Test Match Special - View from the Boundary - Mark Little

Episode Date: June 17, 2023

Jonathan Agnew is joined by Australian actor, television presenter, comedian and screen/stage writer Mark Little to talk about his career, his attempts at playing cricket at the young age of 63, and playing Bottom in Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream.

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BBC Sounds, music, radio podcasts. Hear every ball of every match in the men's and women's ashes live on Radio 5 Sports Extra and BBC Sounds. An Australian actor, TV presenter, poet, an award-winning comedian. His show, Defending the Caveman, won an Olivia Award. He took over as a presenter of the Big Breakfast from Chris Evans and once lost out to Ryan's sidebottom on dancing on ice. He's best known, and you've probably got it with a laugh there already, actually, for playing. iconic role in the Australian TV soap opera Neighbors as Joe Mangle. He became a household name, both in Australia and here in the UK.

And Neighbors, of course, has an important role to play in TMS history with Brian Johnston, often discussing events in Ramsey Street during the programme. So it's a very warm welcome to Mark Little. And it's lovely to have you here, Mark. Great to be here. Thank you so much. I can't believe I'm actually here. I can't believe I'm talking about Neighbors on Test Match Special. Well, you know, it was a phenomenon, wasn't it?

It was a thing. It was a real thing that happened. and I was part of it and been a big part of my being in this country and enjoying this country and the culture of this country. It took me on with that character that I did in that particular soap opera.

And I've been here ever since. I've been here since 92. And, well, I can't believe I'm sitting here, though. Well, that's nice. Well, we'll talk about it just for people who don't remember Joe. And the whole setup of all of that. And you said that it was responsible for you being here as well

because Joe was, I mean, there's some lovely Australian words. I think Larrakens, one of my favorites of Australian terms, really. He describes a sort of easy, happy-go-lucky sort of a chap. He definitely was a larrican. And he was just on the right side of the law. It was an interesting time in the neighbour's history because it was before it was actually huge here that I went into the show.

It wasn't a global sensation at that point. It was a little place where I'm going to hide here No one know that I'm doing this show. And that was in the late 80s. And then all of a sudden, I'm in the show, and it took off. And Kylie and Jason, Kylie's doing singles, and they're asking the Neighbors' cast to go and do Royal Command Performance. It's like, I beg you pardon, what's going on?

What is going on with British culture? They're all over this show. And Joe was, he was a, interesting character because his mum was called Mrs. Mangle and she was one of the great soap characters ever of all of all soaps. Mexico, Britain, Australia. She was clever.

And they asked me to play her son, Joe Mangle. And because Kylie and Jason were about to leave the show. And they thought, oh, well, oh, that's going to be the end of it. We need something to liven it up. Maybe we'll get Mrs. Mangle to have a son and he's a little bit opposite to what she was because she was quite a Puritan. Joe was a little bit of a naughty boy.

Maybe the Mangalera can take over from the Kylie and Jason era, which it did. And more ways than we could know, because he was a single dad, he had kids, he had dogs, everything they say to do as an actor, don't act with kids of dogs. That's all I did. That's all I did for three years. But he was, you know, he was an Aussie. I tried to bring that an Aussie culture that wasn't really, what's the word

taken on as much back in the day, back in that late 80s being Aussie and that sort of ochre was still a little bit not quite deregure but Joe Mangle came in rough around the edges. A bit rough, he was a bit of a rough

diamond but I tried to use as much Aussie lingo as I possibly could because they kept saying to me look this is starting to go really big in the UK you can't say things like thongs and ute because they won't know what you're talking about. He liked his utes, Sidney. He loved a yute.

His yute was stolen. It's a big part of a lot of these, a lot of Britons, like, cultures, they always ask me about me yute. What happened to your yute? So they were saying, you can't use this language. The POMs won't know what you're talking about.

So, look, I don't care. They'll find out. They'll find out. If I say it enough, they'll work it out that maybe thongs are like flip-flops, and maybe all those other words he's talking about, we'll sort it out. And so he did.

I made him a repository of good old Aussie lingo that was starting to die within the country because of American culture. And I thought, we've got to keep some of this stuff alive. Drongo and just great Aussie words that we have in our culture. And so I made Joe Mangled that bloke. And that seemed to catch up. John, the fact that he was a single dad, too, that really helped.

I get a lot of bloke love around here because a lot of young blokes who are nine, they're now 30-somethings, 40-somethings, and I get a lot of love from them saying, I remember you as you. Yeah. We watched you a lot. Up against it a bit, you know. He was fighting it, you know, a little bit on the, having a hard time. But he was a working class, but he wasn't stupid.

But he could be a bit of a drongo. Yeah. But a good bloke. He had a heart of gold. Yeah, yeah. Well, I was reading somewhere, apparently, it's your fault that British people now increasing are saying no worries. That's your fault.

Well, good. So it should be. But I do notice that, you know, there is, because of neighbours itself and because of all that Aussie lingo and how it was such a phenomenon, there are a lot of Australian terms that have made their way into the British culture. Because, you know, Brits have been going to Australia for a long time, for holidays, a lot of kids going and doing their sort of gap year

and stuff. So the lingo came back from Australia back to, and yeah, no probs, no worries, no drama. It's all good, so it should come back. Because you know, we all came from

there once upon a lot. White Australia came from over this way. Yeah, absolutely. So it's all part of a big cycle, isn't it? More neighbours in a bit, because I've got Brian Johnson's stories. I mean, who's who's obsessed with it. But by the way, so I'll tell you about that in a bit. But what about cricket?

Cricket. I know. What a game. Your face. Your face. And I thought, see, I was going to ask you, are you still, because he's a long time now. Yeah.

Where's the loyalty? I mean, in fact, it's not even a question of Australian or English anymore. It's the game itself. Yes, but also you're living in Wales. I mean, you're Welsh. Well, I'm Welsh. You embrace the Welsh. There's a local Welsh club that's asked me to come and do some nets,

and I've been down there. So loyalties are very torn. They've seen me bowl and they've still asked me to come and have a game. They're not good? It's not great. I'm not a bowler. I'm more rugby league player. But, you know, I'm a good fielder.

Right. I'm a bit Derek Randall in the field. Oh, you? He was my role model as a young cricketer. But he was good. He was great. He was brilliant. I've had my brilliant moments in the field.

Have you? Yeah. I'm part of folklore. Some of the catches I've taken. in what sort of position slip really leg slipped I've taken a beauty

at leg slip once in the covers yeah now I've taken some screamers in me time I love a bit of cricket model on Derek Randall he used to come running in

he was idiosyncratic he was but he was different because he would start off maybe 15 yards from where he was actually supposed to be and he would then run in there lots of skipping at huge feet

what size did he I'm not huge footed but I would do the same sort of fielding Yeah, massive feet. And he'll come running in from point, yeah. And he just, he was part of that hype up, like Warnie did. Warnie was very proactive with the game and give it large. And it put the opposition off.

And I reckon Derek Randall used to do the same. It's the same with young Smithy, his idiosyncratic. It's like, wow, that is going to put you off. It is strange, isn't it? It's very strange. And he took over as my favourite cricketer until a couple of years ago. Oh. Then it happened, didn't it?

Well, that incident. Bring your own sandpaper. Yeah. Did that not sit well with you? It didn't. It didn't. A lot of Australians felt the same, by the way. Well, as a youngster in the 70s, my moral code was kung fu on the television and cricket.

The Rules of Cricket. You played back yard cricket for hours and hours and hours, and it was all about being fair. Yeah. If you're out, you're out. And in backyard cricket, no umpires so you have to yeah i hit that you have to it's about not cheating yeah it was a very important part of my upbringing so the last team i thought would ever be accused of cheating was

the Aussies and uh it hurt still hurts and i i stopped watching the game for a couple of years so i don't know about we're not alone we were in new zealand at the time actually you can imagine how much they enjoyed it well see we still get that about bowling underarm in the 70s No, I know. You know, that stuff's going to stick. It does stick. So keep the sandpaper in your pocket, lads. At least, hide it away.

Yeah. How did anyone know you had sandpaper? What the hell are you doing? No. There are a lot of people who felt me in that down. It put me off, young Smitty, because I rate him as one of the great players of my game. I love this game. I love coming to a ground like this and seeing people play my favorite game as good as it can be played.

Have you forgiven him? Well, I think today he's got his medicine. He took a big dose of humble pie today. He got booed again. You know, that's not a great thing. Hopefully that'll wear off, but that's going to take a long time to wear off. He didn't make his ton. So he's going to have to play, you know,

it's going to have to show his character through this series. And he makes his tons later on and brings this back. Because, you know, there's basball to contend with. and you know the Aussies are going to I hope he gets it back for me he has a bit because I do like watching him and I'm really happy that I'm seeing him play today

he got out while I was up here but that's cricket it's interesting honesty and fairness in sport though isn't it because there is hopefully some sort of moral code within cricket but then you never quite know where it sits Aussie batsmen it's not now only Aussies

but certainly back in the day didn't use to walk very much. All that. That has spread now. That's, I don't think you find many batsmen who do actually walk anymore. But my experience of Australians and sport

is that you play hard, you want to win. You want to win at all costs, but not, not through cheating. I always felt that was not an Australian thing at all. You want to, you want to win so hard, but not to that limit. Not cheating. Yeah. No, really. And

that's what I think we lost a bit. And that's it's going to take us a little while to get it back. Who was your favourite? He said he took over as your favourite cricketer, so who was it before? Well, Derek Randall. It was Derek Randall. So why would an Australian have Derek Randall's?

Well, you know, I just like... So he didn't we test, Dennis Lilly, scoring the 100 in Melbourne, doffing his cap with Lily running in and bowling bounces at him? There was all that. See, there was Dennis and Tomo. I loved all that. And see, the West Indians were playing an amazing cricketer too.

So we all actually wanted to play like that. because I was around with Kim Hughes was playing for Australian we couldn't win for nuts we couldn't really play so it was the West Indies you wanted to play like then it came in

then it was a pajama game and Packer came in with one day cricket white balls and playing at night and what's going on they're playing cricket at night do they come your way because you're a Queenslander aren't you I'm a Queensland so

I mean Melbourne Sydney very much the heart of cricket I think around about that time whereas Brisbane always seemed a bit detached. Yeah, the Gabba. Did the Packer come up there? I can't remember him playing many games up there.

I don't think so, no. I think it was all very, very Sydney-based. Yeah, Melbourne-based. Sydney-centric. Yes. Yeah, and where they could afford to have lights up at night. They're playing cricket at night. What's going on here?

So, yeah, I've been through a good stage of where cricket's been at as a sport and as a spectacle. And it was good. I like all this basball stuff. and it's good that Stokesy declared yesterday. You like that? Oh, I like that. I think that's how the Aussies used to play.

Yeah, like declare. Make a game of it. Make a game of it. Make it a bit half to the Aussies. And it's put the hebi-jeebies on them. You can tell. Do you like all the hype around the ashes? Do you enjoy all that?

I mean, he seems to get bigger every time. The countdown to it on all the bill of up? Well, it needs it. It's a corporate thing, isn't it? There's money to be made out there, and the game needs it. There's enough degree of being played, but that rivalry between Oz and the UK and, you know, England especially, it's really strong. And you feel it out there today.

That was a great morning of sport, you know, like what's going on, the wickets where that brought his was on his hat trick there for a second. That was exciting. Yes. And an English crowd in a good mood for a change. It's good to hear the English crowd in a good mood at the cricket. Yeah, yeah. The noise is. fantastic and this has got an old school

old school feel to it edge bastard because it hasn't it hasn't completely arenaed up it is about this we're all still on the hill in one place so it feels like we're all together when you came here and you did allude to it I mean because of

your success as as Joe Mangal that kind of that led you coming here didn't it to well it was a war of the Edinburgh Festival because I realize that there's actually there's this festival where you can go and you put on your own show and then you can tour it around the country because back in the

time, back in the day, Australia wasn't really into theatre. I couldn't tour my own country back in the 90s, back in the 80s. It wasn't a thing. Really? Australia's weren't into the theatre. You don't go to the theatre. We go to the sport. You've got a number on your back? No. Oh, well,

it doesn't, I don't care. Has that changed? But over here, it has, yeah. It has changed. There is now a circuit and people go on there and they tour Australia, they tour New Zealand. Sounds like a really good gig. It does. If I was still there, I'd probably still be there.

But I had to come over here and chase the work. So I came over here. Then I did a show called The Big Breakfast. Yes. And I was accepted as a foreigner on this incredible piece of cultural TV that was happening in breakfast in the morning. And about then, about the mid-90s, I was made an ambassador for cricket.

And cricket was starting to vibe up as well. I was starting to lose its English. It was all a bit staid, wasn't it? It was all a bit the old tired. So the East... The English cricket board made you... They made me an ambassador of cricket. Of English cricket?

Of cricket. Of cricket. Cricket itself. Wow. And just to vibe it up and get it a bit more sort of crowd-friendly. So I was coming along to games. And when they first put the music on the one-day games, you know, when there'd be a boundary and someone, a DJ would put on a bit of a tune. Yep.

That was unheard of. It was unheard of. I was there with Michael Vaughn. That interesting challenge. between NASA and Michael Vaughn, that change that happened to English cricket where it seemed to get a little bit less old-school tie but a more normal people playing the game.

Andrew Flintov, there became this change where it became more of a people's game and less of a posh person sport. And I was there for that. It chose you to do it. They chose Joe Mangel to do it. They chose Joe Mangel to do it because I knew I had a reach

and also with big breakfast and I was happy to do it because I love me cricket and I thought the English should enjoy their cricket a bit more and they do now or at least be shown to at least reveal more of yourself

you mean and obviously enjoy more go at it and the Barmy armies you know that wasn't around back in the day but that's now it's all really exciting so what did you do if you turn up for work here

turn up for work here and I'd have to introduce the players and introduce the teams and it was all of it, and then Eminem would come on, and Alistair would come on, he'd remember. It was back in those early days of vibing up the game and having a compere and having music, and it all livened up a bit. And the crowd, I remember this stand had just been built

when I was doing it. I don't know how long this standard, which was, that stand there. Yeah, the holidays. How long has that been? Well, that would have been, yeah, 90s, isn't it? Yeah, not too long. No, no, mid-90s. It was all a big thing, like, oh, look at that.

They built a nice stand They've done a great job with it Yeah And that's not Antique now But it's an old bit of kit But that was new When I was here

Would you go around there now Do the field It's a lively In there you know I like it lively It's got to be lively Who knows Because I've had many

Joe Mangals got many There's only one Joe Mangal There's many There's many Barmy Army Joe Mangle But you're not entirely recognisable I've been looking I mean look We've all changed a bit

Over the years But Well I've aged to like I wouldn't have spotted you walking. I wouldn't have said, you know, that's Joe Mank. Well, I've been living up in the bush, haven't? I've let myself go a bit.

I haven't had a hair gun. I haven't seen a barma because of the lockdown. So I've got the beard going on and it's like, hello. And nobody recognises me as much when I've got a bit hairy. So I was like, oh, actually, I don't mind this because I can be a bit more anonymous and just be a normal person out there without having to. Not that I mind it too much. I understand the love I get.

And I can't believe it half the time. You think, come on, man, that was a long time ago. But yeah, having the long hair, just an accident, really. The TMS podcast. Watch highlights of every day of every test on IPlayer. Money, glamour, politics, spying, violence, takeovers, kidnapping, and photocopying. This is sports, strangest crimes.

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on BBC Sounds Mark Taylor I saw today I had breakfast of Mark with some Aussies in Birmingham and he told his story he came when he was a pro at Berry

at club up north and he came as a pro and on the first day he got there said so what times what times practice then and they said well pro he used to go well pro

just after half past six and he said what do you mean just after half past six we didn't buy that he said well at six o'clock Oh, no, no, no, no, no, Neighbors is on then. So, so at Mark Taylor's club up in Lancashire, they even, their practice hours were dictated by neighbours.

Is that bizarre? The whole thing was quite, it made it more than the TV show, made it a phenomenon, didn't it? And in fact, it was on twice a day, so there's people racing back to see it again. But yeah, I'm amazed. I've squatties, of teachers, of aristocrats, I have all sorts of people

were watching it. Everyone seemed to be watching it. It's hard, hard to explain, really. There's an email from Steve Smith. Smithy? No. Smithy, mate. This one's from Sunny, no.

He's not tuned in. This one, this one's from Sunny Suffolk. I remember watching Mark, turning his arm over in Ramsey Street. And my first thought was, that was a proper leggy action. Hello. He knows what he's doing. But listening to this, I'm not so sure. I do bowl of leggy, but it's very, very ordinary now.

I've just, I got old. I went down the net. two weeks ago, and I realized I hadn't had a cricket ball in my hand for 10 years since I played for the East Sussex over 40s. Right. I thought, wow, this is a long time, this is going to hurt. And I threw a few down, it was awful. They were hitting the top of the

nets, and it was like, oh, this is no good. So you're still trying to play now? I mean, you're my age. We're the same age. I haven't. Are you a 59er? Yeah, more. I'm actually a 60er, but we're at the moment we're the same age. In years, we're at the same, sort of around the same era. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't contemplate playing. They've asked me, well, I can't

I can't run anywhere, but I'm good in the slips, as I said. You don't have to run too far. You never lose that. Never lose that. I hope not. It's going to hit me square between the eyes, isn't it? No, I've still got my reflexes. I still got me enjoying me to the game, and I'm still alert.

And you're going to stand out there in the field? I like that. I like fielding. Yeah. That's my favourite bit, because I'm not much of a batsman, and I'm not much of a bowler. You must have played quite a lot of firms or charity games, though, didn't you? with or against some, you know, famous cricketers doing what you did? No, I never had, I missed out on that for some reason.

I missed out on that luck of playing at lords and stuff. I would have loved to do all that. They're talking about the taverners want you. Oh, great. Tell them, I want to play, I want to play. It never happened. That never quite happened. I was, I don't know, it must have been busy.

And once I did Defending the Cave Man, that theatre show that we talked about earlier, that was like the million mile tour. That was, I went, the whole naughties from 2000 to 2010. I was on the road. That was hard work. Tell me about that show, because, I mean, they just hand out Olivier Awards, do they? No, they don't. Standing up by herself?

Yeah, thank you. Every night. Yeah, yeah. It was one of the longest running one-man, one-person shows, ever in the West End. And I think Reds Livermore, another Aussie had broken that record. But I think I did nine months in the West End. No one had ever done that. And then it turned out that it was the right, what's the word, zeitgeist.

It was the right thing to be saying to people at that. Essentially, it's something like how men and women are kind of different. The similarities and the differences between us. Very clever. I'm putting it in these cave terms. And men being hunters and gatherers. And that's what we do with the channel changer. We're hunting down channels.

Right. It was very, very clever. And it was very smart. And it was gentle with men and women. So as a show, you could bring your couples. Couples could come along with. Yes. and re-fall in love.

And I know it sounds a bit daggy, but people were falling in love before March. In this show, like, oh, yeah, that's what he's like. That's what he's like. That's what she's like. That's what, it's like really clever piece of theatre. And people just couldn't get enough for it. So it was like Sydney-Aub bridge painting

and I was going around and around Britain just doing this show all through the noughties. I mean, would it work now? Because it was, what, 15 years ago, wasn't it? And then, you know, it's politically and everything else. Is it... Now is so weird, isn't that? Them and they and pronouns and...

Would it work now? It'd have to be reworked because I think people are a lot more sensitive now. I think people get on their high horse a bit before they've even heard what's happening. The theatre show would take 90 minutes for the story to be told. People don't have 90 minutes on Twitter or TikTok.

It's got to happen in 90 seconds or it's all over, mate. Yeah, even fewer than that may be. Exactly. So I don't think so. I think it needs... you need to softly, softly approach nowadays. And to say something important, honest, real, you're getting too much stick.

It's weird. Even though 15 years ago this was viewed as being gentle. Yeah, exactly. It has changed that much. I think it's changed a lot because the metrosexual male has come along since then. We haven't talked about him. It's all about the male crisis. What happened to mailness?

and where did it go wrong and why is there toxic masculinity but that's only a new issue toxic masculinity is a new thing to be and that play doesn't cover that so it would need an extension to it and need a second half to deal with what we've been going on

over the last 10 years which is really different how what we're allowed to say what we're not allowed to say yeah and does that show in your comedy now and your any writing that you do?

I mean, yeah. It is all that playing, playing a part? It's really difficult. I'm not, I, as an older bloke,

I have to be really careful. I've used my old term terminology. Like, oh, don't, don't say that. You've got to be really careful. And then what do you say? What do you have to be willing to put up with

being trolled on social network to say the truth? So you have to be really tough. Yes. And I've got to an age where, well, I'm tough, can I be bothered? People would say that's your truth, maybe.

They'd say these days. Maybe, my truth, but I'm trying to get at the truth. How much do you put up with it? How much do you put up with it? I mean, does it get to point? You just say, that's it. I've had enough and switch everything off. Yeah, a little bit now over the last five years or so. Now I've gone up into Wales, into the bush, and COVID,

it made the theatre world a bit difficult to make it quit at. Yes. You know, people don't have, and cost a living crisis. I haven't got that spare cash to go out and see a show. So it made my job, which is live theatre, a bit more difficult. I've had changed my tack and, you know, we've got a barn that we're setting up and people can come and stay there. I need another revenue sort of another way to earn a quit.

Oh, right. As an old actor, as an old actor, it's hard. You know, you get less work as an older actor. Yes. And as an old comedian, well, my love. Lord, you're like a dinosaur. I'm like a dinosaur out there. But you do spread your talents, Mark,

with his Colin saying, it's lovely listening to. Probably not so well known as he's actually, you have done Shakespeare. I have. Mid-Summer Night's Dream. Stafford Castle. Oh, one of the great, one of the great bottoms.

I've seen amazing. You're a bottom. Oh, bottom. My bottom was, you should have seen my bottom at Stafford. You're on fire. Oh, my Lord, what a funny. We added 25 minutes every night to that show with large. just my bottom. That was some of the best work

I've ever done that. That was one of the great Shakespeare's ever. My wife was literally crying with laughter, which is not normally you wouldn't normally associate that with Shakespeare. No, William, William was rolling his grave from just gratitude like, thank you for putting on a piece of Shakespeare that's how it should have been done. Really?

Yeah, and bottom was good. So he must have had a very liberal director then to have allowed you to do this to Shakespeare, or was that the idea of it? Shakespeare is what he intended. especially those mechanicals and bottom, and now that working class guys would come and they go to court and just muck it all up.

It's a complete disaster, but it was great. It was, I was able to do some of my best work in that show because, yes, I'm classically trained. Yes. Back in the day, back in the 70s, I went to NIDA in Australia, the National Institute of Dramatic Art. So I am trained to act,

but I found myself doing funny things like big breakfast and neighbours, that was to earn a quid. No one was supposed to see that. I had a cricket ambassador. I love. I love being a cricket ambassador. I've been down there at the half-time with all the kids and that running around

and vibrant and up saying, come on, cricket, cricket. And it's worked, I think. Crickets's in a good place. The cheating fiasco was not good, but hopefully that will go away, but they're going to have to cop a bit of booing, I think, the Aussies. I can tell you now that when I first started doing this program, which again, it seems like a million years ago,

but over 30, with Brian Johnston, the doion of cricket commentators, who taught me so much. We didn't used to have intervals in those days. We didn't have to, although he did some views from the boundary, otherwise one o'clock would come,

the players would walk off for lunch, and the commentator would say, well, there we go, it's 78 for 3, back to the studio, where somebody like Ralph Della or something would press a button, and there was some Chopin or some Mendelssohn.

I remember hearing that. It would just be classical music played during the intervals. So we would then be able to have our sandwiches or something in the commentary box because he didn't have to do anything. It was lovely, really. It was very relaxed.

But Brian Johnston had a bit of pressure on because he had one of those very, very first portable televisions. They were like a grey box and the screen was quite small, black and white, obviously. And a sort of telescopic aerial sticking out. And so the first thing he had to do was set it up I find a table in the commentary box with nothing else, no cakes or anything on it, set it up, plug it in, press the sort of frequency tuner, get his aerial out, and he was swinging it round the commentary box to find where he could get, find the channel. And then he would sit back with his sandwiches, and he would watch neighbours.

Neighbours? He went to all that trouble for neighbours. He would watch neighbours for the half hour during the lunch break. What year are you talking now? We're talking in 1991. Oh my lord, that was my honour. period. You'd have been there. That was my era. You'd have been there. Then it would finish and he'd pack it up

and of course there weren't any mobile phones in those days. So he would use the telephone in the commentary box and he'd ring this number up. Hello, hello Paul, yeah, yeah. Mrs. Mangal, what on earth what has gone on there? Well, I know

Paul, I know Paul. I wonder I said, who's this Paul do you keep ringing up there? Paul Getty. So one of the richest men in the the world, the oil tycoon, John Paul Getty. Yeah. He and Brian Johnson would discuss what Joe was up to in his youth. John Paul Getty, he gave a heck.

Yeah. He actually cared what you were doing. Where would he live in? Was he living in America? He was at Wormsling. No, he was down, he was in Oxfordshire. Oh, I see. That's beautiful ground at Wormsley.

Oh, my Lord. Yeah, that's... Yeah, look, it was, it got in. Yeah. It really did get in. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird thing, and he'd then come on and discuss it on the radio things that had happened in it and so on. How much do you owe to Joe, do you think?

I mean, and how... I owe, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. Is it? You know, he stopped me doing my art in a lot of ways, because I was not able to do my true comedy because people go, that's Joe Mangle. Yeah. And what's Joe Mangel talking about? What's Joe Mangle think he's doing? didn't get cast in as many films maybe as I said

because we don't want Joe Mangal in our movie so there was a bit of that has come up but you know I've been on the road and his face has helped me earn money in the theatre so it's double-edged you chose to leave didn't you after only what three three years I thought

that's a big decision isn't it I mean you've got you could have done that for I've put it over forever. I could have had a house in Alcapulco. I could have had a house in Paris. Yeah. So why? I don't know. I don't know.

I can't go back. Because I'd had enough. And I was working with a little kid on the telly. And I was Sky and she was only two. And she wasn't enjoying it. She didn't like being on the telly. And I had my own kids at home. Yes.

It's like, I can't do this. This is not good enough. And I talked to Helen Daniel and she said, don't worry. you leave a soap, you'll only be recognised for as long as you've been in it. And I went off three years. So it'll be all over in three years and no one will remember me. People will be amazed that you've only in it for three years, though. Well, that's right, because you'd think I'd been in it for 33 years

because people are still all over it. Yeah. But it was just that period of time. It was the 80s. It was not just neighbours, but there was a whole lot of stuff going on. I think we had a fascination for Australia, you know. Looking back at my age then, you know, in the 20s and so on, and wanting to travel and obviously loving cricket.

But you were right to do it that way, weren't you? You were right to do it the Australian way for our viewers, to talk Australian, to set our imaginations going of what Australia is actually like. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful weather, going to the beach, and all those sorts of things. All that. We fell in love with Australia, I think, largely because of your programme. I think so.

And Neighbors was like Early Coronation Street, where neighbours would talk to each other over the back fence. You know, their houses were unlocked. There was more community. Yes. It was, people were longing for that because people stopped doing that anymore, talking to their real neighbours over the back fence.

They just watched Australian neighbours over the back fence. So that was the beginning of the end, really, neighbours of people's community. but it was a time that people felt was lost and they wanted back and we still want it back we want that feeling of community yeah the last episode then there was so much publicity about that

and everyone getting together and all the main actors having some part in that last episode isn't that right Kylie and Jason were all in well they were clambering for it yes they were so sure enough I mean Joe had to appear well I was I got an surprise when they said we want Joe to be in an episode with Harold and I said well that's

fair enough because Joe and Harold was a big part of that early 90s late 80s early 90s love affair that people had with neighbors we had such a good relationship who always loved Harold didn't they when it was Harold the old boy who it was a silly old duffer yeah he was brilliant and Joe and him used to go at each other all the time and it was a lot of comedy in that um oh I'm sorry what are we talking about I was wondering how you played that part for that last episode because oh the last episode everyone was turning up there in Melbourne or wherever they film it well it hadn't been for 30 years they're doing polls and Joe Mangal is still one of the top 10 you think wow hey that's yeah that's pretty

good so he he deserved a Guernsey um so i did a scene with harold and they zoomed it because in technology now you can just do it yourself and put it on your own computer and send it back and there you go an episode of neighbors all by myself from wales yeah just shot it just shot it shot it on my camera and he couldn't tell no people couldn't tell no well i'm sure they could but but that's what neighbours used to look like. It looked like someone used to show it on their own phone, didn't it? It was pretty... Well, that's incredible.

It was pretty low-key. But, yeah, it was good to get a Guernsey, and I made it to the final episode. Yeah, you did, yeah. Oh, well, thank you. That's all right. Yeah, Joe Mangler, can you believe that. I know. Well, look, it's been brilliant to meet you. So good to chat.

And it's lovely to meet you, Mark. Really cool. Thanks for all the entertainment you have given an awful lot of people, a surprisingly large amount of people, I must say. There we go. Mark Little. Lovely to meet him. It just smashed right into the World Trade Center.

It's a big, big explosion of place. People who knew me. A story about lies. You used a terrorist attack to run away from your mess and fake your own death. And love. Are you proposing to me? In the face of death. I'm Paul.

I'm six weeks in the chemo. And I have no eyebrows. An original drama for BBC sounds. Yeah. Something's up. Starring Rosamine Pike and Hugh Lorry. Happy Death Anniversary. People Who Knew Me. Listen on BBC Sounds.