Test Match Special - The IPL - Buttler's back and Shikhar Dhawan reveals the secret to staying at the top of your game

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Simon Mann, Abhishek Jhunjhunwala and Nikesh Rughani talk through some Buttler and Kohli brilliance, and we've got an exclusive interview with Punjab Kings captain Shikhar Dhawan.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. podcast at the IPL. Hello and welcome to another edition of the Indian Premier League podcast from Test Match Special.

I'm Simon Mann. After more than two weeks of action, we're beginning to see the pace setters and strugglers at the start of this year's competition. At the top, Rajasthan Royals have four wins from four matches. Problems, though, for Mumbai Indians, RCB and Delhi Capitals, who each have just one win apiece. What about Butler's brilliant hundred at the weekend? and can Hardik Pannier

win over the fans across the country. We'll discuss that in the next 25, 30 minutes or so in the company of former IPL star Abyshek, Janjun Rola, and commentator Nikesh Raghani. And we'll have an exclusive interview with Punjab King's captain Shika Darwin. This is the TMS podcast at the IPL. Rajasthan Royals at the top of the table, early days,

but should we be surprised? the final, the year before last, just missed out on the playoffs last year. Have they got a nice, solid structure to their team? Yeah, I would think so, and I think Josh Butler finding form is the biggest key for them. And they look like a unit. This year, every time we have seen them, it looks like they've got a very balanced side, and everyone's contributing is not just one or two players. And if you want to be a successful franchise, that's what you need.

You need all your players to contribute some way or the other, some more than the others. but and what I think Rayan Parag batting at number four has really clicked for them well because he's another superstar in Indian cricket hopefully maturing enough this year for the last four seasons averaging 11 and 12

still getting an opportunity is a massive thing I think for any youngsters and they've shown a lot of faith in him and now they're reaping their rewards yeah and I'd say that's absolutely true with Rian Parag I mean look at the start of the season Rajasthan Royals tend to do pretty well in these IPL tournaments

of course they did make the final a couple of years ago. But aside from that, they usually fade away towards the end. I think the key this year is that Butler has found his form four matches into the competition.

There are others who have been putting their hand up delivering those match-winning performances. They look solid with the ball. Trent Bolt early on, taking those early wickets in the power play. And Rian Parag, finally, I mean, look,

he's been given a chance. This is what, his fifth season of IPL cricket. In his previous four seasons, he's failed to average over 15. Now, no other player, is getting an opportunity to continue having a contract and continue to be picked in the 11 with a record like that.

But they've seen something in this guy over the last few years in domestic cricket, in training. They know that the talent is there. They've backed their man and it's finally coming good. And that's really the mantra of the Rajasthan Royals because you look at somebody like a Yoshasvi-Jafal who's a massive star now. He wasn't really delivering in his first couple of seasons of IPL.

Yes, he was a very young man. But again, they backed their young talent. and I think that is paying dividends for them at the moment. Chiswere, yet to fire, though, in this season's IPL, 39 runs in four innings. I mean, it could overwhelm you a bit, can't it? You know, all the hype are fantastic series against England. Wonderful, wonderful batting.

Probably scored all his runs there, Simon. I didn't keep enough for the IPL, but he's got so much talent, he's got so much quality. It's just one innings. In T-20 cricket, because it comes so thick and fast, sometimes when you don't start that well, is sometimes quite hard to get back in form. It sounds a bit bizarre when he's got nearly 700 runs in the test series.

But that can happen in the shorter format because they come so quickly. But he is just one innings away, and I don't think anybody's losing any sleep over him because his pure quality. Of course, the point is, they've won four, and he hadn't got a basically barely got a run yet. Which is a good thing, I think, because then he's got his runs stored for the later half of the tournament and probably peaking at the right time.

Josh Butler with 100 at the weekend. He brought his 100 up. with a six to win the match. Remarkable stroke, actually, because I don't think he got it out of the middle. He got it off the toe end of the bat, and it still went over deep midwicket. And also, what was interesting,

just looking at Butler, because he's another one. Jicewell's won Butler's another, who hasn't really fired so far, some sort of low single figure scores. We got the 100. There was a sense of real elation. It's all mixed in with the relief of that 100.

Yeah, and look, I mean, Joss Butler and hundreds in the IPL is a sort of never-ending love story at the moment. We saw what he did a couple of years ago. He nearly broke Coley's record for, what, 960-odd runs in an IPL season. It was fantastic. Had a slight dip last year. And look, there were question marks over his form coming into the start of this season's competition.

Didn't fire in those three matches, as you say. And it doesn't matter what you've done in the past. When you're playing at this level, this sort of, you know, in the IPL, all billion eyes of Indian cricket fans are watching you. There's a lot of pressure on players at the top of the order. they've gone for a lot of money players like Joss Butler. They get paid huge salaries. A lot is expected of them.

And he's only human. He was feeling that pressure. And that's just sort of that elation and the fact that he could finally celebrate when he brought up that century with the 6th. It was great to see. And it's great for English cricket fans, of course. Joss Butler in form ahead of the T20 World Cup. I think you've got to see the biggest hug he has ever given any cricketer on the other side.

And it just shows that it was such a relief for him because he was desperate. We all know he's been desperate. He didn't have a great tournament last year, as Nickase mentioned, and didn't start very well this season either. And somebody like Josh Butler, now he's got that 100, you know what's coming. If you're the opponent, you know what's going to happen to you next game. Someone else got 100 in that match as well. Someone called Virac Koli, who's the leading run scorer in this season's IPL so far.

He's got over 300 runs. He's actually quite a long way clear of the next best player. But we are early days. You know, four or five matches have been played so far. And yet, even though Cody makes 100, 113, it was off 72 balls. He reached his 1067 balls, which was the joint slowest 100 in the history of the IPL. The reason I mention that is because you know what's coming next. People say, he still scores too slowly.

But his team are really struggling. What do you say to that, Nikesh? Look, 67 balls, joint with Manish Bandai. And, yeah, if you look at it in isolation, you could say, well, it's not good enough by 2024 IPL standards. However, you've got to look at the situation of the match, I feel, as well. You look at that opening partnership with Faf Duplice, who made 40 from 33 balls. I mean, that's not really good enough, is it? You've been out there, you've got yourself set, you've faced 33 balls, you've only got 40, then you get out as well, which is a bigger thing.

And you look down the scorecard as well. There wasn't much support for Virac Koli there, so it wasn't as if he could do the hitting from one end and people could bat around him. They were losing regular wickets. And usually it's his role to be the anchor, to bat through the innings, to strike at over 150, which he was, 157 strike rate in that innings, which isn't too shabby at all. But when he's getting no support from the so-called other hitters in the side, the likes of duplicity, he usually does score at a higher rate,

Glenn Maxwell and Dinesh Gartick and all these guys coming down the order, then there is a real problem in that RCB side. So he's quite clear of his role. It's just, it seems at the moment that he's not getting quite the ideal. support from the other end. And look, I mean, 67 ball 100, yes, maybe a little bit slow in the car. I wish I could hit a 67 ball hundred by the way. I'm sure most people do. That's the point, isn't it? It's Virac Koli, I suppose. But look, Josh Butler hit a 66-400 a couple of years ago. There's been another couple of 66-400s, but there were many years ago. David Warner

in 2010, Sachin-Tendulka, 2011. So a long time ago, different ballgame back then. Butler hit one a couple of years ago for the Rajasthan Royals and everybody was lauding here. him just scoring a century at a decent lick. Rajasthan, I think, did go on to win that game a couple of years ago. That is obviously the difference. And also I feel when this man has scored 38% of the team's goal, it shows how much responsibility and how much pressure he's under because he knows no one's contributing from the other end.

Glenn Maxwell is just walking in and walking out. He's just out there for fun at the moment and you don't expect anything from him. So if you're Virad Koli, you know that everything relies on you. If you're not going to get those big scores, you might not even get 250. And that's been the case for other RCB for quite a number of years. So I think, yes, there will be a lot of debate, but you can clearly see his intent. He was not looking to get those ones and twos. He was trying.

It was not the easiest to pitch either for everyone's struggle. And just you take out his 114. They would not got a decent score to even bowl at. What's going wrong with RCB? It's one, one, lost four so far. I mean, it's the same story. They have zero bowling. If you're any side in this competition

and you're playing against the RCB, you know whatever runs they get. You're going to come out there and chase it because they just don't have any bowling. No quality spinners, no fast bowlers. It's just they didn't pick the right side, it seems like. So that comes down to recruitment, isn't it? Yeah, the strategy at the auction.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, and this has been going on for 16 years, not just one or two year affair. It's like the old Real Madrid ownership, isn't it, in football, where they got together that team of Galacticos. And when they had all the Galacticos, and you're talking about the David Beckham's and the Ronaldo from Brazil and all these guys, they managed one league title in, what,

a four or five year period. They didn't win the Champions League, never threatened to win the Champions League. It's a bit like RCB. I don't know what the ownership is up to because you look at some of the players they've got now and that they've had in their history. You know, Chris Gale, A.B. DeVilleas, they've got Maxwell, they've got Duplice now. Obviously, Coley's been around. They've had some absolute gun players at the.

top of the order with the bat, but it just seems as though, you know, either the owner's a batter or just wants to select all the best, his favorite batters so he can see plenty of runs at the Chinnaswami. He doesn't care about results, maybe. But they should know batters win your games and bowlers win your competition. It's always been the story in T20 cricket, and hence you see the best bowling sides always threatened to win the competition. Rajasthan Roy is probably one of the best bowling attacks at the moment, and you look at

even Gujarat, they've got a very, very strong bowling. lineup. So all the sides which have a better bowling line have got a better shot at it and something's wrong with the management because either they don't have enough scouts going around the world which other team does because you look at the Mumbai Indians every tournament doesn't matter where

there is a tournament happening they have got their scout watching a game. I don't think RCB goes to that extent to find the real talent. There'll be some big scores in this season, IPL. I mean a couple of monster scores so far. Is this what we can expect?

because teams are just pushing the boundaries. I know there have been one of two low scores recently as well. There was a low score yesterday in the Chennai-Kalcutta Knight-Riders match where Calcutta just didn't get enough, did they? And Chennai knocked them off quite comfortably. Do you sense that teams are just pushing the boundaries a bit more or is it just sort of one of those things that we've had these two massive scores so far in the two 70s?

If you look at the way the game has evolved in the last four or five years, the batters have gone stronger, the bats have become better and a lot of power hitting. and the way they look at things now is very different. Earlier when we were playing cricket, we never thought the way they think now. They only think in boundaries. They're not really concerned about the ones and twos.

And as in a team meeting, probably they are discussing that we need to hit 20 boundaries in total or 25 boundaries in total at least to get to that 200. And if you can hit 25, 30 boundaries innings, and that's just 30 balls out of 120, then you're guaranteed to get to a very, very high total. But that never used to happen when we used. to play.

So I think the mindset has changed massively, and along with that, the players are working very hard on power hitting. Yeah, and look, I mean, power hitting is one thing. You see KKR when they, you know, almost beat the Sunriser's record, which was set earlier on in the season, making 272. You've got Sunil Narayan, we know what he can do at the top of the order, but then you've got a youngster like Raghavanshi coming in at number three and playing all those brilliant shots, and he's 18 years old.

It was his first ever IPL innings, and he looked like a season. professional out there. It's just the mindset of these young cricketers in India that they can do this. They're built for this. They practice this boundary hitting. They practice all this range hitting

in the nets and in domestic cricket as well. They get to this level. And it's like, well, this is what I've been training all my life to do. These last seven years of my life, I've been training to do exactly this. And that new mindset from these young players coming into this competition, I think,

makes a massive difference. And we are going to see those big scores as a result. And I also think there's a massive difference. A massive shift in the way these players have been handled recently. They've shown a lot of faith. I think they've been told that you're going to get five or six innings. So you've got to give them confidence. Because if you know that you've got one or two shots, you can't play cricket like that.

It's impossible. You'll always have that fear of failure. You'll always have that fear of getting out. But when you see these youngsters walking out to a Pat Cummings or a Mitchell Stark, they're fearless. I mean, which is astonishing for me to even see that they can do what they're trying to do out there, which is brilliant for the game. let's move on to Mumbai Indians it's been a theme throughout the competition so far

it's partially allayed the other day by their opening victory helped by a Romario Shepherds remarkable striking at the end of the innings 32 off and over you do wonder actually when the IPL is going to throw up a six sixes off the over possibly even more as well when you have wide no balls who knows you might even have a 40 off and over

somewhere down the line so you know people say you know much need four Much needed six. Goodness me, that was a much needed victory for Mumbai Indians. They were desperate for it. And I think Hardik Pandya is the happiest man in the planet at the moment because there was so much chat going around him that there might be a shift in caps and see.

They might go back to Rohit Midway through the season. There was so many things going on. And when you're Hardik Pandya and you're listening to all the experts saying all these things, that will definitely play a part in your mind. And I think that was a massive relief for him. To be honest, somehow I feel that he's got the wrong end of the stick because, yeah, he didn't deserve what was going on. booing him everywhere he was going because

no player deserves that. Not just Hardik Pandya. And to be honest, to be fair to him, it was not his fault. If Mumbai Indians wanted him, he told them that the only way I'm going to come back is as a captain and which was not wrong from his part because he's won an IPL and been a runner's up the next year. So what do you expect him to go as a player?

So I think there was nothing wrong from his part and asking that. But yeah, he just got the wrong in the mistake. But he must have known to get that, he'd have displaced Rohit Sharma. He must have known what he would be walking into as a result of that if they said yes. It's a massive boot to fill, but I don't think he expected India to react the way

they did, because obviously he's got a massive fan following in India, but he just didn't realize how big is Rohit? Yeah, you say he's got a massive fan following, and he has, clearly, he's got a lot of fans in India, but he hasn't got the same kind of fan following as Akoli, Adoni, a Rohit Sharma, Jasbitt Bhumra, even, you know, some of the sort of second tier to those absolute greats. I don't know what it is. He's a little bit like Marmite in some circles. You love him or you hate him.

And at the moment, he's got a lot of hate and a lot of it unnecessarily unwarranted, particularly from his own fans. You understand Goodrard Titans fans booing him in that first game that Mumbai played because he left them and it's that kind of football mentality. A player leaves you, you boo them, you know, leaves you essentially for more money as well. So there was all that to take into account. But when he goes to places like Hyderabad, I mean, there's no reason for the Sunrises fans. to boo Hardik Bandia.

You know, they're Indian cricket fans at the end of the day. So huge relief for him to bring up his first win, but it's still going to be a difficult season, I think, for the Mumbai Indians. Is that booing? Is it pantomime booing, or is there some real venom in it? Oh, there's real venom. If you heard, and because a lot of chanting is going in Hindi, and the stuff which has been said to him, honestly, it's not right.

It's just not right. It is, and it's just that fandom of Rohit Sharma, really, who is one of the greats. I mean, what he has done for Indian cricket, not many have. I mean, he's got three double centuries in ODI cricket. He's a T20 World Cup winner. He's won five titles with the Mumbai Indians as captain. So those fans absolutely love him and worship him.

And you just imagine, you know, Sachin Tendulka in his peak, just being displaced and essentially sacked as, I know he was, you know, removed as India's captain, but that was partly his decision as well when Ganguly came in and he had a couple of stints at that. But imagine in this situation, captain of a club side, a franchise team, somebody like that, or an MSTONI being removed and it not being his decision to step down as Chennai Super King's captain. Each time he has done it, it has been his decision.

I think the communication from the franchise was a lot better because if Roy had anything to do with this decision, it would have been communicated in that way. There would have been a statement with Rohit saying, look, time is right for me to step down from the captaincy, blah, blah, blah. It wasn't like that. removed and I think that's where that ill feeling comes from. What do you think he's

thinking, Rohit? I think personally knowing Rohit, however much I know him, he's the most relaxed person I've known in cricket and that's probably one of the major reason why there's been so much booing going on because he's massively loved in India.

Not just because of his cricket, the way he is outside cricket, he's a very normal guy. He doesn't have those fancy, he doesn't show off, he doesn't do those fancy things which Hardik and others do and I think That's why his image is also very different than what Hardik's got. So that is also playing a massive part in whatever is going on with Hardik Pandya. I will say one thing, Abhishek and Simon,

I don't know if you've been following Hardik Pandya's social media, but his media team seems to have woken up after that win as well. There's been a few posts. The feeling is good at the moment in the Bandia household. But you said, Nikash, you think it's going to be a difficult season for Mumbai Indians. So, you know, if they were to lose their next couple of games, do you think there is a scenario where they might say to Hardick

yeah thanks but no thanks back come to Roe Hit? They can't do it they've made their bed now it's so difficult when you've made a massive decision like that at the start of the season then to go back on that you know forget removing him as captain that's one thing but then to give it back to Rohit as well

you're just the owners and the coaching staff and all the people who make the decisions there are just going to be saying well we got that one completely wrong we don't know what we're doing So there's no way they will accept that. There's too much ego at the Mumbai Indians in that leadership group to make that decision, I think. Also, I don't think Rohit is going to accept it. Knowing Rohit, he's not going to accept it.

He's just going to say, no, I'm not interested in doing it. Give it to somebody else. Give it to Bumra. I think he was in contention of getting the captaincy before Hardik Pandya. He's somebody again who wouldn't be very happy with the way things have turned out. That's another thing, isn't it? Because Jasprit Bumra is the vice captain of the Indian test team. he was the next in line

he thought himself he was going to get it when Rohit eventually stepped down maybe in a couple of years' time and many around the Mumbai Indians would have felt that way too so I wonder if there's any division within the camp because Bhumra will certainly have his supporters within the playing group

so that's another sort of interesting subplot I mean just for Zumra is massive I don't think Mumbai can win a competition without just beat Bumra playing so I think he's in a stronger position than Hardik Pandya in terms of the way the team management works and everything but we'll just have to wait

and see how everything pans out for Mumbai Indians Does the IPL need these plot lines Is it working actually quite well for the IPA? It's got people talking about it even more I think it works brilliantly for their social media and for IPL as a whole as a tournament it works brilliantly if you have these sort of issues between

teams and there's so much because of this you get so many different sort of fans even following the IPL who probably wouldn't have followed it otherwise Yeah, it's like one of these series on Amazon Prime or Netflix, isn't it? There's been a few cricket ones from India, actually. And this kind of stuff is, you know, part of the plot line. So to have it in real life playing out like this is great.

I'm not sure how great it is for the Mumbai Indians there. They could do without all this drama. But, you know, the Ambani family, they're always in the news for some reason or another. Their son's pre-wedding party, which Rihanna performed at. And every top cricketer in the world was there. That was making news all around. the world and straight into the IPL and they're back on the front pages. Yeah, well, there's the Mumbai Indians.

Then there's the Delhi Capitals. We talked about Mario Shepherds hitting and Rock Nork, Norkia going around the party. You know, one of the most vaunted quick bowlers in the world. Mitchell Stark's had a difficult time of it as well, isn't he's being panned around the ground? Well, what about that over, 32 off and over? What could Norky have done any differently in that over? He was at the Wankady Stadium. He was being slapped here there and everywhere.

He did try different things, then he did die. He wasn't bowling the same ball every time. Yeah, but on the one-courri pitch, first of all, is very difficult for any bowlers because it's an absolute belter. On a particular day, it could be absolute belter. And when you have somebody like Romario Shepard, who's just, you know, in some of the shots he got lucky because that happens in cricket and is T-20 cricket.

So as a bowler, you don't have a lot of thing to fall back on. If you miss your length slightly, you're going to go for runs. And that happened to him earlier as well. when M.S. Doni took him for over 20 and over. And I think most batters are looking for quakes. If you're in that situation in the 19 and 20 over, you want somebody to bowl really quick rather than somebody like Natarjan or somebody else,

you know, who can do a lot of different things, a lot of slower balls, a lot of balls which just tops into the surface. So I think it works really well for the batters if somebody can bowl really quick. And hence, Patrick, sorry, Mitchell Stark and Nokia both going for a lot of runs. Yeah, indeed. I mean, look, sometimes the quicker you bowl in competitions like the IPL, the further you get hit in the Wankadi on that day was quite similar to when South Africa launched that assault during the World Cup. And he saw Janssen at the end smashing 70 odd as well. We had that kind of same feel about it towards the back end of that innings from Shepard. And look, Norquia maybe just getting his lengths marginally wrong. And we're talking an inch or two here and there is a bit like last year. final where Mohit Sharma nailed

four Yorkers in that final over to Jadaja got two of them marginally wrong and he got hit for a four and a six and Chennai win the game so it's just those little small margins particularly when you've got all that extra pace to work with. Talk much about Chennai yeah, Chennai Super Kings, the defending champions

got this record where they you know at home they look unbeatable away from home they've lost a couple of games although they actually haven't said that they seem to be playing at home everywhere they go because their fans turn up in the yellow everywhere you go You think, hold it, this is a home match for them? No, they're actually playing away at this time. But I do notice that one of the last knockout game

and the final course are in Chennai. So if they finish in the top four, they've got a great chance of basically playing either home, effectively a semi-final, and then going on to the final in their own ground. I mean, that's looking ahead at quite a long way. We've got to get in the top four first. How have they gone so far?

I think they're looking at very settled side to me, and especially after yesterday's win, yeah, they had back-to-back losses, but then yesterday it was a very professional. professional performance for them with the bat, with the ball. And it's just a very balanced side. And as you said, everywhere they play, it looks like they're playing at home conditions because of M.S. Doni.

Because this, hopefully, again, we don't know yet. Because Doni keeps changing his mind for the last two years. Everyone's been thinking that he's going to retire. But every year he keeps coming back. And to be honest, the way he's striking the ball, if he doesn't keep, from next year onwards, if he says, I'm not going to keep, I'm just going to come as an impact sub. I think he can play for another five years.

To be honest, he can carry. But the impacts up, all he has to do is come in and number six or seven, hit a few sixes and chill. He doesn't have to do anything else. Well, just carrying him on to the grind, do you think? I mean, he can easily play another three, four years. I have to wheel him out by that stage. I mean, look, he looks in incredible shape.

He is getting on in years. I think it's great. It doesn't matter if Chennai win or lose. Even that match where he smashed Nokia for 20 and over came in, smashed his first ball of the season for a four and just carried on throughout that innings. Chennai lost by about 20 or runs. That was the weird thing. It didn't matter. Nobody cares.

I know that was the weird thing. They were losing the game by mile. It was like a team being, I don't know, 5-0 down in the football match and, you know, their favourite player scoring too late on. And it was like, yeah, fantastic. But actually, they were losing the game by country. You'd be imagined some of those fans, right? You know, some of them would have been to the IPL for the first ever time. All they want to do is CMS Stoney.

even if he comes out to bat for one delivery but the fact they got to see a cameo he rolled back the years, he was smashing the ball out of the park I mean some of those shots were fantastic 95 mile an hour deliveries disappearing 20 rows back it's like Lionel Messi being wheeled out the new camp in five years time

Barcelona losing 5-0 but Messi comes on and scores a goal I mean that's all anyone wants to see in that stadium at that time it was the same feeling yeah I mean yesterday even yesterday he didn't need to come out they needed three to win he just came out because of the theatre

because he knew that everyone is there to watch him probably for the last time so everywhere he walks in I don't think the Chennai fangs really wouldn't mind if Chennai loses as long as

MS scores a quick 30 or a 40 we're going to hear from Shika Daman in just a moment but there's one final thing we can talk about Gujarat Titans I mean they've been right up there the last couple of years winners the year before

and beaten finalists last year and actually you know when you look at that final they were a bit unlucky really I really could have gone that way It could have been back-to-back titles. This year under Shubman Gill, they're not doing quite so well,

two wins and three losses. Is that the Pandya factor? Or is there something else at play here? I think more so than Hardik Bandia. And obviously they're going to miss somebody like him, his all-round capability. He proved that he was a good leader when he was there as well.

I think they're hugely missing Mohammed Shami because that impact in the power play, to take those early wickets, there's nobody who does it quite like Mohammed Shami. Last couple of seasons, he's been right up there in terms of the wicket-taking charts and the fact he's out for the entire season leaves a massive hole for them with their opening bowling slot. They've got himish Yadavin as a sort of replacement and trying to fill that role. He's been a little bit sporadic so far.

He does tend to bowl well in Indian conditions with the new ball, but he's not quite a Mohamed Shami. Mohit Sharmah has been a shining light for them, but he hasn't quite had that support of somebody like a Shami with the extra pace and the extra swing and the ability to get two or three wickets in the power play and really put good right in the driving seat. I think that has been the biggest hole. And the fact that David Miller's missed the last couple of games as well,

that obviously is an ideal. They do have other players like Dawatia and Rashid Khan in that middle order who can play a similar role. That's been less of a problem. I think the Shami factor is huge. Yeah, absolutely right. I think Mohamed Shami and also Miller not playing the last couple of games. And if you look at the record in the last couple of seasons,

it was Shami and Miller. Miller came in at the lower rent and won them matches which they had no chance of winning and Mohamashami every match invariably he got a wicket in the power play one or two wickets and ended up with around 24 or 25 wickets in the season

which is a massive number in terms of T20 competition so I think yeah in case you're absolutely right they are really feeling the void of Mohammed Shami and they hope that Miller returns as soon as possible okay well they're still in it but they've got a bit of work to do last year's beaten

finalist and the winners from the year before. Let's get a bit of insight now into one of the biggest names in IPL history. Shika Dhawah, Nikas You've been speaking to him. Yes, he's one of very few players still featuring in the Indian Premier League who's been there from the absolute start since making his debut for the Delhi Daredevil's back in 2008. He's gone on to make over 220 IPL appearances

and only Virak Koli has scored more runs. These days, of course, he's busy not just opening the batting for Punjab Kings but also captaining a side, which is full of young talent. He's been telling me about leading a group of such promising players. Yeah, it's quite exciting to be with young talent and experience there as well. We got a very similar team from last year. And that was our planning as well, that team, the same team. It was the one which we created last year.

We carry forward that one. and yeah, enjoy the process. You as a captain as well, you obviously take you on a different role in recent years leading their side. How has that experience been for you being in charge? It's a very good experience. Of course, a lot of responsibilities

come on the shoulder. I have to make sure that team environment stays quite good. Have to be nice and easy because it's a high-pressure tournament. So especially, youngsters can get too hard on themselves when they don't perform so how to keep their mind at ease

all those things as a senior player with my support staff as well I have to manage all those things and discussing about the strategies with the support staff team selections lots of

thought processes and the group seems pretty tight niche as well the last couple of seasons there's a really good team spirit by the looks of it. How is that created? I mean, it's never easy

sometimes to create in a tournament like the IPL when you've got so many different players coming in from different parts of the world from different domestic teams as well to all come together for this seven or eight weeks and to have that bond is pretty special.

How do you create that team environment? Yeah, it's a good challenge but it's a great opportunity as well that you can create that bond. And I feel, first of all, respecting all different cultures and understanding like how different cultures work. Because I've traveled all over the world, so I know how overseas people work or how their mindset are all Indian boys work. So it's quite different. At the same time I feel that keeping the honesty transparency the trust going these are the basic things

which keep the trust and the bond in the deep and it's hierarchy right so what energy you're going to give from the top it's going to go through dawn so we make sure that that we keep our values intact and work on on them and keep the process going in those values. And talking of some of the younger players in your side as well, you know, the likes of who have come onto the scene in the IPL in the last couple of years have become stars in their own right, the likes of Prabstimran and Ashdip and guys like this,

how different is it for a young player like that coming into a competition like the IPL as opposed to when you made your debut, very different times, of course, you've been involved in Indian cricket for so many years now. How different was it for you compared to what it is like? for the youngsters now in terms of the support you get and their entry point into top-level cricket. I feel even that time as well the pressure is always there. It's a very individual thing, how individual things in their own head, how much pressure they do take in, how do they talk to themselves?

That is a very, very important thing. And when I came in the IPL team, I already played for India 19 and the Western cricket as well. at a decent exposure and when Narashti came so I don't know how much domestic cricket he played that time but he he handled himself quite nicely he is a very very confident boy soaks in the pressure quite nicely and see coming into a team is one thing and staying there it's another thing so it's take a lot of effort to maintain certain level of anything in relationship or in work to maintain that place and need lots of effort and time-to-time involvement

and I'm sure that all these youngsters are getting mature time-to-time and getting more smarter. Their cricket since getting smarter, their ability to read in the game is quite getting smarter as well. And one thing I suppose that hasn't changed is, you know, at all these years, is that the senior players perhaps have controlled over, you know, how the team relaxes and the sort of environment that is created. I mean, you're still in charge of the music in the dressing room. I've seen your social media videos. I know you like your Bungra tunes.

Is that the Frenchaping's dressing room? Yeah, I've got done interested with that thing. I used to. And Ash Deep now have taken over that role and he enjoys putting music and keep the vibe going

whether Bangra or hip-hop and yeah it's nice peppy songs are always there and yeah boys enjoy it like we are like after matches well we always have a team get together whether we win or lose you make sure we're getting together

and just being there and supporting each other in our success or in our losses as well. Yeah, one thing is for certain you guys seem like you're certainly enjoying your cricket so far once again this season. It's been a mixed start in terms of results to this season. So, Barr, how do you see where your side is placed at the moment and obviously very early days in the IPL season?

Another season where you'll be looking to make the playoffs, it's not quite happened for Punjab over the course, of the idea has it winning that trophy is that very much on your mind?

It's been it's quite long time that we haven't qualified for the playoffs or uplifted

property ever but that's in past and it's quite early in this tournament as cricket as we make sure

that we don't stress about that thing too much we make sure that a process is strong and keep on learning

from every game we just have been playing good cricket, just to improve 5-10% and playing close games. And yeah, the process is on, the discussion is on. So communication plays a huge role. And we've been communicating with the boys and telling our thoughts or they're telling their thoughts and coming to a nice solution or a better plan. And yeah, I believe that there's always lots of possibilities rather than just looking into the past. carry that baggage, it's better to leave that baggage there and have a fresh start

and vibrate on a high frequency where you attract better things for yourself or for the team as well. Now, your own in form has been pretty good at the start of this season. You've been scoring runs consistently over quite a few years in the IPL, of course, you know, at the top of the order there. How are you feeling about your own game at the moment? Look, you're of a similar age to me. Shikar, every time you take your top off in social media videos, you make men of our age quite envious in how good a shape you're in. You're feeling pretty fit, you're looking pretty fit, you're scoring runs. Is there any reason why you can't go on for another few years, like somebody that can amiss that. I'm an old dog now. I feel very good, less that my tournament has

started off quite nicely, sporting runs consistently. I feel that the experience plays a huge role. Actually, after IPL, last IPL, I haven't played much of competitive cricket for a whole season, whole year. And I just played one domestic local tournament to get myself before coming to the IPL to get myself into touch. As well as, I made sure that I kept my fitness going. That is very important that my body has to move very quickly.

Of course, I'm going to play 140, 150 speed. the reflexes has to be quick and so I kept the process going at the net sessions as well I had more about mental thing as well how you think how you feel about yourself and how much you

believe in yourself those are very very important ingredients as well attached to your performance and as experienced player you learn to back yourself in under pressure situation

you keep your calm your body language can be very very strong like my body language will be very strong but internally I'll be very very calm and I'll be thinking through that pressure situation okay what's the best I can move and yeah applying all that experience and enjoying the game enjoying the pressure so no plans of packing it yet you've not got a timeline of when you might decide to end up your bat I haven't planned it yet I will see when time will come

I'll get the dancer from internally and whenever I'll leave it I'll leave it if I don't want to leave it I won't leave it I won't leave it so yeah a lot of sports people say when you know you know

and you know that it will just hit you when it comes but look we hope you continue to score runs and entertain us in the IPL of course just with a quick eye on the T20 World Cup as well a lot of young Indian players are using this perhaps as an opportunity this season's IPL

to maybe show the selectors why they should be in that conversation for when that squad is picked. How do you see the younger Indian players in your franchise and across the IPL as well? And how big an opportunity is this for some of those guys to state a case for themselves? Of course, it's a very, very big opportunity, not just for an Indian team all over the world,

like so many players come and do well over here and get selected for their own respective countries. And especially for Indian team, yes, There's so many youngsters in IPLs who come and perform, like if we talk about Mayankyatta recently, who played against us and took three wickets. He's bowling really, really quick, and I feel that he got that expected in him.

And, of course, he's young, so selectors, I'm sure selectors must be observing all those performances. And I don't know that if they're going to select the boys for World Cup or not. Because in World Cup, you need experience as well. You need a lot of experience to handle the pressure. But, yeah, these performances in IPL makes a huge impact. And it opens big doors for playing for the national team. Stick out.

Thank you very much for joining us on this podcast. Best of luck for the rest of the season. And hopefully speak soon. Thank you so much, Nicky. Lovely speaking. Thanks a lot. Thank you. on the CMS podcast.

So that's Shika Darwin, keeping on going. It's a bit of a theme, isn't it? And not just in the IPL, and you see players like Jimmy Anderson and keep on going. And also players these days, because they are riches on offer for you, if you can keep on going in franchise cricket,

how high is it to just maintain those fitness standards? Or is it not quite so demanding? You can just keep going. No, I think it is very demanding in terms of your body mostly. But it's also the hunger. how badly you want to still do it. He's been there for 16 years now in the IPL,

so he's done it all. He's led teams. He's been phenomenal with the bat over so many years. But you don't know how long he's going to carry on. I mean, there was some rumors that it might be his last. As Dinesh Karthik, who's been there from the very start as well. There are few players who are featuring who have been there from the very start. Yeah, he's been an exceptional player, Shikhartha.

But it's just not these leagues any. more once you retire there are plenty of options now simon so you can play for the legends like you lots of options for him to play after he retires from here and he's already been sought after and have had some con heard some conversations regarding that as well so yeah we don't know okay abashette thanks very much and nikesh as well look out next week for our iPL podcast when we'll be hearing from south africa fast bowler kegiso rabada if you want all the details of what's

happening in this year's tournament head to the bbc sports website and app for score cards, tables and all the main stories. And on BBC Sounds, if you head to the Test Match special stream, you'll find a new episode of No Balls Live from the outfield at the end of England's women's tour to New Zealand. Also there, every Friday, there's a new edition of our County Cricket podcast with Kevin Howes. That's it for now. Thanks very much for listening.

IPL on the CMS Podcasts. Welcome to the Wild West of 1980s. wrestling, a world of chair throwing, blood spilling, steroid taking, and spandex wearing. Bruiser Brody was pulling in crowds all around the world. He would burst through the curtain and fans would scatter. But then, at the height of his fame, he's gone. In the dressing room before a match, Brody was nice in the abdomen. This is a story of unreality.

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