Test Match Special - Remembering 'The Judge', Robin Smith

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

Jonathan Agnew speaks to broadcaster Mark Nicholas following the death of his friend and former Hampshire team-mate Robin Smith. 'The Judge', who died on 1st December aged 62, scored more than 4,000 Test runs for England. Plus, we hear an interview from Smith back in 2019 where he spoke about his struggles away from the pitch.

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Welcome to the Test Match Special podcast. The cricketing world is still in shock after the loss of England great Robin Smith. He sadly died on the 1st of December, age just 62. Nicknamed the judge, Smith played 62 times for England, scoring more than 4,000 test runs, and he was a fine one-day player as well, scoring an iconic 167 against Australia in 1993,

which remained an England record for more than 20 years. Very shortly we'll be hearing from Mark Nicholas, friend and former Hampshire teammate of Smith who spoke to Jonathan Agnew about his memories of The Judge. Short and wide outside the off-stump. That's carved away before by Smith. No one down at third man. And that bounced off the advertising boards, I should think, 10 yards.

It gives some indication of how hard he hit that. Robin Smith just loves it there. He lent back. There was the young Robin Smith, the gentle, kind, loving little chap, which I think has always been me, and I hope will always be the case. Davis bowling to Robin Smith now, and this delivery is pulled away in the air, on the on side, out towards Long Island. It's going to bounce a few times and go for four.

It's pulled away from outside the line of the Ostamp, a short lifting delivery, and Robin Smith just launched into that one baseball style. And then I just felt that if you, in a world of professional sport, you're going to have to toughen up, be this character. this stronger personality than that's why I had to try and make myself believe. This one is pulled for six by Robin Smith. Yes, signaled by Ambar Buckner, and that brings up Smith 50 in the grand manner. That was a super shock.

He's absolutely hammered up. It's gone over the small stand, over the road. Oh, over the road, I would say. And you'll be churchyard around the old Catholic church perhaps over there. over there. It's Wachar again. He bowls to Smith. It's short.

Pulled away. That's a lovely shot and it's going for six. Low and flat over backward square leg. It isn't a particularly long boundary down there. And the rope is about 10 meters or so inside the advertising hoardings. But even so, a short arm jab. Take that Waka unit. I certainly didn't have the confidence and it was actually quite great that during the start of my career,

I think as you walked out, they had the big screen up there and I had a look up on the screen. look up on the screen and see how many games I've played and my average just to really give me the conference to think well I'm actually good enough to be out here on the stage and he goes to the pool and this will be his hundred that's a fine shot to get there a short ball from kettie benjamin robin smith wazes back towards the press box i don't know they were applauding that loudly they also waved to the andy robert stand the double decker stand A few memories of Robin Smith and following his retirement he relocated to Australia but as we heard he struggled with mental health issues and alcoholism and he was in hospital a few months ago but he did see Mark beat in Perth a few days ago when he caught up with former teammates and friends including Mark Nicholas and it's good to see Mark if we're honest people in the game kind of knew that this was a possibility but it just hits you such a shock I think you're right yeah and I think as my brother actually

who said, was this sudden? And I said, yeah, sudden, but not surprising. You know, I felt he was fragile. He'd lived on the edge for a long time. The demon drink had sort of overrun him. And he was told a year ago, you mentioned being in hospital, he were quite right. And when he left hospital, they said,

if you drink again, you'll die. And so he didn't drink again. And that's why one of the reasons, he seemed in such good Nick last week in Perth. He'd got his body-sorted teeth and hair. And, you know, he'd become a shadow of himself. But actually, the robin we saw was very much like the, I mean, he was grayer. Yes, some are.

And it is a surprise. But I suppose the answer is that he never found happiness outside of the game. So he, he... Which is quite common. Cricket wraps its arms around you. In a way no other sport does. And when you haven't got it, you are... Unless you've got something obvious to go to next,

you struggle a way to find your identity. identity again in the way that you had before. And that really applied to him. And I think, too, you know, what happened in Perth, and you were a part of it, everybody he saw around the commentary area, the official areas, the breakfast, the lunches, the dinners, people so thrilled to see him. One of, if not the most popular cricketer of all. And he lived an old life again for three or four days.

And suddenly everybody's gone. The circus has moved on. No one's there that was, that was, giving him, you know, laughs and memories and stories being told. We had a Hampshire player's breakfast in Perth, Barry Richards and Paul Terry and the Smith brothers and me and we just laughed and suddenly we weren't there. It is enormously sad. There's a sense of relief for me because I hated seeing him so anxious, so troubled, so

unable to make sense of the world he was now in. And although it's fair to say that he was much improved. I certainly don't think he was a happy person in the way that he had been in his life. Yeah. He was quite a paradox of the people who didn't know him to see him marching out there to take on the fastest bowlers in the world. He heard in there smashing Waka Yunus for six. And yet, I mean, behind that somehow is his fragility. Brilliant summary.

So I think it's an alter ego. So him and I were talking the other day about he can't be the judge anymore. So the judge is the swashbuckling cricketer, the tremendous party boy, the great friend of everybody, what's next? Robin Smith is a very sensitive, insecure soul, and that was all he had left. He said, I can't be the judge anymore. He said in this chat we had sitting on a small sofa

at Anne Richards, Barry Richards' ex-wife's house, Lammy had a barbecue there, and there were about 25, 30 of us there. We sat on this little sofa, and he said, I can't take the adulation. I can't cope with people thinking what I was and not fully understanding what I am. And I think that order ego troubled him a lot

because he couldn't find it again. And as he tried to find it, it was more and more pain. And I think you've summed that up really well. Yeah. Did you sense that when he was playing? I mean, you were his captain for years. No. You didn't have to sort of, you know, try and help him through.

He needed guidance. I mean, one of the reasons he was a great run chasing because he needed to know what to chase. He was a better first innings, batsman than second. So a better second innings, than first innings, batsman, without a doubt. I've always felt that about Batsman, actually, that some are natural setters up of games

and some are natural chases of games. And I think he was a master of the chase. But I would say that he always enjoyed a beer after play, but I don't think there were signs when he was a player. I mean, he would go out and have fun. He had fun. He was a young guy, super fit, fabulous player, having fun. I certainly don't think there were signs of a demise,

at least nowhere near the level of the one that we saw. Yeah, yeah. And yet he needed his team. teammates, do you feel that? Yeah, I had to have people around him. No good on his own at all. Easily, lonely, but dangerously, lonely. Lonely, lonely.

In fact, I would say that if people weren't with him, he quickly shrunk away from the person that we knew. I would say he was a diminished force on his own, very noticeably. Yeah. And incredibly courteous in the way that South Africans tend to be, don't they? I mean, so polite.

Yeah. He'd take a cap off. Mickey Arse is the one who takes his cap off. Open the door. He was so polite. Yeah, yeah, very. Well, I mean, they had great manners. It was a fabulous family.

His father was barking mad. Well, he was quite mad. His mother was a ballet dancer and then a ballet teacher. His brother's a ruthless businessman and was a ruthless player. Yes. And a really good guy. He's a wreck, Paul, Chris Smith, Kippey, as we knew him. They know very different players.

He was a natural defender. Always said, I don't know the range. I don't have the game nonsense. You just don't choose to play it. But Robin had the game. I mean, Robin only to have played 62 tests and to have finished by the age of 32 is just daft. I mean, Robin, he should have played 100 tests.

He'd have averaged 48. He averaged 43.7. If he had had the backing of the people running the side at the time, truly backing him, bothering to take... You have to take time with him. You know, he was high maintenance emotionally. But if you took time with them, boy, the results were stellar. Yeah.

It does seem extraordinary that he didn't play enough to 32. Yeah, I think it was a funny time, you know, that it was a disjointed England team. I don't think Ray Ellingworth spent emotional time with players. You know more about Ray than I do. I think Keith Fletcher found it difficult. I think Rob had turned to partying a bit and the judge. We can still call him the judge to turn to partying a bit. and stuck with the guys who wanted to party

rather than the ones who were perhaps more, not so much insular, but more careful. And I think people took a dim view of that and I think it was unwise of him not to come back into the pack. But even so, for performance, he played pretty well in South Africa in 94-5,

956. In that first test on a difficult pitch at Super Sport Park in Pretoria, he played really well. He didn't have his best tour, but I don't think he was right. for sacking, I really don't. No, no.

What would your favourite memories been batting? I mean, I saw Hampshire happened, you know, well, for the start, the class. I mean, he was a fantastic player, right? He moved his feet quickly.

He got into great positions. He came naturally forward at you, so that was intimidating. If you were a bowler, because you knew about the cut and the pull, so you didn't want to drop it too short. But when he came at you, he used to knock it back past you,

or wide of mid on, a bit like Tendulka, just a wide of the stumps, in between the stumps and mid-on. He came at you. So the bowler felt the force, the intimidatory force. He played innings under pressure. So he played a match-win innings in the first cup final,

but wasn't man of the match because Stephen Jeffries, the African left-arm quick knocked over Derbyshire. He was a man-of-the-match in the next two finals. And in the John Player League series, we won, or summer we won. He played a number of extraordinary innings under pressure in run-chaises. he hit wacker eunis up the hill to the warner stand at lords when the run rate was getting sticky the most startling cricket shot you've ever seen and i ever saw and he taught to viv richards about judge he just loses it man he said i love that boy you know the courage the power the character the presence he had it all and if he'd had confidence i think he'd have been a world-beater he did say himself i haven't finished a great player, but I hope people have appreciated what I have achieved.

And he admitted he hadn't quite, and he's probably right. He hadn't, you wouldn't put him in the great player bracket. You'd say very good, exceptionally good. And it's only because he's not a confident human being. And so the people around him had to build him up and build him up. The more you built him up, the more chance

you had. So for example, when he read in the papers he couldn't play spin, because remember Warnie got him, six balls after he got Gat. So the ball of the century was followed by that beautiful exactly the same ball, except Robin edged his, caught it slip by Mark Taylor. And they started to say he couldn't play spin.

He averaged 66 against India and 67 against Sri Lanka, right? So he could play spin. The only side he hasn't got a good average against, New Zealand, 33 or 4. Australia is about 40, same as West Indies is about 42. So he started, the problem is he started to believe what he read. He read everything. He looked at it. He's talking nonsense. He looked at just against him.

Because he went hard at it. Yeah. So we talked a lot about soft hands, about letting the, be prepared to play it more of the back foot and go with the spin. But his instinct was to go at it. So actually, what we should have done is kept encouraging to hit it back where it came from, but into the stands. Because in those days, he was the strongest player out there. He'd had modern bats now. He'd chip it into the stand, right?

Yeah, absolutely. He had a pretty big bat, but he had the ability to hit any slow boat or into the stands. But you had to give him the confidence to get to the pitch of the board. He'd say, oh, we're at stumping, it's turning. He's more worried about you than you are about him. Don't worry about that. Warnie was quite good. I don't know if you remember that.

So, Warnie was one who made life difficult for him because he understood his hard hands, and he knew had a bowl. He got into his head. So he went more for overspin and bounce. He didn't need to beat the ounce. He just had to keep hitting that splice on the hand and the bat, and Robin would come at it,

and so you're creating a lot of energy between the batsmen going at the ball and the ball coming to the batsmen. but I think he was unfairly criticised for spin, though I think he got less good at it the longer he played. I remember playing against Robin and you guys came up to Grace Road and there was this strange chap running around and shouting stuff out from the stands. It was his dad who I think we can use safely the word eccentric.

Do you know the rugby story? Oh, Robin was a brilliant centre, right? Brilliant. I mean, I'm not saying he would play for South Africa, but he was brilliant, very strongly built and very quick. sprinter right and he gets the bull inside his own half and he starts to brush past people handing him off knocking a few aside and he's now he's past the halfway line and he's going but he's had to go right he's coming down the touchline where all the parents are watching edging the player come and his dad

always dressed in white he has white slip-on shoes white shorts white socks white safari shirt white cap it's the middle of winter it's muddy in Durban there there's heavy rains anyway it's cold and he's sprinting down the right hand touchline to the light and his father starts sprinting alongside him oh my boy oh my boy run my boy come on my boy come on my boy my boy and at the moment of robin diving to touch down for this phenomenal try probably from the 25 yard line the old man dived over with him splat hit the ground on top of judge judge rolled over so turned him on his back and the two of than got up covered, coated, caked in mud and the judge had the most embarrassed smile on his greatest you've ever seen. That's how mad his father was. Yes, well he was. He also got him up every

morning at 5 o'clock in the winter to kick at goal and in the summer to have cricket nets with his coach, Grayson Heath. They have nets in their garden. They did down the track. They got a bow, they were the first to have a bowling machine privately owned. And we used that for Barry Richards. That's a different, I'll come to that in the second if we got time. But the five o'clock in the morning I think's funny because the partying place in Durban in those days was the Beverly Hills Hotel, Omschanga Rock. And he could go hard, you know, the judge. He enjoyed a night out. And so his challenge was could he beat his dad to the 5 o'clock bell?

His dad came in at 5 a.m. with a cup of tea for him every morning. And then he'd go off and it would be rugby or cricket nets wherever it was. And he practiced from 5 to 1⁄2 or 6 and then he'd go home and have breakfast and shower and get ready for school. or whatever it was next. And he frequently, because he had a little glass door from the garden, so he could jump the fence, get in the glass door, throw himself into bed, fully clothed, right? Lie under the covers, and inward come his dad and say,

morning, my boy, and give him a shake, and put the tea down and then leave the room. And the judge would leap out, jump in the shower, and put on his morning training gear, you know, the battle to beat Dad at 5 o'clock in the morning. So he did that a bit. And what was the other thing I was going to say? About the nets, because his dad, for all his eccentricity, actually, he really drove both of them hard, didn't he?

I mean, he really, he was willing them over the line, wasn't he, in a positive way? But he drove, correct, Agar's bank, bingo, he drove them in a positive way. It wasn't Tiger parenting in the negative sense. He was hugely supportive, set things up, there was a triangle, there was the coach, there was John the father, and there was Robin, more than Chris. Chris chose to do it. I would say John insured Robin did it Robin was a bit looser

as a personality Chris was really tight and organised Robin was looser and so they got hold of the what was the bowling machines called oh with the two whirling wheels on the top bowler I think it was called bowler they've got one in the garden

and you could crank it up So Farns got out and bought one of these by the way and probably important so the net in the garden was concrete with AshtraTurf laid on top so it would hit the survey it would really go but it was great

if you were facing it at 660, but if you cranked it up to 90, it was fairly frightening. And then if you bowled it short, so we all used to go around. Lots of us were in Durbin playing club cricket those days, and we'd go around and we'd hit balls and we'd have a great time. And Judge, I'm not saying he'd developed the square cut there, but I tell you what, the more I think about it, he probably did. It must have helped, right? Because he loved it short and wide, and he had lots of those on the bowling machine.

I would argue that in his life he spent too long on the bowling machine and it made him slightly rigid as a player. I think a softer Robin Smith would have given him more options to play the ball less hard than he played it. Going harder to cricket ball, very few batsmen have got away with that for long. He got away with it longer than most. You've got to play the cricket ball mainly soft. And so we'd crank it up and he'd cope well, right? well really well and particularly do you remember those dramatic sways and leaves you used to you mentioned it but we were talking just for we hands and feet off the ground

properly yeah proper theater yeah and a lot of that came from the garden the speed to get out of the way of the ball you had to have but then Barry Richards was making a comeback to play against the rebel West Indians in 82 3 and and he decided he wasn't going to play and he decided to play and he said can I come around have a few sessions with boys at the nets. So we said fine. So he took Dard and he put handkerchiefs where forward short leg would be square short leg, backward short, short leg. And he said just crank it up and get it at me. So we, not the first day, the first day, the second day we had it up. And then the third day we had it at 90 on the concrete with Astrotor. No helmet. You know, he'd had

a side pieces. I mean, we'd been watching Robin and been impressed me, Paul Terry, Chris They played for England for Christ. Robin Smith was levels above any of us at dealing with that, right? And Barry Smith, Barry Richards was levels above again. It was extraordinary. He stood on the back foot and just eased it back past the machine. Incredible to watch. So two great talents, both out of schools in Durban.

And Barry wrote a coaching book when Robin was nine, and he was the boy that Barry chose to feature in the book in all the photographs. That's how good he was at nine. He had perfect balance, footwork, he could be photographed, actually playing the shot, not set up to play the shot. And Barry still talks about Robin at 9 now. And in fact, for some odd reason, you weren't supposed to have feature a child in a book of coaching until they were 10. But the Smith family faked the age because they so wanted Robin to be in the book. Why was he such a hero to people?

I mean, Michael Vaughn, for instance, Robin Smith is my hero. he said what it was about Robin as a last thought Well I suppose as a cricketer He was thrilling to watch Yeah You know if you watched him You knew it would be great

You knew that there would be power There would be intent There would be drama And you kind of backed him There was something about him You wanted to support You know he's an adopted Englishman Yes

Natal Durban born and bread Adopted Englishman Came over at 16 Because his brother was playing for Hampshire But he was adopted as fondly If not more fondly more Gregi was actually was pretty land I'd say a number of them were fondly adopted so people really loved watching in play because it was

explosive that's one number two you sensed he was a good person when you saw him interviewed and listened to him and met him he'd always stop sign autographs not there weren't pictures in those there was autographs unless you had this funny cameras where you pulled the pull the shot out the bottom the camera after you take it yeah the polar one thank you and and so he his his naturalness was easy to identify with and enjoy and the other was kindness i mean i god he helped everybody i would say he overdid that and put pressure on himself he would stop for anybody if anybody needed tickets and he'd just like to look at them they'd find a way to get them

tickets if if if he saw anybody who was struggling maybe handicapped or or or just having a lesser life than his he'd do things to improve that life his commitment to charities he was very very good person. And I think that came over in his personality. I think the strength of his character in the face of real drama, the Ian Bishop Assault in Antigua. I mean, that was shocking to watch. And the way he beststood it courageously without flinching. I think that courage is a big part of it, isn't it? If you're a young player looking at Robin Smith, it was that courage. The first word that they've used. That's a really lovely look back. I haven't told you the story about going to Cardiff. Have we got time?

Very quick. Okay. Okay. So we've got two cars, right? They've got a Porsche, a red and white Porsche. I'll kid you not, the Smith brothers. They've got a red and white Porsche. Were they close, by the way?

Very close. Very close. Really close. I mean, Chris is a wreck this week. Really close. So red and white Porsche, and they're in it going to play Glamorgan. And Paul Terry and I are in the car behind. And we have a plan, right?

He was very naive. As a young, vibrant man, he was very naive. Okay. and we get close to the seven bridge and Kippy says, Judgey, get the passports out. He says, what? He says, the passport. Oh, no.

And he says, what do you mean the passports? He said, Judgey, my passport and your passport, we're going crossing into Wales. He said, no, she skips, I don't have my passport. No, man, no, I, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're kidding. He said, no, Kippe, I'm not kidding, I don't have my passport. So he pulled into the service station just before the, the second and we pulled him behind him i said what's that why you stop he said jesus judge judge he

hasn't got his part i said oh judge what haven't you got your passport he said well i know a new skip what what are i going to do i said you can you we'll take what are we're going to do guys we can go to the station you can go back to southampton from here that's tricky we'll have to get a cab maybe you go to bath or bristol maybe in a cab then you go to and then you can or you could pay for a cab the whole way or actually I tell you what we could do we could put you in the boot no so he said okay what what sounds a great plan he said I'm in so we put him in the boot and didn't get him out till we got to the Hilton in Cardiff absolutely true brilliant story that's lovely mark thank you for yeah a really lovely look back thank you

thank you for having me a pleasure to be with you and to talk about Sad but, sad but happy memories. Thank you. Appreciate it. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension.

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And chants, we've got chants. Oh yes, we love a chant. And finding ways to shoehorn in some truly obscure pop culture references. It's actually quite a silly podcast. Yeah, listen now on BBC Sounds. Yeah, you should. Okay, cool. Let's go back to 2019 now, where Robin joined Jonathan. and Agnew at the Rose Bowl

to talk about his struggles away from the pitch. I mean, I have to say, I mean, the way people, Robin will remember you walking out to bat, you know, this big, strong, powerful character standing there against the fast bowlers, the ball whizzing past your nose, you're down on your knees,

you're watching it go by, or you're, that savage square cut for four, and, you know, the bravery of getting out there and taking on the fast bowling. And they'll, I think they'll be really, I've kind of shocked at the demons that you've encountered since that. You know, looks can be very deceiving, Agers. Was it a facade?

Look, it was, you know, for me, it was just a bit of a fractured identity. You know, from a very, very early age, the robinsmith was, you know, the gentle, quiet, you know, reserved and introvert. And, you know, that's the way I am. And then, you know, all of a sudden, you know, when I was, you know, introduced to international cricket or certainly when I first came over and played for Hampshire and had wonderful, you know, this ability of playing with Malcolm Marshall and Gordon Greenwich and that was just, I was so privileged at that time to have played and realised that I had to start believing a little bit more on myself. And I must say that when I first joined the England cricket team, The likes of you and both, in particular, Alan Lamb and David Gower, they just oozed with self-confidence.

And I really bled off that confidence and made myself more confident. As you know, this game, a lot is in the mind. And I try to make myself believe in myself a lot more. and you know and so there was this judge you know that went out to bat and shoulders you know back head high swirling the bat around trying to make really pump myself up to to be this perceived this you know this the strong powerful character but deep down I knew who I was I know who I am I am Robinson with and and the judge was a very different character and it's and over the years

you know, very difficult to try and live up to the expectations of the judge and not Robin Smith. So it's probably one of the reasons why you might have seen me in the bar a little bit more often having three or four beers just to give me that Dutch courage to be the laugh and soul of the party, to be that person that people love the judge. And I'm not saying for one moment that I was an insincere person, I wasn't, but I was still battling with, you know, with this character of the judge who everybody loved and the quiet, shy, reserved Robinson, who I've always been. Could the quiet, shy reserve, Robin Smith, have been as successful abat someone as the judge?

Probably not, because I just didn't have that conference. I didn't have that self-belief. I didn't believe that I was good enough to score runs at the highest level, not alone for Hampshire. I mean, I just continue to work hard. I knew that if I worked hard at my technique and practiced harder than everyone else, then I felt that at least I've going to give myself every opportunity

of being as good as I possibly could. But certainly living off that, you know, both in Lamb and Gower and Gatting and Gooch and they were big characters, weren't they? And yeah, and their confidence came a lot more naturally to them. And I wouldn't say for one moment that they were arrogant, but they certainly knew and believed that they could, you know, and perform well at the very highest level. So I love playing with them

And they just believed in me They you know Forever pumping my tires up You know just saying you know what a good player was And I always remember that Towards the sort of middle part of my career They introduced the big screen Where they put all your statistics up on the screen

And I'd walk out I'd have to read, walk out Look up on the screen See Robin Smith look at my record And my average And that also gave me the belief to think, well, I'm actually good enough to be walking out on this stage. I loved it.

I mean, I loved the big stage, but I really had to work very, very hard to control my mind and to make sure that I understood that I actually was good enough to be on that ground. And to be facing the fast bowling as you did, I mean, and with apparent relish. I mean, you seem to enjoy the battle. I mean, it was tough. I did, but I was very, very lucky and very privileged having been brought up in South Africa. You know, I think during the days where, you know, during the, when South Africa was isolated from international sport and cricket, the Curry Cup, you know, the tournament that we played was the best that we could play. So it was played fiercely.

It was competitive. We had some fantastic cricketers from Transvaal, Natal and Western Province. And that was a great baptism for me as a young, you know, 16, 17, 18 year old. But dad, what a wonderful man, dad decided that the house came up for sale next door, knocked it down and built a cricket pitch. And this cricket pitch was just concrete. And in those days, it was Ozart, a little bit like AstroTurf. And he then imported the very first bowling machine into South Africa and got on the bowling machine, turned it up to 75, 80, 85 miles an hour, and just bolted my head. all day. So I, from an early age, I did learn, and I had, you know, I was very lucky to have

been introduced to quick bowling from a very early age and thrived and loved it. And, you know, and we weren't exposed to any decent spin bowling. There was Alan Curry, who, you know, who didn't really turn the ballplay for Transvaal. There was Dennis Hobson, who was a very good leg spinner. Robby Armitage was a pretty average off-spinner. But other than that, it was just fast bowling. And I would imagine a little bit like being brought up in India. You know, the guys, you know, play there and the ball turns and they become great players of spin bowling. But in South Africa, you know, we had, you know, most of the balls that channeled it at my head. So, you know, I had enough, I had enough practice when I eventually

joined Hampshire and played for England. I'd certainly had enough practice of shortbridge bowling. Your dad's what a character. I remember him pacing around, anxiously chewing every fingernail where he didn't have any left i don't think we're watching i mean gosh he cared he cared about you and and and chris too i very much so and dad just i mean i i i just can't describe the bloke i mean firstly he was just uh such a great inspiration i mean he um you know he just um you know loved his boys being successful at school sports and uh and just one uh quick story that um uh with with dad just to show you how eccentric he was i mean he woke me up at five o'clock every single morning every day at my life from the age of 10 or 11 and during the cricket season we'd be

you know practicing our cricket in the back garden but then the neighbors got a bit annoyed with this cracking of the ball against the bat at 6 o'clock in the morning so then we had to go down to the local school to do our practice down there during the athletic season then we'd have the hard jump pit in the back garden the shot put the long jump triple jump in the back garden oh it's the full set of the whole dad didn't do anything by half measures and that's probably the reason why I landed up in trouble whereas he said Robin he said

mate he said if you do something do it properly or don't bother doing it at all and then during the rugby season the car would be filled with tackling bag and rugby balls and we'd go down to the local school and we'd practice out kicking for the goalposts and in those days

it was still dark and but the Indian notion was I could just see the silhouette of the sun coming up but dad's back was towards that and I could just see the goal post but he couldn't see it but he'd sit on a on a lantern and I'd have to aim for the lantern

and every now and again I nailed one straight and I just heard boom and it had him straight on the head fell down the light went off and all I could hear was saying great kick my boy

and then we'd end off the session we'd run up and down the touchline and dad was fit in those days and anyway in my very very last rugby game we're playing against the local school down the road local derby they had gone through the season unbeaten and so did we and in the last phase of the game I got the ball at outside center and all I needed to do was get past the um the full back put my head

down and run for that corner try and and as I caught the board and fended off the full back I just caught out the left hand side of my eye my dad started to generate a little bit of pace running down the sideline the touchline with me as we did every single morning during the uh the winter and when we're practicing and as I ran for four 45 yards at full pace. My dad ran next to me for 45 yards. And as I dived in the corner to score the winning try, my dad died with me as well. And we slid in the range during the game.

So we slid together. He landed up on top of me. And he had this in South Africa. You always had these white safari suits and white socks and white safari suit. And he was covered in soil and everything. And he got up, he just dusted himself down and didn't think anything of. and we had about 3,000 people on the one side and had a big, you know,

because rugby in those days was very, very well-supported school level. And he was just oblivious to everything. And so that was a little introduction to my father. But what wonderful man. And Had I not had his support and his love and, you know, having had a very privileged upbringing in South Africa, I certainly would have been able to have enjoyed a 25-year career at Hampshire.

and certainly never have played for England. See, Robin, you just sound like the Robin Smith that I, you know, you've got to reasonably well. You know, when you're playing, you know, you're laughing, you're smiling, you're joking, you know. How did Robin Smith seriously end up in a situation in which he was contemplating, committing suicide? How did you get? But the Robinson are you talking about now is shaking like a leaf. I can see you're not so relaxed.

We're not looking like you are. I'm petrified. No, you're not. What are they? Well, you're speaking to the judge, am I? No, come on, how on earth did you end up? Here you are. And you do look very relaxing, but you do.

How did that? You know, life is very, very difficult, I think, for sportsmen when they come to the end of their playing days. You know, particularly when you play for a very long period of time and you've given your heart and soul, you know, to the supporters, to the members. You've embraced the club, your teammates. And when you retire, you know, part of your soul disappears. And I always remembered when I was captain at a hampshire, always try to encourage ex-players to come to the dresser. Because I thought it was great for the younger players,

comes to sit in the balcony, come and talk to them and just siphon all their vast knowledge. And when the players didn't come in, you know, I didn't quite understand. I only understood when I retired and went back into that dress room and realized that it's no longer you're dressing. No, you don't belong. You don't belong.

And it's very, very difficult when you feel as if, you know, you don't belong. And anyway, the club were fantastic. They got me into a corporate role here entertaining in the Robbins Suite. And probably that too didn't really help my mental state by being there watching the cricket. cricketers there, you know, just, you know, wanting to be out there. Enjoying themselves.

You know, rather than sitting there and hosting and, you know, having the odd tipple. Just to give me a little bit of Dutch courage, I guess. And anyway, I... How did that tipple become more than a tipple then? Well, during the, during my career, I'd always, always loved to have had a drink. I was brought up in a different culture in South Africa where at the end of the day's play, you know, we'd have my Proctor and Barry Richards and all the wonderful players and Graham Pollack and Sylvester Clark and we used to sit in the dressing room for you know for an hour and a half after the

day's player having a few drinks and I do remember my very first game for Natal Mike Procter was captain and anyway I after the game I put my clothes on and and he said well where are you going and I said but mom's waiting for me in the car park he said you aren't going anywhere he said this is the most important part of the day this is where we talk cricket we have a couple of beers and he took me down to see my mom and he said joy don't worry about robin i'll be bringing him home this evening and i'm not sure time we'll get home but i'll get him home safely and that was the culture that that that i was brought up and and certainly then playing in the england team in the fantastic era than i did that too was the the culture it was

social it was social we played very hard on the field we trained hard we practiced hard but That was the culture of the team at the time. So I'd always been, you know, a beer drinker. And then when I'd finished playing cricket, continuing with the beers, when I wasn't actually doing the training and playing during the day, I started to put on a little bit of weight and thought, well, what drink can I have?

That's not going to put on weight. So I thought, well, I'll try vodka, lama and soda. Well, what a bloody mistake. That was. That turned into double vodka, triple vodka. Anyway, kind of long story short, we went, I had a wonderful opportunity of joining Chris in Australia. He offered me a position in his company, and mom and dad were living in Perth. I'd spoken to Kathy, my wife, who were no longer together, and my son, it was a great time for him to have moved.

Margot was just finishing her junior school, a great time, you know, for her to have, because she was. She was moving on to a different school. And I just felt that moving to Perth would have, A, given them a great start to their life in Perth. I thought there might have been more opportunities for them, having been brought up in Australia. I was having difficulties with my marriage. I felt that a good, clean break, a good start.

So I went over with all great intentions. I was still involved in the Missouri Cricket Helmet, which I developed with John Hardy in 1989. and went to Australia and started the business. And there's one thing that all cricketers or all sportsmen should appreciate and understand that we can develop a fantastic product, we can promote the product through all our contacts, but do not try and run the business. And that's where the wheels fell off and I knew that the business was suffering

because it really expanded far too quickly for me to have controlled. the cash through the business, the running of the business, I was doing everything myself. And it was just, you know, financially I knew I was starting to get into problems. I had more difficulties with caffeine. And I just found myself drinking more and more and more. And at one stage for about four years, I'd probably be drinking without exaggerating a bottle and a half of vodka a day from the bottle. And, you know, still working. you know, just a, you know, never out of it, but just, you know, just hopping up.

And the thing that probably saved me was I'd lost my license through drink and driving. And I was cycling 65Ks a day and stopping every year, half an hour for another little tipple of vodka. And it was, alcohol wasn't judgmental. You know, I would have a sip, I could feel the warmth. my bones. I could feel that I felt better. I didn't have the guilt of dragging the family over to Australia, separating from Kathy, having to sell our beautiful home to pay for the debts and the business, to have lost my business. It's like a mask, it's just sort of hid everything.

Yeah, to have lost the, as a father, when you love your children, when you love your children, and you do anything for them, the worst thing that can ever happen is to lose respect of your children and your family. And that's exactly what happened. And it just spiraled out of control and eventually it just got to stage where Barry Richards had heard that, you know, I was really struggling and he wanted to invest in a property in Perth. So I bought a lovely little two-bitter apartment for him. for him 200 yards from the beach at Scarborough. And again, bad move, living on my own.

And, you know, just, you know, drank again too much. I was lonely. And that's the only thing that, you know, that kept me happy for that moment. And, you know, at my very lowest, my lowest ebb, I would sit on the beach with half a bottle of vodka there's a huge hotel you've probably seen the rendezvous down in Scarborough and just looked up there and and I just didn't want to I knew what I was doing was wrong I just didn't know how to get out of it I should have spoken to hindsight is a wonderful thing you know you know there's a lot of guys

like us and and I know that one of the reasons why I've I've bared my soul to you know know, to the Cricketing Public or whoever wishes to read the story. It's a, it's a raw, true story about my life. And I was inspired by Foxy Fowler and Marcus Trescottick and read their books and I thought, well, you know, if they could be brave enough to have written about their, you know, about their problems, then I can be brave enough as well to write my story, which is my situation was slightly different to theirs.

I'm starting to do, starting a degree in psychology now, which is a little bit later on in my life. But the beauty about that is that, you know, I've done the practically experience. I can now start learning the theory, whereas a lot of kids coming out of school, going to university, learning a theory, but not really learned the practical yet.

So I've got some good experience. But so, yeah, I am, and I just want, you know, the Players Cricket Association were absolutely fantastic to me. They had heard that I was going through a lot of problems and they then got in touch with the sports psychologist in Perth and went and had a lot of sessions with them and that helped a hell of a lot. But, you know, when we perceived to be, you know, invincible, perceived to be the strong character, you know, that's not always the case. You know, we, you know, there's a lot of people out there, whether you're playing sport or whether you're at work, you know, at work, or you're going through problems in a marriage or financial problems or even if you've been working in a business for 40 years, you get to 60, you know, and you retire, what do you do? I mean, we all, you know, we get depressed. And mine was more of a situational depression than clinical depression where clinical, you know, is more imbalance than their chemicals in your, in your head. But so, you know, I just. you know, I just got a point where... Do you feel better of having expressed everything? I mean...

Look, it's been very catholic. I've been very, very nervous about how the book would be received. But I just hope that, you know, if certainly people, you know, enjoy reading the book, I just hope that there might be a little passage of the book where somebody might take a little something from there and learn by the mistakes I've made. And, you know, and it's a book of learning.

There's lots and lots of the books about... you know, about me taking, you know, wanting to take my life, and I knew exactly how I was going to do it. And it really was just days away. It was days away. I didn't know exactly know what day, but it was days away. And I went back that night and had another bottle of vodka, and my son had a key to my apartment, came and saw me curled up on the other couch,

and he said, Dad, I love you so much, please look after yourself. And it's very tough to, you know, just to think back in those days. you know, if I can give a message out there to anybody, it's a message to say that there are so many people out there who, you know, who will give their time, who people are there to support, to help and to love and have the courage to go out and seek and get help before you fall down too big a hole.

The late, great Robin Smith. If you've been affected by anything that you've heard, you can find support through the BBC's Action Line. Just search for BBC Action Line or go to www.bc.bc.com.com. UK forward slash action line. That's it for this episode of the Test Match Special podcast. Thanks for listening.

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