Test Match Special - Tuffers and Vaughan: “Fielding cost England against Pakistan”

Episode Date: June 3, 2019

Injured England batsman Sam Billings sits in for Phil Tufnell as Pakistan shock the hosts to win by 14 runs at Trent Bridge. We discuss where England went wrong, how Wahab Riaz proved his own coach wrong, and why this has been a bowler's World Cup so far. Plus there’s an appearance from a hovercover. Or is it Michael’s hairdryer?

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Suffers and Vaughn's Cricket Show. So what a day at the World Cup. England have been beaten by a resurgent Pakistan. 14 runs, the difference. Michael Vaughn's still at Trembridge. What happened? Fielding, probably the first time since the last World Cup, this England side just produced one of those days

that just nothing went right. They were just off sorts out in the field. Drop catches, fumbled, probably cost them 30 or 40 runs. That was a difference. No toughers tonight. Six days into the World Cup. but it's all got a bit too much for him. Sam Billings will be relieved to know

we don't replace like with like. He is with us this evening. I know you were nodding then, as Michael said, Field in the difference, Sam. Yeah, it was, unfortunately. And as he said, it was just one of those days, a day to forget, really? As well as talking about England and Pakistan,

we'll talk about the tournament in general. Is it, against all expectations, going to be a bowler's tournament? Is it going to conform to everyone's Periotypes, Pakistan being mercurial, South Africa choking already. New Zealand proving that they're a good outside bet. We obviously want to hear from you as well. At 5 Live Sport if you want to tweet us or the email,

Tuffers & Vaughan at BBC.co.uk. Toughers and Vaughn's Cricket Show on 5 Live. Thank you very much for joining us then. Sam, are you a good watcher? Absolutely not, especially at the ground, awful watcher. So it's a little bit better when I'm sat on the sofa at home. But, yeah, I feel for the lads today, big time. And I know you feel for them.

But there's also a point, Michael, because I know you tweeted this when Pakistan were being skittled against the West Indies, that they'll probably go on and win the World Cup. Yeah. But there was just that feeling going into today. There could be a shock, and there has been. Yeah, I mean, it's Pakistan cricket for you.

You felt that the opening partnership was always going to be a, Keat this morning and Faka's a man and Imal Haq came out and he had a bit of fortune but straight away they got on the front foot and played some nice strokes it didn't have the pace that we saw here against the West Indies so the bounces weren't flying through just quite as quickly and they play some good shots they almost came out with right we've just got to attack try and put England on the back foot they did that a real good tactic that they used in the middle particularly Mohammed Afiz when he came out was to to really target Adal Rashid and

that that kind of upset the apple cart for England in the because they're so used to Adel Rashid just bowling his 10 overs. Well, they hit him for 45 in five overs. There was a costly drop. Jason Ruh. You never see Jason drop catch, particularly the one that we saw him drop of Mohammed Afiz when he was on 14. He went on to get an 8 yard.

Baburazam played the solid role. And you just know with Pakistan that they've got the talent, they've got the ability, and when they arrive and play like they did today, in front of thousands of Pakistan support, the atmosphere chappers. I really, it came through. It came through on radio and telly,

did the atmosphere. It's been electric and there's lots of Pakistan support is still in the ground. You know, the World Cups need the flamboyance here. I'm actually, if they're going to lose to a team, you don't mind losing to a Pakistan team because you want them in the World Cups. You want them kind of pushing all the way because they just bring so much flamboyance. England, they'll be in that dress room. They'll be honest. With the bat in hand, I thought they were very, very good. With the ball, not quite as good as we saw again, South Africa, but it was a field. I've not seen England field. And there was just little things, Sam. I'm like, you know, there was runout chances.

The ball was going to Wide Long on. The ball was coming in from Wide Long on to the non-strikers then. And the bowler wasn't getting back to the stunts. It was taking extra cover, like Owen Morgan, to run to the stumps, and then they were missing the chances. Just little things that I noticed today that weren't there against South Africa in the opening games. Just a little bit of a wake-up call. No panic stations for England at all.

But full credit to Pakistan, they produced a wonderful display of cricket. Yeah, it was just uncharacteristic, really. It was more of a surprise. You're not used to seeing an English. inside like that. Like you said field and put a performance in like that and that's probably the most surprising thing but disappointing thing

is we pride ourselves on our fielding certainly in the last four years and just uncharacterous day to forget, draw a line under it, on we go hopefully. We'll bring you reaction from Trent Bridge the TMS Twitter accounts just tweet out Mohammed Afiz and his

interview saying everyone was believing we could do this. We were playing good cricket but not winning crucial stages of the game Everyone chipped in today and gave everything which was required to win the game. We might hear from Hafiz a little bit later on on Tuffers and Vaughn. But let's hear from the England captain. Owen Morgan's been talking to Michael Atherton. Thanks for your time, Owen.

A terrific game, but that's a little consolation, I suspect. No, not at all. A very good game of cricket. Great advertisement for the tournament. But extremely disappointing that we're on the losing, and particularly when it's so tight. You wanted a chase. You got a serious chase.

At the halfway mark, were you concerned that it was too, stiffer task? No. Trembridge is a very high scoring ground. The wicket we felt was very good. The outfield is absolutely rapid and we felt if we got partnerships going that 350 was certainly within a grasp. Losing early wickets is not ideal but certainly Joe and Joss kept us in the game right until the mid early 40th over which is great. We get a considerable partnership going a little bit earlier on in the innings. Potentially we could have got over the line. At the Oval, it was one of England's best ever fielding performances, at least on the book, on the statistics.

Was it less so here? Massively. I thought we were outfielded today, and it's probably the difference between the sides. I don't think our performance is going to go up and down throughout the tournament with the bat and with the ball, but our fielding has to remain quite constant throughout the side, and I thought it was way below power today and probably cost us 15 or 20 runs. And did you feel it's a very different-looking Pakistan attack from the side? the one that you played in in the four-match series. Did they carry more threat today?

Well, probably, evidently, yes, because they beat us. But they bowed well. We got to consider all partnership and stayed in the game. They've obviously played well, deserved to win. The difference is probably the feeling, like I said. A blip then, or more than that, as you reflect on a first defeat for a long time chasing at home in one day international cricket?

No, I don't think a blip. I thought all around today we weren't actually that bad. Pakistan played well. I think throughout the tournament sides, a lot of sides will beat each other. I don't think many sides will go unbeaten. So it's going to be an extremely competitive tournament. Some positives to take from today on to Cardiff against Bangladesh. So looking forward to that. We will see you there. Thanks for your time. Owen Morgan in the presentation with Michael Atherton. We'll hear from Joe Root as well and Wahab Reyes during Tuffers and Vaughn this evening. I thought Sam Billings, that point was really interesting for more. You know, over the course of a tournament, even over the course of a series, your batting might go up and down, your bowling might go up and down. But the one thing that you can always control is your fielding. Yeah, for sure. And like I said, it was just uncharacteristic today. And that's the surprising thing.

We're blessed with a lot of very good athletes in the side. And certainly, well, we saw the catch from Stokes. and that's kind of the level, certainly as a squad, we set ourselves. Because that's the bizarre thing, isn't it? It comes off the back of what was a fantastic display at the Oval? Exactly, and that's just high-level sport, I suppose. You can't take anything for granted, and you still have to do the little things well consistently

to obviously put a consistent performance together. So it was just the little things that were surprising, more than anything, for me was like the backing up, for the four overthrows and I mean you're going to drop catches that's part of the game you're going to miss field at points but it's just the little things

like backing up that you can control that were more surprising really Michael from your experience as well do you think the Jason Roy drop affected everything I wouldn't say it affected everything but I think the team knew

probably half an hour later when Mohammed Afiz was still there striking it and that partnership had developed with Babara Azam that they knew they were going to have to chase the target, you know, and the target of 349. I know we're in an area where 330 plus is pretty much the norm, but chasing it down, it's never going to be easy.

And you look at two innings, one from Joe Root and Joss Butler, they were outstanding displays of batting. They really were. I mean, Butler came out there. He just makes batting look so simple. It's a different sound off the bat. You know, you go on a driving range, and you listen to Rory McElroy hit a ball.

It's a different sound. A bit different to us shanking him everywhere. to my shanks and hook left them right he's just a real cool player that goes out there and you just feel you know and I felt that he was just controlling the game

he was knocking the singles he wasn't taking on any of his high-risk shots and there's not many that are high-risk for him he was just knocking at and I thought he was controlling it but it was real good skill by Mohammed Amir that got him you know the ball before he smacked him over mid-off

it was a similar kind of ball that he got out to but you know they then brought a third man up put mid-off back and they bowled it a little bit slow and a bit wide. Joss made himself a little bit of space to whack it over extra cover, and he had to reach for it. So towards the end there, particularly someone like Wahhabriaz.

He didn't play in the series before the World Cup because he wasn't picked Shaheen Afridi had played and done pretty well. Well, they've thrown him straight. I know he's a senior place, 38, and he's been thrown in there, and he bowled quickly. And he's going to go for uns because he's that kind of bowler, but his job in this Pakistan team is to get wickets, and he got a key wicket in Johnny Beresto early,

and they did the damage in those last few overs. Mickey Arthur said about Wahabriez because he wasn't in the original World Cup squad for Pakistan Mickey Arthur said had criticised his work ethic and said he hadn't won us a game in two years and now... There you go Mickey. Yeah, yeah. I tell you what, that management,

that man management obviously works because Wahhabriyes says he wanted to prove him wrong. I tell you what, let's hear from Wahhabriaz but I do want to come back to the field Sam, I want to know what will happen now. But let's hear from Wahabriaz as Michael's brought him up. He's been talking to Eleanor Aldroyd. Well, have Reyes, congratulations on a big win.

This must feel so good after such a long run of defeats with this Pakistan team. Yes, definitely. Winning is always good. And obviously, the way we played the last game, the guys were very upset. And I think hats off to everybody in the dressing room plus the team. The way they have performed and played today, they played like the Tigers, and we really have done well to win this game. Yeah, to go from 105 all out just three days ago,

what did you do particularly to turn this around you think? I think it was just the self-belief these guys had. Everybody was really upset of what has happened against the game against West Indy. So they had that self-believe and they wanted to do good and that's why we played really well today. Two years ago in the Champions Trophy, you were heavily beaten in your first game and went on to win the Cup. Do you think you can do it again this time? We are very hopeful. We can do good.

We have that ability to win the games at any situation. We have match winners and the way we have played in the Champions Trophy, we want to play better. good cricket than that in the World Cup to win this World Cup. And what a fabulous support you've had here today. Amazing. Playing UK is the second home for us. The crowd is really good here. Very supportive and a lot of people come to cheer you up.

So it's always lovely to play in the UK. Wahab Riyaz, talking to Ellie. Sam, they showed on the TV today. Pakistan warming up at Trent Bridge ahead of this game and their batsmen being peppered with short balls because of the problems they'd had against the West Indies. So if we flip that to England now and their problems in the field today, what will they be saying and will they drill themselves differently

or will they just put it to one side and go one of those days move on? No, no, they won't do anything differently. We work very hard and as we said beforehand, we pride ourselves on the fielding certainly over the last four years. It's one of the real things that Trevor Bayliss as a coach has a huge passion for. so certainly from a kind of preparation point of view is not the fact that the work wasn't put in it was simply one of those days as you said

and yeah look I think the hype around the World Cup of course the first game and then the second game there's a little bit more of a lull the energy probably wasn't quite there to start off with and it's very hard once momentum doesn't go your way Paxton were batting very well

and to try and seize that momentum back is very difficult in any game of cricket so I think it was a compliment A combination of things, draw a line under it, and look, they'll have a response. I have no doubt about it in the next game, starting the field. And a final one on this, when somebody does what Jason Roy did and puts that catch down, as a group, do you leave the individual to get on with it? Because he was still angry half an hour later, which you can understand, obviously.

I think it depends who it is. Yeah. All right, so we're here. Jason's one of my best mates. And sometimes I just give him a little bit of space because he's bigger than me. no look the lads is such a close-knit group they look after each other so well it happens in catches go down and we've all dropped them before so like I said it's just one of those things he made a couple of really good stops towards the end so yeah like I said

just one of those things draw a line under it and on we go how difficult do you think it will be for them Michael not to be too knee jerky oh I don't think they'll react in any kind of fashion but just get back on the training field, they'll get to Cardiff over the next two or three days, do some training and they'll clear it away, they'll have some chats I would have thought about, you know, why

why was it that the England side today didn't quite look at the races out in the field and you can have bad days, but when you see, as Sam mentioned, sloppiness in terms of backing up, right, Jerry, potentially shouldn't have thrown the ball at the stumps, but this England side for four years now, if that ball goes to the stumps, there's someone

behind it, and there's someone chasing a to make sure that if Joe Root has thrown that ball, it's not going to cost a boundary. We've not seen that for a long period of time. But I'm sure they'll put it to a side. You know, they played Bangladesh on Saturday. We saw Bangladesh yesterday. You know, one of the most experienced teams in the tournament in terms of caps. You know, everyone just still thinks of Bangladesh, of this young nation that hasn't played a great deal of cricket.

Well, the Bangladesh team have played a huge amount of cricket. And as they showed against South Africa yesterday, they've got skill levels as well. So that's not going to be an easy game in Cardiff on Saturday. they'll dust themselves down the captain will do a bit of talking as will Trevor Bayliss I can't see they're going to be that much difference in the sides on Saturday in terms of personnel maybe Plunkett comes back in

we'll have to wait and see it wasn't certainly the decision to bring Mark Wood overly and Plunget today that cost England the game it was just the fielding you know that is pretty much it you can sometimes look too deep into performances of how and why it's simple England's fielding today wasn't good enough

and that's why they've lost the game in normal circumstances Sam i.e. when you're not the host country at a World Cup, is it easy to shut out the noise after a bad performance? And do you think actually it will be harder for them to shut out the noise because it is a home World Cup? Interesting one. I think wherever you play, especially nowadays with professional sport,

you get scrutinized, you get praised, wherever you are, the world of social media, etc. like that. It follows you around good and bad. So maybe a little bit more high. but as, as Vorney mentioned there, it's a very consistent, very kind of relaxed atmosphere that Owen Morgan's created and cultivated for four years that actually they're very good at just shutting out that external noise and just concentrating on exactly what needs to be done from a group point of view. So I think it's a really settled group and they enjoy each other's company and so in terms of that stuff, I'm not too worried that that will affect them at all.

Chappas, I'll say the one thing that the England side may have to get used to is... Why, are you all right? I'm not on a mower. I'm not on the outfield, just cutting the grass at Trembridge. I think it's the hovercraft covers that's coming on to our left or right. I'm certainly not doing anything other than that I shouldn't be. The one thing I'll say is the England side might have to get used to. Again on Saturday is the atmosphere in the ground.

It's different. It was different today. There was a lot more Pakistan's. supporters than possibly England making noise. You know, if you look at the four games against Pakistan, there wasn't a huge amount of support in those games for Pakistan. It was really hostile and behind the England side. You go to a game at Cardiff on Saturday.

There could be lots of Bangladesh supporters as well. You know, it's just when you get to World Cubs, it just means that little bit more. So the atmosphere just gets that little bit different in and around the grounds. And, you know, I'm pretty sure the atmosphere didn't affect, you know, the mindset of the England players. They just had one of those days where, you know, they just switched off slightly, mentally, just, I'm not saying they were complacent at all.

It just was a three and a half, three hours, 50 minute period in the field where, you know, they just didn't quite bring the A game. As you mentioned with the atmosphere, we played a game, a 2020 game against Pakistan a couple of years ago at Manchester. And it felt like an away game. It was incredible. The noise, I mean, they had those Vuvazela things and, oh, I think I'm still deaf and one here from it. But it was incredible. Certainly, I think when we see India kick off as well,

I think the support for the Indian team over here is incredible whenever we play. I think they're playing a couple of games at Birmingham, certainly the England games at Birmingham, which will be really interesting to see. So it's another factor to take into account that actually, even though it's a Homeworld Cup, there's a lot of away support for all the nations, for that matter of fact. So it's an interesting dynamic. Yeah, and also, Sam, the pictures, you know, when England play series, against all the different teams around the world leading into the World Cups.

They dictate the pitches. They know exactly what they're getting in front of the 22 yards, where it's an ICC event, so I keep going on about it. But, you know, this pitch today was certainly a lot drier than I saw two weeks ago when England played Pakistan. It not by a great deal, but there was a certain... It was certainly different to a normal Trent Bridge pitch that we're expected to see, doesn't it? I mean, that was stumping in the first innings that Joss got off Moan Ali.

You never see Trent Bridge really turn in a one-day game like that. so as soon as that happened I thought that it's definitely a different pitch to what we're used to at Trent Bridge Yeah and I think I'll just have to get used to that That's just the norm It happened in the Champions Trophy two years ago It happened four years ago

When England lost to India in the final Lost to Pakistan in the semi-final two years ago You've just got to adapt to England for four years Of won in all conditions around the world You know they've won in Australia They've won games in India They've won in the subcontinent They've won in New Zealand

They've pretty much won wherever they've travelled to So whatever the pitches are over the course of the next few weeks, they've won a game over the last few years in those kind of conditions. So they shouldn't even consider talking about what the pitchers are going to be like. They've just got to react and act to the 22 yards that they play on. No, but the atmosphere going back to that is a really interesting point because, you know, and you will have known it from the Champions Trophy as well, Sam. When it is an ICC event and, you know, I have done some of this on-pitched stuff for very many years

the cricket. But because it's an ICC event and an ICC controlled event, there is no we when you are announcing teams or trying to get the crowd going or even when it comes to the music, it's got to be neutral every step of the way. And I can remember England playing Australia at Edgebaston and the Australian team being booed by the crowd as I announced each one. And I started laughing because I thought it was very funny. And I ended up getting into trouble because I was showing a I was showing some kind of bias who told you off somebody in a suit with a lanyard around their neck you know but that but yeah but that I know but that but it's it's when Sam talks about the atmosphere they are very keen even

though it's an England World Cup to cultivate this sort of neutral atmosphere at every ground no absolutely I mean and you know Bangladesh we saw yesterday great support that India I would think that when England play India, it'll probably be 75% Indians in the crowd. So it will feel like an away game for the England side. They've got to cope with it. That's the nature of playing in World Cups. You've got to be able to cope with the noise. You've got to be able to cope with the kind of noises that aren't in your favour coming from the stands.

I'm pretty sure that the England side weren't affected by it today. They've played in hostile environments. But it's just a reminder to them over the course of the next six weeks. It's not going to feel like a normal one-day series in the UK, where pretty much 95% of the crowd are right behind you. But there's a beauty of this World Cup is a cosmopolitan World Cup's house. One of the reasons why it's here,

because there will be big Bangladesh following, there will be Aussie, big Aussie following. West Indies were out in force at Trent Bridge when they beat Pakistan. That is what you want to see at a World Cup. Exactly, and the support for every single nation. I think the greatest story actually of this whole World Cup away from England is the Afghanistan team.

I mean, incredible story that how far they've come and you see it actually whenever we've got Mohammed Nabi playing at Kent this year and we know that wherever we go, whatever away game it is, there'll be a huge Afghan following just to come and see him. And I think it's brilliant to try and access different communities around this country. I mean, the Rainbow Nation is South Africa, but it's very much the same in this country as well. And to try and get as many communities into cricket in this country is fantastic.

And so actually away from the results, such, that's probably the most important thing for the good of the game is to try and access all these different kinds of people around from every corner of our country, really. And if I go back to the scrutiny at a tournament, going back to that Champions Trophy a couple of years ago, does it change your psychology as a player? Does it feel different as soon as a trophy starts compared to just another one-day series? I mean, it has to, doesn't it? No, I don't think so. No, I think now. especially as we go back to the atmosphere kind of thing

we've all played in huge crowds and that's the great thing playing in the IPL and such countries like competitions like that you're exposed to that consistently and you get used to it so maybe it's a slight different dynamic but no I'm backing the boys

to just keep a level head and one game at a time as cliche as it sounds I think we've worked so hard towards it for the last four years that we've got the kind of process in place that we can just function normally, really. Sam Billing's in for toughers.

I mean, during this game of guessing what equipment is being used at Trent Bridge behind Michael, what have they got out now? It's the massive. What they've done, they've put some tarpaulin covers down on the pitch that they've played on, and then they're putting the hover cover over the top. That's going to get sweaty, is it? And the West Indies play Australia here on Thursday,

So it looks to me like they're going to be playing on the same wicket that they played on today. What I'll say, chap, is about having a home World Cup is, you know, I would think the England team tonight would go the separate ways, go home for a couple of days, get themselves back in the houses, away from the bubble of the World Cup tournament, and then meet up in Cardiff. Do you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's the advantage of being at home is that you should be able to disperse from each other

and spend a little bit of time away, recharge the batteries, and then meet up in Cardiff and get some proud of. he's done before Saturday. Many thanks to the anonymous texter who has said that's not the hover that they've got out of Trembridge. It's Michael's hairdry. Steady on.

Steady on. It's Sam Bill... I bet that was from Sam Billing, wasn't it? Toughers and Vaughn's Cricket Show. On Five Live. Vincent tweet from Johnny Mojo. England's tale haven't normally been needed in recent days, or recent weeks even,

recent months. As Top Order does, the business. The tail didn't wag today, so do England's tail need more match time? Michael first. No, I mean, if you look at the partnership of Joe Root and Josh Butler, you know, generally

the tail do get in, but it's only for a few hours as they did today, and you only have to look a couple of years ago when England drew with Sri Lanka, they needed 14 off the last overly and plunk it, smacked it to all parts, got the 13 and it was a tie. So, you know, Moines Alley's a slight

worry with the bat in hand. He's just not quite got his confident best at the minute. He doesn't look like he's getting in a base position like when he's at his best to strike the ball. He's just moving a little bit too much. So I think Mowing would be better off going back to base. He stands still and just use his talent, use his time, and he's a tremendous timer of a cricket ball.

He just looks like he's overthinking it at the minute. So he's the only one that I look at that I could do with a bit of time in the middle and a bit of confidence and a bit of a confidence boost. But you know, you can't be saying that it's a problem with the tail end when England. They've only lost by 14, and the fielding was atrocious. I know, but this kind of backs my point out of me. I know, you know, Twitter isn't the most positive of mediums anyhow. But, you know, there is going to be a lot more attention on England losing the game at the World Cup, Sam,

than there is if they just lost one of the series in normal bilateral series against Pakistan, isn't it? That's the way it is. Yeah, it is the way it is, like you said. But, no, Moen Ali was one of the players or standout before. was certainly from an English point of view in the IPL and that's not that long ago where he was smacking it to all parts and I mean the value he offered RCB in the tournament over there was huge so he's the kind of player that as Michael said it will turn around quite quickly if he if he just spends it at five ten balls it could be one shot over extra cover that gets him going and he can win a game on his own there's no doubt about that so by the way you're talking from the middle of a car park or something that's coming from where you are is it yeah exactly yeah Don't get him, us. We're quite happily in studios that are soundproofed. I think he's Charlie Dagnon, Charlie, get out of the car park.

Alex Stewart said the hardest runs to score are the ones after 100, actually, once you've got in, rather than the nervous 90s. Did we see that from Root and Butler today, or could you kind of understand what they were trying to do because of what the run rate was, Sam? Look, those two, as Michael alluded to earlier, in terms of when you watch both of them back, obviously, in completely different ways, but there's a huge sense of calm every time you see them get in and score runs. So, I mean, Joss, arguably one of the best, well, top three white ball cricketers in the world. There's no doubt about that at the moment. And he can change a game. Look, they got them back into a position there and just didn't quite get over the line. There's fine margins at the end of the day

and two guys have played outstandingly well and as Joe mentioned, very frustrating not to kind of just get over the line in those close games. Those two are the kind of individuals chappers that they'll be in that dressery and blaming themselves. That kind of personality is that they take it on themselves

to expect that once they get in like they did Joe, 107 off 104, Butler 103 off 76 they and themselves expect to win the game. You know, they expect to be not out at the end of game, shaking the opponent's hand. But, you know, that is, you know, what one day creak it's all about. I look at it. You could say they made mistakes. I thought it was really good tactics by Pakistan.

The first one from Shadab Khan to Joe. He just fired it a bit wider. He saw Joe had given himself a bit of space outside a leg stump. Fired it a bit wider. Joe went for the kind of long handles, to try and get something on it, and it flew too short third man. Very similar for Mohammed Amir to Josh Butler. So tactically and skillfulness of the bowling teams and the fielding captain,

you know, I thought they produced a bit of magic Pakistan. Those balls can easily travel into the gap and it goes to four. And we say, oh, you know, it's a boundary in England. They've gathered a bit more momentum. It's just the nature of Wanda Creek. Joe Ritt was dropped early, you know, in the slip corner. He could have been out quite soon. The one thing that I looked at Safra's Ahmed when Riyaz came in,

when Butler just arrived at the crease, they didn't put a slip in place. And I'd be saying to the Safran Armaged, why don't you put a slipping player when you've got your attack baller to the most dangerous player in the England side? He didn't use Shadab Khan straight away when Butler came in. Joss was on 23 by the time that the leg spinner had come on to ball. And I thought they were saving the leg spinner for Butler to arrive at the crease. So a few little tricks that Pakistan could have done differently. But it's been a magnificent game of cricket.

You know, there's been drops, there's been fumbles, there's been incredible striking, there's been some unbelievable skill with the ball in hand. and an atmosphere that I'll remember for a long time. There was nearly a man cad as well with Hafiz and Ben Stokes. I don't know if there was. I didn't see that. No, what?

I think he loses his run-up and the kind of grip of the ball in his fingers. Right. And because he's had issues with his action before, I think he has to have everything right before he releases the ball. Don't be so pessimistic. I don't think he was man-cad.

Well, I hope no. We're not going to go back to what Ravi Ashwin. I know there's many things. saying that he was right, he was in the legality of the law, yeah, but maybe he was just losing his reign. He did it in the one day series a couple of times, and I think it's because he's just a bit suspect of his action. Okay. Will it be spoken about in the England dressery? I hope not. No? I just hope it's, for me anyway, I just hope it's not a part of the game going forward. It's, yeah, the one in the IPL, I've got to be careful what I say, but

for me there's just no place for that in the game just say what you want Sam no one's listening I want to play in the IPL game board Michael well actually speaking of you then moving swiftly on we have how are you how is your shoulder we have had text on asking how you are yeah it's slow progress thanks

but it's a month after the operation so operation went well thankfully so yeah thanks for asking it's it's starting to get above 90 degrees now so hopefully picking up a bat in probably four weeks so fingers crossed it must be very i mean this is such an obvious thing to say but it must be incredibly frustrating for you at this time really if i'm honest it was a weird feeling i was doing the sky stuff just before uh it was a preview show before uh the game against south africa the other day and i've i've had a really

good break a force break obviously away from cricket and being on the road for the last four or five years, my own accord, playing different competitions and touring, etc., etc. But actually to have a break away from the game has been really healthy, both physically and mentally. So there's a huge positive coming out of this situation. I'm not going to lie, when the boys were warming up the other day

and I was sat there watching, it was a bit gutting, of course. But, look, it is part of top-level sport, unfortunately. And look, there's a lot more cricket. it's 30 for me to play and hopefully in an England shirt moving forward there's a 2020 World Cup next year which I've set my sights on and and look that's that's what I've got to focus Sam can I can I how do you we're going you know we hear so much in terms of people struggling mentally and a lot of it can come down from an injury or you know a lack of form or something

not going right in your life how do you be so positive you seem to have an incredible positive outcome and an outlook on life even though you've you're missing in a World Cup. You could be out there playing with your team. How do you get that mindset? Because simply put, there's a lot more worse people off around the world. And I know it's a very deep and deep thing to say as such. But look, I will get better.

It's three months, four months out, playing a game I love, of course. But look, it's not the end of the world. I will be back. I could be in James Taylor's shoes, for example, where he had to give up the game we all love overnight basically so look injuries are part and parcel of what happens

in sport and it's just a shame it's happened now but as I said look I will definitely improve both as a cricketer and a person from this experience I have no doubt about that I think you learn far more about yourself in times of strife

or negative situations and it's about turning those and making them positive ones and as you say you've gone around the world of your own accord, but the cricketers' lifestyle, even if you are just with no despair, but even if you are just a county cricketer without everything else that you are doing, you are on the road for a lot of the summer, aren't you? So is it actually just quite nice to be at home? Yeah, well, exactly. And to be honest, that's why my girlfriend still likes me, you see. I'll never see her.

Chapman, did you not see that he was at the Monaco Grand Prix? no I didn't see that no you're talking to royalty here thanks for that morning was that in one of the was that with one of the teams it was yeah I was lucky enough to be invited by Mercedes so

it's been on the bucket list as I'm sure it is for a lot of people so I was very lucky and very fortunate like I said out of a negative situation opportunities arise so I had to jump at that one chap so do you get to talk to Hamilton in that situation

I said well done Yeah that's a conversation Did he say that? No problem Sammy old boy Thanks old chap Trevor in Clitherow has sent us an email Going back to today's game

Clitherow In Clitherow yeah Lankishire it's the right side of the Pennine Sam North of Watford Very much so He says yet again England Have fallen well below the required overrate

There is a serious point here actually Today, the Pakistan innings was scheduled to finish it. Two, it ran on until 2.17. Owen Morgan's already been banned for a game for a slow overrate. It's obviously creepy into the game with greater frequency. It's something that's mentioned a lot on TMS. Can the relevant administrators of the game deal with the matter properly? Add runs to the batting side, 10 and over for overs that aren't bold.

If they did, the matter would be resolved overnight. They aren't going to do that, but it could lead to Owen Morgan being banned later in the tournament. Yeah, I mean, I would like to see run penalties for over-ray. I think it's creeping into the game too often, particularly in T20 cricket, and, you know, a final two, it didn't really have the effect. Owen, Morgan, missing two games of the World Cup. Now, that is a penalisation. I actually looked at England in the field today, and I just wonder, you know,

if I was giving them any advice, was that one of the reasons why they weren't quite on it? They weren't quite sprightly around the overs, you know, running to the positions. Generally, when you watch England in the field, there's such a well-old unit that you're looking around. You just know where everyone's going to be. There was four or five occasions today that I looked out to the outfield and there was a few fielders that moving and almost didn't know where they were meant to be and that's not something that I'd seen

from this England side for a long period of time. So maybe that is one of the things that they have to talk about is look, our intention out in the middle when we field is got to be fully on it all the time and that means from over to over we're sprinting to make sure that we're in the right positions. But they were at the Oval though, Sam. I mean

there was intensity there. Yeah like I mentioned before, maybe Maybe the intensity was there for the first game of the World Cup, everyone's up, and the energy's high because of the situation. And then you have a little lull because it's the second game. You've got into, there's so much kind of tension waiting for that first game. And then there's a bit of a plateau. Hopefully this is a slight plateau, and then the energy gets back up.

I think Vaughney's point about going home, refreshing, and a lot of the guys have got young families now and spending a couple of days away from the group, it is healthy a lot of the time when you're spending time on the road with the same group the whole time that it can be draining they need to go and have a couple of days in clitherow exactly they're getting good talking to get some honesty up there wouldn't they listen as a lancashire and let me tell you

day out in lancashire is good for the soul and good for the spirit so you know don't you forget Edged as a son of that. Don't worry about that? Absolutely. I'm just reminding Michael, none of this Yorkshire nonsense. No, I didn't mention that. No, I know you didn't. They'll be fine.

Owen Walker's a tremendous leader. I've just listened to his press conference. He was very candid, very calm, spoke with great clarity, dead simply, said we fielded poorly. Weren't quite at the races out in the field. That's what cost the team the game. When you think you've only lost by 14,

you've given away so many runs in the field And they didn't, I think, also bowling, I thought they overdid the short ball. You know, probably of what they saw against the West Indies here on this venue, West Indies bowling, Pakistan out for 105. They probably overdid that where there was just a little bit of nibble there with the seamers early. They could have got it a bit fuller and a little bit straighter as well. Every time they went full to FAC as a man, it was just outside off stump. And he's got that 45-degree angle back that he crashes it through the off-side.

All right on another day, one or two of those drives might have gone straight to hand, but they didn't. And Pakistan, fully deserved their win because of the, nature of their mentality today they certainly gave it a good old go today Pakistan that's been a bit of a theme of the whole World Cup by the looks of it watching all the games and everything is the short ball's been used a hell of a lot

and maybe sides certainly I think I saw practice yesterday of the Pakistanis that they just practice for shortball basically so they knew it was coming so yeah maybe have to look at those tactics a little bit differently and certainly the

slower balls into the pitches they used that very well towards the back end of that innings and going back a little bit further, as we mentioned earlier, I think that's the difference between the series beforehand that we saw Pakistan team that kind of lacked a bit of that experience and that nowse. With Amir and also Wahab there, the death, you just saw two death bowlers knowing exactly what they needed to do

and go out and execute basically. And also the left arm option against a lot of right-handers, admittedly Moen Ali's the left-hander there. But a lot of the right-handers, down in the back end of the England order is something definitely a match-up worth mentioning as well. Expand it more to the bowling in this tournament

in general, you would say at the moment that bowling's been on top, wouldn't you? Definitely. Certainly the 10.30 starts in England is a huge thing. Whenever, as a captain, if you turn up at a ground and it's 10.30 start, you're going to bowl first, really. There's going to be

more in it, certainly this in the morning. So it is... Just that'll be the case, Sam. When you think of the last two games. You know, South Africa won the toss yesterday. Bold, lost. Bangadets got 3.30. Owen won the toss this morning,

Bold. Paki Stan got 348, lost. Do you think there'll be a change throughout the tournament that potentially tactics might change in terms of the decision at the toss that, you know, these pitches are drier. They're certainly drier than I saw in the series before the World Cup, and I'm sure as the tournament

progresses, that they'll get dry and dry, and spin will play more of a part. And I just wonder if batting first is going to be the way to go as the tournament progresses. That was the interesting thing about the South Africa game is that they, on a used pitch that was used the other day, that they decided to bowl for us. So like you said, I didn't see the pitch this morning,

but being drier and very untrend, bridge-like, really. I've never seen a ball spin there. Normally spins just straight off the bat. So that was interesting, certainly watching that game today. I know it's a small ground, but maybe assessing those conditions where we normally used to rocking up and having a flat as a pancake pitch,

obviously not in our hands now. So maybe looking into that a little bit more is definitely a factor. It was a bit of a reminder of the old days where a team got a score on the board today and you could see the chasing team, that one partnership of Joe Root and Josh Butler, and you always felt one wicket,

and it was just going to change. And that was exactly right, and when I came, and it was difficult, very difficult when you first go out there, and the rates already at tens and 11th under the pressure of the World Cup. And I just wonder, as the tournament progresses,

where the teams will see, I think we'll get the runs on the board and just try and offer the chase and try and put the pressure on the batting team. I just think we might see a change in tactics over the course of the World Cup. But that's going to be the beauty, isn't it? The difference in tactics and whether there will be trends. So, you know, there's already been one,

if you want to call it a trend. Imran Tahir, opening for South Africa. Shadab Khan today. Shadab today, first time he'd ever open the bowling for Pakistan. Yeah, well, the good thing, The World Cup needs a balance between battenball. It needs competition between the batsmen and the bowler. And we've had that so far.

We really have. We've seen a World Cup where we've had the West Indies bowl, Pakistan out, for 105. Sri Lanka get bowled out by New Zealand. You know, Afghanistan just scraped to over 200. So they've not been huge scores. And I just think it's been the quality of the bowling. I really do. I think there's been some real quality, particularly quick bowling.

I mean, the West Indians, they were, I mean, the massive. We're talking about a side today. as well nearly 700 runs have been scored so we're saying batting hasn't dominated but still I mean yesterday that's a hell of low runs yeah it is isn't it and yet but it felt today

particularly with Pakistan at times that we were seeing some really clever bowling today and certainly West Indies against Pakistan had a plan and executed it perfectly yeah what we saw in the chase for England that Pakistan

were making it very difficult usually you know, even though Butler got 100 off only 70 or ball, you never felt that he could just strike it to the boundary. And sometimes when you, you know, you saw the 50 ball 100 he got against Pakistan at the Gilles' ball. That was just brutal. You know, that was just bullying of the highest order. Today, and Joe Root just maneuvering the ball into the gaps,

you know, 100 balls and getting a century. He's the glue in this England side. Different kind of batsmen. I just think we're going to see different types of games across all the different venues in the UK. that's why it's such a special place to play cricket because you're never quite sure what you're going to get from venue to venue

but it's a real nice competition to see that those four days games against Pakistan I got a bit bored it just like oh this is just too one-sided the baller absolutely nothing you're a batsman Michael I know but I just got a bit bored Sam I was like come on I want to see a little bit of something

whether it's bounce a bit of movement and so far in the World Cup I think it's been nice and fair between bat and ball Do you think that decision to open with Shadow today came because of that first baller for Johnny Barstow for South Africa? Oh yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I mean it's roll up

for the leg spinners, for all the teams that's what Jason Roy and Johnny Barstow are going to get. No question. I think any batsman nowadays, certainly is a right-hander. It's what you expect. Look at 2020 now. Who are all the top bowlers in the world? They're all leg spiners.

They're a wicket-taking threat. And I mean, Adel Rashid, that was the difference for me today as well, aside from the fielding, was how they played Adil Rashid. Adil's been an X-factor bowler throughout the middle and taking wickets through that middle stage consistently. And Hafiz is a fantastic player of spin and got on top of him today. So maybe going forward, sides will look at that and go, right, how are we going to put pressure on Adil certainly through those middle overs?

Yeah, I'm looking at Shackiebel Hassan for Bangladesh. No real leg spin for Bangladesh. I think Shaky will open the ball in against the two right-handers on Saturday in Cardiff. The one good thing for the likes of Roy and Bair's doing Cardiff that hitting it down the ground is so short that it might nullify that kind of tactic and they may think that they have to go to the seamers

because of the boundary sizes, but I'm pretty sure they'll risk a couple of overs at spin at the start. He's just wily, isn't he? He changes his pace, hasn't got that kind of turning it both ways, but he's an experienced campaigner for sure. And therefore, you know, talking of Bangladesh, there will be a lot of people who go, well, we're very surprised that they beat South Africa.

But let's not forget, they're a good international one-day side. You've got to the semi-final of the Champions Trophy, Sam, in these conditions two years ago in England. Exactly. They're a surprise package for sure. And look, people are saying that they're not that surprised at South Africa, they turn South Africa over. But South Africa is seriously good side as well.

So I think it just shows how. how even this World Cup's going to be, especially with the different conditions, as Michael spoke about. But Bangladesh, they're a tricky side. Tammy McBow has yet to get going. Didn't get going the other day, but he's a very good kind of player at the top of the order and dangerous when he gets going.

But Shaqeeb, as Michael mentioned, both with the bat and ball. He's done it across all different formats around the world. So it's going to be an interesting matchup. In terms of caps, they've got more experience than England. they've got around 100 caps more experience from the 11 that they started against South Africa yesterday

to the 11 that started for England today so they're, I mean, it's just whether they've got the skills for the different kind of conditions. If the pitch is very similar to the one that we saw New Zealand beat Sri Lanka on the other day in Cardiff, there's a bit of green grass, a bit of seam movement. You can tell which one was

the strip? No, I know, it was that great. England won't want that kind of strip. Definitely, definitely. Speaking of different strips and and different pitch. I know that just going back to England's game against South Africa at the Oval because, you know, we should still talk positives here as well.

You were impressed how they adapted. 100%. Yeah, we had a conversation as a squad when we lost a game in New Zealand a couple of years ago in 2018. And it was a real in-depth chat. We haven't really had too many of those over the last couple of years.

But we'd lost a game. We'd continue to kind of play in one gear as such and it was just chucking it out there do we need to maybe be a bit more intelligent about how we go about things and i think that was the great thing certainly about that south africa game it wasn't just one tempo is it was a very controlled very experienced and just really calm performance uh certainly with a bat in hand so it was an interesting thing certainly watching from the side that it shows how how far the sides come you've kind of always playing in sixth gear and going at 100 miles per hour.

But there's far more to the batting unit. Certainly, as Michael mentioned, Joe Root, sorry, is really the glue in that side. So was that a conversation that just happened organically after a defeat? Or was that something that you, as a unit, sat down and tried to work out what had gone wrong? No, Treve Bayliss kind of started the conversation as such and just chucked the question out there. And it just turned into a really organic conversation that kind of evolved and we're probably sat in there for half an hour, 40 minutes and just chatting about how we're going about it.

And I mean, what came out of it was staying true to exactly what we're good at. And as a group, that is playing positive cricket and always taking the positive option. But also staying true to who you are as an individual. I saw Joe Root in an interview on Sky with Ian Ward. either today or yet, to, anyhow, recently, saying that he had learned recently

to not try and bat in one day as like somebody else, to bat like he or to bat. To be honest, I'd like to bat like Joe Roo, would you? But that's kind of going along your same point, isn't it? Exactly, yeah. Is the role that Joe plays compared to Josh Butler is a completely different one, and they're both the best in the world

when they're on fire at exactly what they do. do well and that's a great lesson for all athletes regardless of sport is just do exactly what you're good at and just stay true to that really um that's why you've been picked that's why you're in the side in in the first place so uh that was ultimately what the foundation of this whole side is built upon and and that goes back to owen morgan in the first series my debut series that that whole kind of turn around of the mindset of this England side where it was the last ODI against New Zealand

in Durham and he hold out first ball trying to take the left arm spinner down and it's exactly even though it didn't come off it's the example set by the captain and you're always going to always going to follow a person like that that stays true to exactly what he wants other

people to do. Michael? Yeah I mean I think the way that they played at the elbow in the first game was smart. You know it was as good a first game World Cup performance that I've seen from an England side for many, many tournaments. And, you know, just because it's not gone right today, they certainly shouldn't be down in the dumps. It should just be very honest with themselves, whatever happened in the field, get that mindset right, be a bit more aggressive, get through the over's quicker. That can instigate a little bit more positivity through the body with the bat in hand.

I don't see any problems whatsoever with the ball in hand. Yeah, one of two things today worked quite as good as in South Africa. the lens were a little bit indifferent and a few of the tactical things didn't quite come off. A couple of the field settings weren't quite spot on like we saw against South Africa

but no time to panic. Get to Clitherow. Have a couple of days in Clitherow and then get to Cardiff. By the way, if you don't get offered a trip to Clitheroe after the last half hour I'd be very, very surprised. Just a final thing

because I've just been told Joe Root wouldn't talk about what the umpires were saying about the condition of the ball. In both sides, when they were fielding, the umpires seemed to be very concerned about the teams throwing the balls in on the bounce. Yeah, yeah, that's... So are we, I mean, is this just specific today?

Do you think we're going to be in for a World Cup like this? Oh, I think because the balls are doing nothing, you know, I think teams are, you know, it's a trick of the trade. You get the ball and you fling it, one bounce into the keeper. There's plenty of... It's not much fun being keeper, but... No, there's...

Absolutely, there's plenty of wicket ends and you try and get a little bit of something on one side of the board to potentially get the ball swinging around. That's been happening. for years and years. What the umpires do, they keep an eye out. There was quite a few cases today where the fielding teams were throwing the ball on the bounce from 10 yards, 15 yards, and that's when they stepped to, and they went, look, you can't do that. You've got to be able to throw it

over the top of the stumps, or at least into the keepers' gloves from that kind of raise. It looked to me like they were on it. What you've got to be careful as a team when you're out there is that, you know, England did it. England were out in the field. They were doing the same as Pakistan. When the chase is on, the pressure's on, you can't then start pointing the fingers and all what they're doing. Also, the LED digital lightings around the ground, when the ball hits the lighting, it's obviously quite sharp, and there's little chunks get taken out the ball. And that's why you see the umpires having a look at. But you've got to remember, the umpires get the ball at the end of every over now, because there's two white balls at either end.

So there's no way that you can get away with anything. There was nothing to run towards. There was a little bit of gamesmanship, but both teams were doing it. Do you agree, Sam? Yeah, spot on. It's just one of those things, especially you talk about it. Certainly from the deep is chucking it in at the keeper's ankles and on the half of it, which isn't much fun, like I said.

And, yeah, it's just one of those things, unfortunately. It's just, they like to keep it off the wicket, understandably. Yeah, just get away from the wicket. Put it this way, chappers. I didn't see the ball hooping around. No. The ball wasn't swinging, so whatever was happening out there, it wasn't working. Sam, thank you very much for being with us. Hope to see you again during the World Cup.

Thank you very much. And thank you, Michael. Unplug your hair dryer and go home. Hey, steady on. Tough as and Vaughn's Cricket Show. On Five Live.