Test Match Special - The 1975 World Cup Final - fifty years on

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

Jonathan Agnew hears from Sir Clive Lloyd, Dickie Bird and more to remember the West Indies' thrilling win against Australia to lift the first Men's World Cup in 1975.

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you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit Wise.com. T's and C's and C's Apply. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew. Welcome to a bonus test match special podcast, remembering the 1975 men's World Cup final. And during the next half hour, we'll be hearing from Sir Clive Lloyd, Dickie Byrd and others looking back on a special Lord's occasion. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live. 50 years ago today, the first men's World Cup final took place at Lord.

I remember that happening so clearly. on the toss. The captain Ian Chappell elected to bowl first. Chapel led aside that included people like Doug Walters, Rod Marsh, Jeff Thompson and Dennis Lilly and amongst them in the West Indies, Lloyd, Viv Richards, Andy Roberts

and Gordon Greenwich, all part of that side. So off to the comedy box we go high up in the pavilion in those days. As West Indies began their innings in shaky fashion before staging a wonderful fight back. The shadow of a cloud just slides across the ground and then it's all

in bright sunshine again as Lily prepares to bowl and comes up now from the nursery end body thrown well forward bowls and Frederick hooks this bouncer and knocks a bail off and he's out he's out he hooked that bouncer

swung completely round and knocked the bail off as he went very unfortunate because he fell on his wicket and the ball actually went over the boundary for a six. And it's Gilmour running away from us now, approaching Empire Spencer, Bowles to Cadillian outside the last time he goes to the cut and he's caught, caught behind, and Marsh flings the ball up, and West Indies put in the bat and now 27 for two in this tenth over,

Carrie Choran, caught Marsh, Bill Gilmore for 12 and the crowd very sad. Gilmore comes in Bowles and Lloyd hits him. I.O. A.O. A middle kid. For four. A stroke of a man knocking a thistle top off with a walking stick. No trouble at all. And it takes Lloyd to 99. Lloyd 99 and 189 for 3.

An umpire bird having a wonderful time, signaling everything in the world, including stop to traffic coming on from behind. on from behind but he's left Gilmore in now and he comes in bowls and Lloyd hits him in the covers there's his hundred only half fielded out there on the cover boundary and the century is up and the whole ground seething with leaping West Indian delight It was worth this. It was worth the treatment it's getting. I thought I saw a policeman applauding.

Ha, what an innings. A hundred of 82 bowls in a hundred minutes, with two-sixes, twelve-fours, and even can-high out shone. Well, I would imagine that nobody in the Australian side wants to bow, so they'd probably drawn a number out their hat, and Walter just come up. Walters back to his mark.

He's medium-paced right arm. And he does get people out. He's giving the ball an optimistic shine on the seat of his pants. Comes up. Bowls from very near the other stumps. Outside the off-stump. And that's four runs. And up to the cheers again.

And this I suppose is what Tony Kosio called Caribbean Cricket Union really in the same. This game just sailing out ahead of Australia like an express train leaving a station. Well I think one can say at the present moment without any fear of contradiction, the game is basically over. West Indies will win very, very comfortably indeed. They are home and dry. 198 of 404 overs. Australia would have been pushed to get 220.

They will no more get 240 than go flyer time. That's Trevor Bailey, confidently predicting the match could only go one way. The one thing then that Australia could ill afford was slip-ups and a remarkable sequence of runouts was therefore unhelpful. And the captain Ian Chappell here talks through the chaos. Mr Lloyd, with his first ball,

he comes in to Ian Chappell, Captain to Captain, and Chappell is on the front foot. There's hesitation between running, running between the wicket's zone. He's out, brilliant bit of fielding. My Richards, a brilliant bit of fielding by Richards, runs, Turner out. The first one I only think it was out. I never thought it was out, and I've seen photos since Alan Turner. If you look at the photo, he's, you know, he's level with the stumps,

and the bales are not very far off. Because I remember looking back, he was a bit, I mean, there was an easy run there. but he was a bit slow out of the blocks so I look back to see how he was going and even just looking back I thought that's not out but it was given out as he and Chappell waiting as Roberts comes in both to him and he shuffles across outside the Oswald Plays it square on the offside

a misunderstanding between batsman and fielders and he's run out Greg Chappell is run out Richard threw the ball there and hit the stumps the off bail came off I mean if Greg didn't think there was a run he would have sent me back because you know he said afterwards he thought there was a run there. But Viv, I mean, Viv threw him down from side on,

and then I got run out. Stop by Richards, and the ball comes into line. Here's the third runout. Ian Chappell, runout for 62. Richards doing the fielding, stopping the ball with his left hand, and then ripping the returning to Clive Lloyd at the Volus Wiggin. Chappell beaten by Goodyard. And that's the third runout in the Australian leagues.

And they're 1-6-2 for 4 with Ian Chappell, the run-out for 62. Doug Walters is 29, not out, and a tragic blow for Australia. Every time Australia have got themselves into some sort of position where they look as though they're a counter-attack attacking with success and run-out as happened. That was the third run-out, and Ian Chappell himself, who has been involved in all three of them, found himself at the receiving end,

and once again it was Richard who threw that ball into Lloyd, and he never looked like making his ground. And it's really only a little bit of panic trying to keep the score moving along. Boy strides in, despite the pull muscle balls to Walker, who turns nicely off the pads. And he's out and out. A fantastic throw by Holder. That ball was turned off the pads. Walker was looking for a single.

Holder was standing about over 15 yards from backward square. And Walker just reacting with the shot, just about two yards out. And as he turned back, hold the picktap through, hit the middle stump, and another runout against an Australian batsman. Wockem must be very surprised indeed. The crowd which came on being urged to run off, they're almost gone off now. An Australian 9 for 233, just one wicket left.

274 for 9. Crowd standing round, ready to surge on. the policeman already standing there too another no ball and a run out like the other one off a no ball and we shall get another crowd coming on anyhow he has Holder coming up to Bill to Thompson

Bowles this one and Thompson has a wild hit at that one and Murray throws the he's outstumped he is out Murray threw the ball down and think and Australia have been beaten West Indies have won West Indies have won by 17 runs I think if my mathematics

are correct 17 runs 17 runs and they are the world champions of this international cricket. Iconic words to conclude a wonderful day of cricket and commentary as some of the voices you heard there, John Arlott, Brian Johnston, Trevor Bailey, Fred Truman and some very special memories indeed. In a moment, we'll get the thoughts of two figures who played a pivotal role that day.

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Plan your detour at go-turkia.com for a gripping adventure. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. We heard some memories of that brilliant 100 score by Sir Clive Lloyd, and I caught up with the West Indies captain from 1975 a few days ago at Lords to remember that magical day. But before that, here's how he sounded after that final 50 years ago talking to Christopher Martin Jenk. That was an exciting game, actually. I'm glad that all the people here enjoyed it. The Australians have put up a very good show, and I think that they've learned something from this competition.

Clive, you're obviously going to be tag the world champions. You are the world limited over as champions, but does it concern you unduly whether you are world champions? Well, I think that we're going to Australia at the end of the year, and if we do beat Australia, we can then be crowned as the real world champions one day and the five days. what do you see as the future of the World Cup do you think it must have a future after this well I would think so because it had been a tremendous really venture by the Prudential it has paid off handsomely for everyone

and I'm hoping that it would continue I'm sure that all the countries that took part have enjoyed this day and they've learned something from this competition and I hope that this is not the last World Cup a very youthful Clive Lloyd you looked at me if we didn't quite believe that was you speaking.

Yes. Voices changed. I know. And Christopher Martin Jenkins as well. Welcome back. I know you come here a lot. But it is a big year. It's a special year for 50 years on from that incredible game.

The first World Cup final. All got memories of where we were when it was all going on. And you were scoring runs and smacking a ball over the place. Viv Richards running people out, three runouts and so on. It was actually a terrific game of cricket. For a first World Cup final, actually, it was a great. great experience. Yeah, it was. And the point of the spectators, they're sitting on the grass around the, which they don't do now still, it was quite enthusiastic. We have the, the, the

spectators that really loved the game were there and they, they could get a seat and they could get a ticket, sort of thing. But it was a wonderful day and full house and they and we won this their favorites really of such Australia was a better side than we were Pakistan wasn't so bad England was quite a good side yes New Zealand was pretty good so we were the underdog sort of thing yeah and I think after we won that game against Pakistan we realized that we could do something in in this competition did it feel like it was sort of making history that the whole question of the tournament.

I mean, there was One Day Cricket played, of course. You'd be playing it for Lancashire, of course. But in terms of international one-day cricket, I did you feel it was groundbreaking? Yes, it was. Because, you know, when you went on tour, he didn't play too many

one-day games of such. So this was, as you said, ground-breaking. And I think people took to one-day cricket after, because it was a marvelous day. Sunny. all the cricket enthusiasts were there and we came up trumps

and we realized that there's never going to be another first no exactly and as far as tactics were concerned you were sort of making them up as you went along or did your did your county experience help in terms of field settings

when there were no circles of course were there in those days you could set the field as where you wanted to runs per over bowling change all the sorts of things that we just watch now as a matter of course in one day cricket. I mean, you hadn't done much of that. Well, I learned and I learned quickly because I had never captained anybody. Really?

I captained my school team. Wow. And here I was I, Captain Ron Kanai Lance Gibbs and Van von Holder and these guys. So I had to learn rather quickly. And I did because I had Jack Bond as my captain and he was pretty studious. He was good. And I learned a lot from that. And we learned as we got along because, as I said,

we had Lance and we had Rohan and Van Bern. We had Keith Boyce. We had guys who were, you know, there, they weren't that great, but they were there, they had the ability. And you had that help, but you still had to do things in your own, you know, batting out there when it was difficult and so on.

And I remembered that that game, when we needed 61 with a last pair with 14 overs. And I was there and thinking, well, this is it. Because if we'd lost that game, we would have been out of the competitions. And my, and whilst we were going, we were still about 12 overs ago. And my accountant, who was there from Birmingham, Gordon Andrews, came in and he said, Cliveham, you guys are 66 to 1. one. And I put some money on you. I said, Gordon, what were you drinking? He brought in a

crate of pale ale. Oh, not sure about that. And I drank one every two overs. Did you? Yeah. So when we won. I thought you'd be a rum man, Clive. I didn't know it'd be a pale ale, man. No, no, not a rum, my father was. My father was. And when I, I, when we won, I was quite inebriated. I was sort of I was out of it and we hugged one another we were jumping up and and then we realized that we can't lose this competition

because to come out of that last pair Andy Roberts. Andy Roberts with Derek Murray and at one stage halfway there and he was stranded and the guy didn't collect the ball problem. One of those so the Jack Lynch

Leach moment of heading home and he got home Oh, it was exciting. It was quite a great competition, I must say. As far as the West Indies was concerned, so you, obviously you were playing for Lancashire. I saw you play here. I mentioned it earlier, 1971. Yeah.

Jellet Cup final. Yes. Against Kent. You got 60-odd. And I thought, ooh, okay. I was 11 just to let you know in class. But, however, so you had played a fair amount. But as far as West Indies was concerned,

and here you, a youngish man from Guyana, was it easy for you to come in and kind of, of unite. We know it's difficult in the Caribbean, isn't it? All these different countries. Was it easy for you to unite a team at the start of this tournament that's going to go on and win the World Cup? It's never easy. That's the difficult thing about being captain in the West Indies. You have 14 islands, people have different background and culture. And you've got to bring them all together. So you have to get that trust for us. Is he going to play all guy in ease or, you know, that sort of thing? Absolutely. So you have to get the trust of the players.

And the first thing I did was put them together in the sense that I never had two Barbadians or two Trinidadians together. I had a Trinidadian and a Barbadian. Roaming together and so on. Yeah. And Tegrin with Jamaican. Yeah. So they learned about one another's culture and all of a sudden, you know, it was my roommate. And fortunately, sometimes it was a batter and a bowler.

Yeah. So if the bowler got wickets, he was sitting out. we need some runs in the room. So it was that sort of people probably think that there wasn't anything in it, but there was a lot in it. You do bond with your roommate, don't you? You have to be, you know, you've got to. And that's the great thing of being captain of the Westonies

and being captain of a different country. Australia is one country, England is one, Pakistan one, New Zealand, you know. So you have to work at it. And then you have to perform too. Because they'll be looking at you to see if you wait, you know, just depending on them. Yes. So you're easy for the first mistake that you make for whatever, whichever country would be, oh, well, there you go. That's, you know, so-and-so has led us on.

All that country has let us down or whatever. It'd be easy to have a bit of a blame culture in that situation. Yes, you have that problem and selection and so on. Yes. And you have to watch what you do in sense. People are thinking, oh, well, why is X not playing? But if you're winning, you get rid of that insularity. Yes.

And that is something that is a culture that we have. Yes. Because if you have 14 islands, you know, if you're now winning, why am you, he, he's not playing? Why is he not playing? Absolutely. It still goes on today, doesn't it? So the point is that winning gets rid of that insular behavior.

Let's look at this game. West Indies, 291 for 8. I remember Roy Frederick's hit wicket old lily. Yeah. He hooked him. He hook him into the tavern. Stuck him in the tavern. Went to sixth.

Yes. He's gone. Oh, yes. So he's gone. Gordon Greenwich, 13. Alvin Calut Charan, 12. So in fact, you're about, you're 50 for three when Greenwich is out.

So you team up with Ophela Ghanes. Rowan Can I? Yeah. Two rather contrasting innings, I suggest here, Clive. Rowan Can I, 55 from 105 balls. Clive Lloyd 102 from 85 balls 12 4s 2 6es

which in that era that's going some well yes because you're playing against some of the best ball inside in the world Lily Thompson Gilmore Walker

yeah you don't treat them scantly you really have such so it was I grew in confidence because I had Rowan there and he got a couple

of chance but he played played some marvelous shots and we saw the Australians rattled for the first time and we continued and we had a very good support and it was

tremendous. You were the sun hat on, floppy hat? Yes, I didn't think about a helmet at that stage. Did you not at all? Did you ever think when you're facing Dennis Lilly and Tomo it never

It never dawned on you. Because when you were young and you played in the West Indies, if you played our domestic cricket, Inter-Iland cricket, Barbados had Hall, Griffith, Sober's, Hallford, Prof. Edwards. Not bad. And, you know, you had Lester King, you had the Insenali and his spinners and thing from Trinidad, Lance Gibbs from Guyana.

You know, so you had a mixture, really so if you made a hundred in our shell shield you'd have had to bat well because the players the standard was quite high and we were our players came back from country cricket to play in our domestic cricket so the standards is all it's not happening now and i'm wondering that is something that we should be thinking of because if you england 300 not cricketers playing country cricket playing among themselves so the standard is always going to be high. Australia is the same

thing. So I think we need to go back to that situation. Is it fair to say that you were the first of a kind, isn't it? I mean, okay, I was a kid. I was young watching these games. But all I remember was you is you standing tall and smacking that ball. Huge follow-through.

You hit massive sixes. Which, well, Sober's obviously hit sixes, didn't he? But that that style of batting, where did Was that just a natural thing for you? Oh, yes, when I was young, I just probably like hit in the ball. Yeah. And I continued throughout.

Some people didn't like it. They said, oh, he's a slogger. But I said, but, you know, you can slog, but to get 200 or runs, you've got to be a damn good slogger. Yeah. You know what I mean? So the point. Do you play out that all the time?

Or were you quite selective over when you played that way? Well, the point is if you look at some of the innings I've played here, I mean for the West Indies, I bat it six, seven hours at times. So it's obvious that you had to conform to situations and you have people will come and tell you that, hey, watch it or help you along in that respect. But I never had a coach to say, well, this is what you do. Nobody coached me, I never had that, you know, so I learned from watching. you know and um i watched people i remember lankish and we had a coach there and i said coach am i

doing anything wrong he said um oh i wouldn't attempt to coach you so really beyond help clive i'm left on my own let's talk about viv's fielding i mean by the way he batted at six Richard's batting at six yeah blind I mean that's that's all he need isn't it Keith Boy's coming in after him but those runouts

I mean he got what the second ones Alan Turner that was the first one he ran out were they all from cover coming in the middle and yeah some extra cover I think he threw ball at me

so that was Ian Chappell who the two of you ran out together and then he did Greg Chappell as well I mean it was blistering feeling The Australians were always sort of not good round between the weekend but the fielding Viv's fielding again was ahead of its time

really wasn't it the first time really we had seen fielding like that yeah we well we had some good fields with Callie Choran we had Viv you know we had Gordon Greenwich and I was about the place

you were brilliant as well you might not move quite so swiftly these days Clive but you're the cat you're the panther won't you well I just love fielding It's not out about that. And I remember a fielding next to Basel Butcher. Right.

And if it is very close to him, he said, You're as Lloyd East, oh, I'm gone on. So I used to do extra work. What's interesting, listening to that interview at the start, when Christopher said to you about being world champions, and he said, well, we're going to Australia for the test series. And if we beat them, of course you didn't beat them. No, because we didn't have a DRS system.

Oh, okay. That's a very good answer, right? I thoroughly agree with it. But that was the start, though, wasn't it? That was the start of the West Indies Revolution. That was the fast bowlers. That was a Mikey holding right there and had a very bad experience.

And that was, although it didn't go well on the field, that was the spark, wasn't it, the start of that generation of West Indies dominance? Yeah, we got beaten 5'1, but the test match that we won, we won in three days. I could talk to you all afternoon. No problem. But again, there's an 11-year-old watching you from there.

Thank you for all that you've done, the 50 years. Enjoy the landmark Clive's lovely to see you. Thank you very much, sir. Thanks to give you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks to come here to see us. Yeah, love to to catch up with a proper hero of mine, Clive Lloyd. And we know of at least one person here at Heddingley today, who was at Lord's

50 years ago, and that was Dickie Bird. One of the umpires, and we've been sharing some memories. I remember it was probably the greatest game that I've studied. Was it? Oh, yeah. It is everything that much, everything from start

to finish and I always remember some some marvellous wonderful performance with bat and ball in that side. Clive Lloyd batting?

Clyde Lloyd's squad of magnificent century Yes. And... Viv Richards his runouts. Runouts. He'd just come into the side

he was a young lad and he had wrong what they call it out when he was early, all many batsmen chapels he did too yeah he got rid of them he got rid of chapel and the chapels had you know early and he really got he got rid of them do you remember what he was like because i remember i was only 15 then dicky to be honest however i remember all those people sitting on the boundary edge do you remember i mean that was how the crowds were in those days in those

days it's a good point uh good point that we sat the sat around the right around the boundary edges yes and at close of play they came onto the field in onto the field in their thousands and thousands. In fact, I used to wear my white caps. You did. And they used to be made by a Fermin Luton. Right. Lutton made my white cap.

Special. Special. Right. And I remember we came off, at the end of the 1975 Cup Cup final, we came off and they came onto the field in their thousands and thousands. I won't

somebody finished my white cap off my head it took it and I'm through the crowd no no yes so never saw it again

oh I was on a London bus some years after I don't know what I was doing on the London bus some years after and I saw this bus conduct

a white cap on it looked like one of mine I said, it shows me, man. Where did you get that white cap? He said, haven't you heard of Mr. Diggy Byrne? He said, I piece it off his head in the 1975 World Cup Final. No. Yes.

And there he was. There he was. Bus conductor. I never let on. I've never let on. Wow. I know we're one of my white house went. Well, that's extraordinary, Dick. Well, do you get another one?

They sent another one, didn't they? Oh, yes, I've been honest. But it had everything in that work cup final. How awesome, ever. What did you think of one-day cricket in those days? It was still very, very new, wasn't it? It was very new. You know, we used to play 60 overs.

I know. We played 60, well, you play it 60 overs. I do. You played 60 overs. Yes. We played 60 overs. Start it 11 o'clock. Or maybe 10.30, but it was certainly a long day, wasn't it?

120 overs. And I don't know whether you remember, but we dug in, sir. Yes. I was the chairman of the Trump Committee at Lord. He decided to make it 138 over the day. Really? Yeah. 138?

Yes. We're playing there at 10 o'clock at night. See, don't get half that these days. Dear me, Dickie, I don't know. I wonder if the tactics is on. And we're looking at test cricket here. Yeah. But we're watching Richard Pant playing like it's a one-day game.

It's amazing. That's right. Because he plays in the... IPL, yeah. RPL. And he just playing one day cricket. Yeah, yeah. But that 19th, that World Cup final,

75, it's the finest game, absolutely. There are so many great players in that. Yeah, Tomoe. Tomoe. Oh, Lily. And if you remember, Tom or Lily, put a few on at the end. They did.

They put a few on at the end. And I remember, remember that they, they hit a ball, the crowd run on the field. Yes. Keep going, Tomo, suddenly. Keep going. How do you start we're running? That's 14 we've ran.

14, that's as well, aren't we all right here? There's somebody come on and pick the ball up, so that was four. That's four runs. That's right. They did keep running, didn't they? They kept running. Yes. I thought, oh dear.

Did you step in? But they're such a great side. and I would have liked that side see that side of Clive Lloyd and this side. I would like to say the early Australian side of the

early 70s. Yeah. We forget what a great fielder Clive Lloyd was back in those days. Wasn't he good? Go on last one, Dickie. You're enjoying sitting here. You're still loving your cricket. You're still loving coming down. I go to a lot, you see, and I was so pleased with the MCC made me an ordinary life member. I'm an only life member of MCC. Well, quite right too, so you should be.

An only life member of Yorkshire. So I come here every match as well. So that's nice. It's been your life, Diggie, hasn't it? It's been my life. I've got to give my life, mate. Yeah. It's been your life.

I give my life, mate. Yeah. You know that. I didn't know life of the game. I never married because if I've missed anything in life, it's being married and having a youngster, a couple of youngsters. It would have made my life. But it wanted to be.

No, no. You gave me an LVW once, you know. Well, you were a good bowler. Oh. Oh, well, I don't, not because you're interviewing me. I must come and see you again, do you? Yeah, you must. You're bigging me up.

You played for England. I did, not very well. And you remember, you're always supposed to remember that. you've got the three layers on your chest and they'll never be able to take that away from you that's very true day they'll never take that away great honour a great man

a great bowler lovely to see you Dickie you enjoy your day thanks a lot mate wonderful to catch up with Dickie and he said some very generous words about my bowling well thanks for listening to this bonus

test match special podcast there's so much more for you to enjoy on BBC Sounds just make sure you're subscribed with push notifications turned on And don't forget this thrilling summer of cricket continues across the coming weeks of both England's men's and women's sides taking on India.

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