Test Match Special - View from the Boundary - Geoff Norcott

Episode Date: May 24, 2025

Comedian & writer Geoff Norcott joins Jonathan Agnew is the TMS commentary box at Trent Bridge.He tells Aggers about his love for cricket starting when revising for exams in 1993, coaching his son's team, and being 6 not-out after batting for two hours.

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you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit Wise.com. T's and Cs apply. from BBC Radio 5 Live. Time for our first view from the boundary of the summer. Now, my guest is a comedian, a broadcaster. You've seen him on programmes like Mock the Week, live at Apollo, would I like to use, a panelist on question time on radio,

a regular on the news quiz, alongside Andy Zaltzman, of course, he's got his own series, got a weekly podcast called what most people think. Huge cricket fan, and I've told coaches his son's under-9's team. Personal batting highlight, two hour, six not out.

Sounds riveting. Once interviewed Shane Warn, it's Jeff Norcott, and it's lovely to see you here. It is so lovely to be here. No, no, thanks for having me on. I've got to say, I am ridiculously excited. I'm so glad that they brought me up here at half past just to acclimatized because I was sort of like a cross-between a 10-year-old boy,

and I don't know if anybody who's listening to been to the Sistine Chapel, the hushed feeling when you walk in. I'm glad I got most of that out of my sister's. But, you know, listen, I've done live at the Apollo twice, but the sort of the good nervous energy of how I feel now is up with anything. Well, that's lovely. And you can tell, I mean, just looking at you, it's kind of bursting, I just standing there.

Well, I mean, it's been an interesting week because, in my view, I got the call up earlier this week. Like, you know, when England players get the call up, I got the call up from this week. So someone dropped out, did they, I did it? No. I did wonder. No.

I did wonder. But I got the call up, and from then on, I was nervous. And then, of course, the match was progressing quite quickly yesterday. I just presumed that Stokes was won at bat again. I was almost complacent about it. And then there was a couple of wickets yesterday. And then I sort of saw, it's not going to happen. And then standing there just now, waiting for the lunch break,

I was sort of doing stretches. I thought it's not really appropriate, is it? Loosting up. Yeah, you know what they do, what they do, touch their toes and all that sort of stuff. So I am, I want to say to people listening that, you know, as into the test match, the TMS institution as I am, it's every bit as cool as they think it would be.

You think so? Absolutely, absolutely. It's been a long time since I've been referred to as cool, I can tell you. Well, we had a couple of chats before we went on air, which were, you know, were on the cool side, I would say. But, yeah, no, it's incredible. And, you know, with cricket as well, for me, it's something that I came to completely myself. There was no history. My dad, I think his main hobby was sort of checking out mortgage deals, if that is a hobby.

He was a trade union man, but he loved money. And my granddad was a brilliant ballroom dancer. But that was it. And then just one sort of summer, I think it's 19903. I was trying to do anything other than revised. In England, we're getting tonked by Australia. Yeah, there's an ashes year, isn't it, 93? That's the Shane Warnier.

That's the ball of the century and all that. Yeah, I remember watching that on a tiny black and white portable. And I just thought, at the time, I'm a big Wimbledon football club, now AFC, Wimbledon fan. But I just, the tribalism of it used to irritate me sometimes. I thought, I just want to enjoy this unequivocally. And I remember particularly, John Embry had scored a 50, I think, in a losing course. right and John has interviewed him afterwards and he didn't talk about the defeat he's just like Sparkling 50 and I thought yeah it was a Sparkling 50 and and

weirdly in football consolation goals are never remembered but you know a great 50 or a great catch or a hundred in a losing cause can stand the test of time yeah yeah it's interesting to come to a sport with no no background he didn't play at school no I mean weird growing up in London I mean this is one of my concerns about cricket is I didn't I picked up a cricket about once before the age of 14 and I went to school in Wandsworth in the late 80s, early 90s and people who grew up in that area

then will remember Ilya, the Inner London Educational Authority. It was very progressive and trendy. I remember we had one lesson that was called World Studies quite just generalised just, you know, just paint going in the sandpit, do what you want to do and but I didn't play any cricket

at this school. I'd played something called UniHock which is a sport that I've never seen since. I've never seen UniHoc. never had really enough people to get in touch and tell me what i've imagined it it's probably an olympic sport by now it pretty well if they do breakdancing exactly no no no no climbing no offense to raygon but but yeah and then i went to rutley school in south london which was comprehensive which used to be a grammar school john major used to he did go there didn't he yes he's done this show as well yes you have and

and he and and i just played cricket then they just focused on the sort of football cricket and rugby. And I don't know, maybe that was a small C sort of conservative in me. I thought, yeah, that's what I want to do. Look, I think arts and dance and ribbons and movements are wonderful, but principally, I'd like to focus on those three sports if I can. And yeah, fell in love with the sport around about the age of 14. And then, I mean, playing wise. I mean, this, sort of this note here, but I didn't write this. This can't be right, can it? Two hour six not out. I mean, that's a misprint, isn't it? No, two hours. I would say it was longer. I'd say it's longer. And And the thing was, it was...

How? How? Well, slowly. It evolves slowly. So eventually I was given out at Square Leg. So it was for my school, Rutlish. We were on tour. And I was given out by Square Leg Umpire, who was my music teacher, who punched the air after he gave me out. Yeah, God, I'm surprised. I finally took a step down the pitch, missed it and got stumped. And he punched the air and he just said, finally. He was delighted.

Well, I'm surprised I didn't call a sniper in after about an hour. Well, the other lad at the other end, Michael, was batten beautifully. And I just thought, I like the idea of heroically holding up and in, particularly as I can't hit anything in front of square. I just, I don't know what it is about my body. I just can't hit anything forward. I can late cut a little bit. I was an okay sort of off spinner, but it's great watching my son,

who's got a natural sort of, he's got cricket in his spirit. You know what I mean by that? Yeah, I do, absolutely. He's a very fair-minded lad, and I know you did your series about the spirit of cricket. I'm with you, I believe it is a thing, and he's got that in his soul. And it's great watching him. He took a wicket the very first ball of the season. Now, that's not bad.

Well, he wanted to know. He wanted to know what kind of duck that was because there's a diamond duck, there's a golden. Yes. So somebody to be dismissed with the first ball of the season? Or him to take a wicket, you mean? Yes, to take a wicket, yes. Well, he sort of cramped him up for a room.

Yeah. But he invented platinum duck, which I think he's got a great ability of words. I don't think we have a platinum duck, do we? there's such thing as a platinum gut listeners will listeners will let us know which on's a platinum then because obviously the golden there's the silver but first ball of the season of the season not bad yeah but I should give a shout to little little Paxton I mean I don't fully coach them by I sort of chip in and the incredible thing is is umpiring while your son's bowling obviously amazing yeah it's so the thing is you've got to appear impartial but he took a court and bold last year and I might have celebrated and I don't think that's okay not to not to isn't it so you but you can't let you opposition there's a lovely moment in ever decreasing circles when Richard Breyer, as a character, is reffing a football match and there's a row and a chap comes running on, he's a linesman

and says, that was a perfect good goal, my son scored there, oops, you know, he'd been ruled offside. You know, you've got to be careful haven't you? Well, you do a bit, he also, when he was batting here, a beautiful sort of square leg glance, and I was at square leg and I signalled, enthusiastically signalled the fore, it wasn't really my call really, I was at

square leg, we'll leave that for the umpire at the other end, but I was sort of like Calypso on the back foot. Yeah, brilliant. Hands going everywhere. So I'm just so glad. I was so important to me for him to at least find out if he liked it to the point where I actually backed off. Yes.

Very important. It is. A lot of parenting is kind of indoctrination. Can be. Like he likes Star Wars curry and cricket. It's not a coincidence. But I'm so glad that he genuinely does seem to like it. I think there's something good about cricket.

There's something fundamentally good about cricket. You do see kids being pushed, don't you? I think more in football maybe than cricket. Just to, you know, a platinum duck refers to a bat to being dismissed for a duck off facing the first ball of an innings. Okay. But the first ball of a season?

The first ball of a season. I mean, that's pretty disappointing, it's been all winter thinking about your first game. Yeah, I now feel bad for the guy there. Well, so do I. He said his bat out, he's been sanding it down. He'll have linnocene oiled it. I mean, it's a plastic bat, but let's go with it.

well he'd have got it ready he'd have wiped it off absolutely and it wasn't a bad look it wasn't a bad shot it was just a good ball my son I tried to teach him to think about the dustbin lid you know that just just vaguely hit an area and and he said handkerchief's even better I mean dustbin lid gives it there's a bit of leeway there try and try and get it down to a handkerchief yeah then it's then a sort of bathroom dustbin with a smaller thing and then absolutely then a sort of uh I don't know if you if you're one of the great test bowlers it maybe a penny perhaps that'll be very good Hank Hanky will be good for a youngster, perhaps not quite yet. We'll move on to Hanky. Yeah, get on to a hanky. So you know all the laws then, do you? I mean, if you're unpowering this.

Yeah, that's another question. I, yes, it's not like, it's a thing, I don't want to just, like, trash other sports. Rugby, for me, even the biggest fans of it, don't seem to fully know why decisions are given. I need the airpiece of rugby. I need to know what's going on. I need to be explained what's going on.

I need at least three lads that went to private school next to me to have a sense of what's going on. in the game but cricket yeah I would say that mostly yeah mostly mostly when the

arts the umpire happens I'm broadly in the right area which is great fun by the way is that you'd be perfect for that now wouldn't you in this this role of umpiring

I mean you'd be taking all those questions off I know yeah and if the question were if your son bowers and it's loosely in the area of the stumps is it out yes

it is 100 it's out twice I also was really pleased as well like if we just talk about the cricket geekery is Adam I won it, I hopefully won his respect quite quickly

because the LBW that was overturned with Bashir, I quickly said that that's missing because Bashir's torn and it was going to miss the leg stumps. So that, I mean, of all the things I've done in comedy, that is probably one of my proudest moments. Yeah, yeah. Actually, umpiringo is difficult, isn't it? I mean, it is difficult.

I mean, it's easy when we're sitting up here. I've occasionally unpowered. It all happens very fast and there's lots of noises going on. I mean, they're all joking. side that's possible with a comedian but they've got a tough job haven't they i mean you with your nine 10 year olds or whatever yeah at the speed of the ball these fellas out there that is that's tough job i think the hardest one for me is always how far batters are down the pitch that is such a hard thing to calibrate in your mind you know once there's an impact

you can judge very variously where it bounced yeah but yeah distance down the pitch and under nines they don't do lb w's either not at all yeah so i don't know exactly what i'm doing really it's uh i'm mainly counting the ball And even that I struggle with. I always have to get an update from the scorers. They don't do a bit of what to avoid argument, I suppose, is it? Argument as well. And I suppose they're just trying to get people into it.

So, like, you know, at that age, when they're out, they're sort of not out, they just take five runs off to score, but they want to give people time in the middle. And, you know, I have got that old-fashioned thing of, like, no, there's got to be consequences, there's got to be context. But the games wouldn't mean much if people didn't get to spend time out, you know, in the middle. And I think the cricket just get used to that scrutiny, because, When you're in them, just simply the process of walking to the wicket is an anxiety-inducing experience. Isn't it just?

That's what I love about cricket and why I think it's so important that kids play it. It's that you are out there by yourself. You've got your mate the other end. It is the two of you against those 11. You really, you might not like that person very much, or you are out there together, and it's you against them. And you respect that person. But you also respect the opposition, too, who should respect you for coming out there and playing in that situation. I just think it's the best possible sport for character.

I think it's the best possible sport. I really do believe if there's just one conviction I have in life, is that cricket, there's something good about cricket. And even when it comes down to playing at club level, there's things that happen in cricket that don't happen in other sports. Like if you play Saturday or Sunday football, which I did, and I just try avoid trashing football, which I often seem to end up doing. I am going to the playoff final, by the way, on Monday of AFC Wimbledon.

So I'll suspend everything I'm saying for that 90 or 120 minutes. But there is, you know, you'll play football with people who are roughly 18 to 40, roughly. But you do club cricket, you could be anything from even 13, if there's a good cricket out, up to 70. And there's cross-generational sharing of information. There's a cultural life to cricket that doesn't exist in other sports. And there are moral lessons. And a great thing about cricket, as we're discussing with Adam, is just duration. You know, the great show that you guys did yesterday lunchtime, you know, with Henry Longer and NASA.

I don't know if you would go to somebody's dressing room if you hadn't spent that much time in their company if you just a couple of times a season played them for 90 minutes would you have created that bond or that understanding where you could go and represent something so profound as a political process? So football's great for that sugar rush, that tribalism, that outbursts.

But just cricket, there's something deeper about it. And I'm a great, I believe in test cricket so strongly. I love it. Yes. I was going to ask you about your son and that actually he's what nine did he say I think his name

Seb So Seb what would Seb say about the ideal game of cricket That he wants to watch or to play I mean is he in the franchisee Bright Colours 100 blast or whatever Or is he getting your love of test cricket

I almost haven't told him what test cricket is Because I feel like if I explained it It would do more harm than good for it Look, Sam, it was only five days. Five days, it could still be a draw. A really exciting draw at the end of it. Yeah, yeah. And then some days there's this 40-minute bit that's amazing,

and that is the best bit about it. I mean, you know, interestingly, he's interest in it and his understanding really floured from playing one of the games online because there were simple things that he started to understand. Like if the ball goes there, you'll probably play a shot on the offside. Oh, okay. A computer game?

Yeah, it was a computer game. You know, where you field it, where the good areas are to bowl. And that actually genuinely triggered the interest. So I don't know if that's going to work with other games like Minecraft. He's going to start farming chickens or something. He might get to do anything. But yeah, I think that it started from there with him.

And with Test cricket, I really believe there's something about this that actually does fit within the modern age. I think there's a real appetite for long-form narrative. It's either really long or really short, right? Yes. So it's sort of TikTok or something like and or series two, which I've just watched. Right. It's actually the things that fall in the middle of that I think are the most vulnerable. think are the most vulnerable.

So like ODIs, you know, or a series that's only... 50 over time, yeah. Yeah, or a TV series that's only six episodes long. I don't want that. I want a really long film or I want something that's got 40 episodes. Binge it. Binge it. And binge Test cricket.

And I also believe that they should... Because the narrative of Test cricket is so powerful. I think they should sell that more. The stories, the heroism, the myths, you know. Atherton batting for, what is it, 17 days in... Johannesburg. In Johannesburg. Like, you know, Monty and Jimmy, you know, battening.

I mean, a lot of it is just bad out for a draw, I'm realising. But that's where the draw could be exciting, though, can't it? I mean, people say, oh, cricket's dogs. Yeah. You know, it could end into a draw. One of the best ones I saw was in Antigua, where the first match was called off because the outfield was all hopeless and sandy.

So they moved it. They moved it back to the dear old recreation ground in St. John's. If people have been there, they know exactly what I mean. Music and Calypso and great fun. Now a football ground, but they put this test. match on there right in the middle of St John's in Antigua and at the end of the game the last West Indian pair were there together fighting off England the sun going down ground filling up

with West Indian supporters you know you can see them dancing and shouting and it was an incredible atmosphere and they walked off as a match drawn you know you can do it you can do it's something honest about that yeah life's like that life's like that sometimes you will be involved in an endeavour for a long time and you won't get a result and you you might deserve it on paper. All the metrics might suggest that you were you were better or you deserved a job that you didn't get whereas I think you know when you get down to a football match like this playoff final on Monday that AFC Wimbledon have got that could go down to penalties and I think that you know I get it penalties are excited but there is something

dishonest about that life's not like that sometimes it's all sudden death type thing yeah sudden death like you you end up I just think it's an unsatisfactory conclusion in many ways so I would love test cricket to really drive home the narrative because you know like the interest in it you look at the digital content and I think that's a very real phenomenon especially in the last couple of years probably maybe starting with the

2023 ashes you start to really see clips going super viral moments stories you know broadly changing the bales so it's either like 30 seconds long or it's five days long but I'd love to see the game sort of start telling the stories of test cricket

more skillfully to youngsters yeah that's interesting because do you think they are necessarily there is shorter concentration now I mean, I have this theory that actually is us somehow telling the kids that they've got a shorter attention span these days. But in fact, they happen at all. I mean, a lot of our audience of students who are doing exams with a radio on in the background, they're revising and so on. We've got to be careful, I think, without sort of trying to ram home, well, it's got to be shorter, it's got to be quicker, it's got to be bang, bang, bang, man, it's got to be 20 overs, it's got to be 100 balls, it's going to be 50 balls next, and it's going to be, you know, two overs. It's like this drive to make everything quicker and shorter.

In fact, I don't think the kids, I think a bit disrespectful. I absolutely agree. The evidence is there. Films have got longer. There must be a reason for that. And also these huge, you know, binging is a part of our culture. And that can exist with cricket. And I also think like the technological innovations, like ear pods.

A lot of people. I mean, I tend to consume cricket via this show. And yesterday was just an example of something you wouldn't get from another sport. like I had to get up, walk the dogs, did a bit of writing for a sitcom idea, then went for a run and I was listening to, was it Bennett? You know, batting beautifully. Yeah, Brian Bennett. Then I was making my lunch, and there was Henry Longer and Nasser and you.

You know, with Alison Mitchell, Mitchell doing that brilliant half hour. Yeah, it was good, wasn't it? It was incredible. And then after lunch, you know, I went out to lie down and listen to this guy, get 100. You know, the fastest 100 of Zimbabwe and Hold ever. And again, I just don't think other sports provided that. So I think it's for test cricket to lean in. to what do we have that other sports don't have you know rather this constant

obsessing about where doesn't it fit in where does it fit in I think the evidence is there that it fits in beautifully to a lot of emerging trends players for you who are your who are the players who you'd love to you love to watch play I think the great thing about being an England fan is those swashbuckling all rounders you know we do seem to be very lucky from both them through to Flint off through to Stokes we we just throw up one every every generation seemingly and like glensorial figures too aren't they they're big figures big characters yeah and leaders of men as well it's interesting with flintov so i do i write for shows as well as sort of appearing on them

and i've written for a league of their own for many years now i hope you right okay and cricket the fame of like the celebrity of cricket is is the thing that i get very nervous around as you would have seen earlier he's sort of going hello mr tofnall but but when i met uh freddie and i i was a wreck and i was nerding out and trying to impress by lesser known stats from the 2004 series. You don't need that with Freddy. He didn't need that at all. But then the next time I saw him, when he remembered my name,

and he called me Jeff, you're right, Jeff. And I was 10 feet tall. I don't think, to be honest, like I worked on that show while he was still on it for about five years. Never really got beyond that. You know, I think most people would chill out over time. No, not me. No, no, no.

Every day. How did you interview Shane Warren then? How did that come about? Well, that was quite a one. That was 2010. was doing a bit of sponsored content for gambling website and warning came on and again I was so desperate to impress him with cricket and knowledge. Was it face to face? He was he was very cool guy proper like movie star type yeah yeah movie star fame it was emma real charisma there's a presence

about Shane you almost knew he's in the room before he was and that's a hard thing to put a finger on but but I made a point to him so it was in the back end of Ponting's career and I said I said is it the case that, you know, Ponting's not quite a player he was, but if he gets to 50s, as good as he ever was. And he said, that's a really good point, Jeff. And I was like, oh my God, I'm just going to retire. Shane Warren. I made a good point. Tricketing fight to Shane Warren.

He's probably just being polite as sponsor. At the end of the day. But yeah, that was a real career highlight. And that's the thing about doing something like this show today or, you know, when I went and I have a got news for you, I think the things that were a big deal when you were young, if you encounter them in older life, they were probably

overwhelm you. Whereas some shows you go on that are an incredible thing. I went on would I lie to you? Incredible. Those three guys just unbelievably talented. But it wasn't around when I was a teenager whereas the test match special theme tune was. Whereas I've got news for you theme tune was. So so those things have the power to overwhelm. It's interesting because you say when cricket came fairly late too. I'm accommodated too, didn't you? You're a teacher I think. Yeah, relative. I mean now people start with ridiculously young ages to creating content on TikTok from about the age of four. But yeah, I was

I mean, when I met my wife, when I proposed to my wife, after six months, by the way. Oh, that's quite quick. Yeah, I think that's what the in-laws for us. Yeah, I sure they did. Do you know what they did? They very smartly said, let's look at, so I proposed in October 22, and they said, well, let's look at wedding venues for 2004. I was like, well, that seems far away. And they said, no, I think it's a good idea.

And they were absolutely right, because that was a sensible thing to do. And also, I think, you know, just to get the venue you want, that's the kind of thing you need to do. And at that point, I was a teacher. No, no, I was in advertising. then I said I'm re-training to be a teacher and they were like well you know still a solid career and then a couple of years later I was like I'm going to be a comedian oh I might as well have said

well in terms of job stability I might as well have gone I'm going to play ultimate frisbee for a living and I mean I carried on sort of doing it's a big jump isn't it is a big I mean what existed then that's kind of different now was a club circuit that if you could get reasonably regularly books you could earn a decent living out that's all jongler is no sort of thing genres, exactly, that comedy story, the Glee clubs and all those kind of places,

Blue Ribbon, which are still, you know, I've still played them from time to time, still great clubs. But you can earn a good living from that. I think where I'm sympathetic to younger comics now is that alone, you know, you're not going to earn a living from that. And so it's funny, you know, when I hear people talk about younger comics, a lot of people take issue with their sensitivity and stuff, which, again, I'm not sure it's true for most of them, in fact.

But they are definitely the hardest working generation of comics I've ever encountered. Really? Because they have to be. They have to produce content all the time and they're well suited to it. They'll sit down and they'll just knock up a clip, edit it, put the captions on it. And you can imagine, you know, I'm 50 in a couple of years. I'm sitting there and write fonts. Yes, I guess you're trying to, where do I start?

Which font should I use for this clip? But, you know, it's interesting with comedy. A lot of people have talked about the fear of cancellation, it being hyper-sensitive. Absolutely. I would say at this point, that has receded slightly and it's probably as vibrant and as exciting as I've ever known it. On TV, terrestrial television, there are still issues, certain channels are perhaps overly cautious about things. But, you know, with YouTube, with all the things people can create, and the live thing, I mean, I just finished a work in progress leg for my next

tour. So I'm back out touring from mid-September. And just audiences are fantastic. I'm not sure audiences ever did become hypersensitive, to be honest, in a live context. Adults can generally sense context, nuance and meaning. So are you suggesting there's kind of little armies of people out there who are waiting to be? There were. I mean, don't get me wrong, in 2020, where that thing all felt like it peaked, and I think all of us were, and it's the last thing you should ever do is a comic. Obviously, you don't want to upset people for no reason, and you should always make sure you've got a good joke at the end of it. But, yeah, I'll be honest and say, I did self-censor a bit around that time, 2020, 2021, because you could see... Sensor by just self-censorship.

Yeah, no, look, there was shows that I appeared on at the time. I was part of, you know, both writing and being on shows where they did seem to look at certain subjects and, you know, they hesitated because of the potential for online backlash. But that, you know, I feel like that we're coming out of that. I feel like shows like the news quiz, particularly since Andy's been on it, you know, they've tried to get a range of voices on it. And he's a great host. And I think it's better when there's, you know, people to push back on. It's not all coming from one point of view. So I'd actually go against what people say about comedy now.

I actually think we're in potentially a really good age for stand up in this. country. And that censorship is that problem of people simply having one point of view and not listening to another. I guess is what you're saying is that there has to be that alternate view. It's like I was saying about like test cricket reflected in life. Like most people know people with different views. It's kind of weird that in your whole life you encounter people. I mean everyone know when they go back for a family Christmas. There might be things said that you go, oh, heek. But yeah, that sounded a bit like a Christmas cracker joke. But, you know, in real life, you have to get along with these things.

But there was a period, I suppose, with comedy, where it did tend so far towards one point of view that perhaps there were elements of the public that felt it didn't speak to them. But I think there's been good things that have happened to redress that. Yeah. What's your typical live audience, do you think? Mine's really mixed. I mean, a lot of people seem to think that because of where my politics skew and where I'm coming from and the fact that I look,

I basically look like an electrician. You know, I look like an electrician that's probably going to say something dodgy any minute. I mean, that's kind of my aesthetic, but the great thing is, is I get this incredible mix. I get people right of centre, left of centre. I get really, you know, really what would, you know, imperfect phrase, woke people come in. I get a really good mix and the truth is that it's boring when it's not, when it's, it's not, if everybody agrees with me, that's just a rally, you know, that's not, that's not much fun. But you don't mind a bit of heckling, and if you say something that sort of objects to, but in a comedy sort of a way. Well, you don't get that much these days, Zaggers,

but I did used to have a thing called a heckle amnesty. So in the second half of the show that people could shout out anything they want, and it was a good idea on paper. Quite hard to keep a flow of a show going, is it? Well, it was a segment, but sometimes people would be so hostile in that five minutes. You'd realise the show's not gone so well.

It was sort of like Mitchell Johnson coming on for a quick burst in 2013. I'd get a few up around the ribs, around the heart, round the throat, as Geoffrey Boycott would say. And then I'd have to go back to the... medium paces but I'd be ruffled up and I don't know how far I can take this quick metaphor but I'd probably try and hit the spinner out of the park and get bold it is brave they're going out and doing a live stand-up isn't it I mean to go out there and face an audience a big audience and it's something you get I think like

riding horses is scary you know there's so many things I find scary like being a carer is scared there's so many jobs that that I couldn't do so the respect that stand-up gets is odd to stand-ups because once you've done it long enough mostly you're happy to be up there. And, you know, at the extreme end of it was when I did gigs in Afghanistan

for the British Armed Forces and we did some gigs at forward bases. And those, so we're doing them at 11 AM. We'd get a Chinook in there, set up, do the gig. And they would literally be

going out on foot patrol, but they'd say, I couldn't do what you do. You go, I couldn't do what you do, man. You're literally doing the most dangerous thing. So I think, if I'm honest,

stand-ups, we benefit from an excess level of respect. It's that fear of people have a public speaking. and I think Jerry Fotton Seinfeld once said that a funeral most people would rather be in the casket than reading the eulogy so I think that it gets this reputation as an extreme sport which I'm happy for people to think

I had no idea that actually comedians and others I presume were taken out on on missions and tours and events like that to what sort of bolster morale is it? Yeah like the old-fashioned Bob Hope you know right through there was lots of really great comics that did it for several years. And I suppose if comedy is supposed to be like that sort of left turn, you know, that misdirection or that surprise thing

that distracts you momentarily, doing it in that situation for those people that were under massive stress. And whatever people might think about the armed forces or politically about those conflicts, once you got there, what you were in front of was young men and women largely, mainly from working class backgrounds that were in a very stressful situation.

So they weren't easy gigs, I won't lie. I mean, 11 a.m. and everyone's sober. That's tricky. Yeah, did you feel I don't know, a bit sort of guilty leaving them behind afterwards I mean you've done your best but then you get cherooked out again

and that's it, you leave them to it Yeah, no, there was definitely a bit of that and then because one year I did I did five of those tours between 2011 and 2013 I actually got a medal, Agas I got a medal which seemed a bit because I'd done 60 days in theatre

and I sort of thought that I'm not sure I've learnt that I'm not sure I think there's a lot of people but I'm happy to dine out on it for the rest of it and Ramesh Ranganafananathan always makes a point that it's i'm never far from bringing it up you know i'm kind of like uncle albert during the war well he brought it up again now i did i didn't even prod you for that under no pressure

are you able to keep an eye on a complete test match i mean i admire people to come to one day of a test match enormously because they must if they say they come on a saturday they must have watched thursday and friday or somehow got so you don't just turn up and say what's the score do you and they sit down and watch a day and then leave it again no you're investing it's like buying shares in it yeah yeah you've got to know what's going on that game then you watch one day of it and then off you go again then you watch it either on the telly or listen to the radio or well like a lot of people I suppose the dream for me is to do all of the days of a test of a test match I'm not sure my liver

liver could come but we haven't got to do that you can sit quietly it's true when we come so we tend to do one day test cricket a year with the lads and because it's one day we tend to you know we do the party stand and we do all that sort of stuff but I've always looked on very endlessly the following day that you see guys that are sort of sunburnt from the previous day that they've got the sun hats on they've got the call box they're heading back to the ground so you know who I mean who knows life in work is still busy for me now but it is cricket is the one thing that makes me savour the idea of retirement I think and I've never really gone far into the county game but I can absolutely

see myself getting into that it's one sort of regret that I've never known the county game as much detail as I'd like but but the ways that you can keep up with the game now are greater than they were you know in some ways digitally and then Obviously, you get, you know, you get the Test Match Special podcast at the end. So there's a lot of different ways to stay across it, even if it's not on, sadly, on free-to-air television. Zaltzman arrived a moment ago. What's it like working with Andy Zaltzwell on the news quiz?

Is he kind of, because he's quite quiet here. He goes about his business, quite quiet. I mean, look at this. There's a lot of coloured. Different coloured pens. I mean, that's a bit of an insight, I think, into the mind, isn't it? I mean, look at that. And here, I think he uses everyone.

I mean, here's his score sheet. I'd like the Zaltzman's score sheet. I mean, look at the different colors. There's something strange going on here, isn't there? Do you know what I'm like in those crime things where they see something pinned up on a wall? Yeah. And then something sinister with loads of red things

going in other directions. That's what his score sheet has like. Long yellow line there, look. I mean, what, does that give an insight into the Zaltzman line? Well, do you know what, it does speak to how he does comedy. There's a sort of like he's, you know, his lines come out of nowhere,

but there's also a precision to them as well. One of the great things about doing news quiz. One of the great things I do a news quiz is Andy is, I know if I do a joke about cricket, I'll get more points. I mean, I was on it a couple of weeks ago, and it was shameless. I literally referenced it. I made an analogy about Jimmy and Monty batting at Cardiff. I said, look, I know you guys didn't find that funny,

but that's guaranteed points. And five points, which in news quiz world is, I mean, that's a lot of points, very generous. That's hitting it out of the ground. Is it easy to, I mean, is there much comedy in cricket, do you think? I mean the characters I mean I love I love the different characters

you get in cricket and he could sort of build up a bit of a caricature of people the hair or the way they move or their hopelessness in time for the bat I mean you know

commentating on Phil Tuftanal batting for instance that's comedy gold really I love well yeah comedy's about status and then the idea I mean if you just stop and think about the idea of someone who's special shallity is not at all batting as to bat against some of the best bowlers.

90 miles and out. Out you go. It's cruel. Yeah, but I can't see it. Never mind. Out you go. It's pervert. I mean, you, you bad against the West Andes. I know, I know, can you imagine it. I can't. Seriously. No. It's, it's, it's, it is quite. That is quite funny. There's this mean, and I think that, you know, those little things like Stokes at the moment, his hair's a little bit lighter than usual. It's got a bit gold. Where's that? See, that's interesting. You can have a little gossip. I'm not grass. I asked a bad question about his hair the other day and he put me away. Oh, okay. And I interviewed Ben about three times a week during the summer, and I've got an early 1-0 down. Okay, well, I would say the way you could spin that is that he's also looking fitter than he's ever looked.

Correct. I think the hair... I'll come back with that. The hair matches the body. This now sounds a bit wrong, but he's looking fantastic. Yeah, and the streak of it. And actually, you know, bowling with hostility, just as though he'd never had the injuries.

The period coming up, then India, and then the ashes. I mean, it's a terrific time to be a cricket fan, isn't? Well, the greatest thing ever is when you're doing... a gig in the winter you finish and the cricket's starting for a drive home. I mean, unless they bowl like seven wide's first ball. Yeah, we're hoping it doesn't happen again. So you'll be tucked up with headphones in when we're there in the winter. Yeah, I'll be tucked up.

I think it'll be starting just after the autumn leg of my tour finishes. So, yeah, I'll, yeah, and I'll have, I'll be an insomniac for about six weeks, but in a good way. Well, Jeff Norkot has. We'd love to have you. And I'm so glad that you've enjoyed coming, which you obviously have, which is what the slot's all about. Thank you for coming. I appreciate it.

It's a real honour. Thank you. On BBC Sounds, this is sport's strangest crimes. From the man who tried to buy cricket. One night, one game,

one or take off, $20 million. The kidnap of a super horse. It must have been terrifying. Of course it was. How we got through all they go on? An ill-advised errands changing F-1 forever.

It will haunt the people involved for as long as they live. A trillion. dollar takeover, which never took off. Broadsters of this level, they will never stop. The mysterious death of a superstar cyclist. Entering the world, a professional cycling

was like joining the mafia. And teammates becoming bitter enemies and one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Betrayal, plots. We've gone beyond women's football in France. Sports, strangest crimes. Listen on BBC Sounds.

In Turkey, if you're willing to take a detour, you'll discover the food, even social media hasn't got to yet. From Michelin Stars and Wine and Euler to traditional recipes and the home of Baclava in the east. Discover the culinary capital of Gaziantem and talk to the locals. Every dish has its own story. Flavors, experimentation and tradition, Turkey has it all. Plan your detour at go-turkia.com. Thank you.