Test Match Special - Women’s World Cup: Rain saves England’s blushes against Pakistan

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Daniel Norcross is joined by World Cup winner Alex Hartley and Sri Lanka cricket journalist Estelle Vasudevan. England avoided a shock defeat by Pakistan at the Women's World Cup, being saved by heavy rain in Colombo. We also hear from England allrounder Charlie Dean.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Let's take a look back on a day when England got away with a very poor performance and were very, very close to having an historic defeat inflicted on them. The first it would have been by Pakistan here in Colombo in the World Cup, but they were saved by the rain. Alex Hartley is alongside me as well as Estelle Vasidavan. I'm Daniel Norcross And we're here to reflect on a day

Of frustration for Pakistan And some real concern for England The story of the day is that England made it to 79 for 7 Before the first rain break came 25 overs into England's innings We'll talk through that inning shortly But the bare bones of the game are

After that we thought the game was going to be abandoned But incredible work by the ground staff That got rid of so much water That play was actually able to resume With 31 overs available to each game deciding that went out to bat and in the remaining six overs available to them they smashed 54 runs with the last few wickets charlie dean and m arlet particularly to the four but that score of 133 was then downgraded to a target of 113 by duckworth lewis 113 in 31 overs and pakistan started

really brightly 34 without loss after 6.4 and then the rain came back and so what looked like an inevitable and remarkable upset has turned into another disappointment for the less fancy teams in this year's World Cup Alex Hartley first of all let's praise Pakistan before we come on to England

let's look at what they did right today because it was pretty much everything yeah they were fantastic weren't they I mean keep the stumps in play it's hard isn't it and that's exactly what they did Fatima Sana was brilliant with the new ball

backed up by Diana Big Yes, Diana Beig, bowled a little bit of licorice, all sorts, but she bowled an absolute worldie to get rid of Tammy Beaumont. You know, this ball nipping back off the surface towards Beaumont, who was leaving the ball outside the off stump. And then everyone else chipped in around the two opening bowlers, and it was a brilliant display from Pakistan. It was thrilling to watch.

England were collapsing, left, right and centre, and you could just see how much it meant to Pakistan. And the fact, again, for the second time in this competition, they managed to get a team 70 per 7 speaks volumes for where they're at. It's incredible, isn't it, Estella? And the way they did it was by attacking the stumps. I mean, one of the more eye-catching stats of the day is that this is the first time since 1908 that an England side,

men's or women's, lost their top seven to bolds and LBWs, five bolts, two LBWs. It's a pretty simple strategy, but it was very effective. Yeah, really. effective and it shows the discipline that they had with the ball as well they weren't looking to do too much Diana Begg was the only one you could

say was a bit wavered everyone else got things absolutely right with the ball we thought they might struggle a bit once Fatima Sana went off the field briefly but then the spinners who came on Sadia Iqbal and Nashra Sandu were as good and put England under a huge

amount of pressure and picked up wickets as a result of that. Sandhu bowled seven overs for 12 rooms. She didn't pick up a wicket but wickets were falling from the other end it is an exceptional bowlet it really was and it was because wickets fell so quickly was that and it was that over that saw the back of nat civil brunt and heather knight from fatima asana that really it put the fear through england's lower midlorder and that is an area i think that was very noticeable now the very best teams and we're probably talking australia here at 39 for four they don't panic because

they trust numbers 5, 6, 7, 8, actually 9 and probably 10. England's problem was that when they saw their big guns go, one after the other, first of all, Nat Siverbrunt tried to cut a ball that was a bit too close to it. But it got that trademark knit today. There's a bit of nip off the surface today. Fatim Asana found it. It was too full and too close to Siverbrun.

She almost punched the ball onto her own stumps. And then at the third time of asking today, Heather Knight, for the eighth time in three innings, a decision review being looked into from her batting finally ran out of luck and was out. And when those two went out in the same over, you just felt that, I don't know, Dunkley and Lamb together,

did they really believe in the patch-up job? Because it didn't quite look like it. And that's when they really got sort of a little bit stuck thereafter because as those wickets fell, they just had to block, didn't they, in order to sort of play for the rain? Yeah, England not only needed to play for the rain, but also needed to build a partnership.

It wouldn't have mattered if they'd have scored 20 off the next 20 overs. They had to build some sort of partnership, or 20 off the next 10 overs, let me not exaggerate. They had to build some sort of partnership and have some time in the middle, but they just didn't do that today. And I think it speaks volumes with Charlie Dean that's batted eight in every single innings for England

is now the third leading run scorer in this competition so far, yeah. Field win has spoken to all-rounder Charlie Dean. Charlie, is there a bit of a sense that you got away with one there? Yeah, I think so. Obviously, it wasn't the game that we were looking for at the beginning of today. You know, we didn't quite adapt to seeming conditions early enough.

I think if we were to reflect, you know, we need to be a bit better. And, you know, it was hard out there when then the spinners came on and we just got a bit bogged down. And, you know, it's hard to really take on really positive options when you lose wickets. So, yeah, I guess it feels like we've gotten away with one today. But, yeah, I think what really impressed me, though, was the fact that we really thought all the way through that game that we could flip the momentum and I think there was a sense of belief that we could, you know, achieve a win if we got a full game. So I guess that feeling, that sense across the group is

really strong. But, you know, moving forward, looking to reflect and learn really quickly going into a couple of tough games against India and Australia and New Zealand at the back end of this comp. In terms of the seeming conditions, it was quite extravagant at the start. I'm not sure what the open is kind of fed back to you guys in the middle and lower order. But was that, did that catch you by surprise, perhaps? I think, I think Pakistan's seam bowlers are exceptional. You know, they read it well and got their wobble balls out and cross seam and, you know, bowled really well and really challenged our top order.

And I'm sure if they'd get bowling as well, they would have challenged the middle. So I guess it's just a credit to Pakistan's bowlers. And, yeah, maybe not what we were expecting sort of seam-friendly conditions. but yeah I think it's all learning and all good stuff to take forward I guess you know we sit here with the benefit that we haven't come away with a loss which maybe we could have been expecting having not said you know the highest total so yeah it feels it feels like we've really benefited from learning without having too much of a negative impact in where we're at in the group which I guess is a bit of a

privilege with the rain. But I think at least we're consistently reflecting win or loss on how we can be better. And I think that's great moving forward as we get deeper into the competition. And in terms of from the Sri Lanka game, obviously in a couple of days ago, it's kind of different in terms of the extravagant turn that we saw. There's a lot of adapting on the job going on here. Yeah, massively. And I think obviously if you want to win games of cricket, you need to adapt quick. The team that adapts quickest to the, to the, to the situation or to the conditions are the ones that win, I think. Also playing a day-night game, you know, conditions change, you know, one hour into the innings and then into the second

innings when there's a bit of due or the lights come on and it's changed again. So it feels like you really have to be on it and communicate about what we feel is working and then, I guess, adapt as it changes. So yeah, it's definitely a lot of thinking going on and, you know, by any means, no one means to get out or not, you know, perform at their best. So as long as we're doing those processes and sticking to that and trying to communicate as best as we can, then that puts us into a good place. But hoping to moving forward, I guess, in Indoor and Vizag, there's been a bit more batting friendly, higher scoring games.

So I guess looking forward to those sort of conditions, but also, again, you know, we don't know what we're going to expect. But yeah, I guess then not putting pressure on ourselves too much to really, you know, go out of rate and chase the game. So, yeah, I think it's all learning and communicating and really trying to be the best versions of ourselves on the given day. You find yourself with quite a lot of work to do with the bat so far in this tournament, but another really useful innings from you today. Is that responsibility something you're looking forward to kind of taking on? And also, what do you think it comes down to in terms of there's been quite a lot of lower order runs in this tournament,

in which you've been a part of. Yeah, I guess, you know, batting number eight and number nine, you've never feel in the game as much back at home. But when there are conditions that are really challenging for batters, you know that, you know, the top order has a license to go and try and really impact the game. And if that doesn't quite pay off, then you know that you have a role at the back end

to really try and, you know, bat the overs and stick with your batting partner for as long as possible, I guess. there's been quite a lot of lower order runs this tournament and we've seen how key that has been to getting up to defendable totals so I guess having that responsibility it feels like a privilege but also a challenge because every time I go out to bat I really want to impact a game so I guess not putting too much pressure on myself

to be perfect every time and every game is different as well and it requires different things from you we saw when I came out to bat it felt like Like, you know, we really need to bat long and bat for 50 overs. And that's a completely different challenge to when we then came back out. And, you know, we wanted to score runs quickly. So I guess being able to, again, that word adapt as best you can when you come in at the back end. And I think as a sort of lower order batter, I have a lot of trust in the teammates that come above me.

You know, I know that they're a world class. and that on their given day that they'll really shine and perform and I guess it's my job to try and stand up when perhaps they don't but yeah I think it's exciting to feel like I'm in a bit of form but equally it's hard work out there so yeah I guess it's nice to contribute in a way

and yeah it feels good to try and step up into that all-rounder status and was that the message from Charlotte when you and Alice were putting that partnership together was it just to bat the overs or was it kind of something that you figured out between the two of you? Yeah, I guess like we sort of found our way as we got into a partnership. You know, we obviously didn't score runs at a massive rate, but it was just communicating what we felt was working. We found, you know, coming down the crease and trying to be as positive as possible, but then, you know, playing back down towards the bowler. And I think we knew, you know, you can't play for rain.

So we knew that if we were to extend our partnership for, you know, 10, 15, 20 overs that we'd be in a game to when we could get a platform and really try and attack the back end. As we've seen, that's been the sort of blueprint for a successful innings and successful, I guess, setting, run set. Run set? Target? Yes. Target producing innings. So, yeah, it felt like we had to really, you know, stick in there. and the longer you batted for, the easier it got.

And, yeah, I guess the more used to conditions you get and then you can hopefully lay up a platform where you can score big runs at the end and really cash in. And lastly, Australia and India up next, does feel like this has kind of been something that we've been bubbling towards in terms of the two favourites. How are you approaching that game? Is it a case of simply parking what's gone today

and taking it as a new challenge? Or is it a bit of a wake-up call in terms of what's to come? I think it's every game that we play, there's learnings, win or lose. And I guess moving into playing, you know, the higher-ranked teams, we know that we have to be hot on it, be on our best. And I think it's a challenge that we're excited for to really see where we're at. And we know as a team that we want to be able to win games from any position. So I think the girls are excited for a little bit more pace on the ball, to be honest.

But equally, that poses its different challenges. So, yeah, I think looking forward, we really want to nail our basics. We really want to be the best team that we possibly can against those teams that are going to challenge us in different ways. So, yeah, hopefully we can start with a positive game against India on Sunday and really, I guess, stick our neck out and show how good we are. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. As for Pakistan, with a bad, they didn't panic either.

I mean, that has been something that we've been saying, can they back it up? Needing 113 or 31 overs when there's a revised target. There's a lot of skeptics around, say, well, 3.66, that's going to be tricky. It didn't look tricky, did it? No, it didn't look tricky at all, did it? I mean, Nat's Suburant opening the bowling's gone at 7 and over.

Lindsay Smith, you know, only bowled the two overs. I think what they did was just capitalise on the bad ball. You've got to know when you've got two seamers in Siverbrun. in Em, Arlitt, there is going to be the occasional wide, there is going to be the occasional short and wide one, and that's all Pakistan needed to do. They had 31 overs to get 113. They had all the time in the day.

And they just played the way that they would have played any other game of cricket. And I was probably one of those people that England weren't under pressure. Pakistan were under pressure because England have lost the game. You know, they've not played well. They've been bowled out or bundled out for a low total against one of the worst teams in this World Cup. but yeah Pakistan still had to win it but they were cruising

they absolutely were I mean I don't know whether the conditions helped them a little bit they got to bowl first and when the pitch felt a bit more responsive and there was some terrific deliveries I mean I don't want to take anything away from the bowling because Heather was beaten on the inside edge time and time again wrapped on the pads Tammy Beaumont

and Amy Jones both got fabulous balls the one from Fatima Sana moved a mile to go through the gate and hit the stump So it felt like there's a bit of juice in the pitch which helped them a bit I mean it's a fairly obvious decision to bowl first at the toss but they made the most of those conditions.

Yeah, I was surprised as well because yesterday's game the track was quite flat it was very conducive to runs and today it was completely different I think it eased up a little bit once Pakistan came out to bed I think she's right when she says that

I mean we had our doubts when Shami mentioned that mid-innings but it did look like it had eased up and surprisingly also the outfield was very very quick in that second innings it was i mean what what more can we say about pakistan really they've don't they've played as good a game as they possibly could they played brilliantly against australia with the ball were undone with the bat those are familiar failings for england they now move away from these conditions they've had a couple of games in guwaharty they've had a couple of games here in colombo they've had

One game against what you might say is one of the other members of the Big Five, South Africa, they won it comfortably in Guwahati. They struggled against Bangladesh. Sri Lanka had their moments against them, but they did well again. Ultimately came out on top of 89 runs. Today, they should have lost. It's almost impossible to understand what's going on with this England team. But they're going to go somewhere very different.

They're now going to go and play on a road. Yeah, it is hard to understand where they're at because they're going to make a semi-final of this World Cup. And then anything can happen. You just got to play good cricket. One team plays bad cricket. They can still win this World Cup. You never know. But they're not playing.

They're not the best England team that's ever played in a World Cup. But what they are doing is they're finding ways to win. Parking today's game aside, which we haven't seen them do for the last couple of years. They're coping a little bit better under pressure. Yes, they've still got problems with the ball coming in towards them.

The inswinging deliveries at the top of the order. And when they're facing spin, having said that, they're moving to indoor where the spin is going to become less effective. So that should be in England's favour. So England have got their easier games out the way. They haven't been the easiest games that they will play. But it's been entertaining and they've found a way.

And I think the attitude that the team have shown, you know, they've not just let their heads fall when they've got in the sticky situations. I would have been really intrigued to see how England would have bounced back after this loss because they would have lost to Pakistan today if the weather didn't get in the worst. way, you know, Pakistan needed 130, and they only need 79 of the remaining 146 balls.

They were, they were going to win, you know, it would have been intriguing to see how England would have bounced back or how they would have been, you know, in the press conference after the game, but now it's almost like, okay, we've, that game was rained out, let's just ignore it, that yes, we've got to have the conversations and the chats around, can we play with a straighter back, could we have played down the ground, absorb pressure for a little bit longer, but it's not as drastic as we've just been hammered by Pakistan. no and actually a lot of those failings that we're seeing against the moving ball

the sort of things that we often talk about in men's cricket about sides coming to England or when they struggle against the moving red ball when England's women are struggling against the moving white ball perhaps in indoor that's where the fact that they hit more balls they play franchise cricket they're more comfortable hitting through the line that's where players like Tammy Beaumont Amy Jones Heather Knight may be able to come more to the four. Would you think that's the kind of positive spin

that England are going to try to look at this with? Yeah, that's how they have to look at it. Isn't it, as Alex said, they have to take it as, they've taken a point of this game. It's a no result. They haven't lost it. So they have to go with that positive intent

because there's no point thinking about what could have happened in this game. You fix what you can fix and then look forward to the game in Indore which is expected to be you know much much flatter track it's india first and then it's australia now india we've talked about and their problems are around a sixth bowler they don't have another bowling option it doesn't sound like their intent on changing their set up and that does mean that if you get after one bowler

or two then there's nowhere really for harm and preach to go to um Alex and will that be sort of on the minds of England's batters that maybe target a particular bowler it could be Dicti for example or Amundjot and get after them Yeah absolutely and each individual batterer wants to take on a different bowler So if a batter gets in and they get set

Then you absolutely take down a bowl And make them bowl that fake sixth bowler That they've got, make Harmon-Preet bowl Make her bowl somebody she wouldn't want to bowl Wouldn't normally bowl So going into an LDI with five bowlers Is a risk But especially on a flat surface

so we'll see how India respond to the game against Australia. It's going to be a big one that England against India. If they do lose it and they lost against Australia, then they would find themselves potentially in a pickle and they could find themselves needing to beat New Zealand in their last game in Visika Patnam. There's a lot of games to be played before then, but it is now looking increasingly likely, Estelle,

that our bottom three is going to consist of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. There are quite a few more games to be played. here in Colombo, is there any chance whatsoever that we can get an emergency message out to the ICC today? Can we start the games at 11 here, please? Yeah, unfortunately, that's probably not going to happen, is it? But Sri Lanka will be the, Sri Lanka and Pakistan will be the teams that will be majorly affected by it. Sri Lanka have got two games remaining. Pakistan have got three. I would think the Sri Lanka-South Africa game is also in danger.

It's to be played this Friday, given how things have been this week. It's very difficult to see like a full game getting played on Friday. Thanks to Alex Hartley and Estelle Vazidavan. That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you're subscribed, so you never miss an episode,

including No Balls with Kate Gross and Alex, as well as our review of the tournament so far. England, our next in action on Sunday against India in Indoor. We'll be live from 1015 on 10.15 on. Sunday morning on BBC Sounds and five sports extra and you can keep up to date with all things cricket by following at BBC TMS on X

and at BBC cricket on Instagram. Thank you for listening and goodbye for now.