Test Match Special - Women's World Cup: England suffer first tournament defeat to Australia

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Henry Moeran is alongside 2017 World Cup winner Alex Hartley and TMS commentator Daniel Norcross for reaction to England's defeat by Australia at Indore.England opener Tammy Beaumont and captain Nat Sciver-Brunt give their thoughts on the result. Plus, Australia's stand-in skipper Tahlia McGrath and Annabel Sutherland react to the match.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Australia have won a game so brilliantly by six wickets. Chasing down 245 with close to 10 overs left. A quite brilliant partnership worth. 180 of 151 between Ash Gardner and Annabelle Sutherland. Gardner finishes unbeaten on the 144. Sutherland on 98 and Australia continue this incredible run unbeaten in this World Cup unbeaten in the previous one so Australia have beaten England a first defeat

inflicted on Charlotte Edwards and that's have a Brunt side at this World Cup they'll still be in the semi-finals England but what a performance from Australia set a target of 245 England felt perhaps that they were in the game early on three early wickets certainly made it seem that way as Australia fell to 24 for three and then 68 for four but a partnership worth 180 from 151 deliveries between Annabelle Sutherland 98 not out and Ash Gardner 104 not out enough to get Australia home with almost 10 wickets to spare a brilliant performance 10 overs to spare a brilliant performance from Australia who have underlined their credentials as the favourites for this World Cup, once again showing just how good a side they are.

They remain on beaten, England's first defeat alongside me to go through all of the action and we'll get reaction as well from the boundary edge. But I've got World Cup winner Alex Hartley alongside me. Phil Long, our statistician is here too. And Alex, as we reflect on what we've seen, it has been just startling from Australia. Yeah, it has again, just showing why they are best team in the world. Even when they're under pressure, they manage to weather the storm and absorb that pressure and find ways of being on top of the game. It was that partnership of 180. I mean, neither of them ever looked like getting out. It wasn't until the very last over of the game that Sutherland was dropped by Heather Knight, but until then pretty much chanceless.

Both of them out in the middle. It was absolutely brilliant from Australia. And England put up a decent fight, as I say, taking those wickets in the power play, but it just wasn't enough. Well, Annabelle Sutherland took three wickets with the ball, tournament's leading wicket taker. She struggled with a bat in the competition till today, but finishes on 98, unbeaten player of the match today, quite rightly too, as well, sharing that partnership with Ash Gardner, and it has been some performance. Here she is with Nessa. For her complete all-round performance, Annabelle Sutherland is our player of the match. Carlos Brathway is going to give her medal.

Annabal, well played. That was some innings and some partnership. You must have enjoyed that. Yeah, it was pretty fun. It's always good batting with Ashley. She keeps the game moving and, yeah, to be honest, just had a pretty good seat up the other end. Let us tell us about that innings,

because at the start, it looked like hard work for the top three. What were you thinking when you went out there? To be honest, just trying to have some time in the middle. I feel like once you got in, it was actually a really nice. We get to battle on fast outfield and you get value for runs. So, yeah, trying to get myself in and stay busy with partner up the other end. You said you've had a quiet World Cup with the Bats so far. Are you someone that frets or you just know when you get in, you'll cash in?

I know when I'll get in or cash in and just trying to trust my games, to be honest. Yeah, tinkering with a few things mentally and just trying to give myself a best chance early on in my innings. And in Ash Gardner, she's not someone that puts you under pressure. She's also looking to hit boundaries and you never have to worry. too much. Yeah, exactly. And we knew the game was going to keep moving such a hard ground to defend on and we just had to keep batting really. And with the ball, what was the secret? Almost two different roles today. You had to break that partnership up from. What were you thinking when you came on then? Still, I was a little bit in the wicket when I hit the right length

and yeah, it was nice to get rewarded. I think the spinners did a fantastic job, particularly Alana King through the middle. Really stalled their momentum and yeah, picked up wickets throughout. You picked up the wickets throughout the tournament personally yourself. You're the leading wicket taker. You're death bowling. Is there a gut feel? Like with that Tammy Beaumont dismissal. Did you have a gut feel she was coming and you changed to that slow ball? Yeah, a little bit of just trusting instincts. And yeah, I feel like I've got the skills to kind of, yeah, go with any, any batter that I need and change the tempo where I need to. But I think you've got to kind of hit your stockball and feel like that's been working for me. And that final bit just out there was

So just the message to Ash, just finish this, I'm done. Yeah, I was happy for Ashley get done. Well played, magnificent. Thank you. Thoughts there of Annabel Sutherland, chatting to NASA Hussein. She scored 98 not out, picked up three wickets as well in the first innings, and shared a stand of 180 alongside. Ash Gardner, Phil Longar, scorer is alongside me.

Phil some numbers to reflect on the dominance. Well, all about that partnership, really, wasn't it? It was Australia's highest fifth wicket. partnership in ODIs, the second highest partnership in ODIs for the fifth wicket partnership across the history of ODIs. That's Ash Gardner

innings 104 of 73 balls, third ODI 100 a second against England, second at this World Cup. And let me just tell you, 98 not out for Annabelle Sutherland, that's the second highest not out score less than a hundred.

Carolin James West Indies versus Denmark in Delhi, 1997 World Cup. She was 99 not out at the end of the innings. We still talk about that innings to this day. Alex Hartley, halfway stage, England having a decent job, I think it's fair to say, with the bat, particularly at the start and end of the innings. It was the middle phase where they struggled.

Yeah, it was, and that's where they've struggled throughout. It's the middle order, sorry, have struggled throughout. And, you know, the platform that they built in the first 10, 15 overs, you almost thought, here we go, they're on. And then they slowed down when at 2.7 and over from overs, 20 to 30. And Australia really, really put the handbrake on England throughout that middle phase of the game. So it was one of those where at the halfway stage, to be completely honest, 244 for 9, I felt like England were probably about 20, 25 shy it would have proven to be not enough anyway

going into the second innings. Australia went about that, but it just felt like that absorbing pressure and slowing things down almost went a little bit too far for that 10-over period. Yeah, and it was just a struggle to find a way to keep the scoreboard moving in the way that Australia were able to. Yeah, and having said that, though, they didn't lose consistent wickets, and they did give themselves that platform to be able to accelerate towards the back end. In the past, against Australia and against the best teams, we have seen England collapse from those situations.

So on the other hand, there was, okay, we're absorbing the pressure. And then on one hand, it was always like, maybe we've gone slightly too slow. You know, Tammy Beaumont going really nicely for her, 78. But then Sophia Dunkley maybe just putting the handbrake on a little bit too much and adding a bit of pressure to Tammy out there in the middle. Yeah, and that's the problem, isn't it? When that pressure builds, it's quite hard to find a way then to keep the scoreboard moving. It's what that partnership did so.

well between Sutherland and Gardner was that, as we just heard from Annabelle Sutherland, both of them found a way to keep things moving. Daniel Norcross is here as well. Daniel, what did you make of what we saw today? Well, I made of it yet again, whenever Australia find themselves in bother, a different person comes and gets them out of it. I mean, Ash Gardner has got previous in this tournament already, but Annabelle Sutherland's been in woeful form with the bat,

but she was brilliant today with both bat and ball, and just recovering from that start, 24 for 3, 68 for 4. Speaking to Tammy Beaumont, he kind of thought that there may have been, it got a bit easier to bat under the lights. There may have been a bit of that. There wasn't anything really in the way of due. I think England were a little bit indisciplined if you compare the way that, for example, Sutherland bowled, bowling seam,

and the way that Bell and Nat's Sivabreunt bowled, they kind of lost their lines a bit, they weren't as accurate, they gave away wise, they were bowling in and around the leg stump. but you'd have to say that they're just very, very good players, aren't they? And England, I think, were stifled by two partnerships today, one with the ball, which was Sutherland and King,

and one with the bat, which was Sutherland and Gardner. And we say that cricket's a game of partnerships, well, those two partnerships did for England today. We'll be hearing from Tammy Beaumont in due course. Also, the England captain, Nat Siverbrunt, who is preparing to chat also. So we'll bring you those interviews in just a moment, but, yeah, you mention Alana King.

10 hovers 1 for 20 She was both fantastically didn't she She really put the pressure on England She was getting the ball to turn sideways There was actually a review taken Where Tammy Bowman didn't get anything on it The ball just turned so much Then there was one

A few balls later which spat past the outside edge Went away for four buys So yeah she she was brilliant And England you know Struggled against Alarne King Not for the first time Indeed and it's certainly going to be something They're going to have their pale Australia again

Find a way of combating because she managed to really tie them down in this game and they just couldn't find a way in those middle overs despite a really good start between Beaumont and also Amy Jones. Here's Nat Siverbrunt with NASA's saying. What did you think that game got away from you? I suppose we didn't have enough runs. Alana Kingball very well in the middle overs

and really restricted us and it made it very difficult to get a partnership together to the time we played very well for her score. But yeah, I suppose with the lights coming on, I think the conditions did change a little bit, although I guess we bowled well in patches. But it just showed the partnership that Ash and Belsley had there. It just took the game away from us. So, yeah, I suppose we didn't have enough rounds in the end.

Let's talk about that. What do you think was a pass score on that pitch batting first? I think he'd, I mean, I don't really know because I'm very bad at numbers. You got two four for you. Yeah. I'd be happy with $2.80, I reckon. And the other bit you mentioned there, the plane of Alana King, 10 overs, 1 for 20.

What could you have done better when playing her? She's a quality bowler, but what could you have done? I guess being really clear on what shots that you did once to play, so probably playing off the back foot would be more useful. So then working out how to get her to bowl the length that you want to play off the back foot, I suppose. So either using your feet or little paddles or something like that, that would be something that I would be reflecting on myself. On a positive note, Tammy Beaumont finding some real intent and a bit of form

with what lays ahead, that's very important to your team. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, she's been battling really hard in the next to put on a performance like that and she was really focused today. And yeah, I'm really pleased with her that she managed to get a score. And that partnership there, anything you could have done differently, two quality players on a pitch that was getting better, but could you have done anything different?

Um, yeah, we just couldn't control with the ball. Um, I thought we'd, we'd had patches of, um, I suppose, building pressure with dots and ones, but, uh, the full ball kept coming. So, um, yeah, we probably tried a few too many things, to be honest. Um, probably keeping it simple as probably the way to go. Your first defeat in the tournament, is the confidence still there? You still got very positive vibes with what lies ahead? Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, I think we'll, we'll see review very carefully on this game and, and make sure that we do take, the positives from it and the learnings as well but yeah coming up against equality side you have to be really good for the whole game and yeah we weren't as good as Australia today. I guess that's the final

question not just to you but any team in this tournament to win it you're probably going to have to beat this Australian side with what's happened to this England side of late do you still firmly believe you can beat Australia? Yeah definitely yeah I think we'll see we weren't at our best today

but yeah I don't think we've played our best game yet so yeah we'll be Ready for them if we're using the game. Good luck, rest of the tournament. Thank you. If I could just ask Talia McGrath to come up for a few words, please. Talia, many congratulations. Your side, when put under pressure, a digging deep

and putting in some performances. You must be thrilled. Yeah, very happy. Spinners did a fantastic job with the ball, a little bit of a shaky start with the bat, but then Bells and Ash just world-class. So good to watch them. It was clinical, and I feel for Bells a bit,

not getting 100. She thoroughly deserved it. Well, let's start with the bowling. Alana King is an absolute gem for you. As a captain, how do you plan her over? She comes on reasonably late, and today she bowled a long spell. Yeah, I knew she was our key match-up. She's got a really good record against England

and matches up really well to pretty much their whole batting line-up. So at one stage, I was tossing up whether it was 10 straight because she was on fire and we decided to pull her back for some new batters. But she was so good today, hit her length, relentless, and found a bit of turn. as an Australian side and captain I'm guessing you're always looking to improve what did you think of the new ball spell before she came on and Annabelle Sutherland

got that wicket before her? Yeah I think we just missed our lengths a little bit early and got punished so certainly a little bit to tidy up with the new ball and then if we're being critical as well I think that probably got 20 too many at the end we could have been a bit tidier at the death but if you told me 244 at the start of day

I would have been stoked and Annabelle Sutherland she's some cricket a leading wicket taker, a fifeer in the tournament and nearly a hundred, she is absolutely vital to you. She's such a gun, and I think it's scary how young she still is. She's one of our hardest trainers. Her planning is meticulous, and whenever we're in trouble, you sort of just turn to bells, she's that good.

Ash Gardner, goes pretty well on this ground. Do you see any areas of concern as a team, or are you're very happy with where you are going into your last group game? Certainly lots to improve on from this game. We'll review it as any, but I'll see any, but I'm very happy with where you are going into your last group game. as any but for us it's that belief from any position win that we can win so fine-tune a few areas and still keeping that belief and that momentum going and alisa healy where is she is it just a niggle is it something a bit more serious she'll definitely be back a bit of a day by day i'll leave that

in the hands of the physio i think she's she's tracking nicely but a bit of a day-by-day progress many congratulations a superb win well play thank you the tms podcast from bbcc radio five live thoughts of the two captains there chatting to NASA Hussein that Alex Hartley alongside me as is Daniel Norcross Alex would have been a little bit rogue if telling her I went yeah she's out I'm going to captain the rest of the tournament that was always going to be the answer wasn't it a day by day I think both captains spoke really well there

I think Siverbrunt was honest where they you know they didn't have enough runs on the board and there was too many four balls and I think having a captain that comes out and speaks honest truths says a lot you know they have got areas to impress prove on. They're still qualified for the semi-finals. It's not a panic stations. You know, going into today's game, England knew they would have had to have played their best to beat Australia, and they certainly didn't do that. You know, they didn't have enough

runs on the board with the bat, and it was always going to be tough defending that total. I think my one disappointment is that, in a way, this was a free hit. There was no reason to sort of, you know, go into a shell for England, and they got off to such a good start that I thought that that might be what would kickstart them into being really dynamic and yeah you know look if they end up collapsing in the heat and get bowled out for 180 they lose the game but nine times out of ten people

are losing games against Australia anyway once you've got that good start I felt that because not a lot was really riding on this match both sides it qualified this was an opportunity to make a statement and to try things a bit different and instead they kind of got be calmed against Alana King who bowed brilliantly but

didn't see a single reverse sweep attempt didn't really see anybody coming down the wicked out of it didn't see anybody trying to disrupt her lengths and it was about the runs. We knew at the halfway stage 244 wasn't enough and part of the reason for that was because they just had a go slow in the third 10 overs. It was 26 runs they scored in those 10 overs. Australia scored 77 and there was no real reason for it except a bit of timorousness and he kind of felt they they could have just gone hard there and just see what happens because we all know the only way you beat Australia is if you put them under a lot of

pressure and I didn't feel that England did. There is some positives for them today without doubt with the new ball definitely Tammy Beaumont coming back into a bit of form but I just felt that they lacked a bit of instinct there to just have a go well you mentioned Tammy Beaumont she did come back into a little bit of form today her top score of the tournament 78 off 105 and Daniel you've been speaking to her on the boundary edge it looked like you've been struggling with your technique a little bit earlier in the tournament but today you really got going on that six early on tell me a little bit about the conditions out there yeah I think it was quite different to the other day here, a different soil apparently doesn't bounce as much. And yeah, it's probably

what it felt like. Not too much swing early, which was obviously nice as an opener. And then, yeah, I think it just kind of got slower and lower. And then when the lights came on, it looked like it a lot got, like it was coming on quite nicely and looked a bit easier to bat. So, yeah, a big toss probably. Yeah, I was going to ask about that because Nat said at the toss, he was going to bowl first. Was that partly the effect of what happened against India? A bit of you came in? Not necessarily. I think we knew it was like a very different pitch because the soil's different and all the feedback was that it doesn't bounce as much as the India game.

So yeah, we just kind of felt that yeah, it might be better to bat second. But, you know, a toss doesn't dictate a game. You've got to play well for 100 overs and Australia played their 100 overs better than we did. Are you guys getting a bit sick of Alana King? I mean, she bowled absolutely fantastically today and I don't really know what the solution is. Yeah, I mean, she's a brilliant bowler and she showed her class again today. It was probably at that point where you didn't know whether to try and go on the offensive and get her economy up and maybe give your chance away and then, you know, make someone else have to start.

Probably why I went so aggressive when the seam did come back on, but that obviously didn't quite come off. So, yeah, fair play to them. I thought they bowled well. She found the perfect pace, I think, to make the balls hurt and hold in the wicket. And it's what bowlers are allowed to do, isn't it? So words for Sutherland and Gardner at the end there. I mean, it was a consummate performance, but as you said, it looked like it got a bit easier to bat by that stage.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, getting them 68 for 4 was exactly what we wanted with them chasing 240. And, you know, I thought that was a brilliant start from us. But I guess they showed their class, you know, someone like Annabelle Suther and Ash Gardner, you know, the way they've put on 150 there in pretty much no time, just showed how much depth they've got

and how much belief they've got in the way they play. And lastly, it looks. Looks like you're going to be going to Guwahati for the semi-final. That's the most likely outcome. You've got some pretty fond memories of that. You've got some fond memories of thrashing South Africa there as well, who may very well be your opponent. Yeah, I guess we'll have to wait and see, and the ICC will have to confirm who's playing where,

and whether it's one V4 or what, we're just going to have to get on with it and get on the plane to wherever it is. But, yeah, obviously, you've got a good record up in Guwahati. The bowlers will certainly love the pitch up there, and yeah, we'll have to wait and see. Commiserations on the resolve, but well done with the bat. Cheers. one chatting to you, Daniel, on the boundary edge. I thought there was some honesty there, wasn't there.

And where do we think, Alex, having seen what we've seen tonight with Australia's dominant, where's your belief level in terms of England being able to win this tournament? No, I think they can. I think they're going to have to play really well to win the tournament. They're going to have to play better than they did today. But it's not, you know, they've not put together their perfect performance yet. I think in stages they could have applied a little bit more pressure. To Australia with the ball, having four out almost straight away seemed a little bit too easy.

I personally would much rather see Ash Gardner go over, mid on and mid off for four and have a catching opportunity than just being able to hit the ball back down the ground for single after single. And apply a little bit of pressure that way. I think they did brilliantly up top with the ball, Lauren Bell, fantastic alongside Lindsay Smith. But if you're going to beat this Australia side and you're going to bat first, you have to get up and around that 280. they've got to be more dynamic and they've got to be braver I'm afraid because you've got to have a different attitude

and that attitude is here that Australia are the hot favourites to win there's nothing to be lost by losing a game with cricket against Australia except the game but there's something to be won if you do which is auto glory and I don't think that England really embraced those opportunities today

in quite the way they needed to I think I was right about in the field captaincy in the field could have been a little bit asking more questions when Ashgardner started her ring, she actually looked all at sea against Offspin, didn't she? It was quite strange. You thought she could be able to W at any minute.

And perhaps if she'd been cramped a bit more and sort of forced to play shots that she was uncomfortable with, that might have made the breakthrough. They're all ifs and buts, but fundamentally it comes down to just, I think England have got to be braver in what they do if they're going to beat the likes of Australia.

It was all very well hanging in against India. That was the right thing to do. And it would be similar again. against South Africa if they find themselves in Bother if it's them that they're playing

but when you're playing Australia I'm afraid you just have to come out swinging punches Well Anisha Gosh The journalist has tweeted Ah yes That familiar women's cricket World Cup phase

When Australia make everyone else look like they're playing a different sport We've reached that sacred moment When collective timelines agree Just hand them Just hand them The trophy

And save us the suspense Well no Let's on Come on Let's not do that, because we've been at T20 tournaments, and things have gone wrong. And, you know, it would have taken a ball to break that partnership early. I know there were other batter still to come, so that, look, there are weaknesses there. There's still jeopardy, but you've got to, the attitude has got to be really fierce when you play them.

Agree with that, Alex? Yeah, yeah, totally agree with everything that said. So, yeah, England will pick themselves up, and they will try and, in the same way, South Africa, actually, you can try and park what's happened here, as South Africa did when they parked what happened against England. They've gone on a brilliant run since. Exactly. They've been a brilliant team since that defeat, haven't they? And, you know, one defeat doesn't define your World Cup.

We've had teams lose games before and go on to win World Cups. Australia, obviously, unbeaten in the last one. Could go unbeaten in this one with that washout against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka. But the top three teams that have qualified now have all been the top three teams in the competition. Well, my thanks to Alex Hartley to Daniel Norcross and Phil Long. That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. make sure that you're subscribed so you never miss an episode including no balls with Kate Cross

and also Alex and on that feed you'll find all sorts of other delights for you to enjoy building a combined Ashes 11 with Michael Vaughn, Phil Toffnell and Glenn McGraw and also from the Ashes, Stuart Broad sharing some Ashes memories chatting to Stefan Schemilt. England next in action on Sunday against New Zealand in Vichika Patnam

that is an earlier start than we have been seeing as a day match. So 5.15 Sunday morning, set your alarms for that one on BBC Sounds and five sports extra. And you can keep up to date with all things cricket by following at BBC TMS on X and at BBC Cricket on Instagram. Thanks for listening. It's goodbye for now. The ICC women's cricket world cup featuring the stars of women's cricket. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Eight teams.

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