Test Match Special - The Ashes: Smith grinds down England as the SCG turns pink

Episode Date: January 6, 2026

We hear from record breaking Steve Smith who became the second highest scorer in Ashes history and England’s Jacob Bethell who took his first Ashes wicket. Jonathan Agnew and Phil Tufnell join Simon Mann to review a tricky day for England and Eleanor Oldroyd speaks to Glenn McGrath and Emma Agnew about Jane McGrath day.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. from round the wicket. Bowles is patented that very fine. Coming down towards the boundary. He'll walk three here. I think he'll get three.

Listen to the crowd as Smith taps his path at his ground. Webster comes rushing back into the danger and he makes his ground. And Steve Smith records his 37th, 10th century on his home ground. And receives a standing ovation. So close of the third day, Australia in control. of this test match at the SCG. They're 518 for 7. Really a punishing lead of 134.

With power to add, especially with Steve Smith still there. He's got another test match 100 at close of play. He's on 129 and well supported by Bo Webster as well. He's 42 not out. Lots of partnerships from Australia today. England worked hard, but they were outplay. Travis Head making 163 before he was LBW to Jacob Bethel. Just a hint of England getting back into the match

when they had Kerry caught at leg slip by Bethel off tongue for 16. It was 366 for 6. But the depth of Australia's batting has paid dividends for them. Cameron Green making 37 before he was caught in the deep. But then Webster came in and just aided Steve Smith. So Australia back for more on the fourth day with the prospect of a lead in excess of 150, perhaps even 200 as well,

and then it does get problematic for England. Jonathan Agnew is here, Phil Tufnal is here, Glenn McGrath is here. Let's start with you, Glenn, on your pink day when the Sydney Cricket Ground was turned pink in memory of Jane McGrath and the Jane McGrae Foundation. We'll talk about that later in the podcast.

Let's focus on the cricket. And Steve Smith, I felt watching him earlier. He just looked so determined today. He just looked like a man who was destined from very early on to score 100 today. Yeah, without a doubt. He went out there. He looked hungry. He didn't look challenged out there.

He was focused. And he batted at a good tempo. He put the bad balls away. He looked to keep the score ticking over. It was quite reminiscent of Joe Root when he scored his 100 in the first innings. And you look at those two guys. see the hunger for runs and they're not going to throw their wicked away and then you look at someone like Harry Brooke that doesn't seem to have the same hunger as those two and that's why

they both got hundreds in this the first inning so yeah yeah credit to to Steve Smith when he's out there and he's switched on and he's focused he's on a pitch that yeah is pretty tough for the bowlers he's a hard man a bowl too and there's just something about the way tough as that Australia approached test match cricket. They've taught England a lesson today again? Absolutely. I think they've taught them a lesson all this year. It's just the way they approach it,

the way they think about it. You know, bowling, line and length, top of off-stump, don't leave there. You know, simple as that. Batting, if you get in, go big. 60s and 70s aren't going to win your test matches. Just a better mindset about the game for me. the field every catch has been taken

you know we've been sloppy in the field just tougher just tougher and understand well you said we said it earlier we've been out test matched virtually every day of this series and it's not necessarily skill or talent

it's the way you go about it I think discipline isn't it discipline so I think that's the word you look at the batting is a sort of relentless discipline about Australia's approach to batting that England don't have Apart from Joe Root, no one else really. I mean, Stokes, when he gets his head down, can do.

He got a good ball. I'll have a go to him in this test match in particular. But there's just no discipline to the rest of it. And you just hope that they've sat down and watched again the way to play, the way to play test cricket. And that's so simple as that, isn't it? You're right about Smith. I just felt particularly his route got 100 yesterday.

He was going to get one today because they're hungry. And they have this appetite for scoring runs, whereas England seems to get in. and then play a bit of a flash Harry and get out. But that's not going to win your test matches. And it is surprising because the mentality of the bat's one that I used to play with and you two toughers and obviously Glenn as well is that these people, they get in, they don't give it away. Hate us.

Hate the bowlers. Yeah, because you might get a good ball next innings. You know, you're back in the pavilion for naught or 10 or whatever. You get in on a decent pitch, you fill your boots and you really make the bowlers work hard because it might not be there next time. So that's a discipline that England simply don't have. Apart from Joe Root, they don't have it. It's too loose.

You can't play test match cricket loosely, if that's right, if you know what I mean. You know, that's all three disciplines, all the disciplines. You've got to be tight. You've got to be hardened. And you've got to know what's in front. And England have just been a little bit slapdash. Let's look at England's attack tougher. So four main baseball is the occasional spin of Bethel and Jacks.

What did you make of that? I think actually Bethel bowl quite nicely. He looks like he can draw the batsman forward. That's a very sort of nice skill to have as a spin bowler. And he hardly bowls. He is a real part-timer. But I saw something there that could be worked with with Jacob Bethel because he just has that natural sort of ball

that plops in a round off stump or just outside. And he can just sort of, you know, the batsman's first initial thought is to perhaps press forward. You know, perhaps with a jacks when he's a bit tall. the batsman's first thought is just to rock back and cut and knock him around the corner or if it's all pull him away you know but he has that sort of

you know it's been a dip and a bit of flight I thought he's bold well today he got his first wicket you know which is fantastic something he'll remember and yeah so he did all right I thought he went well what do you think about Glenn about the fact

in this game that there's been so little spin and both sides have just focused on their their pace bowlers. Bethel was steady today. Jacks, we didn't see bowl as much, actually. We think of Will Jacks as being England's main spin in this game.

But Bethel bought a heck of a lot more overs, mainly because the right handers were out there. What's your feeling, I mean, as a former pace bowler, seeing so little, generally, so little spin in this game. Yeah, a little disappointing to be honest. I heard Steve Smith say at the toss, you know, we're forced our hand. The pitchers aren't going to turn.

We can't go in with the spinner. But what I saw today, you know, it's day three. I thought there was enough in there. There's a bit of turn, the footmarks coming around the wicket. You know, I think it's going to take a bit of turn. So, you know, day two and, sorry, four and five, you know, I saw enough from Bethel to see that, you know, you can challenge a batsman out there.

So, yeah, a little bit disappointing in that respect. And, you know, you're looking at the rest of the bowling. Yeah, it's just, you look at Stokes. Stokes can bowl maiden overs, but it's like no one. else can or no one else is prepared to or whether they can execute or the mindset is they don't want to they bowl you know it's hard to see them bowling two or three balls in the same spot which is what test match bowling is bowling to a field bowling to a plan executing it if you can't execute plan a there's no use going to play in b or c but yeah it's at test match

bowling bowling maidens still challenging the batsman but building pressure there's to be honest there's been no pressure put on the batsmen in all the team really with creating maidens so I don't know whether it's mindset whether it's execution

probably a bit of both well have you made of Matthew Potts now when you played at Brisbane you know way back when at the start of your career you had a nought for a hundred a day didn't do something like that and he's gone nought for a hundred and plenty actually so far in this match

did you have sympathy for that or do you look at him and think actually possibly not quite of the standard required? Yeah, no, I was doing something differently to why I got picked in the first place. Everyone says you've got a consistent out-swinger, so I started bowling outies and swinging the ball

and had no control and, yeah, finished with the figures of none for a hundred odd in the match, and that was it. So went back to why I got picked in the first place. Yeah, Potts has been a little bit sort of said. He should have been in the series earlier, but a couple of times there it just looked like he just completely lost his action

it just wasn't coming out of the hand well he was falling away the shoulder was getting out in front and it just looked like he was struggling to have that rhythm or just the ball coming out of the hand well so yeah whether that's because he hasn't bowled for a while or because trying to get something out of that pitch

there was nothing there for him figures of 25 overs 141 runs no wickets he probably pulled it back a bit because he was going along at 8th, wasn't he, at one stage or more? So, yeah, so it's a tough day for him, but, yeah, he did struggle out there today. Jonathan, I mean, it was a hard day. I mean, could you say fair play to them?

They did stick at it, and they were sort of, I mean, I suppose you could say it's the minimum requirement, you know, chasing the ball to the boundary towards the end of the day's play, two field is going after it, you know, bowlers who just, you know, did keep on going. but when you come up against someone like Smith on a decent pitch I mean it is a hard job and they had a poor first session and they did rather pull it back I thought I mean the first session at lunch I really worried I thought you know the wheels are off here

and they're spinning off towards the Royal Sydney Golf Club or wherever it may be you know it just it just felt like heads had dropped completely there was a terrible mess of Willjacks on the boundary but anyone can drop a catch but I think the worst thing was that England just really, really needed it. They really needed to strike. And down it went. And, I mean, you catch that nine times out of ten.

That was just the worst start. They lost their reviews, of course. They were burned off. The last one burned off on the night watchman, which all seemed a bit ridiculous. And even that one was kind of agony really for them, because he was right, wasn't he? Because it was boot first rather than bat.

Yeah. He just overlooked the fact that it was outside of the line. The Southland of the off-stombed. Yeah, I know. It was disappointing on Stokes' face. And there are other things, you know, like yesterday, before England started bowling, we're chatting way up here, say, right, new ball, tongue, Stokes, please. They're way and above the two better-seen bowlers on offer here.

They're skillful, they bowl well. No, of course, you had Carson Potts. He bowls his boots off. He goes in there. He's taking a lot of wickets, but he's expensive. Potts hasn't played for weeks. so they give them the new ball and Australia get away

to a decent flying sort of start, don't they? Trying to get control back. Today, first thing, who opens the bowling? Stokes and tongue. It's as if, I don't know.

I don't know how you read what's going on in that dressing room at the moment. It's really odd. It's almost as if because they sort of

know that people are saying it should be Stokes and tongue as if they almost deliberately don't do it. There was that case here towards the end of play.

You look around, of really tired field. You look at Briden Cass who's, I say, bowled his boots off, 23, he's gone flogging in. Where's he fielding? Extra cover.

He's fielding an extra cover in the sunshine. He's been in the heat all day. Out there to the right, a deep square leg in the shade where he's been all day, Ben Duckett, who's done nothing. What happens to Cass in the covers?

One gets hit past him. You have to try and die for it, cramp in his hamstring, and he's lying there on the ground, and he still didn't get moved. It's just things like that. Just think, why? Why? Why? It's just, I think my same, I mean, I will say this, when England won in Pakistan and you were there three years ago, you know, the Brook Tour and

everything else, they won 3-0. Stokes was outstanding. Stokes, actually, his captaincy, played a massive part in England winning that. I think he's been off it in this series. I think he's probably had so much on, so much noise going elsewhere, you wouldn't have had cast fielding there at the end of a day where they've been in it all day if he's really on it you haven't seen the jiggling round you haven't seen the strange fields the kind of umbrella like fields that put pressure on the Pakistani bouncer in that series you either have a orthodox field or everyone's out at the leg side for the bouncer there's been nothing in between so i'm not sure that stokes would look back on this series with any great affection and felt that maybe he was quite as proactive as he has been but no i mean if he want to be honest do you think therefore he's a he's a he's a He was thinking, I haven't really got what I need here to win here. And he's looked around and thought, actually bowling, batting, fielding. Well, I'm not sure that he had what he had to win in Pakistan, really. He just made it, didn't he?

He had fielders right in the batsman's faces. He put real pressure on very flat pitches and short days. I just haven't seen that level of proactivity from him in this series. It's a massive series. I remember I still flash back to interviewing him before the first test in Perth. it's a full of optimism and I remember saying to how will he feel

if he fly back from Sydney and he kind of got the urn I mean you haven't got the urn but you know what I mean you've won the ashes and you can see him get a bit misty eye and say oh I'll be incredible

you know that's our dream that's what we're going to do blah blah blah well I mean that's yeah it hasn't happened and I suspect that he does do on things a bit

I think he you know you'd look it's easy to look at Ben Stokes and think you know you see the tattoos you know see him marching about and you can be a bit angry can't he out there at times

but actually he's a much softer more thoughtful person than that in real life and I think he's found this tour really tough but I do think that he's got the will and the competitive spirit to want to get revenge for this I think he will be back in 18 months time whatever happens to the others and by that I mean the director of cricket and the coach and there's still conversations we had about that

particularly if England do lose this one which it looks like they will now England have to keep Stokes going because he's the best captain they've got and he's said it before there's nobody else and I think he has got the competitive drive to want to get this right

back in England people will look at the score 518 for 7 and they might think oh no same old same old and this wasn't we've seen a few wheels off days in the past this wasn't a total wheels off day

was it for England no I think they pulled it back I think at lunch it looked like it going to be. You know, this is really not going to be good. But once head was out, and I see Bethel bowling, by the way, and it just shows you don't have to have a spinning pitch and the ball's spinning all over the place.

In order for a spinner to be effective, it's the change of pace. It's the change of field. It's the change of everything. That's actually what a spinner can bring. It doesn't have to be ripping past their gloves in order for a spinner to be effective. And I thought Bethel bowled nicely there. I mean, he's very much an apprentice, but he showed some talent. Well, we're going to hear from him now.

He took his first Ashes wicket today, and he's been speaking to Henry Moran. Long day in the dirt. Kind of got slower awards throughout, but yeah, you can't afford anyone. All our fast bowl is charged in all day. What's a day like that, like as a player, where you have to dig on all reserves mentally and physically? Yeah, I think it's kind of just those days that you have to just put in the pot as much as possible, that those days are pretty crucial in terms of how you win a test match.

And when it's not going your way to just hold and hold and hold until you finally get your rewards, and I think we did that pretty well. First dash is wicket, not a bad one to get. Bolled a lot of overs today. Tell us a bit about you as a bowler. Most people will know what you do with the bat. Yeah, yeah, obviously it was nice to get heady out. But yeah, I don't know, just me as a bowler, I kind of try and think like a batsman, yeah, and just kind of try and play that way.

How important the role is that for you and what messaging you've had from management about what they see as your role within the side? There's not been a whole load of messaging around bowling, but I've always said and people always know that I'm seeing myself as an all-rounder. And if there is a job for me to do then, then I'm more than happy to put my hand up. This is a big lead now for Australia. What do you feel would be a lead that would take England out of the game? I think, you know, tomorrow we've got to come and get them as quick as possible. I think any more runs that they get on this pitch, I think it's going to make it tough for us to win this test match.

So, yeah, I think we're going to have to come and hit them hard tomorrow morning. But, you know, we'll never say never. What about this surface? Because we've seen the ball do a few odd things, but in the May. it's looked pretty good for batting. Yeah, I think it's a surface that definitely favours a new ball for bowlers. There's kind of enough pacing it to score throughout, even when the ball gets soft. So I think it's one of them pitches that as a bowler, you have to be ready,

really relentless in your length and just hold that for as long as possible. There's going to be a ball that does something for you in terms of a bowling point of view. So, yeah, you just got to hold that length as long as possible. What can you take from the innings of Travis Head, Steve Smith, Joe Root in this game from the batting unit to know how to play and play the pitch in the situation? Well, I think Hedy is a bit of an anomaly in terms of how he goes about it. That's watching from Gully and I see him play a cover drive and the balls hit in the top of middle stem. I'm like, well, that's interesting. How do you do that?

But yeah, in terms of the way Rootie and Smith played, I think it just showed once they got past their first kind of 20, 30 balls on that wicket when it is most. most likely to get you out. They really put the bowlers under the pump and didn't really give them a sniff. So I think that's something for all of our bad us to take into that. How tough has it been for you,

having not played a huge amount of cricket in the last 12 months, to get it out there in the heat of Ash's battle? I've enjoyed it. You know, you're sitting on the sidelines just hoping to get the nod and, yeah, I felt ready. So it's just been nice to be out in the middle,

trying to contribute as much as possible and, yeah, just add to the team. No one means to drop catches, as the old saying. But if you have gone down again today, what are we putting this down to? I don't know, really. It's part of the game. You know that saying catchers win matches, but catches do get dropped. Yeah, and it's just one of those things that you look in the grand scheme of things,

and it does make a big impact, but it is part of the game. No one likes dropping a catch at no means to drop a catch. So, yeah, I'm not really sure. Just finally, this has been a long, hard tour for England. How are the energy reserves within that dressing room, not just physically, but also mentally, ahead of what is going to be a tough fight in this game? I think obviously the bowlers are kind of,

especially the guys that have played all five tests, mainly Karsie and the skipper. I think they're going to have to work hard in this next period to try and win us this test match. But, you know, this test cricket is going to be, it's going to be tough for those guys but yeah it's kind of one last push tomorrow in the morning

and then hopefully bowling to victory in the day five Jacob thanks for your time that's Jacob Bethel speaking to Henry Moran trying to put a brave positive face very well for you know it's in a very difficult situation didn't he

he laid out there what England had to do he wasn't hiding behind anything in particular I thought it's interesting the way he talked about learning from watching the more senior bats from play I mean I think he's got a big future I must say but he didn't shy away from accepting England got a big challenge tomorrow

they've got to get out there and get those wickets how big is the challenge for England from here yeah 134 already still batting to come there's no sign of Smith relenting you know I think you know England had to do well to survive tomorrow I think

just looking at the body language so survive tomorrow yeah yeah there's all the cricket tomorrow well there won't be 98 oh but you know it's a full day plus a half hour if Australia get a lead of 180, 190 and beyond it's going to be very

tough for England yeah those bowlers are going to be roaring in and bowling decent lines and lengths probably as well yeah that's the thing yeah so a stiff target tall order ahead for England so 134 runs ahead Australia we had two Australia century makers today Travis Head and Steve Smith

Smith back for more tomorrow he's been speaking to Adam Gilchrist on the host television station. Another perfect day in the sunshine here at your favourite ground, the SCG. Congratulations. Thank you. It was a nice batting out there, pretty good wicket. So, yeah, nice to come off the back of what was the pretty good innings from Travis Head. He played beautifully yet again. And obviously started my innings with him. And when you're batting with him, they forget about you a little bit, the way he's going at the moment.

So, yeah, I was able to get into my work, get the pace of the wicket. and, yeah, get into my work from there. Yeah, maybe not at your fluent best at the beginning. It is that sort of pitch where it looks like it takes a little bit of time, but by the end of it you found your hands, your feet, and you spent half a time on your back rolling around in the dirt at one point. No, yeah, it was a nice wiggard. So, yeah, obviously they came with a few plans with the shorts up for a bit,

and, you know, I was just trying to get out of the way and get off strike and things like that. So, no, worked out well today. A couple of nice partnerships. Greenie, I thought, was batting really nice. and Slug came out and batted beautifully then as well. So, yeah, hopefully we can put a little partnership together in the morning, get up over a 200 lead, and the wicket start to play a few more tricks. Second only to Bradman for Ashes test match hundreds.

You went past a few great names today. Greg Chabble, David Boone, Alan Borda for runs on this ground, only behind Ricky Ponting. Are you aware of those names and those legend players that you're going past? No, I'm not. I just love batting here. Obviously, it's my home deck. I know the ground really well.

Yeah, when I get in here, I really like batting here. The pace of the wicket sort of suits the way I play. And yeah, just love playing in front of this crowd. Yeah, and they love seeing you play. One last one, all the unique mannerisms were on display today, and it makes it so entertaining to watch. Is that a technique for you for your own personal concentration? Does it keep you switched on?

I don't know. I guess so. It just happens naturally. I don't know if I'm doing it. Yeah, it just kind of happens when I'm out there. I think when I'm doing all those things it probably means I'm in a really good zone so hopefully we can see a few more of them yes I think everyone here hope so too

congratulations mate more done so Steve Smith is talking to Adam Gilchrist back for more tomorrow 200 plus well it will be away to it I mean why declare you know they'll just keep going and score whatever runs they can

in his first innings and really pile the pressure on England he's an extraordinary player I mean he plays sometimes the most beautiful shots in perfect position. The cover drive particularly is a really good shot of his and other times he's the ugliest bats

when I've ever seen extraordinary shots With a roly-poly shots he was playing to believe he actually a short ball he actually served it with a vertical bat

to mid on it was like a tennis shot he gets himself in extraordinary positions I think he's incredibly frustrating to bowl out and not just in terms of the positions of his batting all the fiddings

all the messing about you know he asked Bryden Kast to turn his sunglasses round but he's feeling him it off because there was a reflection. And he called a wide as well? All that stuff. And when he doesn't play a ball exactly where he wants, he then plays it where he should have played it

so the bowler knows actually you're going to go through there next time. God, I tell you what, he would wind you up as a bowler. But he's astonishingly effective, obviously, 37 test match hundreds and he's still got power to add tomorrow. He's one of those players that, I mean, you can't help but admire, but as an England supporter, he just can't wait to see the back. of him eventually.

No, and from a bowling perspective. But he's mapped it out there, hasn't he? We know exactly what Australia are going to do. They've got the resources to do it. I thought Webster played nicely tonight, actually. I thought he looked a good player. Perhaps ahead of Cameron Green,

who again got started, got 37, then got himself out. But I thought Webster looked a nice player. But, yeah, England are going to be really under pressure when they come to bat tomorrow. Thanks, Jonathan. Let's have a look at the day statistically. Zoltz, where do you want to start?

On Steve Smith? We can start with Smith, as we heard there. It was his 13th Ashes 100. That put him ahead of Jack Hobbs in second place behind Bradman's 19. He also overtook Jack Hobbs in most runs in England v Australia, test cricket into second place behind Bradman Smith. Hobbs 3,636. Smith passed him today.

Bradman over 5,000 still untouchable. Travis Head, his superb series, continued his third century. of this Ashes series and a second 150 plus score. Only the fifth player in an Ashes series since 1948 have two 150 plus scores in the same series and only the second Australian since 1940. Arthur Morris did it in 48. Steve War in 1989, the only other Australian since then.

Three England players have done it in that time. Alistair Cook in 2010-11. Michael Vaughn eight years before that. And David Garron, the home 1985 series. And openers with 300s in an... Ashes series since 2002-3, only Alistair Cook in that tour in 2010-11 has done that. So, yes, Australia's two leading batters. Dominating the scorecard, a very odd-looking scorecard.

No one's completely failed yet. Carey's 16, the lowest score. And a succession of partnerships. We've had seven 50-plus stands in this inning, the first five, all 50-plus, then a 27 stand the one before Carey's dismissal Green and Smith added 71 and Smith and Webster

have now added 81 it's only the second time in the history of test cricket that a team has had more than 650 stands in the same innings India did it at the Oval in 2007 they had 850 plus stands in that innings they got 664 against England

on that occasion so we still haven't really seen many massive partnerships in this series but Australia as they did in Brisbane when they got 511 with no hundred stands. Here they had the highest down 105 and well past 500 already. And I mean, it's been such a curious series. In the last Ashes, Australia, didn't have a single score below 220 or anything over 420. In this series, they'd have, they've had three scores below 160, but now two 500 plus scores as well.

Which I think, again, says a lot about, we talk about, you know, the techniques of modern cricket, when conditions are difficult, teams tend to collapse rapidly. quite low scores and when conditions are good for batting teams generally dominate more than they did in the past and score quicker over four and over in this series Australia's run rate in this series

run about 4.2 per over is one of their highest ever in a test series. Okay thanks very much and for all our content from this series including Andy Zaltzman's daily quiz just search Ashes on BBC sounds and a reminder the TMS Ashes debrief with Alex Hartley is on BBC Eye Player

and the BBC Sport YouTube channel. Coming next, Eleanor Aldroyd finds out more about the Jane Magrarday at the SCG.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Because it's day three of the pink test, it is Jane McGrade and we are remembering Jane

and her legacy and particularly the McGrath Foundation, which is a celebration really of the positivity of the work that Glenn has done in the last

20 years in honour of Jane and to support the people of Australia in their cancer journeys and Glenn is here with me and Emma Agnew wife of Jonathan is here too and and Emma has a particular reason to be marking this day in a very special way but Glenn first of all just tell us about what today means to you and how it's felt so far yeah to think it's an 18th pink test the 21st year of the McGrath Foundation it you know it just blows me away sometimes just to think what's been created and to see everyone roll up today in peak it is very very special i've got my family here as well my three children and james holly and madison and they've seen i think the australian public have seen the elder two children especially grow up over over that time but you know

jane jane was english she was a beautiful person and uh you know to think that what she went through and the impact of that is now having is quite amazing and something that was always important Jane was, whatever you do, you had to enjoy, you had to have fun doing it. I know Tracy says that we try to put the fun in fundraising. But, yeah, and that's what it's about. It's about life and it's about getting out and enjoying it. And, you know, it's a celebration, this test match and this day is a celebration of life, I think, of hope of getting out there and join it. And remembering fondly our loved ones who aren't with us anymore and trying to respect them.

by living our life as well as we can. So it is a positive day. There's a lot of emotions, but we try to look at it from a positive perspective and enjoy life and celebrate life. And Emma, you came here to the pink test in 2014, I think, wasn't it, on the Ashes Tour 12 years ago? And you had a very particular reason

for wanting to be here today for this test. Explain a little bit about your story. Yeah, absolutely. So when I came in 12 years ago, it was just a love. day. I met Glenn and, you know, had a brilliant day wearing pink, obviously. And then eight years ago, I was not so lucky. I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Fortunately, very early on. So although I had a very aggressive breast cancer and I had a very cruel, grueling treatment round, I was lucky

enough to get through it. And Glenn said to me, if you get through it, next time you come back, of fact, I think you said, when you get through it. Then you'll come and you'll come on the pitch and be part of it and obviously four years ago we couldn't because it was COVID but here I am today and yes the emotion was amazing out there because we saw this great parade didn't we of people who've been affected by cancer in in different ways and and you were part of that so what did it feel like in your glorious pink dress for you well obviously but there were all sorts of people out there and when we stepped through a sort of a curtain towards the boundary edge and you could feel the love from the stands. And everyone there had a story to tell. There was an old lady of 83 who I was

chatting to called Margaret, who's a fundraiser through trotting harness racing. There were two men who are all part of the sort of ambulance service or the pickup service, I think they called it. Everyone there had a story. We've got a friend in the crowd called Sarah. She said when she saw me walk out, she just burst into tears because her mom died of cancer. You know, so everyone has a story to tell. And it just, you feel it when you're out there, not in the heat. You feel the love coming through and the clapping and the cheering and I felt very privileged. Thank you. It is amazing.

I hear stories every year of how, you know, the emotion of being out there. And one time I sort of walked back in, I remember a couple of times I have, but this one time I walked back in with everyone that was on the ground, walked into the rooms where they've gone. And the emotion, it was like, you know, I remember winning a World Cup and coming in the emotion. And it was similar, the emotions that people were. feel that was celebrating there was tears there was laughed it was it just it took me by surprise a little bit just how much this meant to everyone else it's a big day for me and you get caught up in the emotions but it also it's a it's a massive day for a lot of people at this ground and that's

why they come here and to be involved in it is a you know it's an amazing it's just so many emotions isn't it is the steward who um sort of guided me into i had no idea i was going i was wandering around aimlessly and Jolson was no hell whatsoever. Just normal, isn't it? Yeah, normal service. But she said to me, oh, are you really going on the ground? I said, yeah, yeah, we're going there. She said, have a wave for my sister who didn't make it three years ago.

But she said, go out. And that's what you do. You wave and you clap and you are celebrating. I know I was lucky. I was very lucky and lots of people aren't as lucky. But it is about celebration and living the moment. it really is and the money that's raised during this test match and during the year as well because this is not just for five days every year Glenn does such important work to support

people who are living with cancer in Australia and not just breast cancer now you've extended it to cover all cancers yeah exactly right and I know firsthand the difference having a cancer care nurse does when when my wife Jane was first diagnosed there was no support there we went through the journey ourselves and you know she had incredible strength and got through But then when she had the recurrence, all of a sudden there's a breast care nurse there. And the positive difference that made in our lives, but especially James was incredible. And we soon realized there were not enough of these amazing people out there. So that's why we launched McGraw Foundation, raising fund to place originally McGraw Breast Care nurses out there.

Now, as the federal government came until it was last year or the previous year and asked us if we'd now take that support to anyone going through any type of cancer because there's a lot of people out there that have no support at all with the type of cancer they have and there's got to be equity you shouldn't be discriminated against by what type of cancer you'll have

to what type of support you receive. So, yeah, so I know firsthand and so that's been our goal for the last 21 years and we have 343 McGraw cancer care nurses out there. They've supported around 170,000 families across this country of ours but the fact is one in two people in this country

and probably around the world, we'll get a cancer diagnosis. And when you think about in those numbers, there's a lot of people in Australia that are going through a cancer diagnosis and they have no support. There's no cancer care nurse there with them, and especially in rural and regional country areas. It's tougher again. So that's why we're looking to raise money here to place those nurses

and provide that support. And when you get the diagnosis, as you know, Emma, it's a terrifying moment to hear that. words that nobody wants to hear and what kind of support did you have and did Jonathan how going through your your diagnosis and then your treatment after that yes it's the family as well so I yes you hear those words you know I went in for my my check-up and everyone said oh you'll be fine and of course not everybody is fine and I wasn't fine and I was really quite calm about it I don't know why

maybe because Jonathan was devastated because I do think the people who aren't being treated, really struggle as well. And I remember him saying, I'm finding it really hard because they're addressing everything to you, Emma. And he is quite used to being the centre of attention in our family. But I know what he meant, because they spoke to me because, funny enough, I was the one with cancer. But he needed a support, and with times I would come out of treatment. And he had had a nurse, and he'd wept all over her. Because while I was in being treated and felt very safe and cocooned, he and the children felt absolutely at sea, and that's where that support really comes in. Yeah, no, the support, it's not just for the, it impacts the whole family, doesn't it?

And I guess from a male perspective, our job, you know, we're here, we protect our family. And, you know, when Jane was going through it, all you can do is support them. You can't help them with it. You can't, you can't, you can't, you know, have the cancer yourself. So you feel a bit helpless sometimes with how much you can do and how much you can give. But I know our nurse all of a sudden there was someone there to help, you know, the fear that's associated with the word cancer to start with, sometimes send you your brain into overdrive. And to have someone there who knows what's coming up next can help you make informed decisions, even just a shoulder to cry on. Jane always explained it as her nurse allowed her, you know, when she was

first diagnosed, you've got so many questions. So what do you do? You jump on. There's so much information, so much misinformation online. She got off feeling worse than she did beforehand. Having our nurse, Alison, who's actually now one of our McGraw nurses, which is, and always say this is this person here, this is where it started from Allison. But having her, just put Jane's mind at ease, knew what was coming up. Someone had come along, help make informed decisions to really have a plan to focus on. So she knew what she had to do, what we had to do.

So when she came home, she could be herself. She wasn't just the cancer patient. She could be a mum, a friend, a wife, she could be herself. And, you know, that was the greatest gift. And I still think it's the greatest gift. You can give back to someone, give themselves their life back to them while they're going through something pretty horrible. And yeah, they're amazing people and, you know, really proud of our nurses.

Absolutely. I would completely second that. And the first thing they said was, don't go on the internet, don't be Dr. Google, because you will only read quite negative stories because you go on to forums and things. I'm sure they help some people, but actually just stick to the plan. This is the plan. They tell you what you need to know at the time. They don't give you the long-term plan. They say this is what you're doing for the next three weeks. This is what you might feel. This is what you can do to help. That's it. Right, we'll get through that three weeks. Then we'll

go on. And even now, when I go for my checkups twice a year, there is still a nurse in with either my oncologist or Monica, my amazing. surgeon who I named my wig order actually. She was amazing. But, you know, there's stumbly there just in the background because I always say, will I ever stop this fear when I just come back? And they said, no, but it's right. Just as feel a bit of apprehension, so you're on it. Yeah. And the other side to that is, I always say when you're waiting for results, you've gone for scans. All of a sudden, you're in no man's lane. You can't do anything. Whereas even if you get a diagnosis that's not good, okay, now we can focus. We can come up with the

plan so but when you're waiting it's a horrible it's a horrible verb yeah and they're there to help sort of through those times as well when you look at the 21 years now that the Australian cricket community has supported the charity supported you and your family as well and you look actually at the way that we've developed similar days in england as well with the ruth strass foundation read for ruth day at lords and bob willis and blue for bob at Edgeburston as well. What do you think about this sport, this world, this community that we're all part of? I think that's a beauty of sport and especially of cricket, how it brings people together. You know, you look around the world at the moment and there's a fair bit negativity

and horrible things happening. You look at what happened in Bondo a while back there and just a horrendous thing like this. I look at this day and it brings people together. You know, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, it brings people together. And, you know, I've notice that probably more this and whether it's just me who I am my stage of life but even just the way people come up to me even all the interviews I've done the journalists the questions they've asked there's a certain amount of positive respect there they're not looking for an angle or a bit of controversy it's all and it's it's actually such a good feeling the the vibe around the ground the goodwill I think is what people need these days and I always say if you know if if if you can do one

thing each week for someone else. This world will be a far better place. And, you know, I wish six days a week. I wish nobody knew who I was. But that one day where I can actually, you know, make a difference or give back is, you know, I'm happy, happy to do. It's something to be very proud of, Glenn. It's a privilege to share it with you. And I'm sure, Emma, you feel the same as well. Totally. And I just, that positivity of, you know, when you are better and you can travel, you'll be here. And it, and it was there. It was one of the things I hung on to. And I woke up this morning feeling, really lucky to wake up and thrilled to be coming. So thank you Glenn. I'm glad you can make it and we've spoken about it for a few years haven't we?

You have. You know, it's funny how life turns out, you know, Jane was English. And we've started this here, you know, I've spoken a lot to Straussie especially in the last, what, a few years since. And I knew Ruth reasonably well and Ruth was Australian. So it's quite ironic how, you know, Straussie's English, I'm Aussie, our wives were, English and his, and what's being created at Lords and here at the SCG. It's pretty special. Glenn, Emma, thank you very much. Well, that is Glenn McGrath. And Emma Agnew talking to Eleanor Oldroyd.

And we had a lovely and moving email from Jim Press, who says, today is a special day. For many years, my wife, Susan, has always wanted to visit Australia. As a serving military man, it's always been a bit difficult to plan too far ahead for big adventures because we're often at the mercy of international events. So we decided that when I hit retirement after 36 years in late 2025, we'd make the trip as it aligned with the Ashes tour. Moreover, it was the Sydney test that she wanted to come to. And specifically the third day as a historian, lawyer and teacher, she was unbending in advocating for women's rights and

health. And so the long-term plan was set. Here I am in Sydney on the third day, but without Susan. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2022 and died on the 29th of June this year. She received incredible care from doctors and nurses and volunteers and friends and strangers throughout her inspiring battle. I felt that I couldn't make the trip, but was convinced by friends and family to come to support this great cause and to honour Susan. Coincidentally, I'm staying with my friends Andy who moved to Sydney 15 years ago and was a classmate of Susan's. His wife and children have been so supportive along with everyone at home. I want this to be a positive experience

today, although I cannot help being emotional. My advice to everyone is that it's great to plan things, but sometimes life might just get in the way. So seize the day to sometimes follow your heart and thank a doctor or a nurse when you see one.

I might be here on my own, but I'm certainly not alone. To everyone affected by this awful disease, including friends and family, keep believing, keep positive, accept cancer as part of your life, not let your life be part of cancer. That's from James Press,

who's here at the SCG today. So thank you very much for sending us that email. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, it's certainly been amazing seeing the SCG turn pink today, and we send all our best wishes to all those affected. You can watch the best of the action on the BBC Sport website and app now, with our main highlights on the BBC Eye Player available. day of the series from 5pm. We're back on air tonight at 1045pm ahead of the first ball at 11 o'clock.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.