Test Match Special - The England Summer report card

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Daniel Norcross is alongside former England Ashes bowler Steven Finn & batter Michael Carberry, as well as Chief cricket reporter Stephan Shemilt to rate England’s home summer. Who heads home with an A* and who could do better?They look at the form of Jacob Bethell, Ollie Pope, Shoaib Bashir, and many more.

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Brendan McCullen's School of Cricket is out for the summer. And I'm alongside Stephen Finn, Michael Carberry and Stefan Schemald to judge how each player has fared across the formats in England's home fixtures. Who heads home with an A-star and who could do better? You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. We're going to go through to players. Not every single one of them, because quite a few have played this summer. And we're gonna give them a grade.

And apparently, this is old money grading. It's GCSE, so you guys will know more about it than I do. We have an A star down to an F. I'm not sure they grade GCSEs like that anymore. No, this is why I said old school. It's old school, so now it's nine to one. But we're gonna do A star to F. So I'm presuming A star is a nine.

A is an eight. And F is one? F must be one. Somehow, I don't know how we get down there, but we'll see. Maybe, we'll work it out as we go along. Just trust us. all right and so where did this summer all begin when it began weirdly here at

Trent Bridge didn't it against Zimbabwe with a game that probably took on a great deal more significance than we imagined it would do for reasons and the major reason being that Jacob Bethel did not play he was the man in possession from the previous test matches against New Zealand who had only got that chance because Jordan Cox had bust his hand and because Jamie Smith was away on paternity leave so once Jamie Smith had come back in the side, Olli Pope was permitted to stay at three and then he got a hundred and seventy odd here as England thrashed Zimbabwe which is a pattern that

was been repeated through much of this year actually Zimbabwe played test matches and got absolutely walloped but the problem then was that the one player that Jacob Bethel could have come in for got 170 and from that point on we then had Jacob Bethel wandering around running running on the drinks so I the player I want to start with is Ollie Pope because I would say I don't know if you agree with me Stefan but in that top seven there's only one slot that's really up for grabs if you think about the way the England selectors have decided what the opening batting's going to be for the ashes we know it's duck it and crawley we know route is obviously going to play we know Harry Brooks going to play

and Ben Stokes went fit and Jamie Smith so the one slot is Ollie Pope so let's start with Olli Pope. How has his summer been? Olly Pope's summer has been exactly how we would have imagined Oli Pope's summer could have been. And I'm certain that as an extension of this

we will talk about Jacob Bethel. And I don't know if it was as simple as a decision as Oli Pope made runs against Zimbabwe. Therefore, Oli Pope had to remain in the team against India. I think it would have been much easier for

to leave him out obviously if Pope hadn't got runs but I would really like to think that England's selection or England's knowledge of their players or England's impression of their players didn't hinge on whether or not their incumbent number three got runs against a relatively average Zimbabwe team. Problem being though that he didn't just get runs he got a big hundred and then you're saying well why would how do we leave him out and that was kind of the noise that was happening. The whole summer started with that slight misunderstanding,

maybe Ben Stokes misspoke a little bit about how Jacob Bethel was obviously going to come straight back once he'd come back from IPL duty and he rephrased that or clarified it to mean the squad, not the team, but Olly Pope gets 170, you're not going to drop him, aren't you?

Yeah, and that was a really bizarre situation in that, you know, I was standing next to Ben Stokes when he said that the Jacob Bethel comes straight back in. I was trying to remember exactly you put two and two together and you probably know what's going to happen. Those of Stokes's exact words. Right. And we didn't, do we?

We did it? And I think it depends on I'm trying to remember exactly what the question was in terms of is Jacob Bethel going to come back in and Stokes thought he was talking about the squad. Every journalist in the room thought he was talking about the team. It was a misunderstanding. And I think there was a number of us journalists in the pub that night watching the Europa League final

and we were gradually getting messages from the England camp saying Ben Stokes isn't exactly happy with what you've written today. And it was all cleared up and then we spoke to Ben Stokes after the game and he used those words about there was an agenda that was twisted against Olli Pope. And it was a very strange situation. And at that point, well, we came away thinking, well, Ollie Pope's definitely going to be batting number three against India. And we will take Olly Pope's performances against India

as the barometer of where he is in terms of a test match number three in his place in this team and I'll go back to that point of of it is exactly what we would have expected I think he's got a career batting average of 35 and across that series he averaged 34 we learnt nothing more about Olly Pope

than we didn't know already and you could really say the same about Jacob Bethel across this summer we don't know a great deal more about him than we knew already other than he's an incredibly talented young prospect but we don't yet know if he will go on to be successful at test level

or if he's ready to play test cricket at the highest level at the moment because he just hasn't played enough. We played one test match Michael and it was an absolutely crucial match with the series in the balance he came out to bat at a really crucial moment he got out to a pretty horrible shot but this isn't having a go at Jacob Bethel

he barely picked up a bat I mean there was various statistics going around about the number of balls that he'd faced in the entire summer and what was it, Steph? about 270 odd. It was something of that magnitude, wasn't it? I think he'd bowled more balls. By his own admission, he said that he should have batted more, didn't he?

He did an interview after he scored that 100 and missed. He said it before he made the 100. Did he say it before? On the morning of the game, he was asked, you know, and he was on it. I probably should have played more cricket. Then he went to made his maiden professional century for quite a good story arc across the day. But back to Pope and by extension, Bethel,

because I think when we're putting on together our report, We may as well mark them both together. They're intertwined. They are intertwined. Their fate's carbs are intertwined. What have you made of Oli Pope somewhere? Because he did get 100 against India. He got 100 against Zimbabwe.

When he's good, he's very, very good. When he's not, it's the same Oli Pope. It's a bit skittish, a bit. Those familiar traits are still there, aren't they? Yeah. I agree with Stefan. You can remember the needle for me hasn't really moved on OliPod that much. this season I think

again it's been very checkered you know no disrespect as Zimbabwe but you'd sort of expect him to score runs against Zimbabwe I thought the 100 against India was a great knock but after that he struggled it was very in and out

are people working him out is that part of the problem because it happens a lot in series that Pope makes an impact at the start of a series and his impact reduces I don't know whether that's fatigue or whether over the course of a five match series bowlers start to get the hang of how they want to bowl at him. Looking at him, the batsman, Olliepoke, look, I've always felt watching him bat,

there are issues within his setup, if you like, where I think a good bowler, if their patient, can expose him. He's very cat on a hot tin roof when he goes to the crease. And I think, you know, he needs to learn to relax a little bit more. I think he has a little bit of an issue of playing straight as well. I've always felt that from the time I've watched him. You know, bat never comes down straight. And you've got bowlers the likes of Stark and Bomra swinging the ball around in our conditions.

I mean, anyone's going to struggle. Tends to fall over a touch. Tends to fall over quite a lot. Boll, gets bold a lot for a top order batter. So I think there's always, you know, you remember this is a lad who started his career at Surrey as a number six. So to suddenly be thrust into an England setup at the top, you know, the highest level batting at three. So I think there's going to be, I suppose you have to make some allowances, maybe, and you're batting at six at the Oval, so to speak.

Behind five, usually pretty good batters in the dominant side. One thing I would say, we're going to talk about Olli Pope averaging 34 against India across those five test matches. I think if Oli Pope averaged 34 in five test matches in Australia, England can win the ashes with that. A number three that does that. I think that would be enough. Well, it's a really good point because actually when some statistics came out earlier this season

about the relative scores of number threes for England over the years, he's actually comparable. Because, I mean, I think actually his career average at number three is near a 40 overall, play against a very good Indian side. So how on earth, Stephen, are we going to give him a grade in this report card? Because on the one hand, we think he's not moved forward. On the other hand, if you put into context the role he plays, which is one that Joe Root doesn't want to do. seems to want to bat number three for England he's doing something that nobody really seems to care

for and he's actually doing it pretty much as well as anyone since jonathan trotter's done it yeah it's it's very hard to decipher isn't it it's um you're you're looking at it and you think his natural batting position is in international cricket is a five or a six i would say um but there's just no space in that middle order route for brook five stoke six smith seven is a very strong four to seven for me and one that is going to serve them really well, I think, in Australia, that middle and lower middle order. And I like him as a player. I do think he's a fantastic player.

When he does score hundreds, they tend to be influential hundreds. He doesn't do it in pointless times when other people have, I think there have been criticisms of players who've gone before who would score easy hundreds at easy times in series. The bell got that criticism quite a bit. Sometimes not fair, but yeah, exactly that.

sometimes, you know, when side score 500, he was always getting 100. Yeah, whereas I feel like Ollie Pope's hundreds actually matter and make a difference within games. So for that reason, I like him as a player. And yeah, I think I would agree with Steph that if he would average 34 in the ashes, England would take that up. And I think it would set England up for that middle order and lower middle order to really make inroads with the battenham.

Okay, look, we've got a lot of players to get through. We've got to give a mark. Has anybody here ever been a teacher? Carbs as a coach. So I think he's closest. So I would like you to propose a mark, given that A star is right at the top, then you've got an A, then you've got a B,

and going down towards F. What are we giving him? Aren't they U's as well? There might be U. I can't see anybody around this table daring to give anybody that I'm going to give you the name of a U. But who knows, we might do it.

I'll give him a B minus. B minus. I was in C. territory, so I'm with, I wouldn't die on Cobbs' Hill to equip with a B-minus. It's so close B-minus. A big minus question mark minus, but no, B-minus. Are you happy with that, Vinnie? Yeah. Well, let's put that on his report card. He's got a B-minus. It could do better, but he's doing quite, but he's working hard. He's clearly working hard. I think we can give him that. There's a lot of effort going on there. I wonder as if maybe a touch less effort might

actually help him. Right. I want to move on to, for me, the most exciting development. for English cricket this summer and the player himself will probably battle off and say what do you mean exciting development I've been playing quite a long time for England actually been played quite a lot in the last year but it hasn't felt like it Joffra Archer the return of Joffra Archer created a buzz and his very first spell was scintillating and magnificently picked up the wicket of Giuse while really early on didn't he were to catch at slip and it felt like English cricket was rejuvenated that the idea of the ashes started to be more than a pipe dream the moment he came hurtling in from the pavilion end it was gorgeous Finney you're the fast bowler here Joffra himself

has said I've actually played quite a lot of cricket for England in the last year I've done loads of 50 over games plenty of T20 cricket whereas this been vindication of the approach to get Joffra Archer out absolutely fit there seemed to be no ramifications no injury problems and he appeared

to bowl as fast in his on the first day of test matches as he did on the last day of test matches give or take half a mile an hour it was pretty impressive stuff yeah very very impressive and yeah vindication for the way that he's been managed

and handled I think really impressive the way that he's managed and handled himself and the expectations that he puts on himself which is the real challenge when you're injured as a fast bowler you're sat there and they are long hard horrible hours of rehab

when you just want to be out there playing cricket. And it can become incredibly frustrating. And then when you get your opportunity, you snatch at it and things don't click quite as well as you'd like them to, whereas I've seen nothing of the like with Joffre. He makes bowling look effortless and natural, which clearly helps when you're coming in off the back of, especially in test cricket we're talking here.

He has played a lot of whiteball cricket for England over the last 12 months. But test cricket in particular to come in and get the flow of the game and make impacts immediately in that laws test match, having not played a test for a long time was something that's really impressive and I think actually the as you highlighted the fact that he didn't lose pace across the test matches really

and was able to bowl significant spells on the last day of that Lord's game to get rid of Pant to almost impale the wicket keeper when he bowled him on that last morning so yeah it's been really heartening to see him back in an England shirt playing all three formats

not missing games for injury he was rested, I suppose you could call it, on the ice rink down at Cardiff, and rightly so. Rightly so. Not saying the other bowlers are expendable, but if I were to want to wrap cotton wool and bubble wrap around anyone,

it would be Joffre Archer, especially looking at what we have coming forward. And that's the most exciting thing is now that we're at the end of the home international summer, but looking forward in six, eight weeks' time when they're on that plane to Australia and they're having their practice sessions in Perth and you're seeing that ball flying through to the wicketkeeper

on the 30-yard circle. That's what's really exciting. Co-a-op's, I would have been tempted to give Joffa an A or an A-star. The only thing that's holding me back is something that's not his fault. He doesn't play for Surrey. No, isn't that? It's the England management, I think,

got their tactics with him slightly wrong. By making him play at Old Trafford instead of the Oval, when England were two-one up, and I know what they were doing, They were going for the kill. But Old Trafford, we've done enough games at Old Trafford to know and seed enough cricket this summer as well where at that point Lancashire hadn't been able to force a win in any game.

It's not a batting paradise, it's just a turgid dull pitch for the most part, for the test match pitch. And England ended up using Archer. It felt to me unnecessarily. At the Oval, he would have been absolutely devastating on that surface. On the first two days, the oval pitch is really spicy. and I don't think that game would have got anywhere near a six-run win to India if Joffra Archer had been fit and firing for that game

instead they rested him for that game so actually I think England lost a bit of Archer impact over the summer but that is not Joffra Archer's problem it's how he's being used well look for me I know Joffa fairly well I just hope that the England management do learn from previous mistakes where when he first came on the scene you remember a test match in I think he was Was it Wellington? Mount Lunganoo. Yeah, I mean, the same situation there where he was asked to run up and bowl eight, nine over the bounces on a pitch.

It was barely bouncing ankle high. I mean, that's just foolish, in my opinion. So I'm hoping that lessons have been learnt from those times going forward, knowing now that he's had a lot of injuries. Great to see him back, backing up games. I thought he was pretty good through the 100 as well. He bowled fast. Got his old mojo back for me. You know, he's got some good...

And I've always said this is Joffy. You know, yes, you've got good skills as a bowler. You know, don't forget that. The stumps don't move. You know, you can hit the stumps. And sometimes knowing when someone's got that pace as a batter, you're naturally on the back foot and waiting for the bumper. But he gets a lot of people bowled on the crease.

So don't, you know, don't lose that skill either. So it's great to see that that's happening. The old pace is back. More importantly, he's backing up games. but you just hope now that the management side of Joffra Archer we have to get that spot on I mean if we can go into most test match

I'm not saying he's going to play all five test matches in an Asch's series it's probably unlikely but just to have the option of himself or Wood to be able to bring sub in and sub out just to have that little bit of X factor someone who can take the pitch out of equation in that series is going to be crucial

we saw the impact that Wood made at Headingley in the Ashes series a couple of years ago and when he burst through Usman Quadra and no one had been able to get through Usman Quadra. It absolutely did. But one thing to note, Stefan, is

how his relationship with Stokes develops? Because it was quite fascinating watching him at Old Trafford, wasn't it? Where Stokes is very much a man in charge of that team. His ideas are the only ideas that count. And you could see Joffrey getting a little bit frustrated with the plans that Stokes were setting for him, wanting perhaps slightly different plans,

and Stokes is not going to have it. Stokes is going to do whatever Stokes want. So Joffre needs to understand, doesn't he, that everybody who plays in that team, you know, there's Stokes' vision, and then you have to perform it. Yeah, but Ben Stokes is a good enough leader, tactician, and man-manager to know

that it won't be one-size-fits-all for the other ten players in his team, and he will give more lee-way to some than he will to others, and he will have an arm round some, and he will have a rocket for others. So I'm not concerned, about that actually I think that and let's not forget

Stokes and Archer go a long way back it was Ben Stokes that walked up to Joffa Archer 2019 World Cup final before the Super over and said you know this does not define you they are tight I think as as individuals but in terms of Archer's summer

one he deserves an incredibly high grade just for his desire to get back to play test cricket you could see in the wicket that he took the relief the past of that first wicket was amazing and actually I guess I'm only speaking for myself here I could be a pretty cynical hack but that was genuinely emotional life-affirming moment to see him take that wicket and sprint off towards squarely I mean who knows show a Bashir who knows where he would have ended up if showyad Bashir hadn't

intercepted him he might still have been running now but along with him ran to here there'd be halfway to Scotland but also you know again from a journalist point of view I'm always ready to give the ECB some grief but the way way they managed him back to fitness, they deserve a lot of credit for that. And remember in the run-up to that Lord's Test match, we were talking about how little first-class cricket he played when he'd only played bowled so many overs for Sussex in the run-up to that in first-class cricket, but he was good to go, and he backed it up all the way through the Lord's Test.

I do think you're spot on in your assessment of the following test match, where England put all their eggs in one basket in trying to win the series. Entirely understandable in having Archer and Bride and Kars in the same team. there was a slightly weird situation with Gus Atkinson and the run-up to that test that threw England's plans out but it did leave them with that weird seam attack at the Oval and it all sort of fell apart.

So that was a misstep in the way that they managed their resources. Just going back to the ashes, one thing to remember is the first three tests are really spaced out, eight or nine days in between first and second and then second and third. What we definitely don't want England going to do is planning too far ahead

like they did last time and got it completely wrong if they can get Archer and Wood on the same pitch in Perth that could be really, really tasty but yeah, high grade for Archer high grade for a way was managed

I think we're all going to go for a high grade the question is is it an A star an A or a B plus I'm going to propose an A well I think you always want to leave room for a higher ceiling yeah I would agree with an A

because I don't know if we'll come on to these players but I can think of other players that I would want to give a higher grade than Jopha Archer. Okay, alright, okay, this is very exciting. What about you? Cubs, are you happy with the A, or do you think I'm being a bit too excitable? No, I think an A is fair enough. I think Jopha has worked incredibly hard to get back

to this point in his careers where he can do what, you know, he can take those wickets bowling and bowl fast. It takes a lot of mental energy, so I'm happy to give him that A. Lovely. So we've got an A for Archer. The next time, we've done Jacob Bethel So, oh, well, actually we didn't do Jacob Bethel. Didn't give him a grade. We didn't give him

a grade. I think we do, we have to go back and give Jacob Bethel a grade, and it's quite hard to do so, because he's been a bit of a phantom cricketer. We mentioned already that he said that he wished he had played more. I think I wished he'd played more. Warwickshire, had plenty of caddy championship pictures he could have

played. Not his fault, though. Not necessarily his fault, but the ECB can demand these things, and right, but the point about giving someone a grade is that not everything necessarily has to be your fault but what grade do we give him because yes he's got his first professional hundred it was a magnificent knock he didn't have a great test match he didn't have great time in the whiteboard games before he got that hundred and he didn't have a very good hundred i don't know whether we're counting the hundred in this probably not we're putting this grade together because it's his england performances

this is an international report card it's an international report card exactly so i i i'm in the sound of C to D bracket He's just scored his first international hundred When Finney was talking about an international report card He sounded like a man who sat through a number of ECB appraiserser

Don't you worry about how I've been bowling For Middlesex or Sussex I have done I'd be presented with weighted averages Which always put my average up Now the reason I mention the letter D is that we've already given Ollie Pope a B-minus And he has scored two test match centuries And average 34 against a very very strong Indian

side in a five-match testes So Beth, Bethel has to come underneath Olly Pope. He has to come underneath Olly Pope, doesn't he? So where are we going with that? You're outraged by a D, so I'm presuming you're in for a C. You can't judge someone on one test match. That's exactly what we're doing. Well, I know, but I'm saying you can't.

Well, he's got a bunch of whiteboard games behind him as well. Yes, he does. I'd be in B territory. So you want to give him a higher grade than Oly Pope? I think I don't agree with the minus. I think you should be an A, star, A, B, C, D or F. But that's where we are. He's changed, he's shifting the goalpost.

It's because he doesn't want to say anything mean about anybody. No, that's not true. That's not true. Who do you want to say mean things about? Let's talk about them. You, your report card F, Steph, for the summer. North Cross, you. Yeah, I thought so.

Carbs, a start. That's my nephew right. That's why he's my nephew. Come on, we need to move on. What are we giving, Bethel? I'm proposing to see. I've run the exam board for an extension on the exam. Oh, we like that.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm allowing Bethel a resit. You don't think he's actually... I don't think we have enough data. He's not submitted enough papers. My issue is, what, I'm reluctant to give him a grade because I don't think we just don't have enough data.

We're sending him back to school? Yeah, literally. Okay. He's reciting the whole year. Yeah, that's a great show. Lost year for Jacob Bethel. Because I can't give him a grade. That's the whole point.

You haven't beaten enough. I like that. That is the best compromise we've come up with. It's, thank heavens he's on our... Yes. Or another panel. otherwise he'd be sat there with a D wondering why he's got to

I'm going to leave perhaps the best well I'm suggesting the best till last so let's head to a more middle of the road slightly controversial character in Zach Rawley now Zach Crawley is a sort of person that sends the fans berserk

and he also he gets the England management saying things that rile people so you get this phrase he's an impact player and an impact opener, which is, and you should see Carbbs his eyes right now, they have rolled to the back of his head.

As a proper opener, Michael Carberry, the idea that your role is sometimes an impact role and that that's good enough. The implication has always been that Zach can get four single figure scores and then hit a fabulously impactful 80 or 100 and then go back to four single figure scores. That's not probably how you view the role of an opener, is it? No comment. So I think that's a definite no, isn't it? Well, I mean, look, I'm only playing around.

I mean, I just think some of the stuff that comes out of him is just ridiculous. Your job is to score runs. You can't tell me that you're happy getting one score in a series. You know, that's your job. It's your job as a batter. The frustration for me with watching Zach Crawley is he doesn't seem to be the kind of player that gets better after, How many tests he played? 50-something test matches nearly.

59. 59. He plays the game the same way 59 times. And that's the worry for me. The dismissals are the same. There's no improvement. You'd like to think someone, I never got to that territory, but you'd like to think 59 games.

You'd like to watch him back and think, okay, well, he's starting to figure out a method. You know, those silly dismissals, those brass shots are starting to, you know, there's a little bit of thinking going on. There just doesn't seem to be any improvement. Yes, we know what he can do when all the planets align. I'm not taking that away from him

and yes, he's a very destructive player when he gets going. But I think to open a batting you have to understand that that's a responsibility. That settles the dressing room. And for me looking forward to this Ashes series,

I mean, look, Australia had their problems top order as well. I think think sometimes the series can be won or lost just simply if you're looking at respective top threes. Someone like Crawley can just start to develop a little bit more of an understanding of opening the batting when the ball is moving. You can't just stand there trying to trade all the time. There's times where you have to just rein it in a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, himself and duck it, I think, you know, yeah, look, they go about it in their own way, but I think they can be effective. but that for me is the issue with Zach Crawley's that I don't see that improvement we're getting that same there was one innings wasn't there at Headingley but the heading leave where they chased the runs in the second innings that I'd like to see more of that yeah I could because then we went to Lords and he was sprinting down the pitch trying to try to whack Bummer off his length I just want to suggest that when we discuss Crawley we've got to kind of discuss him

in the round of Duckett because where we had Pope and Bethelers somehow intertwined I think what the management might argue is that Crawley and Duckett are more than the sum of their parts so whilst your criticism is entirely valid don't see a different Crawley perhaps what they see is an opening pair that is

it is actually as impactful as good at England pair as things that have had since Strouse and Cook and they've been trying to replace the Strauss Cook partnership well that's definitely the case isn't it they're the best opening partnership as in that their performances over a consistent period of time. And he's part

of that. So even if he is only averaging 30 odd and Duckett's often the more productive partner they do come as a pair, don't they? They average more together than Cook and Strauss did. Really? Yeah. So the average partnership for Crawley and Duckett is 46 and a half. What was

carbs and cookie? Is that a noun? Bear with me. I've just lost my page. Oh, sorry. But they are the fifth most prolific opening pair for England of all time. What is their average? 46 and a half. That's pretty good, isn't it?

You take that, yeah. It's tricky, isn't it? It's very, very tricky because you look at the raw numbers of Zach Crawley. He averages 32 in his test career, or maybe less. 31 in his test career. He averaged 32 this summer. They are unremarkable numbers, clearly, for someone who's played 59 test matches. In a way, they are remarkable because he's played 59 test matches.

Well, yes. But then you look at that partnership and the family. that it lays for what is England's strength, which is numbers 4, 5, 6, 7, then therefore are they doing their job for the team? And they're doing it at pace as well? Yeah, yeah. I mean, their strike rate must be higher than any of the other contenders for England's best opening pairing. So I want us to do Crawley and Duckett in the round because what this season has done is sort of confirm with Duckett off the back of a pretty decent champion's trophy.

No one else had a decent champion's trophy, really, for England, particularly. He did, and there was talk about how he was possibly the best all-format opener England have had for a very long time. He was scoring runs in test matches, scoring runs in 50 over cricket. He was contributing in T-20s. He was so ever-present that eventually, they won't call it burnout, but he looked absolutely exhausted. And they had to let him go.

You don't have to do the T-20s. This has just gone on too much. Well, I'm glad they made that. decision actually. I'm glad that even after one game of a series that they noticed that and changed it. But he got 11 off 30 didn't he? It was the most unducket-like innings. Yes. And I'm

glad that they recognised that that was the case and they've stood a few of those guys down because they've noticed the mental and physical fatigue that a long, hard summer where all five test matches went to five days against India. Yeah, I think that was a good decision. Because I would

see, I would give the partnership B-plus I would give Crawley a B-minus and I'd give Duckett an A-minus. Do you know what I mean? I'd be pretty happy with that. Just going back to Crawley specifically, him averaging 32 against India, I'll go back to the point of

if he averages 32 in the ashes, England can win the ashes and England would take that performance. And Carbs's point of the opener setting the tone in the ashes. Well, in the last away ashes, Rory Burns was bowled by the first ball of the series and you could have said the result was almost confirmed at that point

and England's approach to the ashes was set by Zach Crawley from the first ball of the last home series. When he hit it for fourth the rest of cover. And I think to win in Australia you have to take the game to Australia and in 10-11 clearly the styles of players were

different but the way that we played the game and the way that we went about warm-up and the intensity about it and everything that came with it was geared towards winning and puffing your chest out and not taking a backward step in different manners to

the way that these guys will do it but I see that partnership and the way that they will play their cricket has potentially put in Australia on the back foot which I think very few teams go to Australia and do them okay so I'm going to come to you Carbs because you've got stronger

views on these the matters of openings and opening batters I made a I made a rather woolly proposal which I quite like of course you liked it came out your mouth well that's not always the case although as Oscar Wilde did famously say how do I know what I think until I hear what I say

I also feel that carbs is like our moderator as well I do he's the most the voice of reason he's the most sage of a lot of us he's great hears it's wisdom yeah so what are you going to give what are you going to give Duckett and Cordia let's have your mark for each of them I'll start with the partnership I'll agree with

what you guys say I think look in terms of the aura they've created I think that's something rare that England's not really had an opening partnership that people think what is a safe score to be chased down? And I think once you have that, it's very powerful.

So from that side of things, I'm going to mark them a little high. I'm going to say yeah, B-minus, just allowing for the fact that it's not always the most consistent of approaches or outcomes, should I say. The approach is consistent. But

then you're asking me to grade I think Duckett through the summer has been pretty good overall I think of the two he's been a lot more consistent so I'll give Duckett an A-minus Crawley for me I'm going to give him a B-minus I think that's... I'd give Duckett a solid A He averaged over 50 in that series against India and against those bowlers I think is deserving of a solid A

but again aligned with what Steph says I think there are players who will deserve higher marks than Ben Duckett, even though he averaged 15. Looking forward to them, crumbs. Well, it's obvious who it is is, though. I wonder. Let's not ruin it. It may spoil it.

Who else could there be? I think we've locked those in. Okay, well, that's very good because we got rid of Duckett and Crawley in one fell swoop there. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters, and a roof load up to 300 kilograms.

Learn more at landrover.ca. America is changing, and so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm a smachalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, so now let's go to a contentious area in the side. Showa Bashir. Contentious, perhaps because he's so young, but he broke a record this year, broke Finney's records, the youngest man to take 50. Test match wickets. His average is still extremely modest, but, you know, Ashley Giles made a very fine career with a bowling average of 40

and starred in a very famous 2005. Battered at 8, though, didn't he? He did batte at 8. And caught in the gully. He showed great bravery show of Bashir, bowling with, and fielding, most importantly, not so much of bowling, but fielding. He came out to field, but the game was getting

a little bit twitchy at Lords, and he pulled off a couple of stops on the boundary with his, with one hand, absolutely knackered. and his right hand still working and of course maybe a bit fortuitously but it doesn't matter

he took the winning wicket he's obviously beloved by the set-up they love his height they love his potential and they love evidently his competitive spirit Stefan he's a favourite with the management

but really how has his summer gone and he's only test matches we're talking about with Bashir so it's quite a simple one because he didn't play that many because he doesn't got injured Showy Bashir was the benefit of one of those old cricketing adages of you become a better player when you're out of the side and he definitely looked a better bowler for England when he was out of the side

because they were able to take a look at the other option and the option that a lot of people have been asking for in Liam Dawson and rather like Olly Pope and Zach Crawley Liam Dawson turned out to be exactly what we thought he would be you know a steady left arm spinner who could contribute useful runs down the order but not necessarily someone who's going to win a test match with the ball one thing that england love about bashir is his temperament in that he fits in very well with the way that england wants their bowlers to attack and therefore as the off spinner in that team you could really leak runs and that doesn't seem to phase bashear too much let's not forget the performance here against Zimbabwe

when he sort of talked to us a little bit about the technical tweaks that he'd gone through in his action he was getting a little bit closer to the stumps he wasn't drifting down leg side quite so much the problem that Bashir had in the start of the India series is he didn't look massively effective in that unless the India batters were trying to get after him he didn't look like taking a wicket I think his eight wickets in the first

two test matches were all sort of caught in the deep or a weird caught and bald or a stumped down They were aggressive shots, weren't they? Yeah, and it was a shame from Bashir's point of view, actually, he looked to be bowling at his best against India. He just got Kail Rahul caught at slit with quite a nice dipping off break before he suffered that finger injury. And his impact to take the wicket of Saraj,

the last ball of the Lord's test was immense. That is ultimately what made sure that England didn't lose the series. That put them two-one up. You're going to ask me for a grade, aren't you? Well, I'm not going to ask you for it yet, I'm going to ask Finney next because I think he's actually a really hard guy to assess and to give a grade to because he might well be the best option England have got. Jack Leach would also spring to mind, but, you know, Somerset haven't used him.

He went off to play for Glamorgan and pulled up no trees there. So when he then came into the international setup, that appears to be his happy place. And he appears to take instruction very, very well. But he doesn't set the heart racing, Finney, does he? and yet is he doing as good a job as England need he can do? How are we to assess Shoah Bashir? I would deem myself considered and I listen to people when they talk about players and Ricky Ponting when he was working on the test matches

was asked about show Bashir and he said he would 100% play the test matches in Australia if I was captain or coach of England. Be sure that Ricky's not working good? Well it could well be but you know. I thought he was being sincere I thought he was being sincere and say that going into the ashes that he probably is the person in line

to be that spinner and yeah when we're talking about assessing him I think you have to bear in mind that India are excellent players of spin and even better players of spin on pitches that aren't spinning that much if you were to put there's a very real prospect

he won't play in the first test I think as well what you think they'll play Bethel as a spin option and then four seamers whether or not they play Bethel number three or Raleipope, I think is entirely separate. No, I think Beth a little lower down. But then you'd have to lose someone else. You can't play 12.

Yeah, you'd have to rely on Ben Stokes. I think it's a real, I think that will be given some serious consideration, especially if your pace attack is, does have wood in it, who would be coming back from, he'd be his first test match in 18 months, a Joffa Archer that you might want to look after a little bit, and not knowing how much Ben Stokes can bowl in that test match, I would not be surprised at all

if England play four front line seamers in Perth they might do but let's not get too far ahead of us with ourselves we're trying to find a grade for Shire A grades, great, sorry, yes, grades, grades, greats and before you give it I want Michael Carberry's assessment

because you haven't had a chance to talk about Shai of Bashir, yeah? The thing I'll be asking myself is if you're not going to take Shai Bashir to the Ashes who jumps out at the moment as being the next best option and it's a punt, isn't it? It's Ray and our

or something like that. Right. Rayan Ahmed has played pretty much the same amount as Shaya Bashir. So Shai Bashir is a project. He wasn't picked as someone off the back of 50 first class games, having taken 50 wickets. He was picked because, again, rightly or wrongly, Ben Stokes liked what he saw, he liked his height. He bowled one good ball on Twitter. On TikTok or something like that.

And that was, you know, yeah, right look, rightly or wrongly. So for me, it seems very odd then to say, very odd then to suddenly are we get, and this is what I think England have to get right, going to the ashes, is making sure that in here they are secure in what team they're going to pick, right?

What bowl, pick your best bowlers. If Shabashir is your project, then for me, his learning curve has to be in the ashes. So are we going to grade him on his learnings, aren't we? I think if we're talking about Pope and Crawley having the sort of summers that we would have expected and maybe not

answering questions, that we had at the start of the summer. Bashir not there as well? So he's a bit of a B minus? I mean, this is amazing, isn't it? Because we've had what we think has been an amazing series. Two All against India. Oh, and it turns out we've learned absolutely nothing from all of this.

But would say, 25 days of cricket. Two All would suggest that England at around about where they were at the beginning of the summer. Absolutely. I guess it might do. I agree with that. I mean, it wasn't, sorry, to cut in this. But, you know, no one really, Joe Root aside, no one's had a great summer. I mean there's been good performances

Sure, there's been Match winning performance But it hasn't been that consistent You know, the England test team You're not looking at that and I'm going Yeah, that's a team Would you, sorry, would you be grading this differently though If England had managed to find seven more runs

In the Oval test or they didn't Or if Chris Wokes hadn't dislocated a shoulder I'm dealing was what's there England played that test match with 10 men I mean it does seem slightly unfair to say If I had teammates that could catch I'd average under 30 in test cricket.

Oh, yeah. Almost certainly true. Boom. Yeah, but if you'd had DRS, you'd be averaging near a 40. I've played my whole career with DRS, thank you. Yeah, I don't know. But then you look at Bashir in the India series.

It's at 10 wickets at 54. Yeah, it doesn't feel, they're not exciting numbers, aren't they? But I would say 10 wickets at 54 is not as good a return as 100 and... that impacted a win and an average of 34. He played two and a half test matches, and those first two test matches were run-filled

when India's spinners didn't have much of an impact either. Or Jadaja, he looked more effective than Jadaja. Absolutely. At the point he came out of the series, he had more wickets than Ravi Jadaja. It's very hard this, isn't it? That's why I'm sticking with my B-minus. I think he's pretty much where he was at the start.

P-minus is the proposal. We'll go to Phiddy first, and then we get the moderator. Yes, I would agree. I agree with that. Moderator, B-minus, stick it on the card. Stick it on the card, let's move on. Right. Now I want to go to one of the, well, he was an unequivocal success story of this campaign,

but a little bit like, in a way, what happened to Joffre Archer, Jamie Smith's summer was stellar and magnificent, but... Until it wasn't. Well, until a man who does not keep wicket for his county played five, five-day test matches, and was out there much longer than his opponents because India scored at a slower rate so he was out there keeping for an awful lot longer he scored an enormous number of runs

he was part of a record-breaking summer for wicket keepers from both sides of his sharp punt and himself and then by the end of it by that oval test match when England just needed another seven runs I have never seen a man as good as Jamie Smith look so completely frazzled in that last innings his feet went nowhere his hands were wafting at a ball

It was like he could hardly see it anymore. A lot of the players were broken by that series. It was a long, hard series. A load of people walking out with arms in slings and legs in boots and hands in plaster and heaven knows what else. He was sort of part of the attritional nature of that. But England have chosen to take a top border batter who can keep wicket and make him a number seven

who keeps wicket for a side that fields for a hell of a long time because of the way they play their cricket. And they've kind of reaped what they've sown there a little bit. He's a bit better than can keep wicket, isn't he, as a wicket keeper? I'd say he's been an excellent wicket. He has been. I would say he's been very impressive as a wicket keeper. But to your point, on the Saturday of the Oval Test,

and I think actually you and I, Finney, were talking outside, watching Jamie Smith keep wicket on that day, and he could barely move his feet to take the ball behind the stumps. He was sort of flopping onto the ball. He looked absolutely shattered. And he's got like a six or seven-month. old baby that takes out

you as well trust me how's that sleep like average 62 with the bat against across the series against India but a healthy percentage of his 434 runs came from 184

not out I think Smith is going to be a huge talking point during the ashes and that is actually quite a key battle Smith versus Kerry because if Smith has struggled

and his performances have tailed off across an India series the first time he's been asked to keep wicket in a five test series then the same thing is coming again yeah and the heat obviously the long attritional days that you can find yourself

having in Australia the only thing that I think will help him is that the carry in the bounce because he's quite a big guy he's taught for a wicket keeper and an imposing figure as a batter at the crease I think the carry are not having to catch lots around his ankles or deal with a wobbling ball behind the stumps

I think could help him out physically when it comes to that. But you have to factor in the fact that you're going to have a few days where you're chasing a lot of leather and it's going to be 40 degrees. There's absolutely no case at all for... What, Ben, folks coming back? No, no, no, no, no. Sharing it where you were going to. Sharing it with Ollie Pope.

Ollie Pope's been made to do this job before. What, and innings each? And if, well, I mean, I've always wondered why they didn't do that. When Bearstone and Butler were in the side, I didn't quite understand why they didn't do that then. Well, because you have a synergy with your slipboard. I know, but I'm sort of thinking here actually if you rest and rotate fast bowlers

there might be a case for halfway through the series Pope does the third test and Smith still bats He's all bats at three and Pope moves to seven Funny beasts wicketkeepers though They want to know what they're doing And who's taking the gloves And it can be a bit of an affrontier if I don't

I don't get that impression from Smith No I don't I would say he doesn't think that deeply I'm surprised no one's tried that yet with the amount of the way that the game has moved on and the amount of keeper batters that there are naturally knocking around, I'm surprised that no one has tried that as a tactic yet. I think it's radical, obviously,

and as a result, cricketers will poo-poo it. It's certainly radical. But it makes sense to me, because what we witnessed at the end of that series was exactly that. I mean, there is no denying it that Jamie Smith was a totally different batter at the Oval from the man he was at Heddingley.

In his county career, he didn't keep Wicket a great deal, So to get him to do high-intensity matches that last five days in the most heavily bold series in 50-60 years, you just might want to think about it. That's all I'm saying. I suppose the thing to say is the way that Australian pitches have been playing, we might not have many five-day testers in the ashes.

And again, I just can't see him producing. I think they'll want to produce not as spicy decks. But look, let's get back to Smith because, look, I think we all agree. He's a stellar prospect. He had some brilliant interventions, had some crazy moments like when he got out trying to hit his third six in and over off the very last ball before a new ball was due, which felt kind of didn't really read the moment awfully well. But, you know, that is basball. We are not there to judge that methodology, unfortunately.

He's playing within the system and he's playing to the system and he's played it very well. And did well in whiteball cricket. I want to propose an A for Jamie Smith, notwithstanding that. his last memory of the test series won't have been great and maybe I have to take him down a notch in A-minus because he still hasn't quite mastered 50 over cricket he's been put in at the top of the order they hope that that would be a solution

he's not quite finding his feet in one day cricket yet so I might propose an A-minus but he's such an impactful player and he's scoring these runs at number seven for heaven's sake I think is he A I move on A I had a B in my mind B for Smith for someone who average 62 I've just said though

much of that average came from 1-184 not out which was a very important innings but in the clutch moment of the final test of series when England could have won it 3-1 which by your own admittance was a man dead on his feet

but that's test cricket isn't it that is the point that's also a fair point well you're going B he's going A, carbs you're the moderator I quite like James Smith personally I like I like the collective package.

I think he gives us a dynamic feel coming in where he does. I think I agree with Finney. I think he does a more than decent job as a keeper. For someone who doesn't keep for his county, I think he does a decentish job. We're not often sitting there talking about Jamie Smith's keeping. I think when you're in that position as a fan, that's usually signs that the guy's doing a pretty good job.

So I'm going to sit on the side of an A-minus. A-minus. I'm going to take that and move on. Harry Brook is our next one. A stellar player for England. We're all very, very excited by him, towards the back end of the summer, having played every single game that England has played.

He too has started to look like he's, I don't know whether he's lost fluency perhaps, but just searching a little bit more. And I think this is possibly a result of playing every single game. So I'm going to kind of park how I feel about, the very back end of the summer and try and get back more to the meat of the summer because he's part

of this powerhouse batting line up we're all very very excited by Harry Brooke let's start with you carbs as the batter what do you reckon we're going to have we learned anything about Harry Brooke at least because it seems to me that we've learned almost nothing about anybody except possibly Jamie Smith so far this summer

Harry Brooke I think he's he plays some very eye-catching shots from eye-catching in innings at times. I think is there a case in point to suggest that maybe people have started to work him out a little bit? He's not known for

patience. No. Sometimes taking the best options. I mean he got out at a very, very annoying moment for England in that Oval Test match because they had basically won the game and he took a very aggressive option at that point, but he was on a role. I don't know how you assess that.

But like Stefan said, that's the art of test cricket. You know, you've got to read situations. I think going to Australia I think for me I think the one area for me he has to conquer is the ball

the short ball right bigger grounds bounce your wickets I don't think just relying on I'm going to clear the fielder I think he's got to work

that that side of things out a little bit better you know what I like about him he takes the game on I think he again has that he holds that little bit of fear factor to be able to knock the lights of Hazelwoods off his length

which is not many people in the world can do if I had to give him a grade A minus You asked Dan what have we learnt about Harry Brooke this summer Because we might have had a few players That we haven't learned much about Well what we have learned is England made the right decision And making him the white ball captain

Because if you think there was all that debate At the start of the summer Is who is going to become the white ball captain Much Jost Butler resigned There was some chat of whether or not It was going to be Ben Stokes And a lot of people Probably quite rightly in the end

We're saying that would just be too much And I think actually he's grown into the role I think his tactics are good I think he where he carries himself are great. Quite funky to watch, isn't it? Yeah, very different shapes of feel. I love his very straight mid-on. Yeah, me too.

Great position. I think as a journalist, he's going to give us some great copy because he's very, very honest. And I think what we've also learned, without a shadow of doubt, is he is England's next test captain. Wow. I think he is.

Big call, so not the vice captain. No, I don't think it will be Olly Pope. So why isn't he vice captain? Because Olly Pope was vice captain before Harry Brooke came into the team, I think, as one thing. Some people make very good vice captains and Ollie Pope might be one of those

And there is also a scenario Where Harry Brooke captains in the Ashes It could be. Could be. Where Ollie Pope might not be in the team Where Ben Stokes hasn't completed any of his last four test series Playing for England. Interesting.

So England might need a captain at some point And Harry Brooke, I think after Ben Stokes Is England's arguably second most important player Across the Winter as a whole When you think they're going into an Away Ashes series and then there's a T20 World Cup of which he is captain. He's certainly going to be England's busiest cricketer again

after he's been England's busiest cricketer this summer. Finney, quickly, because I think we might be moving on shortly. Give us a grade, unless you've got something different to tell us about Harrybrook. Yeah, F. I would get Harry Brook a name. I'm feeling that too. Right, we've got two big names to look at.

A start, move on. Joe Root. There's almost nothing to say about Joe Root. He's got 39 test centuries now. is the second leading run score of all time. He's only 2,400 runs away from Satchin Tindulka. Three ODI-100s in the summer as well. Three ODI-100s.

It's brilliant having him back in the England setup, isn't it, for ODIs? He was out of it for a little while, didn't play in 2024. I'm not sure he played an ODI in 2024. It went a very long time, yeah. They look a much more solid outfit. Everything that's been said about Joe Root doesn't need repeating, does it, except that he just feels like he's playing not as well as ever, better than ever. He seems to be more in control

of his game than ever before he knows exactly what it is he's doing. And if he keeps scoring runs at the rate he scored in the last year and a half, he will go past Satchin Tendorca in the fifth Ashes test match at the Oval in 2027 which will send this country completely berserk. I'm

proposing an A star. Has anybody got anything they wish to add to Joe Root? Is there a category above A? Above A star? Was it Matthew Hayden said the other day if Joe Root doesn't get 100 during this Ashes service? He's going to walk around the MCG naked. It's a tricky one because I quite like to see that.

I really would. It just his hat. Just that massive great pink cat. Do we all agree with this? Yes. I think we're doing. So let's finish off with the skipper. Well, I'd say finish off.

Before we get to skipper very briefly, have we got any mentions? Because we haven't done any bowlers. Exactly. It's been very battered. Like everything, like broadcasting, like it is very batter. Broadcasting, he says. The man who commentates summarises rights.

We've talked about Archer. We've talked about Archer and we've talked about Show Bashir. But we haven't discussed the wider bowling group. That's because it's been a bit messy this summer. Bryden Cars would be the man that I think has been most regular. And of course, Chris Wokes. So you've got Cars and Wokes who are important to report on, I would say. Then at the back end, you've also got Josh Tongue, who's in and out the side,

took a lot of wickets, got a nickname. When you get a nickname in an England team, that's pretty good. He was the Hoover, wasn't he? The mop. The mop for picking up all the... Rabbit stew. Rabbit stew, exactly. You love a bit of rabbit stew, Phiddy.

I heard you talk about how much you cared for rabbit stew. So, how are we going to assess these bowlers? I think, rather than a report card necessarily in great depth, try and rank for me the bowlers, the fast bowling, coterie. Wokes, tongue, cars. am I missing anyone Atkinson Atkinson Atkinson came in quite late

So how do we Have we learned anything about those four We seem to have learned something about Jamie Overton Which he doesn't want to play red ball cricket anymore No to be honest Because it was a very batter friendly summer Wasn't it? Chris Wokes it was great that he played all five test matches

His returns weren't amazing Were easy pitches to pole up Exactly so it's very very difficult to sit here And it's hard to learn When you're watching them play an edge bastard on those feather beds and that? What can you do? What can you learn? I don't really know. I think what we can say is as a unit,

England have got lots of different pace bowling weapons. And I think if you asked every one of us to say pick England's best three front-line seamers for a particular test match, we would all potentially come up with different answers, which says quite a lot actually about the quality of bowlers at their disposal and what all those bowlers are capable of at different times, I think what we're all just hoping, fingers crossed, that when I don't know that game of musical chairs ends

when the music stops that everyone is on the plane to the ashes fit and rare into it fit and rare in an amazing situation that would be yeah and all fit and raring to go on the 21st of November in Perth because for so long that just hasn't been the case the lip-smacking prospect of archerwood atkinson cars tongue all available all available and being able fit for selection would be great we've talked about all the bowlers there the man who had the most successful successful summer with the ball in his life is actually the captain now by the end of it he along with actually most of the teams most of the Indians and most of the English team were broken by a 25 day series but so he didn't make it quite to the finish line but I'm going to propose an A I had a pros an A for tactics for contribution for seeing that bowling back for the the passion the intensity I mean it's hard not to give him an A star really I want a star yeah I also agree with that I think

it highlighted this summer highlighted the importance of him as a fully fledged all rounder for the team as a talisman as a leader for his output with the ball the fact that he was bowling quicker than he has done in 10 years I think is his next quickest year with the ball was 10 years ago so yeah happy with A star and I'm just going to check with the moderator who's now at the back of the room he agrees with the A star for Ben Stokes oh he's thinking oh oh he might be giving it an A He might be just be giving it an A. Oh, he's sitting on the fence. Well, I'm giving him an A, Stey, and I'm allowed to because I've got the microphone.

So, basically, it's a pretty good report card, but all concerned. And I think if they get those kind of reports at the back end of the ashes, England may well have regained them, which would be something else, wouldn't it? That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on BBC Sounds, so you never miss an episode, including the latest no-balls with Kate Cross and Alex Hartley. And you can keep up to date with all the things. Cricket by following at BBC TMS on X and at BBC Cricket on Instagram.

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But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redmond in London, and this is the global story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.