Test Match Special - TMS Top 10: Ashes Characters

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

From Stuart Broad to Ben Stokes, Shane Warne to Steve Waugh, Freddie Flintoff to Ian Botham. Who is the ultimate Ashes character? Whose personalities have shone on the pitch in the most high pressure games? Isa Guha, Sir Alastair Cook, and Jonathan Agnew debate their top 10 Ashes characters from players across England and Australia.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. Hello and welcome to the very first episode of Ashes Top 10 on the TMS podcast where we'll be ranking the greatest male characters to have ever graced the Ashes here or in Australia. I'm Isha Gura and I'm joined by two people that know a thing or two about cricket and have been involved with or seen their fair share of Ashes' drama.

So Alistair Cook and Jonathan Agnew, hello to you both. Very nice to be here. Risha, we've got some fun with this. We certainly are, and you're both looking very dapper, I have to say, in your suits. Yeah, I've tried very hard. They're dressed for radio anymore, Eisha. Okay. Well, it's a great start to the very first episode of Ash's Top Ten with you two,

and what a category we have to start as well. The greatest Ashes characters, whose personalities have shone on the pitch in the most high-pressure games. And I feel you two have just about enough experience of watching and playing in the Ashes, So this should be fun, Alistair. It should be. I'm now looking at the lists. I'm actually really disappointed at you guys.

I'm just rearing to go at you both. I just need to put in a caveat here because you might look at these names and go, well, hang on a second. There's loads of big characters that are missing. Yeah, where's WG Grace? Is he not there? So from a generation point of view,

we're pulling from 1990 onwards. No, WG Grace, no Donald Bradman. No. There's a lot of characters that aren't. on this list. So without further ado, Shane warned. Off only two or three paces, he bowled, and Gatting is taken on the pennies, bowls!

Out comes Bethlehem now, he bows to Alderman? I've also have him and England have won. It's a hit, it has hit. It has hit from midon. Now, it's pointing out. England's think they've got him. Redley, it is in now to Flintoff. Flint off, heaves at that, it's gone over the pavilion. It's an enormous six. My goodness me, you won't see a bigger six for a hundred years.

There we go. Dawson comes up and bowls to war, who drives and drives through the offside for his hundred. And in comes Pat Cummins from the far end. He bowls to Stokes who hammers it for four. Warner 97 waits for Swan. Cuts and he's going to get four I think here. It's going to be his hundred. Yes, the ball's gone behind square on the off side. Here's broad coming in and bowling to Voj's. Oh, he's brilliant. Brilliantly caught. Shoulders hunch forward. He bowls to Mike Gatting on the legs up. He's bowled in middle stump. Hughes is mobbed by his osse. Australian teammates and he gets to 200. That is a wonderful milestone for Kevin Peterson and he is full of joy. Shane Warren, Ian Botham, Ricky Ponting, Freddie Flintoff, Steve War, Ben Stokes,

David Warner, Stuart Broad, Merv Hughes, Kevin Peterson. Now when we talk about character, I guess we're thinking about things like personality, obviously how they performed on the field. They're a grit, their resilience, but also box office moments, players that could create magical moments. Yeah, I think someone that you just would rush out of the bar from to go and watch, wouldn't you, whether he's batting or bowling. That's kind of a character for me. I've judged mine on a bit of both, but also I had to judge it on my experience of it as well. So some of my, you'll see on my list, the guys, it's like lower down the list I had less to do with. You're making excuses already?

No, not at all. I think my list is right. Okay. Should we start with you all this? We're very competitive, but I can see it now. It's coming out already. I'm going to start with you, Alistair. You're 10 to 6. 10 to 6.

I've gone Murph Hughes to the bottom. I just, it was slightly before my time. I mean, I do remember him bowling, whether that's just due with highlights, the big tash, the chain bang, and just basically swearing at the English batsman, in particular Graham Hick. That's all I really remember.

So the eight wickets at Lords don't really count very much. Well, I don't remember it. No. So that's why, you've asked me for my list, so that's why I'm going for him there. Sorry, Merv. Obviously, I've met him a few times. I've a really nice guy, but you're number 10.

I've gone Warner, number nine. Is that because you don't want to say that you just didn't like playing? No, not at all. I love battling against him, because we could not be more opposite, like, players, but I'm just talking about the character of him, I'll always remember will be Stuart Ball's Bunny. If you're asking you, like, of the, of, on this list.

You ask me for one little bit of it. So I don't think, he doesn't quite have the same stories as the other guys. Everyone else on here, you go, there's lots of more stories about him. So that's why he's number nine. Steve Waugh, again, you know, he was what, I suppose, the true Australian gritty character looks like with his baggy green oil ripped and, you know, the 100 with one calf and all that kind of stuff. But again, I've had less to do with him.

So I can't, that is the reason he's number eight. I've then gone Ricky Ponting. He edges Steve Waugh because I played against him. I've had more experiences on the pitch, you know, with a few occasions we've played against each other. Unbelievable player. I remember him playing that. 190-odd he got at Brisbane in 2006.

First time I ever watched him bat against Harmeson. I know Harmeson, you know, bowled the first one to second slip, but he still bowled quickly. He still bowled unbelievably quickly. Freddie was firing in the first day of the Brisbane test, first day of the ashes, just made batting look incredibly easy. I mean, I've been facing these guys in the net, barely get on the front. It was a revenge innings, isn't it?

He really set his stall out after what happened in 2005. And, you know, he was right forward playing crunching cover drives, and then if it was slightly short of pulling through midwicket, and I'd obviously been facing these guys in the nets and just couldn't hit him. I was like, Jesus, how good this guy is. So he goes there, and obviously a great, actually a really nice guy, a real, I would say a legend, well, obviously legend, that's my seven,

and I've gone, KP. Number six, just, you know, he's played some of the innings where I don't think anyone will ever forget 2005. So that he has to be marked up there for the character, the haircut,

the first probably English, you know, batsman to take it to Australia. Like, properly take it to him from what I can remember, like in a successful thing as a batsman, not an all-rounder, so He goes, that's my number six. Agnes, have you got anything different from there?

Well, they're different, yes. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? Because in my case, there's a bit of who you know and have come across and liked as individuals as well. You can't help be influenced slightly by that. And that's absolutely no reflection on Stuart Broad, whose second bottom, because I actually like Stuart very much. But we're talking characters here. What about number 10? Well, I've got David Warner there because I didn't know him at all.

I'd never interviewed David Warner. I asked to interview him at the end of the last ashes at the Oval. We're live on the radio and he said a couple of words to me. So I did have to give it, David Warner there as he left. And that's the only time that I've ever actually spoken to David Warner. So that's why it's bottom. Stuart comes in at number nine. You can't base it on whether they give you an interview or not Aggers.

He was very rude. And so David Warner there. That was it. So he's bottom. Stuart Broad, they kind of linked together, aren't they? Was Stewart a character? That's the thing. I mean, there were lots of...

What I liked about Stuart, when his knees were up, he was running in bowling hard, you could see, you know, what is a character? You know, Merv Hughes for me, I've got him at number 10, 9, 8, 7, you see, because Merv was a character. Big moustache and big stomach and stuff. And he was very cunning with his sledging. He used to slip it through his moustache. So you couldn't really see what's going on.

You couldn't really hear it very clearly unless you were usually Graham Hick who was getting it in the ear. And you see, Ricky Ponting, who I don't really know very well, and I'm slightly influenced only because he was always, I've interviewed Ricky at some horrible times in his life. When he's lost the ashes most of the time against us,

you know, so I don't think he likes me very much. Again, you're basing it on interviews again, aren't he? I just don't think Ricky likes me because I've always been that person there with the microphone to saying, oh, bad luck, Ricky, you know, Gary Pratt, you know. So Ricky and I, we're getting better. But again, character, character.

Ricky, for me, was a brilliant player. Wonderful batsman. Character. I put Murph Hughes above him. K.P., yeah, I mean, 2005. He was a real character, wasn't he? And he was kind of a favourable character. He, through his career, became really quite Marmite.

People either really like Kevin Peterson or really felt very strongly about him. I see you and Pierce made up by the way That's nice cookie All of that You know that really did divide opinion didn't it So Yeah but I've definitely on my list

I put cricket as well Yeah well Cricket has to go into it You don't like them very much Or the fact they don't get very good into it On that basis For interview etiquette Where would Sir Alister Cook go on this list

Well Actually he was always quite I know he's all right with me Cookie won't you Yeah we're fine Actually I'll tell you what I'll tell you what I just I'll tell you one

I went to an interview because I always had to interview the captain saw every toast match and in Dunedin I scuttled around the far as oh god I got to interview I had to cook again around I went with the machine

interviewed him but all the way back to the box hadn't worked which is every every interviewer's nightmare isn't it so I thought okay I went all the back again

and he did it a second so that's a gent so actually he'd been the top three there was there any comment around having to do it again well he obviously took them took the Mickey I just sat out professional

how hard could be to press one button One job. You've got to ask three questions and I'll press one button. I can't wait until we do that. You're warmed up. Next summer. Wow. Just out of interest.

Does that change at all based on character of performance? No. Okay. Fine. No. I've linked, I have to link mine with cricket. I just couldn't see any other way because like Brody.

You're right. Merv Hughes is a bigger character. Yeah. I've got the big cricketing characters to come with him. but I'm going Yeah but I just think that I've gone as broady as he's in my top five

just because the character he put over the game in certain times I'll 8 for 15 that was like I'll never forget that I'll never forget that ever and that's not character

and totally obviously dominating Australia Jimmy and Jude here to stand up with you know so I that's how I've linked like a bit of character as well like my you're perfectly entitled to

Cook So like Merv is obviously is a bigger characters and stuff because I don't know as much about his cricket that's why he has to leave well I'm going to agree with you there

sir Alster because I have got Murv at bottom I have I'm going to tell him I'm sorry I know Murf I've had the pleasure of working with my views and he is the sweetest man you could possibly come across

on the field he's completely the opposite he's not going to be happy the big moustache the character Bay 13 MCG with all the spectators following him and with his warm-up and his side-stretching.

It should be number one then on your... In terms of characters that make you watch the game and think that it's entertainment and fun, Merv Hughes is up there, but I've incorporated all of it in there. So, as I said at the start, I want people who were charismatic, box office,

but could also create magical moments, had that grit and resilience, and perform in Ashes matches. So that's why he's at night. number 10. Poor Merv. Now... I believe they.

You've both got in bottom. Sorry, man. With that in mind, I've gone with Steve War at number nine. Good grief. Now, obviously... It's high on your list, isn't it? Well, yes. We'll come to that.

We'll come to that. Obviously, grit determination embodied the whole Australian ethos of coming at you and being strong-minded and determined and... He did squeeze... He squeezed every ounce of ability out of his ability. In terms of box office, would I want to watch him back? Apart from that match at the SCG where I was glued to the screen. 100 at Sydney, when he got 100 off the last ball?

Yeah, I did. Yeah, that was an incredible moment. That was a moment in time, though, I guess. I wouldn't say that every time he went out to play, I was glued to the screen. I think you dropped the World Cup. I mean, you know, that's a characterful thing to say, wasn't it? It wasn't in the ashes, so, was it? Well, no, but it was still character.

Well, I don't know about this. He had plenty of characters, really. It's going to be embarrassing in Australia. I mean, honestly, you're going to need some sort of bodyguard. Steve Warren. Sorry, Steve. Sorry, Steve. What about this one, though?

At number eight, I've got David Warner. I have to work with him in Australia, so sorry, David. Yes, lots of character, intimidating for our bowlers, apart from Stuart Broad. always made something happen always got stuck in and he definitely elevated the entertainment

when he was out there on the pitch but yes he's at eight so I've got three Aussies at the bottom there yeah like it are you going to need to I've got Stuart Broad at number seven I just think he always had a good

moment in Ash's cricket didn't he think about that 815 the Oval you think about the last Test match there. Only he could have finished in that way. Turn the bail around. Turn the bail around, get a wicket, finish on a high six with his last ball in test cricket.

He made things happen and that's why he is at number seven. And he wasn't afraid to stand up to the Aussies when you think about him putting the newspaper under the arm. The press conference, that's why he's a bit further up. Kevin Peterson at six as well. We've all got them in the same place. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? I always remember him walking out to bat at Lords and hitting a 50.

And the thing that I remember the most was Glenn McGraw. And every time Glenn McGraw got hit for runs, he would shake his head. You would remember this, Agers, because you would have commentated on him quite a lot. Hands on hips, and he'd be shaking his head constantly. Kevin Peterson made him do that quite a lot, that series. Because he did. Well, that test match, sorry. Yeah, and the Oval that, he thinks that the Oval was.

Outstanding. That was extraordinary, wasn't it? So, yeah, well, it's interesting how we've We talked about as batting, but then, you know, in terms of characters, we will put him in number six. That's because of who's to come in the top five. Indeed. So do you want to go, I guess? Right, so picking up then the top five, and it is, this is hard.

I mean, the character's involved here, and for different reasons, I could have put him higher, but I've got Ben Stokes at five. again it's just a toss-up between him and Flintov that's a really close battle for me inspirational

again they are the people who pull people out the bar to go and watch they're just a different level and the clarity of both of them and actually particularly Stokes the clarity of which he played the game and the way that he

counter-attacks which again Flintoff did very well in 2005 again amazing series. Yeah, they're kind of equal for me really, but I've got Stokes at five and Flintoff at four. It could have been the other way around. Now, see, I've bucked the trend here because at number three, I've got Steve Waugh.

Character, DeSteely. Again, I mean, I said earlier, but he did redefine Australian cricket, really. They've been through a pretty ordinary trot in the 80s. And Alan Border started that change in 1989 when he came here and was Captain Grumpy and so on. Actually, Steve Ward really, really moved Australian cricket on. Okay, he had Shane Warren and Glenn McGrath, which helped him in the side, of course. But I've got massive respect for Steve. And again, I go back to that point about the contact that you have with, particularly the captains.

I followed him because ABC never sent anyone to interview the Australian captain before every test match. It was a bit strange. So in 2002-3, I interviewed Steve War before every game. and he was coming under incredible pressure I mean massive pressure he was going to lose his place he was going to lose the captain's scene it built up and built up and built up

and he scored that incredible hundred at Sydney which was not just important but it was a brilliant innings and there's that whole question of the last ball or the last over how many needed but he needed one off the last ball and it was all engineered by Adam Gilchrist at the other end and away Steve Orr had to go for it

but there'd been a lot of bats who had just blocked it out and come back tomorrow but not Steve bang four through the covers It was one of the great moments. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. My name's Steve Bradnell, a sister manager of Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online with Vinyl. Vinyl sensation.

And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world banter eyes. This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's the podcast? Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans.

I'll use my charm. Gift at Gab. Games gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. Cookie, who have you gone for five to three? I've gone Freddy at five, Stuart Broad at four and Shane Warren at three.

I just, I've kind of done this. they're all massive characters on and off the film so you can't split them really in their own unique ways and so I've also linked into my personal experience like Freddie 2005 revolutionising cricket in England on Channel 4 millions of people watching it I was a 21 year old playing professional cricket and what that did for kind of my career

in terms of interest there you know, you can't ever forget that what 2005 did for the game in this country and obviously with Freddie's character there It's like both of an 81 wasn't it really Yeah, but similar Yeah, I mean that's where I go And then I've gone broad it for

Yes, he's not the big character In terms of, you know, the off-field stuff But when I took this character stuff In my career, every big moment in ashes Stewart was delivered He was a nemesis for them, wasn't he? Yeah, 2009 The Oval, 2013 Durham 2015

Trembridge and then obviously 13 as well with the non-walking things every part of my Ash's experience Brody's played such a big part

I always said to him it must be nice for now you've retired knowing that every time the game was up for grabs in the biggest series

you always delivered how nice the feeling of that be like I barely did so I just thought that that is for me the character and so

like entwined in my career while he is so high up and I had to explain that reason and then spent a lot of time we brought it off the field in those moments as well so that's what he's your friend isn't he yeah so that's why he's I pushed him up there for other stuff just out of interest how much you factoring in how um easy or hard it was to captain any of these

players well I think I'm trying to think I'm probably captain beating at six yeah no Kevin Pete at six but I think broadly had more impact in Ashes than than KP did so then I've gone for the character character thing on more there's Ashes series for me um so that's why he's up there and then I've gone Shane Worn for three. You can't talk about a bigger character, can you? Let's be honest. Like, he should be number one. However, when you look at the other,

with Beefy and Stokes in there, I'm also relating to either English. So they're going to be at top of my list anyway. So, and you can't split them. You split them with other things. That's what I was going to moan about both your lists that you've chosen a non-Englishman to be at the top of it when you, yeah,

like, what can you not say about Shane Warren? What can you say about something which hasn't been said already? privileged to have played against him I was there on the 700 wicket at the MCG which that moment was incredible and then actually during that series

I didn't score many runs against him when I did score runs against him he was very complimentary and then just talking to him kind of at that time was unbelievable obviously had a bit of moments when I was captain and he was Michael Clark's like cheerleader

and stuff like that but after that you know it would have loved to have got to know him more in the commentary sphere and just talking cricket with him because that's what you know I did a bit after that on the phone he was always there to chat to me if he after that gave a number chatted away but never really sat there had beers not that everything has to be related about beers but sat in a bar talking to him about cricket which is which I I feel amiss so a great character obviously everyone missed in the game but he has to go three on the pure example he's an Australian and I had to have two Englishmen in the top two

so there you go so patriotic incredible brain Shane more but we'll get to that in a minute me and Agers I think we're probably revealing who's in our top two but five for me Freddie I think for me 2005 you know we were playing our ashes at the same time

and we would finish our days play and then we'd flick on the telly and watch the boys and so inspired by all of them actually just the way they were going about their business the way they were taking it to Australia and we obviously went on to win our crashes as well. And it was, it felt like an incredible summer of cricket just because

Australia dominated for such a long time. And you always want the big game players to stand up in the big moments. And he absolutely did that, Freddie. The heart and soul of England's fight, I always remember that over, he bowled to Ricky Ponting. The partnerships he had with Garaint Jones, when him and Kevin Peterson were out in the middle together. But it wasn't just that series, five for 78 at Lords in 2009. I remember him getting down on one. knee and just arms outstretched she was struggling a bit more with injury then he always made things happen the run out at the oval um just i always kind of as a fan of cricket was really attracted to watching players that could just make things happen um Darren goff was one of those for me

growing up and and freddie very much that player for me um as an all-rounder so him at five then i've got beefy um obviously heard a lot of stories of beefy growing up um would have been reminded of what happened in 81 and just him as a general character and that's the same for Freddie as well I mean they were both larger than life characters they would bring everyone with them they're there there sorts of players that

you know you feel 10 feet taller when you're in the dressing room and you've got that character These all rounders have presents Yeah they do they have presents Stokes flint off both them Do you think that's just a character trait of all rounders I think probably is Because they almost think like well I've got to be good at everything

And to be good at that, you then have you're kind of a wide, slightly differently. Yeah. I mean, I think all the top all rounders have been big characters in that way, isn't it? I've gone beefy at four, had the pleasure of working with them in the commentary box. That was a lot of fun.

And just someone who, I guess the game did come quite naturally to him. You won't be pleased. Fourth. Ian does not like coming fourth. Ian does not like coming second. Well, I've got a pretty good top three. Here we are arguing with you.

And in at number three, got Ricky Ponting. So you talk about characters in the game. For me, he just embodied, again, that kind of fiery, gritty Australians. You know him well too, don't you? You work, you. I do, yeah, I do know Ricky. And actually, working with him, you get to know him in a completely, it was the same with all the Australians, to be honest. When I first met Warnie, it was very intimidating. But then, you know, we became good friends. So with Ricky, I just, I just, I just, I, I kind of go back to 2005 and what he represented then

and just how every time he walked onto the field, any time he spoke in public, it just felt like his chest was puffed out. I mean, he's not that much taller than me. He won't mind me saying that. But he had so much aura and presence and as a captain

one of the best captains 19 matches in Ashes cricket that he won as captain. He had a great team with him as well but he was able to lead them pretty well. He was able to dominate Azabata for so many years Over 13,000

Test runs I'm sure no one reminds him Ever during Ashes cricket But the century at Old Trafford Brit Determination Was part of some pretty big moments in Ashes Cricket So top two Who wants to go first?

I'll go, the youngest here Are you? I don't know, am I? I've got for Lord Botham at number one I just You know He saved his best cricket for Australia

No one will ever forget 81 I wasn't even born 81 yet I know I'm now saying well I'd never played with him And stuff but the other Some of the other guys didn't have much to do with their careers So they're down the list But I do think that 81 It's almost the greatest moment ever in English cricket

That's the most talked about moment in a test match I reckon So that's why I've gone there and he saved his best to Australia. He had this way about him and just taken Australia on at all, at everything, wasn't it? He would not lose to Australia in anything he did, whether it was cricket, tidily winks, fishing,

and that kind of character. And then you hear some of the stories, were all the stories, and I've probably heard about a million of them, and there's probably another five million to go. So I'm combining a guy whose best cricket was against Australia with the 81, one of the greatest ever test matches, and he played the biggest part in it and then saved all his cricket so he's number one

and I've gone Stokesy because and number two because again that headingly bit there to witness headingly I just I still can't believe that innings I still can't believe that innings and what he's done did that innings and what he did in that series

and kind of then I linked in to standing up to Australia and I've got this thing about players standing up and delivering matters but that Perth 113 his first one with a crack was the sizes table and just quite a hundred and I think the fact that all we never took a backward step against them so I've gone for stokesy and you know if the next however long and you know if we sit here and he he does win in Australia as a captain what an amazing do I mean

that will definitely go up there so I've gone for a character those two beefy number one stokes number two all rounders I don't think there'd be many people disagreeing with you there to be fair but both me and aggers have gone A couple of different plays. Well, it's interesting because I could easily put Ian number one too. I mean, I did play with Ian, shared dressing rooms with Ian, and he just dominated everything. You know, he would just, you know, what dressing rooms was like

when he got your little benches or whatever, maybe, in your locker. Well, his kit was just in the middle of the dressing room. And he just lived in the middle of the dressing room, which is like what he was. He was like the heartbeat of the place. And he just got changed and everything. He was just in the middle of the dressing room. It was extraordinary kit all over the place.

Yeah, a brilliant Cricket. The thing like Ian is he lived his life very much under tabloid spotlight. It was very hard for him. He really couldn't do anything. He's a proper superstar. Yes, he was.

Yeah, he was proper superstar. He was pursued relentlessly by the tabloids. There's a bit of a tabloid war going on at the time. And Ian worked for, I think he might have worked for both the sun and the mirror it at various times. But there was always this incredible competition. to get stories about you both of them and so he had to live under that as well he kind of reveled in it as well

because he was this really talked about the characters but I just could not go for Shane Warren that was the thing I just I mean he has excelled at the hardest easily the most difficult discipline in cricket and he's made wrist spin bowling not only look easy

but be so influential in the games that he played in accuracy, the accuracy of a wrist spinner to bowl as he did, ball after ball off the ball off the ball and to spin the ball so much and when it was at his best when he had that flipper as well

he was a bowling genius so, okay that's one thing but in terms of the character I always used to describe as a pantomime dame because he's rather like that on the field, isn't he always ridiculous of theatrical appeals

and all that he was getting into the batsman's head without slagging them off without being abusive but it was just this massive figure even when the pitch was doing nothing I mean he blagged that win in Adelaide when

when we played I mean he blagged he wasn't doing anything but he blagged it you know it's just great poker player wasn't he and that you know

that was kind of how he played his cricket as well so he's my number one well I've gone with the same number one actually yeah but I'll start with two

and Ben Stokes who again similar sort of of character to Beefy and Freddie in the sense that would always make things happen. And Headingley was, we were all there back at the time when, I guess, no one walking to the ground that day on that final day, expected England to get over the line. But then when they were nine down, they still needed 70 odd. I mean, and just ridiculous that, but the World Cup, not long before. he is someone who can produce miracles

and he's done it time and again and you say the same about Shane Warren but Ben has that ability himself to players that didn't really shy away from the tabloids either very much culturally significant when it comes to being able to dominate especially in Ash's cricket a modern day Ash's warrior Ben Stokes

and as a captain as well I mean, the inspiration that he's created for this team and this new era of... I'd love to have played under Ben Stokes, wouldn't you? Yeah. I'd love to have... And actually, there's probably quite a few similarities in the way he captains and the way Shane would have captained

in terms of the instinct. And sometimes it feels like a bit of a gamble, but it's an instinctive gamble to just really back his players. And I imagine that's what Shane would have done as well. And Shane's at number one, just purely because of... the genius, but also the fact that he could transcend the sport and bring other people to the game through his magic.

I mean, he was someone who everyone feared when they were facing him, but also just the greatest showman, especially at the MCG, his backyard, his playground, everyone just wanted to watch every single ball he bowled. And you talk about the aura that he possessed and sometimes it was something out of nothing. I mean, he would literally just go and talk to extra cover for no particular reason at all. and I would get into the passers mind. And the ball of the century, you know, the hat trick, the 700th wicket. Even that 2005 Ashes series, you know, he came into that series not being in particularly good form. I think he spent a lot of time with Terry Jenner just ahead of the series and ended up picking up.

Thought a little wicket. Yeah, quite a lot. It's a lot on it. Even at, you know, Trent Bridge at the Oval, you still felt with worn in the team, England were never safe. So just purely for that reason of just that unbelievable ability And there will never be another Shane Warren About Shane as well, just to throw this in When it went after the ball of the century

I remember saying wow this is going to inspire A whole new generation of wristbin bowlers They're going to see this You know this incredible character What it can do Well where are they? There aren't any because they can't do it He was so good

And no one can come up and match what he did You know he made that art look so easy It's a good point actually I never thought about that. Thank you, Alistair. There's been quite a lot in leg that, like, in one day cricket, done really well, haven't they?

Yeah, but nothing like. Nothing in test cricket. Nothing quite like. I was for, you know, he got Cumblay, but they're different, he's a different bowl, wasn't he? Yeah. To Shane Warren and kind of, but you're right, why? I thought everyone, all every kid would want to do it.

I think, yeah, I suppose they did want to do it. Yeah, that's a really good point. I had to nick that one, so much. And actually, just to add to that, no one really talks about his broadcasting, and I was so very fortunate to work with him and sit alongside him, And I still remember, I mean, me and Gilly talk about it all the time.

There were a couple of moments in the commentary box where we would just sit there and just look at each other and go, this is ridiculous. Because he would be describing a passage of play. And to a normal person, you'd be looking at a passage of play going, I have no idea what's happening here. Or this is really slow. And he would make something from it and describe exactly what the bowler was thinking, exactly what the batter was thinking. And describe it in such a way. that would make it really inviting to the viewer. But he also had this unbelievable ability to talk about his craft

that everyone could follow. You know, if you hadn't watched cricket before, he had this incredible way of being able to describe cricket to a layman. And I think that was one of his strengths as well. Great with the kids too, isn't he? Exactly. They start a play down the ground with kids bowling. And so that's why I miss listening to him actually,

because you will never get that brain again. You had all this experience of years and years and years of cricket and all these different match situations and him watching it. He was an absolute badger, cricket badger. He would watch cricket 24-7 and always have something to say about it. It's been quite a long shout about Shane Warren, but there's a reason for that, and that's why he is number one. Very special.

Very special player. Would you change your mind? I've got an argument for at least, you know, between both in Stokes and Warn, you could put almost any of those in terms of the top three in any order I'm quite happy to have Shane Warren at number one absolutely but I think you could argue

for both at number one as well in the same in the same way I think those two I just put Warnett three because he's Australian that's the only other reason for it the only reason but those top three in terms of what they've those three have done for the sport

in different ways in different ways but what they've done for the sport and what they did in Ash's cricket is unrivaled and certainly we're picking for the last 20 or years I think it's you know it's quite a clear top three in my opinion

sorry I guess your Steve War has to be anged out a little bit but you know you can argue and it's a really interesting thing because what is character what is performance how is it linked and it's been quite

I think you've both talked about Stuart Broad really well and I feel a bit of guilty that he's number nine on my list. He's not going to be happy with you. I'm going to put him up a couple of places. But then he could look at there and you think

well Freddy should be up a bit higher. But then we are talking with splitting heads between some cricketers who have, I think looking back now after discussing and doing the list would be all the cricketers who have defined areas of defined games or defined series in a different way in terms of and have that off-field thing are the top thing.

So you could pick quite a few of them. any players that you would have had in that top 10 that aren't in there Phil Toffnell Oh tough as How was tough as last tour? No, 90 I don't like his last test match, 97 wasn't it? Yeah, perhaps tougher should be in there

Because Beefy finished in 92 That's right, of course it did And if that's the case then Alan Border probably needs to be in there We could have gone forever Yeah I've just opened a can of worms at the end of the podcast Well there we have it Some of the greatest characters in the game

My thanks to Sir Alistair Cook and Jonathan Agnew, but did we get it right? You can join the conversation. Email us at TMS at BBC.co.uk. Text 81111-start your message with TMS, all one word, all capitals. And you can WhatsApp us on 033-1826. Again, start your message with TMS, all one word, all capitals. That's it for now. We'll speak to you next time.

Welcome to Terlenders! I'm Greg James, he's Felix White. Hello! And that is England's greatest ever bowler, Jimmy Anderson. Hello! We've finally got our break on BBC High Play. It's lovely to be here. England haven't won a test match in Australia since the 2010-2011 series,

which is a long time ago. Give us a few reasons to why it's so difficult. The wickets are different, the ball's different, and the heat as well. The media coverage over there is so much bigger than a test series in England, for example. and cricket over there is huge. Plus Australia are amazing in their own country. Tail Enders.

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