Test Match Special - Tuffers and Vaughan: The fast bowling special

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

Sir Curtly Ambrose and Robin Smith explain the arts of both bowling fast, and facing pace. Curtly tells us that it’s all about building up a reputation, whilst Robin says that it helps to imagine a line half way down the pitch. Plus Ebony Rainford Brent joins us in place of Tuffers to speak about where England went wrong against Sri Lanka, and what they need to do against Australia. And we hear a from a very prescient Virat Kohli, with his pre-tournament prediction.

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on fast bowling a little later Michael which should be fun Yeah absolutely and we're speaking to two of the best One in facing it, Robin Smith and one in delivering quick bowling, Kirkley Ambrose No Tuffers today He's probably injured himself on the luge or something Which if you were listening last week you will understand

Ebony Rain for Brent joins us instead Do you think the last few days We've seen the tournament come alive Ebony Without doubt it's now opened up the competition We see nearly the biggest upset with Afghanistan I think well that West Indies game I think all our heart rates were at the top there Brilliant weekend of cricket

How we change our tune Last week we were thinking that it hasn't cut through Now oh everything's right as right again So fast bowling to come Well I swear it went wrong for England Howdy can put it right against Australia And don't forget there's a tough as I'm born Every Monday throughout the World Cup

And the Ashes All you've got to do Subscribe to the TMS podcast via BBC Sounds or your usual podcast app. Suffer's and Vaughn's Cricket Show on Five Live. And before we hear more from Michael and Ebony, let's hear from Virac Koli, because this is what he said before the tournament began.

260, 270 is going to be as difficult to get in a World Cup as chasing 380 or 370. I don't see many high-scoring games happening at the later half of the tournament. Yeah, initially some teams might get on a roll, but you'll see 250 defended as well. That's the kind of pressure the World Cup brings. When you get to the latter stages, why could it go? Why might it not be as free-flowing with the bat?

Well, look, it really depends on not all the teams are going to be in a great position. So the ones that sort of have to make sure that they get the result are the ones that are going to be under pressure to chase even a small scoredown. So I think it's just the fact that you're going to get closer to the knockout stages is what's going to bring more pressure in the later half of the tournament. I think all the teams recognize that. No one's going to go gung home, you know, right from ball one. In pressure games in a World Cup,

you might get a team that just goes on a role, but I think generally both teams would like to start in a balanced way and then find their way into the game and look to capitalize when the moment comes in. So I see the pressure playing a massive factor in the second half. Well, there's no doubt he knows what he's talking about, Michael, because he's been proved right. Yeah, and you should say that.

He was talking about England just on Friday against Sri Lanka. I mean, it was a bizarre day because England controlled the innings out in the field. They were magnificent with the ball, very good in the field. I don't think there was one person watching or in the ground that didn't think England were going to stroll that 2.33. And it was even at the stage at the halfway that you're thinking, Netrum rate, can they win in 35, 40 overs,

get another victory? Can James Vins go and get a score? Give himself a confidence boost. But it was Johnny Baxter's first ball dismissal that triggered it. You know, Johnny went out there for whatever reason. He didn't have the right gloves. You know, he strolls out there. He's had to change his glove before he's face to ball.

So that, for me, sends a message that he wasn't ultimately switched on. You don't take two left-handed gloves or two right-anded gloves out as an international opening batsman. So that was a little bit of a sign for me. James Vins played a big drive. Caught in the slit, Malinga was magnificent. You know, I know a few people have said, oh, England went back to play in the old way. They didn't. They tried to go after Sri Lanka.

Sri Lanka ball, great. The pitch wasn't conducive to that kind of. of play. Owen Morgan came in. He tried to hit one over the top early and it stuck in the wicket and it just went high over mid on. You know, an old traffel when the ball skidding on

that goes into the stand. So that was the kind of pitch that England were batting on. 170 for five, needing a runner ball game done and dusted. Moines just hit the six. He then tries to hit a six the next ball. He's caught on the edge and many say,

oh yeah, but if it had gone for six, he'd have said, great shot. It didn't. He was out and England lost the game. So that for me is where England And everyone has spoken about this thing inside, and we have, of how good a one-day team they are. They're very, very good.

The one area that we've all had concerns about is what happened on Friday, where they just need to be smarter and you've just got to win the game. You've got to win ugly. And if it means winning ugly by just knocking it around and getting over the line, New Zealand did it.

They've done it twice. They did it about Bangladesh, they did it again South Africa. And now he's going to put themselves in a position where I see that they have to beat Australia tomorrow. I see if they don't win tomorrow, I think they're in for a bit of a shock. Well, let's concentrate on England then,

and then we'll come on to the tournament as a whole. And the hubbub you'll be able to hear in the background is Ebony is at the, hang on, Hampshire Bowl. Always have to remember what it's called at the moment. Well, actually, I heard Andy Salzman on TMS call it the Rose Bowl earlier, which is going back two incarnations. So Ebony at the time of recordings, watching Afghanistan, Bangladesh.

But as far as England are concerned, what do you want to see from them tomorrow? Well, the frustrating thing from, you know, even I completely agree with everything Vaughney said, but the frustrated thing is coming into this tournament, one of England's strengths is how deep this side batted. I think if anyone spoke about England's strength, it's not only that they've posted big scores, it's that you genuinely go down to sort of number 10 who are genuine batters who you could think could score you runs. We've seen Plunkett get them out of holes, Rashid. So at some stage, I think I wanted to see that intelligence come in

at the back end. You know, Ben Stokes really applied himself and I actually thought he might of squeezed over the line, but it was the wicket of Moines Alley for me really frustrated me. It was just about hanging in there. And then you just think, well, if we have got this team that bat deep, how are we not able to translate? And you look at one thing that Australia and New Zealand have done well throughout this tournament, they've been in tricky moments, but they've pulled it out the bag, whether it's to catch on the boundary to win the game against West Indies for New Zealand,

whether it was the Bangladesh game where it was scrappy, but they got over the line. And you look at teams like Australia, they were against West Indies. there were five down for 80 and they find a way to score and get up to near 300. So England have just got to have that ruthlessness for me and they've got the batting line up to do it. So that's where the issue comes. I think with Jason Roy injury,

that maybe just affects things at top order. And Vince, as much as he's a pretty looking player, you just don't have the confidence he's going to get England off to the start that you need from the top order. Against Sri Lanka, awokes and Rashid is culpable as Moen Ali then if you're talking about that lower order. I mean, you could even throw Joffa Arch in as well.

Yeah, definitely. The Moines Alley one for me, he'd already gone for the boundary, and he just nailed it straight to the field. And even if you are going to play your shots, you've got to look at your angles and where you're trying to really imprint on the game. And sometimes it's just about small thinking margins. And that sort of stuff, yes, you wanted more from your top order,

but equally that's going to happen, and you need your lower order batters to get you out of jail, and they didn't do that. Yeah, I mean, everyone can highlight Jason Roy being injured. is a big loss, is a world-class performer. But when you need 60-odd off 11 overs, five wickets in the tank, Ebony has mentioned that the England batting line up is so.

You should get that. With that England side, with what they've done over four years, I would say 98 times out of 100. They're that good of a team. And the only thing that will let them down is what they did on Friday, where they went a little bit too soon.

They almost want to win the stylish way all the time. Just win. You know, in a World Cup. You know, the English fans wouldn't have been bothered on Friday of England have scraped home in the 49th up, just win the game. And when you've got a batsman that's in, I thought Ben Stokes played great. You know, I thought he read the pitch well. He played it really late under his island.

He played a couple of punch through mid-wickets, which I'm pretty sure he was just trying to knock it for two. And he timed it so beautifully, it ended up going for four on two or three occasions. And he was reading the situation. And when the tail ender does come in, when you've got a player that's in, not out, your job is just to go, okay, thank you. We'll give you the one, Ben, over to you. And Joffre Archer, absolutely right, Chappas, he should be caught out at long gone with Ben Stokes at the other end is poor thinking.

And that is the only thing that I can see will stop the England side from first and foremost qualifying for the semi-finals and also potentially winning the World Cup because they've been in two tight matches in this World Cup and they've lost them both. New Zealand have won three tight games. So we haven't won that tight game yet. Because the debate around Moines Ali's shot, I find absolutely. fascinating just as a as a fan but also as the psychology of sport ebony as well so you're encouraging your squad to play with risk and to play with freedom. Paul Farbrace on TMS after the defeat said he you know he backed Moen Alley for that shot so you can't have it both ways can you?

No, I've always felt that England had been a little bit too free on Moen Alley if I'm honest I'm going back to the ashes I know this is a different format but in Australia down at Melbourne and he was in a bad stretch and he came out and were just playing big shots and ended up getting caught on the boundary for no runs. I remember thinking at that moment, that's when the coaches need to sit down and say, this freestyle, you've got to apply yourself to different situations. He's a better batter than that. When he's come in at the top order, he's, you know, he's throwing the bat at it.

And look, when it comes off, it looks glorious. But unfortunately, as a batter, we all know it's not going to come off every day. You've got to think through your innings, where are your angles? Where are you going to just build? That's what the best batters in the world. do he's better than that for me and he has that ability but I don't think the coaching staff

like for some reason he's given this sort of when he used the whether it's his bowling they say he's the second best bowler at times whether it's his batting that's just how he plays no at times your best players need to pull their brain in and get focused on what you've got to deliver so I don't know what it is around that

around Ali why they allow that but someone's got to say something and apply thinking because it's going to it could end up costing England the World Cup because let's face it, they've got the best three teams to play in the tournament. Ebbyn, it's about winning the game.

You know, they can protect him as much as they want. You know, it's about winning the game. They lost, end off. And you could say, oh, that's the mindset of the team. The mindset of the team has to be to win the game. And on that occasion at Head and Lee,

it wasn't required for him to go for six again after just hitting a sixth ball before. He'd taken the pressure out the whole game. It almost done his job, right? The ball's right in his slot, But he had to make it. He had to go down and try and look for it. He didn't need to go looking for it at that stage.

And, you know, I do worry that when England get into these tight situations, the gung-ho style, which we do applaud them for it, and at the right time, it's the way to play. We've seen that. It is the way to play. But when you're chasing a total, there needs to be a bit more smartness. You've got to have that now. You've got to be able to read the situation.

You've got to have players that just maybe just go back in the gears a little bit just to win the game. You can't just go out there and be in fifth gear all the time and I like seeing them when they're chasing down targets particularly a small one like 233 you've got to be able to go

alright get into fifth gear we've taken the risk now we'll go back into second gear and there you go just not the ball around end of the game shake hands win the contest so this may be

being mischievous or being me playing devil's advocate is Carlos Brathaway at fault for West Indies not beating New Zealand potentially oh that's I think you're right, Vordy.

One thing is how many balls were left? There were a lot of balls left. Could have taken one, He could have taken the last over? I completely agree. That's one thing that, look, fair play, he took it all the way to the death. But I did keep thinking there are six balls, seven balls left in this inning.

So, you know, there is criticism there. I think I'm the only one with a heart. No, exactly. I'm doing, you know what? I was watching it and I was thinking, go on, go for a six. So I'm with you. But ultimately, the high level sport is about fine margins.

That was the finest of margins. Another metre of airtime and that's over the ropes and the West Indies win the game. I guess another metre of height in Moen Alley's it goes over the round, I'm pretty sure, Ingle one of the game. But ultimately it's about the end result. And when your team lose, you know,

you have to look at mistakes that players have made. Moen Alley made a big mistake on Friday. Before we started this, you were sitting there with your phone looking at fixtures and tables, managing to come up with all sorts of combinations and concoctions that if you're a, in England, cricket fan, could be quite depressing.

Well, I'm just looking at teams like Sri Lanka. So Sri Lanka have played six and have six points. Bangladesh played six and have five points. They're playing Afghanistan today, which I feel will get over the line. So that takes Bangladesh to seven points. So Bangladesh can get to 11. Sri Lanka can get to 12. Pakistan can get to 11.

So I've been hearing over the course of the last few days that England only need to win one of the last three. I think that's very, very dangerous. I think they need to win two of the last three. because those three teams that I've just mentioned, one can get to 12 points, one can get to 11, and one can get to 11, which is Pakistan and Bangladesh. And by the way, Pakistan play Bangladesh in the last game. So that's one of them getting two points.

Well, unless it rains. You would feel that one of those three, if Pakistan beat New Zealand, they've got Afghanistan to play as well, you'd feel that's a definite two points. If Pakistan beat New Zealand on Wednesday, I think Pakistan ended up potentially with 11 points. So all this talk of England only need to win one of the last three,

And also Ebony, Michael's other theory is that India still have to play Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and therefore Will could have a say in it depending on who they might want in the last four. Conspiracy theory, conspiracy theory. I was going to say, I was saying earlier, there's a lot of conspiracy. India had a really nice run. They started the latest of all teams in the tournament. Then they had a nice run and had put the wins on the board. And like you say, now at the back end. And this is where the messups for England are really frustrating because they know. that the final three games, we knew straight away when looking at that line up, when you've got Australia, India and New Zealand, all pretty much favourites are up there to win. You've got to clean up the games against the Sri Lanka's who are pretty much low down the pecking order. But like you say, India, they're placed nicely. New Zealand have quietly gone about their business and won. And I think Bangladesh have really just kept themselves in. They could end up having a little sneaky run in the final games. And well, England will be a little bit twitchy, I would say. cheek ebbs, and I tell you why.

Sri Lanka, play South Africa, already knocked out. Sri Lanka, play West Indies, already knocked out. Sri Lanka. Where's the last game? India. India.

India in the last game. Now, if you're India and you're playing Sri Lanka in the last game, again, I don't want to sound that a bit of school duggery. Would India prefer Sri Lanka or England in the semi-finals? You do the maths. Pretty obvious. I answer that England need to win two of the last.

last three games. And they have to win tomorrow because I won't want to leave it needing to beat India at Edgebaston on Sunday and to beat New Zealand. I've been in great form at Chester the Street a week on Wednesday. Just one on, I want to do one on New Zealand and one on Australia and then we'll go on to fast bowling. Where do you think, and it might be an impossible question to answer everybody, but where do you think this New Zealand inner strength comes from to consistently get over the line in the tight games from their captain? Yeah, I think there's something about them is that they're quietly confident. I think they just do their disciplines very well. They know that their strength has been their scene bowling. They've been outstanding throughout this

tournament. But I just feel that you look at Kane Williamson as a leader. You know, there was no noise coming in. There was no sort of hype or any sort of major noise. And they just came in and won. Just keep winning, winning, winning. And even at the last moment, I think it was Trent Bolt who took the catch. And he looked as calm as. There was no sort of nerves. I think it's the way they, I think that was sort of started in the generation of Brendan McCullum in the side, the culture that they have. They're just disciplined. They do the business. They don't try and sort of get into any sort of extra news or extra things going on in the outside. They just focus on what they're good at. And their bowling has been outstanding. And they've

just managed to handle the pressure. Ebony, thank you for the moment. He's, when I did the captain's day, he was, I mean, a lot of them were laid back. But he was just, I mean, he's just takes, seems to take everything in his stride. Yeah, I mean he is, you know, if you're asking any sportsperson that's coming through the kind of academy systems, both boys and girls,

just study Brendan McKean Williamson because, you know, he's just got that mentality of just playing the game for what it is. You know, I don't think he gets overly excited when he gets 100. I don't think he gets disappointed if it doesn't go that well. I think he's got great game plan

awareness. You know, his innings against the Westonies when there were two down for nothing. He just went out and thought, you know what, I better just dig in here. I better just play a bit of the old school stuff. He'd got 128, and I remember the stat came on the screen. 5% of that 128 had been hit in the air. So what does he do? He plays low-risk cricket shots.

What's, you know, the likes of Joe Root doing in this World Cup, just playing low-riff. Joe didn't hit the ball in the air. You know, these real world-class performers, Virac Coley, Steve Smith, Joe Root, Kane Williamson. What they do better than many other players is read the things. situation really well, play good orthodox strokes and give the opposition no chance because they don't hit the ball in the air and, you know, in Kane Williamson, you know, they've got to remember they got to the final four years ago. They're a team that do well in tournaments and they've

got a bowling attack, Lockhe Ferguson for me. I saw him at Old Trave who was the quickest I've seen in the tournament. Skiddy, great variations. They've got Trent Bolt who continuously gets wickets. He's one of the few bowlers in this work. It looks like he's going to get early wickets as well, which have been so hard to get. Zantler's a very clever left-down. spinner and Inde Granholm and Nisham, you know, real power. Now, decent with the ball, good variations, but very good at striking the ball. Guptel and Monroe haven't really fired yet at the top of the order. If they get going, they're certainly a team that can win this World Cup.

And also in the field, they're very good. They always have been very well-oiled. They know exactly where they're going to be, and you never feel that they're going to drop it, even though they dropped the cup of the other day. I was going to say, I might have caught the good scale chance. Yeah, but they're generally very, very solid under the high ball. and certainly they can win the World Cup.

And the other captain, given that England play them on Tuesday, what have you made of how Aaron Finch has led the Aussies? Very good. Very, very clever. I mean, again, my concern for England is that they might not get to the stage of having to win a close game because they're very good. They can blow teams away. And when they do, they've won the game within 25 hours of the second innings.

What Aaron Finch has done in the field, you know, the Australians have won two or three quite tight games. Pakistan at Tornson. The West Ind is in the first game when they managed to get that score that Ebony mentioned and then defend it. They're very, very good

with the ball in hand. Against Sri Lanka, they got off to a flyer at the over and then the lights of Mitchell Stark, Cummins, just grabbed it back and what they do with Mitchell Stark is, I send a Mitchell start, there you go, have two at the top,

two or three overs, try and get it swinging if it's not, he takes him off and he leaves it for when the ball's a bit older and he's just getting that little bit of tail into the left handers and taking it away for the right handers. He's got wicket taking up,

Now, if you can nullify Cummings and start, which is pretty difficult, I don't think the odds have got a great deal around that. So he's very dependent on Pat Cummings and Mitchell start to do the damage, but he's very smart in attacking. He knows when to squeeze. He's one of the few teams. If you look, most teams in the middle of the innings, they almost allow the fielders to go a little bit deeper and allow the singles.

What Australia do with Glenn Maxwell at backward point, Steve Smith, the extra cover, Aaron Fincher, they're coming tight. And they're trying to put pressure on the bats, and to hit it past them. So they are getting the dot ball percentage quite high and not many teams are doing that. They're going the old school, squeezing. And with Stark and Cummings,

he knows he's got bowlers that can get wicked. Which is what India decided to do against Afghanistan the other day to try and put the pressure on. But the thing with Finch is, you have an image of him as this, you know, all-powerful, opening bat, Ozzie, etc., etc. And when you meet him,

he's a really quiet, thoughtful individuals. I mean, he's kept a diary for years. that he uses to motivate himself or to keep ideas in. I just found him the complete opposite, actually, of what I was maybe expecting. Yeah, for an Aussie, he's nice, isn't he? That's what you're trying to say. That's exactly what I was trying to say.

Yeah, he is a nice chap and good cricket brain, clearly a good leader, and I think he's very, very important with the bat. I think, you know, David Warner's got lots and lots of runs, but Warner's played in a different way, very consistent, and not the firecracker that I guess we've seen over the years but Aaron Finch to me and Glenn Maxwell are the two in the Australian racks that can hit the sixes

and can get the strike rate at around 70, 80, 1-70-180, should I say. And I just think because of that power at the top, if you can get Finch early and you can get Coager and Warner together, particularly tomorrow I think England can start to squeeze a little bit. What you don't want is Finch. And Finch's record against England's very, very good. He's got some big hundreds. So I think you're going to get Finch early.

Michael mentioned Stark. He mentioned Cummins. Let's move on to fast bowling. We'll talk about how to bowl quickly, but also how to face it because you've been talking to players who could do both. Yeah, I mean, we had Robin in the Smith in the studio and fascinating.

I mean, he was... Such a reaction to that, actually, first and foremost. Thank you for all the emails and tweets that came in because there was an amazing reaction to... Yeah, it was a great interview. And, you know, if you asked me, who was the kind of standout batsman? from when I was growing up

who stood up to quick bowling, Robin Smith, Alan Lamb, Robin Smith. They're just Gucci, I guess, as well. But more Robin Smith, because he did get hit. He got hit a lot, but he just bounced back up. And, you know, he used to get a big striding. No idea how he could get that big striding against the quicks. And then he'd attack them.

You know, he'd try and play that square cut from nowhere. And then I guess the bowler, you talk of Malcolm Marshall, Patrick Patterson and Kurtley Ambrose. Kurtly Ambrose with those knees those big kind of boots running in, you could hear him running in

and the release of the ball from such a height I just happened to meet Kurtley Ambrose the other day at Old Trafford and I asked him, were you born a quick bowler? No, I don't think so. I don't think anyone were really born fast bowlers or anything for that matter. It's something

that you develop and the more you play the better you get at it because for me personally I never wanted to play cricket I wanted to play basketball or football I got into cricket reluctantly and everything just took off and the rest is history from a fast bowling perspective

is it something that you know you believe that your body's could I be a quick baller for instance could anybody if they like cricket in the ball could you make someone quick Well, there's no way you can really teach anyone to bowl fast. From my experience, you've either got it or you don't. Because when you look around, there's a lot of big, strong-looking guys.

Jason Holder, Western's captain, Carlos Bradway. When you look at these guys from a distance, you figure they should be bowling 90 miles an hour, and they can't. So in my humble opinion, I figure you either got it or you don't. So you can't teach anyone to be a fast how to bowl fast. You can teach them to swing the ball and seam the ball and all that stuff, different variations. But in terms of bowling fast, it's something that is just natural. And what's the key to bowling fast?

Is it the run-up? Is it the action? Is it the, you know, the kind of the body shape? What is the key? It's a combination of different things. Because bowling is purely about rhythm. You know, and I mean, if you've got good rhythm, good approach to the wicket. And you must have some, you got to be.

strong as well. Let's get into you. What's it like bowling quick? What's that feeling like? Well, it's hard work. First and foremost, you've got to be physically fit in order to sustain or go to distance because it takes a lot out of your body. I don't think anyone was born to really bowl fast. The kind of pressure you put your body through on a daily basis is very, very, very hard. So it's a tough job, but I enjoy bowling fast because I can make a good. I can a few guys hop around or if they upset me enough, you know, I could make life difficult for them. So it's something that I really enjoyed. And what is that feeling like at the end of your run-up and you know you've got rhythm, you know you've got a pitch that's got a bit of pace,

you know that you can unsettle the opposing team, you know you can psychologically unsettle the opposing dressing room. What's that feeling like? It's a nice feeling, you know, I mean, when you build a self a reputation, because it didn't start from From day one, you have to build a self of reputation, you know, where opposing busmen know that if you give me a small chance, you know, I could demoralize you, I could demolish you, I could really make life uncomfortable. So, you know, it's something that you got to get reputation first, because it doesn't matter how quick you're bowling. If it doesn't really have a good reputation, then you probably find busmen, you know, they're not worried about you. but once you got the reputation, then you're a bit worried. And how long did it take you to know that you did have that reputation?

It didn't take me long, a couple of years maybe, because when I joined the Westonies team first, you got guys like Malcolm Marshall, who was probably the best ball in the world at the time. You know, you got Courtney Walsh, who was coming along, Patrick Patterson. You know, these guys were really quick, you know. So when I came on the scene, it took me a couple of years to build a reputation. And once I got the reputation,

I figured after Malcolm Marshall left the scene You know That's when I thought You know I kind of took over the bowling department Even though Courtney once my great friend was there You know It tends to be a situation where

I don't think Courtney really got the recognition Until later on in his career Once Marshall left the scene He was like Kurt Leambos And Ian Bishop The kind of thing you know But Bishop You know unfortunately had some injuries and stuff

But once he established a reputation Because there are times when I'm bowling I'm not at my best, not boring us quick for whatever reason, maybe lack of rhythm or you're just not feeling it on that day, whatever. And because of the reputation, batsmen are still very cautious. So you tend to get away sometimes

when you got a good reputation. You must have had so many times when you could just see in the batsman's eyes. Is it so obvious early innings that a batsman, I wouldn't say physically scared of you, but you know that you've got the intimidation factor over them? Yes, I will never use the word scared, you know, but you're quite right.

there are times when you look in the baseman's eyes and you know that they're not so comfortable and as a bowler you sense only amount of time before you get him out because he's not comfortable he's not really like he doesn't want to be there on the other hand you got some baseman it doesn't matter what you throw at them they don't show an expression

you can't really figure them out even if they're not comfortable you can't see it they don't show it but yes there's some baseman who you can detect and you just work on that now tell me as a bowler a quick bowler When do you decide what delivery you're going to be bowling? As you're going back to your mark, you've got to decide,

it depends on what delivery was bowled previously. Then as you're walking back, you decide, okay, this is a delivery I'm going to bowl. If you wait until you get to the top of your mark, or once you're running in, you're too late. You've got to figure out and decide when you're going back to your mark. This is what I'm going to do.

And then you stick with it. Because you don't want to be running in thinking two, three, four different things. That's a waste. you've got to be sure in your mind what you want to do. Yes, there are times when, as they're about to deliver, a bus might do something different and you've got to split second to change what you want to do.

But generally, as you're going back to your mark, that's when you decide in your mind, this is what I'm going to do. Now, let's go back into the memory bank. Do you remember when you felt you bowled your quickest? Who was it against? That's a good question. my quickest I would say

England and Australia for some reason you know I think England in 1994 in Trinidad when we bowled in England of 46 I think I was bowling extremely quick on the flattish surface

because if you notice the dismissals most of the guys got bowled beaten for pace Robert Smith for instance you know if I go back you can see he was a wealth forward defensive, you know, looks real good. You know,

even see the picture, it looks immaculate. Nothing wrong with it. But when you look in the background, the stumps of the cart wheeling so he was a bit late. So I think that particular game, I was really bowling quick because most of the guys got beating for pace. And then, you know, I got one and two battles against Australia because

I always enjoy beating Australia. So I've always tend to be up a yard or two when I play against Australia. How important is the captain's role in a quick bowler's kind of mechanism? Well, I must say for the captains that have played with

or played under, you know, there was never much said to the bowlers like myself or Walshie or Malcolm Marshall and these guys because these guys know what we're capable of doing. The most they will ask you, you know, what kind of field, you know? So you get, oh, give me two steps

or give me three steps, whatever, and then that's about it. You know, unless something is going really wrong, then the captain will step in. But for the most part, they just ask what feel you want and then we just go and so that was it's very easy to have a captain like that

who believe in you and just give you what you want Last question what's the best thing about bowling quick Apart from taking wickets Well I like to see basketball Hopping and skipping and jumping around

in the crease and give me the kind of respect as well you know It's a nice feeling you know but generally taking wickets was what I was all about The building of a reputation is really interesting, isn't it? Because that means, you know, so much of the batsman bowler battle

becomes psychological. Yeah, and I do think it is psychological as a player. You know, when you arrive at a venue and you can see, Kirkley Ambrose, Courtney Walsh, you know you're in for an uncomfortable day. You know you're in for an awful week, potentially. And you do toss in turn when you're facing something like Murallithran. You know, you do. You have those sleepless nights of...

thinking, oh, he's going to embarrass me, you know, and will I pick the deucera? You know, those three or four fielders round the bat, will I just jab at one? And, you know, you toss in turn because you think, oh, I'm going to get a low score. It could be very tough the week that I'm going to face morally. When you're facing quick bowlers

and when you're facing a combination like Kurt Lehmberra's and Courtney Walsh, you know you could get hurt. And you know you could, as much, you know, get embarrassed because, you know, you might get that bouncing, you might not pick it up and you get hit. And one of the, the, the, the, the, kind of ego things as a batsman is not to get hit. You know, once you get hit on the head,

it's almost like you've dented your ego. You know, getting out to quick bowling, you know, there's ways that you can't get out to quick bowling. You know, if you get a good ball and you sneak it off and it gets caught at second slip, I guess that's a way that you could say, yeah, you can get away with that. You're not going to get bounced the next time.

But if you get out in front of your face with a ball or you've ducked into one and it kind of come off your bat handle, it's just balloon to short leg, or you kind of fend one off. in front of your face and it goes to 45 on the on side or it balloons in front of your face and goes to third or fourth slip,

you know that you're going to get an absolute pace in every time that you face quick bowling. It's not going to just be that pair, the rest of the world see that. So I think that as a batsman is probably the hardest thing mentally to deal with when you're facing it. As much as you have to face that ball from 22 yards

and you have to react on that, it's the psychological effect that it can have on you if you get out in a certain way, that it just transcends to the rest of the world. Imagine being bounced out and you know that you're going to get bounced forever. You just know that as soon as you go out there in test match cricket,

you're just going to receive bouncer after bouncer after bouncer until basically you can play it better. Great pick. Fortunately, I didn't have that. But in the back of my mind, that's what I used to think. I just don't want to get out to the bouncer. It's like when someone gets out to the hook shot. You just know that you're going to get bounced all the time.

So I don't always say to people, look, play the hook shot, but play it well. Because if you play it badly, a torrid few months because every single team's going to bounce you. The natural question is then to go, does it take a, do you think, you know, from your experience of facing bowlers, it takes a while for them to build up the reputation to then be fearsome. But then you look at Joffa Archer at the moment and Joffa Archer, not far off has arrived with a reputation and an aura around it.

Yeah, I mean, body language is important as well. I think when you, you know, you face something like Kurtly Ambrose, his body language was intimidating. You know, he had the big guys that would stare, he'd do that fake run. You know, he'd run up and bowl one before he'd bowled his ball just to kind of get his run up right and get his knees pumping and he'd follow all the way through to the batsman. He's not even bowled a ball yet, but he's just trying to intimidate you. He's just trying to make sure that you know that he's massive.

He's going to be bowling and he's got those knees pumping already before he's released the ball. And, you know, there's many over the years that have had, you know, great body language and could intimidate the opposing team. but as a combination Kurtly and Courtney Wazim and Wackar Glenn McGraw and

Brett Lee but Glenn McGraw and Shane won that was a different kind of combination you know in this series you've got so many in this World Cup

Joffar Archer Mark Wood Trent Bolt Lockie Ferguson Bumra and Shammie for India some real good bowling combinations and I do think if there's only one of them

if there's just one of them bowling 8590 you're all right but when they've got two and three you're in for a torrid day or four in the case of the wind is in the 80s maybe

and the 70s so let's talk a little bit more now about how to face it as Michael said Robin Smith former England Batsman was with us all last week he spoke about the problems that he's had since leaving the game and if you want to listen back then you still can

we also recorded a bit with him about what it's like to face fast bowling 19 of his 62 tests were against the West Indies this is what he said to myself and Phil and Michael on facing the quicks I know that I was very privileged to being brought up in South Africa

we were isolated from international cricket so the only cricket that the South Africans played was Curry Cup cricket you know and there's three or four sides and they were you know fantastic cricketers and there was probably only two or three

spin bowling there's Alan Corrie from Johannesburg in Dennis Hopps and the leg spinner. So most of my early years were all about facing fast bowling. You know, we had this net, as you mentioned earlier on, that they had knocked down the house next door and put this net, which was concrete and their nose out, which is like the astroturf now, but thinner. So the ball would really skid off.

And when you're exposed to that at 14, 15, 16, and Dad, continuing to turn up the machine to, you know, from 75 to 85 and so so from an early age you're actually starting to learn how to play quick bowling um rather than be brought up maybe in you know at um in yorkshire when the wickets aren't quite as bouncy and conduce them to fast bowling and um you know guys pitch ball up a little bit more and seamed around whereas in south africa they just used to bombers all the time and practicing probably an hour a day on quick bowling would certainly have helped me it would help help anyone with that practice and then that being exposed to quick bowling early on.

I do think that one of the reasons why I did play quick bowling reasonably well was I tried not to take my off the ball. I didn't have a grill. And I just believe that if you watch the ball, all the plays these days will all get, not necessarily get hit on the grill, but it all around the back of the head and around it's because they take the half the board and maybe with the introduction of the grill have they become a little more complacent do their practice the short pitch bowling I remembered just before Lord's test match I got Devon Malcolm to run

off 17 yards and bolt my head because I know that that's exactly what I was going to get the next day and couple of England batsmen and the other nests were just having a little half-olly throwdowns and I said mate you you're not going to get too many of those tomorrow. Just paint the picture of that. Devin Malcolm bowl 90 miles an hour. You're in the nets at Lodge. You've got the helmet and your Persebeck's sides,

so you've got nothing on your face. Nothing. You've got yellow little sponge on the purse. Correct. And you've got Devin Malcolmball, 17 yards bowling bounces. At my head as quick as he could. Yeah.

I mean, you've got to be a bit bonkers to do that, I mean, I didn't mind the quick that much, but I don't think I ever practiced in that way. I think Alex Stewart did that as well. didn't he before he just said listen

as you say I ain't get I can't get no balls to drive here but just that way Phil no

no I did not no I didn't but as you say you've got to be a little bit bonkers to do that but it's dangerous is that

is that testing your technique or is it testing your ticker ticker well I think both technique I mean you know we learn a lot

about playing the lovely cover drive and the square cut you mentioned earlier on on the back foot drive and sweep and everything but if you can't face

if you can't practice ducking getting out of the way of a short ball you're not going to be able to be there long enough anyway and if you get a reputation of not playing short bridge bowling particularly well as you well know you're going to get bombed all your career and that's the worst thing

that anybody wants tough as you know all right no exactly hold a little bit I'll tell you a story about that Mike as you say we was playing remember the game I bowed the West Indies out at the Oval and how much did you know

but how much did you get judge I can't but I think you got seven foot didn't you? No yeah but you got 120 on I think I was sitting there and it's come for the man of the match and I think you know what I mean I was going well I've got a chance of this

you know what I mean I've bowed them out like that and they've then given it to you right and I've gone oh bloody hell that was a bit unfair like that but then but then we sat down in the dressing room and I was sitting there like that having me fag or whatever like that

and you've taken your shirt up and you were black and blue your legs were black and blue and I went well I think he deserved it. I'd run up off about two or three bases and just lollipopped a few in the air. You were covered in bruises. But you do say that... So it's ticker, mate. It's ticker.

It is, absolutely. I agree. Obviously, you need a technique as well, which you had. And you're staring at the balls at number one principle, I would say, to any player. Yeah. But you like to get hit early, didn't you? You almost like to take a blow to get yourself going. Yeah, but it's quite nice to feel a little bit of pain, isn't it? No. Yes, it is tough. It's not. No, but that, I remember that game.

I think, well, I know Malcolm Marshall gave me that 100 because I was on 98, and he came up to me. He said, my, he said, legs dump half volley. Yeah. And I said, are you sure, Maco? He said, yeah, legs done half volley. So then he got midwicked, and he pulled midwicked over to second gully. So there's only fine leg in midon.

Next ball, legs dump half volley for two runs, 100. and Vivor passed me and he said man well played you deserve those two freebies that's that right so wait so you say to young players you know starting the game you obviously stare at the ball you know you've got to have a ticker

and you've got to practice hard I think you've definitely got to practice the short ball as much as anything because you know these days you're going to get turnover or whatever You know, you can't keep practising the forward defence. Well, all shots are important. If you don't have a decent defence,

then you're not going to be batting out there long enough anyway. But if you can't play the short bridge bowling, and it's not pleasant to practice shortbridge bowling. You can get these slas balls. You can get the softer balls for the bowling machine, which will sting, won't hurt, won't break any bones. But just practice 25 a day at your head at 90 miles an hour. You've got to.

Jappas, are you in for that? I don't have quite got the ability to do that really Again, the standout for me When you were facing quick bowling You could duck and weave You could sway But also when the ball was pitched up You got this striding

You could get that left foot back towards the ball Midwiki mid-witted I'd hang back and kind of play from the crease And wait for that kind of one off the hip Yeah, down the other end But you had this But you had to try and remind yourself To look to get forward

Because is that what you're doing Saying to yourself look to get forward Every ball, because you know what they do. The Westies, they push you back, they push you back, and then they fire one up. You get caught in the crease, LBW, bold, caught behind. Plus the danger ball. Yeah, and I always look, every ball, always look to get forward,

look to get forward. And I had this imaginary line in the middle of the wicket. As soon as the ball pitched short or back of that imaginary line, I just hit the deck as quickly as I could. Now, Gucci was a great play of quick bowling. Why didn't you tell me that, Judge? You can see the line. And Gucci used to ride the ball, didn't he?

I mean, so anything up around his chest he had played. Now, I just felt that why defend a ball around your chest? You know, up here, just get down and hit the deck. Because if it rises, you know, another six inches, you know, you're going to get a glove or you're going to get caught a short leg, why play anything around your nipple area, you know, your chest area? So if you can work out on a wicket that's consistent in its bounds, if you can work out that imaginary line

and it hits that larn just hit the deck and maybe you've seen quite a few pictures of you know ball just going over the stumps and I've got down a knee ball your picture on the front cover that's why the picture on the front cover

of the books about but the quote on chapter 9 on pace like fire it is often said that anyone who says they enjoy facing fast bowling proper fast bowling is a liar I can say hand on heart the same heart that's been bruised by many a short ball down the year

that I absolutely loved it. I'm an adrenaline junkie. Nothing has ever given me a hit as good as that. And I look at that picture of you, as Michael has just said, on the front of the book, the judge. And that, when you, I see that, and it just makes me smile

and it takes me back to watching you as a kid and a teenager. When you look at that, what do you think? Oh, just exonerated. Do you wonder how you did it? Look at it, how exciting is that? Off your feet, it's gone past your nose. 95 miles an hour

could quite easily have seriously hurt you and it's just exhilarating Who was bowling? Do you know? I don't know Which of the about 10 that you used to duck and weave a game Patto?

Yeah Just a patto But just on the other back of the book Somebody wrote Well there's some lovely comments But Angus Fraser Wrote something in the back of the book Yeah there have been many players

Who suggested they would rather face 90 mile an hour throat balls Than genuine leg breaks but Smith is the only one I truly believe. The secret then to bowling fast is rhythm. The secret to facing it is to keep your eyes on the ball, which is easier said than done. Yeah, keep your eyes on the ball and practice.

I think, again, practicing facing spin, it's quite comfortable. You can't get hurt. You might get embarrassed, you might get bamboozled, you can't get hurt. Facing quick bowling is about that intimidation that the bowler brings and also that ticker that it tests you. You know, it's testing your mentality. It's testing your courage. You know, there's so much courage required when you're facing the quick

because you know in the back of your mind, if you switch off for that split second or you misjudged length for that split second, potentially you could be in deep trouble. And I think the only way to overcome that is practice. The only way to get better at facing any kind of bowl is by practicing the deliveries that you're potentially going to face. But did you, did you,

were you always used to it? Because if you grow up playing cricket from whatever time you first started playing games 8, 9, 10 and you're batting, then as you go through the levels, the bowlers go through the level. So are you kind of used to it from an early age, do you think? Yeah, and I think that's why it's important that, you know, there's many coaches that won't push kids too soon because of the quick bowling. But if a young batsman wants to be a player, I think they've got to be pushed in, you know, to face quick bowling early so they get used to it so it's so that's a club game at 13 14 whatever it might be lob them in you know what's the worst thing that's going to happen they might

get hurt they might get out you know what that's the game and I think it's important that you know all young players that are trying to be cricketers or trying to be become better you know you've got to get used to facing quick bowling that that's the game of cricket and what what is always more difficult you know the only time I got scared is when the pitch wasn't right if I was on a pitch that I could trust the bounce old traffic trust the You could throw any pace at Old Traff, I'd fancy it. You know, there was times where you play overseas or on a day four wicket that just started to crack a bit

and the ball would be pounded in about midway and you think, is that going to get up? Is it going to keep low? An uneven bounce is the worst thing that you can have as a batsman when you're facing the quicks. If it's true bounce, you know, and you're a top order player, you should be able to cope with that

because you should have done all the work over the years of facing quick bowling. You'd have had the dog throw these days with the ball flinging down the bowler machines bowlers bowling off 18 yards to try and get used to that extra bit of pace but when it's uneven

there was one time in Perth one evening about 2002 and we had to go out and back for about 10 overs and Brett Lee took the new ball with the doctor the wind right behind him and there was a big crack on and around just outside off stump and I always remember Triscothic got out early

and Richard Dawson came out as night watchman with his glasses on steaming up And I was 22 yards away And I looked and I went This isn't right This isn't fair You've got a night watch Brett Lee's ball in 95 miles an hour

Adam Gilchris Was almost positioned himself On that bloody horse track He was that far back Short leg Justin Langa About four or five slips There was no one in front of square And he peppered him

And then I got down there And that was as quick as I ever face And it was the only time that I thought This isn't right This isn't fair You know I've got a big crack to look at He's got the breeze And he's charging

and his team were absolutely hammering us. And it was that game that Alex Tudor got hit. He got hit hard in the eye. And that was really the only time. Show you back to our one time in Lahore where you just seemed to find this extra bit of pace on a pitch again, which was a little bit low in bounds. And I always found that on a pitch with low bounce

was the hardest time to face a fast bowler because you couldn't trust the bounce. And what I wanted, Robin Smith mentions it, if you want to see shortball and you just want to go down and let it fly over your head. Or if you're going to play the attacking shots, You know that it's short, you can get the pull shot out, you can get the cut shot.

When it's uneven in bounds, that doesn't. Are you watching the ball all the way in? Yeah, you've got to just stare. Just stare. And I used to say, stay still. Stay still and stare. Just stay still, like the bowler, and just stare. Stare as much as you can and react and trust your eyes.

And again, there was times when I'd walk out to bat against quick bowling and I've not got any runs, and it gets you going, it gets your beans going, it gets your feet going, because there's no way that you can just bat there's no way you can just go oh it's just another game you know back when someone's running in

and trying to hurt you if you're not on it you're gone for one you'll be walking back quickly and for two you're going to get seriously hurt so I used to enjoy facing quick bowling for that reason that there was no way I couldn't be switched on if I walked out sometimes in a county game and it was 78 miles an hour

dibbly dobbly I'd hate it because I couldn't get my beans going I was like I needed a battle I needed something to just get myself going and quick bowling always did that there was never ever whether it was under 15 cricket under 19 second 11 for Yorkshire

playing for England if I knew there was a quick bowl that I got going because of the fact if I didn't get going I could get hurt And did you have that imaginary line that Smith talked about that you knew if it came I was different

No I wanted to play I was he mentioned Graham I was similar tall I would always say to himself right stand up and play stand up and play I'm a tall batsman try and watch the ball and if it got a bit

steep on me and then I'd drop the hands or sway. Look, now and again I'd see it early and duck down or I'd sway out of the way. That was just an instinct.

But for the majority of the time that I played, whether it was facing Wazim Akram from over the wicket, I'd say just stand up and play. And I got pelted on the finger. On the arm, I'd just get hit a lot of the time.

But I felt because I was a tall batsman, it gave me better opportunity. And it also was me saying to myself, I'm going to watch the ball all the way. If I felt that I was thinking of ducking or sway, and there was a chance that I might just take my eyes off the ball. So it's important that you stare at it.

Whether you're going to be swaying out the way of ducking, Robin Smith said, if you see the front cover of his book, when he's swaying out the way of that back, he's still looking at the ball. Even though he's probably a metre in the air with his feet, he's still looking at the ball and it's going past his right earlobe.

And that's a great lesson to any player that if you're going to face quick bowling, practice it, but make sure you stare at the ball. If a lot of it is down to coordination and that practice of, you know, eyes and what you're watching, would you have not battered at the elite level for some time? If I took you down to Old Trafford now and Mitchell start bold at you, would you have problems? I would have thought so. Yeah, no, no, no.

But I... Yeah. How much would you back yourself, trust yourself? How much would it be actually dangerous? Oh, it'd be dangerous to start with. Yeah. I would think, I mean, my eyes are nearly 45, so my eyes are going to be nowhere near what they were.

But it's that repetition and practice as well about the court. I reckon you could get yourself back into it to bat against it. Right. Because that's what we've done. We've been able to do that. And it'd take a bit of practice, and it'd take a bit of a lot of courage, actually, to go back and try and do it.

But I reckon, yeah, I reckon if you've done it before, I'm pretty sure you could do. And that's the one thing that I used to always take great strength from when I was a player that if I came up against Quicks, you know, I had a diary and I used to write down

all my thoughts and methods against all the different bowlers and a lot of my success was against Quick Bowling. You know, I just, because I didn't have the power of trying to whack it, I needed pace on the ball

because I could deflect it. You know, you could play a good forward defense, it'd run off the face. You've got a third man for a four. I mean, you're facing someone like Demi Mascarane players going nowhere you're never getting any runs

whereas I've quick bowling I remember in 05 at Old Trafford I went out to bat I was playing terribly and before I knew it I'd not played a shot I was on 25 I think I'd got 16 down to third man just playing defensive shot the pace of the ball running off the blade down to third man before you know it

you've got a few boundaries and your innings is off and running so again as a positive when you're facing quick bowling that's what I'd say to kids see the gaps there's plenty of them you know don't see fielders see the gaps you'll go out to back there'll be three slips in a gully

and a short leg there'll be a mid-off probably a bit wider cover point of behind square so from mid-off which will be wide to backward point there's a massive gap

on the on side there might be a mid on maybe not massive gap square leg won't be out particularly when you first go out into your in is massive gap third man nothing

massive gap so that's my message to all youngsters that are facing just see the gaps see the gaps use the pace and realise that there's Doug Padgett

my old coach at yours should say the quicker it comes, the quicker it goes off your bat. So if you can get your bat on it, it's pretty much every chance that it's going to go to the boundary of a four. So try and see, and again, that's me in my positive state. When I was

low in confidence and not playing so well, guarantee you take your guard and you see four slips, you see every single fielder. So if you can, just try and make sure that you see the gaps, use the pace, and realize that the best place sometimes to face a quick bowler from is the other end.

And with that gaps, knock and run, get down the other end. and if I was going to take you to Old Trafford and we were going to bring back a bowler from the area you played you didn't want to face the worst one possible for you, quick I reckon I mean Old Trafford pitch didn't seem or swing that much it was just quick

I would reckon Shoy Bactar at his best charging in I mean that that run up of Shoy Abttaire was intimidating in itself and he had that ability to subplex his his right elbow and it used to go behind himself and you lost sight of the ball

they are the worst bowlers to face like Courtney was because of his arms and legs and he'd kind of you'd be looking where's the ball gone Brett Lee's perfect because Brett Lee used to show you all the ball and you saw the ball all the way through his run-up and from the release of the hand

whereas show him back toar Dale Stain Dale Stain you lost the ball just a little bit in his action but Acta once you lost it behind his right elbow you were like oh no oh no

and he used to be able to reverse it back into the pads his bouncer was well silly pace and he had this off-cutting slower ball that did me in Lahore on 60 or 70 played great and he bowled it

I got out to the off-cutter show back to our 95-mile I got out to his probably 45-mile-an-hour off-cutter, caught and bold there you go and England to bounce back tomorrow yeah I'll back them all the time

because they've got everything that you'd want in a one-day team I'd prefer them to bat first I think batting first is the way to go. I think it's been proven in this year's World Cup. And just because they have to win tomorrow, I think getting runs on the board, putting Australia under pressure.

Australia, have been very good defending, getting runs and defending their scores. You know, I think it's a nervy day. It really is. And I think we'll know so much more about the England team tomorrow night because of the loss of Sri Lanka, because of the loss of Pakistan. And they know in their minds that they have to win tomorrow.

tomorrow. I'm afraid next week's show is going to be a bit gloomy. Sell it. Tough as and Vaughn's Cricket Show.