Test Match Special - Voices of the World: Prakash Wakankar

Episode Date: December 15, 2020

Commentator Prakash Wakankar joins Jonathan Agnew to talk about his remarkable journey from cricket field to commentary box to boardroom.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance Defender Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. Hello, welcome to another episode of our trip around the globe chatting to Test Match Special commentators

and finding out about their journey to being part of the Test Match Special family. Today, we travel to India. Our guest is someone who played for his state's under-22 side in Maharashtra before moving off the field and into the commentary box broadcasting with his childhood idol Sunul Gavaskar. Over the years, he's been a key figure for all India radio's coverage of cricket and has described the experience of following cricket on the radio as superior to watching on television. When he's not on the radio, he's a highly successful businessman working at the very highest level

of a number of global brands. He is, of course, Prakash Wakanka, and he joins me from his home in Pune, Prakash. It's lovely to hear from you and catch up with you across the miles and so on. How are you getting on? It's wonderful, I guess. would never happen in 2020. It's a pleasant surprise. One of the best things of this year, frankly, for me, just good to see you and catch up. And yeah, it's been an interesting time this year. And I'm glad that you're well and everyone's safe. I think that's all we can ask for.

It certainly is. Now then, radio being superior. Go on then. What do you mean by that and why? Yeah, well, to me, it's actually fairly straightforward, I guess, and you of all people, along with all the other greats that I certainly grew up listening to know this better than me. To me, television is restricted by the lens. That is the eye. And therefore, the broadcasters, the people who commentate speak around what the imagery is and the producer is managing that. And I suspect there's lots of other factors that go behind it.

Whereas for those of us who are fortunate, radio allows you to transform the listener and sort of almost beam that person into the stadium, into the ground, sense the temperature, sense the air. I mean, the way I remember you once describing, I think it was you describing the barbecue that was going on on the side at the wanderers, I think it was, it felt like you were actually being able to feel, sense the aroma,

awakening the senses with just words. And that's why, both from a speaking, and listening perspective, I think radio beats television hollow. Yes, and it is interesting because I might be wrong, but it's always felt to me, certainly touring India more recently, is that radio there, and all India radio is obviously a massive organisation, and I've always been there doing the commentary. But it always seemed to me that they played a real second fiddle to TV

is just kind of completely taken over the broadcasting of Indian cricket. It unfortunately has, I guess, that's the reality of it. and I think it's commercial interests primarily. But it's also got to do, I think, with people at All India Radio. They're set up, as you know, broadly on the lines of the BBC. But the reality is they've now got a lot of financial pressure, which means they have to actually make the Palin sheet look well. And that, I think, has been one of the factors, rights fees, etc., etc.

And as we all know, if you don't have a passion for sport, it's very difficult to inject that. I mean, in the recent times, in the last five, seven years, it's been really sad that All-India Radio hasn't carried commentary of sometimes even for games being played at home. That being said, the reach of radio is so powerful in India. I remember many, many years ago, I think 2000 probably in Australia, Darrell Harper said to me,

you must be one of the few people in the world who have a captive audience of potentially a billion people. And I never thought of it that way, but he's right. Yes. I've always joked with my friends that if ever there was an election in India, where the voters were restricted to people who ran the corner shop or who were peons or drivers, there's nobody who would beat me. I'd win hands down because they know your voice.

And they're the primary audience. With streaming and data, it's changed. Yes, of course. I mean, I guess apart from the numbers being obviously massively more than Australia, But I would have imagined that all India radio would have done the same job as ABC in actually just reaching everywhere until you're right, until television and the other methods of watching came in. I mean, in those early days, All India Radio must have been crucial, wasn't it,

to people listening in the rural areas? Undoubtedly, forget rural. I mean, my dad was in the army, so we were often, you know, depending on where he was posted, we could have been away from civilization. And we used to have an old valve radio with, you know, the sort of antenna stretched out outside and crackly

as it was waking up in the middle of the night tuning into the West Indies listening to Tony Kosia or to Pallet or Johnston whoever it was in the UK it was brilliant I mean you heard crackly commentary you had to keep fiddling with the long shortwave I think

shot wave absolutely all shortwave absolutely fascinating those are my earliest memories well there's unfortunately very little archive of all India radio's early cricket commentary, but I wonder if this brings back some memories. This is All India Radio, Delhi. We now take you over to the Eden Gardens, Calcutta, to bring a running commentary for the second day of the third test match between England and India. Our commentators are Anan Settel Wad and Suresh Saraya in English.

Sushildoshi in Hindi. Expert commentary is by Lala Amarna. to the Eden Gardens. What a lovely gentle introduction, isn't it? Marvelous. It was the pace at which life moved at that time, I suppose. And yes, I mean, Aran Seetlevard was one of my heroes, amongst many others. Sadly, no longer with us in the world. Neither is Suresh Saraya.

But that was the time. Yes, absolutely. I mean, we'd all queue up and wait to get the transistor sets ready. someone had got a new fancy machine, we would go to their house to be able to listen. Yeah, it was a different world. Yeah, yeah. And just the mechanics, I guess, of broadcasting across India. And were the commentators all local?

I mean, they were going to Eden Gardens there? So were they local Calcutta commentators and likewise everywhere else? No, no. They'd fly them around or get them around on the train. Yeah, well, they would get us around either on trains or flights, whatever was convenient. But remember, those days, commentary would also happen in almost every major regional language. And he back foot on to drive to keep on, but right on the time of the short cover. So you would have a Bengali-speaking local team that would probably be sitting next door to the English and indie commentators doing Bengali commentary, as would happen in other parts of the country.

All that's gone away. And mind you, this is to happen for all first class. cricket. So all Ranji Trophy games would be broadcast. And that's how many of us like me actually got our chance or got our break to be able to sort of do the auditions at the local station, whether it was English or Hindi. And of course, one of the unique things that All India Radio does, which is, I suppose you don't have a choice, is this bilingual commentary, but non-conversational, which means Aggers is speaking in English sitting next to me describing whatever, five minutes. And then I switch to Hindi. And the two of us don't.

actually talk to each other, which is, you know, takes a lot of getting used to, if you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You can blow your own trumpet if you're like, I'm not going to bother doing it to. But actually, to play for Maharashtra under 22s, I mean, there's a fair old pool of players they're selecting from there, Prakash. You must have been a reasonable player. I'd like to believe I actually was, I guess.

I used to open the batting, modeled myself unashamedly on the great Sunil Gaviska. Right. You're a bit taller than him. I don't think so I don't think so I'd like to believe I'm exactly a policy but you know

I remember when I was first picked for the under 19s and for the state I actually took a rickety old bus to Mumbai and went and waited at the one KD Stadium for the Mumbai team

to finish practice only because I wanted to go and touch Sunny's feet and take his blessings from there to be able to sit next to him and commentate I've died and gone to heaven

a million times and how did you find it the first time? It was a game in Pune. I don't know if you remember the Nehru Stadium where internationals used to be played. Jeffrey Boycott, in fact, got a double hundred here and said, I'll wrap the pitch up and take it with me wherever I go. That was where I did my first game, 1983-4 season, Baroda versus Maharashtra.

I remember that. And that was the first time I did commentary. And of course, mercifully, it was only the... regional broadcast, but when I first sat down with Sunul Gaviska, must have been a fair few years later, and my only question was, how do I address you, sir? Can I call you, sir? And he said, no, you can't do that on commentary.

And then I had the exact same answer from Sir Gafian Sobers at the 2010 T20 World Cup final in Barbados, where he said, it's Gary or it's nothing. I think Sonny was very gentle with you, isn't he? He always is. And, you know, because we both speak the same mother tongue and then a lot of banter on the side as well. But he's terrific.

He's a great guy. And Gavskar tells him for a single. And the whole stadium on their feet, Gaviskeh being cured even by the West Indian cricketers, all giving him a clap. And Gavisker lifting his bat up. in grateful acknowledgement. It is extraordinary when you go to India and work with Sonny.

Even now, all the years after he's retired, just the crazy adulation that there is for this little man leaving the ground. I've had something, some really, I mean, almost scary incidents with Sunil trying to get him out of the ground and into a car and people beating the car. I'm not just people, but I mean hundreds of people, and pens sticking up everywhere because I want his autograph. it's an amazing culture isn't it it indeed is and i remember once i guess in fact it was at nottingham where we were running into the station to catch a train back to london during the 2009 t-20 world cup and i asked him because someone stopped him for a selfie he stopped and i said sunny we'll miss

the train once we were on the train he tells me placash do you realize i am only who i am because of these people if they weren't there i'd just be one hour of a billion. And I think that sort of just stayed with me that, you know, as individuals and people who achieve so much and celebrities, how you carry yourself is really up to you.

Yes, and they are celebrities, aren't there? I mean, the Indian cricketers, they are celebrities. And until you really witness this incredible, crazy adulation that there is for these people bats from predominantly, I have to say,

but until you've actually seen it, you don't quite believe it. Oh, absolutely. The kind of adulation, as you say, is mind-blowing. I don't know how they cope with it. I wonder. It's very difficult, which is why they have such a good time when they travel, I think. Yeah. Here's an example of you in the commentary box with Sunil Gavisca. Ingo, Stephen Finn now. Comes in both to Rana, and Rana gets with, and he plays straight into the hands of backward points.

So very important wicket, Stephen Finn comes back, does the job for Graham Swan, and Sures Rana departs, caught by Johnny Beresto. Well, he's been batting well, so he tried to go the aerial route. He wasn't able to clear the fielder at backward point. He middled it all right, but he hit it straight to the field. You don't sound too gooey there, Prakash? Yeah. You sound quite comfortable with your hero.

Yes, it's over the years, I think it's become a little easier. Yeah, of course. We can't not talk about Sonny or talk about him and not mention the World Cup in 1983, which was clearly what really put Indian cricket on the global map. I mean, it's obviously huge at home. But it was also worth mention before we hear that, the very famous

clip of Christopher Martin Jenkins describing the end. They have very odd innings that Sunil played early on in the World Cup, when he just didn't seem to have any eye on winning the game at all. This was in 1975, wasn't it? Was it his first encounter of one day cricket? People always talk about that.

Very curious innings. That's swung high in the air. The best coming into the act. He's found a shorter boundary there midwicket, he's negotiated it successfully, and he too gets six. It was 335 to win for India, and then came the near unbelievable part. Sunu Gavaskar batted through 60 overs and made 36 not out. I've never said anything quite like it in a limited overs game before or since that day. It was almost as though they were having batting practice, either that or playing for a draw.

Sonny was in his younger days, because then you'll remember, Sunny was a bit of a rebel all the way through. and I think this was his way of sort of lodging a protest to say this form of cricket this is not cricket and I think that was his mindset I've never actually asked him I've never had the guts to ask okay so now how significant then to go back to 83 now how significant a moment was this described by Chris Martin Jenkins

in comes Amanath again oh it could be LBW he pulled across the line holding and India have come Because one of the greatest upsets in the history of all sport, they have won the Third Prudential World Cup, beating the hot favorites, the four-to-one-on favorites, the West Indies. One of the greatest upsets in the history of all sports, the normally understated CMJ. I just wonder, how did it feel listening to that at the time, was it? Well, it was phenomenal. It was, I can't even describe it, but yet it's as fresh as it is for thousands of people, if not millions.

because I think, you know, as has come out now, the Indian team, when they went there, a couple Dave and his boys, actually had bought tickets for themselves and their families to travel to the United States for a holiday after the World Cup. They had no intention whatsoever or no plans or no hopes. And they just said, no, if you could win a couple of games and just not embarrass ourselves, that's fine.

But the adulation, the kind of reception, and there was one big snafu that happened, because after the World Cup victory, there was a call by NKP Salvi, who was then the secretary of the board and Mother of Sindhya was the chairman, which promised 100,000 Indian rupees to every player and the staff, which was only two or three people at those days.

And then the secretary or the treasurer, Mr. Rungta, famously called up and said, but you know what, we don't have anywhere near that kind of money in the BCCI, 1983. And then Ratsing, Dungarpo, the great Ratsing, approached one of India's famous, most famous singers, Lata Mangeshka, to actually have a concert or two which raised money for the BCCI, enabling the promise to be kept for all the players. How extraordinary.

Yeah, yeah, amazing. What 37 years can do. Yeah, and do you think that moment was the turning point then, as far as Indian cricket was concerned? Without question. Sort of projected it. without question. I mean, that, I think, brought the focus on the game. I think most importantly, I guess it coincided with a time in India's history for sort of the period of liberalization to follow. Mrs. Gandhi got assassinated. Her son became prime minister. So there was a whole

economic change. India's foreign reserves that slipped to the lowest. Dr. Monmoan Singh became finance minister. All of that happened. And it sort of set India on a path as a nation, as an economy. and cricket just followed in its wake or the other way around, you take your pick. So it's about that time. I was working out the ages and so on here. I'm not going to pry into your age of not Prakash, but it must have been about the time

where the under 22-year-old Prakash Wakanko was opening the batting. And about the time where you realised you weren't quite going to make it and therefore you went into your business interests? No, I guess. It was actually fairly simple. Look, I mean, you know this.

Those days, you couldn't really make a living out of cricket on its own. If you were lucky, you got a job with the Indian Airlines, so you got a job with a state-owned bank. I had my, like I said, my dad was in the army. It was clear that after I had finished education, I had to get a job. And the choice was between missing an examination, a major examination, and joining the camp for the tour to Sri Lanka.

Oh, okay, right. Where a lot of the guys who went on to play for India, I'm not saying I was as good as them, but Ravi Shastri, Sanjay Manzraker, Siddu, all these guys were in that squad or in that group. And I chose to take the exam and all these guys just skipped a year. I also realized that if I had to earn a living,

I had to do something. And it wasn't going to be a bank job. So I pursued my academics, finished my MBA. It's interesting because here we are doing this series of TMS commentators. And actually the rest of us have followed more or less the progression of players. a bit, okay, I've obviously played a bit more than the other guys, but, you know, from that

background into journalism and then you get the chance to commentate, move into radio that way. But actually you have had a very different route to it. Yes, I have. And I like I say, God's been exceptionally kind. I've been lucky. God breaks. And I thank my teachers in English in the early years in school that I think English was a little bit better than some others, which must have helped somewhere along the way. And was that a conscious effort to really work? Because you have. You speak beautiful English, Braco.

Well, thank you, I guess, coming from someone like you. That's a very, very important thing for me to remember. But I think the reason I speak, the kind of English I do, I think is a lot to do with my corporate life. Because I've worked with people from all around the world, from a very young age after I took over and started working. I've traveled. I've lived in multiple countries and worked in multiple countries.

and I think that's helped the English language, but cricket was never far away. I mean, I would make every effort in the world. I remember in Nepal, we used to have an India versus rest of the world game at the Indian embassy in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. The Australian embassy was large enough to host the rest of the world versus Australia game.

We set up cricket associations in Cambodia, Vietnam, China. So, I mean, you know, cricket has always been in there. Yes, absolutely. And so how did that first chance come? Because you're now going down the big. business route and doing very successfully so and you're traveling around the world. So how did you manage to open that door to All India Radio? Well, I actually did that game about a year before I played the under 22. I was only about 20, 25. Really? Right. Okay. And that's

that happened thanks to the late Mr. Bal Pandit, who I consider to be the angel that was sent to to get me into broadcasting because he pushed my case with the All India radio station and He used to do English commentary. And he actually said, mark my words, this boy is going to do better than I did. So you must give him a chance. And that was how I got my first break. And God bless him. But then you moved away, though, presumably, did you?

And then you came back. But I traveled, I lived and worked in India to begin with, the first two or three years. So I has to keep getting the opportunity. As you know, it's a democratic setup in All India Radio. In a series, you'll get one game or two at the most. You don't get a full series. And so I would get called and I would do those. games. I only left the country in 89, four years later, six years later, and went to Nepal,

where I could still come back to Delhi and do commentary. So that continued. It was only when I left India to go to the Southeast Asia region that for about seven years, I did no commentary. And then I came back in 1987, it would have been, no, 97, sorry. When Hansi Kronia's South Africans were touring India, And they had a practice game at the Cricket Club of India. And thanks to an old friend at All India Radio, because it wasn't an international game in that sense. It wasn't a test match. He said, OK, why don't you come in and let's see if you still got it?

Yes. And I did that game. And from then on, it was straight right through. And were your help? Because Harsha Bogler was kind of, he had his eyes on TV at this stage. So he did some TMS work with us. And he went to Australia and so on the radio. people here would be familiar with his voice.

But he's very much a TV man now, isn't he? Very much. But I think, you know, the ultimate credit to Harsha, who is a wonderful guy, look, he and I, in terms of academic careers from a business perspective, were very similar. Both he and I graduated with our master's in business in 84, 85. Okay. He chose, like you said, the more conventional career in broadcast.

casting journalism and whatever, and he's done phenomenally well. Both of us actually gave our international audition together, I think, at the Mumbai station at the same time. And his sort of impact on radio, again, I think radio lost out on Harsha. It wasn't the other way around. Because he would have continued to do radio, because even today, as you know well, he loves radio. He gives him half a chance he will do radio. Yes, yeah. He feels like a natural radio man, doesn't he?

How do you cope with this? Because I think there's much more pressure on you because of that relationship with the players. I mean, the spectators, sort of adulation of the players. They are these gods. I know Harsha had a few issues, actually, with a very gentle criticism of MS Doni that put paid to his career for a little while.

But the players are gods. How do you sort of balance the criticism of an Indian player knowing that you might have some bricks foot through your house windows You know, this is where it's funny, isn't it, the dichotomy that we talked about earlier, where television is so much bigger. I think the people who matter watch television don't listen to that much radio, which is why I'm okay. But that's in a light of vain.

I think, honestly, you've got to be true to what you do. And if what you do is what you love, then in a way, the consequences be damned. You've got to do what you have to do. I don't think I've ever been overly critical of anybody. and for the simple reason on the cricket field that their ability at the sport is so much superior to mine that I can point out or I can sort of identify and say Wani or Jeffrey, don't you think he could have done this differently

or don't you think he played a bad shot? Don't you think he's bowling a different line? Because I don't think it's my place, frankly, to pass judgment or opinion. My job is to describe and to seek input. if I can and sort of spur the conversation. So I don't think I'm worried about this, this criticism bit. And like I've always said, because of my job in the corporate world, broadcasting for me has been just a pure food for the soul kind of thing.

So I do it because I love it. And I think that is why I don't have that kind of pressure. So what will happen? If someone bans me from doing commentary altogether, I'll be gutted. But I won't die of hunger. And I think that's a difference. Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. As far as being an Indian and a proud Indian, as you are, Prach,

and seeing how the BCCI now is, and this huge, huge creature that it's become, all-consuming and the most powerful cricketing body in the world, by some distance, certainly in terms of finances, are you comfortable with all of that? I mean, do you think cricket is in good hands with the BCCI, as powerful as it is? You know, the interesting thing, I guess,

is that if I apply the standards, the highest standards of corporate government, which I'm used to from the corporate side, like many, many other things in many parts of the world, not just India, I don't think the BCCI will pass muster. That's one very clear fact. That being said, the development of the game, the facilities that have been provided, the opportunities that are now being given, the kind of money that, you know, first class players at all levels are now being able to earn, forget the IPL, but even without it, I think all of that, you have to give credit to the BCCI. There's no doubt. I think what happens is internationally we see the top echelons. We see the sort of interactions with the ICC and other boards and so on and so forth. Those things get magnified.

But what happens domestically within the country doesn't get that kind of attention. So I think it's an interesting situation where you could almost say that if you think of the BCCI as a government, domestic policy is fantastic international policy may need a few changes along the way that's how I see it can it be better of course it can but remember in a country like India

power and absolute power and influence and politics and money the tri-cut can't be very far from each other and therefore if you look back over the history sort of Ganguli is probably one of the first if memory serves me right precedence of the BCCI who's not a politician by profession. And that's a change.

Now, how long it'll last? Your guess is as good as mine. But that's what it is. It's the political influence that cricket associations and precedents of associations are welded, which has sort of instilled this troika to come together. And I think that's what's part the BCCI. It's helped it to achieve a lot. But it's also led to a few things that some people in the world,

world will question. Yeah. The IPL is incredible. I watched quite a lot of it this year. I watched it with a sound off. Well done. The television commentary. I'm sorry.

I can't see you commentating like that, Prakash. Look, I have always been told that you have no chance whatsoever. So don't even try. And I often tell my chairman and I work for the Mahendra group, I often tell my chairman that Anandhi, the only way I'll ever do television is if you own a television channel and give it to be true to commentate otherwise no chance because now it's a preserve of of international cricketers isn't it you can count on your fingertips the people who are not in harsha is a is a notable exception yes but just the sort of the chaotic nature of the

commentary and the it's so hyperbolic how do you cope with all of that i don't know i mean the only television i've ever done i guess and it was sort of off camera was when i was working in Singapore and ESPN had their studios in Singapore. India's tour to England, Sanjay Manzreka's last tour must have been 95-ish, I'm guessing, 95-96. In the ESPN studios, there was a need for a Hindi voiceover on the commentary. So we'd get the feed-in and we were sitting in the studio doing Hindi-language commentary. That's the only television I've ever done and I was very uncomfortable with two different voices, but that's about it. This is how we'll think of your commentary, Prakash.

The last ICC trophy, the India won, the 2013 Champions Trophy. And you were there with us for that controversial moment in the final against England at Edgebaston. Tell you what. Tell you what. No, got to go with the batsman. You have to. Doubt has to go to the batsman.

Yeah. But very, very close that. Yeah. Very close. And no real need for Bell to play. He's been given. He's been given. My goodness me, that was a surprise.

Ian Bell's been declared outstumped when there was, I thought, at least here between Phil Tuffman and myself, enough doubt for it to go in the favour of the battle. Yeah, I don't. Well, I mean, that's a great decision for India. As fair and balanced as always, Prakash, as we'd expect. Well, that's, you know, when I read the books that people like Arlitt and I heard lots of cassette tapes of Johnston,

I heard Richie Benno's tips on commentary early days. One of the things I was always told was, you have to call it as you see it. There's no we and us. You are not Indian. You are not English or West Indian or whatever. And one of the most beautiful things that Mr. Pandith told me, you know, if you think of the Mahabharat, which is one of India's epics, it's actually a narration by a gentleman whose name was Sanjay to his blind king describing the battle. And so we believe, at least I

believe, that Sanjay was the world's first ever commentator. He was simply narrating to his king what he was seeing. And if you play with that approach, I don't think it's your place to pass judgment beyond what I see. And I understand. Yeah. Well, Prakash, it's always an absolute pleasure to work with you and to tour with you. I think my fondest memories of touring with you was no doubt you taking me gently through the minefield of the vegetarian hotel that we were staying in Rajcott for a lifelong carnivore. It was somewhat an alarming experience those 10 days there, but you very calmly and actually opened a whole new world for me too in course of that. It did. You went back significantly fitter, didn't you? I did, and I might have slipped a little bit since then, but anyway, that's the joy of doing

what we do, isn't it, to make friendships like that? It absolutely is. And remember that that was the night when the demonetization happened. Yes, I've never seen someone look more panicked-stricken. All our money was worth a befraction of what he was. Anyway, love his talk to you, Prakash. Thank you, Agus. Always a pleasure.

So there we go. again to Pragashwakakankar joining us from Puna. There's lots more in this series. You can catch them all on BBC Sounds. I got a question for you. What are you doing for yourself today? I'm Eve. You may know me as a rapper, a TV presenter, and a businesswoman.

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