Test Match Special - Wickets galore but Gay stands tall

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

Simon Mann is alongside the BBC's Chief Cricket Commentator Jonathan Agnew, former England captain Michael Vaughan and TMS stats guru Andy Zaltzman to review the second day of the First Test between England and New Zealand at Lord’s. A day where 17 wickets fell and Emilio Gay scored a half century. Hear from Gay and New Zealand bowler Nathan Smith who took six wickets on a frantic day.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So close of play on the second day of this first test match at Lords. Well, the wickets continued to tumble. 17 wickets in the day, but a full days of play and over 300 runs scored as well. And the upshot is that England are a strong position. They've set New Zealand 254 to win. They are 36 for three at the close of play. and England taking a big wicket just before the close with Kane Williamson

plumb LBW to a beauty from Josh tongue out for 18 England 226 all out good day for Emilio gay making 57 and that after England had cleaned up the New Zealand lower order all out for 113 so 52 for 4 from New Zealand today Jonathan Agnew is with me Michael Vaughn is with me Well, this test match is still on fast forward. It is. And you say, yes, a big wicket of Williams. And, of course, but it's also really handy to get rid of the night watchman as well, because they can hang around.

They can be annoying when play resumes. So the fact that he's actually been dispensed with as well means that England could get stuck in. Fresh bowlers, new bats, new middle-order bats when coming out. It's perfectly set up for England. I mean, they will still be nervous. You know, 218 is not a lot of runs. And, okay, you look down at who could do that. Look at the way that New Zealand, that middle order played here last time.

Mitchell, Blundell, you know, they had terrific series here. There are still capable batsmen to come for New Zealand, those who can score hundreds. But this pitch, I think I'll join, I have joined the chorus of saying that this is a really poor pitch. This is not a standard of pitch you'd expect for a Lord's Test match. And they've got to do something about it. You know, you can't keep playing on this particular strip, I'm afraid. and it's going to cost them a lot of money. And while they're weighing up the fact that you can't play on a relayed pitch for three years and all that stuff,

and they've got three test matches next year. You know, it's, that's irrelevant. It's going to cost them. They're going to have two three-day test matches on pitches like this. The MCC needs to decide what its priorities are. And a priority of is not having a Lord's test match lasting three days. For those who've not been with us for the first couple of days, just explain what is wrong with this surface.

everything I mean it's it's it's the bounce is uneven there's too much seam movement it's and it's nipping quickly that's the thing also I mean you the number of bowls and LBWs suggest two things first of the ball is really jagging about it's doing it quickly and it's doing it at heights that are hitting stumps and hitting pads and then that Bethel delivery today it was just a utterly unplayable and here at the other end of being receiving balls from a Rork, yes, he's a tall man. He's entitled to get the ball to bounce, but not from just short of a length, almost up into the throat. It's doing both, isn't it? It's not just a case

of cracks, and therefore you get that uneven bounce of the ball sometimes darts along. You know, this is just not, it's not a pitch that's good for test cricket. No, it's not, and I think they'll be the first to admit that they've not quite got it right. Test match cricket is meant to be a test. It's not a test for the ballast this week, because it's too easy. There's been times in test cricket where it's been too easy for the batter, So you want a fair balance. This isn't a fair balance between bat and ball. You know, you look at someone like Emilio Gaye, you know, and metrics in sport.

You hear about it, you know, data analysts and, you know, he's 57. I mean, what is it worth? You know, there's been two half centuries in the test match. Harry Brooke that had lives, you know, he had a twice. He had one moment today, Amelia, where just after lunch, Matt Henry didn't review an LBW. That would have been out. But, all right, someone say, got a bit lucky, sneak one. But actually, Darren Mitchell didn't get a hand on the ball.

So I thought he played beautifully on a pitch that is so tricky. I mean, you've got a great, great player in Joe Root, who's looks out of sorts. You've got a great, great player in Kane William. So what's he got? He's just got out for 18, didn't get so many in the first. You know, he got naught in the first things. You know, you're talking great players that are going out to bat and make it look so difficult because it is. So yeah, the MCC know that this pitch isn't up to standard.

It didn't even look right. I mean, at the toss, did it? I mean, we talked about old hair transplants and all those sorts of things because it, It doesn't look like a Lord's pitch. It's got, well, it's like, yeah, like implanting, you know, hair into bald people's heads they did back in the 70s. Those sort of... Oh, they're still doing that, Jonathan.

But not with those obvious sort of runs. It's like a, I might change that analogy. I'll change it to a recently drilled field in which the, in which the crops are starting to sprout with lots of soil around them. It just did not look like an evenly grassed pitch. I feel, and I go back a long time ago when I was playing, I never ever. I think the Westerners in 2001 it was nipping,

but it was a week where it's really kind of muggy and cloudy. I actually feel sorry for the batts having to come out at the home of cricket with a, this is the best place to play cricket. And I just feel very fortunate that I didn't have to bat on many pitches like this. So inside those two dressing rooms, Will the batters be thinking, that might not necessarily be saying it, possibly they will. Later on, when they're gathering for dinner or what have you,

they'll be chatting about the surface. Will they be thinking, actually, this is not having this? This is not the way to play it. Yeah, they'll be thinking about winning the game. You know, England will be thinking, right, we just need to keep it very simple. And that's why I say it's not a challenge for the ball. It's just run up and hit a length.

You know, change your angles every now and again. You know that the pitch will do the rest. That's not test cricket. That's not skill. that's not kind of testing your physicality or your skill sets and they know that. Bowlers have got a week where they've got plenty in their favour. But the bat is from both teams.

They'll probably be around the dinner table tonight. This is tricky. But New Zealand have to go, okay, we need 218 runs. On this pitch of what we've seen, what is the best way for us to get those 218? And I would say, swinging. I honestly think if you look at Jameson, the way that he played,

look at the way that Olly Robinson came out and played, suddenly all the field gets spread. And then there's more ones and twos because there's not field as close to the back. You know, bowlers start to go short. You can get a couple of ways to the boundary. I think if you plan, we've just seen Kane William soon. I think it's probably up there with one of the great technicians. If he's getting done by a ball and it wasn't his technique that was at fault,

the ball just thudded, it seemed and thudded into the back pad. Nothing he can do about that. If I'm watching that from that New Zealand dressing and go, wait a minute, our greatest technician is getting out in that fashion. I'm not going to allow that to happen tomorrow. I'm going to go out and play a few shots. And if I was New Zealand, I'd get everyone in tonight and go, right, to get 218 runs, anyone got any ideas. Come on, all around the direction.

Now we're going to get these runs. And I bet you most of them would go, do you know what? Kyle looked like the biggest threat in the first. And Glenn was probably the biggest threat. Ari Brook. You know, Emilio, when he started to play a few shots, they're going to have to get England's field spread to give them any chance. So it's going to be a big gamble early. But I see that's the only way of New Zealand getting anywhere close to this.

But also praying on England's confidence. you know if that if suddenly a partnership does develop and especially that there are some shots being played then the ashes will come back yes and and you know England's going to be really challenged yeah oh Jameson went to play a baseball but Ollie Robinson I didn't see him bowl one short ball last night suddenly started a bowl short the ball was going into the stand

and suddenly Josh Tongbold a slow ball from the pavilion that went into the stands yeah so bowlers do panic when someone comes out and plays completely especially with the confidence level of England I mean it's I mean, if they slip up now, you know, you can just see there. You know, it's on a knife edge, really. Carl Jameson making 38 from 29 balls, and he hoofed a couple into the stands off Ollie Robinson.

A remarkable shot down the ground as well off Josh. You'd almost break it down, realistically, to chase 218, if you did it the old way, 70 overs. You think any batting unit can survive 70 overs on that pitch to get to absolutely not. I'd go, can we get them in 40 overs? Go at 5. You know, 40 overs to bat on a pitch chasing, 218 it's like you know with seven wickets remaining it's damn sight easy

easier than batting for 70 overs so I'd be taking the gamble if I was there yeah but Mitchell's positive Blundell's positive Phillips is positive Jake Jameson's positive and they've they've got the players who could score at that sort of rate what did you like about Emilio Gay you said he you know he played really well what what is it you see in him what did you see in him today I just I always study body language and that that's body language before play as well And I think he looks very comfortable in the shirt. I think he's looked very comfortable in the surroundings this last week.

He clearly is a player. And this is why over the last few years, when players have been just kind of picked from nowhere without the experience, I look at Emilio Gaser at the right. You know, he's been at North Hansen done well. He's been at Durham and done well. He's got plenty of runs in the last few years. He knows how to score.

He knows himself and he knows his game. And I just watched down today. I thought, wait a minute. Yesterday, your front foot was going quite a bit. further over and he kind of came across the line and ball nipped and he snicked oh that's a bit vulnerable today he didn't do it as much you know he was better aligned he had a real positivity about back and forth today and it wasn't easy because the ball was going up and down but when the ball was there to hit and he and he didn't come out the traps and fly you know he had to work hard he got a um a boundary down uh off his hip

and then suddenly he had to work and work and work he had to wait for a short ball and then the short ball came he didn't he didn't try and whack it he just timed it i thought well that's a good sign because he's His eyes didn't light up and he just timed it to the boundary. Then he gets a four one and he timed it away. I just like the way he looks in terms of his mentality. His body language is excellent. And he just looked like he was enjoying the occasion, which is what you want to see from it.

I totally agree. The last 20 runs or so he scored, he could see him really start the blossom. He'd be a lovely little cunning shot. And I mean, a bowler might normally say, well, come on, his fiddle. I think he'd pay that lovely shit. He played absolutely deliberately.

Lovely little felt for it, ran it away down through third man. There I say, Jonathan, he got to 50 and around the wicket, I think it was Nathan Smith, and he bowled him a ball, it was outside off full, and he was over to the offside, and he played the shot through midwicket, went for four, and I went, that's Alistair Cook. Well, do you know, I've had the same discussion with Eisha. I think he's copied cookie. By the way, he sort of moves around the crease.

There's a lot of Alistair Cook in that, and the way that he, the areas that he scores, well, the left-hand note was probably going to score in those areas. but same school, same coach, enough of an age gap to think similar height. All of that. I mean, I'm not putting any pressure on and say he's going to score all those runs of cookie. They're saying that actually you can see where he's, who is watched and who is trying to copy. Because we all copy our heroes, don't we?

You know, I was Peter Lever running into bowl, you know, all those things. When you're a kid and you look at somebody who you really admire and he's obviously been looking a lot at cookie, I'd say. Well, let's hear if he's a better talker than Alistair. He's with Alison Mitchell. Amelia, half century on your test debut, congratulations. How hard did you have to work for those runs on this pitch? Yeah, obviously, a tough day.

I think, you know, pitch had its demands, and I think that's the beauty of test cricket, I guess, is like the challenges that it brings. I think the most important thing was just trying to embrace it and see it as an opportunity. I think when it's a low-scoring game, 20 partnerships and little bits of momentum there are massive. So, yeah, I had to work.

hard with the new ball but I think against the attack that New Zealand have to offer with the skill they bring it's always going to be tough so yeah I think it was nice to get a 50 partnership there with Ducky you know both Northampton boys so that was good and yeah no really really happy and hopefully we can put some pressure on tomorrow you've experienced all sorts of roller coasters across this brief two days so far what was it like in the dressing room when the wickets tumbled after you were dismissed yeah I think naturally games ebb and flow. I think obviously seeing Routi get out

and after me I was kicking myself a little bit Rudy and Brokey getting out because the conditions were probably perfect for a set batter so I was slightly disappointed with that but yeah I thought the way Jamie Smudge and Robbo put that partnership together. That was massive.

I think like I said, small partnerships were huge and that partnership there and that shift to momentum with Smudge coming back in really put us back in the driving seat. So yeah, I think it's naturally, obviously, new to the dressing room, but such a relaxed dressing room. There's that calmness and confidence that the next man will come in and do the job. So it was calm and relaxed and, yeah,

we managed to put a score together in the end. And three wickets tonight, we're in the driving seat. Yeah, to get the wicket of Kane Williamson, then the night watch, I suppose, a bonus on top. But how big to get Kane? Oh, massive, yeah. I mean, I was at short leg just trying to soak it all in. Kane Williamson, one of my heroes growing up, batting there and the crowd getting behind us.

All of that was brilliant. It's a massive wicket, again, just late in the night and then getting the night watchman there. I mean, tomorrow morning, if he plays a few shots, it'll be frustrating. So, yeah, Tungie and the rest of the lads there were brilliant. Robbo with the new ball. Just can't wait to get out there tomorrow, really. You've got a real close-up view there at short leg. How is the wicket playing now?

How do you think it will play going into tomorrow? I think there's a bit of up and down bounce, which is we can use in our favour. We've got some height in our attack. I think that I'll play in their minds. I think when you put a partnership together and the ball gets a little bit older, it's definitely a nice scoring wicket. It's just, you know, every other ball, if you put it in the right area, may, like we've seen with the bounce, go up.

A couple may go slightly lower. But we've got a, that's a skill in itself to get the most out of that wicket. And I think we've got the bowlers to do that. I think tomorrow will be similar to today. I don't know what the weather's like. If there's some overcast conditions, then that's great for us. But if not, it's about being patient and then taking our chances. And that was probably the best thing about being at short leg.

Day one was taking that catch. And it was as easy as it comes, but it felt like it was in the air for two days. So, yeah, no, hopefully we can use the conditions to our varnish tomorrow. Have you done much at short leg in your career? No, not really. Yeah, at Durham, I've not done a lot, but in Northlands a few years ago, did it a little bit but um yeah bals and stokesy said about doing short leg and i wasn't going to say no so i had to do it so um but i've really enjoyed it it's been good what kind of a short leg are you

did i have a bit of a conversation going with kane williamson when he was there in front of you no i just let them get on with it i just keep my head down and try and do the job but no i've i've enjoyed it i think with spin it's a bit different if they're sweeping but uh against the seamers it's quite fun in there um so yeah i'm enjoying it and what has this whole experience been like has been like as being part of an England side at a test match and a Lord's test match, no less. Yeah, awesome. I mean, my parents have been here the last two days, family have been here, and it's great. It's nice to get, play a nice shot, and you get a real, real cheer behind you, which has been great. Obviously, the test matches here in England are so well supported that,

yeah, it makes it even more special. And at Lords, I mean, today, obviously, the Ruth Strauss Foundation, we're walking out and all the fireworks are going off, and we're all in red. I've seen that on TV so many times, so to be part of that was amazing. But yeah, I think this has been such a good experience. I mean, hopefully we can try and win and looking like hopefully it can be tomorrow. But yeah, it's been great so far. I'm just trying to take it all in and go out there and put my chest out and do the best I can for England. Does confidence come naturally to you?

I know you spoke before the match about nerves and almost embracing those rather than letting them, you know, get a movie. Yeah, I think, look, I have been nervous. But I think the opportunity to play for England and put this shirt on is, like, Like such a cool thing. It's more, just more excitement than nerves. Obviously, I have been nervous, like I said, but I've dreamed of this for years. I'm not going to lie. I've absolutely dreamed of moments like this.

So being around this environment, I just can't see it as any other, like, anything else is just an opportunity to do well. Obviously, like I said, I'm nervous, but I'm embracing that. Everyone's nervous, you know. I'm sure Rudy and Kane probably are nervous, you know. Everyone's nervous. But that's part of the sport and part of when you do well. good but like I said I'm trying to contribute and

in a low scoring game to get some runs today I suppose makes it a bit more nicer that those runs hopefully can be in a winning position and when you come into this environment is there any anyone in particular that's helped you to feel at home stepping into an England dressing room yeah obviously nice to have Stokesy there with that Durham connection

I think Baz has actually been great like he's been so what's the word encouraging of the way I play like, you know, just encouraging and trying to get me to play the way I want to play, you know, and help England win games of cricket, you know, whether it be striking at 35 or 75, you know, just don't try and change the way you've played for Durham. And that's hearing that from Baz last week at Loughborough, really gave me the confidence to go out there today

and not have a pressure to score like maybe Harry Brooke or Ben Duckett who do it so naturally. you know if I'm if I'm getting stuck in and maybe not scoring as quickly as I'd like that's absolutely fine and having that backing probably was the thing I needed to hear and that's really helped well done on your half century good luck for the rest of this match

no thank you cheers thank you guys the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live that's Emilio Gay talking to Alison Mitchell so a few nerves around obviously but quite a confident talk well I just listening to that thinking Isn't that refreshing? You know, to hear someone on his debut come out and talk like that.

You know, it's fantastic. I mean, and it suggests that, you know, we watch people coming out and playing test matches early in their careers. You can see those that are nervous and those are a bit consumed by nerves and those who wonder if they are actually good enough to do it. Well, there's always that kind of a question. But when you're as confident and talking like that, the odds are you going to be okay? You know, he's going to be all right. There are some technical issues clearly because you're stepping up, you're going up the ladder, and you will be exposed. And there will be video of you now that all the bowlers we're working on and all those sorts of things.

They're looking for weaknesses. But yeah, he sounds a confident young man, isn't he? And there's someone who's just loving it. And isn't that great? Here's someone who actually is just absolutely loving every minute of playing for England. It's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, bring it on as far as Emilio Gay is concerned.

one of six wickets today for Nathan Smith. He took six for 70 and he's also been speaking to the BBC. Well, many congratulations on a fine bowling performance. What do you see the match situation, first of all? Yeah, obviously the game's moved pretty quickly in the first couple of days. Unfortunately, lost probably one, too many wickets there tonight. But, I mean, the pitch is offering quite a bit for the seamers. So today I think we felt, you know, when the sun was out, it was a little bit easier to bat.

And then obviously when the clouds rolled in, yeah, it was offering a lot. So hopefully tomorrow we can get a good string of nice weather and put on a few partnerships. I won't tell you about the forecast then. Anyway, but in terms of that pitch, it does feel as though matches just move incredibly quickly generally now. But is this a good pitch for cricket, test cricket? I mean, it's hard to say. It's certainly offering a lot for seamers in terms of less. lateral movement and now we're seeing a little bit more variable bounce as well.

Again, if you get through the new ball and the sun's out, it is pretty good to bat as well, as we've seen, you know, Melio Gay and Ben Duckett put on a partnership there at the Star, which I thought they better well and negated the new ball. But yeah, when the clouds roll in, there's certainly a little bit more on offer. Good fun, though, is a fast bowler. Yeah, it's certainly good fun, especially, I mean, bowling with a Duke in general, it's good fun. It feels like you've sort of got a motor dismissal in all the time compared to back home, you know, you feel like when the ball gets a little bit older

you've sort of got to go to the short ball or whatever but at the moment it feels like you sort of can keep all three stumps in play over here which is great. Talk to me about this New Zealand bowling attack because it is so varied it feels like you've got so many bases covered. Yeah it's nice when you've got a couple of guys six foot seven six foot eight running at the other end

and then I think it compliments me and Matt Henry really well you know the points at which they come through coming through at different heights and obviously Willow Rock Bowls at 150Ks so yeah we're in a good spot at the moment with our bowling line up so hopefully the bat is tomorrow can do a job. Where do you see the

target because England looked like they were wobbling, then got up to a reasonable total in the context of the game? Yeah, if we're honest, I don't think we bowled as good as we could have in that third innings there. 250, I still think we can chase that if we bet well. But yeah, I think we

maybe just weren't quite at our best with the ball there for a good portion of that innings. Back to back, six were into as much cricket. I mean, not many bowlers can say that. No, it's good. It's nice to contribute. Nice to contribute and, yeah, it was obviously good to put the ball in an area for a while there and get the rewards. And Lord's Honours board.

I mean, it is a bit different, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is a little bit different. It's obviously stuff you dream of as a kid. So it's cool to achieve that and nice to contribute. And yeah, it's cool walking in and see my name up there now. Many congratulations. Thanks.

That's Nathan Smith talking to Henry Moran 6'417. You might have a part to play with the bat on the third. or fourth day, depending on the weather on Saturday. Andy Zaltzman is with me. What have you noticed statistically Zaltz? Two short first innings in this test match. Yes, New Zealand bowled out in 29.5 overs. England in their first innings,

bowled out in 39.4 over. So 69.3 overs between the two sides. That's the sixth shortest ever combined first innings, where both teams have been bowled out in test history. We've had over 2,500 matches. The Melbourne test test, on boxing down, it was 75.1 overs for the two first innings. That's in eighth place. Five of the eight shortest first innings in test matches have taken place since September 2022. So I think

that tells you quite a bit about the nature of modern test cricket, the collapsibility of sides when conditions are difficult. It was New Zealand's fifth shortest ever completed innings. For England, it was the second quickest they've bowled an opposition team out in the first innings of a home test since 1952, only the day when Stuart Broad Skittled Australia for 60 at Trent Bridge in 2015 has been shorter. That was 18.3 overs. And we've seen a lot that we've seen the stumps come into play a lot. 20 bowls on LBWs so far. I think it's 11 bolds to nine LBWs. The stumps flying is one of the great sights in cricket. I wish they had the Zinger Bales and the Zinger Stumps lighting up for added.

visual spectacular, but the record most Bold and LBWs ever in a test in England was on this ground in 2007. That was 23. So there's quite a good chance seven wickets still to go that record could be matched. There were there were 20 in the game last year between England and India. So it's been an issue for laws. The sort of pitch is bouncing low and a bit inconsistently. And I think that's that you know with so few over as bold in this test 20 Bold and LBW shows how the batters haven't been able to trust the bounce, and the bowlers have taken full toll of that. Anything else?

Specifically, the ball to Jacob Bethel, we talked about this quite a bit during the course of the day. It was 30 centimetres off the ground, according to the ball tracking data when it hit the stumps, and yet it pitched quite short of a length over nine metres from Bethel's stumps. And I looked on Crickvis ball tracking data. All the balls in the last 20 seasons,

seasons of test cricket in England that have pitched between nine and ten meters from the stump. So trying to compare like with like short, shortish balls. That is the lowest. Any of those balls have ever bounced over 11.5,000 deliveries in that sample. So there really wasn't a lot that Bethel could do about it. And then Crickvis have what they call pitch viz rating, which sort of measures the, I guess, the reliability consistency of a pitch. I'm not sure they're in methodology, but it sort of gives you an idea of how difficult to pitch is.

and over the course of the first two days, comparing first two days of test in England, this is the second most, worst rated pitch in a test in England. This goes about 135 games going back again about 20 years. So it has been a fiendishly difficult surface. The MCC have been asked to comment on state of this Lord's pitch, and their response has been no comment. Okay. Josh Tongue took his 50th wicket.

in tests with his first delivery of the day when he bowled out Glenn Phillips. He's now up to 53, in terms of most wickets by an England bowler, in the first ten tests of his career. Today he's overtaken some legends of the English game, Fred Truman, George Lohman, the 19th century grade. He's now level with Ian Botham on 53, and that's the most by any England bowler in his first ten tests since the 1950. So a fantastic start for him.

Okay, thanks to Andy Zaltzman, Jonathan Agnew and Michael Vaughan. That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you'll subscribe so you never miss an episode. We're back on air at 10.30 a.m. Saturday morning for the third day of the Lord's Test. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is five-life sports. It's all eight to the lights and fit in a floor. To bowl him.

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