Test Match Special - The Tuffers and Vaughan Cricket Show

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

Mark Champan, Phil Tufnell and Michael Vaughan bring you the latest news from the world of cricket, as the coronavirus pandemic continues to impact the sport. With professional cricket currently off ��� which area will feel it most? The County Championship, the Royal London Cup, the T20 Blast, England's Tests, ODIs or The Hundred? And once we're through this crisis, what could the domestic game look like? Will it have changed at all?

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On 5 Live Hello and welcome to the Tuffers and Vaughn Cricket podcast Phil and Michael are both with us Are you okay Michael? Are you safe? You well? Yeah, safe in the house Yeah, I've just been going about

day-to-day business with the family Lots of kind of just Well today I was the school teacher That didn't go down very well I have to say within 50 minutes I put one in detention so I'm not the best of teachers but doing as I hope

everyone else is locking themselves away staying indoors going on the odd walk with the dogs we've got a new rabbit so the rabbit's here with me now that's pretty much it it's just batting down the hatches now chap is in it I hope everyone else is joining the same

Phil are you okay yes not too bad mate as you say me and Dawn have just been doing exactly the same batting down the hatches I got the creosote out today and was doing the garden fence but apart from that I've just been trying to abide

by the guidelines and what's being told as you say very very strange times at the moment chap is old boy they really are and if you're only listening to the cricket part as we say we'll try and find the balance between talking about how a sport is affected by everything that's going on and hopefully maybe put a smile on your face

as well before half past eight we're massively touched on on cricket really until Saturday and spoke to Jonathan Agnew, spoke to Derek Bowden the chief exec of Essex because obviously the season hasn't started yet so maybe there are less

pressing concerns about who will end up as the winners or who might get relegated but the fact that it hasn't started maybe Michael means there isn't the same flexibility actually for cricket as there is for some of the other sport yeah i mean i think the ECB have acted in the right fashion and obviously um have stopped all cricket up until may the 28th and they'll obviously day to day week to week just keep assessing the situation

um you know the outcome of winners at this day it's just irrelevant isn't it when you start talking about you know who might get relegated or who might be you know involved in the hundred later on in the summer you know will the west indies come over in june for that test match series you know cricket like many sports but you know it's so reliant on TV and you know whatever happens over the next you know 12 weeks you know cricket will be crossing its fingers

that you know we can I don't think we'll ever going to get rid of the virus completely but you know it can be calm down and you know hopefully later on in the summer cricket will be able to get played as will you know hopefully many other sports and if it's behind closed doors it's behind closed doors because you know cricket

as I said like most sports is so reliant on the TV revenue and a whole summer of cricket wiped out without that TV revenue for the game I honestly don't know where the game will be in a year's time if that happens so hopefully later on in the summer as I said if it's behind closed doors

it's behind closed doors it for me doesn't really matter you know the kind of cricket doesn't really matter how much cricket in a way for the ones that you know the county game unfortunately is kind of put on the backburn of the championship because you know cricket needs those TV games to happen and let's hope we can get to a stage where we can get some cricket played and as I said

it's behind closed doors that that's fine by me yeah yeah couldn't agree more might as to say I mean I think it's just unreasonable I think that we're going to have any sort of form of you know four-day games test matches as you say the new hundreds coming out there's just not enough time is there there won't be enough time so I think things are going to have to be prioritised you know what that will be, I mean, I can't particularly see the West Indies coming over here, can you, in the test matches? So I think it's just going to be whatever we can get.

We're going to have to just go along with, isn't it? Simple as that. And what are about the players? What are they all doing now? How are they going to be sort of like preparing or not? Everything's just been completely put on hold, which is totally understandable. Most of the county lads are ready to go. I mean, and they're ready to start in a couple

of weeks' time. And, you know, if you go on social meeting, you see, you know, many of them interacting, whether it's on Instagram or Facebook, they're all trying to keep themselves active. But, you know, sports people I live in there, as you do, Chappas, there's lots of footballers, and the only time actually I've seen them over the last few months, there's been

this last week where you just see them walking, you know, in small groups of the families walking around the streets just to get a little bit of fresh air. And, you know, the cricketers were ready to go in a couple of weeks' time. And, you know, I just, you know, it's not a time to start feeling sorry for sports people, but, you know, this will have

a massive effect on the game. I really do fear for, you know, county players, you know, that everyday county cricketer that might be on his last year of his contract, you know, and if, as I said before, the TV games can't happen and all of a sudden, you know, the ECB have to give some of that money back to Sky, the BBC, because those games haven't happened, there's going to be a massive knock on effect in the next year or two for contracts. Staff would, I'm pretty sure, be reduced. Budgets in the game are tight as it is. The cash reserves from the ECB, which was a decent rate a few years ago.

has gone because of, you know, the money that's been spent on the 100. So it's so important in a way that, you know, there is some cricket this summer. It is on TV and the game's not giving back a lot of that TV. Again, it's secondary to what's happening in the country and around the world. But for the game of cricket, it's so important that that money comes in. I can't even see it, though. I mean, people are saying about behind closed doors and things like that, but how is that going to happen?

You know, I mean, obviously, you know, no crowds and what have you, but there'll be people, you know, coming together. There will be people in dressing rooms. There'll be people in this, that and the other. You know what I mean? I just can't see how it's even going to happen even if it's behind closed doors. I think in a funny way, when you think that the first test match against the Westerners is June the 4th, I think there may be other sports that may have been played behind closed doors by then,

i.e. the Premier League. I've been reading all about what's going to happen in football in the Premier League. and it's maybe this 10-day window where they play all, they play over, I think it's six weeks that they play all the games. I've read so many articles about it.

There's all these different kind of scenarios that that may play out. It may be that other sports try this behind closed doors before cricket has to make a decision and, you know, as I said, it's secondary to what's going on,

but it's so important for the game of cricket that TV money can. I think the game can survive without the revenue of the... No, but I think it can survive the summer if there wasn't a team, ticket sold, if you know what I mean. I think it can survive as long as the TV money comes in. If that TV money does not come into the game of cricket, I think we're in for some really

dark time over the next few years. And obviously, you know, whilst it is secondary to everything else that's going on, when you talk about the county cricketer who is financially dependent, and as I mentioned when talking about the football, there are people who work in, you know, the counties who are financially dependent, who will be worried about their jobs. In the same way, that's the case when we've discussed super. League on Five Life Sport, when we've discussed rugby union on Five Life Sport and other sports as well, if the TV money was to come in, you know, if some of the sports have started

may be behind closed doors, test matches will be difficult because I would imagine touring sides will not want to come here for a while. So if you're looking, if you're looking domestically at what you can get on behind closed doors, is it the blast and the hundred? Are they the two priorities going forward? I think it is, and I think it's just to get something out there and just to give people a respite from just sitting indoors all the time. You know, something's got to be put out there. So if there was anything that was going to be prioritised for me, it would be that,

as I say, in some way, shape or form. And I don't know how that might say, you know, I don't think all the overseas players would come over and what have you. And, you know, because, well, we don't know, do we? I mean, we don't know whether the borders are going to be opened up and all this, and there's people going to be moving around the world, let alone the country. But if anything, I think that they should perhaps prioritize, yeah,

the 100 and the past for sure. Yeah, they're the TV games, chappers. You know, the vitality blast on a Friday night, then the 100. If there can't be any international cricket, again, let's wait and see over the next few weeks what pans out. But if there isn't any international cricket, yeah, they're the priority, the vitality blast on the 100, That's the big check, if you like, from the TV, Sky, the BBC.

That's what they've paid the money for. But, you know, you're looking at the international game. You know, you've got three test matches against the West Indies. You've got to have it, not going to happen, Mike, are they? No, you can't see it. And obviously, overseas players for the 100, all the stars that would sign it at this stage, I think it's very unlikely that they would be able to come into the country to play in that tournament. So it will be a different field.

But again, it's unprecedented times. it's irrelevant to me who plays and who doesn't. I just think from the game of cricket as a whole, it's so important that there are some games that are played on television this summer because without that money, I dread to think where, you know, the counties, we know that counties for many, many years, have been living on a real tight budget, this new TV deal and the fact that they were going to get more because of the 100

and it's been that negotiation with the counties. So in a way, the counties this year were almost a bit richer because they've got more of a chunk of the pie. But if that chunk of the pie is not going to the ECB, they're not going to get it. And I'm pretty sure a lot of the counties will have budgeted as you would as in a business for that money to come in. And if it doesn't come in, I dread to think where some of the counties are going to be.

I don't think it necessarily matters if, as you say, if the big superstars or overseas superstars. I think it's just important that we try to get some sort of format out there and back on the telly as simple as just try and sort of cobble something together. really. I know that sounds a bit extreme and what have you, but I mean, hopefully in the months to come, things might all sort themselves out a little bit, and we might be going

sort of like over this peak and sort of on the upturn a little bit. But I think it's just important to get something out there. I mean, as you say, Chappas, you might have to get the whites on, boy. You might have to get the whites on. The colours, actually. The formats we're talking about, the 20 hours and the 100, it's the colours.

I wouldn't have any problem to do that behind closed doors, but then for it to appear on television would be a completely different prospect. Before I come on to how they might then format that, whether it be the 100 or the blast or whatever it may be, it's also probably fair to say that the game and what it decides to do this summer

won't be operating on its own. I'm guessing governing bodies are going to be talking to each other because where and when the IPL is scheduled, for example, would have an effect on a. everything else. And, you know, it would also affect whether players travel again, wouldn't it? That's going to have a knock-on effect. Yeah, I mean, the IPL is an interesting one. Clearly, it's not going to take place any time soon. And their schedule was April, May. Now, India being India, and that IPL is worth so much money to them, that there's no way

I can't see them just going, right, we'll just scrap this year and we'll come back next year. They'll try and fit it into some part of the calendar. You know, and there's a whisper, again, it's only a whisper, that they potentially may look at July August, you know, that's the 100 in the UK, you know, West Indies series, just probably finishing, and then you've got Pakistan, there's probably the two teams that could get away with that, you know, in terms of the global world game, England and Pakistan playing against each other and the hundred, because, you know, the Indians have kind of go, well, that's fine, Pakistan players aren't allowed to play in the

IPL anyway, and there's a few obviously in the England camp that play in the IPL, but, you know, it's not as key in a way. The players will miss out on the big check, but for the game, I think England would carry on and play in this country that they possibly could. If they get to that stage

where Pakistan would be allowed back into the UK to play in that series. But India will want that IPL to take place, Chapas. I just can't see it and understandably because it's worth so much. They're not New South will come back next year.

They will try and fit it in somewhere in this year's calendar. I mean, the counties, the counties might even just be playing in the 100 or something. You don't know what I mean? They're going to have to find some format that fits into the sort of the structure

of what there is left of the scene. There's enough players, Phil. There's enough players to fit into the nine teams. There's enough players. And there's many county players, obviously that didn't get the gig. And it might create an opportunity for a few that necessarily wouldn't have got that chance

to play in the 100. But, you know, we'll wait and see. Let's just wait and see how it pans out. But at this stage, it's more the financial side of the game that really concerns. me because it's just so important cricket. It is like rugby league, is like rugby union chappers, that we are

so dependent on that check from the TV. I guess the Premier League's very similar, but they've got that much money in football. You feel that it could survive a few months without it or even if they scrapped it, I still think football. Not lower down, I don't think. Not the lower down. And you could probably say,

lower down is like county cricket, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Division 1, 2, that is like the county game. And, you know, some of those clubs won't survive. And it'll be very similar in cricket that if, you know, the game hasn't got that fun it's easy to say, you know, the ECB can bail them out, they've got all these cash in the background. They haven't, those reserves have gone.

There's not much in the reserve time because they've had to spend so much in getting this 100 ball competition up and running. In a funny sort of way, the 100 ball could be the safe if it comes out. You know what I mean? That could be the one thing

that actually then does generate a little bit of something that they can put into the coffers because as you say, nothing else is going to be. coming in, I could assure you. I just can't see it happening. I thought your point was quite interesting there, Phil, about you might end up having sort of counties playing in the 100. But I suppose what's quite interesting there is you go, okay, we were going to launch this brand new competition this summer and it is a joint

TV deal between the BBC and Sky. But look, the BBC will have slots to show some live games. What's happened globally with coronavirus has restricted a lot of the superstars coming over but you know the blast fulfills a very very important role within the county game maybe we postpone the hundred for a year the BBC takes some of the blast you have Sunday afternoons and Friday nights and whatever it is and you work out a tournament that way as we keep saying it's not a massive thing in the big picture of things but these are probably options that will be being discussed well I think they've just got to work out something haven't they as you say everything we're so in the dark about what's going to happen within the

next two, three, four months or what I haven't, but they've got to have some plan in place that there could be something to give the general public on the telly, you know what I mean, and also employ some of the cricketers and what have you, because, you know, you can't, you know, all these great big plans and everything are just being, everything's shifting every day, isn't it? And so they've got to have something in place that they can think, right, hold on a minute, let's get a time scale together, let's get something actually together or a plan B, so to speak, and see, if needed, that. there will be something there that we can deliver.

Yeah, I mean, if, you know, just to Dan Rohnard about the Olympics, if you think about it, if you're starting to think about the Olympics being moved to year, and then you're looking at the Euro has been moved to next year,

don't be scared cricket of moving a tournament to next year. Yeah. Don't be scared that the 100 might have to start next year because we're in unprecedented times. It's not a time to start. Oh yeah, but we need this 100.

If it is that you have to just take a backwards stay and go, you know what, there's no way we can launch a new tournament this summer. Take it on a chin a bit. With everything that's going, no overseas stars can get into the country, do we really want to launch this? You know, and the ECB has spent so much money, and it'd be gut-wrenching for them. It couldn't happen this year.

But do you want to launch a new tournament with the fact there won't be any overseas stars allowed in? Clearly, it's going to be diluted. You may have to play behind closed doors. It's not about that. It's about a new audience coming in, you know, being this new Rasmataz around the game.

Just don't be scared of saying, look, okay, the Euros have moved to next year, the Olympics have moved to next year, the Masters Golf got canned. Don't be scared of doing something a little bit drastic, which may have to happen, I'm afraid, for the game. Yeah, but then also, yeah, don't be scared just to then dilute it. If it is possible to get something live on the TV, I think, you know, I mean, I can't keep watching FA Cup. Well, I can't keep watching FA Cup highlights from 1987. I love Cyril Regis grabbing a goal against Forest the other day. Good volley, on it. And the pitches, the pitches.

How did they get a decent pass across anywhere? Chappas, you'll be the same. My lad, Archie, he's 14. He was watching that, not as far as with Martin O'Neill played in the middle of the park. I saw it, yeah. He was watched that, go, look at the pitch. Look at the pitch.

They didn't wear shinies. They didn't wear shinies. Well, I was saying earlier to Ian and Chris on, I watched with my son, Ben, I watched the Jimmy Greaves documentary. yesterday that had been on BT, which we hadn't watched. And you talk about the picture in the 80s, goodness me, go back

to the 60s and the 70s and watch Jimmy Greaves there. It was unbelievable. There is... But it could be... Yeah, but there might be a need, if you know what I mean. I don't want to sound, I don't want to sound, you know, like, oh, God, scaremongering or anything, but there might be a need

just to sort of say, come on now, everyone, we've got something live to watch. Yes. You know what I mean? There is a, you know, I mean, goodness me, on Sky Sports main event, I said, for 15 minutes, I watched virtual motor racing for the, you know, which had... I've been going to go to those virtual dinner parties. It was like the Bahrain Grand Prix, but it had Chris Hoy in it and from,

and Nile from one direction, I think. I think Ian Porter was driving for someone, wasn't it? So there is a demand for content. So, you know, the point being, is that if you go, do you know what, the 100, we just can't do, and I have no insight into what BBC Sports are saying or anything like that. But if they're going, you know, we just can't get the 100 up and running this year, but we've got these 18 first class counties.

We normally have something called the blast. But let's work on a format involving our 18 counties and a T20 competition, and Sky and the Beeb can share it in whatever way, and then there's some cricket. And get something together. Get something together that we can stick on the table. which people will. Listen, as you say, people, I don't think anyone's going to be sitting there going,

oh, that wasn't a very good reverse sweep. You know what I mean? I think they'll just be delighted to see some competitions and the boys running about, you know? Just think it, just take a back step in a little bit and just so, if that happens, the whole of the country who like cricket will go,

why are you actually bringing the 100? Well, because it's something we can do. It'd be a great format. Everyone will enjoy it. It's on the, you know, if you can get it on terrestrial as well and you get Sky in partnership Exactly, get it on the 100th.

Fantastic. That's great. But you know, you've got to look at it from the ECB perspective that they've put all their eggs into this 100 basket and they know that if it doesn't come out this year. As I said earlier, if they have to make the big decision and take it to next year, they'll have to do that. But they will desperately want it to take place this year because they'll know that you know all the, you know,

the hatred against it from many in the game. You know, particularly the county members, they're saying, why did you need it in the first place? So if you, the first time of asking, you can't bring it on and you suddenly have this other tournament and everyone go, well, that's fine. Why have we spent all those millions

on the 100 the year after so? You can kind of understand it from their perspective, but this is a situation. I'm hoping will never, ever happen again. So I don't think you can say that should happen, that should happen. I think they've just got to take a backward step over the course of the next few weeks

and just really take a breather and say, what is the best thing for the game? And that's going to be a hardest thing that the ECB do. Well, well, the best thing for the game is then to try and get some live cricket on the telly, simple as that, isn't it? Well, they'll say if you can get live cricket on the telly, why not make it the 100? Well, there you go. So I don't think it matters.

Whatever sort of format it is, but if it's allowed to be played close doors, as we keep saying, we don't quite know what's going to be happy or anything. The best thing for the game is to actually get the game being played, isn't it? It's as simple as that, and that's what they've got to look to do. Just on the wider cricketing community, as well, you know, we're talking about the counties. And for several of the counties, you know, Lancashire being my county down the road here,

you know, their income doesn't just come from cricket. And, you know, just think of all the counties who, you know, Lancashire have got a hotel, of course. But, you know, the hospitality suites that are used by people for parties or weddings or whatever. And all of these income streams, as they are for so many businesses, are disappearing. So just away from the country,

the cricket side of things, there are all these financial concerns for the county as well because their facilities aren't being used. It's across the country, isn't it? It's across the country that people are feeling it. I mean, as you said, I'm involved with sort of a little bit with Paragon, which is sort of like a sports management and entertainment and events. We haven't got anything to sell.

You know what I mean? It's as simple as that. It's just gone completely quiet. So that if there's no cricket, there's no barman, there's no beer to be drunk, There's no this to be drunk. So all these things are just having a massive knock-on effect at the moment. So, yeah, I mean, you could even see counties going under, really. Yeah, absolutely.

But always when you start talking about the county, you always start, you know, the derbies and the Lesters. But actual fact, those, you know, the smaller counties, they might be fine because they just are so reliant on that ECB check. Whereas the big account is that, as you said, Chappas, they have the hotels, they have the big events, they have the concerts. And they will have budgeted this year for that.

coming in. Yeah. Now, if you take the chunk of, look, Lancashire, a fantastically run club and they've got

so many income streams that I'm sure they'll be fine, but if you look at this year's budget for Lancashire, I don't know who's coming to sing, I don't know what the big band that...

The killers are meant to be there at the end of May, yeah. Yeah, so that would have been budgeted in. Yeah, that would have been budgeted in and, you know, you've got that,

the point that has so many events. I did one for them three weeks ago. That was fantastic, fantastic, Cricket Expo, we'll put on by Warren Hague, it was a tremendous event for the game of cricket. You know, and you can look at the hotel, you look at the car park, you look at Manchester United when they play home, which it brings into the ground. You know, there's bigger clubs that have actually got huge kind of expenditure.

And if that's not coming in, well, it's going to be a real tough time for the bigger clubs. Not just the easy target. You say, oh, the north, the derby's, the Lester, they'll struggle. Well, they probably don't have any kind of thing like the expenditure of some of the bigger clubs. club, so it's going to be real challenging times for them all. For sure, and sport has been the first thing that's being completely wiped off of it, hasn't it?

Simple as that, that has been the first thing to sort of like, oh, right, no one, you know, all this social distancing, all these mass gatherings and things like that, right, well, okay, sports gone, simple as that, and we've got to find a way of getting it back, so man. And for the amateur game as well, you know, we're all aware of, we're all aware of, you know, how county

cricket's facilities are used by, you know, academies and kids and schools and so on and so forth and, you know, club cricket throughout the summer could easily disappear under, depending on how the situation worsens or improves or what we're told to do over the course

of the summer. And that then means those small clubs that get subs off people and so on and so. Last week I was at a couple of local clubs and they've paid to have all their dressing rooms redone. They've put a balcony

on one small club. They've done the bar up on the reason that they thought that the money would come in around April, May and June. So they've almost spent the money that they felt they were going to earn through the bar takings and the subs, the memberships. And clearly that's not going to come in. So there's going to be many, many small, as you say, recreational clubs that are going to be in real difficulty over the next year or so. Do you think, I mean, a lot of sports are taking their time and waiting and waiting. and in many ways cricket can be no different, can it really? But where cricket unfortunately loses out here

is that there's only a finite amount of time that a cricket season can play because of the weather and that is going to be a big disadvantage to it. Well, you can't fit everything into that small space of time. It's hard enough when you've got the season, sort of a regular season, people are moaning about, you know, we can't do this, we're always playing here, we're way too much and this, like that,

the other, so things are going to have to be gone and it's about prioritising if we have a chance to get some sort of cricket going, you know, this season, what is it going to be and what's going to be the best for the country to view, I suppose? I think, if possible, I think it would be

reasonable for the ECB to push things back. So we talk about the 100, you know, I think it starts July the 17th. Could it be that it gets pushed back to August? Just now, just say, look, we're going to look to change the schedule, this is what's going to happen. The Pundra will get It'll start back August, the 15th, the summer, then going to September.

You know, we all know in this country that, you know, the weather in April can be just as bad as it can be in September. So can we extend the season by two or three weeks? Even if it goes into the first week of October, all right, it's October. It's never been done before. But you know what? Who cares? It's a season that we really can't be thinking about what's been doing the past.

Just before we go, Neil, one of many people who ask whether your new bunny is called Tuffers. I don't think it is, but that's fair. Listen, thank you very much to you both. Both of you stay safe. Tough as and Vaughn's Cricket Show on Five Live. Alan Shearer and Ian Wright are in my kitchen. What's going on here?

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