Test Match Special - Women's World Cup: The Final Preview

Episode Date: November 1, 2025

Henry Moeran is joined by Alex Hartley, Daniel Norcross and Ffion Wynne to look ahead to India's date with destiny against South Africa in Navi Mumbai.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. match special podcast. It is almost women's World Cup final time and what a final we have to look forward to. We're in Navi Mumbai, the venue for what will be a blockbuster occasion as

India take on South Africa. Well this is Henry Moran overlooking the scene here in Navi Mumbai where the tukes are driving, the lorries trundle up and down the highway and And around about half a mile from here, history is going to be made. We are going to have a new winner on the Women's World Cup trophy for the first time since 2000 as India take on South Africa. Two surprises in the semi-finals to extraordinary games of cricket and so much to look forward to over the course of the next half an hour or so. We'll be getting some thoughts from both sides of the camp from Abyshech, John John Willa and also for Douce Munda.

and here our team alongside me surveying the scene. Alex Hartley, a World Cup winner with England in 2017, test match specials Daniel Norcross, and also BBC sport cricket writer Fionn Win. First and foremost, Alex, we have to look at India. We have to talk about what an occasion this is going to be and the fact it could be game-changing for the women's game, not just in this country, but around the world.

Yeah, yeah, whatever happens, it will be game-changing. but if India win, it's kind of scary as what will happen to the women's game. They'll probably become this juggernaut, a bit like Australia where they just dominate women's cricket. Moving forward, it's really exciting, but also pretty scary, actually. So they win the competition, just think of the money that's going to get pumped into women's cricket. Think of the thousands, millions of young kids that are going to be inspired by watching this team. It's a really exciting opportunity for India, but the pressure. There's so much pressure around India now.

There is, Daniel, and there is suddenly this sense that the eyes of 1.5 billion people, as they were in 2023, on the men's side as they headed to Armoured about to take on Australia, suddenly trained on the D.Y. Patil Stadium on Sunday afternoon. Well, it is, and it will be sudden as well, because if you talk to people around here, there hasn't been a massive amount of awareness of the tournament so far.

Do you not think? No, absolutely not. speaking to some people yesterday I asked them specifically about that semi-final and they went oh yeah that game yes that went viral didn't it but now they hadn't really been aware particularly of how their women have been going up to that point but massive occasion a place like this when something massive happens when they beat Australia it was all over the news it dominated the news cycle and people very very rapidly shift their attentions to whatever's

happening whatever they're being bombarded with and what they had been bombarded with was incredible stories, redemption arcs, left right and centre, the captain Harmon Preet Corps, who came from a very, very modest background. Jamima Rodriguez, a Christian who had been dropped earlier on. The stories coming left right and centre, Dipti Sharma, a very humble woman from a humble background, and suddenly it's the stories that come with the players involved, that suddenly their backgrounds are made available, people are aware that you can make it to the very top in Indian cricket, and you can earn eye-watering.

sums of money nowadays with the Women's Premier League, which is only going to get more and more investment, whether they win or lose, frankly, tomorrow, and then suddenly cricket becomes a legitimate profession, it becomes something that fathers want their daughters to get involved with. This is a process that won't happen overnight. I don't think we're going to have an Indian juggernaut in the next five, ten years, because players have to be created and developed. But what will certainly happen is that gradually, and probably with a bit of a burst of attention having come now, there will be changes. And those changes won't just necessarily be in cricket.

You know, talking to some of the sportswriters around here, they say that a big boost for a woman's sport can help other women's sports as well. It can legitimise sport as an activity for women and young girls to play. So it sort of goes beyond just cricket. It can creep into society and wider society. I don't expect those changes to happen overnight, like I say. But it could be the start of a process that has wide-ranging consequences.

Something that really struck me, Fion, yesterday morning. The morning after the night before from that semi-final was the gym at the hotel accommodation where we're staying. I noticed the highlights were on the television, and slowly but surely, every single person in the room stopped what they were doing and was watching that in some Jimima Rodriguez. And it felt as though, hold on a minute, this is a moment, this is a moment, this is huge, everybody's involved. Yeah, and it's felt like with this Indian team in particular

with a lot of these players, the likes of Harman Precourse, Mishimand and Adipti Sharma, it's always felt like a matter of when and not if in terms of they'll win something. So they came so close in 2017, they came close in 2020, and it was always just a case of once they get over the line, that'll be it. They could go on and get that monkey off their back,

get the pressure off themselves, and they could potentially fly. And that semi-final was, we were all saying, when we were watching it, one of the best games we'd ever seen, in terms of the quality of the batting, in terms of the skill, in terms of the occasion. And for Jemima Rodriguez, I mean, think of what her limit is now in terms of, you know, how much we see Smriti Mandana's face on billboards and adverts. It could, I mean, she could go stratospheric from here.

Well, let's hear a little bit of that amazing post-match interview with a very emotional, Jamima Rodriguez. Firstly, I want to thank Jesus because I couldn't do this on my own. I know he carried me through today. I want to thank my mom, my dad, my coach and every single person who just believed in me throughout this time it was really hard these last whole month but it just feels like a dream and it's not sunken yet.

Alex, it was one of the great games of cricket. I think it, well, it was definitely the best run chase I've ever seen. You know, it broke records. That run chase, I sat there at the time. I was like, I think this could be the best game of cricket, women's cricket I've ever seen. And I think I stand by that. the occasion, the knockout

occasion of it, the fact that they were playing Australia, the fact they managed to get over the line, it was just an incredible game of cricket, it was entertaining, you know, the first ten overs of the Australian innings, we were sort of like, okay, well let's go for dinner, we know what's going to happen. And then halfway through dinner, as we're watching it, were like, hang on a

minute, something different's going to happen here. Australia are going to lose, nah, they can't lose, India, probably bottle it, and they didn't. You know, they bottled the runchase against England and they learnt so many, we must have learnt so many lessons from that because they then played Australian didn't do what we all thought they would

do. I mean it's amazing isn't it? A couple of years ago we were at a T20 semi-final when India played against Australia. The two batters at the crease that were up for a really big run chase were Harmon Preet and Jamima Rodriguez and they were cruising to victory

and then Harman Preet got a bat stuck and was run out and Jemima played a Draft shot to a ball that was well overhead height and they were devastated because they would probably have gone on to win that world Cup and then the two batters come back together and they have the most consequential partnership. It's a proper redemption arc

but just on the subject to the chase generally, when Jemima was dropped on 82 they still needed 131 to win. She scored 45 of the last 131 runs. We must remember the other people involved in that chase Risha Gosh, Amundjot at the end

Dipti Sharma because you don't chase 339 if someone gets 127 not out of 130 something without all the other others contributing as well. She anchored that innings brilliantly, but she needed support. And they will get forgotten in this narrative because of Jemima's big, not because she got the hundred, because of how it happened, because of the tears of the end. But what made that one of the great chases was that it was a team chase. Every single person in that lineup

struck it faster than Jemima Rodriguez. And that's what made 339 possible. Do have a listen in the Nobles archive with Alex Hartley and Kate Cross to an interview with Jamima Rodriguez because she's a fascinating character, bubbly, entertaining, plays the guitar. She's got so much to her story. But Alex, I want to ask you about Harmon Precourt, the captain of this India side, because she's somebody you've played alongside in domestic cricket

at Lancashire. And she's a really fascinating character to me. Yeah, she is. I mean, it looks like she's trying not to lose her call every 10 minutes these days, which is probably quite a good thing. You know, we saw it in 2017 when she got her century and she shouted at her partner at the other end when she was batting.

You know, we've seen her lose her head many and many times on the cricket field. But this tournament, we've seen a different side of her. She's smiling, she looks relaxed, she looks like she's trying to enjoy the game. But she's a person that, you know, she's failed way more times than she's succeeded. She lives off the back of that knock in 2017, you know, and she's not really done all that much since. but the other day she got a vital run a ball 80 and helps India get over the line

and she's still so good she leads from the front and she is somebody that you want on your team it's got to be her last 50 over World Cup got to be her last ODI she'll want to go out on a high if they win wouldn't surprise me if she hangs up the boots

what'd she like as a person she's great she's great fun she's so so much fun to be around I mean, there's just a couple of memories that stick out for me, but she first joined our team, obviously had a bit of jet lag, on the team bus fast asleep, so I'm drawing on the bottom of her feet. And I thought she's going to turn around and slap me in the face,

but she just looked at her feet, laughed, went back to sleep. She was just like, I'm going to concentrate on myself. Fiona, as characters and stories and backgrounds, this Indian team, from a writer's point of view, it's a dream, isn't it? The whole story is? Yeah, the whole thing is a whole blend of characters and a whole blend of people and backgrounds. And just speaking about Jamima Rodriguez in that interview, you know, she said she grew up playing cricket on the streets with her brothers when she was four years old because there were no women's teams and she didn't know that women's cricket could be a thing. So it's quite apt in that sense that she is now part of the change, part of the, you know, things coming full circle for her.

I think that was part of the emotion, you know, the fact that she was in Mumbai. There were so many people. You could see her picking out people in the crowd to thank and to. she had her dad and her brother's there at the end and you know it's just in terms of what it can do and in terms of how things are going to change as Alex said this is almost feels like a new world order is on its way

there's a really lovely picture you can find on Twitter of the very young Jamima Rodriguez in 2017 waiting with friends all in India kit boys and girls for the 2017 India team to come back to arrive at the airport after they'd lost that final and there she is and you can see the older

Jamima but also the young enthusiastic desperate Jamima the one who put on the kit and said to herself I'm going to be that player I'm going to represent India you've got a story like that we heard story the other day about Rada Yadav who's an unsung member of this team she played a lot as a fielder

basically this come in right at the very end actually to do some bowling that the money that she got from playing WPL she siphoned into making it to buying a grocery store for her dad who has very modest background in Mumbai. So, you know, the consequences of their success filter into wider society in this way and the background stories of it are just, there's stories of, I guess, fulfilling dreams. And that's what I guess we all love about

sport, isn't it? Because you can get, you could, if you win a World Cup, I mean, there is no greater dream to be fulfilled. And if you do it for India for a nation of 1.4 billion, then it's completely nuts. Do you know what I'd love to happen at the end of this World Cup is for girls in India not to have to pretend to be boys to play cricket, that they can actually be girls moving forward. Whatever happens tomorrow in the final, India win, they lose. I just hope that young girls can grow up wanting to be girls and play cricket rather than having to cut their hair short and pretending to be boys. Because we have heard stories of this, Shafali Verma. It happens all the time. I just hope that girls can be girls and play cricket rather

than having to be someone else. We have heard, you know, in discussions with journalists here, Daniel, over breakfast the other day, over a coffee, we were chatting. And it was the conversations in comparison to say an English or Australian cricketer where, you know, you go to school and there are opportunities to play sport and there's opportunities to play cricket, whereas actually hearing stories about dads having to pretend they weren't taking their daughters to go and play cricket because it wasn't seen as something that was a legitimate thing to be doing. Yeah, dads and uncles and the amount of time that they put in secretly training up their daughters to be good at cricket. It's kind of crazy. The struggles that people have in this part of the world are different. Everybody's struggles. They exist.

They're legitimate. You know, Australian cricketers don't not struggle. Their biggest struggle is that there's so many very, very good players in Australia that getting into that side requires an enormous amount of dedication. There's all those stories. There'll be those stories in England as well. let's face it, women and girls don't get the same sporting opportunities, and that is changing. But here the stories are absolutely heart-wrenching some of the time, you know. These are struggles that are almost unfathomable for people of our country.

Let's hear from Abyshek John John Waller, former IPL star, key part of our commentary team across this tournament, who knows what the impact could be if India do win this tournament. This has got everyone excited in India. And earlier, we go back five or seven years. I mean, there was following for women cricket, but only from people who love cricket. But now everyone follow women cricket in India. And that's what WPL has done.

That's what this young team has done. They've bought such a huge crowd. And the atmosphere on Sunday, it will be 1.5 billion people glued to their TV. 40,000-odd people in the stadium, so many people outside the stadium. Yeah, it'll be electric. I mean, it's difficult to describe those sort of atmosphere in India. Obviously, the game is growing at a rapid pace. cricket for women is growing at a rapid pace.

In the last four or five years, we have seen some huge changes. But if India managed to win the World Cup, I mean, we were talking about the commercial aspect and how it's going to change completely for women all over the world because it's all going to trickle down. And we know how much money BCCI brings to the table in men's cricket. And I wouldn't be surprised if that game changes completely for women cricket as well. Well, in a moment, we will be reflecting a little bit more on South Africa

because there are two teams in this final, of course. But don't forget, Test Match Special will be bringing ball-by-ball coverage of that final from 9.15 on Sunday morning from here in Navi, Mumbai. And don't forget also, Ashes coverage begins not long to go now for the Men's Ashes. Lots of build-up material on BBC Sounds via the Test Match Special podcast. Just hit the subscribe button. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500

kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters, and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. It's easy to think

that there's only one team in this final, particularly when you're here in India and all the headlines and the billboards and everything else Fion, but South Africa themselves, have an opportunity and it is a big opportunity and for them they will see history beckoning. Yeah, it's for either team, it is their first World Cup win and for either team the consequences of it could be game-changing.

South Africa, you know, this is their first 50 over final, reached two T20 finals in a row and have been heartbreakingly defeated in both of them and you can really see the emotions on the faces of their players when those things happened and, you know, Laura Walfour is their kind of, she's their leader, she's their inspiration. I was thinking of her knock against England the other day, that 169 is how lucky we were to see three great centuries

across those semi-finals in Wolffat, Litchfield and Jamima Rodriguez, and that's testament to, A, how far the game has come, but just in terms of the skill that Southca have on offer, I don't think any of us expected them to beat England, let alone to beat them in the way they did. It was so comprehensive, I think the issue for them will be, have they had their final? you know was that their complete performance against england and can they back it up you know without

relying perhaps relying too much on warfart and cap in front of a crowd which let's be honest there's not going to be many people cheering for south africa in that crowd i don't think there'll be anybody there for south africa especially when the friends and families are in the corporate boxes it's it's going to be a wild wild day and a night and it's how south africa cope with that pressure a bit like india as we spoke about but you know south africa for me I was wrong about them, you know. They beat England. I didn't think they had a chance,

but they outplayed England in a way that I just didn't think they were capable of. If they can stand up again against India, then they have such a good chance of winning this World Cup. They've had heartbreak of being knocked out in semi-finals, of finals of finals of World Cups. They know what it feels like. Fiance said, have they had their final?

I think they'll have learned so many lessons of being knocked out of those World Cup finals. So moving forward, they'll kind of know how to stay in the game and what it feels like to be on the end of losing those massive moments. But somebody's got to win. And it's one of those. It's like, who are you backing? I think South Africa could win if they bat first.

I don't think they'll be able to chase. But who knows? I've been wrong. The whole tournament. Let's hear from journalist from South Africa for ESPN. Crick Info Ferdos Munda, who thinks that history could be on the cards for the South African side. Can they do it? You'd have to say yes, because they've done some incredible things that we didn't think was possible, you know, even up until a few days ago.

But I think where South Africa have to be careful is that what happened to them at the T20 World Cup the first time they qualified for a final when they beat England in the semifinals here at home was that they were absolutely surprised and shocked beyond measure. Nobody could believe that they were in a final. Then they were in a final against Australia. And that was just complete emotion, playing in front of a home crowd. everybody just celebrating the fact that women's cricket was really coming to the attention of the majority of South Africans. So I think we can write that one off, as you know, the emotion got the better of them. But it's last year's T20 World Cup final that I think will be a good reference point because South Africa played one of the games of their lives to beat Australia in the semifinal and then just faded away completely against New Zealand. And listening to Laura Wolf out after the England semifinal this time, she said, we really need to think about that because we don't want to play.

the final before the final. So we've got to make sure that there's enough reserve in the tanks, that there's enough energy, enough game plan, enough tactical awareness to be able to go and approach the final like it is a bigger game than the semi-final, even though the semi-final is so important. Well, it'll be fascinating to see how it all plays out on Sunday afternoon. Daniel, what about the significance for South Africa? Well, it's in Orbus. We were there for the T20 World Cup, and we visited the High Commission. We met some girls from the townships, didn't we? And we were, um, we were. We were, we were, We were exposed to what they have to undergo,

the struggles that they have to undergo to get into that side or to be, just to be accepted and to be allowed to play any kind of sport. There's similar kind of problems and barriers to entry in South Africa as there are here. And there's a whole bunch of women who've also got lengthy backstories.

There are five players in that side who have played three semi-finals running. Sunilis, Ayabonga Kaka, Marizanne Kapp, you know, wolf fart herself. these people, they've been struggling for ages to get to where they now could be which is the World Cup winners and I think, I genuinely think

they've got more than a puncher's chance we talk about Jamima Rodriguez innings the best innings of the tournament has been Laura Woolfarts and they're going to play at the DIY Patel Stadium which has got very, very good conditions for batting the strength of both of their sides lies in their batting it could be a shootout and with players like Marizanne Cat

Wolfheart. We've got so much experience. Tasman Brits who has been unfurling hundreds for fun this year. She's had five of them this year. Chloe Tryon's been around the block, Sune Elise. You know, they have got experienced players who have also got a massive motivation

and in a way the pressure is not as on them as much. The insanity and the fervid atmosphere that we witnessed the other night against Australia is only going to be double in a final. Now that can help or it can hinder. And there could be a clarity of thought that comes with the South African experience

as well as a fact, as I've said, they've been through it. More of their players have actually been through this ringer and this disappointment than the Indian team. So I'm certainly not ruling them out. Well, remember in 2023 when Pat Cummins said the best thing about a loud crowd is silencing them. So if South Africa can kind of do something similar, get India on the back foot early, it's amazing how quickly that crowd can go quiet and can start to get a bit nervous. And that could, you know, that could impact India

and how they, you know, especially, let's say, in the pressure of a chase, for example, if South Africa are able to put runs on the board again. But I think it's so interesting to see how, you know, when they get this opportunity, South Africa, how they handle it. But for somebody like Marazan Cap is their kind of big game player. You know, she is somebody who kind of embodies everything

that South Africa has been through. You see her celebrations when she's getting Heather Knight and Amy Jones out in the first over. We all thought she was going to combust with just how much it means to her. She's been playing for South Africa for so many years, and yet every single time the anthem is played, she's got tears streaming down her face. This is probably more than likely her last 50 over World Cup as well.

So the parallels between her and Harmon Precourt, for example, there's so much riding on it. And, yeah, it'll be emotional, whichever team comes out on top. This could be quite an interesting dynamic, Alex, in terms of who actually holds their nerve. It's not, you know, who bottles it, but there is an element of both sides look at this thinking this is such a massive chance and go back to South Africa in that T20 World Cup against New Zealand a year ago

and they did rather bottle their opportunity. They've both bottled so many games like they really have because they've not, you know, women's cricket, we don't play under pressure enough. So when it comes those big pressure moments, look at Australia, under pressure, they're human. They're a side that we were like, hang on a minute, they're dropping catches. It's like we've never seen that happen. We're seeing sour faces from the Australian team

because, you know, they've not been put under pressure a huge amount of time. Keep that smile off your face as you say that. Yes, sorry, unlucky. It's just, you know, I think precious situations do funny things when you don't know how to cope with them and you're not in them as much. India will have played in front of bigger crowds than South Africa because of the WPL.

They'll have that experience of playing in front of thousands and thousands of people. They know they've got poster girls left, right and centre in this team, especially Mandana, not even captain, probably the next captain, but she's everywhere. You know, and she manages to cope with the pressure, so she'll have spoken to the girls on how to do that. I really do think it's who can hold their nerve for the longest. Yeah, I mean, it has to be, hasn't it? And I just have a sneaking suspicion that, like, someone like Marizanne Cap, I don't know if she really feels nerves. She reminds me a little bit of Ash Gardner, who was one player who held it all together for Australia.

She didn't show any nerves at all. Marazan Cap's just up for the fight. She just wants it so much. There's actually quite a placid calm in some of those South African players. Laura Woolfart is the embodiment of composure, isn't she? She's quite extraordinary. But the problem is it's cricket. So you've only got to make one mistake.

And because I think this is going to be a batters game, this is the key. It's not going to be a bowler's game. It's going to be a batters game. So the big batters for South Africa will have to fire, India just got that little bit more depth so they can afford the odd more mistake. So I guess what we're going to look at is the big performances from the big players might have to be that little bit bigger from South Africa than they have to be from India.

I worry about South Africa. I really do. They must be the only team that's been bowled out for under 100 and made a World Cup final. Gotta be. Twice. Twice. I do, I just hope to God they turn up. They feel like a team that they're either all there or none of them are there. They all have to be there on Sunday and they all have to want it. Just please don't get bowled out for under 100 for the third time in the tournament. We want

a good final feel and that's the thing and the crowd will want a good final. We want to see that amazing atmosphere that we had here a couple of nights ago. Yeah, you want it to be competitive. It's brilliant in the first place that there's going to be a new name on the trophy for the first time since 2000. So that's

a massive tick in the box in terms of how other teams not just Australia have developed and have kicked on. But I think the last thing we want is a one-sided final again. The T20 in 2020, where India reached the final against Australia at the MCG and I thought this could be a huge occasion, this could be game-changing, this could be the two best teams. And then India were kind of skittled out in their second innings and there was never really a contest in it.

the in 2023 wasn't quite the same between south africa and australia but there was always a sense of yeah australia have got this i think not having australia in a final is a very very good thing because there's there's so much more jeopardy there's so much more we're seeing here and we can't decide who we think is going to win and that's exactly what you want and yeah it could still be one-sided india could handle the pressure brilliantly and smash it and get themselves over the line and everything you know goes to plan for them but if south africa turn up if we see the law of warfart that quiet determination that we saw from her just a few days ago, if we see

a fired up Marizan Cup, then yeah, a competitive game will be the biggest thing of all. If we see a fired up Marizan Cap. Just a word though on the fact that we've got to kind of have a new winner. It's a weird tournament cricket, isn't it? Because we've been out here for 37 days

or so. And for most of the time, this World Cup just went through exactly the same script and we even got ourselves to the same semi-finalists, England against South Africa, Australia against India Australia winning every game and we thought

has the women's game moved on at all the minnows didn't get the opportunities perhaps to land the big blows because of the weather there was all sorts of disappointment really about the way the tournament had just kind of rather predictably progressed to where we got to

with no great jeopardy over who the final four were going to be and we all said yeah but what if we got two really good semis and a great final we've had actually two really good semis albeit one that

that was quite one-sided, but saw one of the, well, an innings for the ages, and then the greatest chase we've ever seen. So it's kind of, it's set up, don't you think, to finish on a high? I hope so. I really do. One element of all of this, Alex, that interests me is the comparison. And I don't like to necessarily compare the women's and the men's game in, you know, necessarily sort of slightly lazy ways. But it does feel that the parallels between the India side heading to where I'm about

in the men's competition, against Australia a couple of years ago and the pressure they would have felt in that game is there any replication for the women in this game and that sense of history on their shoulders? Well, one team's playing in front of 150,000 people and one team's playing in front of 30,000 people it's a bit different, isn't it?

And I think, yes, the pressure of having millions and millions of people watching. I think it's a real shame. It's being held at this stadium. I really do. you're starving the chance of people going to watch a fantastic final. Yes, we didn't know India would be there. Yes, if we're going off history, India probably shouldn't be there.

So you can't move the final just because the team's got there. I understand that. But yeah, look, there's kind of a comparison with the fact that you've got so many people watching. I guess so many people will just be watching in a different way. I think actually there is a comparison, but it's not the same, nothing like the same. And we know because we've been at both World Cups. And in the Men's World Cup, it was fever pitch. You just couldn't move for programs on TV about that World Cup and about the men.

Virach Koli Rohit Sharma. They were everywhere. And they proceeded to win every game. And so the whole country just got built up and built up and built up. There's massive moments of expectation. I haven't felt that at all in this tournament. I haven't felt that the eyes of the nation have been on the women. they also lost three games

so there was almost like if there was talk about them there was actually a lot of criticism about them from the same kind of journalists that frequently criticise the Indian women's team within India and so yeah I don't think they do go into that game in anything like the same set of circumstances

as the Indian men I think they've got a bit more of a free hit I think what happened against Australia has changed the mood and has given them that bit of momentum and that you know we can do this now whereas I think actually what happened in the Men's World Cup is that India had a pro session. It looked like a coronation.

It did, and actually the whole competition was sort of designed in order to make life as simple as possible for India to get to that final. They got there, perfectly deservedly, is the best team in the competition, and then they got ambushed because you can get ambushed by Australia with the fact that they're terribly good at cricket.

Field? Yeah, I think there have been some things that have favoured India. forget they played their last two group stage games and they were guaranteed to play the semi-final at the venue where the final is going to be so they were a lot more familiar with the conditions there in the atmosphere than australia were i'm not saying that's why australia lost they made a lot of mistakes um but that is you can't deny that that is an advantage um but in terms it's just whether again i think with the men's team i don't know whether you know whether it was

that expectation got to them but for me that's just how much more of an opportunity it is for South Africa in terms of you know the pressure's not on them it's almost it's almost a free hit for them so it's whether they can embrace that freedom and embrace that challenge of not letting go but just kind of telling themselves well this isn't pressure this is an opportunity and that's so exciting for a South Africa side I spoke to Nadine de clerk earlier in the tournament and she said to me that you know it's gone from us going along to tournaments thinking we can compete going along to actually believe we can win and they'll go into this final Alex thinking they can absolutely win but it's a one I can't really call myself but where

do you see it going I refuse to comment I've been wrong so many times so I'm not saying you've been one mistaken so many times so I'm not saying anything Henry Daniel who's got it I think it'll be India but the thing is I just keep on also having this suspicion that South Africa have been so close, so close, so close. And their men won the test championship this year. I wonder if it's just written in the stars. It could be double world champions for South Africa. What a thing that would be. I think I'm going to back South Africa too. I just think in terms of nobody gave them a chance against England, let's be honest. Not just Alex. She wasn't the only one. We all thought that England were going to win.

That is what they can do when they're underdogs and why not embrace it again for the final? And it's exciting to think that between the four of us, nobody seems to know what's going to happen and that's lovely. Yeah, I was totting up our punditry yesterday and we predicted the two finalists, didn't we, before the semi-finals. And if you think of it as therefore eight choices, there was one that was right.

Al went for India to beat Australia. The rest of us said it was going to be in England-Australia final. So I'm sorry, dear listener, you've managed to find us have some of the worst pundits. known to mankind. Well, you know, we weren't the only ones, but no, I mean, I think there's plenty more of a body of evidence to suggest we fulfill those particular descriptions. One thing that struck me in terms of the potential impact of all of this is chatting to one of the photographers who follows the major ICC events, and he was saying that, you know, after the Men's World Cup, when they won in 2020, the parades down Marine Drive in Mumbai, he might have to delay his

flights home if India win this game because the reaction is going to be stratospheric if they do well the you know the parades are already being planned aren't they for this India side for if they win or it feels like for when they win because their plans are being put in place so they better go out there and they better win it well there was an enormous billboard I won't mention the brand you can probably guess but Smitty Martin are holding a bat and it just said just do it there is a little bit of a sense of that now for India there is but I don't like that sort of thing I I mean, I'm very English in these matters, and that's tempting fate to me.

You keep all your plans quiet, and if it happens, make it look like it's spontaneous, because otherwise, I mean, you're just tempting terrible disappointment. And you know, you asked about who we think's going to win and who we want to win is the other part of it. You know, I think if we're here, an India win, it's going to be one of the most spine-tingling and incredible experiences that we're going to get to experience. but yeah I suppose the head therefore is with South Africa but the heart might be with India Yeah, it's an interesting one I just can't call it I can tell you how I want to win India

Why I think what it'll do for the women's game will be game changing What it'll do for women's cricket in this country will be game changing So therefore I would like India to win to change women's cricket moving forward Yeah it's so interesting the implications of all of this Fiona And you've written about it on the BBC Sport Webber website and there is just a sense that we could be on the cusp of something really quite spectacular if India win and the effect it could have. Yeah, and let's not forget the prize money for this tournament is bigger than it's ever

been. It's bigger than it's ever been in a men's competition, I think, as well. So, you know, you can say that, all right, well, maybe India don't need that huge amount of money, maybe it will do more for South Africa if they're the ones who get it, if they can invest it properly and if, you know, something like an SE 20 for the women's team can kind of get itself going that will make a huge difference but in terms of the reach and as dan mentioned the cultural shift in attitude towards women and what women can achieve in a country like india i think it will probably come with a bit of a warning in terms of what's happened in the men's game in terms of dominance and what other boards need to do to kind of make sure that they're still

competing as well but regardless of where the money goes it'll be life-changing it'll be life-changing for the families of a lot of these players as well because we're talking about the sort of money that goes a very long way in a country like this and the same is true of South Africa and just you mentioned SA20 and suddenly a thought occurred to me when you were saying that remember we did the test match England against South Africa in South Africa and SA20s massive competition for the men has got DRS it's got millions and millions of pounds RAND pumped into it we didn't have DRS in the women's test match did we if they win the World Cup. I know it sounds like a really tiny

thing, but it's about respect. It's about respect for the game itself. And I'd just like to think that perhaps instead of us being given mealy-mouthed excuses about how they couldn't actually afford the 40 or 50 grand it takes to put in DRS, they might think, well this is a product that needs

care and attention. And that's I think what the women want as much as anything else. They want to be recognised as athletes, as sports people who are making a product that is incredibly popular, that sells shirts, and sells advertising, and they deserve the same respect as their male counterparts. I'm really, really excited.

I have to say, I'm absolutely buzzing. Looking out over Mumbai from where we are now, the cars are drifting up and down the road. I can see the trains in the distance and the sea beyond that as well. And at 3 o'clock on Sunday afternoon, televisions across this nation are going to be trained on the D.Y. Patel Stadium. It's going to feel like the centre of the sporting world. and I can't wait. Yeah, I hope so. I hope the weather stays away.

There's been rumours of a little bit of rain, so that better not actually happen. But yeah, all eyes will be on India. Can't wait. Right, coverage underway. 9.15 on Sunday morning UK time. We will bring you every moment of what will be. Whatever happens,

a fascinating and thrilling occasion here in Navi Mumbai. Don't forget, subscribe to the Test Match Special podcast on BBC Sounds. Make sure you don't miss a thing from no way. balls with Alex and Kate Cross. There's an interview with Elisa Healy, the Australia captain, before they were knocked out of this tournament. And there's also loads of material ahead of the men's ashes for you to get stuck into as well. That, by the way, gets underway on November 21st, full ball by ball coverage of the men's ashes

coming up very, very soon. Thank you so much to Alex, to Fiona and to Daniel. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you soon. from the start of your day to the moment you head home join five live for the latest news the stories everyone's sharing and the biggest debates

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