Test Match Special - The first time Sri Lanka came to town

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

Simon Mann looks back to 1984, when Sri Lanka played their first ever test in England. At Lord's, England captain David Gower chose to bowl after winning the toss on a warm late summer's day, much to the delight of one of England's bowlers at the time - Jonathan Agnew. Sri Lankan batter Sidath Wettimuny gave Aggers, and the rest of England's bowlers, grief scoring 190 in his first innings on the way to leading the experienced side to draw. The three of them recall the first time Sri Lanka came to town for a test.

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Now, 40 years ago this week, Sri Lanka played their historic first test in England here at Lourdes. It came at the end of a summer in which England had suffered a 5-0 defeat to West Indies. But if they expected an easy ride against a team inexperienced in test cricket, they were very wrong. Very good square driver. Sidot, Wettamuni. Lovely, wristy strokes. This is a marvelous shot that really raced away to the boundary.

Very wide, but he got right across to it and right over it, and a tremendous shot. So, to this be history in the making, both of them coming in to bowl to Sidad Wettimuni, who hits him firmly up the back foot. It's going down to the Herburn boundary for four, and he has come back to the second. Fielded in fact by Agnew just in front of the fence,

but Siddhar Tewaterbury has become the first Sri Lankan ever to score a test hundred in England. That's gone through. So success then for Agnew and well-deserved two. Good delivery. It's the end of Ranatunga for 84, tying up a really substantial fourth-wicket stand here. And a well-deserved wicket this for Jonathan Agnes. just coming down the hill a little and hit it right at the top of that odd stump

just knocking the bail off it could so easily have gone over and shrivelled that one away and that's cleared the field of two for six more both of them having hard words there with David Gower I think David Gower in fact should be having hard words with both of them

it is very dark at Lords but that isn't putting Dullip Mendez off He's 98 not out now as Botham comes in from the pavilion end and he cuts it hard. It's going down to third man. Is he to get to get the two? Yes he is. He's coming back for the second as Agnew picks it up. And Mendez has completed an absolutely dazzling hundred.

Full of wristy, brilliant shots. The second Sri Lankan to get 100 on his first test appearance at Lords. And this has been a captain's inning power excellence. Sri Lanka 434 for four. Good shot. Four runs. Beautiful stroke from Amal Silver. And that's his hundred, his runner. De Silva goes through. Take two runs. Amel Silver, the wicket keeper.

It goes to 101, but Nica is three. It's 289 for seven. There are some very familiar commentary voices there and some familiar names playing as well. Sri Lanka had the best of a high-scoring draw with Sidat Wetamuni making 190. Duluth-Mendis a century and a 94. Arjuna Ranatunga, 84.

Wikiekeeper Amal Silva, second innings 100. England did have their moments with the bat, A century for Alan Lamb, half centuries for Chris Broad and David Gower. And Agers, among the wickets as well, dismissing Ranatunga and Aravinda de Silva. Those were a couple of high points from him. He did go around the park as well. Now, Agers is here, and so too is the England captain from that game, David Gower. And so too, I'm delighted to say, is Siddat Wetamuni.

He was the player of the match for his marathon 190. Welcome at all. So what was your overriding memory of that game? well I guess we wanted to come and create an impression in this country and the fact that we did do that was I think the most important thing for us because we just got tested us two years before that and it was important to come to the home of cricket and maybe show the world that we are going to be a team to reckon with

and a bit of context so Sri Lanka play a little bit of 11 test matches to that point. They'd lost eight, four of them by an innings, and they'd drawn three. And they did play England in their first ever test match in Colombo. And they were right in the game, actually, at one point. It looked, though, Schranker might cause an upset in that match. They were 113 for one in their second innings,

and I think it was six behind on firstings. They were right in the game. They ended up losing by seven wickets. So you came into that test match on quite a bad losing run, really. So what gave you some confidence that you could take England on? and do well against them well we were fortunate to have played some good count teams earlier so we were familiar with the conditions i think that helped and the fact that the wicket was very good too and the sun was out and i think that meant a lot to us sri lankan yes we'll move on to that

in a moment the sun being out no we're going to move on to it now i'm not going to delay anymore so The wicket was good, Siddat said, and the sun was out. So when the coin went up, or when the decision came to David to make a decision, you said, we're going to have a bowl first, David. You just lost 5-0 to West Indies. That was the blackwash. Very good context to mention. Yes, there's some context there.

Okay, what were you thinking then? Well, there are times where one has to deflect. And I'm going to attempt this, probably against the odds, because Jonathan's memory might be at odds with mine. No, it's not. I've vaguely remembered. 40 years for this article. I vaguely remember coming to Lord's beautiful sunny day

and in the nets behind us on the nursery ground. I feel like both of them were swinging it round corners with a suitably doctored ball. You were probably swinging it as well John. I think it was. Well I think you pretended. Ellison, Richard Ellison, one of the finest swing bowlers ever to play for England who would a year later would destroy

Australia and I was persuaded and I regret this bitterly. I was persuaded to say wheel bowl. Sorry, I persuaded by whom? Or by both them, by who was Chairman Slector? Was it May? Was it Peter? Peter May? I think Paul Down to...

Even Peter said, Captain, I think it's a swinging day. All these comments, you know, at the end of a frazzled year after he'd been trounced by the West Indies, confidence was a little low in the decision-making department. And it was a delight to watch CEDA bat so beautifully on this flattest of pitchers on the most gorgeous of late summer days. I've mentioned the short boundary either. Short boundary. Both and both and both and both and both. a pile of, probably tried to, you know, bolt him and he bounces.

Agnew, of course, bowed beautifully. You know, the shortage of talent there was a bit of a problem. And anyway, it's very nice to see that again, looking so well and fit. Untroubled by the efforts of scoring 190s. It's an absolute delight to be with him. See that. Could you believe they put you in? No.

Well, I was hoping that we'll bet first. And my captain was also not sure what to do. and I was pleading with him saying if you win the toss bat and we were lucky we were put in you know I have to say I'm delighted to be here too

with Aggie I have been a couple of times but with David I haven't and in my mind David was the most elegant left hand ever to date but you didn't get to watch him back for about three days because England were in the field for quite a long time

David what the pace the game is different 491 for seven declared. At what point did you think, I'm not sure about this, I wouldn't mind to just rewind the clock. About 10 past 11. 10 minutes then. Both of them was bowling it dead straight.

The ball wasn't swinging. You know, the humidity had obviously disappeared. The conditions had changed. If we'd played on the nursery ground, we'd have bowled him out for a hundred. It was, I think we've got the gist of it. This was probably a mistake. But as I say, you know,

They did back well. You're right. We played the inaugural test match against them in Colombo a couple of years earlier, which was a good contest. Unpars got involved, I think. It was quite interesting. And we were very... In what way, David?

I wouldn't dare... I wouldn't dare say. We had to work quite hard to get the win. That was my turn to get the runs. So, yeah, that was... But it was very interesting for me. For instance, I've been to Sri Lanka a couple years before that and seen a lot of the guys like...

Roy Dias and DeMel and all these guys who were playing proper cricket at that stage to gain that test status. So when we went for the test match, a lot of the same players were there trying to prove again, as Cedar said just now, that they are worthy of the position.

And they were. So it's nice to have been around at the start of something rather special, actually. Did you feel really ready for test cricket? As a country? We did. We did. In fact, I felt that even in the 70s, we had some super players.

But we just didn't have the infrastructure to support international cricket at that stage, I think. And that was one of the complaints that the ICC or MCC had at that time, that we didn't have proper infrastructure. As for ability, I really believed that in the 70s we had some super players who were unlucky not to play test cricket. Yeah. I mean, you actually look at that match, Aravinda the Silver played in it, and Ranatunga play.

two players who went on to be greats, really, at Sri Lankan Creek. So it's important to remember, you know, coming to that game, it's easier to look back on Shrank and Crite with hindsight, you know, win the World Cup and all those great years they have, but they were sort of kind of feeding their way into international cricket at that point, only a couple of years in and hadn't won a test match. So, so, Agers, when David won the toss and put Shalank career, what did you think?

Well, I was a bit disappointed. I mean, look, I was excited about playing the game, because David and most of the players in that team were pretty shell-shocked from the 5-0 shalacking by the West Indies. Did you feel like that, David, as well? Did you feel a bit shell-shocked? Well, a little bit, but one of the things you have to learn to do, even if you've had a bad series,

which is just a bit of an understatement, we genuinely would have thought, okay, right, it's the final chance of that summer to compete and maybe win obviously we didn't but you know to put that behind you because you have to do that

whether you've had a bad tour in the Caribbean or Australia wherever you've been you start again and I dare say there was a bit of collateral damage from the West Indies shall lacking as I has put it but conditions were good

people still wanted to do well Lambe goddess hundred I mean I actually researched a little bit of this the other day found some stuff on YouTube which was sent through on X and I was playing all right you know it didn't look as

you know looking at those but see that he looks all right I felt all right was playing all right but when you've just given away 500 you need to make more than 55 so and the most ridiculous thing of that entire game was the second innings where both them

having not covered himself in glory in the first inning he's trying to bowl properly now bowled off spin and picked up six and that is the contrary That was a killer. Beggers' belief. In fact, again, I can feel for Agers there.

Agger's obviously here, his status at the game at the time had to try and bowl properly. Beefy comes on saying, well, give us that ball. I'll bowl offspin. Because he'd gone off in the first of things as well, if you remember. He went off for the bad back. That's why he came back and bowled offspin. But for you, Agers, it was a big opportunity.

Oh, massive. Because you played, what, one test match before? Well, the test, yeah, the week before it was. It was massive. I still couldn't quite believe I was playing it and also there was also that and I think if you look at some of the scores and like dear old Chris Tavare's innings

for instance 14 off 95 balls there was the tour to be selected immediately afterwards as well and so those of us who had just on us come in and didn't really feel like you were part of the whole set up that was quite a big pressure thing as well you knew that if you if you do well

you probably go on the tour if you didn't do well you probably wouldn't go on the tour which is what the case with me ah but we got you there you did in the end you did in the end a ball out that slipped on a bar of soap or something so I did get there in the end but you know all those sort of things you know part of it

I mean David's innings was it was in I mean 55 from 151 balls it was I mean that's a very ungower like innings too isn't it that the whole of England's innings it seemed to grind sort of ground to a halt looks better on highlights well England batted for 147 overs for 370

so that's all illustrated I mean there was the obligation when you're basically a long way behind when you start your first innings of the match there's the obligation to make sure that things didn't get worse so yes so some I mean yeah it was quite slow wasn't it

yeah it's not by your standards obviously you're doggedly resisting that everything in the Sri Lanka could throw at us so let's go back to Shranker's first things that for that four hundred and nine tag is you're opening the bowling yes and you're bowling to sit at what was you like to face sit at

well I had first I guess in 81 when we came on a pre-test tour and I remember I got some runs against him but he hit me on the head and I knew he could could be sharp especially when he bounced that was playing the Leicestershire against yes yes so and I was telling my mates as well you know this guy can be quick yeah it's extraordinary how there's some sort of canned laughter seems to be creeping in every time your name gets mentioned I know well they'd be been building up to this for a long time. But I didn't

remember that, but it is lovely. Just sort of fast forward a bit that Sid and I always meet up, but always good friends. You gave me a big hug we saw each other down there. It's a really lovely relationship that we have. And I'm also going to mention now before, I guess,

that we then went to Sri Lanka after this test match for an England A tour or B tour, where they called it in those days. Our first match was against him. and I wanted to get one wicket on that tour I didn't care if I didn't get any others I wanted S. Wetimuni

Because of what happened here He whacked him all around here We didn't whack me around He just carefully guided me around here First ball This is not an exaggeration as it said First ball of that match He nicked it straight to slip

We dropped it on naught And he got another hundred Well I thought it was Mark Nicholas But I think it That'll do That's a perfectly good story He thinks it's Martin Moxin It's a better story

if it's Nicholas. But the better part of the story I gave, which you haven't said, is after that delivery, the first delivery he came up to me and he said every dog has his day. I think sledge you said out, did I? And I smiled at it. And at the end of the day, I just

looked back at him and smiled. Yeah, it's actually a very green pitch that one. It was very great. It was very great. For Sri Lankan standards, yeah, but first ball, can you believe it. I mean, this Miss Man is my nemesis. But it has been a really lovely friendship. all the way through it.

You know, that's what sport's all about. You know, you respect each other. One day someone wins and, you know, it's just the way that it should be. But just before I ran in a bowl of first ball from the pavilion end and said the pitcher was down towards a tavern, he's ready, I'm ready. I'm about to run in and some demonstrators ran on. I said from the mound stand.

Ran on and invaded the pitch. Dickie Bourb was the umpire. And he got on a bit of a flap, as you can imagine. And so that was a bit of a strange start to proceedings, wasn't it? But that was the best thing that happened to me, because I still remember, as we were about to stop, these guys ran in. And I was getting really worried thinking, you know, is somebody going to assault me or something like that? And I moved towards the slipcorden, just feeling a little vulnerable. And believe it or not, David, you know, the whole pent-up pressure and all that just fizzled out because I was.

more concerned about what was happening and then when I went to bat I actually felt relaxed and all that adrenaline rush and all that seemed to have disappeared so I am eternally grateful for square driver beautiful square

driver and he played quite a few of them that's my main recollection of the way you play that day so it is through out towards point and cover point in that area there yeah I was surprised that England kept bowling there.

Well, we told it was swinging. That was why. We kept pitching it up. Maybe that's why. Do you remember that? Was that your innings of your life? I guess so. I guess it's maybe

maybe the more celebrated, I would think. There have been some tougher, tougher games and tough times, but that was good. And I was delighted to play with these guys because, you know, I don't think you'll remember, David. Your first tour

to Sri Lanka was with Derek Robin. I do remember very well, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I was just out of school myself, and I played against you. And I wouldn't recognize him then. He had frizzy, curly hair. You could see those... Saltzman's

just wandered in. Blue eyes. If you want to see the before and after whiskey. I still picture him with curly, long hair like a nest of some sort there were several wild birds in there

but still when he batted I always had the impression that he was batting in his sleep he was so I was I think he was most of the time yes he was so relaxed

his early starts 11 o'clock starts I know good for you I mean no I remember that tour very well I mean Derek was a philanthropist he took these sides mixed sides of experience and youth

and I was in those days the youth part of the youth and I remember we'd been to Singapore to Hong Kong to Malaysia had a lot of fun for four weeks we got to Sri Lanka and Derek said to us right this is now important you know these guys

are good you know they're heading towards test cricket literally had the lecture now you've got to play properly so none of that sort of lacks easy relaxed you know doesn't really matter stuff it was now we've got to take them on and play properly and that's where we first saw you and I say Dias de Mel

all these guys that were making a strong case for Sri Lanka as a country to play test cricket and making a really good fist of it So that was the first indication I'd seen of how good it could be. Hence, it was, what, 77, I think that. So it's, what, five years later, that first test match happened in Colombo after our tour of India. A very dull tour of India in 81.82. But yes, I mean, the basis, the very strong basis was already in place in those years.

Absolutely. In the 70s, we had some really good players. And I really feel sorry that they could. They didn't get the opportunity to actually play test cricket. The likes of Anurath and a cone, so many. My brother, Sunil, he opened in the 70s, and they just didn't get that chance. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender. with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. So there's no question of you underestimating Sri Lanka when they came here in 84 then. Because you'd seen the talent, or did it feel a little bit like after the Lord Mayor's show after West Indies? Well, it was going to be very different compared to West Indies for sure.

But, I mean, I don't remember what one. wonderful words I would have issued the night before over a glass of Lynch barge and a fine piece of steak. Ian was going to bounce everybody out, wasn't he? Is this true, David? I mean, I guess I said this a few times. He said, well, you went down the list, bounced him,

bounced him, banks. Were team meetings really like that? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I mean, for instance, not just Sri Lanka, but on that tour of India, 82, we played in Madras as it was, Chennai now.

And he kept trying to bounce it there. He kept disappearing. Yaspal Sharman. Oh, yes. Yaspel took him on and kept plonking him on top of the roof at deep square legs. So it wasn't the first time Ian had tried to impose himself on an opposition batting lineup. But as I mentioned, the tavern boundary was quite short. It wasn't a quick pitch, as far as I remember.

So he disappeared. He just disappeared. I remember that steward throwing the ball back of the man's dad at all the time. What happened there? Well, there was like a steward just sort of took it upon himself just a field in this position because Dilip Mendez who got 100 as well, just kept picking him out really when he bounced him. It kept disappearing into the man stand. Well, no, the answer is we wouldn't have underestimated.

Yeah, partly as you say, because I had first-hand experience of how they could play. So, yeah, going back to that toss thing, you know, it was obviously the hope, misguided hope, was to get an early advantage. You know, playing it lost the first time for the ball is going to swing. maybe but maybe but there may be disappeared as I say by about 10 past 11 having said all that um

yeah I mean we were desperate we were very keen desperate to try and finish that summer on a good note and we had as I as a reminder India coming up in the winter so that was not going to be easy so you wanted to it turned out actually to be one of your triumphs

it was a triumph yes absolutely and I'm incredibly proud of another day we can talk about India assassinations and, you know, political problems and all that, all the stuff that happened on that 84-85 tour. But at the end of that, to come at that on top was very, very special. I think there's a golden rule, to be honest. Assumptions are dangerous.

Taking things to granted is incredibly dangerous. Confidence is a vital ingredient of any cricket team, any individual playing cricket. So you want to believe you can win, and you want to start a game believing you're going to win. but you always have to respect the fact that I mean and talking of team meetings I mean the number of times I've been through team meetings where you've had that thing right

we'll get him out this we'll get him out that way you get 100 I'll get a double 100 we'll get 600 bowl them out for 150 twice win by innings and 300 most of the time all these fantastic and fantasy team meetings disappear in a space of half an hour because the opposition actually has had the same meeting

in the different room the same night before and they have their own plans and you have to respect the fact that cricket is a great game because plans change on a dime. They change in 10 minutes, half an hour, 40 minutes. Everything can change when you have to reassess conditions and when, unfortunately, someone plays well against you. So those are all factors that make the game still very, very special.

What were you saying in your team meetings set out before the game? Can you remember? What was the sort of mindset going into the match? Well, I must say I still remember we had a dinner hosted by the... BCA there. Well, BCCA there. I think

in those days. And I still remember our president who was no more, Mr. Garmini Dysanayaka. It's such a fantastic speech. Your chairman actually came and said

how does one follow Mr. Dysanaka? And I used to say, you know, we felt so good. We were walking tall at the end of that. It was an inspirational speech. It was.

an inspirational speech and we somehow felt that we had been playing well in the pre-test games and we were fairly confident that we could do well and it was one of those days things and it wasn't just you as well i mean there was so many of your colleagues i mean take people through the game a little bit about what happened in it you know you got 190 but and amal got a hundred in the second he was keeping wicket wasn't he and then he got went out and got 100 and that was i think Arrwinda's debut, you know, he would attack all the time. He would attack all the time. And I remember he just came and got two or three, fours,

and then threw his wicket away. He got an extremely fine delivery, would you edge to Paul Downton? Yeah, threw his wicked away anyway. He was that kind of guy, even in his very first tour, which was that tour, he just didn't care who was bowling he would want to attack the game before that he and I put a failure you know we got about

160 runs in a stand for the third wicket and he just came and belted everybody so you could see that he was going to be a really special player just don't think how old would he have been in that test match in 1984 so a real a real youngster

and obviously you know no size at all but you You thought then, yeah, here's a really high-class player in the making. Absolutely. He had a lot of time to play. It was 58 now. And he was...

48? 18, yeah. He was very cocky about his batting. He just wanted to take you on. And he showed it even then. And Arjuna Ranatunga, I mean, we saw him as time went on, you know, really feisty real champion of Sri Lankan cricket and fight,

fought the corner. What was he like then? Oh, the same even then. As a youngster, he was very, very, very, Feistee and very aggressive in his approach. And he was ranked as a really good player. I remember Sir Gary came to Sri Lanka for a coaching spell and he raved about him. He had seen him as a schoolboy and he said he's one of the best schoolboy creators he has ever seen. So yeah, we did have a good team.

We lacked some of the exposure that other teams had. But we were hopeful that we were going in the right direction. Yeah, it was 12 years before Shranker won the World Cup. I know a different form of cricket, one-day cricket against Test cricket, but if I'd said to you in 1984 in just over a decade Shranker would win the World Cup, would you have believed that? Do that seem a bit like a fantasy then? Difficult one to answer.

We believed that we were good players. We had good players and we just lacked opportunity. We kept saying we need opportunity. We need more test cricket. We need more international. exposure and then we felt we could brush shoulders. Because even in the late 70s, I think David came as well. We competed.

When teams came over to Sri Lanka, Riemann, the Ozzy's came, you came. We did really well. Most of the time, you know, in the one day games, we were beating them in Sri Lanka. So we were confident that we can play, but we didn't have the international exposure to say that we didn't travel much and play. travel much and play. So and maybe that's where they thought they can get the better of us fast

because we were new to conditions like loans. Was it occasionally the batting was stronger than the bowling? Bowling wasn't bad. No, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. There was a bit of pace. There was accurate seamers. There was spin. You had leg spin.

And I mean, for instance, going back to 80, the first test match, the inaugural test match in Colombo we were battling heat, humidity the fact that we were expected, the pressure of being expected to beat Stry Langdon in their first test match

fine, I always say when you come up against a new leg spinner, the first thing you have to do is get used to what he does because they're all slightly different. So you have to start to read, you quickly you've got to learn how to read that individual as opposed to anything you might have read in the manuals or seen before. And the point has been made already.

There was a strong competitive spirit and talent, so nothing was going to be easy. And that game I remember, David, we felt, and somebody in your squad, I think it's your captain Fletcher, if I'm not mistaken, who had mentioned. In the inaugural testament. Yes, they said these Sri Lankans are either stopping

or trying to hit big shots. And what they did was they had a slip cord and the rest were nothing in between and we were playing into their hands. And but I guess that was all part of the learning curve. Jonathan, your experience that game, we haven't talked much about, I mean, you were competing for a place on a tour, your bowling figures were two for 123 from 32 overs with three majors. Did you think, well, A, he's put them in on a flat pitch on a sunny day

and my tour place is disappearing. Well, the tour place was sort of there towards the end of the game. I mean, I started off thinking I was going to be all right, you know, and bow well. That was, I'd take a couple of good wickets at the Oval. It was only in my second game.

I didn't know. There was still quite a lot of the members of the team I didn't know, and that was always an issue, I think, playing Frigham back then. I mean, the first time I met Ian Botham was the week before I played at the Oval, you know, which is bizarre. Then you're opening the bowling with him?

Yeah, and it's a, It's a crazy situation, really, because he's all such a massive presence in the dressing room. I mean, he wasn't captain, but he was just sort of owned the dressing room. His kit was everywhere. He was sort of lying in the middle, some of the middle floors in a room. And he just owned it. You know, and he had people, the people who were his mates are around him. And it was, it was a bit of a strange setup, really, from that perspective.

But so you're sort of feeling your way, really. But I did know these fellows, because I'd played against him, Sidnet, in 81. And I'd probably before that as well, you know, you knew they could play. That's the point. But I, because I, because it was new to me. And I was so desperate to make an impression. And in those days also, I think an added thing about, about being a newcomer in the England team.

And it was, in some ways it was a good thing. It was a good thing for county cricket in that you knew that if you strung a few good performances together in county cricket, you're going to, you're good chance playing for England because it was, not a revolving door, but there was, it was, it was, you had more chance of playing for England via county cricket than you do these days. The downside of that was that when you did get your chance, if you didn't take it straight away, then the door would revolve and someone else would come in.

It's on the same process. So there was, there was, you do feel, you did feel that you really had to make an impression early. And of course, the more you felt that, the more you strived for it. And therefore you tried too hard and therefore you didn't actually go very well. And that was, that was what it was.

I just remember these, well these fellas have played so well. And they were still going, coming towards the end of the second day, you know, they got dark. In those days, the umpire would offer the light to the batswin. We don't think it's light enough. Would you like to go off?

And Dickie was at square leg. And I said to Dickie, it's dark out here. He can't get us off? He said, I've been trying. They won't take it. They won't take the light. So he was trying to get off, but he wouldn't go either. Let us get batting.

They batted into the third day. It was, you know, it was a triumph, a triumph for Sri Lanka. It was a difficult game for people who found themselves under pressure. but also back on the side the previous game and there was all the time that that business of of well yeah trying to get on the winter tour we didn't have any jobs when you're right the selection process sorry excuse me in that era was quite harsh um were you involved in selection david's captain did you did you say he plays he doesn't or i'd like him to play i wouldn't like him to play that's a leading question milad um yes as captain you are involved um um

But your influence is diminished if you've just come off a 5-0 drubbing from the West Indies. And one thing you learn very quickly when you get into selection meetings with, I mean, people like Peter Mayer is always a former great England captain and various others. Edsa. There are some quite firm opinions. And sometimes you find yourself fighting a political battle, not necessarily a cricketing battle. So you do literally have to juggle. There's a bit of bartering goes on sometimes. If things are going well and a side picks itself, that's fine.

You're on to the cleric quickly and sending out the memo and everyone's fine. If there are problems to solve and people who might be on the cusp of playing or not playing, sometimes you have arguments about, well, I'd like him for sure. In which case, in which case, okay, we'll have him. So you have to sort of barter what you think is most important. I mean, the classic was the disaster of the 89 Ashes, which I think we talked about last year on. Yeah, well, that's a completely new programme, isn't it?

A different programme, yeah, we've been there before. But it's, yeah, where you had so many players over the whole. Well, there was injury, there was bad form, there was a trouncing, there were disagreements. You know, the bartering got out of hand. But, I mean, thankfully, things move on. You had, saw, the David Graveny era as chairman, where there was more time given to players

than they came in to settle. And of course, you've got this era now. We're in an era now where settling is not a problem. I mean, I love this culture that they've got at the moment where all the pressure is removed as best it can be. I'm sure there's still the human element and personal pride. You want to go out there and get the runs. You want to go out there and take the wickets and take the catches.

But you have to, you know, but the system now is very, very different. I just want to read a couple of emails, one here from Carol and Nick Smith. Enjoy listening to your memories of Sri Lanka at Lords in 1984. Pride to say we were there, it was the day after our wedding, the first day of our honeymoon. Also, proud to say, we're still married. One of our memories was sitting next to an American visitor at his very first ever match. Spent a lot of the day explaining the laws to him. That's Carol and Nick Smith.

And then here's one from Carl Rogers in Lancashire. He says the 1984 test Sri Lanka, special place in my heart, decided to take my then girlfriend, Debbie. now my wife to her first cricket match. We arrived on the Monday morning, buying tickets on the day, as you could easily do so in those days. We're able to get seats in the manned stand. Debbie brought along a book to read, convinced she'd be bored stiff.

As we entered the ground, we had a loud groaning, and both of them was out. First thing was how impressed she was with the ground, the view we had. We settled in and tried our best to explain the field and positions and tactics. Anyway, she enjoyed it so much, I guess. She enjoyed your bowling so much,

and said I was batting so much that she was listening to TMS the next day as she drove to my flat. She's been an avid cricket fan and TMS listener ever since and we married the following year and we celebrate our 40th anniversary next year. All started off on that test match. Oh, he's tragic talent.

Thank you very much, David. It's lovely to see you. You're always welcome to this. Lovely to see you as well and I'm delighted to see David because I haven't met him ever since we've finished playing. He was very generous that day. I've been in therapy.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.