Test Match Special - The World’s Fastest bowler – A Shoaib Akhtar Special

Episode Date: August 9, 2020

Isa Guha and Aatif Nawaz spend a lively half hour with the first man to break the 100 miles per hour barrier Shoaib Akhtar. Shoaib enjoyed a colourful 14 year international career with Pakistan and has since become an outspoken media performer. He discusses that famous fastest ball at the 2003 World Cup, shares memories of famous battles with Ricky Ponting, Sachin Tendulkar and Andrew Flintoff and he reveals how he thinks he’d be able to dismiss Virat Kohli these days.

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I'm Isha Guha and welcome to a special bonus TMS podcast. We're bringing you a feature interview with one of the biggest characters in Pakistan cricket. Shoeb Ahtar enjoyed a colourful 14-year international career, taking 178 test wickets and 247 in One Day internationals. He also famously became the first bowler to break the 100 mile an hour barrier. Following his retirement, Shoeb has become an animal. outspoken commentator, famous for his strong views across social media. Well, Artiv Noirz, who will be joining the TMS team for the next two tests and I,

had the good fortune to spend some time with Showard. Prepare for a lively half an hour. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, very, very pleased to be joined now by one of the true box office attractions of cricket, the fastest bowler in the history of the game, the Ravel Pindy Express, Shoeb Akhtar. Shoeb, great to have you on with myself. And Isha is going to be joining us a bit later.

She's got one of the busiest schedules in world cricket, but she will be here very, very shortly. How are you? Good night. How is this lockdown treating you in Pakistan? Getting more fitter, getting more leaner. I'm getting sick of it now. So I just want this lockdown to be over now,

as soon as possible, so I can travel. Those biceps are looking strong, Shoebai. What are you doing for those biceps? They are lean now because I was training hard and working hard. I am basically stressing my lungs as much as a crayon and I could. So what I did is I just ran a lot. I did cycle a lot. So I made the most of it by on my own.

You know what's interesting is you mentioned running there. I know because I've read your book, controversially yours. It's just a fantastic read. So anybody who hasn't read it, I highly recommend it. You talk about running a lot and it being a huge part of your life right from growing up. Before even cricket, you were a sprinter. What was it about running that engaged you so much? It takes you to the zone.

You know, once you ran about somewhere about three to four kilometers in a very good pace, and then you get into some kind of a different zone. My anger management has to be taking care of by running. In terms of I used to run to take my anger out, a frustration out of it, my depression out of it. So I used to run for it. I still do. So what I suggest to other people who do,

doesn't run, they should actually go out there and, you know, stretch yourself as much as you can. You know, just like get into zone where, you know, you feel it is important that, you know, you switch off everything when you're training. Your heart rate should be about 180, 190 plus. It should not be, it shouldn't be anything in between you and your training. And someone's trying to distract you in that zone, you know, you should give a tough time to those people, you know, because this is your time that you reconciliate with yourself. You know, I used to reconciliation with myself. And I used to think about my future plans, what I'm going to do about it,

how I'm going to do about it. And I used to take my anger out by running and sprinting hard. And at the same time, I used to get the result of my questions that I had from myself, whether I'm going to be able to go through it or not. I used to get it after running. This is what running used to do it for me. That's incredible. That's very good. You've inspired me to go running straight after this, I promise you. But probably not to 180 heart rate. You know what? My heart rate would go to 180 when I was watching you run in, Shwebay and bowl for Pakistan. You know, you had this incredibly long run-up. And, you know, this is at a time where a lot of bowlers were shortening the run-up. I used to run in from a really long, long way away. What was the thinking behind that really long run-up? What was your kind of psychology behind it? It gives me the feel.

I used to imagine myself not bowling with the shorter run-up. I never imagined myself. When I lost, beginning to lose my knees back in 97, then I thought I shot my run-up, but I tried it, I lost my pace. I could not get the rhythm right. I could not get the jump right. At the same time, I was laboring with the shorter run-up.

Though I should have done it. But at the same time, you know, the run-up is not the rap. was hurting, it is the landing who's hurting. It is the pounding that I was getting hurt by it. You know, it is the way I used to land on my left knee. That is the whole pressure of my body comes on the left knee, and then I probably transform my weight on the one toe,

and I started to break my bones. I started to break my knee and my legs, my fibolas, and my hip bones, and my back. So it was the landing who killed me. It's not the big long run-up. But the long run-up used to give me the linear structure, it used to give me the rhythm, it used to make me feel the air, I used to run along with the wind, it used to give me a lot of pleasure because you know that

I was a runner. I'm still running. So the running, it gives me the field that I'm free, even on the field. So that's why I never shot my runner. That's incredible. And you know, you bowled alongside some of these great cricketers, some of which I imagine were your heroes growing up. But who were your cricketing hero show, by? Like, when you grew up watching cricket, Who were the cricketers that you watched that inspired you to get involved with the game? There is a lot, a lot of people I used to admire. I used to admire everybody because I enjoy talent. I enjoy talent in terms of, you know, when people are going out there, you know, performing at the best,

and they're delivering at the best of the capacities. You know, I used to love it, you know. Someone used to give it a go at me in terms of, you know, you used to take me on. I used to love it. Tell me, you know, of all of these amazing players that you play, alongside and you know these great friendships that you had who were your favorite people to hang out with out off the cricket field definitely wasaimakram i think he's a great company shayyat's a clan there's many people i used to go out with and but i i was a basically long

ranger i'm a bit of explorer so what i did is i explored kazimbs i explored places the rotness island to is isle to chopper rides to you know cycling to to the different mountains so i used to be a lone rangers. So I enjoyed playing cricket with my team match, but I never enjoyed hanging out after the match with my teammate. So, Shab, you mentioned the motorcycle and, you know, going for those lone rides. And, you know, I've read about this and I've seen interviews about this. You talk about the film Mukadda Gassikandr and the song Mukadha Ghanda, you know, you really, really like it. What is it about that song you like that gets you kind of jeed up when you're on a motorcycle? It gives you the liberating feeling that you're free again. You know, the hair's flying out,

at the same time the wind blowing your face and you're speeding up towards something which is unknown destination and that's where the motorcycle takes you and i never planned my destination i just enjoy the journey that i take so it was the cycle before that and then the motorcycle it gives me the extra wings i wanted to get uh somewhere but this is the you know this is the convince that i used to have that you take me to the places. I used to go to the one place in the morning, the motorcycle, allowed me to go to the other place to practice. And then I became a net bowler for the South Africans.

So the South African came up to me. I remember very clearly, there's one gentleman called Gary Christen. And it's Jonti Rhodes. They said, would you like to be a good net fast bowler against us in the nets? I said, yes, sir, I can do that for you. And very soon you'll remember me that I'll be playing up against you guys He said, how that is so

I said, just face me So I bowled a couple of balls There's Gary Kristen And he said, oh my lord You should have been in the team rather in the nets I said that do you think I have the capacity To be a great fast follower He says, you must be kidding me

So I am going to vouch for you In the Pakistan dressing that you should play you And the Pakistan, what they did is They played me four years later So I lost my peak there. The one thing that nobody will ever be able to take away is that you were the first and thus far only bowler to break the 100 miles per hour barrier.

I know this was a huge deal to you and it was a huge deal for cricket really, breaking that 100 mile per hour barrier. No, really? Honestly, no. It was just a media hype for me to cross the 100 miles. It was just an international cricket gimmick that who is going to cross the 100 miles? It was just a great interest.

I was not getting paid for this. one to bowling 100 miles of breaking my bones so I what I did I just said for heaven's sake let's I need to finish this one so I spoken about this to Berkeley back in 2002 I said why don't you do it you're fitter than me you're better looking than me so why don't you just go up then and do it so he said no I don't think so I used to idealize you Schwib so I think you're the one who's going to do it so I planned it what I did I started training for hundred miles back in 2003. I used to bowl from a 26 yard. I used to run with, I used to run with 170 kilo on my back, take 20 kilo off out of every 100 meter sprint, and then I

started bowling with a thrice as heavier with a cricket ball with a 26 yard. And then I came back to the 22 yards that I was about, oh, six kilometers. Then they recorded me somewhere about 162, 162, 163. Because when I just close the distance, but the power is the same. The power muscle ratio to the same to the ball, but the distance is lesser now this time. So I was crossing and cutting the wind at the speed of somewhere which I'm telling you right now. So by the time I got into South Africa, I lost my knees, my left knee's was gone and my right was totally gone. So what they did is they jabbed me about seven times in my knees, then I just

could not feel the ground at the same time. So what I could not feel the ground, you know, Isha would know that, you know, you don't feel the tingle in your knees, in your toes. When you don't feel the grass, you don't get the grip out of it. So when you don't get the grip out of you, you don't know where you're landing. When you don't know when you're landing, so your arms of your body, your fame is all over the place. So I used to get very frustrated, but I had to play. So then I planned, I said that I did this. I said, I did it twice. And now accept it, please. So I planned this one against Nick Knight and I told him, I said, I'm going to hurt you and make sure you stay out of it. So he says, how are you going to hurt me? I said,

I'm going to a bowl a hundred miles an hour in this or in this particular balls. He said, oh my lord okay why i said i just want to finish this i said but make sure they pitch it up i said i will so this is the story i had girls i watched a clip of virat coli recently talking about you know somebody questioned him about who uh he who he would rather face from the non-strikers end and we're talking about vera coli who's arguably you know the greatest batsman of our generation and he said you know you know i'm pretty comfortable the only bowler that i ever thought i'd be more comfortable on the non-strikers end is shoy abhor what did that mean to you that uh the greatest player of this generation? No, no, no, no, no. He's a very kind. He's a very humble guy. He's a very

genuine cricketer. I appreciate the fact that he said that, you know. I would love to have a go at him. You know, me and Vasim Akram, we talked about this one. We would have enjoyed against Varat Koli, because we are the very verbal kind of people, especially me and Vasim and Vakar and the whole Pakistan team, but back in this era. So, Varad would have, you know, faced a lot difficulties from us but again i can promise you right now his record would have been the same as today even against us so this is a compliment i wanted to give it to him because he is a great kid he's a greatest cricketer and he would have faced a toughest time against us verbally with the bounces with the ball he would have a difficult times i'll be honest with you we would have explored

him with the bounces i would have come around the wicket and no question Question asked, period, there's a borderline bowling from the round of the wicket and I would get in the fights with the umpires too. Because if ICC does not allow you to bowl a borderline bowling, if you want to have a three circle, you want to have a five circle, please do that. If you want people to score about 30,000 runs in the career, please do that. But you'd lose in the charm of the cricket. Sherwin, the one thing I want to ask you, you said you'd be quite aggressive against Veraccoli and you'd be quite verbal against him. But a lot of players are

the world actually they use the tactic of not saying anything to him at all because they think it kind of stokes him up do you think that's what you might do or is there anyone in world cricket that you came together as a group and you said actually let's not say anything to this guy because it actually it makes them better well if she's going to say something to us he's going to get the best out of us if we're going to say something back to him we're going to get the best out of him so it is is a battle of two people that was competing and that's what the media like to see. These two best of the people are fighting with each other. I'm talking about the characters. He's going to have a go at me and I have the luxury of the bowling a six ball. But only if you

allow me to do the borderline bowling. But ICC does not allow me to bowl a borderline ball. Please can you just let me hit the guy and can you allow that guy to hit me back? So this is what you want to see international cricket Asia. You're sick of seeing this lame cricket, this Pim and proper cricket, where the people are just like coming and bowling and there is no corrective. There's no one hurting nobody and no one's taking on nobody. Right? Why people remember that our era, we were aggressive, but were we wicked takings. We could take a fastballers. We were wicked taking fastball in terms of we used to plan it out. And I'll give you one over in Brisbane where our bowling, Ricky Pounding. I bowled a five delivery. He says that's the

fastest spell he's ever faced. Yeah. So what I did, I planned a five out swinger. And the whole team said, do not miss this delivery or make you bring it in with the full capacity and freeze the ball in the stumps, please. Otherwise, this guy's going to kill us. I said, relax. So we see that over. So I bowling out swinger 138 to 145, 148 to 152, then 155, and dumb, bum, as a grading swinger does, off he goes. So you see the acceleration of the pace, the setup, and then the verbal context. So this, what will people like to see on the field where apparently is missing? Sure, have you spoken about Sachin Tendulka being your most prize wicket. Can you just give us, you know, an insight into some of the battles you had?

Such a never had a word with me for 10 years while he's batting. It was boring because he was playing some of the elegant shots against me. It was like dreadful to see that. I was dreading in terms of, you know, that some guy who can just go out there and can use his wristwork against my pace like this, you know, flick me off the leg side. at his will to either to the shorter midwaker or in front of the midwakeet. I said, why are you doing that? And at the same time, he's not saying something to me. How did that affect you? Did it make you even more angry?

There is a crowd that helped me out came to rescue me against Sachin. Because whenever Sachin comes in, the crowd comes behind me, either him. And most of the time, him. So the crowd helped me to get going. So what I did, it charged me in and I just planned. good deliveries against him I played against him 20 times, it went two times

I got him out, I think, 13 times Satchin. So my record against Satchin was very good and Satchel record is against me also very good where he scored Century and he was a fabulous guy he was a fantastic cricketer and a great team at the same time

he's a great friend. I wish I could have known him for in a playing days but you know the media hype and everything that you know just took us pose apart and never let us get close to each other and to get to know each other. It was a bit sad. I'd be honest with you.

I was a bit sad. I should have known him better. Why don't you think anyone else has kind of reached your sort of pace? You have to be a mad to break your bones to bowl like this. You have to be a complete nutter like Brettley. He was breaking his ankle every day,

every ball that he, every delivery that he's bowling, he's breaking his ankle, is losing his cartilage. And to spread the scare within the field and around. We were basically not, the showboarding kind of of people but you know we used to enjoy the

being a center point of the ground and once you run in then make sure the whole thing is on us the game, the crowd, the media and the box office head so that has to be us so I've thoroughly enjoyed that most of the people think that you know

I played for people I never played for people I played for myself but when it comes from the field I enjoyed every bit of it I enjoyed every single delivery that I could hurt the people and at the same time

how do I plan them out to get them So planning them out and getting them out was fun. It was really fun. Trust me, it was really fun. How do you think the world has changed since Philip Hughes? You would very much use that intimidation talk and I'm going to hurt you and I'm going to this is going to be pain for you. But you would never actually want that to happen to any player, obviously. But do you think that that's changed in terms of the way people sledge? I think people are getting more smarter. People are more money-minded. People are wanting. to save their careers and the legs

so they can run for another 10 years and I thought for that series only alone I thought for the day and the laws were relaxed a bit and when they banned us for bowling a more than a two-bounser

I was gutted I said how would you trap the batsman where is the borderline I love borderline bowling and someone there's a hamison and a friend of was bowling a borderline bowling to me in Lahore test man and they bruised me almost about 10 places.

And one of the places I can't show you. So they hurt me really, really bad. And I was loving every bit of it. Isha, laws does not allow you to bowl fast. Two new balls, too much restriction, too much of cricket, too much of 20 leagues, too much of money, too much of everything, too much of TV rights, does not allow you to become the fastest bowler because they don't want to see the characters. If you want to see the characters, relax the laws.

You've got to save the test matches. You've got to say, okay, you cannot cross the limit, but you can have a go at each other. Any white man's game, there's a body contact. Why not in cricket? I'm not asking to hit each other, but let me circle the batsman and say a few words. And let him come back to me, say something to me, and then let the ball and the bag decide after that. Can you just do that for me, please? The other thing is surprised me.

There is no characters left. Where are the characters on the field, apart from Benstock? How's those correctors? In the World Series, I was injured. I told Freddie, I'm not fed. He says, you're a born unfit. I said, absolutely right.

So he said, when you bowl, you look like a taser, but you bowled like a jane. Then he happened to tour to Pakistan. I got the jabs again in my knees. My last spell was the fastest than the first one. I was gradually going up and up and up and up. So these are the people that will get the best out of you.

So Freddie was badly hurt on the bouncers in Faslobub. He had no answers. I got him out in every test match. Again, you know, this is the characters that needs to be re-emerged again. This will only happen if the ICC allows you to do that. Otherwise, I don't see no future of cricket lasting through the edges of time. No. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's the truth.

Shad, you've got these really strong views about the future of the game and things that we should be doing to protect the game. Have you thought about getting involved with administration or like buying a team or what about coaching? Does I, do I look like someone who enjoy the administration? No. The people like me, they don't like to have it in the administration because I'm a bit too blunt about. A motivational speaker, probably. That is the way forward for me.

And I would encourage people. I'd reboot people. I would reboot people in terms of, you know, I'm a huge fan of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, Women empowerment. Do you see a time 10 to 15 really fast bowlers who can bowl upwards of 80 miles an hour in the women's game? There are few women who can actually break the walls and the laws, go through the walls and break the loss. I think there are women. We need to invest in those women.

We've got to invest in those women who actually can go against the nature, boring 90 miles an hour. You're not looking at the right places. There has to be people who can actually run faster. who can bowl fast. I'm not saying no disrespect to people who are playing. They're amazing. But they are setting up the foundation of people who can come in like me. You know, who can bowl 90 miles an hour who can excite the people, bring the excitement with the game. How do you see the future of cricket in Pakistan? Be bearing in mind the squad that we have, the PSL with the return of cricket to Pakistan. If they want to go forward,

they won't be able to go forward until they bring me in. I'm just kidding. All right. I think. Now, The need of our is, I'll be honest. The Pakistan Cricket Board actually is improving. They have decided, I've taken a decision, which is the betterment of cricket. Vasim Khan and the company, the guy who came from England, he's doing a wonderful job. Let me be honest with it. For the first time, there's an educated mind who was there, is there, to want to make a difference in a club cricket, in the regional cricket, and they are taking a rightful decision for the betterment of cricket.

So for the first time, after 20 years, and the general, General Tokisar was there, and he was very good. But the PCD is trying the best to bring cricket back into Pakistan. At the same time, improving the cricket and the cricketers. And I can see their efforts are meaningful. I like to empower the local selectors. Because it is important, the chief selectors should not sit there like a daddy of cricket or Pakistan cricket. It should be the seven other selectors should be sitting in the press conference, answering those questions. Why have you select those guys?

If I had to come in as a chief selector, for example, I would rather build a pot of 45 people, which is a 35 people is going to be a very young, fresh blood of under 16 and under 18 and under 19 and under 21. I would make sure that the mindset that they have it is the equivalent of the test cricket of the international cricket.

The people who are playing with the 100 plus strike rate, they need to follow that. So I would make Pakistan be more aggressive than what it is right now. I could see the bright future of Pakistan cricket. And how about the future of Shobahar? you know, the first to 100 miles per hour, the fastest to 1 million subscribers on YouTube, this iconic figure of Pakistani cricket, what's next for you?

Don't know, don't know. I'm probably getting off the media for one year. Let's put it this way. Because my mother is sick of it now. I said, listen, I'm 74 now. Can you just shut your mouth for a bit so I can relax? So I said, mom, yeah, sure, I can do that. So I'm probably shutting myself off from the media for a bit.

This is too much of honesty. It does not suit the many people, I'll be honest with you. But, you know, whatever comes out of my mouth, it comes from my heart. Wow, that was something. It was. It really was something. You mentioned the word candid. I don't think I've ever met anyone as candid as that. He's either crazy or he's a complete genius.

But there's definitely nothing about it. And I think he actually liked that. I think he's the kind of guy who really liked that comparison of being, I'm either completely crazy or I know exactly what I'm talking about. But there is no in between. There's no lack of conviction. So much conviction and everything he said. What I do love about him is the passion that really comes through

and everything that he talks about. I mean the first time I actually met him I got to see this really light side of him obviously having grown up watching him bowl at the speed of light and be this kind of crazy guy on the field but yeah he is you know he's super genuine and exactly what he says everything does come from the heart and he may not necessarily think through it sometimes

and he admits that himself just wonderful to hear from him and the respect that he has for so many cricketers around the world as well the love for cricket really does come through and having spent some time with him like I can attest to the fact that he's super generous and he always likes to look after people around him and make sure they're comfortable. But he can be a bit over the top in his aggression

and his affection as he talked about in his interview, he talked about just lightly patting people on the back and causing them injuries. He does do that from time to time. But the love of the game is there. The love to kind of secure the future of the game is there. And he's got his very strong opinions of retaining the aggression of cricket

and allowing those bounces and giving the bowlers back a little bit more leeway. And I think there's certainly something to be said for that. And I'm glad he's out there waving the flag. I'm glad there's other voices too, but I'm glad he's out there waving the flag for fast bowling.