Test Match Special - Strategic Timeout: Chris Green talks IPL, Brendon McCullum & Shubman Gill

Episode Date: May 17, 2026

Australia all-rounder Chris Green joins Traitors finalist Faraaz Noor and Amber Sandhu to discuss the biggest stories in the IPL as well as discussing his career in franchise cricket and playing under Eoin Morgan and Brendon McCullum.

You can keep up with all things IPL by watching Strategic Timeout in full on the BBC Sport YouTube channel and BBC IPlayer. Oh, we are so back. Welcome along to another episode of Strategic Time Out, the place where we debrief all things IPL 2026. Now it's crunch time. There's a lot of chat about the playoffs and who is going to get those all important top four spots. It quite literally is all to play for. And two people who would definitely make my top four join. me on today's show. He's somebody that I feel like has played in every franchise tournament there is in the world. If you look into his eyes for too long, you might get bowled out. It's Oz you all round of Chris Green. And alongside him, if you look into this person's eyes, I reckon all you see is food, food, food, or in his word, Scran. It is Traitor's finalist and all around cricket

badger for us. What do you think of my intro? Very good. Nailed it then. They're getting better. We're five episodes in. It's great to see you, both come back from your travels, two very different travels. Chris, you're fresh from PSL, you went Pakistan, then to Australia, then here. You've come back from a boy's trip in Marbeia. So how were your travels? I enjoyed, might be fair. It was a nice little rest and relaxation period.

Hit the gym a couple times as well, but then got my two-step going as well, got my shoulders going as well. Bit of dance in Marbeah. Yeah, it wasn't too bad, wasn't too. And loads of Hindus were loving me actually as well. Were they now? To be honest, I should have a charge and they were like, oh, can we have a photo? Oh, can we have a four?

I was like, yeah, cause, no worries. I bet they were loving you. Yeah, I know. There was one, bless them. They were like, oh, do you want to drink? Do you want any vodka? And I was like, did you watch the show? Like, I don't drink.

I'm Muslim, you know what I mean? But I was like, no, I'm fine. It's no worry, no, I'm. She went, no, no, sit with us. I was like, no, I'm fine. Then my mate were like, oh, why didn't you get us any free drinks and that? I was like, why would I get you free drinks and put your hand in your pocket and sort yourself out? So you were a hit with the girls in Marbea?

Yeah, yeah, but I'm... Yeah, we'll leave that there. We'll leave that right there. Chris, it's a joy to have you on. Welcome back to the UK as well. And how was it being out in Pakistan and playing in the PSL? Yeah, it was good. It was five or six weeks there.

It was my first time I'd been there since 2019. And my two stints prior, I'd only done 24-hour stints. So it was when the PSL was all in Dubai. And I was part of that sort of first crew in 2018. It went back to Pakistan for the first time since that Sri Lankan terror attack. And, yeah, unfortunately we lost the playoffs. So flew in 3 a.m. played 7 p.m. flew out 3 a.m. For this time around, we were in Lahore and Karachi.

And then, yeah, we lost in the playoffs. And I flew home for 36 hours before coming to sunny, warm Manchester. I was going to say, went to pick up your wife, your lovely wife, and then going to pick up some warm clothes because you know Manchester very well, don't you? Yeah, I do. I do. So, yeah, I got some brownie points. but I was sick the last day in Pakistan during the game,

so I took the flu back with me, passed that on to her. So all the hard work I grafted in going back and doing the right thing, I think I lost it all by making her sick. Hard life being a bloke, isn't it? Yeah. Very hard, very odd indeed. Man flu, low. Man flu, you can't be it.

Oh, don't even get me started. There's no such thing. So Chris's misses probably all right because it's not man flu, you know what I mean? But when Chris had it, oh, it's Blake, yeah. Written off. It's because men can't deal with illness.

Can I just say? No, that's out of order that way. How was the tournament, how has it been out there? Because I mentioned in the intro, you are somebody who knows the franchise world very well. So how does it compare to the other tournaments you played in? Yeah, it's, I mean, it's changed a lot since I've done it because my three years, I did it at the start. We're all in Dubai, obviously. So being in Pakistan was cool.

Unfortunately, due to, I think, security, there was some issues on the Afghan-Pakistan border. And then obviously the fuel crisis as well going on in the world. We was behind closed doors for the round game. games, which was hard work. It actually reminded me I'd flashbacks to COVID again, and that was a horrible time. Just, you know, no crowds, no interaction. But then for the playoffs, we had fans, and that was really cool. So my team, Islamabad finished second.

We played Zami in the first playoff, and that was Bubba Zahm's team, and that was sellout. And it was the biggest crowd cheer I've heard in a long time when we won the toss and chose to bowl first, because obviously they were seeing Bubba walk out and bat very quickly, and he got 100. So, yeah, the atmosphere was awesome. We unfortunately lost the next one. But the tournament was good.

The people are amazing. And that's the main thing that I like in going from place to place is just immersing myself as much as possible in local cultures, wherever I am, understanding. I guess everyone has the same sort of passion and dedication and love for the game at cricket, but is brought to it in different ways. So that's what I find fascinating and really cool as well.

Did you get to immerse yourself in any of the course? culture in Pakistan. We did. I mean, as much as you can from a lot of the time, we were in the hotel, but then we did go out to different restaurants and have local food and whatnot. But, you know, in terms of like local interaction, that was probably one thing that lacked due to security reasons, but the food was one thing that really impressed me. Was there anything that stood out in particular? Oh, just the meat. We're what we have. We had everything, but just, I don't know, I find, the difference between Pakistani food and Indian food, while it seemed like there was more,

there was a lot more bones in everything, but the meat that would fall off the bones was so succulent. And you certainly, as a loving meat eater, I absolutely loved it. So, yeah, that was the main thing that kind of stood out. But I was happy to try anything and everything as long as it wasn't seafood. That's where it would be.

This is music to your ears, though, because you love your food, don't you? It can't beat you. So I'm glad Chris enjoy you to this Pakistani cuisine as well. Should we catch up about this year's IPL? Sounds good. I mean, we could talk about your franchise experience.

No, we could do, Chris because you're full of great stories, honestly. No, and it's a joy to have you on. But, I mean, as with every franchise tournament, it is constantly changing. I mean, the last time we recorded, there was a different team at the top of the table. At the time of recording, Gujarat Titans, who have had a late resurgence. Quite a few teams have climbed up that table. A team like Punjab that were dominating have now gone on a run of losses. So for both of you, I know you've been very busy, but.

Is there anything that stuck out to you, question for both of you? What have you liked the look of in the last week or so? Especially we're getting to the playoff spots as well. Yeah, I think for me, watching yesterday's game, especially when you've got second and third battling out with the Titans and the Sunrises, of how the Titans sort of... So they started off quite slow in the power play. I think they're only up 36 off about the first six overs.

But they didn't throw the wickets away and they kept the wickets, and they got to a decent because the deck was decent. There was a bit in it for the ballers as well. Which has been quite rare, sure. guys we've been talking about how flat the death of ballers yeah there was a bit of grass and there's a few cracks as well which shored because there was a lot of movement at the start and they got 168 and they said that 161 70 be a good score and they just dispatched to the sunrises like I think they bawled them out and they won with 80 runs to spare or something like that

and it was just the fact that rabada and saraj stick into the line sticking to the lens it was sort of just going back to what works when you're when you're when you hit your lengths, it's so hard to get away, especially when you've got these world-class operators. So it was nice to see something, go back in the ball as favour as well, especially with RCB's game the other day, where it went down on the last ball. It's good to see that bit of needle and stuff. But it was good to see booby smashing it as well.

It was mental. Overcover. I know, yeah, it was mental. But, yeah, I think that's what I really enjoyed the past few days, the past couple games. And teams like RCB and Punjab having to watch their backs, because you've got teams that are just climbing up that time. They've come out of nowhere, let's be honest.

Chris, what about for you? Anyone that stuck out to you? Hasn't really been individual players. I think what I've enjoyed about it and watching from afar is at the start, it was this wham-bam, thank you ma'am tournament of just batters dispatchy and everywhere. There's been a little bit of clawback from the bowlers and some key bowlers that have stood out. But, you know, I think in it being such a long tournament to see so many different teams in the mix for qualification at the start, it was like, okay, it's just going to be a four-horse race or a three-hoss race between who gets in there.

But now to actually have five, six teams that can get in that qualification race makes it interesting, makes it about who can hold their nerve the best. And in tournament cricket, it doesn't matter how, where you finish. As long as you get into that playoff spot, you're in with a chance of winning it. You see teams so often who dominate throughout the tournament finish first and don't end up winning it. It's the teams that finish second, third or fourth, and get the teams that finish second, that like I was sort of alluding to is, is feedback about what's been working well, where they need to brush up on, not peaking their best cricket too early.

Everyone talks about momentum, which is this elusive word that no one really knows what it means, but basically is just coming in, feeling confident and good about your game rather than, you know, when's our next bad performance happening because we've had so many good ones along the way. So I think what I'm looking forward to is to see who sort of comes into that playoff race with some steam in the engine, flying, playing the best cricket at the back end, which I think is exciting. Is there such thing as peaking too soon in a tournament like a job? Yeah, definitely. There is isn't there? Chris hit the nail on the head there where you really want a time you're

running time that bombed on you because you're not going to win the IPL in the first couple weeks, I eat. So yeah. But you can lose it. Yeah, you're right there. That's the crazy thing with tournament cricket is you can't win it early, but you can lose it. So I think it's in a really interesting phase because it is there's so many games on and it's so hard to follow but now to have different options for a finals race I think's starting to get really exciting at the time of recording eight teams could theoretically all qualify which is a bit crazy isn't it they could all theoretically qualify for that for the top four spot I've already ruled out a few that's why I said final six there's no way Mumbai will be in there no no no after the RTV game um there's been a lot of chat on

the show about the wicket and the pitches. As an off-spinner, would you fancy bowling on that? No chance. Thank God I'm not there. It reminds me of my first experience at T-10 where I had to bowl on the power play for two of the three overs in the power play. Thank you, Darren Sammy. I absolutely love you for it.

And I just tried to bowl 12 Yorkers. And I was like, I'm an off-spinner trying to bowl 12 Yorkers. What's going on here? And to watch those guys, some of the world's best get hit. You know, if you go at 12 and over, in the IPL at start of the tournament or in some venues, you've actually had a good night. Anything at 10 and over, you're a genius bowler.

And then you see these freaks who go at 6 and over and you're like, well, what did you have for breakfast? I want the same. Yeah. Because it's just normal procedure to go at 15 and over, struggle away, try and take a couple of wickets to make it look a bit better. But teams are scoring over 200 like it's normal. Well, 200 is not even an average score anymore.

It's not enough. Yeah. But you see 200, you think, oh, it's not par. Yeah, they're under par. They're 20, 30 under par. Right. I think that was a breath of fresh air yesterday when Saraj opened up with a wicket maid and you're like, what is going on?

What is this sorcery? Chris, I was looking at the list. You've been playing franchise cricket for over 10 years, you know, from the Big Bash and captain there to CPL to Sri Lanka to, you know, of the IPL as well. Have you got any favourites? It's hard. I love them all for different reasons. I like coming to England, but I have a strong bias.

I've got an English mum. So I get to see my family and have my family come watch me play. So I love coming here. Obviously, a lot of the time my family come out from Oz to watch as well, because especially mum, she gets to see family and watch me play cricket. So that's really special. So England has a close place to my heart. The caravans a lot of fun.

You're the second person to come on the show and say this. Can you just tell us what it is, please? I think, again, it's the people. The thing that I was first amazed about by the Caribbean Premier League in particular, and I think it's hashtag the biggest party in sport is what their token term is. And it certainly is on and off the field, but their passion for cricket and almost old-school approach to the game, both as fans and as players, was a thing that blew me. Because you sort of see Caribbean cricket as this laid back, you know, cool

dudes, which they are, but when it comes to that crunch time in the huddle moment, they're very much down the line, old school authoritarian way, you know, this is how we do things, this is how it should be done. And the fans are even more direct in the way they speak to their passion and understanding of the game as well. So that was the kind of, not shock, but awakening to their culture. But, yeah, it's a lot of fun. I mean, your island hopping around the Caribbean playing cricket in different places.

It's not good. Yeah, it's going to say. It's not bad. Who was someone that maybe surprised you coming out like that where you thought they were really laid back and then when it came and wait, they sort of put the foot down and... Oh, they all do it.

Like, even the approach and the warm-ups, it's sort of quiet, cool, they're strutting their stuff, and then we have the huddle, and you get the, right, listen to me, listen to me straight, is what's happening. And Robin Powell's one that has that cool swagger. He's such a good player,

dangerous player. And I really enjoy playing with and underneath Rod Rovman, but he's got that swagger. And then the first thing he says, all right, listen up fellas. And you're like, okay, I'm listening. I better make sure I'm taking it back to school. And like everyone is drawn to him. He has that natural presence as a leader as well.

But yeah, that was the sort of style of player that you see around the world. He's a dangerous player. He's cool, laid back. But when it comes to crunch time, he's very much switched on and focused on his skills. And it's probably a term that doesn't get alike into West Indian Caribbean. superstars that they are, but they're very much, you know, driven and direct, particularly someone like that with a lot of his backstory as well. But work, hard, play hard.

Yeah. A lot of them don't drink. A lot of them don't drink. You know, Dwayne Bravo doesn't drink and he's probably one of the leaders of the party scene with his singing and dancing. But yeah, a lot of them don't drink. That was another surprise as well. You think it is that work, hard, play hard mentality.

But, yeah, they're very switched on to their cricket, which was cool. Let's talk about your IPL journey then. It was one year in 2020. Probably not how you wanted it to go, Chris. Let's be honest, because it was one game. It was during COVID. It was not how you imagined your IPL journey to be for Cold Cutter Nightriders. Yeah, it was, you know, at 2019, end of 2019.

I think I played a game in Hobart during the Big Bash. And the auction that year was on, my name got called out. I wasn't expecting it. very, very shocked just because the depth of, I guess, spinner batters there are in that tournament and how tough it is for overseas players to regularly get those positions. And I think like everyone, really excited looking forward to what 2020 had to offer.

And then that COVID curtain came down and the uncertainty was there. And it got pushed to rather than that normal window that it's in, in this window currently, it was pushed to after the CPL in, I think it was like August. Yeah, September, November. Yeah, September and November. finished the CPL. I thought, wow, this is a great start. Kolkata were flying us in a private jet from the Caribbean to Abu Dhabi.

So I was like, the IPL is pretty impressive. Second person to mention private jet, by the way, as well, on this episode, just so. So that was a nice start to proceedings. But then as it was in 2020 and 2021, it was just quarantine and COVID tests and no crowds and interaction. And, you know, I think one thing that I was looking forward to was that the madness and the passion of the game that comes with cricket in India, never mind the IPL in itself. So that was, I guess, probably a big hole for me that lacked in that experience.

And something that, you know, I was absolutely over the moon to play, to be around some of the best Indian cricketers for the first time, coaches and the like, and even the resources that they had brought over to Abu Dhabi for Kolkata Night Riders was truly spectacular. and playing in front of these like LED screen fans around the ground, which was, yeah, very, very odd. But like, you know, it gets on your nerves. Eventually you've got the noises that you hear through the TV, like the trumpet and the music and whatever,

pumping out at games thinking it would help us. And we're there with empty stadiums, just getting headaches, especially when you're not playing. When you're playing, you kind of don't notice it. But when you're not playing, you notice every bit of it. So yeah, it was a sort of roller coaster experience. I was very grateful that I got it. But yeah, still lacking that IPL in India experience, which would be really cool.

You're still itching for that? Itching, yeah, itching. So I've got to keep trying to perform and hope I get lucky one year in that auction. But if not, it's, you know, keep trying to tick away and play elsewhere as much as possible. You know, going back on that during the behind-the-closed-doors games, how hard was it to sort of cite yourself up for them games or was there something that in particular you'd do to cite yourself up for them yeah i i think you know then and even now recently in pakistan it's it you feel like you're you're exerting a lot more energy than what you used to

because of the adrenaline and i guess again the energy that you vibe off from the crowd and interaction and and having that aura or feeling or whatever it is. You know, here in England, it's the singing the songs. Everyone, you know, the music cuts out, everyone's singing and up whether, and I'm being Australian in particular, you get abused a lot by the English crowd, but it makes it part of it. It makes it easy to get up for and it sort of feeds your, your energy tank if that makes sense.

When there's no crowds there, it just feels like you, you know, your plot, you can hear everything, but you're just there. and the day feels longer, the game feels longer. Your highs and lows are sort of drawn out for longer periods of time as well. Like you remember your highs when you're in that crowd spectacle, they're a lot more memorable is what I guess I'm trying to say. And then when you're in the lows of no crowd, you remember those a lot more as well because you're there thinking about it.

You've got no distractions. You're just in the outfield going, why did I do that? Or how could I've done that? So yeah, it is a more draining experience just because for me personally, I feed off that crowd atmosphere and to sort of pump the adrenaline. So it's just trying to get into the heat of the battle and hopefully the ball comes to you a lot in the field. If it doesn't, it does feel like what's going on here.

Yeah. Just thinking about those players that you would have encountered at Calcutter, but also you said the CPL was one of your favourite leagues. You would have played with players from across the world, Chris. So are there ones that stand out for your ones that you've perhaps stayed friends with or you've got something from while she played with them? Yeah, I try and pick up something along the way wherever I go. I think my first ever tournament overseas was the PSL in 2017 when it was in Dubai. And I remember going down to breakfast.

So it was like the first time I've flown business class, first time I was staying in this fancy hotel, go down to breakfast in the morning, still jet lagged. And, you know, I played with Shane Watson that season. So I knew him. We were sitting together in this, like, booth. And then in comes Brendan McCullum, then Kumar Sangu-Kara, then Kevin Peterson, then Mihaila J. Wardner. And I'm like, this is getting out of hand, really.

So I remember just sitting there, just listening. I didn't really say much. I remember going straight back up to my room and calling my dad. and then my mum joined the call as well and I was like I've got off in the wrong spot you know all these heroes of mine the guys that you know I sat on the couch as a youngster watching listening to my dad so you know if you're going to play cricket these are the sort of players you're going to watch all of a sudden you fast forward to 2017 there I am sitting in this hotel breakfast area with some of my cricketing heroes and guys that I just admired so like I felt like in my

that particularly the early stages of my career in traveling and those types of players at the back end of theirs traveling around the world and trying to just pick up bits and pieces from their 10, 15, 20 year journeys of what they did, what made them successful as my journey was sort of starting out just trying to apply that one or two percent. Well, at the time I felt like it was a thousand percent, but learning. It's only you just need that little one percent or, you know, conversation I had in 2017, could it apply to tomorrow in some way or, you know, trying to sort of fast track a little bit my development along the way. So that was, you know, a crazy start and something that I do try and do. You know, from a leadership perspective, I've been lucky to play underneath

the likes of Brendan McCullum, Owen Morgan, Mike Hussey, who have really shaped my leadership sort of style and watching, you know, arguably three of the best leaders in their right, along with many others, but just, you know, trying to pick up bits and pieces from different players that have done so much in the game along the way has been a key goal of mine, especially in tournaments where I wasn't playing. And during the IPL, where I wasn't playing, we were lucky we had Dinesh Kartik. It was obviously Brendan McCallum's first big gig as coach. I think he was meant to be mentor and took over his coach. I can't remember who from.

Owen Morgan came in and, you know, Dinesh and Owen both captain that year. So seeing their leadership styles and Brendan's coaching style come in, I learned a lot, playing with youngsters like, well, it was youngster. He was the up-and-comer then. It was Shubman Gill. Oh, wow.

And look at him now. Yeah, look at him now. And, you know, just watching him go through that tournament, scoring 50s for fun in 2020. And now to be. become the captain he is and the world dominator that he is. And, um, you know, I still, we still send each other a few cheeky messages, probably more me sending him messages than him sending me. But I, we spent a lot of the time in the gym together, um, competing. And then two other

young guys that were in his under 19s team, um, were, um, Nagu Koti and Shiva Marvi, um, who are still, you know, doing really well. And then probably the best friendship that came out of that year, or two or three of the best friendships that I had out of that year were Cool Deep Yadav, Rinku Singh and Nitish Rana. There were three guys that, I don't know whether we just caused a lot of trouble off the field in that time, but I ended up spending a lot of time with them. So, yeah, I had a great experience. And like I said, just everywhere I go, I try and pick up, whether it just be a friendship

or a relationship or something that I can make it memorable, but then hopefully learn one or two things along the way as well. We've got to know a bit more about that trouble, don't we? Yeah, I was going to say. There's not much we could do. It was in a COVID bubble. If we left, we would have got arrested. So we didn't go to jail and that's the main thing.

But now, they're really good guys and just, yeah, good people. And I ended up making my debut for Australia and Rinku was in the opposition. I think I watched him hit four or five sixes and eight balls at the end. So it was sort of at the launch of his phase of his career and at that time as well. so that was really cool to connect with him after the game and see him again. And luckily I didn't have to bowl to him, which was great. And you know, touching on obviously the caliber players that you were surrounded with and things and you try to pick things up from them all,

what was sort of one thing that you've picked up from them that's most vital to you in your game? That's a good question. I don't think I've ever been asked that. I think my learnings from all of it and a lot of the guys that sort of go through it and even anything that that I pass on now is those guys were really, really authentic and to themselves and their own game and the huge amount of trust they have in their ability and their skill set and what they've been able to develop. You know, I think at the early stages of my career and even, you know, at times recently, you're constantly doubting

whether you're good enough, whether what you do is good enough and you're faced in these different scenarios in different conditions all around the world. And I think the guys who are ultimately the most successful is they have that trust in their ability no matter what. And they do make small adjustments based on conditions, but they stay true to themselves. They trust their game. And at the end of the day, they're very comfortable and happy to wake up. If they fail, wake up the next day and back it in again and again. And, you know, they kind of know, they kind of know more. more times than not if they do that, they will be successful at the end of the day. So that's like my summation of it all rather than going through each little bit.

But that's the main thing that I guess I'm trying to do now as I go tournament to tournament or country to country, trying to bring the best version of myself every day and hope I get lucky. It's a nice message out though, just balking yourself because you've got there for a reason, haven't you? So just about, yeah, instilling that nice. You mentioned three names, Chris. Mike, I see, Brendan McCollum and Owen Morgan. Three very different characters there.

But I wonder how they've shaped how you've become as a leader. And I'm kind of asking what kind of captain you are. Yeah, I think, like, Mike was my first captain at the Sydney Thunder. You know, long story short, I was a kid who moved over from South Africa to Australia in 2001 idolizing Jack Callas. He was my cricketing hero. Fast forward to 2014, where I get my first call about being a professional cricketer, getting the last contract and the Sydney Thunder,

knowing that Jack Callis was going to be the overseas player. I must have been surreal. That was scary stuff. The other person on that team that I knew was Mike Hussey, and he was my Australian hero, if you like. I had my childhood hero, cricketing hero, and he still is in Jack Callis, but in moving over to Australia, a guy that I admired and loved watching play was Mike Hussey.

It just seemed, you know, they called him Mr. Cricket, but he just seemed to always just compete, try his best, looked like a good team man, and, you know, play the game the right way, if you like. And upon meeting him and playing with him, it was just exemplified that he just is that type of person. He's ultra competitive internally, which I related to, and sometimes mine's externally.

rather than just internally. And I know everyone has that, but he always wanted to do well, wanted to win, wanted to fight. But externally, he was just a really good guy, really caring, really, you know, aware of his environment and being incredibly inclusive as a leader and empowering or making everyone feel empowered

that they had a voice within the team, not just the most experienced or the nicest guys or the coolest guys or whoever it may be. He found a way to give everyone in that dressing room a voice. and it's it's something that I try and emulate. It's not easy, but I think, again, it comes back to just being authentic and going, well, how do I bring the best version of me is I've got to, you know, ensure as a captain that everyone feels a part of the team.

Everyone feels like they're heading in the same direction, and that was what I learned from him. And, you know, he became a sort of mentor, if you like. And I played underneath his coaching for the first time at the Welsh, last year, which was great fun to reconnect and relive some old memories that we had from playing with each other. But even when I've captained in Guyana, he was the first guy I picked the phone up to and said, you know, I've been told I'm captaining tomorrow. It's kind of thrust on me. I didn't expect it. This is my, I shouldn't be captaining tomorrow, but I am. I've been told I have

to do it. What do you reckon? He's the one thing that stuck by me. And a lot of the other guys sort of say the same in a very different way as he said you'll never regret a gut in going going with your gut you know very often you you have a conversation like the three of us i'll ask you what you think i'll ask you what you think you tell me my gut will say you know the sky's blue you say it's red you say it's green i go fine i'll go with red i wake up tomorrow and it's like i knew it was blue and i don't sleep and if i'd gone with my gut feel even though you know it was right or wrong i can learn from that and live with that a lot better. So that was one thing I learned from Mike.

And, you know, Owen was a kind of guy who, in high-pressure scenarios, he always just looks so calm and level. So-com. So-cal. Never showed, you know, sort of emotion in those moments either way. And I remember in the IPL, I eventually plucked up the courage. After playing with him as well at The Thunder, I was like, do you practice this?

Do you actually practice being so calm and collected? And he said one of the tricks he used to do was ensure that when the bowler or the fast bowler or spinner was under pressure or the ball was traveling is he would hold the ball. And rather than if you were holding the ball and I was asking you what you want or what you're thinking, he would hold the ball. And then ask the question so that you're directly engaged in here rather than sort of scattered that way. So there was elements of, you know, purposeful mechanisms to his leadership that he did, which I found really interesting. But the thing that impressed me most with him was just his levelness. And, you know, you saw the success that English Weipel team had under him, the trust and faith they all had for him. And the backing he had of his team was amazing.

And then, you know, McCullum had this, I don't know, he has this, like, aura about him. I think he's done it in a way with Stokes. And I think Stokes from the outside in has it as well as like, come with me. I'm going to do the hard work. I'm going to make it. It will look ugly at times. It's going to look awesome at times. But I'm really going to take charge and lead from a front.

And I'm going to drag you all with me along for the ride. And I'm going to do some of the heavy lifting. And those were a lot of my observations of Baz in his style that was like, all right, well, you know, and the nitty gritty, the captain has to put his neck on the line and make a stance and make a change in the game. and, you know, at times it's not going to look pretty, but you've got to be willing to, you know, live and die by the sword a little bit as well. So, yeah, three different styles, also different to me.

I think, you know, like I'm someone who's highly competitive tries to remain as calm as possible in the moment. I think bowling off spin in T20 cricket helps me with that and you have to be highly competitive. You have to try and find a way to get be calm, because you're constantly, batterers are just trying to slog you out of the park every ball, because you're not a big threat to them,

can't bowl bounces, you know, bowl quick, I don't have an element of mystery. It's just a little bit of nouse, game nouse, that you try and apply. And I think that stems into areas of the leadership that I try and bring into the game when I do get that opportunity is to be super competitive,

calm, and then, you know, play the game as hard as I can with a smile on my face. and hopefully we can have fun out there. And, yeah, whether that typifies those three and a bit of me, that's kind of like the leadership journey and style that I'm still learning and evolving along the way. They're not three, that's not a bad three unofficial mentors to have. Not the worst more to be to do office.

It's not, though, because it sounds like you treat them like unofficial mentors. I mean, I know you picked up the phone to Mike Hussey, but it sounds like you've learned a lot from all three of them. Do you enjoy being captain, Chris? I do. I do. I think it's something that that does come naturally to me, again, whether it's through the role that I play, but I do try and lead by example, lead from the front and impact the game. And I guess when I think about it, yeah, I do enjoy it. Sometimes it gets busier as a captain. and I think areas that I know that I need to improve on

is when it comes to me last minute, which does in the T20 world overseas, about empowering others and not trying to carry the burden all by myself. And I think a lot of captains and people will talk about captaincy being a very lonely place at times, both on and off the field. And I think my learnings is sort of in that leadership, style and it's so hard to do but actually letting a lot of the control go and empowering people around you to to pick that up and finding out the right player or players and also coaches to to work

together as a group and be a sort of collaborative style i i certainly don't like to be uh you know it's my way or the highway this is how we're going to do it i'm going to take charge and come follow me if i'm going to do selections and everything like that i think it's that's too busy I much prefer a collaborative style approach. So yeah, in the right environment, it's been great fun. In the wrong environments, I've learnt a hell of a lot about myself and my journey. So it's the same as winning and losing. When you're winning, you're having fun.

When you're losing, you get that feedback and you learn so much more. You know, as a captain, has there been ever a couple moments, so one moment maybe where you've really sort of struggling here and you sort of in the pits of it. And then on the flip side of that way, you really thought, like, I've done well there. I've done a good job there. I guess you get that feedback.

You get that feeling internally of whether it's doubt or that gut churning in game. And that's probably what I was alluding to earlier. There's so many moments within a game that you're kind of educated, guessing, as to how it will pan out based on the opposition, based on the preparation, based on the conditions. And you have these feelings of you're like, you know,

I think this is what we should do. And you've obviously got to be a lot more committed and believable in that style and say, right, this is what we're going to do. But then when you walk away from that conversation, whether it be with the team or a bowler or a batter, you think, okay, I hope that was right. Or, you know, and then you wait for the feedback from the game to go, whether you were right or wrong.

And again, when I've gone with my gut, I've learned a lot more than not going with it because you have sleepless nights when you go, I had that gut feel. And it went the way my gut was saying, but I listened to someone who's played 500 games like I should have done. You know, you listen to someone that you actually should be listening to. They provide whether it's their gut feel or whatever.

It doesn't go that way and it goes where your gut was, whether you didn't voice it or not, and you just lose so much leap over it. So, yeah, that's the joys of captaining in the T-20 game where you just have this topsy-turvy rollercoaster journey of feedback and guesstimations that you hope pay off. Right, Chris, bear with us. But we have a little something for you.

It's something that we started on the show last week with Mark Wood. We've got an Indian sweet tree. Now, stick with me. The sweet tree is basically a metaphor for, runs big scores and essentially is it too much of a good thing I'll be honest we just wanted to have a sweet treat on the side it's a very loose thing

yeah guarded by the glove yeah right so these are jalebis they're just sugar pure sugar but they look like this they are insane what actually isn't it just sugar and oil and fried sugar sugar sugar syrup

flour yeah and they're deep fried I think but someone's going to tell me the YouTube truels full of runs yeah Full of runs. These will get you. I should have come on a week earlier. We needed on the snake pit at Old Trapper for the four days.

We know you're an absolute athlete, but would you like one? Yeah, I definitely have to try one now. Okay, here you go. I don't try one. I'll get a duck. You're not going to Marbea anymore. Will you have one? No, I'm not even more.

For Micanos in August. Surely not. For another gym holiday. Surely not. I'll give it a go. I hope someone needs to rinse him in the comments. I'll have yours then. And let us know what you think, Chris.

This is essentially, is it true? much of a good thing. This is a metaphor for runs. Is it too much of a good thing. And the boundaries, sorry, talking about my mouth, focus on. You're all mate to you. Yeah, we are. It's fine. That's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's sweet. You couldn't have a lot of them. Well, I mean, it depends who are you could, but

I don't usually have a sweet tooth, but that's really nice. Tell us what your dad does. So my dad substitutes cereal for them in warm milk. And to be honest, it sounds really nice. It's a really good combination, though. Yeah, it is very good. And then he got my sister onto it, but she added it in to her cereal as well. Oh, right.

Yeah, so she was fuelled. How many would you put in, like, a bowl of cereal? You'd have to ask my dad, to be honest. I think you... I think you take the whole box. I take that home. To be honest, I actually, mate, you know. Thoughts?

Had you had that when you've been on your travels before? I think I have tried that before. Big in Pakistan as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think I may have had that when I was in India. for my debut tour. I just remember having something sweet like that.

It was really nice. Cup of tea. Yeah, afterno. Yeah, exactly. Next time. Yeah, next time. We haven't got much time left, but it's been a joy to have you on. Summer, we're going to see you here in Manchester up until July.

Is that right? Yeah, I'm here. I came early. Jimmy rang me in Pakistan saying, can you come early? Or he messaged me. Didn't ring me saying, if you're keen, we'd love to have you early for these two, four days. and it's not a man, it's easy to say no to. Especially when I love playing for lengths.

So I play these two four days before the blast, play the full blast, and I think there's two four days in the blast. So I'm here till the 20th of July, hopefully after finals day. Fantastic. I jet off to the Caribbean. So, yeah, the so-called half-summer I'll be here for. Oh, no, it'll be amazing.

And quickly before you go, we always get people's predictions. We are very close to the playoffs now. You said you've already got five teams in mind. Who do you think is going to take the title this year? So I think the top four will be sunrises, Gujarat, RCB and Punjab. And I don't know in what order. I don't, I'm not going to guess that. I think the team that will win the IPL, I don't think RCB will do it.

I think Phil Salt's a big loss. I think it'll be, I actually like the sunrises. I think either sunrise. I think it'll be a Sunrises Punjab final. Goodrat will be in the top two playoff and lose both. And I reckon, yeah, Sunrises, Punjab final. And I think the sunrises get over the line. Okay.

I think Chris is the first player to say Sunrises. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You still sticking with your predictions. You can't change yours, actually. Well, at the start of this series, I said Mumbai India. That's what I'm saying. You can't change yours. But then I've changed to RCB, didn't I?

I think that's what we call a Glory Hunter. change then I'll then to be fair you spot on there like yeah if I can't change I'll stick with RCP I'll see if you have to like yeah Phil Salt gets back there I like I like your prediction but I think he's a big loss no um for us Chris it's been a pleasure thank you so much for being on strategic time out that's all we've got time for I'm about to go for a sugar rush because we've got Julebys in front of us we'll see you next week for another episode live sports BBC women's football weekly the latest news insights and analysis from across the Game, game, game.

Dame Serena Vigman, welcome to the moment. Are we including Dame in your title now? You know how much an honour that is? I'm interested! You want to play in a way that they can show their skills, so that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup, it's a dream. Listen.

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