Test Match Special - View from the Boundary – Rishi Sunak

Episode Date: July 1, 2023

Johnathan Agnew is joined by the UK's Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, to talk about playing cricket as a child, Bazball, and getting sledged by Sam Curran.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. On Valentine's Day 2004, one of Italy's greatest cyclists was found dead in mysterious circumstances. Italy, there's growing mystery about the death of one of the country's sporting heroes. Pantani, known as the pirate, because of the yellow bandana he wore around his head.

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Marco Pantani, Death of a Pirate. Listen on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The TMS podcast. Keep up to date with live text and highlights during the match on the BBC Sport website and app. It is time for our view from the boundary, so that we introduce a well-known cricket lover

taking a view from the boundary. far this year. We've spoken to music producer Giles Martin. The actor Mark Little also known as Joe Mangul from Neighbors. So how do you follow Joe Mangal? And all we ask is that our guests come in here and share their love of cricket and today

our lunchtime guest is the Prime Minister. Rishy Sunak, Prime Minister, welcome. Well, thanks for having me. How do you follow Joe Mangal? I mean you're following Joe Mangal. Well, you know, I was a Neighbors fan at the same time I was watching cricket. Well, there you go. He's still a bit of an icon, apparently,

Here's Joe. He'll walk around the ground. Yeah. Can I make one thing, I'm not a political journalist. So I'm not going to talk politics in this, if that's all right with you. I'm going to leave that to my news friends. That works fine for me. We'll talk cricket and whatever else comes. Let's talk cricket and everything else.

Right, so here you are. I mean, I've seen you here before watching cricket, and clearly you're a big cricket lover. I've seen you with Michael Vaughn. It's always rather nice when some well-known people get a bit gooey over seeing other people. You weren't meant to tell everyone that. but you can tell you're pleased to meet him for instance it's Michael Horn right yeah it's 2005 so yeah I haven't met him before

so that was that was amazing for me but then I love I don't get many days off in this job so and when I when I when I went or my previous job so when I did being able to come here and watch a bit of cricket is a perfect way for me to mind in a sport I absolutely loved and loved since I was a kid do you get a real feel free I mean I guess you have to be a bit cut off up there in the grandstand you but I mean do you get would you rather be out in in the Edrich stand or the tavern stand and, you know, being a bit noisy. You've got to sort of behave yourself in that.

Yeah, it's not quite the same watching these games in this job as I used to. I used to come here, I used to go to the Oval, and actually I grew up going to the county ground in Hampshire and Southampton where I'm from. Was that the old county ground? The old county ground, not the Ageas Bowl, yeah. It used to be, the old county ground used to be literally across the road from my dad's surgery down the road from my mum's pharmacy where we grew up. And it was by the Dell, actually, because I'm also a Saints football fan.

So they were both near each other. And I used to go along a lot with my cousin. And in those days, the whole thing was very intimate. And I don't know if it's like that anymore, actually. But when Australia would come to tour, you know, they'd come and play a game there. And I would go and take my, you know, those autographed bats. I don't know if people use anymore. And you could be able to sit there and talk to the players and by the boundary, they'd sign your bat.

And I've got one of my prize possessions from back then was the Australian. team who had toured there and it was it was all the moustache, like, you know, Murph Hughes. Oh, right back in that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And who was trying to think who else was in that side. Matthew Hayden and Mark War, that kind of era. That was your era. Yeah, well that was when

I was a kid and that, and I used to go with my cousin, as I said, you'd be able to get them to sign your bat, you'd be able to talk to them and they would warm up before they'd come on to bat in the nets, which anyone could just go and watch. And that was the intimacy which you could have with the game. And that's what I grew up with and that

Hampshire side was, you know, Mark Nicholas and Robin Smith and David Gower and, you know, that was my childhood. Gordon Greenwich might have hit me for six down by your father's place, I reckon. Oh, really? Yeah, well, I expect so. One of the better ones that we've had. And it wasn't very intimate when Malcolm Marshall was bowling there. No, I got the tail end of his

career because he did those last few years at Hampshire when I was essentially, that was when I was watching my cricket as a kid. So, and Hampshire were good around that time because I'm trying to think what was the name. You'll have to remember it. Was it Benson and Hedges?

It was one of those one day... Yeah, yeah. There was that and a direct cup and a Nat West. And the Nat West, but it was one of them that I think around that time, early 90s that we won. And that was that side. That was the side that grew up in. They won here. Yes, I remember.

Yeah, they did. It was at Lord's. But, you know, I got to see David Gower, got to see Robin Smith a lot, who was brilliant, Sean Udow. And you said Malcolm Marshall, who was one of the all-time grades, would be in definitely one of my... And you'd run on the field and play cricket and the... Well, you could do that then. that was the thing so you know like now obviously they're doing it

the kids are doing it here but anyone used to be able to do that back then so you just be able to go on to the you know past boundary and play a bit of cricket at lunchtime balls flying everywhere yeah it was that was how it was but I think you know that that intimacy was so special because that's why it helped me fall in love with the game and then years later you see Mark Lickliss commentating on telly or whatever and you're like gosh I used to

you know sign my bat at one point when I stood there and asked him to do it and that connection has always stayed with me. So what about this game? I mean, it's a funny old matches one. I've got to ask you about Basball, and we're all a bit confused by that, and everyone's talking about it.

But first of all, what about this morning session? Where do you reckon the game lies at the moment? Well, you know, it was a slow start, put it that way, and then, thankfully, we've got a couple of wickets at the end. I missed the last wicket when I was walking over here, which apparently was an incredible catch that Joe Root. Yeah, which I haven't seen it. I just saw that on my phone when I was walking over to come and see you.

But look, you know, I think our guys will no doubt feel that they can chase anything down, right? And the question we just need to move fast and get them all out. In terms of Bazboat, I have to say. Have you met him? Have you met Brendan McCollum? No, I haven't. But, you know, it was the most extraordinary year of cricket last year. I mean, how could you not fall in love with it and fall in love all over again with the English cricket team after what they did last year? I mean, you sound accommodated through it, the stats speak for themselves.

Andy did an incredible article at the end of last year where he just laid out just how exceptional it was, right? And he just went through stat after stat after stat of what an extraordinary year of cricket we'd all just enjoyed. So I think you've got to give it to the team for what they've done. And especially when it's essentially the same group of players with a different approach to playing and leadership.

I mean, you know, someone who has to also lead in a different way. It was just an interesting, you know, that is an interesting case study how you take the same group of people and get so much more out of it. Well, I was going to ask you about that, because I can't believe that some of the old heads in there. I might be wrong, but, you know, Jimmy Anderson's brought about a long time. They might not have thought this was the greatest thing in the world.

I mean, how would you take people like that with you if you are going into a completely new direction as they have done? I mean, look, they're really lucky that, you know, in Stokes, we've just got an, you know, an inspirational leader, right, who clearly is able to motivate all those people around him and lead by him. example on the field as well, right? And that, I think, that also helps, right? To be a lead by example, lead from the front. And I don't know what, you know, what is happening with them behind the scenes and how they're spending their time together to just build that sense of trust, I think, within the team. And I think that's probably what it comes down to. It's them just agreeing that there's a way that they're going to play, trusting each other

and supporting each other to do it, and just sticking with it. So you have to stick with, this is the point. I mean, because there's a lot of talk from here saying, oh, come on, what happened a couple of days ago, all those bats from getting out like that. You know, there's got to be moments we could just change course a bit or, I don't know, just take your foot off the gas a bit or whatever it might be. You've got to, you've just got to keep gunning down the same track. So, look, I think it's possible to, you know, still play basball, but within basball, there are periods in games where, you know, it requires, look, it requires an approach which

is just recognises the situation that you're in. And actually, look, it's a great compliment. the Bazball, that Australia responded in the way that they did, right? So let's just take that as a fact, right? They've had to adjust to it because they could see that it was something that they would need to accommodate. Now, when that was happening,

you know, probably, I agree with you and others and, you know, what Michael has said about, there was a period of time where they put everyone at the boundary, that probably was a time to just wait it out. And you see, Cameron Green's been doing that. Yes. You know, over the last, or however long he's been in for a little bit, right? And actually

the bowlers can't sustain that forever, and actually just waiting that out for a little bit is probably the sensible thing to do. That doesn't mean you're throwing basball out of the window. That just means for that period in the game where you have succeeded. That's the right approach.

But look, I'm not going to sit here a second guess these guys. They've provided the most extraordinary cricket for us over the last 12 months and I'm sure they were going to back themselves to skittle this lot out quickly and then chase down whatever we need to. And the ashes, I mean, you really grabbed particularly by the ashes.

You mentioned Michael Vaugh in 2005. I mean, that inspired so many people to get into the game. It was incredible. I mean, it was absolutely incredible because I was actually living abroad. I was in the middle of my degree, my master's degree in the states, but I was back home for the summer to work. And so I was back here. And so that summer is ingrained in my memory because of that. Because I was abroad, I remember where I was. I was coming back and I was doing this internship for my new job. And we spent the summer not just watching it, but I also, which was quite dangerous, discovered this, I think it was around that time that the spread betting had become a thing online. I had certainly never done it before. But then, so I was sitting there working on one side doing my, you know, investing finance job and on the other screen, it's quite helpful in those jobs, you have multiple screens. On the other screen, I was doing, you know, next wicket partnership, next wicket four, innings total. I just discovered this thing and it was great. So I had the

summer doing that as well. So it was, you know, that Edbrisden test, you know, KP at the end. And again, the Hampshire connection and I love watching Kevin Peterson play right and I mean he's he was brilliant and that that oval test it was yeah I mean that was to about a basball and exciting attacking cricket I mean how did you I mean I remember John Major

coming here and saying you used to have like a little ear piece into his ear during dull cabinet meetings he was chairing and just just keep a bit of an ear he hasn't told me that I um well yeah you did so I do the website ball by ball and that is actually that is mainly and then I

the highlights in the evening. So I do highlights in the evenings. I do the ball by ball on my, you know, the computer or during the day or on my phone. So I have that on all the time. The text ball by ball, they're like, which I absolutely love. I don't know whoever does that. They're so funny. And it's just like you feel. It's a community. You feel part of a community obviously. The way they do it. It's brilliant. And then I haven't watched as much of this match, actually, other than in the evening. First test, I did sneak away from my office a couple of times into the room next door to watch a bit, I have to be honest. We haven't established here what sort of cricketer you still are.

I mean, I think that I read a story retreating up to Yorkshire to go and play relatively recently. But what was your, what skill did you bring to the cricket matches that you're featuring? Well, I mean, look, I batted more than anything else. So that was the thing I would do and continue to try to do. I mean, I've seen, I have seen some video of you batting, actually. Have you? Yes, because you had the World Cup winners round. When I did.

And it was all right. I thought, actually, this fellow's had a bit. coaching, the risks in the right place. Well, thank you for that. I'm going to just... I'd like to think not, geez. No. No, I did.

That was actually literally, best day I've had in this job. It was that day. I mean, what, you know, how many chimes in your life do you get to a childhood dream, play cricket in your back garden with the England cricket team, which is what I got to do for half an hour. And it was brilliant. And, you know, these guys did extraordinarily well in the T20. To have them in to say, well done and thank you. It was great.

And then Chris Jordan was... bowling at me. Josh Butler, I'm going to say, Josh Butler was very, very nice, total gentleman. Sam Curen, on the other hand, was giving it quite a lot of Jip from wherever he was fielding at point or somewhere.

He's like his father, it's quite competitive. Yeah, I know. He was, I mean, I was not expecting a kind of heavy sledging in my back garden with all these kids around. But he was great, they were great, and no, I love doing that.

But yeah, no, batting is what I did. So with any particular success? I mean, can you reel off hundreds scored? No, no hundreds. Some half centuries here and there, probably 54, not out, I think, is my, probably the score that I was most proud of when I was playing at school. But I was trying to get back into it, which I've talked about a little bit, when last year, after the leadership contest in the summer finished, and I obviously was looking forward to

having a little bit more free time, I got a net in the garden at home in Yorkshire and a bowling machine, and I was going to start playing again, and I was going to try and join my local team. I was at a McMillan coffee morning in our village hall in Kirby Sixton up in North Yorkshire. And then I was chatting with them there saying, oh, I know I'm going to try and talk to some people locally who, you know, I need to try and see if I can play cricket with them now. I've got time. But they very quickly told me that I shouldn't assume I could walk into the side.

And actually it was very good side, which is true because I think they've won their league the last two years in a row. Start at the bottom. So, yeah, they were telling me I shouldn't assume. I can't, you know, having been chancellor, it was not a passport into their side. Which, given there's only about 100 people who live in our, surrounding area where we are anyway, it doesn't say much about their faith

in my cricket skills, but anyway. It's a lovely little village set up there as well. I mean, proper village cricket. Yeah, where we are in North Yorkshire, that is it. Yeah, it's village cricket everywhere. It's absolutely brilliant. I would, I mean, there's cricket pitch after cricket pitch in the most beautiful surroundings.

I've got the North York Moors and the Dales where I am. Well, one day. Yeah, so that is my plan. The closest I get to it now is, I used to nip off to the Oval in the evenings when I was Chancellor. I haven't done it as Prime Minister, but they were very kind at the Oval, and then I used to try and go there late at night. The Ken Barrington

sent the indoor cricket school. I'm going to play. Yeah, and then I'd do a net with my cousin, who I talked about earlier, so we would go and do a net there late at night, which was fun. So that is the closest I get to it now. Look, it does sound all very idyllic, but let's let's just go on to this ICEC

report that came out this week. Now, that show that racism, class-based discrimination, elitism, and sexism in cricket is widespread and deep-rooted in the game. What did you think when that landed?

Look, it was, for people who love cricket, it was obviously really hard to read. I mean, I'm sure it was, you know, you met it, and when you were just sad. The sport that you love, that I love that so many people love being described like that, for it to be brought to light that there were all these issues was just,

first of all, just really sad. and that was my first reaction to it and then I actually I've spent a little bit of morning talking to the team of the ECB and just talking to them about it and actually I think they've approached it in exactly the right way you have to remember it was the ECB

who commissioned this report right no one asked them to they did it off their own back because they really wanted to be proactive and addressing the concerns that people are raised I think they deserve credit for that and they're going about it in exactly the right way and we've offered obviously an unreserved apology and, you know, from the conversations I've had with, Richard and the team, they're

absolutely committed into fixing all the problems for this to be a reset moment for cricket. And all of us who love this game want it to be inclusive, open, accessible to absolutely everybody, to welcome people from all backgrounds and for it to be a place where everyone can feel respected and supported as they're playing it. That's what we all want. And, you know, I'm confident of the leadership of the cricketing family more broadly, not just the ECB, all share that ambition. So that's where we need to get.

And there are so many, I mean, this seems like everything. There's so many isms here, really. I mean, do you recognize that in cricket? I mean, is that your experience of cricket? I mean, does it reflect society? Look, it's not, it's, I haven't experienced that in cricket. But look, of course, I've experienced racism growing up in particular. And, of course, I know it exists.

How did you deal with that? Yeah, I mean, it's obviously, you know, it stings you in a way that very few other things do, right? And I'm in a job where I take criticism on a kind of daily, basis, hourly basis, minute by minute basis. But there's a, you know, racism, it just, it stings you, right? It does hurt in a way. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. The instances in your childhood that will stay with you, particularly actually one time, which I talked about in the past, where I was with my younger brother and sister out and about in Southampton and some, you know, people said a bunch of things. And I, you know, it felt doubly bad because I felt bad

about it, but I had my younger brother and sister with me. And that was all, I didn't want them to hear it and be exposed to it. So it was really helpful. but you know one thing I take comfort from is I think the things that happened to me when I was a kid I think they wouldn't happen to my kids today because I think we've just made incredible progress as a country and we should be proud of that and that this report comes out of course there's always going to be pockets where we have a not doing as well as we want to and we should always strive for perfection right and we should strive to be better but look I'm sitting here as the first British Asian Prime Minister that our country has had.

You know, look at our, you know, World Cup winning team and, you know, Owen Morgan. There was that lovely story where Owen Morgan, I think, was having a conversation with Al-Rashid about, you know, when we were saying, oh, do we have the luck of the Irish with us or whatever, and Al-Rishie was, I think we had Al-R on our side. And, you know, that's our, that is modern Britain, right? Like, that is our country. So I think we should take a moment to celebrate the progress we've made over the past half century in dealing with these things.

but recognise that there is no place for racism or sexism or anything else in our society, and where we find it, we should stamp it out and make all the improvements that are necessary and strive for ever greater perfection. The question of cricket in state schools is clearly an issue. And I remember John Major actually giving a speech a few years ago now, in which he kind of apologised, really, for the policy at the time, the government policy, in selling off the playing fields. I mean, they're gone.

How do you get them back? How do we get cricket played in state schools when the grounds have now blocks of flats on them? Yeah, so that is actually one of the things that I was talking about with the team this morning and we as a government have put more money into, you know, school sports and the 600 million over the next couple of years. The government typically doesn't dictate what sports schools should play,

but actually after meeting the LIMS's recently, you know, we did support their campaign to make sure that girls had access to the same sports as boys as well as the minimum amount of sport that we want all schools to do. But look, I want to see cricket be inclusive and open to everybody. And we clearly need to, I don't want to preempt what the ECB will respond as they're going through the recommendations in the report. Will you be monitoring that?

I mean, I use the government going to be looking at what they do. And it's also because I love this sport. And I think it's a very special part of our country and our society. And I want to see it be successful and supported. So just from a personal perspective, I care about this. but I think there are really great examples of programs that are broadening access to cricket and I talked about when I used to go to the Oval

actually when I was there I met this incredible group of people from the ACE program and I hadn't heard about them before but they were all training next to me and then I learned about that and I think it's Surrey County Cricket Club who had supported that and set that all up

and I spent some time after we're playing talking to the kids right and that program is doing incredible things, not just bringing people from black communities into cricket and giving them this incredible sense of purpose for their lives when you talk to them that was so evident and doing wonders for them. But also that program is training coaches from that background as well. And they're all now around the country, almost all county clubs have a coach like that, which is great because if you have that diversity in coaching, that's important as well.

So there's an example of something that's working really well. But do we want to keep doing more and keep broadening access so people from all back backgrounds can enjoy this incredible sport. Yes, absolutely. It seems a shame that this programme's necessary, really. Yeah, look, but if they are, we should do them, right? And it's good that we are, and they're working. And that, and then we just need to see more of that. But I think, look, I don't want to preempt, you know, because we've got three months now, or the ECB have got three months to work through the recommendations. They want to take the time to do it properly. And I know they're going to do that. And we in government will play our part as well, not just because

I love cricket, because it's the right thing to do, but it's an important part of our country and making sure that the sport works and the way we want it to. It's getting those schools to play, isn't it? I mean, if there aren't the playing fields, how do you get? Yeah, look, there's lots of different ways you can get into cricket.

And I think one of, I mean, look, I'm lucky where I am in North Yorkshire in a sense, where we have lots of open space. And I spend a lot of my time as a constituency MP, you know, going to support cricket camps in the summer or all the holidays, you know, indoor, outdoor, and talking to schools about it as well. And we're lucky in that sense.

But we need to make sure that it's accessible for everyone, right? And that's something that we just need to work through. And just the last one on that, television, there are a few games on BBC television now, live. And just when I talk about free-to-air, I don't necessarily mean just BBC, because you'll have watched 2005 on Channel 4. So it's a question of just being accessible. And there are some listed events, aren't there? I mean, the Wimbledon final, the Grand National and so on.

There's always talk about the Lord's Test match maybe being available for everyone to watch. I mean, is that something that you would support and being able to have just one test match a year just to help people connect to the sport? You know, I'd probably be careful not to make policy live on that. Well, you're very free to. No, no, no, no.

I know this is a problem when the five other sports will then queue up and demand the same thing. But, you know, that's an interesting question. Let me put it that way. I'll go and reflect on that. I'll go and reflect. Yeah, but look, I grew up watching, I grew up watching it on,

yeah, we didn't have Sky. I was younger and it was on BBC and that's why I grew up watching and all those I can't remember who was it who was it used to do that key test was it? Oh Tony Greg Tony Greg yeah and then I think I thought

Jeffrey Boycott did it at some point by Jeffrey I all had a go yeah it was like that was my childhood right you'd kind of tune in and do that and listening to all of you guys in in the car my dad was an obsessive and so we had that on as well and I was saying I follow it

you know the ball by ball on the website so I think that there's And I don't feel I'm missing out almost. You know, when I have that on during my work day, as I said, they do such a good job of you're part of this community of cricket lovers. You're following it ball by ball. Even though I can't watch it, I feel like I'm part of the action. Last question on this, I promise.

But you're your Yorkshire MP, and you're obviously very aware of what's been happening aheadingly. I mean, what are your thoughts on that and how it's been handled? Yeah, look, well, I think in a nutshell, it kind of echoes this conversation that we've been having already. And I'm glad they're taking all the steps that they were meant to and working through it in the same way. But you can just go back to what I said before, whether it's Yorkshire, whether it's a country, we want cricket to be a sport that is inclusive, that's open to war, that respects and support people people when they're in it because it's something that we all want to be able to celebrate and view as an incredibly positive thing, right? Because it's transforming people's lives, it's giving people so much enjoyment and we all want to succeed. And I'm glad they're doing all the things that they should be.

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The TMS podcast. Watch highlights of every day of every test on IPlayer. We have about 10 minutes till the bell goes and then 50 minutes. I know. It flies in here. You're used to these little sound bite interviews, I guess, I guess. I won't tell your political journalist friends that that's what you say. Well, I think this, I think.

you'll find this is the longest uninterrupted live interview on the radio I think this is the longest this might well be the longest interview I've ever done well we haven't finished yet but there's no there's no weather forecast or travel news here

I'm afraid there's no there's no time to take your breath this is I have just the most extraordinary place to watch cricket from us just take a moment having never been in this commentary box before I mean this is incredible did you imagine it would be like this no I didn't know I didn't know what I imagined actually but I think I just quite relaxed sitting next to you sitting in here doing this

but this is I mean what of you it's a very relaxed form of I mean it's a bit different today because you've got a lot of people in here I wouldn't want to be seen here I apologize that I don't travel lightly anymore unfortunately in this job no have you got used to all of that

if someone used to toddle down and on the county ground at Southampton and play critically on the outfield I mean to have all this entourage with you now it's not quite but no yeah no look it's the job and there's so many privileges that come with the job too right

so that that's just life. But I've got a couple of my mates with me today, Charlie and Dave, and I haven't seen them in months. I don't think I've seen them since I've had this job, but, right, to be honest. So it's a chance for us to spend some time together. And I was out with my cousin at the Saints watching them earlier this season when they sadly got relegated.

But I miss out a lot. My family were all at the Aegeas Bowl for, I think South Africa were there. Was it last season? Like my entire extended family were all there together, cousins, aunts, uncles. And I missed out, and they were. send me lots of pictures, but yeah, no, that's... Well, let's get to some more, not have to sit in the box. Why did you get into politics?

Because it seems to me to be right, or rough and tumble, and I'm making the point again, we're not going to talk about, you know, what's going on in the political world at the moment? But what makes you tick in that? What do you get out of the bruising life of being a prime minister? I didn't think I could make it as a cricket commentator. I'm just looking at your score sheet here. I used to do that as well.

I used to do that in those books, yeah. This is, I used to love doing it. If I'm honest, you mustn't give too much the game away. You don't want policy, not giving away on the air. This is like a master sheet that Andy prepares. So it's just got every, if you look at every little square, it's like an A4 sheet of paper. Oh, wow. Okay. But it's got all the numbers.

All the numbers on here for what people have scored recently. Shirt numbers, quite crucial. Right. Because they are quite a long way away. Yeah, a long way off. So that helps you're a little bit. I'm looking at my team and figuring out what our version of this is. I need, I get everything I need to know.

on one two double a four page well it is yes at least it's on a four paper but for well I used to do because I thought it was a score sheet when I saw it because I used to do that and I used to thoroughly enjoy doing it's the old-fashioned book yeah the books I mean I really enjoyed doing well the systems are all different but no you asked

why why did you like what do you get a kick out of for being taking that's a bruising it is yeah no look it is I originally got into it because of my mum and dad so my dad was a GP my mom was a pharmacist where I grew up and they did the same thing in the same place decades and I worked for my mom and I saw firsthand the impact they had on our community and

wherever we'd be out and about shopping at you know as for the weekend or whatever people would come up and say thank you to them and when I was working for my mom I'd deliver prescriptions to patients who couldn't come in and get them and they would always take the time to say oh you're mrs soon exan you're dr soon exan this is what they did for me or my parents or grandparents or my kids and I just thought that was incredible that as an individual two of them they could have such an impact on a community around them. And that's why I wanted to be an MP, because I thought I could do the same thing. And hopefully I am doing that in North Yorkshire, where I am. Obviously, doing this job is slightly different because you're doing that on a bigger scale.

But ultimately, it's the same thing that motivates me. When I took this job, I knew it wasn't going to be easy, right? Everyone could see that. It's like the worst possible in-tray for a new job that anyone could imagine. Everyone can see the circumstances are challenging. But I thought At the time, I was the right person to do it, and I believe strongly in service, and I thought it was kind of my duty to go and give it everything I could and do the best of it. I mean, do you take, you were dishy Rishi not so long ago, and now it's kind of, I mean, it's sort of, you know, you're saying I'm not that Dishy anymore. Well, I'm not surprisingly Dishy, Rishie, but you know what I mean?

It's kind of the needle has swung back into the direction, but I guess that's political life. You know, that's life, right? Like I'm the same person, right? I'm the same person I was when I was Chancellor and I stood up and announced a furlough scheme and trying to get the country through the pandemic and the way that I did. I'm the same person now that I was then, right?

I haven't changed. I'm doing the things that I believe are right. And they're not always going to be popular, right? But that's the type of person I am. I'm doing this because I care deeply about our country and I want to make sure that I do the things that will mean that we can look forward to a better future and our kids and our grandkids.

and in the short term sometimes that does mean things that doing things that are difficult that are tough that aren't always popular but I'm thick-skinned enough to get through that because I believe that I'm doing what I think is right and I'm focused on doing the right thing long term for our country and you get the criticism and that's part of the job

but I mean for the majority of our listeners life's tough at the moment yeah and you know it's how do you how do you wear that pressure do you take it home oh no gosh yeah Massively. I'm very lucky. I've got, you know, my family are incredibly supportive. But yeah, no, gosh, I do. And I did as Chancellor as well, because, you know, thankfully it didn't happen in the end, but people were forecasting

millions of millions of people to lose their jobs, right? And that honestly was my responsibility then. And I said at the time, that weighed very heavily. And right now that it weighs heavily on me, right? When we have inflation at the levels that it's at, and that is having an impact on people's, you know, pay packets, their budgets, and what they can afford to spend time on what they can do for their kids. Of course that weighs heavily on me. It's my responsibility to fix it and make the situation better. And, you know, unfortunately, it's going to take a little bit of time for us to do that. It means I have to do some things, as I said, that don't always, people don't always love.

But they're the right long-term things to help everybody because that's what I want to do, right? I want everyone to feel confident and optimistic about the future, to have the peace of mind that things are going to be better and that we're on their side as we do it. And you know, you talked about cost of living. one of the big things we did was we decided to tax the winful profits of energy companies and use some of that money or all of that money to help pay around half of a typical family's energy bill. That was an intervention almost on the scale of furlough in how much support that was providing for families.

Is that solving all the problems? Of course it isn't. But hopefully it speaks to my desire to try and help where we can. What about the pressure on you succeeding now as Prime Minister, if we say you're former boss? I mean, the image of politicians, should we say? Do you think that's being damaged recently? And do you feel that?

You know, look, politics, I said it when I first got the job, actually, I think. I really wanted to restore trust in politics, because more generally I could see that people were frustrated and upset. And part of my job is to restore trust. And there's lots of different ways you can do that. I mean, it's obviously acting with integrity, which I try and do, doing the right thing and hopefully people seeing that

but also just doing the things that you say and I think I get a lot of focus now on these five priorities that I sat at the beginning of the year but I did it very deliberately I knew we weren't going to be easy but I just thought look I'm not going to waffle around and have some kind of generic sounding language

that you know I want a stronger this or better that I want to be really specific here are the things that I want to do because I think they're the right things I think they're the country's priorities and everyone can then hold me accountable for how well I'm doing and you know am I doing enough to deliver on them I think that's how you restore trust someone saying this is what I'm going to do for you can work hard to do it and then you can judge whether

I've done a good enough job at the end of it or not yeah but that has a tough challenge to to restore trust in politicians isn't it now yeah I look at the well that's you know I what I would say is you know the vast majority of people who enter public service do it because they care right they care about making their community and their country a better place right and like in every profession right in every walk of life right there's always things that are not performing in the way that you would like that don't always showcase that profession in the best light i think that politics is is not unique to that when it happens in every part of aspect of our life and we were talking about it earlier when we were to cricket right but you know

my job as an individual and someone who leads a government is to try and set an example right how we conduct ourselves yeah and how we deliver for people and that's what i'm i mean that's all i can focus on ultimately right i've said i'm good this is what i'm going to do i'm focused and working very hard to do it and you know then time and history will be the judge i'll bring a cricketing analogy into it. You don't strike me as being a bas-balling politician. I mean, I think more front-front, yes. A bit of a Rahul Dravid maybe. Oh, gosh, that is very impressive. Yeah, he's literally probably my favorite, yeah. Is he my favorite cricketers? Yeah. Well, do you feel you're a dravid? Yeah, I'm not going to say that, right? I mean, if only. No, he's one of my

favorite cricketers. Right. Absolutely one of my favorite cricketers. Why? Technique, because I love his technique. I I love watching him play. I love watching him play. And personality-wise. I just thought he was incredibly humble, very understated for being such an incredible player. But I loved his technique. I loved watching him play.

Yeah. Any others? Who else would he put on your list of... Of people to watch? I mean, of that side. I was obviously Tendulka was also part of that side. I loved watching him. I was in India in, I was in India in 2008.

Whenever the bomb or the terrorist attack in India happened. That was eight, yes. Yeah. And then England had got. we were there yeah were you there England had gone away I was there for a friend's wedding and then England decided to come back and play another test at Chennai which I was at and it was very good of them to do it meant an enormous amount to to India that they had done that and and Tendulk it was it was one of the highest run chase

I can't remember that you'll remember that than me but Tendulka scored as a massive yeah and it was a huge run chase that so sadly we lost in Dea one but that um you know that was it was to see him batting like that was great but Look, I mean, I, I mean, Joe Root is incredible. I talked about KP. I grew up watching Robin Smith, who I actually, you know, that was, he was a Hampshire star. He played for England. Malcolm Marshall, we've talked about.

So, look, I'm lucky I've been able to see lots of these players. Do you, do you have within you that sort of that Indian, mad passion, the way they support, and absolutely go quite ballistic over cricket? I mean, is that, do you have that? I can express it less than this job. So put it that way. Yeah, I mean, look, before I had this job, and if I'd be at matches, then yes, right? I mean, of course I would do that, right?

I'm a passionate sports fan. Sport is unlike other things, right? I mean, I think actually when we got the first wicket, I was probably, like, standing up, and then I realized, oh, gosh, and I was, like, jeering everywhere, and then I kind of realized I had to probably sit back down again. But, like, that is what sport does. So if I'm, you know, watching Southampton play or watching England play, then, yeah, that is how ordinarily I would be in the new job.

A bit more restrained. You've brought with you, Prime Minister, a wonderful cake. I don't know if that's... My gosh, I've seen who's turned up. That's one of your creations. But I can just see the word Ruth on it, and it's got a red rosette. And I can see Andrew Strauss, a grinning just down to the... Good afternoon, Prime Minister.

Andrew, how are you? Oh, my gosh, this day just gets better and better. Stop. I can't take full credit for the cake. Right. So Lisa in my office, who's incredible, runs my life, is our master baker. So she's responsible for the cake. am responsible for the icing though she thought i could be trusted enough to do the i did the icing very

neat if you know might be saying oh there we go um so it's not bad actually so that is that is the genesis of the cake what tool did you use for that i mean a proper one of those palette palette thing but then just there's a there's a there's a squidgy pen for the writing yeah i don't know what they're called i'm not you did the writing as well yeah all right don't be so skeptical that's good i couldn't ice a cake it'd be a disaster i'd say it's the first one i've done in a long time since i was doing it with my kids when they were my two girls were little. But no, so Lisa's response from the cake. But the reason I've done this is very deliberate and very specific. So every day as Prime Minister, I get to award someone what's called a Points of Light Award. And it recognises someone in our country whose service is an

inspiration to other people. And it's a lovely, lovely tradition. And it's one of my favourite parts of this job. And Andrew has inspired so many of us on the cricket pitch, inspired me, and not many people who get to say they've won Asher Series at home and abroad, as well as being incredible field, incredible batsman. I got to meet Andrew earlier this year, and it was an enormous privilege to talk to him then. But actually, you know, what I wanted to do today was recognize Andrew's service in a different way. And I think we're all familiar with what his family's been through,

but how they've turned that into a positive experience where they're raising awareness of lung cancer and also the work that the foundation does, supporting families who are facing a bereavement is just extraordinary and it was a privilege to talk to Andrew earlier this year and learn a little bit more about all of that and also i couldn't be here for red for Ruth day but in honor of Andrew and all his family's work i not only wanted to bring him a red velvet red for Ruth cake that's what the cake is but also award Andrew my points of light award for today there you are Andrew thank you so much that is

Honestly, I'm completely blown away. It's a great honor to receive this, but really I'm receiving it on behalf of Ines, the CEO of the Foundation, or the team red who do all the hard work. I just turn up here and wear a red suit. But also, of course, for the people that we're supporting, those families that are going to be such a tough time

dealing with the prospect of bereavement. So really, I'm blown away. It's so honored. I'm looking forward to eating your cake. I'll give it a mark out of 10. I look forward to carving it. I know you need a proper knife of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which at least it did not send me with.

But yeah, you'll enjoy it. Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure and a privilege. Thank you. There you go. Well done. And Prime Minister has been a pleasure for met you too.

And thank you for coming for talking about all sorts of things. Yeah, the longest interview, I'm afraid, on the radio, it'll be subjected to your suspect for a while. But thank you for coming his test match. If Nick Robinson or someone else now gives me some jib, you'll have to deal with that. So there we go. It just smashed right into the World Trade Center.

It was a big, big explosion of planes. People who knew me. A story about lies. You used a terrorist attack to run away from your mess and fake your own death. And love. Are you proposing to me? In the face of death. I'm Paul.

I'm six weeks in a chemo. And I have no eyebrows. An original drama for BBC sounds. Yeah, something's up. Starring Rosamie. Pike and Hugh Lurie. Happy death anniversary. People who knew me.

Listen on BBC Sounds.