Test Match Special - The price is right? The cost of Test Cricket

Episode Date: September 1, 2024

Jonathan is joined by The Guardian's Ali Martin, Wisden Editor & Daily Mail journalist Lawrence Booth, the BBC's Chief Cricket Writer Stephan Shemilt, and Rex Clementine from The Island newspaper over from Sri Lanka to discuss the money involved in watching test cricket. They discuss the price of tickets, as well as the context of England men's test schedule and how low attendances reflect on test cricket in general.

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Time for our newspaper and website friends to join us to discuss the various issues that have been thrown up in the last week or so. Who have we got? We've got Ali Martin from The Guardian. We've got Lawrence Booth from the Daily Mail, also, of course, editor of Wizardan, he says deferentially.

Stefan Schemilt, BBC's cricket writer here. And Rex Clementine, good to have you here, Rex, and the island newspaper in Sri Lanka. Right, where do we start? I've been off the long run this morning. Not literally running around Regent's Park or something, but actually off the long run about what we can see in front of us here.

Thousands and thousands of empty seats. Lawrence. What do you reckon? What do you make of this? It's Sunday. It's Lord's. It's a beautiful day. It's a test match.

And there's, I don't know how many people are here, but it's not nearly enough. 100 or pounds or something to buy a ticket to come in. People said, no thanks. Yeah, it's not a good look. I was here a couple of Sundays ago. The final of the 100 and it was full. And I hate to make those comparisons.

but it's not a good look for test cricket. I think there are a couple of things going on. You mentioned the prices, though. It was clearly a factor, which will come back to that. But I think this summer was always going to be a difficult sell for English cricket. We had the ashes last summer. We've got Indian next summer. With respect to West Indies in Sri Lanka,

this feels a bit like the sort of wafer thin ham in the sandwich, really. And I think asking fans to keep shulling out is a challenge. I think the Basbal factor, dare we say it, is also interesting. I mean, the West Indies test here didn't get to lunch on the third day. There's a lot of hoopla about Anderson. That kind of covered up the fact that it was a short game. So people perhaps are not risking fourth day tickets for England games now because I'm not sure how much cricket they're going to get.

But I think, yes, the prices are an issue. And you can get refunded if you don't. If there isn't 25 overs or whatever. So you do get some money back. But do you, you know, what do you think? Well, it's not, it looks terrible, I mean, they flagged up 7,000 for today in advance. Perhaps the hope was that they wouldn't need a fourth day

and we wouldn't face this kind of situation. But 90-odd pounds for the cheapest ticket is a lot. They're saying under 16s are free, but at the risk of resurrecting the Kirsty Alsop debate, you probably need adults to come in with you. Yes. So I think that is a problem that they haven't resolved and they seem reluctant to drop the prices for the reasons you alluded to.

No, not a good look. Allie, what did you have this morning? Well, it's not a great follow-up to Old Trafford where the crowds were a bit thin there as well. I've been sort of sitting downstairs wondering whether actually peak cricket watching season, we normally talk about the score holidays, but actually with the Premier League having started a fortnight ago, is that perhaps it's between football seasons now, which is when we have the peak season. Next year, the test summer finishes on August the 4th, I believe. It's early, yes.

Yeah, which some people aren't that happy about. It's not a great look here for Lords, I don't think, also, because they have. have the World Test Championship final here next year, which that one is locked in, but the incoming ICC chair, Jay Shah, has made noises about moving that final out of the UK in future cycles. I think the fact that it's in June does give English cricket an advantage there. And I think Lords will be very keen to get the next two. I believe talks are underway at the moment. But the whole, that's all predicated on the fact that Lords is able to bring in a crowd, regardless of who's playing, even if it's not England, then there's the various

you know, the demographic of the UK should bring in a crowd. Two-thirds of the Sri Lankan population in the UK live in London. So one question I would have for MCC, and maybe if you do get someone on later, you could ask them, is have they done enough to reach out also to the Sri Lankan community here? Because, you know, Sri Lanka got a proud record in London. They've not lost in London since 91 in a test match. No. So, yeah, so there's a few things to consider there.

But as Lawrence says, and I think as we all agree, it's not a great look. No. And don't you have to accept that, Some of years, yeah, you're going to make loads of money. Australia, next year with India, you know, Ching, Ching, you can put your tickets higher than this. But there have to be used. If you really are trying to sell test cricket and trying to sell the game and trying to get people in to test cricket, not at 100 and not 220, but, you know, you do have to be flex all those prices, don't you? Absolutely.

And one of the phrases of this weekend has been dynamic pricing, hasn't it? Yes. Because of the huge queues for Oasis tickets that have been online, people going nuts for eight hours. watching it, you know, being frozen out of the website and what have you. But actually that is about kind of people are flagging where there's potential kind of price gouging where people who are waiting for so long that once they get to the front of the queue that the prices have gone up and the weight of they've invested so long. This is kind of the other way.

You'd like a bit of dynamic pricing in terms of if you can see a fourth day coming and you haven't shifted that many, as you say, that you have the credit card details of the people that have bought the existing tickets and if you feel the prices should come down, you could perhaps refund it. refund a small element of that to make it understandable when you drop the prices for the sort of general admission on the day. That's one factor.

Also, I would say that my understanding is that the Oval are also reporting a similar phenomenon for day four. Now that is a Monday. It's a Friday start at that third test. But as I mentioned, with that big Sri Lankan population in London, England playing test cricket may be looking for their first perfect summer

since 2004. Okay, it's not the ashes, but that really should be pulling more people in. Yeah. Rex, you're nodding. How much is it to get into a test match in Colombo these days? Actually, you know, I mean, Colombo's test matches are like, you know, free of charge because there are... And how many turn up?

Yeah, that's the other question. You know, I mean, not much of interest shown by people to turn up at the ground and watch the match. And, you know, people would be rather happy to watch it off the TV. But in Candy and Gau, there's a bit more interest. Right. And anyway, tickets for test matches back home are free. That's amazing. And so you must be scratching your head at the thought of people paying £100 to come in and watch a day of test cricket.

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, coming today out of St. John's Wood Station, every day, you know, I mean, it's like you see lots of people walking out of the station. But today was an exception, and I thought maybe, you know, I mean, later in the day, people would show up and a bit surprised that, you know, I mean, there are not many people here. But then I got to know that, you know, I mean, tickets have been, like, priced so high as well. Having said that Sri Lanka haven't played well as well. That may be one reason that keeps the Sri Lankan community away. I mean, from the moment they won the toss. They made some poor calls and, yeah, they've not been up to the mark

and that probably could be one reason as well. Yeah, that's fair comment. Stefan, do you think possibly some of the answer is because it's actually, as we said earlier by Lawrence, that this is kind of a very thin layer of ham. I can't how you use it. Way for thin ham in the sandwich, that was it. but we've kind of talked about that we've talked about this summer being the summer

of rebuilding for England because it is actually well it's Sri Lanka and West India's therefore it's a chance to look ahead to India and the ashes so maybe we've all talked it down a bit as well it's not just that I've just wondered for a little while if this summer would make the English

game wake up to the plight of test cricket across the world and for too long in England we have said we're okay we're selling out test matches. We don't need to worry about anything else. But if the whole economy of English cricket at the moment at least is based on the England men's team and having a great product, which obviously they have on the field, but selling outgrounds, making sure that, you know,

TV rights are maximised, England need teams to play and they need those teams to be competitive and well prepared and to provide good contests, not just in the years that Australia and India are here. And if every other year, those contests aren't going to be great because England and those other countries, India and Australia, haven't done their bit in making sure that everyone else is competitive. So I'd go back to rumblings in Australia, where in Adelaide they complained that they had back-to-back tests

against the West Indies and they didn't feel that was such a great product, a great sell. What are these big countries doing to make sure that all of those teams that come and play them all the time, are competitive and make spectators want to buy tickets for day four and all that now is coming home to roost and if it takes a half full or a quarter full lords for us to finally sit up and say we haven't done enough to make sure that everyone who plays test cricket is competitive what's about time yeah I guess what you can say is whereas whereas we as as as cricket correspondence

have talked about this summer as I said about being a rebuilding and an exercise to look ahead shouldn't administrators do that with their prices too? Well, actually, this is a lower-key sum. And I know the prices are cheaper than they will be next year for India and were last year for Australia. But they just seem to have got that level wrong. And you've got to take a hit sometime. Well, 30,000 at 40 quid, I suspect they'll be that have made more money than 6,000,

whatever they've made here. But I don't think administrators should work in that same sort of cycle in which the actual players do. Yeah, I mean, I think it is certainly a question of microeconomics, but also, as Stefan's saying, macroeconomics. You go back to 2014 when we had the big three coup, where England, Australia and India tried to carve up the game's finances to suit themselves. And there was a bit of kickback at the time,

but we've basically gone back to that now because last summer the ICC's redistribution of funds boosted India's share of the pie from sort of late 20% to nearly 40%. and most countries just stood aside and said yes please no problem at all because of course it's an old theme I think I talk about it every time I come on here but people are people bend over backwards to accommodate them because India run the show they bring in most money and everyone wants a tour from India no one wants to upset India because they need their visits to generate the broadcast revenue so but here we are

now as Stefan says we are sort of reaping to a degree what we have sown which is an imbalance in the game which probably goes back a decade or more what did we expect really. Did we expect even England fans who love test cricket to keep watching the sort of, I suppose, second tier test nations, if you like. There's a lot of talk about do you divide test cricket into two leagues of six? At the moment, Sri Lanka would be very much in that second tier. So would West Indies. So, you know, perhaps England got lucky by beating West Indies in seven sessions at lords early in the summer. We were spared a scenario like this on the fourth day. But this is something that the game has to get together and look at. We're going to keep not giving these teams the reason. resources that they need, then perhaps this is what we're going to get. I think my frustration, Ali, was mainly because we all love test cricket. We all are trying to make others who aren't aware of test cricket. We're trying to demonstrate this amazing game that has got so much depth to it. And yet, you see this, and like you said, the 100 final was full.

Well, great, okay, and that's 100, it's T20 cricket. We're trying so hard to say that this is actually, this is the ultimate. cricket, the test match, which if we're not careful, will be gone, and when it is gone, it won't come back. So I think that's the kind of the frustration behind it, and that you can't just keep trying to take money out of this sport, because it isn't strong enough to do that. No, and, you know, I'd say that, I mean, the health of test cricket in England is still strong. Today is, it's not a great look. The crowds in Old Trafford weren't great, but it is still test cricket, that pays the bills in this country.

You know, we have the broadcast deals set up as they are for cricket in this country, and the majority of those, the majority of that money, I should say, is generated by test cricket. You saw in the COVID summer of 2020 when there was fears that cricket might not get on at all, the ECB move moves heaven and earth

to get test cricket on. So it is still the bedrock of the game here. It just, as Lawrence has said, and as you alluded to, it's going to need a little bit more dynamic and nimble administration for the summers in between. looking in the round as the entire global game about that redistribution of wealth. I mentioned Jay Shah earlier, who's coming in as the ICC chair.

One aspect that he has spoken about is this potential test match fund, setting up a minimum payment of match fees for overseas players. England will also be paying Zimbabwe a touring fee for that one-off test here next summer. So it's looking at small elements like that and trying to build the thing overall. And I think, you know, the problem will be particularly acute in England if test cricket does sink because it is currently the bedrock. Yeah, absolutely. I just got an email here from Maria, from Norwich.

Hello, Maria. In total this summer, she writes, I've spent approximately £500 on cricket, and that is one ticket for the second day of the old Trafford test match, return trains between Norwich and Manchester, two nights in a Manchester hotel, two tickets for the 100 at Headingley,

bargain, she wrote. Return trains between Norwich and Leeds and two nights in a Leeds Hotel. All those trips worked out cheaper that are much shorter journey to London, staying one night to visit the Oval All-Lords And that's kind of the point And just the last word on this I think

Is it the idea of the 100 in particular I'm not going to go at that But the concept of it is to get new people Into watch test cricket What an opportunity this is To see A if that works And be to do it All these people that could be here

You know that this new tournament Is supposed to be attracted to test cricket What are they going to think When they see this ground on their television's deserted, you know? Well, I'm yet to be convinced that the 100 acts as a, you know, a gateway drug to the longer format. So that's one of the sort of selling points of an initial. I thought, well, great, if they make it work, good on them.

But there's been very little kind of overlap in the advertising. You know, sometimes the advertising for the 100 comes out and think, go on, sneak in a mention of the T20 blast, or there's a test match next week. Is there dynamic ticketing arrangements going on? Do people who came to the 100 final of the day? Were they given a discount for a day like this? when they suspect that there'll be, you know, not as many people coming through the gates or for the Oval.

You know, what's been going on there? That does seem like a missed opportunity. How much communication is there going on? I think that's a fair question to be asked. Right. Let's leave that alone, shall we? We've banged on about that. But it's a, yeah, when you sit here and you see it,

and you have our view here, for instance, there's no avoiding what you can see out there. Do we mention bad light as well? I mean, that came back to haunters again last night. I mean, do you think that, again, short form of the game is, is again really focusing the need on test cricket to be able to play through some bad light.

Steph, I know the threat out, yes. Play every test match with a pink ball. It's a real, to meet, I know, I know, I can see them. Every test match? Absolutely. If we can play day night test matches with a pink ball and those tests, so when England go to the ashes, next winter, they're going to play a day night test in Brisbane.

They will. And that test match goes towards the scoreline of the ashes. You don't get half a point in the series for them. that, it is one test match win. Last time, there was two day night test matches that counted two wins for Australia. If a pink ball is good enough to play a day night test match and that goes towards statistics, results, history of the game, why isn't the pink ball good enough to play every single test match?

Well, I'll just throw in there that because I think probably most of the players don't think it is good enough generally. So then don't play day night test matches. It's one or the other. Yeah. And I can tell you're not having it, Agnes. I think we'd have some short games in England with a pink ball. Maybe, but to me, it is a, or I don't like this idea, but it's another one that's been floated.

If a red ball can be changed when it goes out of shape after 40 overs, and it's literally just an umpire sticking his hand in a box and coming out with something that's completely different, why can't you change to a pink ball when the light's not good enough? It could do, again, it could have some quite dramatic impact on a game. But lots of things have dramatic impacts on a game, like cloud cover, like floodlights being on, all sorts of things and I'm being slightly playful I know you're

but my argument is that would be that precisely because it is dark and the lights are on and it's a bit murky you put a pink ball into that situation it's going to go all over the place

but teams can get the wrong end of the conditions at any point of a game can't they I just say if the pink ball's good enough to play one test match why isn't it good enough to play all test matches

any thoughts down there he says holding a red cricket ball on his hand at the moment Ali you got a readers in your hand there I'm not not sure what that one is actually oh it is at readers I kind of agree with what Stefan's saying although albeit a full-blown pink ball every single test

I would also agree with you Jonathan I think the standard of that ball needs to be improved before that idea can come in but yeah I don't necessarily have an issue with introducing a pink ball into a game in a bad light situation for the reason Stefan's given in terms of the ball changes that occur anyway and the swings in conditions

that can affect a game at any point I think the main problem is excessive caution by the umpires I mean I just thought it was ridiculous yesterday I mean England effectively were the ones who ended eventually because they didn't want to keep bowling spin they wanted to keep the ball relatively fresh for the seamers this morning I get that but it just seemed it was such a bad look the 100 final keeps coming up but would they've gone off in those conditions

switch the lights on and got on with it I think the sort of elf and safety perspective can go too fast sometimes in test cricket, and there are people who are drifting away, they could have had another hour and a half of cricket last night. Could you have a situation in which you carry on playing, bowl who you like, but you can't bowl any bouncers? Boil a bouncer, you're out of the attack.

Yeah, that's possible, but then I suspect we'd have more scenarios like we had yesterday where Olly Pope was, right, we can't do that, we don't want to bowl our spinners, let's go off. I just think that people are too cautious, the umpires are too cautious. And at the moment you see, there's one of those depressing sights in cricket when they sort of come together,

they're very slowly and look at their light meters, you know exactly what's coming, and the game grounds to halt, and again, it's not a good look. Test cricket can't afford these looks. Relatively soon, and certainly in our lifetime, bad light will have to be eradicated from the game, won't it? If you think of Test cricket being an entertainment product

and trying to compete against, firstly, other forms of the game and other sports and other forms of entertainment, and with people paying either good money on the ground or TV companies paying lots of money to show it, it's going to have to go. that someone's going to have to come up with something because eventually it's just unsustainable

for everyone to be walking off just because the light's got a bit gloomy. I know it's been part of the game for years and years, but it's something that's going to have to be solved. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Rex, thought on Sri Lanka. Preparation or lack of. Is that a difficult thing?

We're at the same situation with the West Indies. coming here as well. I mean, there's always a worry of yours that they wouldn't have had enough practice here? Yeah, I mean, the international calendar is so tight these days that, you know, I mean, there's hardly any time to play, you know, I mean, many warm-up games. When Sri Lanka came in 2002, they played five warm-up games

before the first test match. So by the time the first test started at Lodds, they had spent one month in England. And in that test match, they made England to follow on when that game ended in a draw. So yeah, I mean, ideally, you know, I mean, they're just, on this tour, they're just coming off after just one warm-up game. Ideally, you know, I mean, if they can get about two games or so, that will help players to sort of, you know, I mean, get more comfortable with the conditions. But then I thought although they lost the first test match, they fought well in Old Trafford.

But this game, you know, I mean, they've got their, some strong, you know, won the toss and should have batted first conditions. That was a strange one, wasn't it? Yeah, very strange one and also the fact that, you know, I mean, someone like coming in the Mendes is betting, I mean today will be probably betting at number eight. It's been the best bet of the tour and maybe, you know, I mean, they should have tried to move him up in the order a little bit. So yeah, they've got the, you know, I mean, some messed up and hopefully they'll get a few things right at the Overs. Okay. Let's bring Olli Pope into the conversation, shall we? Lawrence what have you been telling your reader about

about Olly Pope and his situation and how he finds himself at number three at the moment I think the captaincy is not quite a red herring but not far off it it was always going to be a short-term gig what it has allowed England to see is that he perhaps isn't cut out for the job which a few of us suspected in advance anyway I mean forget comparisons with Stokes

so those are always unfair but whether or not Pope has it in him to be a leader of men and an inspirer on the field. He's not actually bad tactically on the field. You know, he did quite well on the Spanker's first innings here. The key question for him is runs at number three and that is becoming an issue.

I think the captaincy has hasn't helped him. He talked about struggling to compartmentalised batting in captaincy before the game, which was an open and honest admission, but perhaps a surprising one. Yeah, Sean a bit too much light perhaps on his frailties and people have picked up on that inevitably.

His issue is that he, though he still has a good record at three, the average is over 40, strike rate of 73 and the basball era of 500. That's pretty good when you look at some of the number three's going back. He's so hit and miss that England can't rely on him. You know, 200 against Ireland was his highest score. People will do what they call root maths

where they take out his biggest innings and work at his average then. That's possibly a bit unfair. But against the big teams he's been struggling. Average is 11 against Australia, 20-something against India. And when he looks bad, he looks horrid. And the two dismissals here have not helped that debate. I mean, you know, awful pull shot in the first innings and then uppercut to deep point in the second.

So he hasn't yet convinced anyone that, A, he's captain, and B, he's our long-term number three. You've got ashes in 15 months' time, and England will want to nail that down. Isn't it surprising? I mean, number three, I've always viewed as having to be that really calm person because he could be out there in the second ball of the innings,

not for one, a bit of chaos in the dressing room, and you send him out, and he sort of soothes the situation. The opposition are all up, they're jumping around, they've just taken a wicket and everything's... So I just go out there and be really calm and just play. And that doesn't look like Olly Pope. He is a jittery starter, but I don't know, I don't know that's an alley,

is why he hasn't really made an effort just to play those first 20 balls. Let's give those 20 balls to the bowler. Just play. but he still has to I don't know he's sort of fidgety and imposing himself

yeah and this England team have flipped with a few conventions but I think one of the sort of truisms of number three kind of

holds firm here is that you do probably want a calm head out there and actually some of the I mean I'm setting the bar very high here

by bringing up some of the great number threes but a player like Ponting would almost walk out and own the space immediately

which would actually almost lessen the value of the wicket just taken and you'd kind of you know because he would immediately be out there

as a presence and Pope I mean he He says that, you know, when I score runs, you call me busy. And when I don't make any runs, you call me sort of frenetic or, you know. So I do understand that side of it. I'm not, you know, I don't have test runs myself. But when I watch his defence, I see him jammed down on that ball and off stump with an angled bat.

And it's very strange when you see a number eight like Gus Ekinson playing such a pure straight back to those deliveries. It's pretty harsh to compare him to his Surrey colleague there. but so there are areas that I think he can work on there he also tends to start series in some as well but kind of fades and whether there's an exhaustion there that kicks in and you know for that reason yeah it is a valid talking point I suspect England will keep faith because they like to keep faith having said that

if you know there will be positions that they'll be talking about as they try and sort of hone this team for next year sorry Rex to say to treat him for Lancelaga But you know what I mean? They are looking to build in this second phase of Brendan McCullum's four-year contract

and nail down that team for what is a sort of huge finale. And Ollie Pope needs to address a couple of issues to make sure he's part of it. It's frustrating as it can play, can't he? You know, we see his hundreds,

with Port Elizabeth's century. I mean, you see the way you can bat. Absolutely. And in his favour next week as a return to the Oval, which is obviously where his figures are outstanding. So maybe that can kind of,

he can put things to bed there for a while before that Pakistan tour because he'll want to be part of it. And he was a key part of that win 3-0 there 18 months ago. Mention of whiteball coaches and coaches in general there. Stefan, you've been busy today writing a piece about McCullum

and the white ball team. Now, because there is a gap there. We've got Marcus Descothic as an interim thing. Is this just a sort of a think piece that you think this ought to happen? Or is it something that you think will happen? I'm not for one second saying it will happen. But I do think if England are looking around for the best coach to take on the whiteball team,

there's a very good chance that he's already in the dressing room. And I know that the obvious stumbling block to that is the schedule and the fact that Brendan McCollum lives in New Zealand. But I do think that a two-tier or a split coaching role ends up creating a bit of a two-tier system, especially when you've got split captains. And the two times that England have done it, both recently and 10 years ago, when it was flower and giles it just seems that the white ball team sort of gets left behind that the test team gets pick of the players and everything else and because the red ball set up

is so settled everyone wants to be in it i think the white ball team would like a like a piece of that and england schedule rob key said it himself when he was interviewed on the tv the other day that after this christmas because between now and then the schedule is very is tight after that it does ease out. It would be, I think, fairly simple for McCullum to be the sort of coaching Supremo and some of his assistants dip out for certain tours. I think that would be a really good thing for the likes of Triscothic and Collingwood and maybe another assistant coach that they could bring in because English cricket

has been really poor at turning our best players into head coaches. England go to New Zealand on the next two winters anyway. There's a test tour this winter. There's a white ball tour next winter. the sort of subject of extending Brendan McCullum's contract hasn't happened yet but this might be his next to last test match at Lords for England next year is his last home summer I think he's told you Agers quite a lot that he thinks he's got the best job in the world well if he thinks he's got the best job

in the world can England coax another two years out of him and maybe give him responsibility for everything we shall see gentlemen thank you very much thank you very much indeed how we enjoy the rest of your tour Rex and things go well for you at the Oval. Thanks to you down that end. Lovely to see you as always. Thanks to Stefan. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.