Test Match Special - The Ashes - injury latest and time on hands for fans and players

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

Eleanor Oldroyd is joined by Stephan Shemilt and Henry Moeran for news from Melbourne, including England injury updates. Plus, an interview with two of Shane Warne’s children.

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on and off the pitch. Your essential football podcast delivered every day. Listen to Football Daily on Spotify to Football Daily on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. on BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the Test Match special podcast.

I'm Eleanor Aldroyd. Well, this should have been the fourth day of the Boxing Day test, but of course that game is but a distant memory. During this episode, we'll be chatting about the fallout from the extraordinarily short match at the MCG and the criticism of the pitch. We'll find out what the teams have been up to. And we've got a special interview with two of Shane Warnes children

as they continue a campaign for regular health checks for cricket fans all over. Australia. TMS at the Ashes. Well, I'm sitting in the Melbourne sunshine on the south bank of the river. The Riviera is very close by. The Botanic Gardens are just over my shoulder. And if you turn to the left, you can catch a tram down to the beach.

Because this is the kind of thing that people have had to do to fill in time when they should have been sitting at the MCG with me at the BBC Sports Chief Cricket reporter, Stefan Shemult, and Test Match specials, Henry Moran. And so what have you guys been up to, Steph? Have you got a name, Ellie, for the period between Christmas and New Year? You know that period at home when you're not entirely sure what to do? Yeah, Twixtimus is what it's called. That's what we're in now, isn't it?

We're in a period where we should be watching a test match, but we're not. So no one's quite sure what to do with themselves. So you know that timing between Christmas and Twixthmas, when you're not sure what it is it, you eat turkey, you'd still watch films, you lounge around on the sofa, generally being a sloth. Well, that's what we're doing. Yep, yeah, well, I went to the Botanic Gardens for a lovely walk yesterday. lots of England fans were walking around there. Henry, what were you up to?

I think by Twixmans, that might have been a suggestion of what was being pulled out of the chocolate tin at that point. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? And the fact that we were sent a note from our friends at Cricket Australia with a list of things to do in Melbourne over the course of these few days. Yeah, it's extraordinary, isn't it? And, yeah, there's a lot of England fans still in their Barmy Army shirts wandering about, still with smiles on faces

because England have won the game. But there is a little bit of a sense. of, well, we didn't quite anticipate it was going to be like this. No, and it's easy to look at all the caveats around why the game was lost and won in two days and criticism of the pitch, and we'll talk of them sure about that. But actually, an England win after 15 years, Stefan, is worth marking, is worth celebrating. Well, it is. Do they want to expect England to get a win on this tour?

I did. After they went 3-0 down, what do you reckon? Maybe not so much then. No, and you think of everything that England have been. through in those 15 years, whitewashes, teams falling apart, Mitchell Johnson, COVID tours, Nusa, all those things to get to the point of finally winning a game in Australia. And I'm sure we'll have a discussion on, and many people have about, you know, the merits of a two-day victory and how much it means to win a dead rubber.

You'd have to be pretty hard-hearted not to have felt something when you saw Ben Stokes and route going over to applaud the Barmy Army on that second day and when they had a when they had a hug between them and I've heard both of them say since the end of that game the word finally finally we've won a game and it was looking like two genuine all-time greats of England cricket we're going to go through their careers without winning a test match in Australia let alone an ashes series in Australia and we I think it's pretty good money that We won't see Ben Stokes here in four years time. It's 50-50, I'd say, where the Joe Roots will be back.

It'll be nearly 39 by then. And so, yeah, for those two guys not to have at least a test win on their careers in Australia would have been, it would have felt like a really weird anomaly. So yeah, more than that, you know, more for anything for those two guys to get that win. And then also now we look ahead to Sydney going, well, is there a way that this race stays in place if England win in Sydney and things go well in the T20 World Cup you can almost see a sort of needle threading situation where that happens whereas a few days ago I think we were all thinking well everyone's out on their ear now not saying they are going to stay even if

they do win in Sydney but maybe there's a situation where this regime stays intact yeah I mean I suppose there is a difference isn't there between feeling that sense of relief and that sense that, you know, going all the way back to Andrew Strauss's captain in 2011, Ben Stokes has now won a single test match down under. That's all it is. So that relief, but then also not papering over the cracks, not addressing the issues that are there within this England team. And they still exist and they will continue to exist until some changes, reviews inevitably take place. But I think what is worth remembering in all of this is the scene of those thousands and thousands of England supporters in the sunshine and roaring England home and

England players able to take a deep breath and say, few, we've done it. And we've got those moments. We've got those memories. It has not gone the way we wanted it to this tour, but at least we have that. And it was rather summed up for me when we got quite late on eventually after all of the chaos, you sort of take a deep breath. I think we all, none of us were going to go to bed early. You and I popped out to a local microbrewery with Alex Hartley And there were two England fans who had a bucket with some very expensive champagne in it And they just said, well, at last, and we're treating ourselves Because we never thought that we'd see this.

And it's sometimes worth remembering that in amongst all of the conversations about the mistakes and the selection and the trips to Nusa, you can sometimes think, well, England have won a game in Australia, and that's to be applaud and enjoyed. I don't know if I know the answer to this, but I'm just going to throw it out there as a discussion point. Is the fact England of 1-1, does that make it more annoying what's gone on? Yes. For England fans, yes.

Yeah, do you think it does? Yes. Because they came into every single game, say, I fancy us this week, because we got so close to ask, if only this, if only this, if only this. And I think Ben Stokes, while he'll endlessly send interviews, oh, well, we're looking at the next game and what we can do to improve, He will, in the dead of night, be thinking about that moment

on day two at Perth when they had that opportunity. He'll be thinking about Jamie Smith getting out at Adelaide. He'll be thinking about the mistakes that were made in Brisbane, of which there were plenty. And he'll be thinking about the fact that the bowlers didn't pitch it up in the way that they should have done until they got to this match in Melbourne. There is no question Australia were potentially there for the taking. He will know that and he will deep down whatever is said. be very aware that this was a massive opportunity.

Well, we move on to Sydney in a couple of days' time, get there in time for New Year's Eve, which should be lively, I'm guessing, but with that test match starting on the 4th of Jan over here, 3rd of January, back at home. Stefan, a little bit of England team news. Yeah, Gus Atkinson is out of that test match. We sort of, I think we all knew, didn't we,

when he walked off on the second morning at the MCG holding his left hamstring, that that would probably be the last. time we see him in the series and at the time actually i was starting to think god this is this has got all the classics of an england wheels off day actually it started with an injury then we had a drop catch when when will jacks put down Travis head obviously it turned out differently to that but yeah left hamstring injury we don't know how long he's out for we don't know how when he's actually going home but we will find out more about the the extent of that injury when he does get home

Atkinson had two months out earlier on this year if remember he he injured his right hamstring when England played that one-off test match against Zimbabwe and May, you would expect that that means a call up for Matthew Potts, who has carried a lot of drinks around this tour, and he will be thinking, well, wow, what an opportunity to finally get. He hasn't played a test match for England since Hamilton against New Zealand at the back end of last year. He's played ten test matches, Matthew Potts.

His last seven have been against six different opponents. this would make it eight test matches with seven different opponents. And that tells you a little bit about how Staccato his career has been, made his debut in the first Stokes-McCullum test match against New Zealand at Lourdes in 2022, played four consecutive games there, and all three against New Zealand and one against India. But since then, just hasn't had a run in the team, arguably wouldn't have even been in this squad. Had Chris Wokes been fit or Jamie Overton not made him sense? unavailable for Red Bull cricket but finally gets his chance and I think actually

a lot have been asking or crying out for Matthew Potts to play as a man who could hit the top of off stump you know a bowler who pounds away and might be suited to these Australian conditions so yeah look Matthew Fisher is also in the squad but he was a late call up England are often very hierarchical in the way that they go about their selections so you'd think that Matthew Potts is in line to finally get a game in Sydney well despite the lack of cricket there was actually quite a lot going on down at the MCG and in the fan park, including Australian great Brett Lee

being inducted into the Australian Cricket Hall of Fame. And he's been talking a bit about fast bowlers and injuries. I mean, you look at the England squad, Archer Wood, now Atkinson, all part of the squad, playing part in this series now out. Cummins won't play anymore for Australia in this series. Hazelwood didn't start the series. But Brett Lee has been suggesting that injuries,

certainly from an England point of view, could be down. again to a lack of preparation. You can bowl as quick as you want, but if you don't buy the right line or length, you're going to get punished in Australia and I think we've seen that. I also think that, you know, there's been a lot of injuries on the England side that you could put down to a number of reasons. You know, workload or probably lack of workload coming into a test series.

I would have loved to see England's fast bowlers get a few more games underneath their belt because the other thing too, when you go from, you can bowl the net to you as much as you want, much as you want. But when you get out to a situation, when you're under pressure and you get a bowl consistently. In England, England bowlers, they didn't get much of a rest either. They had, what, 40 or overs from the batting point of view and they're back out of the sheds bowling again. So, yeah, I wasn't surprised to see a couple of the bowlers go down just through probably lack of workload. So maybe next time they come out, they'll look to think maybe get it a little bit earlier, get a bit more caves underneath their belt, a bit more work in the

well that was brett lee we've been talking about fast bowling stephen we haven't talked much about spin bowling have we it hardly played a part in this series at all um so showy abashir would you thought would you thought we'll go through this series without a game yeah don't take this as a knock on your bowling Ellie but i reckon you might have more chance of playing in sydney than showy boucher for a few reasons i think show busheer's um bowling is not in the place where England would want it. And Ellie's leg spinners leaf. His bowling's not in the place where England will want it to be.

They found a formation that's just won them a test match with Will Jack's batting at 8 and Mitterlead and he didn't bowl a ball a ball in the test. And he only batted once. He only batted once. Bradencast is England's new number three of course. I mean, I suppose from a spin point of view, the interesting one might be Todd Murphy. I would expect that he will get a game in Sydney. Just on Brett Lee's point about preparation for fastball.

bowlers. Brettley knows more about fast bowling than I do, by the way. He bowls faster than I do, just marginally. It's interesting, isn't it, about... So Pat Cummins can come in without bowling a ball since July. Looks magnificent. Some bowlers, they struggle without preparation. Chris Wokes was a bowler, always said that he needed loads of overs to feel fresh.

Mark Wood was another who said he feels best when he hasn't bowled the ball. So again, I'm not going back down this rabbit hole of preparation. But I do want to keep, I think, labouring that point of it is different for everyone. There's not a one-size-fits-all answer in all of this. And the fact that you mentioned Gus Atkinson's hamstring injuries, certain bowlers in the way that, you know, part of the joy of fast bowling is a different way that bowlers bowlers bowl. Different bowlers are susceptible to different injuries and it's been the way of it for all of time. Chris Wokes's ankles have been a problem. We know that

Joffar Archer's elbow has been a problem. So, you know, it's one of those where it's, there's no one-size-fits-all in terms of return dates and how bowlers get fit again. Well, I was watching all the various video clips that have come out of this last test match and there was an interesting one of some Australian fans. Just having a little bit of a go at Ben Duckett suggesting to him that he might fancy a beer and him then signalling to them and say, yes, bring it on and making the universal sign of, I'm going to have a little drink at this point. So England have been understandably celebrating, they've had their families over here as well,

they've been able to relax and enjoy that feeling of actually having won a match. As far as Australia, though, slightly different, Henry. Yeah, yesterday morning, I was down at the MCG, the nominal day three, ready to hear from the curator who was put up to speak to the media, said he was in a state of shock about the pitch, but also by 9am, the entire Australian squad were there as well. The fan park was absolutely heaving with spectators, and I thought actually it was a really impressive show,

of fan engagement, taking the time to reach out to spectators, England and Australia, that would have been really disappointed not to have got the chance to have seen a third day. Lots of those fans we spoke to. I know you spoke to on Five Live Breakfast about having made the journey with day three being the first one they were going to watch. And yeah, it's one of those things where you think there's a PR opportunity and cricket Australia have absolutely nailed it, because in the sunshine, up close and personal with Mitchell Stark

and Pat Cummins was there even the only person missing with Nathan Lyon he's got a 16 centimetre tear in his hamstring so perhaps not surprising that but you know it's one of those things where there was all sorts of rumours about could they stage another match you know to fill the time that was never going to happen

but the fact that fans were out there and got the chance to meet the players was a really good thing I thought could England have turned up as well do you think Steph? There's a hospital pass honestly Could England have turned up to greet fans outside the MCG on day three of the test match? Do I want to play a shot at this? No, I don't think they could.

Australia have trained today as well, actually, on day four. They've had optional training. And Andrew McDonald, actually, he held a press conference head coach, and he explained that optional training means the fast bowlers aren't there. It doesn't necessarily mean that you can or you can't turn up if you don't want to. Optional training means the full fast bowlers aren't there. but I also know that Travis Head wasn't there either because I've just seen him strolling through a food court

I did see Marnas Labashane facing some deliveries from Todd Murphy so that maybe tells you about two players who might be thinking about what they need to do in Sydney I've got no problem with what England have done over the past couple of days. Their families are here, it's Christmas

some of those players have been away since the end of October roughly no I don't think they needed to be there at all and actually it's quite funny about there's been certain discussions about whether or not there could have been a beer match on day three at the MCG

there was a tour in South Africa in the mid-90s. I can't remember, it was 94-95 or 95-96 when England lost in three days in Cape Town and the coach, Raylingworth agreed to play a game on the fourth or fifth day that the players had knew nothing about. It was announced at the post-match

presentation that they ended up playing Western Province in a one day where about 5,000 people. turned up. But for any of those discussions that might have taken place on day two about whether or not a game should have taken place at the MCG, I do know they never reached England. There was never a question that was put to them. So it was never really, it was a non-starter. The Dakar rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air

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Six Music's Indie Forever Disco with Beth Dissot. Listen now on BBC Sounds. Just search Indie Forever. That's where I'll be. TMS at the Ashes. Well, as we mentioned, all the Australian squad were there, with a couple of exceptions yesterday, including the Australian captain, standing captain, Steve Smith, who spoke to Henry. Well, Steve, we're going to be playing cricket today. What did you make of it all? Yeah, we are. It's a shame. It's a beautiful day. So, yeah, obviously a tricky wicket for batting, 36 wickets over just inside two days.

so yeah unfortunate to be on the wrong side of it as well but yeah um don't really know what else to make of it was it was tricky and yeah England obviously played really well yesterday I thought they bowled nicely and came out with a really good intent with the bat and got ahead of the game I suppose with that that early partnership so yeah credit to them for the way they went about it tricky too tricky oh I mean any game that's over in two days and 36 wickets no one gets 50 for the the game I don't think that's happened since like 1920 or something. So I'd say it's probably a little bit too much in the favour of the bowlers, but yeah, you still got to play what's in front of you, try and adapt, and England did that better than us. How frustrating is it, given the talk of 5-0 and how dominant Australia had been in this series? I mean, yeah, we always want to win, of course. But yeah, like I said, England played really well.

I thought we probably controlled the first day, and they controlled the second day and got the game there. but yeah you know if we get 50 or 60 more maybe it was a different game across both innings so yeah look it was tough wicket but yeah all you can do is play what's in front of you basball as a concept has had a bit of a hammering over the last few weeks have you guys been talking about how England have approached things and maybe a bit of extra determination maybe to show them that that their way isn't necessarily the best way I think it you know it's got its moments

where you know it can work I think yesterday the way they went about it early on with the bat was obviously beneficial for them on that wicket it was yeah it was one of those ones where your name was on it and when you're chasing a reasonably small target if you can break the back of it early you get in front of the game and they did that really well yesterday and probably softened our ball quite a bit I think you know when Zach was hitting him into the the billboards they were it was softening that ball and probably didn't offer quite as much for us so credit to them the way

they went about it. Have you enjoyed this series because it's been an unconventional test series, two matches that have finished in two days and I know you're somebody who likes to bat long? Yeah I mean we've had a few tricky wickets for batting there's no doubt about it and yeah unfortunately I missed the flat one in Adelaide but yeah we'll see what we'll see we'll see what we'll see. Hopefully a little bit flatter and chance to bat a bit more time but we'll wait and see. And just finally England fans have seen a lot of you play in Australia and England's.

They love watching you and they hate watching you. How much more do you reckon we'll expect to see? Is this your final ashes in Australia? In Australia? Probably. I'm not sure I'm going to be around in four years. Whether I go to England or not, I'm not sure. We'll wait and see. Still got to keep performing.

But yeah, we'll wait and see what happens. Well, that was Steve Smith speaking to Henry. I think all of us are kind of starting to throw ahead already to the next ashes in England in 18 months' time and then beyond that in four years' time back down in Australia. interesting to hear Steve Smith hinting to you, Henry, that it could be his final Ashes series in Australia. Yeah, I think probably more than hinting the way he was talking about it and chatting to our friends at the ABC and they said, yeah, we actually had heard him say that.

So maybe we hadn't even countenance to prospect that this absolute sort of bastion of Australian cricket for the last decade would potentially be playing his last Ashes test in Australia next week. I think the other name is Usman Kowager and Steph I know that Australia's team news plenty to dissect and discuss there as well Yeah well I think on Steve Smith It might be his last dashes test full stop He's not committed to tour in England in 18 months time

And that is pretty close to be fair When we heard Andrew McDonald speak earlier on He said that their preparation There is their preparation coming up again He said that they tend to prepare for a tour about 12 months out. They will turn their attention to that in about six months' time.

And that 2027 year for Australia is big. There is a World Test Championship final in England. They've got the ashes in England, trying to win the ashes in England for the first time since 2001. So that'll be 26 years by the time they get there. And then they defend the World Cup in South Africa. I think starting this August, or certainly the UK autumn,

I think Australia have got 16 test matches in the space of a year. So a big old time. coming up for them. Steve Smith, as previous said, he doesn't know if he's going to be on that Ashes tour in 2027. So it could be his last Ashes test match full stop, and could be last test match of a career for Usman Kowager. I cannot believe that we've got through an entire series basically speculating about the future of Usman Kowardy before every game that we've played. He was on the agenda in Perth, didn't play in Brisbane, got a late call up in Adelaide, managed to retain his place in Melbourne. And here we are now wondering whether or not

this is going to be the end of his career. home or what was his home city for a very long period of time. MacDonald wasn't drawn on that. He said, look, we haven't really had a conversation about it. But whether or not, I don't know, remember the last time when David Warner had his big farewell tour that culminated at the SCG and McDonnell said we've sort of learned from that, that sort of protracted farewell all around Australia. So I don't know if Australia were going to get quite into that.

But we'll wait and see that'll be something that dominates the conversation from an Australia point of view in the run-up to next weekend. I think looking ahead as well from an England point of view a lot of the younger players on this tour you know Jamie Smith Harry Brooke even the players that haven't played down under

before Jacob Bethel obviously they'll have learnt so much from this victory won't they and they will have that muscle memory going forward to future Ashes test matches that they know what it feels like to beat Australia I'll go back to when I was driving

from Nusa to Brisbane Airport to fly to Adelaide I was listening to the ABC Cooper Connolly was talking on the ABC having just played for Australia A against the England Lions and Australia A hammered the England Lions out of sight. One thing Cooper Connolly said was the coach Tim Payne said to us

this is the sixth test of the Ashes and you guys go out and make sure those young England players, Asa Tribe, James Rue Bethel was playing at the time do not have good memories of playing in Australia If they're going to tour here in four years' time, don't let them know that they've got a victory over you,

let them know that playing here is hard, send them home with this defeat ringing in their ears. Flip side of that now, Josh Tong, Harry Brook, Jamie Smith, they've all got the experience of winning a test match in Australia. Jacob Bethel is one Ashes win from one. I think Olly Pope tried eight times. Didn't get a win. Now Jacob Bethel's won from one.

So Michael Vaughn's gone on record in the past to say that the end of the 0203 series, when England won in Sydney to avoid a 5-0 clean sweep, that set him on the path for victory in 2005. Now, I'm not going to make any sort of statements that these players that have got a win in Melbourne might now be on the path to winning in 18-month-time or even back here in four years, but does no harm, does it?

So, two-day test matches. I know, Steph, you've written down your thoughts on the BBC Sport websites, and there are a few comments below the line, needless to say. But two-day test matches, Henry, are we a fan or we're not a fan? It's a very interesting question this, because would you rather a two-day test match where loads happens, or the Alistair Cook double-hundred test in 2017? Well, he said it's all his fault, actually, that they prepared the pitch.

So you didn't get an Alistaircourt ball fest or similar. He also says, when anybody says, oh, you scored 200 on the flattest pitch, imagine me. He said, yeah, but I did score those runs, and you didn't. And so it's an interesting one, isn't it? And I think, ideally, as the curator said to us yesterday morning, ideally you want a game to go three or four, ideally four or five days, and you want that narrative to build. But test cricket is a varied and fascinating thing, endlessly fascinating.

You just don't want repetition, and you don't want to turn up knowing what's going to happen. And in the same way as you didn't want in the 1960s to know every single game was probably going to be a draw, you don't want to reach the stage in the 2020s and 2030s where you're thinking, thinking, well, day three is not worth buying a ticket for. So variety is, Ellie, the spice of life. It's like a box of Christmas chocolates, dare I say it. Well, while we only had two days of the Melbourne test, there was a special moment each afternoon at 350,

when the 90 plus thousand crowd joined in to tip bear hats in memory of Australia cap number 350, the legendary Shane worn. The record-breaking leg spinner sadly passed away in 2022, at the age of only 52. In his name, the Shane Worn legacy has been founded to honour his life with free cardio health checks being provided at the MCG

and there's also now a permanent Shane Worn exhibition in the museum at the ground. Well, Jonathan Agnew has been speaking to two of Shane's children, Brooke and Jackson. Always coming to the MCG, it's always really special. Obviously Christmas isn't the same anymore without Dad but always being able to come here the day after and the day after that is always full of smiles.

It's full of happiness. We have so many memories here at the MCG. And Dad has so many iconic moments here. Obviously, he's got the 700th. He's got the Hattrick. He's got the calming down the crowd. He's now got the Shane One stand. He's got his statue.

He's got the exhibition downstairs. And now he's got the activation with all the health checks. So, I mean, always coming here feels like our second home. And I know there's so many people in the public that still want to remember Dad as well. And me and my sister Brooke have been sitting with the Barmi Army yesterday and today. and they've been awesome. I've met so many people and they've got their own unique Shane Warned story

so it's so nice to know that there's so many people out there that still miss and want to remember Dad. And they're English people too, Brooke. I mean, he's an Australian cricket, for goodness sake. He used to beat us for fun and yet I can tell you, I mean, for my dizzies with Shane

and in theatres and so on when we play films of his and show his picture. There's an extraordinary affection for your dad from English cricket lovers. There is, and it's so special. And as you're saying that now, they're just actually doing a little tribute to Dad on the screen, which is some beautiful pictures, which is awesome.

It's just, you know, as we're talking about it, there he is on the screen. So it's incredible. Listening to the Bar Miami sing their beautiful song yesterday, it's so positive, so Dad would have been really happy to hear that. Was it beautiful, or was it kind of? It was kind of great. Beautiful, probably the wrong word.

The statue, I mean, even that, you know, the statue outside, all these memories of him. Do you come down when there isn't a match on them? I mean, do you feel that kind of he's sort of here, if you like, or not? I mean, is that just kind of put away? Do you only come down for matches? No, we come here to watch the footy as well, the AFL. And, you know, it's pretty cool cheering on our team

and looking at Dad's Stand and always walking past to come in and seeing his statue out the front. Now the exhibition's here as well, it's just so special. So we don't get down here too much, but we do with the footy and all of that. And even when there is an AFL or cricket on, Like, even if it's just a random Tuesday afternoon, I'll still get people sending me selfies and they've just gotten a tour of the MCG

with the Shane Warren stand in the back, or they've seen Dad's hologram downstairs. Or even what I find the funniest is when people, you know, late at 9 or early in the morning, they're putting up, you know, a VB or a pizza, just on his statue and they're sending me a selfie going, I heard your dad was hungry, here's a piece of margarita. And it's just like that stuff is what makes us smile

because, you know, that's what Dad would have wanted as well. Was he really like that at home? I mean, all these stories about Shane, his pizzas and his VPs or whatever. I mean, was life at home really like that? Yeah, it was. Christmas Day, pizza? Christmas Day, lasagna, garlic bread, bread rolls.

Yeah. All that sort of stuff. And I think that's why so many people, you know, especially since his past, which I'm just glad with, are seeing who he actually was. And even though media sometimes portrayed him and that he wasn't the same version as what we knew, but especially after the State Memorial,

a lot more people got to see Dad. And what I mean, Dad, is they saw the first. food he liked to eat. He saw he just loved hanging out with his mates, how much he wanted to help people, how much he was always giving back? How could he, you know, make people smile? That's what Dad was known for. And I'm so glad lots more people, especially in the public eye, when they're talking about Dad, have all got those same things in common. Yeah, because it must have been half for him. I mean, he really was in the media spotlight, wasn't he? I mean, okay, I want that media side. So you knew, especially the Australian media. I mean, he was, he was right,

isn't it, wasn't it? And that can't have been easy for you as a family. Yeah, and to be honest, not to try and, you know, pump him up or anything, but I don't think there's actually been an Australian sportsman, maybe apart from Don Bradman 100 years ago, but genuinely, in my lifetime I've ever seen, that was under the public eye for every single thing

he did, and that was for 30 years in a row. Like me and Brooke, not to try and sound negative or complain, but we had paparazzi outside of our house, way to chop us off from school. And that wasn't just in Australia, but that was in England as well. Even in places like America and Spain, where they don't even play cricket, but they're still following Dad.

See, why is that? Because I think Dad, he's not, he's a rock star, I like to think as well, because, you know, everything he did was just, was just so fantastic and, you know, he was such an amazing person and, you know, the people he got to meet throughout his life, you know, not the regular sort of some sportsman does. And I just think that's, you know, they criticised him so much, but he was always so tough. And, you know, he always came out on the other end, so much stronger and, yeah. Yeah.

Did you talk cricket much with him? No, to be honest, the only times me and Dad would ever talk cricket would be when I come home late at night and he'd be in bed watching the cricket at 2am, 3 a.m. It would be Indian-Vers. Yeah, it'd be just two random countries and I'd be like, what's going on? And he was such a good reader of any sport. Like, I actually used to love watching him play golf and watch golf because he would just have such a good sporting mind. He could read the players so well.

That's good knowledge. Yeah, it's just such good knowledge, such good game awareness. He just was such a good read of players. but yeah, that's the stuff I probably miss the most. And the obvious question is, have you tried to play cricket? I mean, how can you actually play cricket in Australia with a surname like Worn? Yeah, no, I think I'd probably play 10 games in my entire life. But what did you do a couple days ago?

Yeah, well, when I was about 15 years old, in my second game, I actually took a hat trick. Did you? I said I was bowling, leg spin, but it was more like moon bowls, but a few... Oh, go on, then. That's pretty good. It was pretty good, but a few days ago I actually hosted a game Australia. reverse England. On the England side, it was members of the Barmy Army, and on the Australian side, it was Dad's friends that had

played either AFL and cricket, and we played down at East Sandringham, which was his junior cricket club, which has now been renamed the Shane War Oval. We got an unbelievable turnout, and the community was so happy, the club was so happy, and to just see how many people so close to Christmas got together was amazing.

You did awesome, Jacko. You did great. Oh, it's a hard trick. Come on. How were they come on? How'd you get them out? Well, I said I was bowling leg spin, and it was actually moonballs which is just the slowest ball of all time but I think when the batsman figured out who I was they would either try and just hit it for six and miss then get stumped or they'd hit

it straight up and get caught so that that's my only trophy I ever got from school but he never tried to teach you I mean that was the hardest job what he did I think why he also had so much admiration clearly was because he has to be the nearest to perfecting the toughest

the most difficult thing in cricket to do yeah no growing up he was never somebody that put a cricket ball in my hand or said yep Jackson, it's 5.30, let's go down to the nets. He was never, ever like that. He just wanted me to be happy. And me being happy was building Lego or playing AFL or playing tennis or swimming. Like, it doesn't matter what it was. Just him seeing a smile on my face was his number one priority.

And so, yeah, growing up cricket was never something that I felt pressure from. It was more the negative self-talk, which was in my head, which probably wasn't even real. And that was just being a school picking up a cricket ball with me, thinking, oh, what are they going to think? Do they want me to do this? I want me to do that. And it probably was never even true. So I probably spoke myself, I probably talked to myself out of playing cricket, but, you know, I'm just, I'm just in a very good spot. I love talking about dad in places like this and on days like this, so, yeah.

I think you probably all remember where we were when it happened, because it was actually the day after Rod Marsh, and that was a day that hit cricket hard, and then comes news of your dad. That must have been just an appalling day for all of you. Were you all together with the family? Yeah, we're all together, and to be honest, it still doesn't even really feel real. like if you told me he's about to walk through the Combox, I believe you. It still doesn't feel real that it's been nearly four years and it still doesn't feel real that, you know, two hours ago I was in Dad's exhibition

were talking to people about his memorabilia. So I think we still all feel him so much and every single day that, yeah, maybe in five years it will hit me or in two years or in two days. I don't know, but for how I'm feeling now is happy. I love talking about Dad. I love talking about everything he did. So, yeah.

Yeah, very proud. So the memorabilia, what's he got in there? Brooke, what's it? There's so many iconic moments in there. You've got the 700th wicket. Was he a hoarder? Did he collect lots of things? And I get that from him as well.

He kept so much stuff. But there's amazing. There's a 600th ball. There's a 700th ball. The last test ball. The getting shoe. The getting stump. The calming shoe.

Oh, well, Dad's bowling shoe. So the shoes that he was wearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I refer it to us the getting shoe. Yeah. He kept everything. Like what I mean everything? everything.

Does that surprise you? Well, I don't know. Maybe he had a vision that one day he had an idea of building his own museum or I don't know, I never got to talk to him about it, but I do know what he would have wanted to do with his memorabilia is share it with the world, make sure everybody forever can see it. And for us to fast for three and a half years after his past, for it to end up in the MCG, which Dad used to call his backyard or his office. Yeah, it's a bit of a pinch-me moment, fairy tale moment, but it just adds another, you know,

it just adds another layer to his past. legacy. There must have been so much more to him because it's an outsider guy. I work with him a bit but you know he just seems like all the guys was rocked up very easy going blow up. I wouldn't necessarily have him as being keeping stuff and being

he was very organized very organized and not necessarily keeping it to have it on display he just sort of he'd come back and say oh this is this and this is that and it would all be in plastic tubs and you know at the time it probably for example the Gatting Ball you know wasn't probably known as the ball of the century so he just sort of you know had this ball and then all of a sudden after all the years

it sort of you know had this what happened was incredible so you know at the time when dad's done all these iconic things for him to keep it is awesome so always thinking he was yeah yeah how often do you watch the gatting ball oh i've seen it so many times oh i at least watch it a few times a day it just pops up on social media i don't have it in my phone and wake up and go all right it's seven o'clock i must watch it but i just somehow see it in an edit in a replay but i always see it the most, especially during this Boxing Day test and during the Ashes, because it is one of those iconic moments that you just

yeah, you couldn't make up. I don't think that was the most iconic, I mean, without thinking too much about it, but that, I mean, it was the first ball of he bowled, it was a loosener. Yep, ever, and it was... What it did, the fizz. And it was only, because I spoke to Mike Gatting earlier, he said, I think there was one or two over it's left before lunch, so all they said he

wanted to do, is like, perfect, I just have to stay in, this is great for me because I'll see how he bounces, what his variations are, the speed, the revs, all that. This is great for me, just don't get out, and then first ball bang. It was, that was, if ever anybody announced themselves, that was it. So what about the fitness stuff here then? The cardio health, I think one or two of our members, our colleagues have gone and done that.

What's the idea behind that? Yeah, so the idea behind it is we just wanted to make sure we could try and create as much awareness for heart health as possible. Right, because basically, this is what your dad did. Exactly, yeah. And what these stations check for, it's just your BMI. your diabetes risk and it's just a basic health screening so if something does flag in the red the nurses on standby

have the power to take you to doctors and hospitals and get further testing but if we can just encourage as many people to look after the hardest possible I think that's a bonus because so many people after Dad passed when they got their hearts checked and blood tests and all that sort of stuff and when asked why are you doing this they all said well it's because Shane Warren passed away so we knew we were onto something there and we can't take credit for it was Dad's team that came up with the idea

but yeah to achieve the 400,000 total checks in just two years is unhurt of. That is extraordinary. And it is literally a machine isn't it? I haven't dug on. It's a machine and it's done in under five minutes. It's free. It's not invasive. You can keep your clothes on. Don't need any of your blood and you get your results pretty much instantly. Yeah. And what would

he think of this, do you think? I mean, again, he struck me as with someone who had his, he had his burgers and his, and his, that's a lifestyle. It's pretty crazy to think that because of Dad's passing now all of these people have been saved and it's just

such a crazy, it's a crazy thing to think and it's just amazing that he's, you know, I think people were calling it the halo effect. And, you know, the fact that dad is helping people and potentially even saving their lives is pretty amazing. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, it's brilliant to meet you too. It really is. It's, you know, you've always had a really tough time. I remember watching the, you know, the service and everything else going on here. Do you have members of that still? But you, how old are you then? Yeah, that was three years ago now. We were, I was 22, book was 24. Or 24, yeah. And summer was 20. But, yeah, I mean, coming out here and with all of his iconic moments,

which is the, you know, Hattrick 700th wicket, Shane Worn Stan, Shane Worn Statue, and there's so many others calming down the crowd. But then to also add another layer to his legacy, which was the State Memorial, was I think, the perfect send-off because it wasn't too big, it wasn't too small. Everybody that spoke there spoke so, so positively of Dad. They all had the same things in common,

how much Dad wanted to help them, and all of that. So it was just nice to hear from all different people from all different walks of life. how much Dad had helped them and how much they loved Dad. Yeah, yeah. And how much he's going to be missed. Did it surprise you? It didn't surprise us because Dad always spoke about the types of friends he had

and how much they helped him and he loved them. But he was always a very humble guy. And I know when I was watching him, I was just really happy to see Hugh Jackman on the screen because he's one of my favourite. So when I saw Hugh Jackman speak about that, I was like, oh, how good that? Yeah, that's awesome. Right, well, good luck with Louise. It's been really lovely to have met you.

Thank you. I didn't know you're coming, Brooke. So there you go. It's been a really pleasant, pleasant surprise. You just popped in. Hello. Thank you for having us. I did commentate on the ball of the century,

but I never saw it because I was at the wrong end. Yes. So I'm trying to do radio. If you ever hear the radio commentary? Yeah. I didn't quite, because I couldn't see the ball. Yeah. Or lucky we can go back and watch it and listen to it.

Yes. There you go. Well, Henry, Stefan, you both went and had your health checked while we were at the ground. Was it a positive or a negative experience? It was a very positive experience because it made you consider things about your health. And also there was just a bit of a sense of, you know, everyone's getting involved in this. This is a good thing to do. So you had your blood pressure checked, your heightened weight BMI.

There was even these electrodes you'd gripped in it and measure your sort of body composition, that sort of thing. And I imagine blood pressure might have been a little bit higher at certain points of that second day than others. But it was, yeah, it was a very positive experience. And I should also point out that these machines that measure these things are also a load of pharmacies across Australia as well. So it's not just the opportunity to get it done at the MCG. But it was, yeah, we all had a go at it. And it was all really interesting comparing scores and, you know, how old are your heart? What's your official heart age according to the machine?

And look, if nothing else, it's a reminder of a wonderful cricketer and a wonderful life cut short. and if his legacy or part of his legacy is ensuring that people get this opportunity to have a little bit of an MOT then that can only be a really good thing. Henry's right about blood pressure I think I did mine at the end of the first day after 20 wickets had fallen

and I'd just been rushed down to the basement to be in a press conference I don't think I was in a great state. The thing I'll take away from that test match is the hat tip at 350 and particularly on the second day when it looked like England were going to win the game You know that corner of the Barmy Army?

It seemed to grow, didn't it, across the day? So Bay 13, it wasn't just Bay 13 by the end of it. It stretched all along the bottom tier of one half of the ground from maybe, I don't know, deep square leg to long on. Thousands and thousands of England fans tipping their hats. It was lovely. And if you think of the last day of the 2005 ashes at the Oval, Shane Warren, the England fans singing to him,

we wish you were English and he bowed to them, you know, as a shine of mutual respect from the last time that he played test cricket in England and now the Barmy Army fans tipping their hats at the G, you know, the ground where Warnie made such magical moments and you can't go anywhere around the MCG without seeing Shane Warn. I think that might be at the end of this series, the image to me that lives longest in the memory. Stefan, Henry, thank you very much indeed. So 3-1 going to Sydney at the final test starts the evening of the 3rd of January.

10.55pm is when Test Match Special goes on air. But look out for a special range of podcasts this week, including the Ashes Top 10, No Balls and the prestigious TMS end-of-year awards. From the South Bank of Melbourne, as another tram heads down towards the beach. Goodbye for now. TMS at the Ashes This winter Cricket's oldest rivalry is reignited

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