situation where England were up against it yet again and thought would invariably deliver. And the stats tell you that, average 45 in 100 test matches, that is a remarkable achievement. NASA Hussein and we'll hear from more of Thorpe's former teammates in a few minutes But first let's go right back I've been speaking to Thorpe's former PE teacher Simon Sherbourne

Who gave him his first opportunity for representative cricket with Surrey Well he arrived at waden school where I'd been a PE teacher for about four years And I was determined to give any promising youngster the opportunity to play representative sport as I had done with the Surrey Schools Cricket. So, yeah, he was an 11-year-old. This would have been 1980, and he announced himself as confident that he would play for England. I mean, he really sort of meant it, did he? Absolutely.

And he was absolutely convinced that that's what he would do, but he was unsure which sport, so he was keeping various options open, including football. and as we know he went on to get offers of professional football at a couple of clubs and play England's schools football. So he was a prodigious talent. Following two older brothers too, which actually is often not an easy thing to do. Well, it's not, but if you've got the level of ability that he had and you've got those brothers wanting to play football and cricket with you all the time.

And for example, you know, he lived very close to Recklesham Cricket Club where he played his first village cricket. But he lived in a, he had a back garden that was very long and thin, and they used to play cricket all summer evenings. And that's when he decided that being a left-hander was better than being a right-hander because of the configuration of his garden. And so he actually changed from being a natural right-hander to becoming a left-hander, because he could see that was the way to go. And his development at school was just brilliant to follow and support and push. But of course, it went alongside the work that the village clubs were doing.

His mum and dad were both involved at Recklesham Cricket Club. And he played in that league, the I-Ansen League, at 13, and scored 100 in his first year. So he was clearly a talent very early on. And brimming with self-confidence. That was the thing that was fantastic to watch and see. And it's just such a sadness that. that self-confidence clearly, you know, you know, failed him in later years.

Wait, when you first saw him, when you first saw him bat, you could see there was something special. You could, but because my job was actually to teach him how to bat and I can remember in the gym having arguments for how, you know, his backlift,

because he thought the way I was teaching, it wasn't exactly the way he wanted to do it. He was very clear in his own mind about how he wanted to play. But by and large, he was, brilliant to work with because, you know, that leaven of talent and commitment is brilliant for any PE teacher to watch and support. And as any PE teacher will tell you, most brilliant youngsters sort of normally get caught up by their peers after, you know, a year or so.

They're just a year ahead of themselves. But he never was. He just kept going and every opportunity he got, he delivered all the way through to test cricket. You know, as we know, he scored a hundred in his debut. at Trump Bridge, which is brilliant. He, to use the word rebellious streak, would be over-egging it, but he was his own man, Graham. Now, was that evident when he was a child as well?

It was indeed. He was always clear in his own mind how he wanted to go about things, but he and I fell out a little when he was 16, because he got the opportunity, which I thought was the opportunity of a lifetime. Surrey School's cricket were touring Australia. Now, if I tell you the manager was Mickey Stewart, and the coach was Jeff Arnold, and Arthur McIntyre was also one of the staff. We're talking about icons of cricket that wanted him to go to Australia, and he turned them down as a 16-year-old. And I said, what are you doing, Graham?

Because this is your big moment. You do not turn these sorts of people down. You know, these people, this is your opportunity. And he was determined. He said, no, I'm going to be making the numbers up. I shall be batting middle to late order. And I don't want to do that. He said, they'll go in two years' time, and I'll go then, and I'll top the averages.

So he was so determined to plow his own furrow that in two years' time, he was called up for sorry, so he knew where he was going, and he was exactly right. So that gives you an idea of just how. how determined he was. And, you know, it was excellent to see him being proved right. Yes. And, of course, he was actually picked as an all-rounder, wasn't he? Well, that's right.

Initially, for Surrey, I mean, he could bowl, too. He could, and it was only his bad back that sort of really prevented him from doing more of that. You know, he suffered with a bad back and sort of cut the bowling out. But yes, he was. He was absolutely an all-rounder. If you had to put, I know, into a sentence, your thoughts, your memories, what really stands out for you about Graham Thorpe? Well, what would it be?

Well, you know, it was his prodigious talent and the self-confidence he had to fulfill his ambition. He knew exactly what he wanted to do, and his focus was terrific. And that led him to be seen as a little bit sort of, arrogant at times, but he was never loud. He didn't like speaking an awful lot. He had a little bit of a lisp, and so he didn't, you know, he wasn't boastful at all, but he was absolutely determined. And the way he batted for England in the early days when England was really struggling, sort of exemplified his attitude. He was tough and determined. And, yeah, he was a joy to work with with a school, a joy to follow in his career.

That's Simon Sherbourne who helped Thorpe into the Surrey systems. Let's speak to one of Thorpe's Surrey and England teammates, Mark Rambrakash now, who joins us on the line. Mark, thank you for joining us to talk about, obviously, something's extremely difficult and personal for you. But you and Graham Thorpe go right back, don't you? Under 12s? Yes, yes, that's right. Yes, afternoon, Agas. Yeah, very fun memories of playing against Graham for Middlesexbury, Surrey, under 12.

and we sort of continued to play against each other throughout our teenage years we probably became a bit more closer for England under 19s we played a lot with England Lions and then of course in the full side so got to know him very well we were only a month apart

in terms of birthdays but that took him into the year above me at school he was a keen footballer so we both shared a love of football so we had things in common and so yes we actually coached together as well he was very instrumental in terms of me going on to become a coach after my career and worked very closely with him yeah we're hearing from his teacher there mark about how very driven he was as a youngster determined to to make the grade was that

how you remember him playing through that system as youngsters well i do remember that he was originally an all-rounder. I think he opened the bowling for the Surrey age groups with perhaps Martin Bignor at the other end, I think it was. Well, David Gow was his first first-class wicked. Well, that's quite something. He was a fine player. But I mean, I think he was sort of batting more mid-to-lower order and a bit of an all-rounder. I think what marked Graham out was when he got up to 18, 19, 20 and experienced some first-class. cricket. I think he was very smart and you look at the best players that I've come across and they learn quickly. They take on information quickly and then use it. Graham realized what he had to

become really good at if he was going to reach the top level, not just reach it, but be very successful. And he worked very, very hard on his backfoot game. I mean, if anyone has remembers his best innings, you know, throughout the 90s in particular, um, he worked. And he worked very, very hard on his backfoot game. I mean, if anyone has remember his best innings, you know, throughout the 90s in particular. It was full of swashbuckling, pull shots, cut shots, and he was also a very adept player of quality spin bowling. And those two things he worked very, very hard on and became brilliant in those two disciplines, which really held him in very good stead for his international career.

I was looking at a lovely photograph of him giving you a big hug in Barbados, when he got your first test century. That must be a very special moment. What was he like to bat with? Yes, well, without doubt, one of my favorites people to bat with because he was in control. He would often, you know, one of the few English players sort of take on the quicks and you sort of felt confident at the other end.

But he was also very adept at getting singles, rotating the strike. You know, I'm sure I've got a lot of. freebies because of the left and right hand combination. And he was someone who was at the Cree's focused, but had a good sense of humor as well at the right time. And so that really helped settle me down. So without doubt, one of the favorite people that I remember batting with. And I can remember innings, yes, at Barbados, unless we're not forgetting that innings,

he actually had to go off the field for a back spasm. And he came back and still got a hundred, which was a monumental effort. I was with him. I remember being at the other end and keeping company for a little while in Perth when we saw Glenn McGrath in his early days on a quick bouncing one at Perth. And also Shane Warren played in that game. I mean, Graham played. He's got a stellar record and he played throughout the 90s, which was an era rich in test cricket. We saw West Indies were still world champions. I've just mentioned about Warren and McGraw, how they came through. South Africa's reemerger. with a terrific pace attack. And so Graham's record throughout the 90s, he is truly one of the great players of that era. Did you know, Mark, it might be a different question, but did you know that there were issues behind the scenes?

And do you think that he would have been better looked after in this era? Well, we all knew of the terrible divorce he went through. And I don't think he ever truly. don't think he ever truly got over that. His first marriage ended very, very badly. He was not allowed to see his children for long periods and as a result never managed to have a relationship with them. I don't think he truly got over that. And you were pretty much left on your own to just get on with it. So we didn't have the, perhaps the support, the level of support

and expertise available nowadays. So, you know, I heard, the interview that you did earlier, Graham was his own man. Yes. But sometimes being a bit introverted, you know, you can keep things close to your chest and maybe not share them and look for help. But I think that was a very traumatic time in his life. Of course, he came back. He also had fitness problems with his back throughout his career.

He still continued to play. And I think in a way, I saw a different Graham when he became a coach. because he was in a wonderful position. Not many players can be a great player but also a great coach and he was a great coach. Spent a huge amount of time with the young Ben Stokes and Joe Root and Josh Butler and all the rest of them. Very, very good at communicating, very likable,

you know, challenge the players but did it in a nice way. As a result, he was very, very much, you know, liked as a coach. And I think he was able to come out of himself a little bit more as a coach. We saw a different side of Graham. But as I say, I think that those early experiences in the 90s with the breakdown of his marriage, I'm afraid I don't think he ever really got over that.

And then, of course, other issues came along later on in life. Mark, thank you very much, indeed, for paying tribute to your friend. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Pleasure. The TMS podcast, from B. BBC Radio 5 Live.

I've got Michael Vaughan alongside me, Thorpe's former captain, of course, Phil Tuffnell, played a lot with Graham for England and Alastair, who was coached and inspired by by Graham. It's terribly moving, isn't it? I mean, all of these tributes, NASA and Mark, and talking about it, it's sort of tough as that.

That clearly takes you back to times in your hotel rooms together on tours away and trying to jolly each other along a bit. Absolutely. And there was a lot of fun. So much fun we had, you know what I mean? They were long tours in those days and you were away from home and you had to bond and form friendships very, very quickly. You know, otherwise it was just tough, hard work.

You know, we used it two or three test matches down pretty early on and you're a long way from home. So you had to, you know, really look around the dressing room and look to your mates to pull you through those tough times and that's what exactly we did. Interesting listening there about sort of keeping things bottled up inside, he did. But I think in those times, I think you had to a little bit. You know what I mean? If you said you weren't playing spin very well, well, there'd be someone going, oh, well, he can't

play spin, he won't get picked for the next test match. You know what I mean? You always had to have this kind of steely kind of sort of persona. Otherwise, you know, people were sort of like, see it as a weakness. And I think that's now what's changed a lot. You think it has, because you could be up and down. Everyone's up and down. But, you know, you had your moments. Absolutely. Do you think that the structure was in place then in those days to help Graham? No, not at all, not at all. I don't necessarily think that he had even been thought about, to be honest with you. I mean, I can remember when I had a do or two, you know what I mean, I actually got fined, you know, for sort of like having a bit, having a little bit of

a wobble in Perth and what have you, and it literally was, oh well, you know what I mean, I don't think he can come on tour again. You know what I mean? And so you just, you never ever opened yourself up to anyone. You know, and the answer was, I'm afraid, roll your sleeves up, young man. Yeah, yeah. Which in a funny sort of way, sometimes, you know, can work

because I had to sort of shake myself out of it a little bit and do that, but it doesn't work for everyone. No. Michael, I was looking up, Graham had played 57 tests. Some play, you know, as well. Sorry, sorry, sorry, to me, for there's some player, really. Yeah, of course.

He played 57 about time. You came in, so he was a very established member of the England side when you arrived. Yeah, I mean, I always, you know, going into that England side, I think there's lots of stories that, you know, new players weren't welcomed. Absolutely, I was welcomed, you know, from all the senior players. But there was something about Thorpey that, you know, he had a great mindset. As Phil's just said, he was a great player. So you kind of align yourself with the great players.

I used to watch him practice. but he had a really nice manner about the way that he played as soon as he went over the white line his eyes went and he was like right here we go we're playing competitive cricket as soon as he came back into the dressing room back in the hotel

having a drink at night it was always a little bit cheeky always lots of people and great humour and great for advice you know you get an awe and you feel so down you know test cricket it's horrible it's hard you're lonely you're in your room come and knock on downstairs

let's have a chat go and have a chat and you just say look you've got another chance. And he can't do anything about what you've just done. You've got no. You've got a, you know, second in as you can go again. So he was always giving you that great message. And I always remember in 203, I got the one-day captaincy.

And then I got the test captaincy. And I take over, and as Nasrhussein, Alex Stewart, Darren Gough, some senior guys there. And I'm a young kid, really, captain in the team. And he liked what I was trying to do. And he came and knocked on my door. And he said, Skipper, he said, I'm going to back you 100%. He said, I know what you're trying to achieve.

We want to be fitter. We want to try and play harder, cricket for a bit longer. You want England to try and play a bit more positive, a bit more expansively. There'll be the cynics out there that all say to you, oh, you can't do that. I'm going to back you 100%. Because it's absolutely the right kind of pathway for the team to go now. So he was a good mentor, good senior player.

Not one of those who's worried about the places of youngsters coming in. He was incredible. And also with the fitness, I knew he had a dodgy back. And I would say, look, Greg, when we go and do those fitness sessions, I don't expect you to do what I'm going to do. any of the younger players but just pretend you're stretching or doing something he says no worries absolutely no worries and he was just uh you know in pakistan it's one of my first tours uh that great series where he was in the dark with nassas getting the winning runs you know he was going through

a huge amount of difficulty on that tour and it was me and ashtar jars that spent most evenings playing playstation you know he was chelsea i was man united jarlo was arsenal and we spent every night in one of our rooms just playing on a playstation just trying to have a bit of fun but you could clearly see that he was going through a huge amount of strain with what was happening back home but great player but you know you talk about great teammates he was one of the great teammates because he brought everything into the team room and he gave so much back as NASA said in his interview he didn't say a great deal in team meetings but he was brilliant one-on-one one-on-one when he had you on his own he'd

open up to you you'd open up to him and you'd always I always felt when I left a conversation with Graham that I'd gained something. I took something away from that conversation. Cookie, what impacted did Graham Thorpe have on your cricket career? Well, I'm kind of the generation kind of a little bit behind

tough as and Vornier that when I was growing up, I had Gucci's mother, that first initial love of cricket. But when I really got into cricket, you know, 12, 13 year old, left-hand in badder, there was only one England cricketer that I wanted to copy. It was Graham's thoughtful. Sun hat on. Yeah, a sun hat, three-quarter-length shirts.

My mum wasn't really happy when I cut one of them up because I wanted a back like Thorpey. But, yeah, that was the score I looked out. And he was the one who did, was successful against those great bowling taxes. And I was lucky enough, actually, as a 19-year-old, after following his career, I played an MCC game with him against West Indies at Arundel.

And my mum and dad loved cricket, watched a lot of our games, but never, like, got in the way or never did it. But he took a picture. of me and Thorpey batting together. He knew how much I'd watched him playing and said, oh, I bet that was fun today, banged sport. And he was at the right at the end of his career

and obviously playing the MCC game was just a warm up for the test matches he was about to do. But, you know, just seeing him operate and just seeing like, he was an England legend and that's what I wanted to be, like to play for England. He was there, we batted together and that's almost what dreams are made of to do.

And obviously, I wasn't privy to all the other stuff that these guys were with as a player and stuff was a little bit of coaching towards the end you know as I kind of finished he kind of came around his more the lines route in and then a pin but just again chatting in the bar with him about cricket and about his experiences it was it was unbelievable so open about his experience as a cricketer and what he went through how he battled what he did was was extraordinarily I just feel very lucky in one sense I batted with my hero and it's obviously incredibly sad with what's happened last little bit

How did his career end, Michael? Because you were captain, of course, 2005. He played his 100th test. There was a lot of Ian Bell conversation at the time, wasn't there? The Ash was about to start, that incredible series. You were captain. How did that curtain come down? Well, he played his 100th test match.

It was Durham against Bangladesh. And, you know, he'd been having injections into his back. And he knew the style of cricket that we wanted to try and play against Australia. which was very on the front foot, very energetic, very kind of in their faces in the field as well. And he kind of alluded that his back wasn't quite up to be able to play that style of cricket. So we had to make a judgment call. And it was around that time we just fancied play in Australia with a young, fresh set of minds. We didn't want any baggage from what had happened in the 90s, early 2000.

But if Graham Thorpe had said that he was 100% fit, I guarantee he would have played that series. He was one and I had so much admiration And honestly this This sad kind of state that we're all Kind of talking about I just look at like Tuffers and all the players that played in the 80s and 90s I have so much admiration for England players

Because they used to go on tour for three or four months Phil said something on a show just the other day He said most of his match fee or tour fee Went on phone calls Just a phone home There was no Skype You know they didn't see the kids Like the players can do these days

they didn't have that cushion of support from the ECB. They didn't get looked after. They didn't get the rewards financially at the end of the career. They knew they were going to be able to just have a period of just doing nothing if they want to. You know, I just have so much aspiration and what's happened to Graham, I kind of looked by and I've been very, very lucky.

I came into England when it was not in 1999, year after central contract and was absolutely protected by the England bubble. These guys back in the 80s, 90s, going back to the 70s as well. well, they didn't have any of that. They didn't get protected and they were just kind of thrown out there. The PCA, I mean, that's developed enormously, hasn't it? And that sort of, that whole question of mentalness and looking after players and understanding of what it actually, what the issues are that didn't seem to be,

there weren't in place at all. Well, just like a simple conversation these days about mental well-being. It's a natural conversation to have. You try and have that conversation back in the 80s and 90s. you're probably going to get laughed at. That's just the different eras. And I just have so much admiration and kind of look back

and that my heroes are all those players that played in the 80s and 90s and went through those long tours, those long times without seeing loved ones. You know, just to think these days we can go on tour, we can just get on a phone, we can speak to our kids, we can see them. They didn't have any of that.

Yeah, yeah. I'll ask you one more question, Cookie. As a left-handed batsman, What was about the way that Graham played that you really admire? Cut in the pool. I played a little back foot. And I just, his cut, his pull, front foot in the air. I couldn't, I could never quite do that.

But I tried to do the front foot pool with a swivel with the front foot in the air and the cut shot. They're basically my two scoring shots kind of that's what because he did. And his ability to like play spin was so un-English as well, like the sweep and the manipulative. the manipulative a strike he used his hand so well hit through the thing so and the one little thing i'm going to mention just very quickly is how many people have come out of my generation said thought was my hero at it i know probably all left-handed we love playing cut and pool but abroady duckie there's so many other people inspired a generation he did inspire the generation of like we wanted to play and that that's what a legacy that is to do we'll leave it there

thanks to you three thanks to uh to mark ramprakash as well and to nassah and also to Simon Sherbourne as well for that emotional look back at Graham Thorpe's life.