Test Match Special - Women’s World Cup: England head home hammered by South Africa

Episode Date: October 29, 2025

Henry Moeran is alongside 2017 World Cup winner Alex Hartley and TMS commentator Daniel Norcross for analysis of England’s thumping defeat to South Africa in the semi-final of the Women’s World Cup.Hear reaction from England head coach Charlotte Edwards, captain Nat Sciver-Brunt and player of the match Laura Wolvaardt.

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A delighted Marizan Cat makes the early breakthrough. Cam in again! Oh, Boulder! Dragon! There the night goes! England have lost a second wicket. They haven't got a run on the board. Capp's got them both! We could just go straight to Ultra Edge because that would tell us everything. That's it! There's an edge! Tammy Beaumont out! And England are one for three!

The click ball was a very full ball which is chipped in the air and is... the air and is caught and that is it. That is the game Sune Loose takes the catch at mid-off. England have been bowled out for 194. They lose this match by 125 runs. South Africa stride into the final. So England are out of the World Cup, being by a South Africa side who were inspired by their captain.

It was a brilliant innings of 169 from the outstanding Laura War. Fart, South Africa, winning in the end by 125 runs as fast bowled at Marizan Cap took five for 20. England at one stage, well, one for three in pursuit of what would have been a record 320. They've been soundly beaten here in Guwaharty, and they crash out of the World Cup at the semi-final stage, a venue where they beat South Africa, having bowled them out for just 69 in their tournament opener, but it could not have been more different under the lights of Assam tonight with Laura Wolfhardt absolutely brilliant and almost as brilliant if not

making a case for player of the match herself Marizan cap then with the ball South Africa head to the final to face either India or Australia but what a performance absolutely outstanding from South Africa who have bundled England out at the semi final stage Alex Hartleyer World Cup winner with England in 2017 has been watching on as has Daniel Norcross for match special and Alex will get lots of reaction from from both camps in due course but initially it is the sort of night that South Africa would have dreamt of yeah memorable memorable night for South Africa as you say it's one that they would have dreamt of especially after being bundled out for 69 in that first game it's the perfect revenge isn't it's the perfect comeback for South

Africa and it's everything they would have wanted to have absolutely dominated England today and show them that, yeah, we didn't play great in that first game. And yes, we were below average, but this is the sort of game that we can play. Daniel, your thoughts initially before we hear from player of the match, Nora Woolfart. Just what great resilience, South Africa, have shown in this tournament. After that very first game you just mentioned, they bounced back to win five of their next six games, or five of the next five games. Then they lost to Australia really badly in their last game, bowled out for under 100. And yet, that would be their most recent memory. They've come here. They've put that behind them. And it's pretty much

a complete performance. You know, Marizanne Cap was struggling with a bit of cramps, so she wasn't able to bowl her full ten overs, but they were just superb today, led right from the top by their skipper, and innings of 169 that we will talk about for many, many days to come. It'll, I think,

going down in folklore a bit like Harman-Preet cause one in 2017 against Australia. It's definitely up there with it. The ICC player with the match goes to South African Captain Laura Volfart to present the award, we have Mr. Ragu Rambhat, the Honorary Treasurer of the BCCI. Congratulations to Laura, 169 of 143 balls, 24s and 4-6s at a strike rate of 118.18.18.

I know you haven't even had a chance to catch your breath, but a record-breaking knock. Your first ever World Cup knock, the first captain to score a century in a knockout game in a World Cup and a first South African to 5,000 ODI runs. How does it feel to be Laura Volpard tonight? Yeah, still feels a bit unreal. I think that's sort of the thing that you dream about as a kid is scoring 100 in a World Cup

and a World Cup knock-up game as well. So, yeah, very special day and so glad we won in the end. You said at the toss, getting runs on the board in the semifinal could prove crucial. When you walked out about there with Tasman Brits, what was the chat between the two of you And how did you plan going about that innings?

Yeah, we knew the start would be crucial. I think Taz and I have been really strong up the top of the order. And I think when we bet well up top, it sort of feeds off to the rest of the lineup. So really happy we were able to get that partnership up front. But we did identify quite earlier. It was a decent wicket. So we just wanted to keep going. I had a few other batting partners that batted really well.

So, yeah, really nice that we got to a big score because it was a pretty flat wicket in the end. Partnerships were always going to be important. Lots of wonderful off-side play for you. you but towards the end when you accelerated some great leg side play. Was that tactical or were you just going with the momentum of the inning? Sort of just going with it. I think in the back of my mind, I know I have those shots, but was really just wanting to get to the 40th over. I think that was really my goal today is to sort of hold things together and get to the 40th to let Nadine, Unnery, Chloe, you know, really whack those last 10. And then I thought, while I'm there,

I might as well try swing. So yeah, happy you got a few of those legside boundaries. Maybe you need to do that a bit earlier. When you have a look at your career and some of the great knocks you've played, we look at the 184 that you scored back in 2024. Where does this stand for you in your career, Laura? Probably has to be the top. I think just context of the game, World Cup's heavy final. Winning the game against a very strong side, a very strong bowling attack. Yeah, I think it's right up there. Congratulations. Our player of the match tonight, Laura Volta. Extraordinary performance and what a last 10 overs it was. was 117 runs coming from them.

England actually in their run chase were neck and neck most of the way, but it was that amazing conclusion to the South African innings that powered them to that total of 319 for seven. And the ball was going to all parts, Daniel, as Laura Wolfheart did some remarkable hitting. Well, it's crazy, isn't it? Because you watch 50 over cricket and it has lots of phases and you see the phase when they're taking the singles.

And Laura Wolfheart played in every single one of these phases. She played at the top of the order when it's the power play and you want to try and make the most of the field being up. Then she played the boring middle overs because they lost three quick wickets and then there's a bit at the end

when things go a bit bonkers but she was so in and she was in such a fantastic vein of form at that point and in such a zone that I was watching it from upstairs I just thought there isn't a single ball that she's not going to get to the boundary it got to this point

when she had just flipped into an entirely different gear and we were watching a holy new game of cricket when they started the last 10 over it was a 202 for 6 and I remember

on commentary Al was saying if they can give it to 260 even 250 if they can break this partnership and then

England would be very happy and then you started thinking well if they can England could keep them to

280 that's still if 300 well they'll believe they can do 300 319 I mean

it just kept going they just get bigger and bigger because the runs were being scored in enormous

quantities in those last five or six overs bowlers like Lindsay Smith who'd been brilliant for England in the death in this tournament had no idea where to bowl and it was just one of those things that happens in cricket when someone's completely in and there's there's no threat the ball can do them no harm and it just suddenly flies her first six came off 120th ball and then she hit four more of them as she said then maybe I should have swung into the leg side a bit earlier it was scintillating to watch

it really was it was one of the best knocks I've seen I know that we we spoke on air about Alyssa Healy's in the previous World Cup in that World Cup final but that was the best knock I've seen since then you know it was unbelievable in a knockout game to do what she did to have put South Africa in the driving seat

against the very good England side you almost think well at the halfway stage it was more or less done was the game yeah well it was wasn't it I mean we sort of basically gave up on that just entirely gave up on it once they've made it to 300

We kind of looked at each other and went, that's going to be too many, even though it's a really good pitch. The problem is you've got to have a really good start and you've got to keep going. And England did not have a really good start. They had the adifices of it. And I think actually they were so shell-shocked by what happened in those last 10 overs that it seeped into the start of their innings, didn't it? That dramatic beginning where England were one for three off 1.1 overs. and the reason for that, as much as anything else, was that it felt like the batters that had come out

were still dealing with the scars of what had occurred before. There were very loose dismissals. And, you know, Amy Jones was out in the very first over, bowled through the gate, nothing much happening there. Then we got the drag-on from Heather Knight, two weeks have gone down the first over. It was amazing. Yeah, I think from then it was pretty much game over for England. And when they get three down pretty early on, it's like, okay, where do we go from here?

And look, there was still hope. When Nat Siverbrunt was there and Danny Wyatt Hodge was there, he still had a tiny, tiny little bit of hope. But Marizan Cat with the ball doing what she does best, I mean, tearing through the England top order, as Dan was saying, you know, not one of the top three scoring a run, Heather Knight chopping on and almost looking like, oh, I can't believe it. And then Tammy Bowman hadn't faced a ball in the first over

and then gets out first ball, reviews it, doesn't think. she's hit it. But yeah, look, it's one of those where England were just outplayed by South Africa and England are the better side. They're more consistent. I mean, the stat before the game basically says enough

in itself, the head-to-head, they've played 47 games. England have won 36 of those. South Africa have only won 10 of them. But now South Africa have won 11 out of those 48 and quite possibly won one of the most important games they'll have played.

Yeah, and it's a massively important step on their journey as well. They've been finalists in the T20 World Cup in the last two editions, but it was that question as to whether they could break the duck, if you like, of 50-over cricket and managed to find a way of getting over the line in a 50-over tournament. And they've done so. Here is Casner do alongside Nat Ziburban. I've got the England captain, Nat Silverbrunz, alongside me. Not much time to reflect on this, but what are your immediate thoughts after tonight's loss?

Well, what an incredible two innings from South Africa. I think, yeah, we weren't at our best today, and I suppose to beat the best teams. You have to put a whole game together. So, yeah, we didn't do that today. I'm obviously hugely disappointed. And, yeah, it will take a bit of time to sink in, but, yeah, just disappointed at the moment.

Wickets in the power play was going to be crucial, and South Africa denied you that. But you did get that triple strike, three for three. You really felt that you were back in the game at that stage? Yeah, definitely. I also think during the power play and afterwards we didn't, I suppose, let the game go too far. We were pretty happy with the control that we had.

And we knew a wicket at one end would be able to make some inroads, which we did. And then, you know, we'll see it. They got another partnership together. 209 for six, nine overs to go. You would have thought somewhere in the region of 260, 270 would have been comfortable. But when you got someone like Laura Walford, and the kind of form that she was in,

pretty difficult to stop a side like that. Absolutely. Obviously, she had the best of the conditions. She knew what she was doing and really took advantage. And then, you know, with some explosive batters coming in as well, making it very difficult for us. And, yeah, like I said, you have to put a whole innings together at least and then obviously the second innings as well. But, yeah, I think we stuck at it really well as the side

and I suppose didn't let the occasion and get to us, I think, in the field. and really pleased with everyone's energy throughout that 50 overs. Coming out to Chase, 320, you had the batting resources, a giddy couple of balls up front, and it really just dismantled that top order. What could you have done differently now that you reflect on those first 10 overs? I mean, obviously, Cappy Bolt's some brilliant deliveries. And, yeah, I mean, obviously with the start that they had with the bat,

We wanted to emulate that, but yeah, it wasn't as easy as just going out and trying to bat the way that Wolfart did, so obviously it's not ideal, losing three very quick wickets. So, yeah, that made the chase

difficult from the start, but I think the way that Capsey and I suppose put together a partnership it showed that, I mean, we were up with where the cell Africans were in their first inning, so yeah, we obviously needed to do it for a lot longer than we did in the end. You've had a great campaign until today when you walk back into that

change room. What do you say to your team? There's some young players there, some of them in their first World Cups and still a long journey for them to travel. Yeah, absolutely. I think we've come a long way since the summer. I think we're a different side certainly from then and we've learned a lot about ourselves. I think obviously this all hurt but yeah, hopefully in time we'll be able to take the learnings from it and move forward because yeah, we've made some great. great strides so far in quite a short space of time but I think it's really exciting where we can go obviously

to beat the best teams you have to really be at your best and yeah hopefully we'll come back stronger the next time I've luck tonight Nat and all the best for what's to come thank you England captain Nat Siverbrunt who was understandably a little downcast Alex yeah I mean

she's going to be she said it'll take a little while to reflect and you know think about what happened today but ultimately she's just disappointed and that's you know she's going to be, she's going to be gutted, disappointed. You know, they've been knocked out of a World Cup where they probably thought they had a proper chance of getting through to a World Cup final.

So, yeah, you know, everybody in that squad will be disappointed because England haven't played well today. Phil Long, our scorer, is with me as well. Now, Phil, there was two crucial performances in the game, referenced there by Cass chatting to Laura Walthart. One, the innings of Walfart. Some numbers on that, please. and then the performance of Marazan Cap,

particularly at the start of England's innings. Yeah, as you mentioned, Laura Wolfhardt, yeah, she was the mainstay of that innings, wasn't she? 169 off 143 deliveries. That's the highest South African individual innings in the World Cup. It's the second highest ever against England after Lissa Healy's 170 in the World Cup final. Four years ago, yeah, took South Africa to their highest ever World Cup score,

319 for 7 during that innings. I think Laura Wolfart now established. establishing herself as one of the greats. The six player to pass 5,000 ODI runs. Sorry, the six player to pass 5,000 ODI runs. The six player to also hit 10 ODI centuries. She's fifth on the World Cup all-time list, and now averages over 50.

Men, England, required their highest second in its total to win an ODI. Before we knew it, they were one for three, the top three. Jones, Beaumont Knight, all blasted away without scoring. first time that had ever happened in ODIs for England, meant Marizanne Cap went on to take five for 20,

seven overs, three maidens, five for 20. In doing so, she became the all-time top wicket-taker in the women's world cups. And in the end, it meant that England suffered their second heaviest ever defeat at a World Cup. In terms of nights not going as you expect, now, Alex, we know we talked about lots of commentary. your prediction, no doubt that England will win.

I would like to put my hands up. Go on. I was wrong. I was wrong. And I think, you know what? The way England have played in this World Cup and got better and better, and the way South Africa have been so up and down, I just had a feeling that England would dominate.

And I totally agreed with you. Yeah. You know, it just felt like England were going to make the World Cup final. You know, if you could pick any of the other three teams to play against in a World Cup semi-final, you're picking South Africa above Australia and India. But look, South Africa, they turned up and they dominated today and they outplayed England and fair play

to them. I hold my hands up. I was wrong. South Africa, they were great today. They were unbelievable. Now, Phil Long sent a message to our group right at the start of the tournament after England beat South Africa so comprehensively by 10 wickets. Saying what, Phil? My exact words were

England are going to lose to South Africa in the semi-finaling Guarati, aren't they? So it's your fault, not my fault? I got it 100% right out this time. There you go. how about that phil i mean it's it's quite the call isn't it but there was just a sense from the start of the game tonight alex the way that laura wolf heart hit the ball to the boundary in the first over there was a stealing this first two balls first two balls she looked completely on it didn't she

she looked like she was in the mood she was crunching the ball through the covers any width that england gave her she crunched a ball through the covers and just took advantage of any width and then look once she was in she said it as she said it herself she said it herself she said, you know, I slowed down a little bit throughout the middle, but Marazan Kat managed to take over and managed to, I guess, help her out and she started scoring a lot quicker. But yeah, look, it was the perfect ODI innings. It was better than the perfect ODI innings. It was unbelievable from Laura Woolfart, not only because she's captain and she's leading

the way and she was, you know, doing what every captain wants to do for her country and, you know, their team but the way she just went through the gears and then you know i think she's pretty honest in that press conference when she said oh probably could have gone harder a little bit quicker well she could have got 200 films she went from 100 to 169 in 28 balls yeah and she wanted to go harder harder extraordinary wasn't it uh did england get much wrong in this no i don't think so and i think that's why you know i'm not one of the i'm not going to come out and slate the team because I actually don't think they did get much wrong, to be honest. I think they bowed well.

You know, England, when you compare the scores at the halfway stage of both innings, sorry, England were pretty much neck and next. England had lost more wickets. So I don't think England did much wrong. They didn't drop loads of catches. They didn't have loads of misfields. They didn't bowl loads of wards and loads of slot balls. What they could have done is probably go to a wide plan a little bit earlier,

especially to Laura Woolfart and try and, you know, make her, change her game rather than just bowl on leg stump and she was able to hit all the bowlers into the leg side. But yeah, look, I'd been knocked out of a World Cup and being out played. Sometimes you just got to hold your hands up and say we weren't good enough. And do you think England weren't good enough today, Daniel? Yeah, they weren't. And Charlotte Edwards said exactly that to me. And I think that's a disappointment. They weren't good enough today. But at the same time, you've got to temper that with a side playing about as well as they can play. You know? It's one of those very difficult things in sport.

And in cricket especially because it's an individual game and it's a team game. And there were two incredible individual performances that South Africa had that in 50 over cricket aren't usually as effective as they are in T20 cricket because there's a more sinuous narrative to the game. But when you get an innings for the ages like Laura Wolfheart's and you see what impact that had on England and how it took the game away from England, And I think it affected the way they batted, frankly. So you look at the two parts of it,

and you think, well, England didn't bowl too badly for the first 40 overs. Did they even bowl that badly? In the last 10, they just got marmalised. And then with the bat, suddenly they're facing a really large target. And they were, I felt they were a bit of sleep in the first. I say asleep. I mean, I think they were trying to process what had happened at the back end of the innings. And you can't afford to do that.

We've got someone as good as Marizanne cat bowling at you. You can't afford to not be really, really switched on, and they weren't. And so when you're one for three, you're not going to chase 320, are you? So we didn't see the best of England because their top three all got nought. And it's, as I think, Phil has said, it's the first time that a men's or women's team has had the top three, all get ducks. And you don't recover from that when you're chasing such a mammoth target. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Well, let's hear from the England head coach. Daniel, you've been speaking to Charlotte Edwards on the boundary edge. your immediate reaction so it's been a pretty tough day Yeah it's really disappointing I mean you know we had high hopes of hopefully going further in this comp

and obviously it hasn't worked out for us today I think you know we've been completely outplayed by South Africa I think two fantastic performances from one from Laura Warfare I think one of the probably

the best ODI Indians I think you'll see and obviously an incredible spell of bowling from Marizan Cap and ultimately you know two of the big performers for them stepped up on on the big stage today and yeah obviously we'll be going home now your team were in it at 202 for five as well

going to those last 10 overs and then you've alluded to it you got wolf-hearted i mean it was an amazing amazing knock those last 10 overs is there anything you think your team could have done differently yeah obviously we'll reflect on that there'll be areas that we could have improved in but i think a lot of credit has to go to her and some of the strike in there was it was outstanding it's very difficult to bowl at someone when they're in that type of form yeah so I don't think that's for now

I think we're going to have to dust ourselves down and obviously go back home there'll be players going off to the WBBL now but yeah I think you know there are positives from this trip I think we've got to sort of cling on to a few of them but ultimately we're defined on our results and today you know we've just obviously been knocked out of the World Cup

which is hugely disappointing for everyone Did those last ten overs do you felt that it sort of bled into the way the top order batted because suddenly it was one for three. There was a little bit of uncharacteristic batting, I think. Be safe to say, from that top order blown away first time that top three have gone for a duck. And it was, I just felt watching on there might just have been a bit of a hangover from the trauma of the last half an hour.

Yeah, I mean, you will always probably say that with the situation. I mean, I haven't spoken to the players. I think I'm keeping away from them at the moment. But, you know, it was a great spell of bowling. Yeah, and just disappointed. I thought it was a great partnership from Nat and Kapti that kind of gave us a glimmer of hope and you kind of felt that Nat's of a Brunt had to kind of match

what Laura Walthy did and that wasn't to be. So, yeah, we'll have to take it on the chin. And, yeah, disappointing day. Disappointing day, but has it been a disappointing tournament? I think there have been a lot of positives to come out of this. When you get the chance to reflect, what do you think you're going to look back on and go, you know, that's gone better?

Well, I've seen improvement, and I think that's all you can ask for as a coach. You've seen improvements in the way we've gone about stuff. You know, we've asked for the players to really, you know, go out there with clear plans on what they're trying to do in terms of winning matches. You know, we've won a lot of matches throughout this tournament, which is,

Obviously, something we should be proud of. But, yeah, it's obviously at the end of the day. It's on today, isn't it? And I think not to play our best cricket. We kind of said at the start of this, to win this, we're going to have to play our best cricket, and we haven't today. And we haven't been consistent enough today.

So ultimately, that's been our downfall. Just briefly, to look across the tournament, though, the players for you that have shone, because there have been bright moments, I mean, there are some that have sort of come to maturity in a way. I think of Alice Capt to getting her first ODI, half century today. Lindsay Smith, opening the bowling, hasn't been doing that before for England. So, you know, there are differences to the England side that lost the ashes 16-0,

and it feels like there are changes afoot. Yeah, I mean, delighted for Alice today. I think she's really taken our opportunity this tournament and has shown everyone what she can do. And obviously, Lindsay's been, you know, one of our key bowlers. There's been lots of highlight, but yeah, I think that's what we'll go back and reflect on and obviously we've got a big winter ahead of us of a big training block in preparation for the T20 is now and I think that will become the next focus ones we've dusted ourselves down from

this. Charlotte, I can tell you're disappointed. It was a very tough day today but I have to say South Africa had just a fantastic day and it's not going to happen like that every week. Yeah, they did and I think a full credit has to go to them and I'm sure, you know, they'll be traveling to Mumbai tomorrow and let's see who they face in the final. Commiserations and thanks for joining us. Thank you. Thoughts there. As Charlotte, Ed was chatting to Daniel Norcross.

Very honestly, I thought, Alex. Yeah, I think you have to be, don't you? As a coach, you've got to be honest, you know, about where you went wrong and how you were outplayed if you were outplayed. And that's what we want. We don't want to be lied to. We watch the games. We see the games. We follow this team.

We've seen every single England women's team for the past 10 years or whatever it is between us. So, yeah, look, I think good honesty from Charlotte Edwards, England weren't good enough today. And very disappointing for the team, but they will learn from it and they will grow. She was gutted. Yeah, you could sort of tell. She was really, really, I mean, disappointed does not do it justice. She was really, really upset, I think, because she knows that the players could do that much more. And I think also she knows that against South Africa, they were favourites to win.

first time that South Africa have won an ODI against England batting first, isn't it? But at the same time, she talks about needing time to reflect. I don't really know how you do reflect on somebody scoring 169 against you. I mean, the Harman-Priek knocked Australia out of the World Cup. But they did reflect, and they changed and realized they had to adapt and move to... Yeah, and Charlotte Edwards has been coached for six months. You know, I think what she's able to do is get England to... to dig deeper and to stay in games longer.

And I think if, you know, we're really honest, at 202 for 5, England on that pitch would have felt pretty happy with how they'd come back into the game after South Africa had been 116 for none. So, you know, you are looking at a game that had lots of different twists and turns in it. It's just it got away from them in that epic and extraordinary last 40 minutes of South Africa's innings. And England weren't able to counterpunch. they needed to get through the power play one down probably with 50 on the board. What they didn't need was to be one for three,

naught for two after five balls and one for three after seven. So, you know, when I say these things happen, perhaps those things shouldn't happen. You know, perhaps Amy Jones shouldn't be letting the ball get between bat and pad and be bold, second ball. You know, perhaps Heather shouldn't be hanging a bat out to dry and having the ball just come back onto her stumps. perhaps Tammy shouldn't be playing the shot that she was playing, because they weren't three great balls, really. They were three slightly, well, just unfocused shots, weren't they? And it was in stark contrast to how South Africa started their innings

when they were right on it right from the start, crisp drives from Laura Wolfhardt getting on top of England's bowlers. There's a wider look at at the tournament, where England are at, Alex. I think it is worth looking at whether this is a successful tournament or not because Charlotte Edwards said ahead of it that you know getting to the semi-final was a minimum they beat India but they probably should have lost to Pakistan they were thrashed by Australia

they should be the second best team in the world with their resources but where do we assess it? I think they're in a pretty good place to be honest I know they've not got through to a World Cup final and like you say they probably would have lost to Pakistan but the difference in the team from what we've done saw in January is actually remarkable, you know, the way they keep themselves in the game for as long as possible. They don't give up. They keep fighting. Even today, you know, Danny Wyatt

Hodge at the end there, she's still trying to find boundaries. She's still trying to win the game. She's, you know, she was determined. So I think the, you know, the attitude has completely changed. They look like they want to fight. The fitness has got better. The fielding's got better. So yes, they haven't had the result of winning a World Cup. But actually, I think it has been a success because we've seen a massive change in this side from January. Yeah, I mean, I think to the last tournament, we watched that together in Dubai and Sharjah, and you just didn't feel that they were focused on the actual tournament,

and things sort of came up and surprised them. That turning out to be a knockout game, like how on earth did it turn out to be a knockout game out of nowhere? And they didn't seem to be prepared already for it. Whereas this time, I didn't feel that that was case at all. you know, Al talked about fitness there. I think Alice Capsie is a really great example of this. In this tournament, she was frequently going from long on to long on.

She was bowling, she was batting in the middle order, not initially very successfully, but towards the back end of the tournament, was finding her feet. She was a live wire in the field. And I think it's safe to say that she wasn't that 12 months ago. And she's going to be a very important player for England over the years because we talk about, you know, the players that are new that have come in. Eight of the same team played in the last.

semi-final. Yeah. Right? So it's not like there's a massive churn of players. So when you're looking at the people

that have come in, they are Lauren Bell, they're Lindsay Smith, they're Alice Capsi. And you want to see how they're getting on. Lauren Bell's building has improved vastly.

Her bowling's got better. Lindsay Smith's given another dimension and Alice Capsie's an improved player. But again, when the pressure's really on, England has been soundly beaten in a knockout match

and it is now years and years. But you can't expect that to change overnight. It's never going to change overnight. It's going to take a while for, you know, how many times do England play under pressure? It's only in World Cups. It's going to take

a long time for that, and ashes. It's going to take a long time for that to change. And I actually think you've got to give the team a little bit of leeway. You've got to get better at playing spin. They've got to get better at playing the in-swinging ball. They've got to get better at playing under pressure. They've got better

in the field. They've got fitter. You can't do it all at once. I think that is a point that's worth making. I think the worry from England's point of view is they would have come into this game much as we all did and Alex you're the one

that's going to be given the I'm deleting social media well don't you said you had no doubt England would qualify I think many of us had high confidence that England would yeah but you know

I think we're blindsided by the pitch because we've been at Gouharty and watched three games here and it was a completely different surface it was designed actually for England's bowling attack they loved bowling on this and yet what we found actually

It was a really true, really good, bouncy surface. And England's Premier bowler was nursing a bit of an injury. And I think her first couple of overs were very exploratory. They were very much, like, knock on it. I know she did, yeah. She came back really well. But I guess what I'm saying is I think what we thought was that it was going to be a matchup where England's spinners were going to be in the perfect place

against the South African side that had the wrong makeup. Well, what actually happened is that South Africa's depth of matter that kept on coming in England was perfectly suited to the conditions and in a way batting first getting that 116 run opening stand gave them the platform to be really courageous and really

bold and so you've got to take your hat off to them the reason why we thought that the game would pan out differently is because we hadn't seen the pitch like that here before we'd seen kind of like the opposite yeah and it's really interesting the way that the game played out it is worth pointing out Laura Warfader she said in that interview

she would have had a bowl first as well and it worked out well for them. I mean, cricket is in an interesting place in this country or in England with India, I suppose, being the comparison in this tournament and the pressure that's been on them to perform. They've got a big game against Australia now. Our attention from an England perspective rather turns towards next summer where there's a glorious opportunity. We've seen the effects of the red roses, the lionesses and all of that sort of thing.

Next summer home T20 World Cup. I mean, there is something in the quite near future for England to really get their teeth stuck in. Yeah, and how exciting. Yeah. How exciting for England to have a Home World Cup, you know, played at proper stadiums. You know, we're going to have sellouts. We're playing at the Oval on Friday nights, Thursday nights. You know, there's actually no place better to play cricket.

I'm sure you'll enjoy that one, Dan. But, no, it's a real exciting opportunity for England. And they've got a, their minds will shift. There'll be some, you know, 50 over cricket that's played. but they've got, I'm guessing, I've not seen the schedule. I'm guessing they'll have loads of T20 cricket. They'll go to have a dabby and have a camp or whatever they'll do in the winter. But yeah, really exciting for that World Cup.

Look, we'll say this all the time. T20 does bring teams closer together. New Zealand won the last T20 World Cup. England on their day have got the personnel to be able to win T20 matches. They've got fantastic bowlers suited for that. Looking at the way Lindsay Smith's bowling, and you can see them going in with a similar kind of bowling attack, even in English conditions.

what they haven't quite hit the heights of in this tournament is power hitting I think we've seen teams better at that and over 50 over cricket it's a little bit more difficult to assess because the power comes right at the back end doesn't it but I'm thinking about

say the Gardner Sutherland yeah DeVie well you see this is this is what I mean and I'm thinking an injection of new personnel not wholesale changes but in T20 you're able to pick a wild card who can smash it

because you've got 11 resources to bat. So you can afford to try somebody out who's got really high ceiling and who might win you a game on the day. Today, Laura Wolfhardt won them a game in the last 10 overs of the innings. In T20, somebody like Davina Perrin could do that. Well, there is plenty of time for us to get stuck into that in the coming weeks and months. But in the meantime, I guess there is the slightly broader world cricket question

as to whether India have the opportunity to overturn. take England or South Africa beginning to draw level away at that sort of territory in terms of the chasing pack behind Australia? I mean, Australia are way above everybody. We know that India have beaten England on a few occasions and probably become the second best team in the world. They're only going to get better with the WPL. You know, if they win this World Cup, I guess they'll have more money pumped into their

domestic setup, therefore they'll get better and better. It's not when, it's not if India will win a World Cup. when and I think that they will just could they have the potential to dominate in about 10 years time that yeah absolutely I think they're two totally different teams that you're looking at here for south Africa this is the last hurrah of players who as phil long points out five of these players played in the semi-final against england eight years ago and then four years ago they are wolfheart lease cap try on and iabonga caca and the problem that south you've got is that we're seeing the same names over and over

again, but they have played so much cricket, they are so experienced that they have done really well in this tournament with those players, but those players, what's behind them? With India, you've got exactly a different thing, which is they don't quite know who to pick because they're getting so many players coming through

from the WPL and with the money that's coming in. They've got more and more professional players to choose from. So, yeah, in the meantime, what England has got a hope is that their new county system, the fact that there are more professionals, playing, that they're playing more cricket than ever before. Don't forget that Charlotte Edwards made England's players basically played domestic cricket

at the start of the season. So you were seeing the lights of Heather Knight playing in April. You were seeing Alice Capsy played time and time and time again for Surrey in the early part of the season. And you're going to hope that that's going to bring results. I mean, I've seen players in the domestic game get so much better just this year alone. And the power hitting improving massively. now it's a matter of continuing that upward progress.

Well, England have won 14 of 21 completed matches since Charles Edwards took over as head coach us in ODIs and from the start of 2024 to when Charles Edwards was appointed. England won 34 of their 44 matches. So actually they've had a dip from 70% to 66%.

But I think the sample size is not big enough and the change is much deeper than that, I think. I feel very differently looking at this England defeat in a World Cup match and an Ashes match to how I felt a year ago, Alex. And just a final thought from you, it may be the same story in terms of England's elimination. It is a very different feeling. No, it's the start of something new, isn't it? It sounds cliche that, but it is.

It's the start of this team building and working and finding ways to win. And yes, they've got to get better under pressure. They'll be disappointed about today. But I think I can take a loss like that when I've seen them play the way they have throughout this tournament. It'll be one of those where they'll be disappointed for a while

but actually when they look back on the games that they got over the line on the games that would have lost it previously, they can sort of take pride

in that, the way that they've changed, the way they've fielded, the way that they're top of the table with catch percentage, you know, all these things

that are starting to make changes. This team are going to be getting better and better. Well, my thanks to Alex Hartley to Daniel Norcross and to Phil Long.

South Africa will find out their opponents on Thursday Australia taking on India from Navi Mumbai. You can hear every ball of ad on BBC sounds from 915 on Thursday morning, as well as the final on Sunday at the same time. But that's it for England in this World Cup and for this podcast as well.

Make sure that you'll subscribe so you never listen episode, including No Bulls with Kate Cross and Alex. They've been speaking to the Australian skipper or Lisa Healy. So make sure that you check that out on the stream there as well. You'll find lots of material ahead. head of the men's ashes. So so much to enjoy from Test Match Special, albeit without England's women heading to a World Cup final.

Thank you so much for listening. We'll speak to you next time. Welcome to the team behind the team, a new podcast series in partnership with the Open University, where we'll be showcasing the people, the tools and the techniques to help athletes and teams reach elite level. Sports, it's a pyramid and everybody's trying to get to the top.

It's not just my vision. It's a shared vision amongst the team. What is this? This is not the way I see the game. The team behind the team with Katie Smith. In partnership with the Open University. Listen on BBC Sounds.