Test Match Special - Root & Rew rue missed chances

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

Simon Mann is alongside former England captains Michael Vaughan and Sir Alastair Cook, and Jonathan Agnew for reaction to a tough day for England at The Oval in the third day of the second Test against New Zealand.Matt Fisher looks back on the day which also brought him his first half-century for England. Plus, we hear from Durham chief executive Tim Bostock who was "bemused" about doubts around England Test captain Ben Stokes' "state of mind".Also, Henry Moeran looks ahead to England's clash with Scotland in the Women's T20 World Cup on Saturday at Headingley.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. On the open road, conditions change. Your composure doesn't have to. But technologies like terrain response to and clear sight ground view, Range Rover Sport brings confidence and control the challenging conditions. Explore more atrangerover.ca. He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballandour Award five times.

He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Welcome to our review of the third day of the second test.

between England and New Zealand here at the Oval. New Look, England, flattened by New Zealand today. New Zealand making the most of the advantage they built up on the second day. They are 352 ahead with seven wickets in hand in a great position to level this series. England adding 69 to their overnight score, losing their last four wickets to be bowed out for 291. Five for Matt Henry and a 50 for Matt Fisher. New Zealand losing a couple of early wickets. and then a 151 run stand between Nichols and Revinja

has just nailed down New Zealand's advantage. Nichols making his 11th Test 100. He played splendidly and New Zealand are on their way. Michael Vaughn is here. Jonathan Agnew is here. Alistair Cook is here. Michael, that was a tough day for England. Yeah, really tough day.

I mean, they had a good partnership with obviously Matthew Fisher, we've got a nice 50 and Sonny Baker who showed a huge amount of spirit with the bat in hand. They had a chance when they got, New Zealand a couple down quite early. Joffra bowed a good spell with a new ball. Josh Tong suddenly gets the ball in hand. And there was a moment where I think there were 49 for two.

And suddenly a chance came for James Rue, low down to his left. And he didn't take it off Josh Tong. There was another one off Joffre Archer, bouncing down the leg side. Not easy chances, but chances that he would think he could have taken. And on a pitch that's pretty good. And in a situation where you've got obviously the 100 deficit, it you have to take all your chances.

Emilio Gates, short leg to Jacob Bethel's one that ballooned in the eight. He didn't quite get his hands right. And everything had to go England's way once they'd, you know, on a pitch that's pretty flat, I think two 901s under par. And that's where England today will think, go back to yesterday with the bat in hand. And obviously this morning, they didn't really get the score that they should have got in the first innings on a pretty good batting pitch. So they're really paying for that batting on the second day?

Well, you need three figures. Alice to mention last night about the top six. You need one of your top six or seven to go and get you three figures in the first innings. If that doesn't happen, you generally fall under part in New Zealand's first in. Glenn Phillips got the three figures and they got to that par just beyond. So it is at this level all about getting three figures, getting the big number. Henry Nichols now sits on 119 going into day four.

Test cricket on pitches like this. It's hundreds that win your test matches, not 50s and 30s and 40s. Alistair as captain, do you hate days like this? You know, you think of Joe Root back as captain for England. They're tough days. And you know, you get punished for test cricket over a long period of time. Like the bowlers have been punished here for the batters. Well, not batting well on a flat wicket.

I think this is a, I think 390 on the first inning was low par. So 290 is definitely low part. And you can kind of tell if Matt Fisher actually played really well, really sensibly to the right option. But you deep down know if you're number 11 and your number nine are playing with that ease against that new ball It's a flat wicket and then if you don't take your chances you get punished and this England side That's what they've done and it's it's frustrating because they they took their chance at lords New Zealand didn't take the chance they haven't done it here sets a series out well

I can't see England I don't think New Zealand are going to allow England to get you know they're back for hours weren't they tomorrow and set them why wouldn't you set them five 50 or and still have 130 or over to Parliament? Yeah, I mean, it's New Zealand's game, isn't it? I mean, it feels like it. Whether there's any long memories from four years ago, the early heady days of Basball when England has thrashed them around

and won those three test matches, but they've got so much time to build up a completely unassailable total declare, and then England are going to have to, well, they're extremely well, aren't they? I mean, it's still. for me, yeah, I mean the batsmen amongst us will go back to the score and of course they're right. You know, 2.91 wasn't enough but I still go back to that first hour of yesterday as well

when England lost control of this match. You got a very inexperienced bowling attack. You know, and it's moments like this, I think we talked about it earlier, Alistair, and where, you know, it's where Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad are so brilliant, you know, in conditions which you've just got to try and be tight. You've got to have a get control of a game. And England with this attack, they haven't had control of the game. They've resolved. sorted to the short ball so often, haven't they? But apart from Joffa Archer, they haven't got the experience really to carry that off effectively.

But they weren't brilliant to start off in their career. How many times you say Jimmy Anderson, oh, when it swings, he's brilliant. And he was. And he learnt how to deal with this situation. You're not going to, I don't get who bowled on that wicket today. The best bowlers in the world, they're not tearing through the opposition.

No. And it's not, you're not picking five for 20, but you're getting through a day here, two for 50 if you can. kind of figures. That's what you, that's what you need. And I think England, they, their mantra of always trying to attack wickets. There are times in test cricket where you can attack from one end and defend from the other. And actually, for example, just when Bethel was bowling, I was looking there, that looked like the most dangerous way to the

bow left hand as a couple jumped out. I'm not mindful of both stage, a couple of jumped out, right, you go right, Bethel's the one who's looking most likely to take a wicket. At the other end, we're just going to block it up. Well, I've got a question of both of you two as being captains. Do you think England go to this short form stuff because actually they're not good enough to control it otherwise this is kind of seen as an easy way of slowing down a scoring rate because you can just run out bow bounces you've got seven people in the leg side so it's it's an easy way of actually doing a more controlling job in which i think more like to get people out you bowl maidens by bowling skillfully what do you think yeah yeah maybe um i'd like to go back over the course of a few test matches now to study the bounce of theory because because again I need to know the numbers, but I don't think it's working.

I think they've had success in the past, but I'm looking at recent times. I think number one, you do it because you're hoping about it takes it on and if balloons one in the air. Number two, you're hoping that the scoreboard's not gonna tick so you get that control back and neither's been working for England.

So they haven't been getting wickets with it and the scoreboard has continued to tick, so that's a concern for the captain. Just little things like just throwing it out wide of off stump with a packed offside field. I saw, you know, on a pitch like this, I saw a straight theory with three catches on the on side and one square leg boundary.

I like that, but I didn't see them throw it out wide of off-stom and say, okay, we're going to take it away. It's all right, bowling bounces to try and take it away from the eyeline and try and get a bat, kind of not controlling the push. What about throwing it out wide and just saying, go on, then just throw it out wide, get the drive, pat the offside, put one at covered point, put one at kind of wide third.

So there's one or two tactics that you could offer, but, you know, you're looking at a pitch that, you know, As Cookie said, you know, you could put the greats on that pitch. You know, it's a good batting pitch. Yes. And fundamentally when you, you know, it's a lesson to it. And we've got to be fair. It's a very inexperienced batting line.

It's a very inexperienced team this week. You know, but they'll learn in the dressing room that when you get on pitches like this, you've got to get 450. Someone in the first things has to get you a 140, 160. And then you bat around that player and you get the big number and it takes the game deeper and you put the opposition under pressure because you've got a big number. by getting out for 291 and that keeper stood up theory

which got Matt Henry a Pfeiffer that is where the game has changed Matt Henry produced a spell yesterday he's done it this morning where he got three three ball beautifully but that keeper's standing up theory has caused the damage and there's the reason why England have been bowled out for 291 do you know the only time I can remember in recent times

where the short ball has worked getting wickets and keeping it tight? Lords Australia Correct by Australia against England at Lord. In 2020, you're right, yeah, the second test match. Three, wasn't it? Three wickets, I think. We all know test cricket can be brutal, and the focus is so intense.

What about James Rue today? He's come into the team. He's lauded, he's a young player, very talented, and yet focuses on him today. He's dropped a couple of catches. There's wicket keeper, one to the left, one to the right. This level is all about that, the scrutiny. You know, you have a day like that in county cricket.

of course with the feed now and YouTube there's a lot more people watching and there's a lot more people commenting on the game and having their say but you know James will be in that dress room knowing that the talk will be about a couple of drop chat chances been a bit kind of untidy behind the sticks today he's a he's a tough cricketer you know he'll know that he's not had a great day behind the stumps and that's what test match creak's all about that's what it brings the scrutiny of us talking about a couple of catches that he could have and he'll be the first to say he should have taken. But he's got a bit of steel about it. I'm sure he'll come back tomorrow and he'll try and understand what this whole surrounding means and that's the complete difference from

county cricket to the highest level is the scrutiny that you have to take on. You have to take it and you have to come back tomorrow with a strong mentality of realizing that when the next catch comes be ready to take it. Yeah, I have no doubt about his mentality from what I've heard. And what I think today will realize for him is actually how could you have to be at keeping to keep international standards? Because the effect of his two drops have again hurt England. So is that fine? Absolutely. He's nowhere near the finished product.

He just now will have to go away and go, oh God, that's the level I've got to get out. And there's nothing wrong with that. Now Matt Pryor, one of England's best keepers, his first stint of the keeper of England, he realized he wasn't good enough. He went away and worked and he came back a very, very good keeper. Okay, let's get some reaction now. Matt Fisher scored his maiden test half century today, and he's been speaking to Daniel Norcross. Tell us what it was like out there.

Yeah, it was obviously quick bowling, so a lot of bouncers. But, yeah, just trying to work with Sunny, really, and figure out a way to elongate our innings and try and put a partnership together to help us get closer to them, really. So, yeah, just working out when to play, when to duck, when to turn the screw and try and hit a agricultural boundary. or two. So yeah, that's how I went about it really. I mean, you played a lot of cricket here in the Oval and you've had some success with the bat for Surrey as well.

So you knew what conditions to expect. Were they pretty much exactly like a typical Oval pitch? Not really. It's a bit, it's a different colour to any wicket I've played on here. It's usually a bit greener. It's a little whiter than normal. So yeah, there's not that massive carry that you sometimes get with the county championship games. I think Lee's over-prepared it. I told him to get the covers on two days before. Yeah, no, obviously five-day tests. You want it to go to five days.

So it'll be another couple of good days, and hopefully we can get a couple of early polls tomorrow. Word for Sonny Baker playing his first game. Batting, he would admit, is not his strong suit, but he really stuck in there with you, didn't he, in that partnership? Yeah, no, a couple of days out. We were down in the Indel school, both batting together, feeding each other on the machine.

I think that kind of helped us know each other's game and trust each other to do what role we needed to do. But he's unbelievable, like his character is infectious, his attitude's amazing, just charges in. He's a player that you want in your team. So, yeah, England are lucky to have someone like that to watch in the next 10, 15 years. It was a really important partnership

because, you know, it's the third highest partnership for England against New Zealand for the 10th cricket, incidentally. but at the time you'd lost a couple of early wickets it could have been looking down at a deficit of 150 getting it back to 100 psychologically significant yes yeah 100% and any bowler knows the longer you're out there batting less time

with your bowling boots on so I think we all use that as motivation really so yeah it's just about getting closer put them under pressure yes we've missed a few key moments in this game which we'd look back on and hopefully we could change next time but Credit to New Zealand, they've put us under the pump when we have let them have them key moments.

And we just got to keep running in, charges in, charging in, grafting. And hopefully we can, yeah, get a few poles early in the morning. What's your role here in this four-man seam attack? Well, to swing at early doors, I think we complement each other pretty well. The batch of balls, to be honest, weren't great when we looked at them, very red. usually the darker ones swing a lot more. And now it's got dry and more abrasive, it's hard to really shine at one side.

So the swing's kind of gone out of it. So I think my role now is just bash the pitch as much as I can get the keeper up. We saw it in the ashes down under with like Nisa and stuff. And a lot of batters these days use the crease to try and eliminate LBWs or whatever. And we've played with the leg slip. So it's all tactical to try and keep them in the crease and try and get them LB and bolds

because we think that's the main mode of dismissal now. So, yeah, just trying to be patient and not go for many runs. Like, we tried the aggressive option, then we tried being boring. Just always, Baz wants us to make them think. So, yeah, you're always trying to figure out a mode of dismissal and work out how to get them out of.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Step inside the Rangerover Sport and experience refinement in every detail. With features like cabin air purification and active noise cancellation, every drive feels composed and considered. Explore more at rangerover.ca. What do Beatles member, Sir Paul McCartney, YouTube megastar, Mr. Beast,

and former Facebook executive Cheryl Sandberg all have in common. They're all being discussed in the new season of Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast which explores the lives and fortunes of the world's super rich. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. now search for Good Bad Billioner wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Well that's Matt Henry speaking to Daniel Norcross. Now Ben Stokes has been in action today but not here at the Oval of course. He's been playing at Chester the Street for Durham against North Ants. He had a catch dropped in his first over and the North Hans batters have frustrated the Durham bowlers today but some interesting comments

from the Durham hierarchy today as well. Chief Executive Tim Bostock has been speaking about Stokes, turning to Chesler Street. Difficult situation. You know, we probably know as much everybody else in terms of what you've read in the papers, but it sounds like common sense is prevailing. Obviously, we're happy to have been here

playing for us this week in a really crucial game, but not under these circumstances. He really should be playing for England, but hopefully he'll be back Captain England next week at Trent Bridge. And now that he's made his return, what's he been like around the camp and has there been a need to kind of rally around him at all?

Well, not really. All his mates are here. We've got a very sensible group, I mean, it's just normal Ben. He's here all the time anyway. We don't say any different. And that was a little bit bemused about some of the comments about his state of mind. And maybe in the first 24 hours when all this sort of stuff exploded, I'm sure he was thinking, you know, what's happened here?

But he's been absolutely fine. I think as Ryan said the other day, he's very positive. He's always very positive. So we're looking forward to him getting out of the park and doing well for us this weekend. Well, that's Durham Chief Executive Tim Bostock, referring really to those comments from Brenda McCullum saying he was worried about Ben Stokes' state of mind. But as far as Durham are concerned, no problem at all, Jonathan. What do you make of that? It's just a crazy situation, isn't it?

I mean, it really is. We've suddenly got Ian Botham coming in as well. Making those comments. I mean, you wonder how it's been able to get quite to this stage. And I think probably a simple answer to that. is because it's just been allowed to be so protracted. And there hasn't, it's just been, it's a sort of a communication vacuum.

And people are saying, oh, people keep talking about Ben Stokes, who'll keep arrest, well, he's the even captain who's now out there playing for Durham. The chief executive of Durham is saying we should be playing for England. He's absolutely fine. He's his normal self. We've got the England coach saying, well, we're a bit worried about his mental health. You know, where's all this going? You know, it needs, I'm afraid. the ECB to get a grip and they should have done this days ago and just put a stop to all of this conjecture here we are we've got the Trent Bridge test match starting in less than a week

uh you know it could well be one-one and a vital test match in the series it just needs some clarity it needs some clarity on what is happening and there's still obisicism talk about this curfew and whether you know the the curfew was introduced on a tour if we really want to get trying to have some nitty gritty here now a tour is obvious you're there away every night and there's a curfew. Now part of the argument it could easily be here. Well if they can't be on a curfew all summer, when does the curfew end and the argument that Stokes might be using them? We don't know this for a fact and it's kind of common sense does the curfew end when the match ends and you go home,

you know if Jamie Smith's baby been born at three in the morning would he been breaking a curfew to be there at the bedside you know if you really want to get down to the nitty-gritty at this. How was this curfew explained to the players at the start of this series? And that I think is clearly important in all this because otherwise you're going to start getting legal. We're going to get starting litigious and when you you you know employment law and all of that I mean do you really want to go down to that but that's the stage it's been allowed to drift to and that's that's the problem. Is it your sense finally that Ben Stokes will be captained England in the next test match? Yes and and it's my feel that what

The only real option the ECB has now is just to put out the team for Trent Bridge at the end of this match, whenever that may be. Here's the team, here's the squad for England at Trent Bridge, Ben Stokes' captain, bum, bum, bum, and there's the list. I mean, I do think that Ben's going to explain something about what happened and his understanding of the curfew and why he went out that night. If he's saying, well, my thought was that the curfew ends when the match ends, unless there's something in black and white from Rob presumably pre that match saying there's a curfew in place everybody is to remind you and this is what it means well if there isn't that sort of clarity then I don't think the ball's got a leg to stand on okay thanks Agas look out on the BBC Sport website and that for much more on the Stokes story and the events here at the

Oval you'll also find coverage from the ongoing women's T20 World Cup which sees one of its marquee fixtures on Saturday night when England play Scotland at Headingley from 630 Henry Moran is in Leeds ahead of a rare meeting of the two neighbours. Remarkably, the only time in their history that England and Scotland's women have met on British shores was way back in 2001, one of just two fixtures that have been played between the sides. That day at Reading saw England pile on 262 for seven from 50 overs before Scotland were bowled out for 24 in 21.3 overs.

On Saturday night here at Headingley, it'll be a very different. scene. A raucous crowd will be watching a contest that feels long overdue, not least because of Scotland's rise over the course of the last 25 years. They come into the game having won one and lost one from their opening matches of this World Cup. Thursday's agonising defeat to the West Indies by seven runs was a steep learning curve, according to fast bowler Rachel Slater. It's obviously gutting in the moment and I think we definitely feel that in the group, but we've done a lot right in that game we've probably won 80% of it. So yeah, it's just the nature of playing against good teams, on good pitches.

You can't really give up those good positions when you get into them. And I think we've done that two or three times where we've actually been in a position to kill the game and just kind of let it go. But we're still very young. Like it's only our second World Cup, only our sixth World Cup game. So we'll learn from it and we'll be better for it. But yeah, it's just a very young. disappointing but like I said the disappointment is a good thing because it shows that

we know we should be winning those games. England Scotland there's always something a little bit extra in that how's the squad feeling? Yeah I think excited buzzing don't really get bigger than that to do at our World Cup as well I think it's exciting it's going to be one of those days that when you kind of retire and whatever you look back on regardless of the result and you're really proud to be a part of it and excited to be a part of it so I think for all of us kind of being able to stand out there, sing is going to be really special. So, yeah, we're excited. What about the prospects of beating England?

I mean, you've proven you can give every side a good game. Yeah, I think so. I think we're very much taking it one game at a time and just doing the basics, right? I think we know how good we are and know how good we can be. And we've showed glimpses of that in the past couple games. So, yeah, I think we're excited and we want to show the world what we can do. Whether Scotland will have enough to beat England remains to be seen, especially given the quality of the England bowling attack.

Three of the ICC's top four T20 bowlers are part of the squad, but left-arm spinner Sophie Eccleston isn't underestimating the threat coming from north of the border. I think they're going to be a great team. I feel like obviously like Cursie Gordon back with them now. It's obviously a great threat for them, so it's very exciting to play against them. I think it's really cool that we play at Scotland and Ireland

and, yeah, you have very good contests against them. So, yes, against Scotland tomorrow will be a big game. hopefully we finish tomorrow three from three. Does it feel a bit different when it's Scotland? That's the local rivalry. You know so many of the players. Yeah, defo. You don't want to lose it to Scotland, North Ireland.

So I feel like playing Scotland tomorrow will Deffo will be up for it. And yeah, wanting to get one over on them. Really? Is there that little extra sense? Yeah, I reckon so. I reckon for me personally, that definitely is because Scotland and Ireland, yeah, you don't want to lose them too specifically.

What you've seen elsewhere in the tournament, there have been brilliant matches and teams feel quite close together. Is this an ICC event where actually the, upsets are getting closer and closer. Yeah, I feel like everyone can beat anyone. It's been so cool to watch how many games have come on and how many runs are being scored. It's been really cool. So I feel like anyone can beat anyone and it's kind of, yeah, the best will come out on top, obviously.

But I'm going to some nice competitions along the way. With this World Cup being on home soil, there's a lot of expectation, obviously, in the history of England having success on home soil. Do you feel well equipped, given the big crowds you've played in front of at the 100, at the Women's Premier League? that actually that expectation is something you can thrive on. Yeah, I think it's well exciting. I feel like to see home crowds coming in

and the noise that's happening at our game is amazing. So to have home crowds that went out, the first member debut were playing at Leicester and Small Grounds where we were just selling them out, but now we play the Oval and Lords, and that's so cool. And it could be lively tomorrow night at headily. It's always a lively up north, in there. The Norvers get out and yeah, it should be so lively, hopefully,

on a Saturday night as well. Lively, certainly. England, though, will be without Captain Nats, Siverbrunt for at least the next couple of games as she nurses a calf injury. She's still with the squad and her charges will be all but in the semi-finals with a win on Saturday evening. Test match special coverage will begin on five sports extra two and BBC sounds from 615 with highlights on the BBC Sport website and app. Thanks Henry. So two England teams in action on Saturday and we'll have coverage of both from 10 o'clock. Five Lights 4th

My favourite World Cup moment It's the first World Cup I properly remember watching Argentina 78 The Ticket tape Mario Kempes Ari Hahn's scoring goals from miles out And always one of my favourite World Cup moments Archie Gemmell's great goal for Scotland against the Dutch What makes the World Cup such a special tournament

Is the atmosphere, the colour It is a meeting of the nations And of people who love football The People World Cup 2026. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the open road, conditions change. Your composure doesn't have to. But technologies like terrain response to and clear sight ground view,

Range Rover Sport brings confidence and control the challenging conditions. Explore more at rangerover.ca. What do Beatles member Sir Paul McCartney? YouTube megastar, Mr. Beast, and former Facebook executive Cheryl Sandberg all have in common. They're all being discussed in the new season of Good Bad Bid. The Podcast, which explores the lives and fortunes of the world's super rich. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.

Listen now, search for Good Bad Billionaire, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.