Test Match Special - Voices of the World: Jim Maxwell

Episode Date: November 17, 2020

Australian broadcasting icon Jim Maxwell talks through his remarkable career with Jonathan Agnew, discussing his favourite TMS memories and how he first got behind the microphone.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. Hello, this is Jonathan Agnew, bringing you the first of a special series of podcasts from Test Match Special. Over the years we've been fortunate to work with some of the best broadcasters in the world.

As their respective countries have played England, they've joined the TMS team to become colleagues to us on air and for millions of listeners, companions and friends through the English summer and, of course, during overseas tours. We may know all their iconic moments of commentary and huge contributions to Test Match Special. But how much do we know about how they got on our airwaves and how their love of cricket began? Well, during the pandemic, we haven't been able to hear much from some of these great friends, but now is our chance. Where else can we start? We're our old adversary from Australia, Jim Maxwell, who's been a regular on Test Match Special for nearly 40 years and is one of our most popular commentators. Well, I'll give him a call at home in Sydney to see how he's getting on.

I think we better explain just for starters what that chirping noise is at the background, Jim. Ah, yes. Well, that's Marjorie and Albert, our two budgets are in a cage about 20 feet away. So if you hear them say anything, they're probably getting annoyed with me for talking too loudly. They're not going to get amorous, are they? They'd get quite amorous, actually, but so far there's been no result. You know, unlike Vera Coley's marriage, there's nothing imminent at this stage. But you never know.

If it happens, we'll have a few more mouths to feed. Isn't it funny that here we are. We broadcast so much from our homes now. I'm surrounded by Spaniels, and you've got your budgies in the background as well. If people only knew, well, they do now. well they do i mean how many how many spanials have you got there now we're on three yes they're all lying around here only occasionally they get excitable

but generally they're just lying lying restfully just uh listening listening to us chatting away on these lovely old to when did you did you play cricket jim i never really got that out of you before um well i played from yes i did i played out after a fashion at school and uh i played some club cricket after that and I had the good fortune to come to England in 1972 with a team called the Australian Old Collegians which was a group of cricketers who were pretty good we had one state player and a lot of

what you would know as first grade premier cricket players in the team and we I was I was very young at the time and it was a puny amateur thing organized by this organization called the Australian Old Collegians and it was the last of their world tours as turned out. We were away for about three and a half four months. We played 90 games. We played in Honolulu, America, Canada, Bermuda. We were based in London for a while and then traveled around and we ended up playing cricket in Geneva, would you believe? And it was an extraordinary time to be traveling around because alongside us was a far more famous team, the Australian team of 72 in England.

And this was the way things were in those days. We were all made, and there were over 20 of us in the tour party, honorary members at Lords. So there we were sitting in the pavilion at Lords when Bob Massey took those 16 wickets You were there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Up again comes Massey, balls, and Smith is out. Court, part of square leg. Court Edwards, he flipped to the full length in the swinger.

So there were you. So did you have any, if people who you were playing with then, Jim, on that tour, if they knew that one of their party would become the voice of Australian cricket, would they be a bit surprised? they probably would have laughed I think I was one of the youngest in the side

it might have been a bit of an upstart I could bat a bit but I usually threw it away aiming for somewhere in the pavilion there are a couple of things I do remember about batting on that

too because we did play against some well we certainly played on some very good grounds including we played at Arundel we played at the Oval and we played at Swansea and I can remember hitting

a senior Don Shepard shall we say in 1972 for a couple of sixes You didn't get six though like Gary? No I didn't hit one down to Bill Edwards shot down the road like Sobers did with the sixth one from Nash no but oh

what an experience that was I stayed on in England and went back to London and went back to London and played a bit at club cricket at Hampstead for a while and then came home and the day I came home you know talk about the time and place my mother said oh I cut this out of the paper the other day

that job of the ABC you went for some years ago it came up again so I was you know in September 1972 I applied for the job and by I think March 8 baby April of 1st finally enough The next year, I was starting my job as a specialist trainee sport in the ABC. Based on what experience, Jim? How did they, or why do they take you on, do you think? That's an interesting question.

I think it was a combination of a rough enough knowledge of this and that. But the last leg of the process of going for the job was to sit at the SCG up in the noble stand there with a taped recorder during what was the Australia-Pakistan test match and do 20 minutes of commentary. And I think that got me over the line.

I only found out many years later who the other people were who were competing for the job against me. We were down two of three people and one of them was someone who you would have met subsequently David Morrow. But

I never found that out until about 20 years later. It was quite extraordinary. So I was told by the bloke who ran sport that the audition at the cricket got you over the line. And had you done it before? Was that your first? How did you sat at home and watched telly or whatever

and just tried to just comment on cricket? Or was that your first go? No, no. I'd done a bit of rehearsing. And in fact, between the time I applied for the job and got it, I went in January of 1973 with my old school side to New Zealand to play cricket. And one of the players in the team was Peter Mears, who had preceded me at the ABC as a trainee. In fact, when I was at school, I had applied for this trainee job, and he got it.

He was a little bit older than me, and he was a very good all-round sportsman. And so he gave me a few tips. I knew at that stage that I was going for this audition when I got home so he gave me a few clues this is how McGilray would do it da da da da da da da

so that certainly helped the audition he said McGilray is always talking to me about the importance of the pause in broadcasting cricket let the crowd take over from you when you've got a crowd

when the game has just begun and they're looking for a run there's just one voice for the cricket so they say he's everything to cricket cricket's everything

for him you know the game is not the same without McGillray from a lucky cover drive the one that brings the crowd alive So Alan McGilver, there you go, that's the man, and I know, because we've sat and talked many times about that, I mean, the influence, well, first of all, I suppose just the voice as a young man growing up and just listening to cricket, as he would have done, before then actually getting involved in the industry yourself, but he'd have been the man who was, someone who you admired, respected, and as you say, sort of followed, I suppose. I think I learned more about the game of cricket and the technique of broadcasting by sitting behind him in the commentary box.

I was fortunate enough that he was based here in Sydney when I joined. And this is April, right, 1973. Well, by December, I'd already been given the opportunity to broadcast cricket, which was a pretty quick. introduction given that as a trainee basically you did the muggins jobs of this and that and helping out and going down to the bank to cash a check for the boss or heading off to david jones to collect his bread and doing doing all sorts of odd jobs without really doing any more than observing the better broadcasters do their job so um i i was very fortunate to fall in behind me gilvray and be influenced by the way

he did it. And his line lives with me forever because you had to work on him a bit to get much out of him. He didn't always solicit information and he said in this game, broadcasting, particularly cricket, you

copy technique and make your own style. So that's kind of lived with me and he did have a very good technique. And the thing about McGilveray, of course, is that when you heard his voice, it was unmistakably Alan McGilbray.

Ben Chappell to Amos. Bittley, bold him, a good one, a slow one whipping back on him. He may have touched it, I don't think so. I think it came straight through. It was either a touch or the bat or the pad, but it went in, and that was the important thing. When I was in boarding school, I used to listen to those series back in the 60s. And as much as I admired, the colour, the lyricism of

John Alitt and the other commentators, it was McGilbray who you relied upon to tell you about what the heck was happening in the game. He read the game beautifully and that stuck in my mind through all those formative years

up towards the time I worked with him. So, yeah, he was a huge influence, huge influence. Both him again. He swings into this and gets it caught. He's caught by Gow, just forward of square, trying to swing that over the end field. He didn't get hold of it, hitting across the line, and it went straight to Gaw in front of Square, and Yallop is out for 121.

Isn't that great advice? I haven't heard that line before, but technique, because it is, and listeners might not understand, there is definitely a technique to commentating, and everyone who's good at it does, has that basic technique the same sort of a way, but then, You know, you do interpret and introduce your own style to doing it. I mean, you couldn't get much more different than Henry Blufelt, I suppose, and Alan McGilveray. And yet, Henry's technique was very, very rock-solid.

The bowler running in and so on, absolute total focus on the ball being bowled. Yeah, I mean, there are two spots, aren't there? There's the action and the non-action. So make sure you get the action right and describe the moment, and then you work out the rest of it. But really, there was a more formality to the broadcasting of it, probably less humor, less sense of fun than has been developed. And I have to say that working with the BBC in 1983 when I came over for the World Cup

made me realize that it's not all about the facts. It's a broadcast and you need to embellish it with a narrative, but it has anecdotes, the colour, looking away to the crowd, as Blofeld was so good at. Yeah, you know the ropes as well as I do, but yeah,

I was brought up in a very disciplined, formal structure of cricket broadcasting where you were too frightened to open your mouth too often because you dare and put your foot in it. Now, of course, a lot of the broadcasts about, oh, well, I'll have to. a crack at something here. I might put my foot in my mouth, but I'll have a lot of fun trying

to take it out too. I think you're absolutely right because certainly my early years were, I suppose I was just about the crossover because I was, what, 10 years behind you. So the crossover was happening, led in our case, of course, by Brian Johnston. So he was that natural conversational companion on the radio. So he was very much of that style. But there's still a formality about the others and certainly the way that Trevor Bailey and Fred Truman summarized in those days was still along that formal route, although he could always wind Fred up a bit. Which one do you prefer? Do you prefer that the sort of the formal structured style,

or do you like the looser way of doing it? I like the slightly looser style as long as you are on the moment. because you know what it's like in a game of cricket. It kind of ebbs and flows and has dull stretches where you can go off on a tangent and talk about all sorts of things. But there are still moments in the game and you've had quite a few of those recently

with Headingley and the World Cup final. We've got to be on the game. You've just got to try and nail exactly what's happening out there and don't get distracted by taking the conversation to a place that's not relevant to where you are. are at the moment. And in comes Pat Cummins from the far-rendy. Bowles to Stokes, who hammers it for four.

And stands there with a bat raised. I can't believe we've seen that. I think it's a nice combination. And we're both very fortunate to have had people alongside us. And I might say, Jeffrey Boycott's one of those I really enjoyed working with. I think it's very important from the listeners' viewpoint to have an expert that's got an opinion and that's why you'll be interested in this

Ian Chappell is going to be working on ABC radio this summer brilliant well that's brilliant news well it feels as long as you can shut him up well it won't be able to the commercial breaks that he's been used to that's for sure it's funny though I mean there's Geoffrey Boycott and

Ian Chappell and I dare say I'm putting words in your mouth so correctly if I'm wrong but Ian Chappell for me growing up was that Aussie who I just could couldn't stand. You've talked about 972. There he was. The Aussie captain is there at Slip, is chewing his gum, is sledging away. And I thought, I'd meet him, of course. I'd alone work with him.

It'd alone go to his house and all that sort of stuff. And I suspect that Geoffrey Boycott was a sort of thorn in the side of you when you thought, Jeffrey Boycott is boring, he's a blocker. And then doing this job, you suddenly meet these people, and they become proper friends. It's all pinch yourself at times, don't you? This was the person who you were watching as a kid.

And now there you are. He's your mate. Yeah, well, I've gone the full circle with Chappell. When I started, he was still playing, and I was interviewing him, and then he retired, and here and there I used to bump into him, and then we've turned a full circle here with Ian working on the ABC because his grandfather, Victor Richardson, was one of the voices of the game prior to television,

way back after the war in the early 50s with Alan McGilvray and the England captain Arthur Gilligan. They were the three big voices on ABC Radio in that period. And of course, he remembers well listening to his grandfather, who was broadcasting at the time,

I think, in Mady's debut as a test player in 1968. So it's an interesting a family connection there with voices because Rick Richardson went back to the days of the synthetic tests of course which were the most extraordinary creation of ABC management in the 30s when you couldn't get a decent shortwave signal from England

and they had to make it all up with the bunk of the pencil on the block of wood and the effects brought up on a needle dropped on a record and all that sort of stuff to convince everyone that what they were doing wasn't a real broadcast in the sense of them being at the ground because it was so realistic. It's a very ingenious scheme, as you'll see, for the atmosphere of a broadcast from the ground is retained

although the transmission is made in Australia on minute-to-minute information supplied by cable. And you'll be amused by the use of the commentator's pencil to denote bat-meeting ball at the right moment in his commentary. I'm going to Bradman. It's a short ball. moves back and falls fiercely past square leg. Hutton running around from deep fine leg has no chance

as the ball goes under the ropes for another four. That's poor more to Bradman, taking his score to 97, a typical Bradman shot, giving the fields no chance of saving the boundary. All I get was a bit of paper, which said B4F, and then they had to work out from that how Bradman hit a four of Farns, that sort of thing. They just created it all. So the imagination that those chaps had to pull it together

was quite extraordinary. It must have been exhausting because it was during the night as well. It was and they're all dressed up. The whole thing was made up and it was so genuine that they decided to let everyone know that in fact this is how they did it. Farns turns, runs in, volley to Bradman. It's ball well pitch.

Brabman moves forward, drives. Continent cover tries to cut it off, is beaten by the pace of the ball, and it races away for another four. Very ingenious, isn't it? I'll tell you what, always really excites me, Jim. I'll be interested on your thoughts

of this working vice versa, if you like. Although it's slightly different. I'll explain why, but I love walking to that ABC box and commentating on ABC in Australia. Because... Well, it's different, but the difference between the two is that because when I do that I'm talking exclusively to Australia

or more or less anyway and I sort of become a slightly different person on the BBC you're the correspondent and you've got to try and be a little bit more serious I suppose but I love working on the ABC because you can just you lose all that then you just go out there and have a bit of fun and I wonder how you find TMS the only difference is of course that the ABC does take our feed so but I do wonder if you're a slightly different animal on test match special than you are when you're just at home commentating MCG or SCG or something. Historically, working on test match special, I think if I'm deeply analytical of the way

I broadcast cricket, it changed me a lot. It may be realized that it is a game, and I have the confidence sitting alongside. whoever it was, to offer an opinion, to have an exchange in the way that I never did before because I felt a little intimidated and overawed by, well, McGilvray to a large extent, but Lindsay has it. I mean, it was tough working with him, not because he wasn't friendly, but because he played in an era I'd never seen. He was obviously a very schoolful player and excellent captain and all those things.

So there was a sense of reverence, I suppose, about those that were older than when I started. And as I grew in my confidence about doing the broadcast, I realized that I didn't have to be taking it seriously all the time. And the people who helped me enormously in that regard, as time went on, were, of course, Kerry O'Keefe and to an extent of Peter Roebuck. But I think a more relaxed style came about because of the influence of Test Match special. I'm going to get a little help. You want a bit of help? Yes, please, Jim.

Okay, we'll do it. It could be the last one of the series. We'll do it, Jim. This will be a unique duet. You ready? But Radio 4 Longwave listeners are leaving us briefly. The Shipping Forecast. It's my favourite part of the day.

When you're the visitor and you walk into the home broadcasting box, if you like, there's a bit of pressure on, isn't there, don't you think? Because you are talking to a, I mean, people here know you now like the back of your hand and hopefully people in Australia feel the same way about me. but you ask to start with you are that you are a bit of a visitor don't you think there's a bit of pressure on to get it right yes there is but it's hard to actually to explain this but i also think uh i think my my broadcast probably changed uh since i had a stroke in um you know 2016 and i think well my attitude to life has probably changed a bit.

So I'm I won't say I'm carefree but I'm not as concerned as much about what I say in terms of making a mistake than I was before.

You have to go through this period of your life if it happens where all of a sudden you have a sense of your mortality. It's very hard to explain but I think I think that's changed me to an extent. I haven't changed me for the worse in terms of the broadcast

and the reception I might get because of my delivery and attitude. But yeah, look, I think my friends tell me, and I've got to believe some of them, I get joshed by all your friends, don't you? Yeah. They keep saying to me, you know, broadcasting sounds better now. than it ever did when I hinted them

it's about time I gave away to some of these young books oh no no no don't do that they'll be right you're a cricket broadcaster think of Brian Johnson

he was still doing it at 80 or something how did you I mean the stroke was clearly a dreadful thing to happen to anybody or awful and you obviously see what a stroke does to people

but yet on the other hand you've still got your voice and so often The voice clearly is what's affected and possibly forever by the result of a stroke. And yet you've still got your delivery. I mean, do you, on the one hand, clearly curse the ill fortune of having a stroke which is probably for instance you playing your golf now that you loved and so on. But you can still speak properly and he still sound just about the same old gym.

Hazelwood comes in, Overton's out. Oh, it's out. How is that? That's out. He's out. reviewing it though. Overton's going to review it so this game is not all over yet. It's missed the edge of the bat.

And if it's clipping the bells, that'll be enough for Australia to have taken this final weekend. We're looking at the buttons now and it's hitting. It's out and it's all over. Australia have won this game by 185 runs. They're all hugger-mugger out there. delighted to have retained the ashes and what has been an extraordinary campaign. Yeah, well, it's given me a sort of a sense of purpose, I suppose,

the fact that I've been able to keep doing what I've done for so long. So I've been fortunate in that regard. I went to a speech therapist while I was in rehab from the stroke. And after about four or five sessions, she said, And, well, I can't do any more for you. I'll have to move on to the next patient because as far as I can see, no matter what tricks I try and play to make you trip up and make a mistake, I'm not going anywhere. So that was very encouraging, I have to say. But it's, I don't know, it's rejuvenated me in some way, having had that experience, even though, you know,

I still have the legacy of a lack of moving on my right side. And I mean, trying to play golf, but it's a little bit of a struggle. But, you know, like so many things that can happen to you, you think, well, it could have been worse. Here I am. I can do what I'm able to do and carry on. So I'm very fortunate in that regard when I think about the alternative to it at the time because it was a pretty rough moment and it was actually while I was broadcasting that

I had the stroke which was kind of for what it's worth makes it even more memorable as a as something that happens in your life that is a sort of trigger point or whatever so look I'm very fortunate I'll tell you something else that has definitely injected some perkiness into you Jim and that is your partner Jen who I mean she what a character and again what a time I suppose

in your life for her to her to appear but lovely memories of her here in the house fortified by a chardonnale too I suppose singing Kate Bush which is not an easy thing to do but I mean she's

she's really lifted your life too hasn't she? She's been massively inspiring and if anyone had seen her there at our famous wedding which was held at the SCG. And she sang, again, this is getting very selfish.

She sang simply the best rather than speech. I can't. I can't. Oh, you're the best. Better than all the rest. I can imagine it. Yeah. And I thought, what the hell am I going to do here?

Well, I knew she was going to do it. So my response was Bobby Darren's dream lover. Oh, no. Every night, I hope and pray. A dream lover will come my way. She's been in inspiration. She is so much fun. Look, I've never laughed as much in my life as I have in her company.

It goes on that way. And goodness, we need laughter, don't we? Oh, yeah. We need laugh. And it's funny, you know, our jobs, you're an Aussie. You want Australia to win. I'm English. I want England to win.

And we have our little competitive moments, always with a bit of a smile, don't we? But for me, 2005, so there's two parts here. First, obviously, Edgebaston, where we had given up. We'd given up. And there's a lovely tradition on TMS where you allow the winning commentator to go on and call the moment because it's important as well for news coverage back home. It's your voice that's on it and so on. And so in go you and Jeff Lawson with what, about five needed, was it?

I suppose we'd give it up to go on in you go then Jimmy call it. And of course you end up calling England's win, which is fantastic. England's striving for this last wicket. They've been doing that for a while. Harmison comes up in bowls and Kasperovich goes back. and Paris won as he caught down the legside there's an appeal for chances out England of won

England of won by two runs Wow what a finish What an incredible test match That is astonishing stuff Yeah that That was quite a moment I can still see

Brett Lee smearing the ball to deep cover the winning shot but it was cut off I think just inside the boundary and they took one and that you know got Kasparovich on strike

and the rest of its history thank goodness we didn't have it DRS wouldn't that have ruined one of the great moments to finish a test match if we had I wasn't going to bring that up actually Jim there you go 2005 I remember

at the end of it all and you lived that series and you knew how a massive if it was for English cricket actually and the ashes and all of those all that much bigger picture that there was and yet you I know I know you loved that series although

Australia lost it of course but I just remember at the last day at the Oval we both were on our wireless microphones I was in the the Oval Pavilion interviewing the great and they're good down there the Bensers and John Major and everything else and you were up the other end chatting away and so

and we sort of gravitated right to the middle as the programme came to an end. Do you remember, and you and I stood there on the square agreeing that we'd probably never see anything quite like this again? That was the most extraordinary series. I mean, when you look back over the history of these series,

you have to say that the trigger point for the great change of momentum and anticipation about the contest of the ashes was when Glenn McGraths right on that ball before the edge was the test match. Because that was the moment that changed the series, wasn't it? And from

there on, despite warns heroics, I mean, he took 40 wickets in the series on the losing side. And that's another story that comes to mind. You know, well, the ego of Billy Bowden, right? Oh, yeah. So

staying at the dolphin near the over walking there. Now, with him on the second day. And I thought as we went, I might just jolly him up a bit. So I said at some point of her a 20-minute walk, I said, first day's play there, Billy, yesterday. How do you reckon you win?

I mean, if you were marking yourself out of 10, how many would you give yourself? I suppose seven. So he was obviously thinking I'm going to pick him up on something. He said, well, yeah, I suppose so. But you do know that at one point during the day, you gave Warnie a seven ball over. He said, oh, you score?

He said, no, he's going to go on the score, but he was seven. And we walked on a bit further, and I could see he was a little bit disturbed by this. So I said, but don't worry, Billy, because back at Edgeburston, you gave him a five baller, so you're even. Oh, poor Billy. That would have wound him up, wouldn't he? It's wonderful that you had to wind up. It's wonderful that you do,

you talk about the chapel and boycott and stuff, but you get to, I don't know, be involved with the whole game doing what we do, don't we? I mean, the relationship with the players is an interesting one. On the one hand, obviously, you've got to be critical when you have to be. And it's an interesting thing that people, you know, if they want to sound off, as they can do these days, so you haven't been critical enough. But you're trying to remind them actually you can be critical,

but under the point that you might have to interview the same player again tomorrow, and if you've absolutely gone at them, as our critics would suggest that we should, those players are going to stick two fingers up and never talk to you again. So it's a really fine balancing act, don't you think, between being critical and doing the job properly, but also trying to do it in the way that you have actually got to look that person in the eye again tomorrow.

And there are some players who are quite sensitive criticism. S.K. Warn, one I well remember. There were two occasions when I've been on tour and said something critical about his behavior. And twice, New Zealand and India, he banned me from interviewing him. Sure. It was just absurd. But these things.

tend to smooth over as you go. I think it's interesting. The relationship with the players has changed a lot because of the management of them, I suppose. When I first started, you didn't have press conferences. If you wanted to get an interview with a player, you went up and either saw the captain or just saw the player and said,

it's all right to have five minutes. Oh, yeah, that's all right. And it was very informal. And in fact, the informality was. so great that, you know, I'm going back to Steve War and Greg Matthews, that sort of era going back into the 80s, you go and have a drink at the bar or go out to dinner with them. But gee, it's almost impossible now. They've got 48 hours in the day, it seems, with a combination of playing the game and

being in committee, discussion, whatever it might be. they're very hard to excess in the way they were when I got involved in the days of Ian Chappell as captain of the team, yes. And they're younger, Jim. They're younger now. We've got to face that fact. Time's marching on.

Yep, it is. And they're drinking water and eating pizzas in the room while they're playing games on their computer. They're not down at the bar looking for someone to have a beer with. No, no, it does change. So are you ready for us next year? I mean, I remember you once saying to me, this is in the 90s,

Oh, jeez, I guess I just hope it's competitive this year. We just turned up for the ashes. I can't imagine what it was now. Oh, I just wanted to be competitive. And I knew you were lying. I mean, you might concede four nil rather than five nil. So are you ready for us next year? Well, look, you do want to see good cricket.

But when it comes to the ashes, yes, I suppose you like to see Australia win. but oh, I'm starting to mellow a bit more. I didn't really mind anymore. I've seen the good, the bad, the best, the worst. Some things never changed, Jim. Yes. It's lovely to have the chat, as always. It's a wonderful way bringing people together, the game of cricket.

And I've been so fortunate to have a relationship with people like you and Emma and all those puppies that are around your. place and the boys next door at the King's Arms. So I hope they're open again soon. Well, it was lovely to hear those stories from Jim. He's a special broadcaster and a very special friend to us all on Test Match Special. Look out over the next few weeks for some more conversations from our overseas friends to make sure you don't miss a thing.

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