Test Match Special - ‘The Hundred’ sales: What does it all mean?

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Eleanor Oldroyd is joined by the BBC’s Sports Editor Dan Roan, Chief Cricket Reporter Stephan Shemilt & TMS commentator Daniel Norcross to analyse ‘The Hundred’ team sales. We’ll hear from ECB Director of Business Operations Vikram Banerjee, as well as Southern Brave & Sussex fast bowler Tymal Mills. We’ll also be answering some of the questions you sent in to the BBC Sport website.

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souvenirs with pesos in Puerto Vallata or sending euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit Wise.com. T's and Cs apply. from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello and welcome to the Test Match Special podcast. I'm Eleanor Aldroyd, and today we're bringing you a special episode where we look into the 100 team sales.

So why has this happened? What could it all mean? We'll get into all of that and more. You'll hear from the ECB Director of Business Operations, Vikram Baner, as well as the Southern Brave Fast Bowler, Tamal Mills. And crucially, we'll also be answering some of the questions that you sent in to the BBC.

sport website. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Joining me for this is the BBC's chief cricket reporter. Stefan Shermot, hello, Steph. Hello, Ellie. BBC's sports editor Dan Rowan is with us as well. Hello, Dan. Hi, Ellie.

And also the TMS commentator, Daniel Norcross. Hello, Daniel. Hello, Ellie. Right, Dan R, let's start with you. Outline who has got what and what they've paid for it. Well, let's tell you back to last week, Kelly, because that was when this auction began. Surrey were the first host county to involve themselves in this. They negotiated a £60 million price for their franchise, the Oval Invincibles, of course, as they're known, with India's wealthiest family of the Ambarnies.

They're the owners of the IPL team, Mumbai Indians. A 49% stake was sold, so they kept the 51% that was gifted to them by the ECB. sold the other part of their share, the 49%. And this deal meant that they will now be affiliated with this Mumbai Indians group that includes men's teams in the US, South Africa, the UAE, and a team in India's Women's Premier League. Warwickshire next. They also agreed a 49% sale of their franchise, Birmingham Phoenix.

That was to Birmingham City, the football club's American-based owners, Nighthead Capital. They're backed by ex-NFL legend, of course, Tom Brady. That went for £40 million. pounds. Then the following day, we had this consortium of Silicon Valley tech billionaires, including the bosses of Google and Microsoft, agreeing a huge fee of around 145 million pounds for a stake, again, 49% in London spirit. And with it, of course, the chance to form a partnership with Lords. This consortium was led by a man called Nikesh Aurora. He's the chief exec of a of a cyber security company based in the US. And it meant that the whole franchise was valued

at a whopping 300 million pounds. Next up, Glamorgan. They then sold 49% of Welsh fire, their franchise to Indian American IT entrepreneur, Sanjay Govill, for 40 million quid. Lancashire earlier this week then became the first county, interestingly, to sell part of their share. So they agreed a deal worth 70% of the Manchester originals with the RPSG group. Now, they're the owners of IPL team, Lucknow Supergiants, for around £81 million. They're a new IPL team. The group behind them also owns the Durban Supergions. Giants in South Africa's T20 League.

Yorkshire. Now, they're really fascinating because they're the only seem so far to sell their entire stake in their 100 side. The Sun Group, owners of IPL side, Sunrises, Hyderabad, paid around £100 million for 100% stake in northern supercharges.

And we've still got two more to come. Nottinghamshire will sell 49%. It's expected of the Trent Rockets in the coming days. And then Southern Brave, likely to go to the co-owners of Delhi capitals, of course, after their buyout of hosts Hampshire. So once all later done, you'll enter this eight-week period of exclusivity in order to

complete the fine print and the finer details of these negotiations. But the numbers, as I'm sure the guys will testify, are quite remarkable. I mean, the total value of the six franchise is sold so far is almost £800 million, still two to go. And it does feel like a really significant landmark moment for English cricket, one that will change it forever. I mean, that is huge money, isn't it, Stefan? And it's interesting to see some of those names that Dan's thrown in there,

a lot of IPL links, but not exclusively the IPL. No, and the ECB were always really keen for this, not just to be an IPL carve up, that they wanted a mix of investors. And we'll get into that, you know, why these guys have wanted to invest in the 100. And we will get into the positives and negatives as well. It's not just about, you know, floods and floods.

of cash coming into the English game, but from a pure financial point of view and some of those numbers that Dan has just gone through, they are staggering amounts of money. As we sit here with six teams having been sold, two more still to go, it's probably going to end up as the best part of a billion pounds that these eight franchises have been valued at. So far, the stakes have been sold for $466 million. So that'll go past $500 million. I don't think we're We are over-egging it to say this is the most significant event in English domestic cricket since England gave professional T20 to the world. I mean, Daniel, there is also a very interesting way that the different teams, the different counties, as you like, if you like, the stakeholders have sold their shares. So, for example, London Spirit or the MCC have held on to the majority.

has have Surrey, but Yorkshire have sold the whole thing to the Sun Group. Well, they have. And in part, that reflects the fact that Yorkshire have got significant debts. Oh, Colin Graves, a chairman, an awful lot of money, 15, 20 odd million. And they're paying a lot of interest on that. So numbers can sometimes baffle people. But to try to put this into something that people can understand, we're talking about a windfall of around 25 million quid, perhaps more, for the 11 non-host counties. Now, for Yorkshire, that'll increase because they've sold that great big chunk of their, well, their entire chunk.

So they could be looking at getting, you know, upwards of £60 million. That'll wipe out their debts at a stroke, and their debts have been a significant problem for Yorkshire. For counties like North Hans and Derbyshire, I was looking at their most recent accounts. Derbyshire's most recent accounts that I could find had an operating profit of about 100,000, not North Hans, about 83,000. the sudden arrival of 25 million pounds is, you know, 250 times that. It's an incredible amount of money. And what that can mean for these counties is security, frankly, for the next two decades. And as we've seen, you know, for the likes of Yorkshire, it takes a really significant burden straight off their books, just like that.

Well, we'll talk more about where the money's going to go, how much of it will trickle down to the counties, as Daniel has said, or to the grassroots as well. Okay, let's hear now from the ECB's Director of Business Operations, Vikram Banerjee, who was heavily involved in the process of these franchise sales. He spoke with Dan before the investors had been chosen. How much diligence has been done by yourselves, by the bank concerned that these are appropriate, suitable bidders, that you're comfortable and satisfied that these are the right kind of investors to come into 100 cricket? A huge amount, actually. It's really important for us, both from the negative side of things, if you like, reputationally and making sure that all those checks are done. And we've taken external and legal extensive diligence to ensure that that's all there. But also from a strategic point of view, just making sure that we get partners that can come in that can help

grow the team and do something in that local area, but also help the competition grow as well. So there's work that's been done on that part through the conversations to ensure that we're really comfortable, actually. I'm quite happy with what we've got. And can you sum up just how significant a moment this is for the English game then? I think it's a really exciting moment. It is, as you know, it's the first time the English cricket has done this. It's an opportunity for us as we go into it to learn from other sports that have done it and done it really well. And I do think that this will help cricket and the hundred and cricket.

across the sport in this country, the whole game grow and grow at quite a rate. So I'm really excited about what comes. And obviously there was an offer for the whole competition, which the ECB rejected a couple of years ago. Why sell franchises teams rather than the whole thing? What was the thinking behind that? I think we at the ECB are really proud and excited about what the 100 is and what it has done as other game. It's really important now that we continue to grow the tournament, but alongside the whole sport. So we need to use the tournament and other aspects of it to get more children playing the sport,

picking up a bat and a group ball. We need to keep growing test cricket. We need to keep all of our 18 county, professional county members, sustainable and thriving in the blast and other tournaments. And therefore, it's really important that we, as the governing body of the sports, keep control and governance of all of our tournaments of which the 100 is really important. And therefore, through the system and through the structure that we've created,

we would hold on to the things that are really important to us. For example, the window and the schedule within that window, and the teams then can add in and build and grow that tournament through the teams. The second, I think, really important part of that is what I've said from the start around the diversity of people bringing in. by definition, if you gave the tournament to one person, it's one person.

And they could be amazing. They could be brilliant. But here we have the opportunity to have eight amazing, brilliant organisations of people. And that in itself, you know, more brains is better than one sort of philosophy. You've said that the ECB retains the broader decision-making responsibility. But what would you be getting if you are able to secure a controlling stake in any of these franchises? So these are some of the conversations that have actually happened over the last couple of months and they vary.

Broadly they vary. For example, if you're an IPL team that has cricket operations around the world, has relationships with people in the field, then actually you bring a different thing that you can add and therefore need to control than if you've come from outside of our sports or outside sport altogether. So there's been conversations with each of the teams based on cricket operations and you know, write down to kind of who chooses the shirt colors and the head coach all the way through to the commercial aspects of the team, whether that's ticket sales or sponsorship, through to the digital rights. Each of those have varied based on each of the conversation. So again,

it's not me avoiding giving the answer, but I do think it'll be a different set across each of the eight. And the proceeds of it will obviously be distributed between the hosts and the non-host counties, and across the grassroots game, will, to what extent will there be safeguards as to how the money is spent? Because an obvious concern would be that it won't go to the right parts of the game. How will that be controlled? No, it's really important that any proceeds that are received through this are spent well and effectively and on our core objective,

which is create financial sustainability for the sport. But frankly, you don't do this twice. So you have to make sure that's done well. We've spent a lot of time with our board and the separate kind of governing subgroups in terms of the pro game and the rec game, making sure that when and if any proceeds do come in, they're spent on that objective. The key then is what does that mean, how you define financial sustainability for a recreational club, which is very different, through to a professional venue with a stadium and all those sorts of things. sorts of things. So there are a number of safeguards, lessons taken from different sports,

making sure that that is spent in the right way and it safeguards the future of cricket in this country. And I guess some sceptics may be concerned this is the thin end of a wedge. They might look at, say, Hampshire in the way that investors from Delhi have put money into that county and they'll look at what's about to happen to the franchises in the hundreds and say, well, they will all this one day, regardless of, as you should, say the ECB retaining control over the broader window and the rules, will this inevitably lead to gaining more control in the future? What sort of assurance could you offer with regards to that? Personally, I don't see that. Our counties, our member-owned organisations, they will receive

a bit of capital here to make sure that they're financially sustainable. So if they don't want to, no need for them to go down this route. Now, it's different if they would like to for different reasons. But I don't see and don't recognise the thin end of the wedge personally. I see that investors are going to come in and grow this sport through the, I'm sorry, grow the tournament. The tournament growth in of itself will then help grow the whole sport. And part of our core advantage is the membership. It keeps us honest. It keeps the conversation. It keeps these are people that are hugely passionate about cricket. And we need to keep them involved engaged and loving the sport because that's what one of our core foundations are.

Well, that was Vikram Banerjee, the ECB's Director of Business Operations speaking to our sports editor, Dan Roe. And I mean, Dan, if you look at the motivations behind the purchases and the sales, is it just about the money or is there something more to it than this? Well, there's no doubt, Ellie, that some sceptics find it hard to understand why so much money is being spent on these 100 franchises. They question, you know, what exactly has actually been bought. I mean, it's not as if these investors are securing a venue, a stadium, bricks and mortar. They question what exactly is tangible about this competition, which resides in this three and a half week window in the English summer. And in fact, you may remember that Lalit Modi,

the founder of the IPL, he poured scorn, didn't he on the ECB's financial projections and forecasts for the hundred, not that long ago, calling them dangerously overambitious. and unsustainable. There were images posted by my recall on social media showing what the EC believed the 100 would generate in the future in terms of media rights. They thought it would equate to tens of millions of pounds within the next few years, both internationally and domestically, and then sponsorship as well. There were these huge valuations which he thought were unrealistic. The ECB pushed back on that. But, you know, there are clearly many these investors prove that, who believe there is something to this. And if you look at the comments of,

for example, Nikesh Aurora, the California-based investor who successfully led that consortium to partner with the Lords franchise, London Spirit, he said that it was simply too good a chance to miss, to partner with, you know, as such a traditional venue as Lords. It's a sort of one in a kind asset. That heritage, that history, that tradition doesn't come around very often he was saying in an interview with the Times at the weekend. You know, some of those investors that he's partnered with have already got involved with Major League cricket in the US. And they're really hopeful of a major return in the future.

They believe that the 100 could become the second most valuable franchise after the IPL within the next few years. They look at the fact that cricket's the second most watched sport in the world. They look at the incredible media rights deals at the IPL commands for both men's and women's cricket. and they believe that this franchise world is set to explode in the coming years. And they look at, for example, F1. And I think what the IPL owners want to do is effectively complete the circle.

They want an all-year-round global series of events where they can send some of their players to play in franchise crickets attached to their own mother team, as it were, in India, all around the world and all around the calendar. And that northern hemisphere slot in between India and the U.S. here in the UK was very attractive to them. And you can see how in the future, with the right marketing, it could potentially get to a different level.

And if they can release some of those players that are currently playing in the IPL as well, then it becomes a lot more attractive, doesn't it, to sponsors and potentially broadcasters too. Daniel Norcross, let me just suggest to you that perhaps actually for the ECB, they were very keen to say, well, we want to spread the word, bring cricket to new audiences and so on.

But so much of this motivation for them, presumably, was not making the same mistake that they made with T20 by just letting it go off to everybody and not actually take ownership of it and monetise it. Yes, I think that was a very large part of it. And I think they've got to be enormously applauded for this as well because you dig into a few of the details here. At the top of the English cricket at the moment,

we call them the two Richards, Richard Thompson and Richard Gould. And they were the big noises at Surrey. when the 100 was first brought in. And they were actually quite vocally opposed to the 100. They've got very strong links with county cricket. They care a lot about propping up county cricket. Once all the broadcasting rights were signed and what have you, there was nothing they could do about at that point.

It's there. Now, if you've got this thing, what are you going to do with it, how are you going to make a virtue out of what they, I think, probably initially saw as a vice? And there was a lot of skepticism about the methodology, the idea that, you know, why would anybody want to buy 49%? Everybody scorned the entire process that they initiated.

And I think a lot of them are now going to have to, well, I say a lot. All are going to have to say, hang on a minute, I can't believe this. Suddenly, 500 million pounds has come into English cricket, and that's not counting the valuation of the stuff that's not even there. So, I mean, English cricket never managed to do this with T20 before. What it did actually was at that point sort of save English county cricket by creating a spectacle, the T20 Blast, which did wonderful things for the counties. Now, in a perverse kind of way, the thing that a lot of county fans thought was going to be the ruination of county cricket may very well be its saviour. For people who follow cricket and football, Stefan, is there kind of any reassurance or should there be reassurance for them that cricket is not going to end up with the sort of owners that we have.

seen in football. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because you heard there from Vic Graham Banerjee that the ECB had done their due diligence on the owners. And they've done a very, very lengthy process, actually. This goes all the way back to September. I think at one point, the ECB had more than 100 investors interested, or at least maybe more than 100 investors, potential investors, that got their hands on the document that was trying to sell the 100 to them. And there were times when we were thinking, actually, if you look at some of the money that has flooded into football in particular in the way that there has been debate over where that has necessarily been a good thing

and the source of that money, there was certainly chat within cricket as to whether the 100 was going to have that problem, be it the source of the money, or whether it even existed. You know, sometimes football clubs have got themselves in terms, trouble because they've been promised the earth and ended with nothing. But you look at some of the investors that have ended up purchasing stakes in the 100. The Anbarney family, the richest family in India. We're talking about the tech titans, as they're known, who've bought that stake in the London spirit.

CEOs at Microsoft and Google, these are serious business people. They know what they're doing with their money. This is not frivolous. And yes, of course, they've got a keen interest in cricket. And maybe when you are a cricket badger and you've got the opportunity to buy into Lords or the Oval, maybe that just loosens your purse strings a little bit, makes you a bit more likely to put an extra zero on the end of the cheque.

But it's really interesting who English cricket has partnered with, particularly that Lords one when you think of a Silicon Valley consortium. What's that mix going to look like? The tradition of Lords and maybe the forward-thinking businessman from California. It's fascinating, isn't it? It is. Right, we asked you to message your questions to the BBC Sport website about these sales of the 100. And let's throw a couple in to our team of experts. Jay says, what will change in the 100? That's a very straightforward one.

William is kind of going a bit deeper into it. He says, how will the sales impact upon the identity of the teams? For example, could the Mumbai Indians franchise be incorporated into the Oval Invincibles name like... M. I. Cape Town in South Africa. What about that, Stefan? Let's start with you. Yes, I think the first thing to say is, realistically, we are going to see, just from quite an obvious level, a change in colours of some teams, a change in names of some teams. And that will obviously depend on the size of the stake that an investor has bought in a franchise and the deal that they've ultimately done with that county. So I'm really obvious one to think if,

If northern superchargers, 100% have been sold to the group that owns Sunrises, Hyderabad, you would expect that the superchargers are somehow bought in line to the Hyderabad franchise. Will they start playing in Orange, for example? Will they become the Northern Sunrises? I'm not 100% sure that works, the Northern Sunrises, but you never know. It does occasionally rise in Leeds. Yeah, exactly. In terms of how the sales impact upon the identity of the teams,

Because identity can mean lots of different things, can't it? What are they called or what they played in? But it could also mean the way that they operate. And, Dan, when you think about maybe the invincibles and the way that they've partnered with the Mumbai Indians, say, is an example. When the invincibles have got the might of the Ambarni family behind them,

the might of the Mumbai Indians machine, then that's quite an interesting prospect. And they obviously have franchises in the UAE, as I said, in the US. South Africa as well and you can imagine how fans can kind of follow their favourite players playing in each of these franchises around the world, around the calendar. I think it's also really interesting

to consider what might happen to the 100 in the future because whatever one thinks of it, it's about to have more players. Am I right in saying that the amount of money that's being offered to the top players is significantly increasing up to 200 grand? Yes, so the

wages for the top players is going to go up this year at least. So what the ECB are saying is 20-25, transitional year, that's the word we keep hearing. So the top players in both the men's and the women's team, top two in each squad,

they are going to be paid more. We'd expect the wages to go up more as the years go on. And then maybe 2026 is when we see those names and those brandings change. But in terms of, sorry, in terms of let's say the Mumbai Indians being incorporated into the Oval Invincibles,

probably crossover of players. Will the Mumbai Indians want to put their players across the already trot around the globe? Will we see them turn up from Overlin Invincibles? They might have a bigger squad, for example. What we might actually see is Indian players playing in England, which we haven't seen. And I do think the one with the Overly Invincibles

is a very interesting one because actually Surrey have been very vocal about wanting to change their name to Surrey Invincible. So we can have this quite weird clash between a very clear brand name that exists around the world in the Mumbai Indians or like Ami Cape Town, etc. And the club's got a controlling stake

at 51% and they want to be called Surrey. So it'll be quite intriguing to see how that plays out. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. I wanted to bring in a question from Alec actually because Alex said, I mean, you know, picking up on your point, Steph, will this increase the budgets of the teams? says Alec and will this attract bigger name players to the tournament and be less likely to leave to the other tournaments happening at the same time.

I mean, this is a question, I suppose, partly, Daniel, about scheduling as well and about the fact that there is so much competition for the big names and actually the hundredists struggle to compete on that front. Yes, that's very true. The first thing to say about scheduling is that what's effectively been bought here is August, August of the English cricket season, which is a very contentious month. and a lot of people are very upset about it. But at the moment, it looks like it's going to be fixed in August.

It also doesn't look at the moment like there's going to be much creep towards July or into September. So if the 100 gets large enough and gets enough money coming into it, then the clashes that it currently has, which is at the end of the Major League season in the United States, and the start of the Caribbean Premier League, that might slightly ameliorate those concerns because the problem has been that the 100 is not as an attractive a prospect for the players because those two leagues on either side

are also well-paying leagues. If the 100 has this massive injection of money, then the theory is that it'll make the 100 seem more attractive and that can only be virtuous. One of the reasons why the ECB

was keen to invite investment into the 100. Yes, we've talked about the cash injection into the domestic game and the recreational game and the ECB have been keen to say this might secure the future of the 18 counties for two decades or more but there was this acceptance

that the men's hundred in particular the women's 100 was strong and was attracting the best players from across the globe and probably established itself as the number one franchise tournament the men's hundred just hadn't done that it's got this aspiration to be number two

behind the IPL I don't think it was close to that at all in the way the profile the players that was being attracted. Now the hope is greater investment, more money for players. Straightaway money talks. Are bigger players going to come to the Men's 100? But also with these partnerships,

like with Mumbai Indians and Oval Invincible, Sunrises, Hyderabad with the Northern Superchargers. Look now Superjants at Manchester Originals. Are they going to be moving their players around the world and just placing them in the 100 strategically as the year moves on? Well, let's get a player's view now. We can hear from the former England fast bowler. Mal Mills. He plays for Southern Brave in the 100 and for Sussex, and he spoke to

Steph earlier in the week. Tamar, I guess the first thing to ask is, what is your reaction to some of the sums of money that are coming into the game via these sales of shares in 100 teams? I think that it's obviously very varied, which is, I guess, was my first reaction with my county head-on. I think it's great because I was down to the counties. to the non-host counties. So I know from Sussex's point of view, the end result will be great

and the more money that we can obviously get into the county. I know that will go a long way to, you know, helping make the county experience a lot better for everybody, players, coaching staff, supporters. I know the work that the club are wanting to do at the ground and all the plans that they have, you know, these numbers that are now coming into the game are going to obviously pay for that and soon as well.

You know, obviously most counties have plans to do stuff, don't they? But the fact is now that there's going to be funds there that actually can be used to make improvements all around. So, yeah, I think obviously a lot of people will be against it and have been against it and will be against it. And, you know, that's fine. But, you know, I obviously can see things maybe from a different side, both as a player and then kind of as a captain who gets a bit of a piece.

peek behind the scenes in terms of this new money will really benefit a county that doesn't necessarily have an actual lot to do with the 100 itself. When you've played in leagues and you've talked about owners maybe being hands-on and you've just mentioned those two IPL teams that have bought into the 100 and there might be more to come, what is the difference in the way these guys operate when you say they might be a little bit hands-on than what we're used to in English cricket with maybe, I don't know, a county chairman or a chief executive. Yeah, well, obviously, the difference is this is their money.

They're putting their money or their company's money or their family's money, whatever it is. They're putting it in hand and fist, you know, into the product. So, of course, just as anything, if you're putting your money where your mouth is, it gives you a right to certain things. And of course, certain people and certain individuals will use that differently and some will demand a lot and be very hands-on and some will even though they put all this money in they will sit back and allow the cricket people if you like to to do that so again that will it will vary team to team and everybody will have a different formula I guess but yeah I think it's it is fair

to say if you're putting up some of the money that we've obviously already seen you know it gives you gives you a good a good right to have your opinion and you've got to just hope that there's a balance there as players you don't overly love it when ownership are getting involved in cricket things but you also learn to accept it you know at the end of the day they're the ones that are paying your paying your checks and paying your bills so um you know you accept it but you know as as as a player as cricket people you'd like to think that um if the right people are in the right positions um those things will get left to themselves the reasons that we've been told that the ECB have invited investment into the 100. One of them you've touched on

is to get cash into the game for that to spread throughout the professional game and not just being the 100. One of the other reasons we've been told is the desire to bring more high-profile players into the 100 in what is a congested summer. We know that the 100 competes with the Major League cricket and the Caribbean Premier League, for instance. Do you expect that to happen now, the idea being that all salaries will go up? I don't know. I don't there's some increase in salaries coming in 2025. Do you think there will be a greater number of high-profile international players that will want to come to the 100?

I think next year, yeah, so 2026 onwards, if the salaries go up as is expected, as you said, they've gone up at the top end this year, but the schedule is kind of set in stone a little bit, and there's still a clash with the CPL this year, and the money's only gone up at the top end, whereas I've got no idea what the salaries will look like for 2026, but if they do go up in line with the investment that's got into the tournament, which is obviously a huge amount,

if those salaries do reflect that, then, yeah, you will see a higher quality, potentially, of name and of calibre of player. I'm sure you'll see the bigger squads as well, so you won't just have your three overseas players. You'll have maybe three playing and three on the bench, for example, because you'll have the money to attract these guys to come. For certain players, for certain areas that live in certain parts of the world, the British tax system is a negative aspect because they might not pay as high a rate of tax in their respective countries, but then they come to England and obviously if you sign a good contract, you're going to get taxed on it at a high level.

So for it to be worth your while, in some cases, it needs to be quite a big number if you know you're going to be paying tax on it. Those are things that maybe don't get spoken about and considered when it comes to players. and it's not a very glamorous thing to talk about, but it's facts. You know, players do take that into consideration. So, yeah, the salaries going up will help attract players to come more regularly. And then I'm sure with some of the powers that are now coming into the game, they will have influence in being able to help forge that window

and lack of clash between other leagues. Well, that was Tammal Mills speaking to Stefan earlier in the week. I mean, Daniel Norcross listening to that. I mean, you'd expect him to be positive about it, wouldn't you really? Because, you know, he's a man who has specialised in the short form of the game. Well, absolutely. I mean, I think for the players, this is a very, very exciting development, isn't it? Because 100 doesn't pay an enormous amount.

He's absolutely right. I mean, that's partly why people have been playing in the United States. It seems sacrilegious, doesn't it? That people could be sucked into playing in the US cricket leagues rather than in England. And so, yeah, this injection of money is going to be very gratefully received by players. And I think also what we might see, and we haven't touched on this properly yet, is the women's hundred and how that could go through the roof. We attract giant crowds to watch women's domestic cricket in this country, way more than pretty much anywhere else in the world, although India's getting close to it now with the Women's Premier League. Their salaries, you would expect to increase.

They've gone up pretty modestly in the last round. And that could then become the premier women's tournament in the world. And that would be really exciting. because when you buy a franchise you buy two teams. It's one of the things that's really quite exciting about the 100 for investors. We haven't mentioned that yet is that you buy one side

when you're going to do Major League cricket but you buy two when you get two bites at the cherry in each tournament. Yeah and that's a very good point, Steph, isn't it? Because you know, you look at the IPL and somewhat, I mean not under-sufferance but it took them a while to catch up with the Women's Premier League

but this is a fully formed equal, you know, equal equal audiences, I mean, equal pay, I suppose, is the other question. Will the women benefit as much as the male players? Well, I don't think it should be forgotten that one of the recommendations of the ICEC report was that men and women should be paid equally in the 100. I think by 2025, we're not there yet. So I do wonder if that is going to be something that the ECB or the franchisees now need to deliver on.

In terms of the women's game, I think Daniel makes a really good point. Look at the way that the 100 has already been a success for women's sport. I took my son to a game of the 100 last summer. I think it was on a Thursday morning, one of those double-headers that starts at 11 o'clock in the morning. It will not surprise you to know that it was grey in Manchester. It was a pretty miserable day. But there was 11,000 people in the ground watching Manchester Originals women. I can't think of that in anywhere else in the world

where you would get that crowd for women's sport on a midweek morning. And yes, it was in the summer holidays. And yes, that is the target of the 100 to be played in August, to be played in the summer holidays, to target families. But if you're an investor looking at that and you think, well, actually, the raw materials are already there, aren't they? And that is another reason why this competition is so attractive. Let's have a couple more of your questions.

says, what impact do you think it will have on the competitiveness of county cricket? It seems like the seven counties with 100 teams will be much wealthier and be able to attract players. I fear for the other 11 counties. And Jack says once all the money is raised from these historic franchise sales, what will happen to that money? How much goes to the ECB? How much goes to the counties? And we'll only go into the grassroots of the game. I mean, Dan Rowan, you've been hearing a bit about some of the concerns among the counties. that are not host teams? Yeah, I mean, no one I've spoken to, Ellie,

wants to go public with their concerns or be identified, which I think speaks to some of the sensitivities around this situation as it is, because what you do pick up when you speak to those involved at non-host counties is their excitement at the, as Daniel mentioned earlier, these remarkable amounts of money that have about to be handed to them,

you know, tens of millions of pounds, potentially, for businesses that are, struggling to generate commercial revenue, struggling to maintain their infrastructure, even in some cases struggling to sort of pay for travel, you know, at a time when their, you know, membership is dwindling in some cases. So they're going to suddenly be handed potentially 20 million pounds. I think one of their concerns is simply how do we spend this wisely, you know, how do we not waste this opportunity, who is going to actually decide where it goes, who is most worthy of this money, at a time when the grass

streets of the sport, there are concerns, aren't there, over accessibility, facilities, making it as representative as possible in the wake of the ICEC report, you know, how are counties going to distribute these funds properly? So I think that's one area at which they have to give some thought to. I think secondly, they are concerned undoubtedly, based on the guys I've spoken to, about being crowded out in the future. Some of these non-host counties currently play very few days of cricket between the end of July and the start of September. Maybe three

days of cricket in some cases. There'll be the one-day cup that's being played, but it's, you know, in the peak of summer and the school holidays, that's very little action for them to make use of. And I think there's a concern that given the level of investment that we've seen over the last week, regardless of the ECB's

assurances, is this opening, this privatisation, is it opening the door to a loss of control that will one day lead to the being expanded by one or two teams. And if you're not among those counties that become the next generation of hosts, where will it lead? Will the 100 window expand inevitably in the future? And what will happen to the broadcast earnings that they're currently getting a share of? These investors, surely in the future, are going to want that ring-fenced,

want that taken away from the overall broadcast package that ECB negotiates and these non-host counties will be concerned that they are not going to benefit in the future from a competition that they're not connected with so yes I think the message I get from some of them is yeah this is a fantastic windfall but we're allowing the market

to dictate the future and they'll have seen what's happened in some cases in football and they'll be slightly concerned that it could lead to a further erosion of county cricket and maybe international cricket going forward can I come in a little bit on that because all of those concerns make a lot of sense but there's a couple of safeguards that already exist in county cricket one of them is a salary cap and at the moment there aren't very many counties that actually pay their full

salary caps surrey is able to do that because it generates a lot of money if that salary cap stays in there it shouldn't therefore create the sort of two-tier problem that we're really worried about. So a county like Essex, for example, that has continually managed to compete in county cricket at the very high level, arguably the best or second best team in the country for the last six, seven years, has managed to do that whilst existing in a really small ground with the capacity of 6,000. This could only be positive for them. I think another thing, though, that will happen is that there will now be a lot of scrutiny. So there were a lot of conversations taking place about how some of the counties haven't necessarily produced players for England over the

years, like some North Hans and Derbyshire and whatnot, and the cost of getting young people into the pathway. And you see how a lot of the time families complaining about how they're being expected to spend loads of money on training kit and whatnot. Now there'll be a bit of scrutiny on these counties because everybody knows that they've just received 20 plus million pounds. And they might be a little bit wary of paying 75 pounds for a training kit. Do you know I mean. So now there are fewer and fewer excuses, I think, for the counties not to deliver. And I don't think in the short term that we're going to see those counties being left behind because indeed there are sort of, there are provisos within the money that comes in and

whom it goes back out to, aren't there? So the 11 non-host counties stand to make a bit more out of the money that comes in than the eight host counties plus the MCC. So I think it's actually been set up pretty well to look after county cricket. And the message should really be right. We've sorted out your finances. Now show us what you can do. And as far as the grassroots is concerned, Steph, I mean, do we know a proportion? I mean, can we break down proportions of what goes where and who gets what? I knew I was going to get this question. We need to just go back to the idea of how these franchises have been divvied up. So we've talked about the 14 of every franchise that we knew was going to be sold.

Minimum of 49% being sold in each one. Then there's the 51% that the host county or the MCC had, that they then decided what they were going to do with their stake. So, the 49% bit, 10% of all of those sales go to the recreational game. Everything else is split up between the 18 counties and the MCC with a little bit of a bump for the 11 non-hosts. Then we go to the 51% bits of the sales. Again, 10% straight to the recreational game.

Another 10% is then split up again between the 18 counties and the MCC, and the rest goes to the host that sold the stake. So you remember I said there, 10% of everything sold goes to the recreational game. I think at the moment, and I've done some pretty bad maths, with two teams still to be sold, two franchises still to be sold.

I think it's 40 million that's going towards the recreational game. That is an astronomical sum of money going into grassroots cricket. The one thing we don't know, and I have asked this question, who's controlling how that's spent? Because we know that there's been money set aside for the hosts and the non-hosts, and in order to access their bit of the pot, they're going to have to show how they're going to spend it. It doesn't just go into a bank account and it sits there

and potentially get fritted away on wages or whatever. A lot of these counties are going to have to show are they going to spend it? So let's take Worcestershire, for example. Are they going to show flood defences or to build a new ground away from new road so they don't get flooded every year? We know Gloucestershire want to move grounds. All those sorts of things. The counties have got to show a plan that this money is going to make them more financials

financially sustainable. My guess on the recreational grassroots money, and I am talking as a man who is chairman of his cricket club, so I'm really interested in where this is going to go. It normally goes down towards the individual county boards, and they have a way of dividing it, but there will also be things like the ECB. It's got charity partners like Chance to Shine, like the ACE programme, and my guess it will go into those areas as well. But £40 million pounds with two teams still to sell, that could be transformational to the grassroots of the game in this country? Absolutely, yeah.

So it's a lot of money. So that's not arguable in any sense, but there are still concerns. Let's hear from a fan of Lancashire. Alan Hyam is from the Lancashire C-C members group. And he's been chatting to Steph about the sale of the Manchester originals. The question of as we look to the future is, what does this all mean for cricket more broadly? and we know that for two of the four sort of main years, we won't be playing any first class or test match cricket whilst the hundreds on.

So it feels like a big loss that, you know, real cricket of four-day, five-day cricket is not going to be played for a month in the English summer. So people are worried about that. And obviously, it would be great at these 100 matches turn out to this fantastic spectacles. of cricket and attract new people into it that might just share an example with you back in 2019 before it was launched Lancashire was regularly getting well over 10,000, 11,000 people at their home games

and the Yorkshire game would always be a sell-out absolutely 23,000 sort of thing. That's in the blast, isn't it? That's what we're referring to. That's in the blast, yeah. But then it was played in July in August, it was played in the Prime Summer Spot. Now it's been lost and it's been shunted to May and June whilst the Manchester originals and others get the prime August slot, what you've now got is the Manchester original is getting 10,000,

and Lancashire only getting five. And if the ambition with the new owners is to grow that Manchester Originals audience from 10,000, the game to 22,000, it's great if all of those are new people coming in and have never been to cricket before, and they become long-term fans and everything, maybe they will want to come and watch Lancashire. But is there really that much money in the North West?

many people who aren't currently paying for cricket are going to come to grow the originals to that extent without it impacting Lancashire cricket even more than it already has done. So we're quite nervous about what this means for the future for Lancashire County Cricket Club, and that's another thing we'll be looking for the board to explain. What are their plans to develop Lancashire and make it a special team and a special place to watch cricket? They've been very, very positive about their plan for Frances cricket. It's been six years in the making. They've been planning to get involved in franchise cricket and they want to build a special team

from Manchester and the rest of the northwest region, but Lancashire members are concerned about Lancashire County Cricket Club. You know, we're looking forward to hearing what the board has to say about the plans to develop our club. And just as a final thought,

when you talk about the concerns of developing Lancashire as a club, not necessarily the originals as just as a team that play at Old Trafford. You mentioned before the lack of first-class cricket at Old Trafford during August, the peak summer month.

Is that your biggest worry that there won't be that kind of cricket played at Old Trafford during that point of the summer? It's partly that there will be much less first-class cricket played generally across the whole country and for Lancash. Fisher. But also, it's really whether, have the powers that they just said quietly to themselves, their counties are old half. They're not the future. We've just got to manage their decline. And it's the new franchise is what she's going to be the future of cricket in this country. So we're just concerned that, you know, that Lancashire County Football, founded in 1864, members are the ultimate bosses of the club. We are just temporary stewards. We want to hand the club on in a better form than we've We've picked it up. We just see this as a dangerous moment in time when effectively the counties could just drift into totally irrelevance

and the franchise teams become the dominant force in domestic cricket as well as international cricket as they've played globally with common owners. Is there not the optimism, though, that the money's going to come into the game rather than the county's drifting away, that the money will actually safeguard their future for a long period? Well, we don't exist to make money. We exist to develop cricketers, which Lancashire are very good at.

So that's certainly a positive. Our player pathways have been brilliant over the last few years, better than any other county. So as long as the growth in cricket is good for Lancashire as a brand, as a Lancashire team. And if you like, Lancashire just doesn't become marginalised as a result of it. Yes, absolutely positive. We certainly see the opportunities.

But what we're looking for from the Lancashire board is a commitment with some solid plans to grow Lancashire as well as growing the originals. And if the originals is a means to an end for Lancashire, then everybody will fall in behind that, no problem. Well, that was Alan Hym from the Lancashire County Cricket Club members group. We also had a message from James, who describes himself as a depressed Sussex fan. And he says this, I'm going to put both of these points, really, what you've heard from Alan and what you're going to hear from James, Daniel, to you. And James says, will England be allowed to schedule international matches

or other domestic tournaments during the 100 or will the franchises essentially own August? Not will they want to schedule games, but will they be allowed? Well, the ECB will be allowed to do what it wants, but what it's clearly done is sell August. And I know this is a really painful thing for a lot of cricket fans to appreciate. And me as well, traditionally I used to want to watch a lot of cricket in August. But times have changed somewhat.

August is now a time when the football season gears up quite quickly. A lot of people go on holiday. And somehow the ECB has managed to get itself the best chunk of £500 million for the counties for August. That is a reality that I'm afraid county cricket fans are going to have to get used to. They've been sort of encouraged to understand the truth of this over the last three or four years because that's when the 100 has basically been. And it's become pretty clear now. that there aren't going to be international matches in August,

which, as I say, is painful. But the quid pro quo of that is, you know, to come back a little bit to what we were hearing from Lancashire, asking what Lancashire's plans are for their members, it's a perfectly legitimate question. But their plans will be a lot easier when they've got a chunk of money in their bank account upwards of 35, 40 million pounds on the sell-off as well

of part of their stake and everything else that comes in. Now, yes, tailoring what you're going to do for your members is going to be important. come back, I'm sorry to do it again, but let me come back to women's cricket. The ECB has developed a top tier of women's cricket as well. So some of these counties, including Lancashire, now

have two very marketable, serviceable propositions. Now, they won't be existing in August, of course, because those players will be playing in the 100. But there is more real estate for these counties to play with because they've now got two really strong brands that they could go out and

sell around April, May, June, July and September. That's not let's not forget. The problem that English cricket has got is that it's a small season. And that is never going to change because of the way the climate is. So how else do you make this happen? I have a lot of sympathy with county fans because I feel very similarly myself. But I've also got to applaud what the ECB has managed to do. Yeah, it is hard though, isn't it, Steph?

Because I mean, as you said, you took your son to watch the 100. You know, there'll be people who are saying in the school holidays, you should be going to watch Red Ball Cricket as well. That should be an option. You know, the long-term health of the test team as well, Steph. I mean, these are all points that I can hear people shouting at their, you know, at their phone or whatever. They're listening to this podcast on. They are perfectly legitimate, valid concerns.

And the one thing I keep coming back to about English cricket, and we could fall down a big rabbit hole of the English cricketing calendar here and schedules and Strauss reports and all those sorts of things. The one thing that I come back to with the English Cricketing Calendar is no other country that plays cricket as seriously as is played in the UK tries to serve so many different masters trying to keep so many different parts of the game happy in such a short, unpredictable summer. That is the reality. And we could say that actually we've sold August. That might be the month where it rains heaviest. There's certainly been summers recently when the best weather's been in April and May.

I kind of think of the English cricket in season. You know like London, how sort of bits of it have been built and sometimes you can't get your way around and there's back streets and things like that, but that is part of its charm. Or it could be like Milton Keynes and it could be streamlined with roundabouts and a grid system and it could work really perfectly, but it wouldn't be nearly as charming. That's sometimes how I think of it. And the reality is, if it wasn't the 100 being played in August, it would be the blast

because we would give over the peak summer months to another short form competition. And again, this is not pitting the blast against the 100, but it's just what has been decided. The best way for English cricket to thrive is to have a franchise competition. And that is why that is played in August. It doesn't mean there won't be men's international cricket, because we have. I have seen test matches scheduled against 100 in the past, but I think it will become increasingly less likely for that to happen. Right, we've covered lots of ground in this podcast.

I want to give the final words to Tom, who sent us a very long message. And so, Tom, we have rather paraphrased your text, I'm afraid. So I hope that we bring the spirit of what you had to say here. He said, I want to share some concerns about Nighthead Capital, buying 49% of Birmingham Phoenix. Nighthead Capital, of course, the owners of Birmingham City. I'm exactly who the 100 was meant to attract I wasn't a big cricket fan before

but Phoenix won me over I've been to games, got the merch and was buzzing to take my son this summer Edgeburston felt like a place where Brummies could come together Villa fans and Birmingham City It doesn't matter But this investment, it risks breaking that unity

Birmingham's football divide is deep and tying Phoenix so closely to one half of it is only going to turn people away As a villa fan I honestly don't think I can back a team linked to my club's biggest rival and based on the reaction I got when I mentioned this online, abuse from blues fans flooded in instantly. I'm not alone in feeling that way.

This could have been a sporting institution that brought the city together. Instead, it's pushing a huge part of its fan base away. I love The 100. I love Phoenix. But this just feels like a huge misstep. Tom, thank you very much indeed for that. I mean, Stefan, just a quick reaction from you off the back. Yep, and I even spoke to people at Warwickshire

before this sale went through saying you do know because the owners of Aston Villa were in the running as well you do know that you might be picking a side here that you might be aligning yourself with a football club and those passions run deep. I hear what is

being said there and it is a genuine concern and it's a valid point and I think it is maybe something that might not have been considered when these investors were chosen. Having said that, Vic Graham Banerjee who we heard from earlier.

I don't think it might be revealing to anyone that he is a massive Aston Villa fan. It's a fair point. I suppose my final thought on this whole process is we're not going to know if this is being the right decision for many, many years to come. Money doesn't solve all problems.

It certainly helps. The game in England and Wales has just been given a massive, massive opportunity. Now we get to. to see whether it takes it or not. That's a great place to finish. Stefan, thank you very much. Indeed, our chief cricket reporter, Stefan Schemelt.

Dan Rowan, BBC's sports editor and TMS's Daniel Norcross, thank you to them as well. Thank you very much indeed as well for your messages on the BBC Sport website. Make sure you're subscribed to TMS wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you so much for listening to this Test Match special podcast, and we'll speak to you soon. Thank you.