Test Match Special - Women’s World Cup: England make it three from three against Sri Lanka

Episode Date: October 11, 2025

Daniel Norcross is joined by World Cup winners Alex Hartley and Lisa Sthalekar to look back on England's 89-run win over Sri Lanka. Plus, we hear from centurion Nat Sciver-Brunt.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. Welcome to the TMS podcast, where England have beaten Sri Lanka by 89 runs. We will hear from player of the match, Nat Siverbrunt and Sri Lanka Captain Chamory Atapatu. Plus, I am joined by World Cup winner Alex Hartley and former Australia captain and four-time World Cup winner Lisa Stelaker, where we will reflect on this match

and look ahead to India against Australia. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. So here in Colombo, England have pulled off. their third successive win. They sit atop the World Cup table. They've leapfrogged over Australia, partly because Australia didn't get the chance to play against Sri Lanka.

Their game was rained off, but it was a convincing win by England by 89 runs. They scored 253 in the end, which was at one point probably a little bit fewer than they would have liked, but again towards the back end, a little bit more than they might have thought they would have got. And then with about Sri Lanka,

I'm afraid they did, but they so often do do. This time, not because Atapatu was out after they'd scored some runs. It was more that having made it to 95, with perhaps less well-sung players after that they collapsed. Fion Nguyen has been speaking to England captain and player of the match, Nat Siverbrunt. Nat, congratulations, big win and remaining unbeaten top of the group. Must be a pretty nice feeling as a captain.

Yeah, absolutely. I guess three different games that we've played in terms of, the conditions and how it's gone really, but yeah, I'm really pleased how we were able to adapt today, how we were able to adapt today to the conditions because, yeah, they weren't the same the whole way through the innings, so yeah, really, really pleased that we could get over the line. And your own knock, talk us through the, how you had to pace that innings, obviously losing the open is quite early, a cluster of wickets in the middle and then 49 off the last five. A few different phases in there. How did you have to navigate that?

Yeah, it was obviously tricky at times and the Sri Lankan spinners made it difficult for us to score freely and I never really felt like I could I guess take on the boundary and be comfortable in the conditions until the last five hours like you say but that probably also went with the amount of wickets that we had lost so I didn't want to go too early and obviously they end up all out so yeah really really pleased

with the pacing of the innings, I think. And, yeah, some great learnings for our game here again against Manchester. Did you have any targets in mind in terms of getting to 240, 250, or was it simply a case of, you know, waiting for the conditions and seeing what happened, especially with such a variety of spinners in their attack? Yeah, I'm not very good at guessing numbers, actually. That's not my forte, really, in terms of the batting conditions. But, yeah, I knew that it's great if we could get a partnership together

and really, I guess, be able to accelerate towards the end of the innings. It probably didn't happen as early as we'd like, but, yeah, I guess working together with the expatter that came out to make sure that I guess everyone was clear of what we wanted to do and make sure we'd try and capitalise

in those last five overs and, yeah, it worked out really well in that way. And your fifth World Cup century, not sure if you know, but that is a new Women's World Cup record and a celebration in there for Baby Theo as well. Was that one of your more emotional ones? Yeah, after I did the celebration, I was like, oh, I'm actually feeling a bit like goose bumpy here. Yeah, no, it was really special moment, obviously, to have them here watching as well.

And he did stay up quite late, so yeah, I'm obviously very glad that they've come out to Shilank, to see me and obviously spend some time together. But, yeah, I mean, hopefully it's not the last, we'll see what happens. Yeah, and hopefully you do get some sleep from that late night. And on to the bowling innings, Sophie Ackleston 4 for 17. She's spoken quite openly about how difficult the past few months have been for her after that Asher's series and everything. So for her and for you as a captain must be really pleasing to see her getting rewards for that now.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think in the last few months we've probably challenged her a bit more as well, just to improve herself, I suppose. So there's probably no ceiling on what she could do. so yeah obviously very very pleased for her and yeah she's I mean it'll be a huge hole you know when she does decide to leave the game because yeah she's obviously a huge part of our team and yeah a great leader in our attack and in terms of now unbeat going unbeaten must be nice to have that winning round and a bit of confidence behind you how's morale in the camp yeah really good um yeah

I think we're obviously everyone's really pleased we've had a few nerve-wracking moments in our in our game so far and yeah some that are being a bit more calm so yeah as a great we're really happy I think we've been training really well and lead up to games and preparing I guess the best we can so yeah I'm really happy to to be three from three and being able to go into those two games against india and Australia we'll see at the back end of the group stage but being able to go into those unbeaten must be the aim yeah definitely I guess not necessarily looking too far ahead but yeah it's obviously nice to

win a few games before you come up against those sorts of teams but yeah we'll be looking to I guess learn and always wanting to be better than we were before I suppose but yeah I mean we'd love to be unbeaten when it comes to the end of the

end of the group stage but yeah we can't look too far ahead we'll concentrate on Pakistan first and yeah we'll go from there Nat, Syverbrant, was absolutely delighted with that 117 as well. She might be. It was her fifth hundred in World Cups. Nobody has scored more in women's World Cups.

And Alex Hartley, it was a vital innings. A little bit of good fortune dropped by Probodony when she was on three. But after that, she was just in control throughout. Yeah, absolutely. After that, she was faultless, really, wasn't she? And I think from Siverbroint, Siverbrun's point of you, it's been a long day. That was a good one. That was really good.

best yeah silver broint point and brunt mixed up makes broint anyway let me carry on with what I'm saying I think she never

lets that phase her I know she was dropped early on but it's the way she goes right okay let me start my innings again it was early

she was only on three but she isn't really phased by anything I think the calm head on her shoulders the way she goes about her game she does lead from the front and I know Heather Knight

led from the front for England for a number of years but but just not just does it in a completely different way a really calm way. She's not frightened to have, you know, slips in playing the 45th over if she needs to. I think the way she strikes the ball,

the way that, you know, a strike rate of 100 today just proves that, you know, that's the way she wants the girls to play herself as well. Lisa, it was a really intelligent innings, wasn't it? Because every time it looked like she might be allowed to have some license to go hard, a wicket fell. A couple of wickets fell early. And that's what brought her to the crease at 49 for two. But then that partnership with Heather Knight,

you sort of felt that, right, they're just ready to unleash, and then Knight got out with the score on 109 for 29. And then they just regroup, just be sensible. Then Sophia Dugley and Emma Lam were out in quick succession. Suddenly it's 168 for 5, and Alice Caps the 168 for 6. So every time she was just ready to go hard, she couldn't.

So she had to hold herself back right to the end. How difficult is that for a batter to do? It is tough because you feel like you're in a situation, that you want to go hard. But the main thing is that really good teams or really good individuals, problems solve on the go. You even heard in that answer, she said, I just wanted to keep going full face down the ground.

I didn't want to turn on the ball too sharply. So she assessed the conditions. And even as the pitch was changing throughout the innings, she was doing that on the fly. That's a class player. Other players go, this is what I'm doing. This is the attack. This is how I'm going to go about it.

They don't falter from that plan, and that sometimes is their downfall, but not for Nat Siverbrunt. Once again, there was support from Charlie Dean. The last time England played, she was supporting Heather Knight to get England over the line. This time, actually a really important partnership. It doesn't look huge. It was only 38 runs, but it was important to keep England going to ensure that Nat Siverbrun had a platform from which to launch in the last five overs, wasn't it?

Yeah, absolutely, and that's it. If Dean could stick around for a period of time, which she did, it gives Siverbrunct. Brunt that opportunity at the back end to capitalise on still being out there in the middle. So Dean again has come to England's saviour at the back end of the innings and proving why they're playing the extra batter. You know, had Dean have been, let's say, where Capsie's batting, and then they've got an extra bowler like Filer, they've been a, I think there would have been a batter light. I know Capsie got a four-ball duck today, but she got a ripper of a delivery from Ranaweera

and that's why they're playing the extra batter. There was another one of those Ranaweera over, she picked up three against India and when suddenly she bowled this absolutely monstrous over but you got the ball to spit and bounce and it did for Alice Gapsie. But England got 49 in the last five overs. That was almost entirely down to that civil brunt unleashing 117 from 117 balls.

Only 9-4s and 2-6s because for the bulk of that inning she was just moving the ball around, manoeuvring it into gaps. But at the end she showed what she could do and actually what she one day might do if she gets support from that higher middle order that makes you think that the potential for England's batting there, Lisa, is that it could be so much better. It hasn't fired as a unit for a while,

but you kind of think that if a partnership that can stay with Nat Siverbrun nearer the top of the order happens, they could get the 340s, 350s that could challenge the very best teams. Yeah, I guess the issue for them is Heather Knight and Nat Siverbrunner are the most consistent batters within that lineup. And we've seen sporadic scores from probably the top six. six or seven. Ideally, they're still searching for that perfect batting display where everyone contributes or, and it may be 30 to 40 runs off, you know, 35 deliveries. And all of a sudden

they're getting themselves in a position of 320 quite easily without anyone going ballistic. Just break up, because Matt Jiminas is with the Sri Lankan skipper, Jammarayatapatu. Jami, let's start off first of all with the bowling. You set at the task, you back your bowling side to pick up wickets and do well. How do you rate that bowling performance? Actually, we bowl really good in all the 50 overs. I feel that. But the last three hours, we struggled a bit

and they scored 30, 40 runs. But, yeah, end of the day, I feel our ball has done really good job. And the other thing is we dropped one catch at Siver. So she scored 100, so always catches in matches. And, yeah, we're bowling really good. I know that one catch in this game made a difference, but compared to how you field it in the first game against India, do you feel there has been an improvement, though, from that first game? Yeah, I feel we improve a little bit, but we need to improve a lot before the next game,

and we stick with our plans, and we have to execute our right plan right time. In terms of the batting, you've changed your batting order a little bit through the year. You've changed your opening player. I know you batted at number three as well. Do you think you've started to settle into positions now? Yeah, so I feel my place is opening, so I always have a bad, but like opener. So, yeah, we change a little bit in the bad in order and today as well. So I hope we can change those things and the next game is very important for us.

So we have to talk those things in the meeting room and we have to bounce back in next game. having so much time off in between games, nothing you can do about it, but how much of a difference does that make? Yeah, definitely we are eight days off, so it's a little bit effort for those things. But as a team, as a captain, I have no excuse for those things.

So the end of the day, as a professional picketers, we have to play our game in the middle. That's the most important thing. How's the league's feeling right now? Feeling okay, and I struggle in first over, so I feel okay. So I have two dead rest, and I hope I can back my best performance in next game. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible.

Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. Sophia Eccleston, 4 for 17 in 10-Avers in the process. She took her 30th World Cup wicket. She managed to do that in just 12 matches, which is five matches quicker than any other woman has managed. She's the fifth leading wicket taker across format

in the history of women's cricket. She's only 26 years old. Come to you first, Alex. You're a left arm spinner. How good is Sophia Eccleston, and how good was she today? She's the best the games ever seen when it comes to spin bowling for me.

I think the way she's consistently taking. and wickets, the way she's consistently been world's number one for such a long period of time now, you know, making a debut at 16 and never really looking back and just getting better and better. I think the way she's been able to adapt her game when the game's been adapting around her has been

really impressive. She's obviously tall, she spins the ball naturally. She's got a lot of natural attributes that help her. Don't get me wrong, she gets more bounce than anybody else does because she is so tall, but I think for her the willing to get better as this goes on. And, you know, to be

the fifth leading wicket-taker in World Cup. She could be, by the end of this tournament, the leading wicket-taker in World Cup. And it's only a second World Cup. That's what I mean. It's only a second World Cup. It's absolutely ridiculous. She took 21 wickets in the last World Cup in New Zealand,

and all she would have to do is take 22 in this one. Nat Siverbrunt said she's challenged there, Lisa Stelaker, to make a mark and really to lead this bowling attack. Is she bowling as well as you've seen her bowl? Yeah, I think so. I feel like she's always, as Alex said, had the attributes, been very strong and very quick through the crease, and I think she's had to slowly adapt and go, okay, on decks like maybe

Australia where there's not a lot of side turn, I have to fire it in, but on pitches where you are extracting some spin, how can I vary my pace? And I've seen that development over a period of probably 18 months, and that's probably been because of WPL and teams traveling to the subcontinent a lot more that she's starting to realize that. And yeah, I mean, it's kind of scary to think where she's going to end up when she finishes the game, similar to someone like a Meg Lannning when she kind of burst onto the scenes, just takes the game by the scruff of the neck and whenever they're out in the middle doing what

they do, people stop and watch because it's entertaining. I think the thing with Eccleston is she's already hard. a 10-year international career. The one thing you don't want is her to call it a day early, just because she's sort of been there and done that. She could play for another 10 years if she wanted to. Well, I'm pretty sure England would love her too. She's part of a four-pronged spin attack out in these pitches.

It's been England's formula. They did in Guwahati. They'll almost certainly do it. The next match they play here against Pakistan, and they've gone top of the table. They're three from three. Lastly, on this match, Al, what sort of shape at England in

what have we been able to learn from a thrashing of a below par South Africa scraping over the line against Bangladesh and today's performance I think they've got better in periods throughout the games you know South Africa I'm going to park that game

because it's such an anomaly it doesn't really count Bangladesh they lost wickets in clusters but yet they were gritty and the difference was between January during the ashes in Australia and the Bangladesh game they got over the line when they were under pressure with yes charlie dean was out there with heather night and then today they had a few

more partnerships than they did against bangladesh so slowly but surely they're getting better and they're putting things together yes uh siver brunt just said that she would have liked bigger partnerships and more partnerships but we've got to look at where they were six or seven months ago there were no partnerships and i just think that they're improving game by game Lisa you saw them lucy ash is 16 nil we keep on mentioning it on test match special because it's still something of a trauma for English women's cricket fans. The England side that you've seen in this World Cup, do you see a difference between that one

and the one you saw it in Australia? Yeah, and it's more the attitude than anything. It's not necessarily skill or performance. They just seem more focused on what they need to do. Now, no doubt knowing Charlotte, she's probably cracked the whip a little bit and pull them in line in what the expectations are and when you play for your country and you put the jersey on and the cap on that you've got to play with some pride. I have seen a change in attitude. The only thing that I'm concerned,

Charlotte's trying to take them to a place of a certain style, which will take a bit of time, but everything is tracking nicely. I think the attitude's a thing that's got to change first, isn't it? The skills fundamentally aren't going to be loads better than they were six months ago because it's not been that long. There hasn't been long enough for the fielding to become as good as Australia's, for them to be able to play leg spin or Alana King as well as you would have won or you would like. But fundamentally, during the ashes, we never saw any of the girls running after the games. We never saw, you know, the running between the wickets, the smiling faces,

they're willing to train, that think they've been way better with the media throughout this World Cup. so I just think they're tracking in the right direction and Charlotte Edwards, whatever she's doing, has done a pretty good job so far. They've got one more match here against Pakistan and barring whether you would expect them to win that easily, but their two biggest tests are ahead of them. They're India and Australia,

and those sides play each other tomorrow. It's a really big game. Probably bigger for India than it is for Australia because having lost that game so disappointingly to South Africa and really not having hit their straps really in this tournament, Lisa. They need a performance even if they don't get a victory, don't they? Well, they need their top order to fire. No half-centries in the top five, Smitty Mandanah,

who we all expected probably off the back of the ODI series against Australia, we thought, okay, here's the tournament for her to absolutely own. I mean, she's owning all of the ad campaigns before and after the game. but she needs to perform well. Same with Harman Precourt. I wonder if they'll make a change because Richard Gosh coming in at number eight, she can pat higher?

Like, I'm just wondering, like, can you get her up to six and, you know, or seven at least? Shemima Rodriguez, two ducks, sorry. Yeah. She's the one for me where I think you probably park her

and bring in maybe a rundati ready or Rada Yadav if you want to have that extra bowler as well. Well, that is an issue for them, isn't it, Al, because they've got five bowlers. and so if they're not all firing has been bowling just a couple but she hasn't bowled a lot I know but I think she under bowls herself

I really do I think she's a really effective bowler I think she had a lot of shoulder injuries and things like that so that's why she kind of then they need another bowler then don't they? Well I think you do because I don't think you can afford in this world to have just five bowling options Australia have got nine I think yeah but if your batting's not firing

then you need the extra batter so it's that it's that top of it isn't it? Yeah but that's a funny thing right when I think I mentioned it in one of my previews for the game that you drop a batter, but the batting's not working because I think you're leaving Richard Gosh too far. Amundjok Kor's doing it. And you've got to actually rely on your top order to do the job.

You can't, it's like you want someone behind the keeper because the keeper's not very good. Well, no, the keeper has to be good, right? It's that kind of mentality. And Amadjok's because she's going to be amazing. She's a brilliant, she's a brilliant talent. so I'm not against her, I've been longer in the middle. Australia, though, Lisa, have been remarkable this tournament

and not because they've steam-rollered in their victories, actually, but it's been because they've been put under pressure, and the last game was farcical, from 115 for 8 to put on 106 for the 9th wicket, breaking the hearts of not just Pakistan fans, but every neutral around the world. Yes, I understand. What can possibly stop this tournament?

Duggernaut, because everywhere you look, we're just mentioned, you know, I'm being slightly flippant, but there are genuinely eight bowling options, and Alana King's coming in at 10 and scoring the run of ball 50. Yeah, I mean, they've always boasted wonderful depth in all facets. But India is a side that has pushed them and have beaten them on a regular occurrence. So it may not win series, but they've won matches. And I think what they need is someone like a Harman Prickor, Smitty Mandana, a Richelgosh to go big and take the game away. When you challenge the Australians, they're not challenged very often with the bull.

So they kind of don't know where to go sometimes because their plan A often works. And maybe they go to Plan B and that normally works. But plan C and D, they're never touching that majority of the time. but if you can push them to that, then you're on top. And we've seen them falter a couple of times. Anika Bosch did that in the semi-final in the T20 World Cup. So that's going to be required. It's more from a batting point of view to put it under the bowlers

and then scoreboard pressure and everything else can get to the Australian team as well. To me, I think it's more obvious in T20 that they have a slight lack of role clarity. In 50 over cricket, it translates as, having an awful lot of options, you know, because, you know, we were watching the 20-over, it's like, what actually is Annabelle Sutherland's role here? She needs to be batting at sort of six, not really bowling. Same with Tarlia McGra. In 50-over cricket, it just means you've got five overs from one of them if you want, and they can come in and bat and just score the runs whenever they need them. Exactly. Their team's perfect for 50 over cricket, isn't it?

It is like you are just lobbing 11 robots out on the field and going, if one of your, if one of your malfunctions, don't worry, we've got another one. You know, they are ridiculous. They're such a, there's no surprise why they've been so successful. But they are beatable, surely. Of course they're beatable. They're human and they have bad days and you could

tell in this World Cup there are moments especially when they've had batting collapses that they are a little bit shell-shocked. Luckily for them, they've been playing the weaker teams. If they're playing, hopefully, if they're playing India or England, they're like foot on the throat, we've gotten five, six down early, let's finish it off because

it's almost like Pakistan will got a little bit giddy. and then they didn't bowl too well and they were almost like wow we've never had or been in this situation before what do we do you finish the game you bowl them out but obviously they didn't Is there a danger for India

that the pressure is starting to get to them I mean I see such a talented side and I've been really disappointed with actually the both parts of their game the way that they batted in the top order you've already mentioned some high profile failures but actually at the back end of that game against South Africa their bowl has lost it

and sometimes home advantage can be an advantage, sometimes it isn't an advantage. And I don't know, when you're in India, you do see, you are mentioning all those adverts. It's adverts all the time starring Smriti. You know that the country's really getting behind them. We've heard about sellouts. This game is supposed to be a set out. Is that going to help India's players, or is it going to be just a bit too much? Yeah.

You mentioned, you know, who's more under pressure? I actually think it's India, because if they drop this game, then, oh, they've got England still to come as well. So they have to qualify for the semi-finals. Yes, correct. And there will be that pressure. A bit like Australia in the T20 World Cup back in 2020. There was so much pressure they've got to be in the semi-final.

We want to sell out the MCG. We've got to get them into the final type thing. So I think if there's a little stutter for India, I think the pressure might get to them. So they've just got a hope. And this is where a lot of people I've noticed wanting a Shafali Verma at the top of the order to go, who cares who you are? I'm bombing you straight back over your head. Just a little counterpunch, which they don't have at the moment.

I can understand why she's not here, though. She's not scored runs for a long time. I do get that. I understand. but I also think the people that are crying for have a point as well so it's that double-edged sword for the selectors way. Have they got it right? Have they got it wrong?

Time will tell. I think there's a bigger picture with her. We may not know all the information and what they're trying to, or where they want her to finish up. Well, they've got a very good replacement in particular a while and it's been the biggest game of the World Cup. So far an absolute thriller. Thanks to Alex and Lisa.

That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode, including no balls with Kate Cross and Alex, as well as Stumped with Alison Mitchell, who's been out in India during the Women's World Cup. England are next in action on Wednesday against Pakistan here in Colombo. We'll be live from 1015 on Wednesday morning on BBC Sounds and Five Sports Extra. And you can keep up to date with all things cricket by following at BBC TMS on X and at BBC cricket on Instagram. But for now, it's goodbye.

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