The 40k Lorecast - Bonus Episode - Our Takes on 11th Edition

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

Brad and John Discuss the Launch of 11th Edition with their excitement and reservations about some rule changes and updates to the game. Big thank you to other people for having GW give them advanced copies of the rules and then publishing them, because we sure as hell were not on that list of advanced copies... But we did get to review your stuff first before making this.PatreonMerchandiseDiscord Link:Our WebsiteRetro RecallBrad ChannelOur Sponsors:* Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out Hims and use my code hims.com/40KLORE for a great deal: https://www.hims.com* Check out Pebl and use my code hipebl.ai for a great deal: https://hellopebl.com* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/40klore for a great deal: https://www.quince.com* Check out Shopify and use my code shopify.com/lore for a great deal: https://www.shopify.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the 40K lore cast. Welcome to the 40K Lordcast with me, John Barcotti and Bradchester. This guy. Surprise. Yeah, it's a surprise cast. Bonus cast to everybody. So we wanted to get this out with the 11th edition coming around and just kind of have a little bit of fun. Brad and I just are talking about about 11th edition and we thought it was fun.

Yeah, for us to kind of go through. I mean, look, there's enough people discussing the core rules and that stuff. We actually kind of want to get in hearing a little bit of shit talk this. So let's have some fun. That was kind of more of the goal here and give you guys our opinions of what 11th edition is going to be and some fun elements of it. So that's really all this is. Hi, surprise. We're here.

So GW, I would say thank you, GW, for giving us an advanced copy, but they didn't because we don't matter that much. So we got the same thing all of you have, the downloadable core rules. How are we not getting advanced copies, Jeff? I don't want that. I'm fine with it. I'm fine being common. I'm okay. Common folk.

Yeah, I, we belong with the common folk. I mean, I definitely. Yeah. We actually probably belong behind them. It should have been, we should. I will go to the back of the bus where everybody expects me. We probably should have had to have these sent to us by someone else. Like, oh, yeah, you guys don't.

GW blocked your IP addresses. Fair enough. Fair enough. But yeah, so we get the core rules came out. I will be honest. I expect a lot of these rules to be wrong, given the history of GW when they release rule sets that they're going to go, oh. oops don't follow the stuff in the print book but hold on john we're going to start with a dig and then

we're going to talk about things that i really like because on the first picture of real people supposedly playing the second picture of the entire thing brad and i just spent about 10 minutes going over it together well there's two dyes that are cocked why do you have them cocked okay yeah let's go there we have two people playing we have for whatever reason him being oddly helpful to a man and woman, she's holding the tape measure wrong, objectively holding it wrong. If you hold it like that, it's going to ricochet right back in. That is not how you measure. You have to keep your finger on top of...

She's measuring nothing is the problem. She's measuring nothing. The tape measure is extended, but she's not holding the lock button down, which means at any second, this thing's just going to retract. So there's no value to this. He's pointing down with his hand, but smiling. He's doing a gesture with his hand, which is the... I told you so, gesture, but he's smiling.

Whoa, you're missing. He's tried to pretend that he just rolled the dice. Yeah, but they're not rolled. One of them is caught and sitting on top of something. I actually think that there's tried to pretend that this is an action shot and these dice are in the process. Also, if you did this in a game and you rolled your dice on top of somebody's models, they'd fight you. Yeah, I just look at you like, what? Get a dice tray.

Also, my favorite part is one thing Brad and I noticed is we're pretty sure this is, well, I came up with this board is it looks like it's a cardboard board, but I'm worried this is the old GW many years ago decided to make their own boards and they were plastic. And Brad probably remembers a few of you guys remember these things. They were these plastic boards you could paint and they would actually assemble together and they would come together to form the single worst playing surface in the history of 14. because any model you put on them would fall down, and any dice you rolled on them would skip across the floor.

You actually were more successful rolling dice on concrete than you were on these plastic boards. So anyway, with that out of the way, we can continue into the actual rules of the actual game. So let's start with cool things like in the very beginning. We'll go top to bottom from where it starts. Battle shock doesn't just auto go away, which made Battleshock an actual thing that people give a shit about. Yeah, we'll bring, we're bringing, so let's talk more about, we have the history of 40K, so we can talk a bit more about this. We're bringing back something that was tantamount to most additions.

The idea was that once your unit reduced in size to a certain point, you took a leadership check. And once you failed that leadership check, you then had to regain your leadership. The idea being that a unit meant to be got scared, for lack of a better phrase, and would start running away. Now, it gets broken. Yeah, they didn't make you run away anymore because as Brad and our other co-host, Alan, will happily tell you of those glorious days of being escorted off the board. And they were run down. Yeah. Those were some glory days that Shell probably never returned, fortunately, unfortunately.

But the idea, the problem with Battle Shock is for many additions now, I think since, I mean, definitely eighth. I don't know. In seventh edition, did leadership matter? Yeah, if he had unbreakable stuff. Yeah. So you could take damage. Okay, that's what it was. Eighth edition, it mattered, but a lot of guys had ways to ignore it.

We haven't had leadership matter for a little bit. So Nightlord players are excited. You might matter again. Yeah, I was safe. For 10th edition, Battlesi just didn't make a difference because it auto cleared at the beginning of command phase. In ninth edition, it was useless. It was so easy to pass the five edition.

The things that I do like. So first off, let's talk about the addition. 11th edition is a 10 point, way I have to call it the 10.5. because the first thing, your data sheets still make a difference. All the same things still apply. Everything on an old data sheet counts. TBD. Okay.

How about this? In the downloadable rules, they even show you a boys card and all of the things are exactly the same as before. It's... Except for all the different words. No. Yes. But I'm saying that like it's set up the same way.

Everything's the same. Yeah, I know. I'm just giving you a group. It's like everything. The reason why it's in 10th edition, just for people who don't play the game, in 10th edition, every time they released a codex, they would release a codex and they would sell data cards with it. And you could buy data cards.

And those data cards became outdated within one day. Instantaneously. Yeah, sometimes one day, but definitely within three months. We're completely useless. So. In good news, I really like that they've put everything. The way that they started doing strategums in 10th edition was very nice. It's the, who's eligible, when can you do it, who can you affect it on.

And now they've done this with every step of the game. When you do, when you get out of a vehicle, when you move, when you do something, they have charts. So if you actually, I say print it out because I'm an old man. If you have it on your phone, your tablet, you or whatever, you could literally follow through the stages of the game. When was the last time you printed something out and brought to a tournament with you? Actually, no, no, no. I actually have Sniggs print out score sheets because I'm going to a tournament I care about. I keep actual physical score because I I forget shit.

Okay. Outside of that, when was the last time you printed out? I have a printer. It's on the floor. I haven't had it. 2000. Before COVID. There we go.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your support of the player base, but I'm just calling it out. Love you to death, buddy. Also, you know, that I would never get that printed to work. but I'm saying you could go through these things and look at what is this rule and you can walk through. I think this is going to be one of the things I wanted to talk about with what we're doing today is there's a lot of people that are very, very new or haven't even started playing that listen to our cast.

And I think this is a good addition to start in because you can walk through things a lot easier than you could in other. This is one of the easier additions we've seen to pick the game up with. And it's because it is a bit more the order of operations is being made more linear with each test version. There are still some challenges. And, you know, look, this game is complicated. We're never going to pretend for a second this game isn't complicated. You will be playing it for months before you really start to really get a good grasp of it. But you can start playing it quickly and, you know, enjoy it.

I actually think that this is going to be an easier game to get into. there is going to be a pretty big learning curve to be medium plus because there's going to be some moments where you're like, I got pretty punished by stuff. Now, what are the hugest things in this edition? And it's a change that is bigger. I mean, we've had the same engagement range for forever. Engagement range is now two inches, which it used to be one inch. I like, I did like you opened up with let's go in order.

And now you just skipped 45 pages. I did not. Really? Where's engagement range? I'm on command phase. Where is engaging range? Page 14. Don't worry about it. It's in order. There's nothing to say of those things. I already said they go step by step by step. No, because you skipped some really important bits. I did not. Go ahead. All right. So let's get into the first one I want to talk about is movement phase. It was actually a very big change to movement phase. And when the big changes is that coming in from reserves no longer happens at the end of movement phase. your entire movement phase happens in whatever order you want your movement phase to happen in. This is, to Brad's point, really nice for new players.

One of the challenges we've had in prior editions has been, was it Tony got Tony? Carpondo. Carpando got corpandoed. Yeah. So one of the challenges in Warhammer has been the chest thing of, you know, did you take your finger off the piece? And it has been a real annoyance in the game for a long time. because it had to do with Overwatch. That's how they, why they fixed it?

Well, but I'm saying, we're going to skip a smidge ahead because I'm just going to give it the, all things that you can reactively do now except for reactive moves. We'll see if they change those. But anything that is a reaction to something you're doing happens now at the end of the phase. So, for instance, if John, I can once a turn use Overwatch, which means I can shoot at something at a reduced ballistic scale. And I would, technically, he would have to move a model,

wait for me to say no, move a model, wait for me to say no. And the same thing was in the charge phase. I'd have to move a charge, wait for him to see if he was going to heroic intervention on me. And now all of these things are at the end. And all of these

things happen all together. For instance, pylons and consolidates. Active player piles in everything. Then the non-active player. consolidate, you know, so and so forth. It makes it so much better. Yeah. We're going to talk about how you can gain.

There's a negative that I'm going to get to in a second, but the initial is there's a nice positive to it. For I think to your point, for a newer player, it's nice because I don't have to, you know, bring my models out and say, hey, these aren't on the board, but I'm going to put them there in a minute. So they're not down yet. Like I literally bring guys in from Deep Strike and lie them on their side in a place like, hey, they're going to be there in a minute, but I'm not putting them down now just in

I'm playing an opponent who wants to play the game that way. Okay, Hades are on their side. By the way, why Jaze's saying that is because reserves used to be the end of your movement phase? So if you brought a reserve in, you are basically declaring that this is the end of the phase. And people would try and force that sometimes on you and say, okay, you're done moving now. No, I'm not. I just, you know, whatever.

So this is nice. This is helpful. The problem with that is that what they did was, to Brad's point, we have a thing called Overwatch and in Overwatch, I get to take, I get to shoot at you for moving. The problem with this is that Overwatch used to be declared when you went to move. And it used to be when you would start or finish a move because now you overwatch at the end of a movement phase. I can now move stuff behind walls and not be overwatched, which means. I'm fine with that because you can now choose. I'm not because I, you know, sometimes where you can over a, I'll use a very simple example. In my turn,

I shoot a unit down to a single character left. You then now can retreat that character behind a wall. Not having to ask you every single time. Oh, no, no. I guess that. All my point is is that's the issues. I wish Overwatch should be able to be declared at the beginning. It's not the end of the world.

It's just the reason. Because they don't want it model by or unit by unit. I get it. It's a sacrifice, but it is something that does create. Also, Overwatch significantly less powerful because Overwatch, is now snapshots. Snapshots are only hit on sixes. Also, the bigger part,

you cannot re-roll a snapshot. Flamers. Exactly. Flamers are still a way to go. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of flaming. So I will say the movement phase, the other big change to movement phase, which affects me a lot individually

because I play a lot of flying units, although actually my new army intent does not, the irony of this all is, for all of 10th edition, I played units had tons of fly. I love fly. And then for 11 edition, I'm building an iron warriors army, I think has two flying units and the whole thing. But I respect fly and fly is back.

We finally, we figured out once again how to fly over things. The board is 3D again. What a wonderful thing. I love the fly. I also love the fact that movement is technically now done straight line to straight line. So if I have 12 inches, but I want to make a bunch of moves and stuff, I can pivot as much as I want. It's no longer.

It takes, like right now, if I pivot, you lose two inches, but you can gain a lot of inches in more than equals. No, this is nice because you pick a piece of the, already show the diagram. No, I saw it. No, I saw it. We disagree on this one because I know I was going to get manipulated. You pick a piece, though.

You pick a piece and you cannot move farther than that goes. So I measure all of my movement. I'm going to move this right now. I'm going to start the movement, and I'm going to measure off what they're showing in the diagram is they're measuring off the left corner. You measure off the left corner, period, and you do it in straight lines.

So you can never get farther than 12 inches of movement on that. I get that. The issue has to do with the terrain. The issue I have with that is some of the terrain. Kind of, but it's so much better than it is now because I can really pretty big. Let's just call it out.

So people who don't understand, one of the challenges in this game is that the terrain is angled. Some of these models, I think, you know, Brad used the term rhino, Rhino is a bad example, and the reason why is because a rhino is almost a perfect rectangle. The bigger challenges, RRB, I play, the Raider.

Or, you know, long cylindrical vehicles, basically. Some of these vehicles are the wave serpent. They don't have a very good shape. So kind of figuring out where it begins and where it ends. Yes, but you're putting, again, you can try to game and get extra inches. Oh, no, that's what I'm agreeing. Because you're picking a point now. That's why I'm agreeing with you.

what I'm saying is those models allowed you to players could manipulate it a little bit. If I needed it has a 12 inch movement, you could get 13 pretty easily. And it's hard to see. It's laughable. Yeah, there's hard to see what they did. And so what they're saying now is screw it. You can only go this far. The challenge to it now, though, is that you're going to be getting a lot more movement out of them than you were getting before if you're enforcing it on a dense board, which we're not seeing a lot of these days.

Again, everything is a yin and a yang. And so all, I'm not saying it's necessarily bad. What I'm saying is just like I was saying with the Overwatch thing, in order to gain this thing of the movement phases are going to be a lot quicker and a lot cleaner. You are going to lose the ability to pick off weak units. Much in the same way with this, you know, yes, we're going to have a cleaner way to move vehicles. We're not going to see as much gaming of the vehicle movement. But the flip side is you're going to have to watch out for vehicles. They're going to be getting firing angles much more easily because they will be able to get much more movement.

than they did before. We have less blocking. The new terrain also has way less walls and stuff. Also, let's talk about in the movement phase. If you want to go there, this is a little bit farther because it goes with terrain. You can now toe touch again. Chef's kiss because. A toe touch is critical.

Yes. Nothing is more annoying to me than coaching and trying to explain the current terrain rules, which are bananas. You know, wholly within versus not. Now, am I a knight? Am I not a knight? Am I going to do this? So good.

If I'm by holding with them and I ought, you know. But right now, it goes back to old school, which is if you're touching, if your model's touching any piece of the terrain, you true line of sight look through that terrain. If there's a wall in front of you can't see, if there's not, you see right through it. I love that rule. Also, coherency. Coherency changed for the better. People can argue with me on this, people that love to play horn.

I like to play hard. I like to play hard. I, let me make an argument here. The only issue I have with it, I would like to see one small change. I would like to see it be nine inches for 10 models or less, 12 inches for 10 models and more. That's the only change because with gas and 20 boys, nine inches is tight. That's my issue. So let's talk about what we're talking about.

So that phrase made no sense, but I'm continuing on a party on Garth. So the new coherency is you have to be two inches from another model. it used to be two inches from two models. Now, it's easier to do that, but you now have a total diameter of nine inches that your unit has to be. So effectively, you have a circle, nine inches. Everybody has to be inside that circle.

You have to end your movement nine inches away. So I think we could say blast templates are not coming back. Yeah, exactly. Apocalyptic blast, which is that, basically. Exactly. All right, I hit every. All of your units. But what they the re one of the reasons for this is because right now in 10th edition,

I could zipper formation basically up down up down um to keep everybody within two two inches of two models. If I had a 20, 25 man unit, I could string completely out and stop you from engaging anything behind. Oh, yeah. I used to do this whole time. And they just didn't want that. Yeah, I used to do this.

If I ran two infiltrate units, I could date two infiltrate units. If I got first turn, I could advance them up the board and you wouldn't get a first move. movement phase because I could actually take two units and you could not move because they were spread so far out. That is unacceptable. Again, my complaint around it is we do have 20 unit, 20 model units. And nine inches is not as big as people think. There's a great joke there. I'm not going to make it because for obvious reasons. But it is that diameter is not as large, especially. There are examples

people have already started posting of like gas, for example, gas and Macari. with 20 boys means they are base to base in order to be within nine inches, which means if there is terrain, they cannot fit. So all I'm saying is it would be nice. I'm hoping GW does an early change just to extend it to 12, basically say, you know, 10 or less is 9, 10 or more goes to 12. You've seen people playing recon garden and stuff like that and just making the game miserable. Oh, yeah, no.

Screen the board with one. I'm saying, I'm not saying you go to 18 if you have 20. I'm just saying, okay, we're going to recognize that an attached model unit, this will get a little bit larger. That's all. It's just give them enough space that we can account for terrain. But it is a good change because the daisy chaining of units was stupid. And it looked weird. It also made less interaction.

You could just keep people away from you. Oh, you could do. There were so many dirty tricks. It also is a good way to block out Deep Strike. These were things that people used to game what I would call myself, actually. You have B minus, depending on how many beer amounts, some C plus, if I'm really drunk. Player, you could really shut me down if I have stuff off board. A good player would see that.

They'd advance a daisy chain of player. And all of a sudden, I just don't get to come on the board. And I'm deep striking into my own deployment zone. It's going to be, this game's going to have a lot more free play in it. And that's one thing we're going to discuss as we kind of get later in this, like how we're going to, how we interpret this edition. This edition, here's well, say, you're going to be playing a lot more, this edition. a lot more. There's going to be a lot of engagement.

I think the game's going to be very, very alpha-striky. It's going to hurt. We have less terrain. We have things on that. Again, it's easier to make engagement. Engagement is now two inches instead of one inch so you can get on stuff. Now, I know you love melee. Can we talk about the shooting phase first, please?

Fine. If you're going to be like- I'm building an Iron Warriors Army. This is going to come up a lot for me. All right. Why would you be shooting when you could be punching? Because I have Vashtor. He could punch.

He's a great puncher. Not really. He is, but what happens when you put him next to two or three vehicles? It's a slight easier to be cool shooting. You know, I can shoot you back. It's like, what if I just go over there and all that's dead? Oh, look, Abadden's nearby. Huh.

That feels unfair. Anyway, so shooting phase. Shooting phase hasn't actually changed that much. Just a couple little small tweaks. We've got, you know. Well, let's talk dice real quick. That is the biggest thing. And it applies to all the phases.

So right now, John is leading 10 Marines, and I put 20 wounds on him. He would have to start taking his saves 10 at a time or lower because his character has different saves. Now they have what's called they batch dice instead of just fast rolling dice. If I gave him 20 saves, he would roll all of his saves and assign them however he wants, which makes your characters and special weapons, a piece of business. people with like four up invulence, for instance. If he had old Marnius Calgar had two guys with him that have four up involve,

which is a save that can't be modifying. And if I shot last cannons at him, he would take the saves on those guys first, but then would have to keep taking the other saves. Now, you can assign your saves however you want in whatever order you want once they give them to, which is a big,

big deal. I don't love this, but it's fine. You're going to, people are going to game the crap out of that. But whatever. You can't. They will, yes, Yeah, because you still assign, you still shoot your weapons in the order you want to shoot then. I know. I know. I'm just saying, I get why they did it because it was actually very convoluted.

But as far as shooting goes, a couple of small changes. They did a bunch of stuff that's fast, which I like quite a bit. But the elements of shooting that matter is a couple of things that matter to shooting. First off, let's talk about, you know, if you advance, you have to have assault. Fine. If you heavy, plus one to hit. Cool. No.

plus one heavy is different. Heavy now says if you've reached three or less, which means it's actually used way more. Also, plunging fire. Plunging fire used to be five inches, six inches or whatever or more. You got plus you're never getting it. Now it's anything with tower nights just auto get it. If they're 12 inches away, they get plus one to your ballistic scale.

And models that are three inches or above get plus one ballistic scale. I like this quite a bit because it adds a lot. It adds, it also, it adds something that's going to happen. Yeah, I can tell you where my havocs are going to be every single time. Yeah,

my havocs are going to be the second floor all the time. Did it also one, and the biggest thing about the figure one is, you can only have modifiers of plus one to hit or minus one, come total, but this is a separate modifier. So they're modifying your ballistic skill is the number you hit on. so you're changing it for, for instance, those havocs, normally hit on threes.

If they're on plunging fire, they would be changed to hitting on twos. Which means I could also get a plus one to hit. Plus one. Exactly. And that if you're giving a minus one, they're still hitting on a two. But exactly. If you're shooting something in cover, now cover saves are now minus one to hit across the board. Yeah, we'll talk about cover in a second.

One more thing I would talk about is a love of mine, a hatred of yours in direct fire. I can suck it. Suck it, Trebek. Love it. Indirect fire took an interesting hit here. So indirect fire, which has been maybe the bane of existence in the game for a long time. I hate indirect fire. Not as much as I hate aircraft, but still.

They're kind of one of the same, if we're being honest. Indirect fire is when you have artillery. The problem with this addition is this edition has a lot more ways to make your units invisible for lack of a better phrase. It's hard, ineligible to be shot. Indirect removes that. They can shoot anything on the board

whenever they feel like it, which makes them very unique. But GW has decided to make it so, yeah, if they only hit on sixes. They can hit on... Unless they can see you. Well, no, it's somebody else has to see.

If somebody else can spot for you, which I like quite a bit, it's fine. You can hit on fours and fives and sixes. Yep. And what the other thing is, is, again, they don't have rerills on that. The only thing I'll say about this,

is I am quite concerned as to how GW points these models out, because this is a very heavy-duty nerf to indirect fire. Anyone who's played the game for a while knows that indirect weapons are monstrous when they're good. So the question is, does my basilis go down to 100 points? Because if so, I'll put three of them on the board. Just yolo swag it. You know, like, I'll just roll all these sixes. Well, I'll put three on the board and put scout sentinels on the board. And cool, I can see you now. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Goodbye. And just hammer you off the board. Still D6 plus three shots. Bye. So there's that one. But with that, we actually should talk now about one of the biggest changes, which is cover. And this actually is maybe one of the most consequential changes to the game.

More or less to me about what they modify and more about the overall rule and how it modifies it. So forever, cover has modified your save. Even going back to second edition, third edition, just different way and modified, obviously, but it modified your safe. That's gone now. Your save is now you're safe. What you get now is you change how I can hit you. You're adjusting my ability to hit you by subtracting one from my ability to hit. It's also a big deal because you're not getting that bonus either unless your unit is all of them. So if I can, if you're, half your unit was in terrain and I can drive and see somebody that's not in terrain, I do not get that. But two things on that. One, there's a lot more, you talked about

something earlier. This is why this is important to me. We're keeping all of our own data cards on all of our own data cards, all flamers, every torrent. No cover? Ignores cover. However, there's a lot of units that ignore the modifiers. Yep. The shooting. All tower suits. All psychic weapons now. Yeah.

Dark reapers. There's a bunch of stuff. So it's actually cover got a lot worse. Because a lot of stuff to ignore it. And then what you were just talking about compounds. So the other thing before was what you would do is if I had 10 models and four of them were touching a terrain piece, those four were in cover. The other six were not.

So when I went to take that bonus. Yep, on them. Now I get no cover save. It does not exist unless 100% of my models are all within cover. And cover is pretty aggressive now. They have to be at least partially obscured and or fully within the terrain piece. Yep. That's a lot.

That's actually, for people who don't play the game, that's actually harder to pull out than you think. We've been giving them props on a lot of stuff. If we started snarking, I'm going to snark on this. The pictures they use of cover with the world's worst photoshopped guy. Oh, my God. I was just thinking about putting my face in there because it looks so ridiculous. You can't see anything. It has no value.

Oh, I just love it. They put the model and they just superimposed it on a picture. It's just bad Photoshop. You're like, come on, guys. It looks terrible. What year is this? This is 1999. I think is they have unlimited terrain and models.

They could have just taken an actual picture. It looks more like they used to much splurge to buy Photoshop. Does anyone know how to get free Photoshop? Why bother with splurge it got pre-photoshop when you could just take a picture of a model behind the terrain? You have all of them. Boo. All right. But after that, we get to what's probably the biggest change in the game, one that I personally

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Channel your hatred. No, it's, I feel, is an error. So, charge phase. Let's talk about what it used to be. I used to have to declare my charges, and then I would roll to see if I made. that charge. And sometimes you're standing the freaking wind. Yeah. Now I roll. I say I'm going to charge. I roll two dice and then I declare my targets after I see how far I can go. I hate this. This is stupid. It's just stupid. I don't get to do that with shooting. It'll do with anything else.

It's high. Hey, dude. No, you can pre-measure who you shoot. No, I don't get to find out if I hit or not. If I have a last can of the unit, do I get to decide what the last cany is shooting at? Yes. No. No, I don't. Not after knowing if it hits or not, I have to say, okay, I've got a squad that has a last cannon in it. Do I, where do I put the last cannon?

Do I know if it's going to hit and wound? No, I don't. Yeah. No, I don't get that level of hindsight. I detest this rule because it makes it too easy. It allows for too much confidence. the whole the only way

you kept melee don't take away people's confidence John yeah the way because this is the thing I play I'm building my 13th

army right now I play a lot of different armies I play melee armies I play shooting armies I play middle armies the middle ones are I'm terrible lot so I usually play

one of the shooting armies I don't play balance well at all I play my orcs I don't mean I shot I played a tournament

where I didn't shoot a gun but my point is even though I play that level of melee the way that you beat me when I'm playing heavy-duty melee and the way I beat you when you're playing heavy-duty melee is I put your charges at scary distances so you are uncomfortable about where to

put your models because you're afraid of failing charges now that fear is gone you just move up and roll your charges and all you just assume I'll be close enough to get to one of them because what it used to be was all right I'm going to I'm within maybe five inches of this one model I couldn't keep you out of that one, but that unit doesn't matter at all to me. And you get to that model, that unit, you kill that unit, that's fine. I'm going to slaughter you after you kill that. But now you get, you're within five inches, you're going to roll the dice. You're rolling 11.

You're into everything. And I don't know if you get that. You don't know if you get that. But before most players wouldn't take that risk. Now, move block those people, John, move block them. Can't. There's limits to move block them. Because what are going to move block them with them?

They're going to charge with. That's the problem. I don't let me. I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. It is a colossal error.

I'm sorry, it just is. It's a colossal error. It's a colossal error made worse by the thing we're both going to talk about because we both thought at least it was limited by what you could. Yes. So they declared it in this. You know what? We're not even going to talk about how late. Fine.

But let's get into this. So you make a charge. You roll your stupid dice. And then you pick after knowing what you can, what, how far you go, you pick whatever you want to go and do. So you move your models in. Then they make a nice change. One I fully agree with. We used to have a lot of gaming in the next piece of the game, which was the pile in and fight.

So it used to be I would pile in, then I would fight. I'd go to my next one. I would pile in and I would fight. And this would allow for a lot of extra weird movement and a lot of shenanigans. You know, not the good shenanigans, not even shenanigans. But we have more shenanigans now. So let's talk about. They screwed this up real bad.

So real bad. We thought there was going to be. You could only attack things you could charge. God, they checked this up so bad. I'm sorry. I'm just thinking real screwed up melee. You move all your pylons at the same time, which is very, very nice. However, if you kill everything, one, I can just start touching things because you pile in towards

the closest models. So I can just grab shit that I wasn't fighting. And now because of the fact that it's two-inch engagement, I have so much ability to just grab all over your units. The other thing is overrun. Just to help you want to send this back. So what that means is I roll my six inch charge. Okay.

I move, but then I move as close as I can. So I have to move to whatever's closest I declare. I move towards us towards this thing that's not. No, no, no, no, you do not. Well, no, do what I declare. So I'm saying, I roll, I roll a six inch charge. Yeah. And I say, whatever you declare, you have to move closer to that.

And I have to move towards that. But in moving close to that, I'm within five inches of another unit. I now on piling can go into that other unit. Yeah. That is stupid. Now, let's talk about what's even better on this is if we blow something up, like you kill the transport, whatever you can do now what's called an overrun. So I charge two units into John's unit and blow it up.

I've just now moved three. I move my charge, plus I move three. And then I can now go, oh, it's my turn to fight. I am not engaged. So I'm now going to make another pile in. So I moved another three. So say an average dice roll is seven. I did a seven inch charge.

I moved six and I'm now within two. And then I get a consolidate move on top of that. Also, there are armies and units that have six inch consolidates. So I could possibly do this twice and move seven, six, six. Yeah. This is, they really screwed this up candidly. I mean, and this is something that when Brad now are complaining about this, we're not the only ones complaining about this.

There's a lot of players who have noticed this. And this might be like FAQ. We're expecting, we're hoping the FAQ this because the idea behind when they first announced it was when you declare a charge, the only thing you can fight is what you charge. The one exception being if you charge a transport, you could fight what was inside the transport, which made sense. Okay, that's fair. But now we're seeing the thing that you could do in 10th edition, which people did not like, which means I would charge target A. But worse. Fight charges B, C, D, and E.

You didn't have Overwatch. in 10th edition or overrun, sorry, in 10th edition. No, I can get super deep into people. That's, that's. And we can, and I can shut you down because don't forget, we still have the problem of, and the issue with the overrun is we still have fallback. So the challenge is that if I just get into you, yeah, you can fight me, but you don't get to move in the next turn.

So if I have things that are decently tanky, cough, cough, my orcs and wafe face, I could use plays like this, get into you pretty deep. And I'm going to remove your next movement phase. Oh, there's also people that don't let you move. Yep. Which is exalted. You know what I mean? Exalted Epo.

Yeah. There's a lot of this stuff. And that's where as I love the melee phase, I, this is something they've really screwed up. I'm going to. I'm going back to things they do well because of the fact that they have the charts again. Let's go through faces on that a little bit. It's easy to see charts of what's screwed up. I like it.

Yes. Yeah, that's true. Awesome. But I do love. I like four instances. You can get out of your pro tractor to see all the parts they got wrong. But they go through, they make it a lot easier to say who can do what. They change names on stuff, which is annoying, close combat shoot, close to big.

They also fixed engagement range. I will say, I do like the fact that engaging range is now just two inches, no more base-to-base fighting. I know people who run mounted units. It sucks for you and your horses. Weird. But for some people, they didn't like it, but this act just sucks. Maybe go for a ride and figure it out. But the issue with it is, just kidding.

The problem with, this was a change I do when I talk about. One of the changes it used to be was the way it worked was anyone in base-to-base contact fought within an inch fought or an inch and a half. And then anything in an inch, within an inch, within an inch, within an inch, thought and anything in base contact was something within that inch contact fought, which works really well. No, no, no, that's, they started down. So that's how it was.

No, it was. It was, you had to be, if you wanted to fight two models, you had to have a guy in base combat that was based to base, yes. Based to base. You basically had every, everyone had to be base to base. If you wanted to fight two models, that those two models had to be. They had to be touching. They had to be touching.

Yeah. And then the front one had to be touching the enemy. This, the issue with that is hormagons, which did have a little bit of an extra rule. But what happens in some of us, like I use custom bases, depending on how you modeled your units, it actually could be hard to do this about breaking models was, it became the issue. It also, like, it used to be have giant, people with giant bases. Yeah. I could, I mean, think about it.

Bobby G. You know, whoever's Logan, anybody leading on a 60, you would, like, you would have that guy touch and then everybody else would touch him. Just touch him and he could, and everyone could fight. So you had a guy fighting from like. The giant orc on the bike, the, what's his face bike? He was on. Oh, the war truck.

The war tracts. Yeah. The war truck's on an oval. Yeah. So you could just touch. You could be six inches away from the fight. And everybody could. fight through him.

That was stupid. Fighting from like down the street, like through him. Yeah, exactly. It was, it caused a lot of weird jobs. My problem was less about that distance. My problem was actually more, it really was hard to get some of my hoard models or even some of my witches when I was playing Droucarry, some of the gladiatorial weapons, the way that they were, they would actually get in the way.

So I couldn't physically put them in based on that. You could just, it's easier now. You just go, here, are you within two inches? The other thing that they did a great job of is consolidate. consolidate right now is three inches, but then if I could get within engagement range, so effectively, even though Consolidate said it was three inches,

it was actually four inches, because I could go three. Now, if you're not within three, you're just not within three. You just don't care. It's not engagement range. It is just you make a three inch movement. If the three inch movement would base to base you with a unit,

then you could move. If the three inch movement touches the terrain objective, now you can move, period. There's no. Otherwise you don't move. Rating? Otherwise, you don't move.

Which is nice because it affects, it does affect coherency. But, yeah, so that's kind of of the end of the basic rules.

Now we're going to dig into like the real nuts and bolts of this game where they made some changes. And the first thing they made changes for was terrain. We were, it's going to come out.

The thing is, we're going to pause on that one. Pause on that. You don't, we don't have the mission packet out, which talks about the terrain, so let's not bother. No,

the terrain's in there. I want to talk about the terrain and the dense thing. It's just, the problem. It's just, You don't have enough of it yet. We do.

I do. I mean, you do and you, I mean, I'm just saying we can't talk about the actual mission stuff. I also have the French stuff too. Yeah, we all have the French stuff. Whatever. Who cares? They didn't say it to us.

It's not my fault. I got to illegally. Whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, if GW doesn't want me, like, using their pirated stuff, tell them to stop giving it to the French.

Like, you engage in a 500 years war with somebody and then you're surprised if they start leaking it to the internet. Whatever. Look, the issue is, One thing in 11th edition that is both good and bad is the terrain changes. And when I say good and bad, it depends what army you play. One of the big issues that we had in 10th edition, 9th and in 10th even more so, was the terrain started getting really dense, really, really dense.

It was just walls. It was city. It was building. And it was close together. So, for example, Brad doesn't care much for Bainblades because he is the fun police. But there's a lot of models that you actually couldn't play with. in 10th edition. There were certain deployments

you actually could not put the model, you could put on the board, but it wouldn't go anywhere. And this GW seems to have noticed that. And they've now opened the terrain up quite a bit. So now there's almost nothing that you can't get from one side of the board to the other.

Might take you a bit. It might take your three turns, but you can't get that. It's visibility on that. You can see units. While the charge is going to be different on stuff, you have way less places to stage. Because right now,

the game was played with you putting your models right behind walls and then going to the next set of walls. That is how the game is played. It was a late in 10th edition. It's just, yeah, the 10th edition. And now that is not the game because they just took away 80% of the walls on the terrain. So now in 10th edition, you have dense and light terrain and some other things, but let's call it what's going to be dense and light terrain. We know what we're going to see everywhere, right? I mean, find crater.

Don't. Also, the terrain's the objective. So you have to get in the terrain. It's going to be a slaughter fest. So the two ways it works is we've got, I'm going to call it big terrain, little terrain. It's actually a lot easier than calling it dense and light. It's easier calling it big terrain, little terrain.

Big terrain is dense terrain. Dense terrain you can hide in. Little terrain, you cannot hide in. Little terrain bad. That's fine. You really can't hide in either, man. I can just walk over slightly. It depends what you're playing.

Like, if you're playing small models, you can hide. But they only, on the big terrain, they have walls that will be in corners. It used to be the wall took up the entire piece of terrain. Now if you're hiding behind that wall and I'm playing a fast army, I will shimmy ten inches over the side. There's going to be a lot of coming around and saying, hello, this is going to be, so I'll get to my conclusion a second. But in effect, the big terrain is what allows you to kind of have much more line of site blocking.

it's where you're going to have all of your, we'll talk about the objective situation in a minute, but in dense terrain or big terrain, infantry, beast, so I favorite with those are, swarm, which is small infantry,

and mobile, which is, mobile is just, that's suits, I assume, which one's, it's just everything goes through it now because those things are fly.

But they go through it is a difference. So all those guys go through, monsters and whatnot can't go through the big terrain. They can go, rounded. The little terrain, everything goes through. Well, it's pieces that make no difference anyways, though. It's small. It's two inch pipes and everything else that you can walk through. But you can't end on it, though, period. You can't end on it. But that makes a big difference in a lot of the way that you move stuff through because that's a huge change. In 10th edition,

that didn't, you didn't see a lot of that. In 10th edition, everything had to go around everything unless you were infantry. So in 10th edition, you saw a lot of infantry because it was the only way to move through the board. That's because you had walls everywhere. Exactly. You had L's and U shapes buildings everywhere on the board. Now, and we're not getting that. I want to combine two things here about this. It's what's interesting. So one, I now don't need infantry anymore to move across the board. And two, covers kind of a pain in the ass to get. So now all of a sudden, this has potential to be a much more vehicle addition. Yes. Or battle suit, term. Terminers. Any Things will fly because you have to be completely behind shit now as opposed to in it,

which means you need fast moving stuff that has things like the fly keyword where you can actually jump over all this shit. And that's so that's what other one is. So now everything still has. They did keep the templates, which is good or whatever they call it the base things, which is nice. So now if I'm behind something, you can't see me. If I'm in something, you can see it. It's solid now, but it's obscuring. It doesn't matter.

I mean, the angles of this terrain is so easy to hit. 100% because, again, you're not just jammed up behind walls. I'm excited to see this play. Let's talk about some of the strategies and stuff because I think this is a huge deal. The one more thing I want to talk about with this is around these things is this is going to be a very killy edition. That's kind of what the conclusion I want to get to around this.

When we talk about this one, that's the conclusion. I mean, Brett and I talked about us a lot. Other players we've talked about this. This edition is probably not going to be a lot of five turns. because the other piece too that we haven't we didn't talk about is we've moved objectives. We used to have objective markers that were certain places. Now your objective is in these terrain pieces and there are. No, it is the terrain pieces.

So before you would go, hey, here's an objective and I'd hide behind the terrain and stand on the objective. Now the terrain is the objective. And if I'm in the objective, you can see me because I'm in the objective. There is no way to hide anymore. So if I'm holding an objective. I'm actually good about because we played a very big game of hopscatching and hide, even though like my battle cry is not in the face.

I'm okay with that. It's going to be a slaughter fest of an addition. That's what I'll say. I want to go into this top, this top strat because this is a big deal. The strats are brutal. No, we're just talking about what's called core strats, which everyone has access to. You don't mean command re-roll? No, commander roll can scraw off.

Also, one of the hugest things in 11th edition, if you spend a stratagem on a unit, you cannot do anything else with them. So you can't spend another strat. So for instance, I'm playing my blood angels and I use advance in charge, a stratagem. I can't target that unit with another strat, which means that if I roll my charge and I can't get there, I cannot re-roll that charge because that is a stratagem. You can only spend... I didn't... Is it for the round or the phase? Do, do, do...

I'm gonna... Now I'm gonna scroll through it again. I think it's the... I don't remember it's the round of the phase. Face. It's phase. But I'm saying that's the same phase. Okay, I thought advance in charge was used at the movement phase.

No, it's... It depends... Sometimes they move them around. That's why, because some of them... It's like, at the end of the movement base, you declare that you're going to do this. And I've had people hit me with that one. It's like, you actually have to declare any movement phase.

All right. Fine. So I just yell it now. See, well, the thing is you can't do like, hey, I'm playing Blades or Ultramar. As soon as you shoot me, I pop three slash four defensive stretch. Can't do that anymore. Which is actually really nice. One of the strats that change quite a bit, I didn't even realize this until Horton explained it or pointed out to me.

Heroic intervention. Heroic is this giant card. Oh, it's awesome. The new heroic is brutal. Yeah. Well, the regular heroic is exactly the same. Don't care. Well, it actually is not exactly the same.

To the fray is awesome. It's within 12, yes. Yeah. But so heroic intervention is now instead of six inches, it's 12 inches. And then you roll to see if you can basically make a charge on your opponent's phase after all charges are done. Now, for one more CP, so for two CP, you can, as long as somebody's within six inches of you, you can just go. You missed something. So the first part of it is you have to target.

someone who charged. So that's what I'm saying. You didn't say it. Okay. So the first part of it is one CP. If someone charged at the end of the charge phase, you can try to basically countercharge them. The second part of it is called leap into the fray.

And if someone's within six inches of you, at the end of the charge phase, they don't have to have made a charge. For two CP instead of one CP, I can just charge that unit, which is a huge deal, which is That is devastating for a lot of armies, which means you have to now, if you're playing a melee army, you have to get out of the way. You cannot, like, you have to watch out because if you had something like, I mean, I don't think it was going to leave berserkers within six inches of them, for example, but you've got to be aware that they could. They could just make that huge, you know, you get within six inches. You're trying to take that. You're sitting on that terrain piece.

You definitely don't want to be six inches because it's at the end. It's still at the end of the charge phase, but it's your opponent's charge. Well, I'd have to ask, Corton is with this work with a surge move? now because surge moves are in your opponent's shooting face that's what i mean what's that now this is specifically this is a different face this is the other way around that's why i'm mixing them up but yeah i'll give you the same thing and hart made fun of me last night what i really like is the stratagem keys so basically if you have two arrows it's either player's turn down arrow your opponent's turn and on everywhere and up arrow is your opponent's turn and away and up arrow is your opponent's turn

and what she said was green blue, red is actually what it is. Up, up, down, down, left, right? Yeah, no, you're okay. By the way, it's not. He's just, oh, he is right. They are colored. Oh. That's just mean.

That's just mean for Brad. Whatever. Double arrow, down arrow, up arrow. That's just mean for Brad. A couple other fun changes. Another one is disembarking. Disembarking. Disembarking.

Yeah, disembarking is another really big one. So disembarking has been another one. that's been gained a lot. And so for me, it wasn't get disembarking, it's just getting out of something. That's what it is. The issue with getting out of something is it's a way to get some extra movement. And there's some fun tricks people can do around this.

Regular disembarking, no one cares. That part's easy. But what matters a lot more is what they're going to call here combat disembarkment or I guess. Well, it's not gaming anymore. They effectively made it, no, that's emergency disembarkation. Emergency is a big one. Combat. Yeah.

The changes are big on this because, one, combat disembarkation. So if you had tried to surround my vehicle, but I still have great distance. So normal disembarkation, rapid, they call it rapid and tactical. Basically, is your vehicle moved or has it not moved? So that's the only two differences. But combat disembarkation is six inches. So John puts a bunch of his witches all over my rhino, my transport, and I can't fit. normally I can make a combat disembarkation move, which means I can get out within six.

And now I take a hazardous role, which means on a one and two, I take a wound. However, I can put my models in, which has never been done before. I can put them in engagement range of your models. Yeah. Which is actually a big deal. If I'm a hand, if you have, during your eye and the boys. That moves me an inch closer, but also you had to with a two inch engagement range. No, but I'm just saying that, yes.

It's a big deal, though, because if I have a melee unit and you were trying to surround, if your storm boys were trying to make me not get out of the vehicle and Huron and the masters of the maelstrom get out, and I'm in engagement with you. I mean, go, I have a, I want to have a talk with you about you trying to make it so I couldn't get out of here. That's a big thing. It is kind of thematic, though, the idea of like a bunch of Storm Boys hitting the outside of a rhino with a chopper and then like, Huron walking out like, what?

what is the conversation you need to have right now? Like before, in 10th edition, if you did not have the space to get out within normal 3, you just couldn't get out. One rule I don't know is, you can't ask me right now. So what if you can't get all the models out? So let's say I surround you, all right?

And I take my boys. I surround your transport. And you can't get all of the guys out. Can you get a portion out? No. So the only way you can get not everybody out is if the unit, if the vehicle actually exploded and I made it. Then you're allowed to have a portion.

If I do an emergent, it's a disembarkation. Okay. But the emergency is also big because now you do, now it's ones and two. So they increased it. It used to be on a one, you lost the model.

Now it's a one and a two. It's not one. Still taking wounds. You just take wounds. Yeah, but it used to be on a one, you lost the model. No, it is not. In 10th edition,

it was always one. With one. Thought you lost the model. Well, looks like I pulled some models I shouldn't have. I mean, you actually had a bunch of one wound models. I said it didn't really matter.

I don't say, like, no, I don't care. It's just a wound. But you take a wound in a one and two instead of a one. I like this quite a bit because you have larger engagement, so it's harder to get people out if somebody's on top of you. So they basically gave you an option to just go, hey, would you like to just be engaged with this unit? Now you are battle shocked on this.

Yeah, so I can use a strategy on you. Whatever. I mean, that's all that's going to really matter. You can't use strategy of those, so it's a big deal on that. So whatever. Your McMurt is the official? Well, it's because in ninth and eighth edition, I think back to the ninth and eighth edition where you lost a model on the one or the two.

So I'll take the no strategy over like, oh, like you blow up. If you're a custod player, it's like, oh, cool. I lost two dudes versus one dudes down to two, down to one wound. Now, it's also not. See, this is why it was so much easier in 10th and 11th. in eighth and ninth you just lost guys period now you're taking wounds if you're feeling of pain you can just shake that off by the way oh it's done just lost guys period all right now let's talk about the leader thing because this one's a little bit wonky as been now i like this so the first

part of it i like the second part of i don't so the i guess it makes sense but it's weird but let's talk about i'm going to talk about the things that are different on this so before if you brought a leader back a lot of people had things that said, you know, Necrons, Battle Sisters, things. Let me back you up one bit, though. So one of the challenges before was if a leader is leading a unit, there's a bonus. So I'll use an easy one, war bosses. When war bosses lead a unit, they get plus one to their hit. Well, simple, easy done.

The problem is when that, if that war boss, if you killed the whole unit and the war boss was alive, that bonus is gone. So now the war boss goes back to hitting on those twos, those two's, because there's a power claw. You know, let's go threes. Okay. So. Which is a thing. Now they're saying, no, if he was ever attached to a unit, that bonus is there forever. So it stays hitting on twos, which is nice.

It's just a little bit of. That's nice. The bigger things is bringing guys back. But that, this is where this gets goofy. And I guess it makes sense. It used to be so annoying. So if I was part of a, I'm war boss Brad is leading a unit. And I am with 10 boys.

If I got killed and then brought back, I would no longer be. with that unit, I would be out of engagement range and not part of the unit. Now, if you precision out of the character, you prison out a sister, anybody that has the ability to resurrect a model, a character, Necraw and sisters are two that come to, immediately come to mind. Now, if I'm in combat, I rejoin my unit and I'm in engagement range and I continue to fight. So before, you just got sent to the side all weird, which I thought was stupid. You just you join the fray again.

Okay. And that's that is that part's fine. It's the other part where this goes back to the thing we mentioned earlier where, okay, if I kill a unit down and the characters left, I can't overwatch him if he runs behind a wall. But the case of necrons with reanimation protocols, that character could run behind a wall and hang out back there for a couple turns and regain three or four models.

and come right back out from behind that wall with quite a nice unit sliding back out. No, because the unit's not there anymore. No, the unit's still there. That's the units there. That's how I've interpreted this because the bodyguard, it still counts.

He's still, no, he just gets the bonuses from it. I'm looking at the abilities and attention. The unit. It's still considered. You know what? We're going to have to go to the rules guys for this one. Yeah. You know what?

We'll end on a question. How about that? That can be a question. That's how when I'm getting itself Reddit, but that's what that's how people have interpreted to me is that because they have, um, that still counts. It's still a full unit. That was the part I didn't like. You could actually res up. You could bring you, you'd bring the whole unit back. I can see that. If that is. Yes. If that is that if that is the, if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be wrong about that. And I'm okay with being wrong about that. But that was one of things I was pushing back on. So if I'm wrong, cool, forget my complaint. But that was the one that I was like,

Hey, that's not cool. So, yeah. So there's that one. Don't love it. Don't really care about the repositioning and the Strette reserve. That means nothing to me. Surge moves means nothing to me. Fly is awesome.

R is great. Plunging fire, stupid. Punching fire is cool. So the reason I'm like plunging fire is, so here's a problem of plunging fire. It's just a very simple problem. What ballistic skill do you give knights? The reason, the issue with plunging fire is there hitting on two's all the time.

That's what that unless you move in the fours, because the reason I might bring this up is that Tao players and Votan players know what I'm talking about. When you give an army a very easy access to plus one to hit GW has a history of reducing their ballistic skill. And so the problem is that do they then move knights to a ballistic skill of four, which is stupid. It's a knight.

I mean, as much as I don't really like knights, I will defend night players. It'd be like, that thing should probably not hit on 50% of the time. You know what I mean? That's dumb. You still have, like, they're going to have a hard time not getting people in cover and stuff like that because they're big. So, whatever.

But it's one of those areas where, like, that's why the issue of plunging fire is I like, I just think they shouldn't have to give it to nights. That's all, that was all my issue. But I think it creates a weird mechanic on night. It is, they have to be 12 inches away, which most of the time they'll be that. But it's, again, it's just one of those areas of, I think it's, we saw to start it. Let me say a different way. To start a 10th edition, how much fun were knights on the board? Dude, nights and right thing can go.

Yeah. And so we're opening 11th edition was the exact same thing. And so if powering not as much. Not standing, it's just one of those things. I'm like, come on, guys, this is avoidable. Unforced errors. Unforced errors. What are we doing?

Unforced errors. That's all. So I also did like the edition of Cleve. Another nice thing they did solve for is now. Last for hand-to-hand. Yeah, hand-to-hand. blast is nice one thing you know certain models like the lion obviously oh we got to talk about fight first in the second but the lion having the ability to have you know i can hit you with my

big attack on my sweep attack now a lot more people get this like kind of baby version of sweep which i like because it was a way to kind of hoard armies i play horde but there's kind of levels to hoard i would like to see not have to see gargoyles anymore on the board candidly right but gargoyles they get abusive pretty quickly. And I think this addition, it feels like I'll be kidding, reading a lot of the rules, someone doesn't like gargoyles.

Because like the nine inch, nine inch rule, right? You can't make a surge move if you come in from Deep Strike. You can't, I think if you make a search, there's a bunch of restrictions

and all have gargoyles do. And now you've added cleave. So basically gargoyles disappear if they're on the board. But we actually, when we talked about fight phase, we totally forgot to talk about how they, they did fight first and I couldn't be happy about it.

No, it is not, it is 100% what it should have. Exactly. So, no, it's, in valid, let me say better. They invalidated the abuse of fight first. Yes. It's a better. It was so dumb before. The line, all it is, all it is, the active player chooses the first fight.

Yeah. Of fight first. It was the defender before. So for those of you who don't play the game, one of the real problems in 10th edition was some models had a rule called fight first. And the way that 10th edition was written is the defending player actually has the first fight. And if they have a fight first, but charges give you fight first. But if defending player picks first, if they have a model with fight first, they pick first.

So in effect, a model with fight first who gets charged actually is the first model to activate. So a unit that's very powerful in melee with fight first was incredibly dangerous and almost invincible in some scenarios. And we'll use the lion is a good example of this. The lion had fight first or a judicier leading blade guard. Judge Judy. Yeah, just Judy. The issue is if you charge it, they will activate first and they will slaughter whatever you put into it. So you actually, so if you charge it, you're basically just giving them.

something to kill. And even if you charge you with two units, you had to charge it with two units that were tough enough to handle at least one chunk of the attacks in order to kill them back. And it was stupid. So these units would just, all you do was shoot them. Otherwise, they'd wander around the board just being left alone. In 11th edition, they have adapted this. And they've said, no, the player whose turn it is to attack gets to fight the very first fight. It's the first. And the fight first, which the fight first people are a little bit upset about because they realize their fight first characters are going to die pretty quickly because I'm probably going to fight that. It's effectively a free interrupt. So, I mean, it's where it should have been.

Yeah, I agree. It's where it should be. It's just, again, it lessens the value of those units. Like the Judiciary once again is going to get dusty. He got, he was really cool to start of, was it my condition when he came out? And then he got really dusty for a little bit. And then he got polished off. and you know, got a lot of play in 10th edition.

Now I was going to go back to being pretty dusty again. It doesn't really do anything otherwise. I don't know. You still can't fight multiple combats for free on it. So I still think that it's good. I mean, it's just where it should be. Will you run a judicier? I never read a judicier.

I know. But no, because it's a big deal. You remember thinking about orcs when you were a war horrid because of the fact that you had fight on death and interrupt, it was a huge deal. Get that for fun. It feels fantastic. Fight on death is amazing.

That is amazing. That's magnificent. What else we're missing? Psychic phase is still gone. Womp. Womp. But yeah, and then I think last little bit we'll get into is kind of what our hopes are for the addition then, because I think that's kind of all the rules that we probably should talk about.

And now, what do we think the addition's going to be other than brutally killy? It's going to be very alpha-striking. I think it's not just killing. It's going to be alpha-striking. It's all three-turn games. It depends. It'll be one of the things. saying yourself. Oh, wait, hold on, before we get this, if anyone wanted coaching on this,

could they email somewhere to get, to get coaching advice? You know what? You could. I won't get it. Old man, 40K in gmail.com. Anyway, but if you want to not get coaching advice, you could email that or join our Discord. But as far as this edition goes, I think, yeah, so if people want to build an army for 11th edition, that's probably iron hands, was iron worries wasn't a good call but I don't care I'm still doing it what should they be leaning into speed I think that speed speed damage yeah whatever yeah it'll still speed damage well my army shiny whatever that counts for something yeah it's just gonna be speed it's all getting angles basically this addition it's yeah it's getting angles at

the distance it's being able to close the distance and getting angles on people do you think that you can be tanky enough to survive do you know custodes can handle us that that's what I think Custodes are going to be fine enough because of the fact that rapid ingress and Deep Strike now exists. You know what I mean? They have good shooting. If you rapid ingress somewhere and you make it, again, rapid ingress is a stratagem that says at the end of your opponent's move phase, you get to bring a unit in. And Custodes come from the sky so they could put their models anywhere. I think this is super devastating now because of the changes to the melee being able to.

They could just touch your army after they put themselves in a perfect position. you're going to see people rapid ingressing on two and three every single turn every single game. I already see a lot of that. My question on custod's, though, is can they hold objectives in this edition? They can if all your guys are dead for sure. Yeah, because this is what I'm trying to figure out about this edition is I'm looking at it. You know, we're going to do having a bunch of people over and we're going to practice. I mean, you might be honest with you.

Maybe I'm completely wrong on that. I've been wrong. I'll be wrong again. You know what I mean? but I think that there's a real chance that you're not going to see that much tanky shit. I think that you're going to see a lot of damage come out. It's going to be funny.

That's what I'm wondering, because what I'm trying to think about is like, I don't know what, 13 armies, right? What do I own that could actually, that I could take that much shooting? Because the truth of the matter is, you have to be able to take a quarter of your opponent's shooting.

Yeah, you have to be, you're going to have to be, you're going to have to be in the open. and you're not getting the plus one. Plus one in cover save was a big deal. And that's what I'm saying. If I'm going through it, even if I think about my, you know,

I have death card army. So my terminators, I mean, they're tough, man. They're tough. But can they really handle a quarter of my opponent's army shooting at them, assuming there'll be AP one coming in?

They'll be in cover. I can probably get them into a terrain feature. So it'll be minus one to hit, but the opponent finds a way around that. But they're still, they're saving on threes. not saving on twos anymore i just i mean i this is what i'm wondering can they really hold an objective or are we going to be in an edition where you know you're just you're holding your home and you're

trying to hold one other you know and then you look at tau who coming up the board on your hard and fast they're going to be coming out of those devilfish all over the place overwatch is you know it's this this is why i'm wondering for an addition as far as building goes it is going to be a hold, hold, hold, just try to kill as much as you can and hope that they can't clap you back? Just ready? Garbage goes out, scores, and then you keep killing their garbage and then you kill their real shit. There you go.

But can the garbage go out and score, though? Because that's my thing. Yes, because some of the, well, we have to talk is when you see the missions, though. Like some of the missions are scored at the end of your turn now, as opposed to just holding things. I guess, I just, I saw a couple of those. I just my the thing is it's just there's nowhere to hide it's that element I just I look at these boards I look at these boards there's nowhere to hide and especially unless they change ranges man

auto canons got real good in this addition I'm glad I hadn't I was happy this stuff came out before I finished building this arm because I wasn't going to put auto cannons on my havocs now I'm like wow good dude yeah because before it's AP1 flat 3 damage wasn't that good now now tell me more about this AP1 flat 3 damage we're gone please yes it's such a big deal now oh my god like oh the last canons i'll still put them on there but api 1 flat 3 damage really but sustained really legit this could hurt yeah you can also push up on stuff i mean you're going to create stuff you're going to create stuff that you're what i'm saying you're going to create movement you're going to make people get you already have to do that a bit i do let as much as i like hiding and

abusing stuff because i play a competitive game yeah i love the fact that i can't just sit on a wall go to the new wall it's just it made the way that you play the game the same every time hell i coach that right now in 10th edition i go turn one and depending on the first your second turn two are the same thing every time yeah oh yeah i know exactly what you're going to do you know exactly what I'm going to do. That's just how the game's played. And maybe it'll be kind of that way. I don't know, but I'm hoping it's going to be different,

especially with the different detachments and the way that missions now work, depending on what attachments you have. Because we're playing a different mission based on what you brought and I brought. Yeah, completely. And although I'm waiting to see that that's the one piece I haven't seen yet, how the competitive piece is going to be. We see it in the casual. We'll see it.

Yeah. I actually think that this edition is the best casual edition. It is the best. Oh, hands down. The beer and pretzel version's amazing. It doesn't translate correct for competitive. So we're all waiting to see. I've seen everything. Yeah. But like for if you just come into your house and playing a game, this is awesome. Oh, this is going to be so much fun. You're going to have so much diversity. It is going to be a really great way to play the game. Really, really great way to play the game. It's that I'm excited for. My questions are still more around from at the tournament level because you just can't do that at the tournament level. I want to see. A little bit of pieces. 100%. But I think for now the addition is shaping up to be well. They need to fix that melee thing because that is dangerous.

I really do believe that the melee thing is the whole charge phase and the not limiting where I put my models is dangerous. It is going to get abused and it's going to have to get fixed pretty quickly because I guess, look, you and I are both friends. I mean, I'm friends with you. You play melee. I play me. I'm not very good at this game.

But we have friends between you and other people who are very friends between you and other people who are very good with melee armies who will make that a horrible experience. 100%. But it's going to be weird. Cough, cough, cough, Alan. See what we have on that. I'm excited for the new edition, though. Oh, it'll be great.

Yeah. And the truth is, like, we're supposed to have growing pains. The start of an edition is supposed to have growing pains. And I will say, the stuff coming out now, thanks to the way the world is these days, we figure out these growing pains quick. And with the way GW is, they can adjust them quickly. my expectation is that by November we'll have a pretty good version of this edition

and it will continue to improve as we go through. I just will not be surprised if when I play in July and August, there are some, all right, this game's going to suck games. That's okay. And that's okay. That's part of this.

That's just, I'm not upset about it. I just, whatever, you just accept it. I'm also playing with little dumb plastic figures. Playing with toy soldiers, maybe. I always look at that. But anyway, that's been good. I just wanted to kind of have something fun for you all to listen to Brad and I potentially be horrifically wrong about a few things.

As I am, want to be. If you want more competitive stuff, I will send you guys as a link in the show notes to Brad's channel. He's doing a lot more stuff over there where he talks much more competitively than I should or do or can. So check that out. Some really great stuff over there.

Give him a follow. Help his channel grow. But there we go. Until then, John Barcati, Bradchester. This guy. See you guys then.