The 40k Lorecast - Episode 104 - The Ultramarines pt 1

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

On today's cast we begin our coverage of the 13th legion the Ultramarines. Opening with their initial foray into the galaxy as the 13th legion. We review their early accomplishments including their large loss against the Osirian Psibrids. From there we jump to the savior of the Galaxy Guilliman, his origin story and him joining the emperor’s great crusade. We then finish off with the Ultramarines gaining redemption against the Osirian Psibrids.Patreon:www.patreon.com/The40kLorecastOur Website:https://the40klorecast.com/Discord Link:Discord.gg/40klcOur Sponsors:* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out Pebl: https://hellopebl.com* Check out Pebl: https://hipebl.ai* Check out Shopify: https://shopify.com/loreAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the 40K lore cast. Welcome to the 40K lore cast with me, John Barsati and Bradchester. This guy. It's party time, everybody. We are doing it. After two years of casting, I finally feel confident enough in our abilities to do the proper justice to the greatest of all the legions, the Ultramarines. We're out for how we're doing? Oh, come on.

We're doing this. If we do our lineup of special characters, we could do 73 episodes on them. Yeah, I did think about that, that if we did, this could just be the next six months of our lives, because if we do the named characters, there's over 20 of them. And I think almost all of them have a book. One of them has his own video game. No, two of them have their own video games. It gets a little excessive. So we'll see kind of what we do with this, guys.

I think it'll probably be three cast. It might push to four. We'll see. TBD. But anyway, 40K lore cast, the weekly show in the lore of the Warhammer 40K universe, released. every Monday at 7 p.m. Please follow and comment on the cast. We are now, again, ranked very well,

thanks to all of you and really appreciate it. The more you guys comment, the more you like, the more it spreads us out to more people, and that's just cool. It makes it fun to be ranked above. There are actually some podcasts I listen to that we are now ranked ahead of,

which is, I'll be honest, weird for me, just candidly. If you like the cast, when you hear more of Brad and I, you can either follow our other show, The History of 40K, also available on iTunes, Spotify, etc. Or you can also go to our YouTube page, the 40K Lourcast. There you'll find old versions of this show that have been converted over with imagery,

live Q&A sessions, the history of 40K, and our new short series, a whole bunch of stuff. So please check it out. In addition, if you like the show and you want to help us out, there's a link to our Patreon. Massive thank you to everyone who's contributed already. The improvements to the show, the expansion is because of the Patreon. Our Patreon is $4.99 a month. You get the show ad free for that rate, or 76.84 Maldivian Ruvia, which is interesting thing about the Maldives. They are the lowest and flattest country on the earth, just like Ohio.

As soon as you said flat, I was waiting for the Ohio jab. People in Ohio would go, they're like, this is lovely. But the cool thing about Maldives is, for those of you, who scuba dive, like myself, it's an incredible place to go. You've got bioluminescent plankton. You've got rich and thriving coral reefs, shark dives, which I actually like to love to do, and even large aquatic things, like the blue whales will come through on occasion. Did we get sponsored by the Maldives somehow that I don't know about?

No, I just, I told you, we're doing where in the world is Carmen San Diego. That's what this is every single week I'm doing something. But one note on the Maldives is if you want to go soon, because the sea levels are rising, and when you are the lowest, flatest place on earth, it's not great when the water goes up a few inches or centimeters. Look, I was just playing some sieve. All you have to do is put the walls around it and you'll be fine. Yeah.

Last of though, we also have a link to our Discord in the show notes. For those of you who like the show, I just want to interact with more stuff around it, especially with some of the new video games that are coming out, so the new novels coming out. Our Discord is a great place to get advice, help, etc. There's an entire channel for people who play Space Marine 2, look at our people to game with.

So come on in, come on over to do it. Brad and I are there all the time. You can ask us questions, tell us the stuff we got wrong. It's going to come up every single episode probably. I've never been wrong. But anyway. I can't wait to hear somebody just rip into me for that one. But let's have some fun with blue space marines.

Who, by the way, have always been blue. No change of the armor color. Oh, whoa. Light blue. Thank you very much. That's true. So I'm going to warn you all. Everyone has a favorite Legion.

And my favorite of the recognized legions, I actually do like some of the Carcadons, the Minotars, but not really a recognized Legion. Of the ones who, you play on the tabletop, is the Ultramarines. And it's not, to be fair, because I'm a shill for GW. It's because I was born in the 80s.

I like 80s and 90s action dramas, where the protagonist always has to pull off the victory at the last second. and that is Ultramarine's lore. No matter the odds are in their favor or the enemies, they always win at the very last moment with dramatic flair. And if you don't believe me, go play Space Marine too again. Well, let's just say John's favorite armor is plot armor. Yeah, it is.

I'm a shill. I'm actually a shill for bad writing, and I talk a lot of crap on bad writing. But there is something I like about, the excitement of, oh no he's going to fall into the pit of doom and then he doesn't at the last second this was the era that gave us like you know Indiana Jones I mean you had this is all we saw in our movies in this whole era it's Star Wars where I have to shoot I can blow up the a floating moon of attack with one shot down at air duct I guess that was the 70s but still same general concept I'll say

went back a little more you went back to Brad's time exactly all right but originally known as a Legion, but this time 13 is a lucky number. Whereas many other legions showed an aptitude for a specific style of combat, the 13th showed something a lot greater, which was restraint. No one is ever... I would say not just restraint. I would say versatility. Yes, that's a much better way of putting it.

Because the raw power you saw out of like world eaters, blood angels, iron warriors, space wolves, death guard, there is no question in it. But they were all suited really for a specific style of combat. Against more tactical foes, a lot of these monostylistic legions could be muted or countered because their battle plans which weren't diverse enough. So in order to achieve success, they were partnered with the 13th Legion. And that's how the 13th Legion first began to excel. I'm also going to point to me out before I dive into this diatri I'm about to go on everybody.

I'm not trying to badmouth the other legions when I do this. This is how GW writes the Ultramarines. So they write all the legions. as being the best and the best and the best, and they write the ultra-raines being, yeah, those guys are the best, but these guys are better. It's just how it is.

The thing about them is, when you talk Marines, the other chapters, the Blood Angels, the Space Wars, are their own separate thing. When you say Marines, they're almost always referring

to the Ultra Marines. Yeah. This is because the ultramarines were superior in thought and planning above all other legions. They might lose a few sordes against the other legions, but their mastery of

tactics and flexibility, they would always win the war. And we see this later, and it'll be on our next episode when we talk about how when the word bearers attacked, and they got them completely by surprise. And the ultramarans were able to take their moment, find the weakness, and then exploit it. That's just what the ultramarines always do. They never lose the war. They may lose the battle. And I'm a huge fan of them because of this, because I think that's what tactics are

supposed to be. I like this. It really shows them because they were deployed. with everyone. So they were in every mix because they were the most versatile, the most easily flexible chapter of any of the Marines. I'm sorry, legions, not chapters, but they could be sent anywhere because they would send whatever the other people needed in that particular battle. They would send units of ultramarines that would fill the gap. They were the spackle that you threw on whatever the battle was. And what I like about this, where again, when we talk about the

Ultraman's having plot armor. It is not a joke. They are the way the GW pushes stuff forward. So in the early days of the Great Crusade, the Ultramarines were sent out in small groups to be attached to the other legions as they fought. And in a pretty serious foreshadowing effect, when they would take part in these combats

or with other legions, they would then put iconogyn, ooh, I can't pronounce this word, iconography, iconography? I have to be iconography. I actually don't know how to pronounce that word. word, sorry, iconography. This is my, by the way, this is my first and kind of only language. There's a lot of words, I can't do it.

I love it. But anyway, they would start putting iconography on their armor to commemorate the achievement. The same way military sleeve insignias and service metals exist. We see this more modern day, like with Death Watch now have this. Most legions have, when you go and build your units, a lot of them would have little bits of, I'll call it, I'll call it flare that you can put on your models when you build them. It comes from the ultramarines. minimum flare on your armor, John.

At Chachkes? Although it's always going to go with shenanigans. I swear to God I'm going to pistol whip. Next to person says shenanigans. What's that place called down the road? You meant shenanigans? I like a lot of the original ultramines. We just got done talking about fourth edition

to one of our other cast. Back in the day and still in a lot of the models that they have right now, the ultramarines have, if you want to go with it, a ton of flare. in the models. You can... On the models. We say flare.

Brad means literally, if you painted the models, you put them on the board, every model looked different. And I could not agree more. It looks awesome. Because from a distance, they look like a sea of blue

with some white, whatever. Then you get close to them and you realize every model is a little bit different. And visually, from an artistic standpoint, it really breaks it up really well.

And so that all, this is something that exists in modern 40K, and the way that was introduced to it was through the lore of the Ultramarines. You're given out stickers. Ultramarines give out the most stickers. Yeah, exactly. However, after 30 years into the Great Crusade, the 13th Legion took their greatest challenge

and actually their first real loss and had a massive effect on the Legion and their legacy. So the first, this was called the Osiris Rebellion. Great Crusade is expanding and things are going really well. The Emperor and the Legion are just quickly pacifying the stars and making incredible gain into the galaxy. Most worlds actually were accepting imperial compliance, and those that didn't were taught a very hardened fast lesson. More importantly, at this stage, there weren't a lot of worlds who would accept compliance

and later go into rebellion. It was rare. They also had the night lords, which made that even rare once it started happening. If you weren't, if you weren't Zenos and you weren't full caressing done, and they hadn't really reached any of these yet, most everybody was pacified. pretty quickly, and they had a lot of Ws in the early parts of the crusade, because they just didn't meet, unless you were the dark angels having to go against some crazy stuff and other space moves who were sent to pound on something, you kind of were fed layups a lot.

They were chair picking a lot of wins here. They went into, and the Osiris Rebellion isn't an individual place. It's the Osiris cluster. There was a ton of 11 star systems that are known in there. So, like, this is a large place. And all of a sudden, you had a complete, it wasn't even a cutoff of communication. It was just vessels being seized, naval vessels being attacked, and losing control, not even contact, but control of entire sectors out of nowhere.

And what's really important about this sector is this sector didn't resist imperial compliance. When the emperor came in, it was actually bloodless. They signed over and signed a treaty and were super happy. This was actually viewed a very reliable sector, but also a very important sector. I think it had at least two hive worlds in it, a lot of raw materials, a lot of this stuff. So when the Osiris, and we say rebellion, Brad's hinted at there, but I want to dive home, there's levels to rebellion in this era. Most rebellions you hear about are, I'm not paying my imperial tithe rebellion,

or I want to renegotiate my imperial tithe rebellion. This was, they fired upon imperial naval vessels, totally different, and murdered every, imperial agent on the planets. So immediately what the Imperium does is they blockade off the cluster. The closest group to this was the Ultramarines. And their lord commander is a guy named Gren Vasotho. They say to him, fix this. So he looks at this and he assumes the rebellion, like any rebellion that had happened

with just some overly ambitious nobility, assuming that because his viewpoint is that these guys assumed that the emperor and the legions were far enough away. that they wouldn't come back. And also, it was known that the crusade was going that away, and they didn't want to come back, which they actually didn't want to come back. So you did get away with a little bit of this, because if you could just wait out the Marines,

you could usually negotiate a smidge with the imperial agents that were sent to you to talk about. Yeah, you might be get that tithe down from like 20% to 18, you know, a type maneuver. So Vasotho decides that this is a nothing thing, and I'm going to do a tactic that actually they call out as being one they learned from Horace, which was this cutting off the head of the snake method.

Rather than doing a protracted battle that just sacks a lot of worlds and costs a lot of thing, you figure out where is the leader, and then you go there real fast and you kill them. Because once they're dead, the rebellion usually is being fueled by that. And so this is a really good idea. The problem is that he was wrong. And he's going to discover this the hard way.

I feel like saying he was wrong, selling that wildly short. Well, he was grossly misinformed as what was really going on because no one knew what was going on. And when this entire plan, if he'd known what was really happening, he would have not done it. But he didn't. And so he didn't. And he did.

Yeah, exactly. So in order to pull this off, the problem is the 13th Legion have to deploy really aggressively and really fast, which means they had to leave all their support vessels behind because they're a lot slower and much less armored because they're going to literally jump in. All I'm saying is

when you're playing 40K, this is what's called overextending. And you get punished for it. Yeah, well, very much so. So because of this, the way it's set up is there are defenders and they have orbital platforms so they can fire.

So all he can really, if he wants to go hard and fast, he has to come in with just the ultramarines cruisers, for lack of a better description here, they can take some of the beating and they can give it out, and they move fast enough, they can avoid a lot of the firepower. So that's the idea. We're going to go in there,

basically just with space marines. We're going to land on this main hive world. We're going to go in there, and we're going to find the dude or people in charge and murder them. No problem. And then it'll be done deal. Yeah. No issues.

Yeah. Round one goes great. They get into orbit. They blow up. all the defensive satellites, they don't take a single casualty. They then prepare, they begin an orbital bombardment of the planet, taking out all of the planetary main defenses, so all of the main fortresses, all the local guns, etc.,

and then they deploy down to the planet, at which point everything goes sideways. Well, because everyone decided they blew up our planetary defenses, and I took offense to that. And who did? Everyone. Apparently, they were handing out two, for one bat sale because every single person on the planet just decided they were going to pick

up a stick with a nail in it and start running at people. Yeah. And that is in effect what happens. They land on the planet and there is a horde of people waiting for them there. And this just sea of people, it's the jam the wood shepherd style. It's the same thing that we ended up doing we, the Imperium ended up doing against the attack moon. I got you down this one, John. Yeah, I'm coming over on a Team Imperium. It's fine. I look much more like Imperium than anything else in the game. But yeah, so they begin actually just charging at the Space Marines over and over again. And what should have been a walk in the park becomes a slow trod. It's still going fine for the Space Marines because it's throngs of people who are wearing, you know, a Toga.

It's against a Space Marine. They're just killing them. But it takes longer. Watch Secret Level and you'll see what happens when regular dudes to go against Space Marines. Because, again, this is, by the way, in the lore, not the tabletop. On the, in the lore, a space marine against regular dudes, it slows them down with them. He will kill them all. On the tabletop, I'll bet on the guardsmen nine times out of ten. I've seen those dice rolls. I hope you can roll a bunch of three-ups.

Yeah. But eventually, the 13th Legion succeed, and they get to the main hive, which is the true source of the rebellion. However, this is not a planetary governor, but instead, Dead, dirty, stinky, filthy Zenos. Out of nowhere, ships that are described as having an hourglass shape that rotates come out of the sun where they've been hiding and start attacking. They've been hiding away. They start blowing up and attacking the ships in orbit.

At the same time, the space marines have been fighting through the populace. No, they've been fighting through a portion of the populace. The rest of the populace now comes out and start just basically jumping on them to pull them down and then they see the Zenos who are described as being partially ethereal in form and then wearing Baroque biomechanical suits, which I took to mean Steampunk, but GW didn't want to get sued, although I will admit Steampunk is technically Victorian, but Baroque Victorian Beepunk looks cool as crap. You don't talk bad about Steam punk. No, I'm not talking about see it. When GW described as

Baroque, Baroque is a very, it's interesting because there's nothing industrial and Baroque, so not really, and they really have art. You're not close enough for me to throw stuff at you right now. Stop trying to take the fun out of it with real logic about things. Oh, you want to think, say fun things? My mother has, a master's degree in

art history. You know how many art museums? I got drug to at seven years old. All of them. All of them. So yes, sorry, the knowledge is in there. We're going through this. Anyway, as this is occurring, Vasotho, is an ultramarine, so he is a tactical genius, and he realizes this battle is lost. He calls for a full immediate retreat and orders basically orbital bombardments to cover their retreat.

I love everything about this because he just goes, well, these guys are rebelling. Probably be in mind control by these Zenos, but I got to get my guys out of here. So let's just kill a few million people with just orbital bombardments and strafing runs. So we can get everybody loaded up on some Thunderhawks and back out of here. But what happens? Exactly all those things. A bunch of strafing runs, orbital bombardments, and a large section of the Legion does escape.

Vosotho himself does stay behind to continue firing as the last ship departs, because that's what you do when you're a hero. And he does. The remainder of 13th Legion then depart, and they retreat back to where the blockade was set up around. What's interesting is that shortly thereafter, the Imperium launches a second invasion, This time with a full solar armada, the 18th Legion, and the 13th Legion.

So the Salamanders would become the Salamanders and the 13th Legion. And they come in there, guns blazing, only to discover all the planets are basically empty. Well, they all laid down. Moran, go watch Serenity. That is exactly that scene with Serenity. They describe it. I forgot about that. And what they found was that there's just dead humans ever who just laid down and died.

But two interesting pieces. One, the numbers didn't quite add up. There are millions of missing people. There's millions of missing. Implying that they were taken with them by the Xenos, because obviously the Zenos are missing too. And the few humans that still hadn't starved to death, they were, of course, plugged into a machine to check their memories, completely wiped. There's no evidence whatsoever of what happened. And they also had no ability to do anything.

They were just drooling. They went factory reset, just take it back to zero. And in the aftermath of this, the Imperium starts looking back. to it. They realized the Zenos were a massive threat to the galaxy, now called the Osirian cybrids, they were a super-sychic species that could enthrall massive populations and utilizing them for their own gains. And when they started looking at the records for the whole region, the real is the Osirians had been there for a while, fomenting small rebellions all over the place and just creating strife and problems for the Imperium. We're going to leave the Osirians now.

We're coming back to them at the end of the cast, but let's just say all space marines can hold a grudge and the ultramarines are not above that. Yeah. You don't hear a lot about the Osirians anymore, but... Yeah, they didn't make it. Spoiler alert. They didn't make it to the 32nd millennia.

But, actually, or the 31st, technically. So because of the failure of the Osirian rebellion, the 13th Legion actually fell into almost a state of Malays. This is their first real loss. of the crusade, and it was a big one. Same with the Ragdan, with the Dark Angel. Yeah, exactly. I think they got a little bit of the same.

Because of the fact, they didn't just take a loss. They got first round caoed. They got crushed. I mean, they got duped. No, this is the thing. There we are. That's supposed to be these tactical geniuses. We always know the right plan.

They got duped. They also were known for not giving collateral damage and instead they obliterated the populace and were also 100% zero percent, sorry, zero percent success on getting the people back because everybody dies. They so they're getting nothing from that. So they get wrecked. Not only are they, did they lose, they got duped and all loyal imperial citizens, zero of them were saved.

So we lost every single people. peace. So it was just a devastating loss. It wasn't just a, hey, we lost a hard fought battle. No, you got shalacked and you lost and you gained. No objectives were achieved in this. Now, what I will laugh about is what happens next is this is what I'm going to tell you next is canon. And I hope you'll appreciate how much GW loves the Ultramarines. So they had this moment of failure. All of the pieces of Ultramal Legion begin to endeavor for more and more combat. They're going to show off that they're not a failure. They're a success. And in this period of time, they start winning conflict after conflict after conflict in an effort to prove their worthiness.

They actually were almost better for the imperial. I was what to say. Post this. Yeah. It was also, they weren't just winning like brutal battles. They were winning in the debate club because more people under imperial decree than anybody else at this time. And they were doing it by diplomacy and the show of force as opposed to the battle. Yeah. So they were amazing, but they were sad. And they were also sad because at this stage, other prime arcs had been discovered and theirs hadn't yet. So obviously, as every one of these cast we've done, you guys know what we're doing now,

now we're going to jump over to Gillum and, Gilliman, Gilliam and Gilliman, Gilliam and Gilliman, Gilliman. I'm trying to avoid getting the vapors here as I start covering Gilman. For just a second, I will stop calling him Bobby G. And I will refer to him as reboot Gilliman. Yeah, rebootee. Sorry, reboot A gilliman. Yeah, Gilliman. We'll cover that name in a second, guys.

Don't worry. I'm not going to that one pass. But like all primarks, Gilliman was stolen while in his gestation tube and warped across the galaxy in effort to be tempted by chaos. Now, this next bit here is my opinion, but I think I'm right. I think Gilliman was tempted with success and superiority. Given the chance to show how good a ruler he was, the chaos's viewpoint is he would therefore not respect or kowtow to the emperor,

who's kind of a jackass for being honest, formatting dissent within him and then turning him against the emperor, which was a nice plan, but Rabutee Gilliman is, we're talking about Rabutee Gilliman, guys. He's not going to be a traitor. Like, he's not fallen for your tricks. He's not that vain. So, anyway, the story of Rabute is actually, and McCraig is kind of interesting.

So as a child, he's sent to McCraig, which is on the eastern fringe of the galaxy, also on the right side of the galaxy. Just saying? It's the right side. So McCrug is the capital world in a star system with a decaying star, which that decaying star matters a lot more later, not initially. What's important about it is that they did pretty well through the Dark Age of Technology. They retained.

Let's talk about this. Bobby G. got sent to a pretty awesome, not just world, but full system that's still trading with one another. Bobby G's setup wasn't that bad. I'm willing to admit he may have, this is, yeah, I might be rooting for the trust fund baby of the prime marks. I was just about to say he did so well. with daddy's money. It was a tough time that I only had two Mercedes-Bed.

What is it? Is it the, no, it's Anchorman 2 where the guys, I took the $100 million for my father and after five years of hard work and toil, it's $1.1 million. We'll be right back after a quick break. But anyway, let me enjoy my Bobby G.

So McCrigg as a system still has warp travel ships available to it. So they've been trading across the whole area. They're basically a mini-imperian. And McCrack is run by what I would describe as a post-Magnacarta, England, in that you had a ruler called a consul who shared his power amongst nobility class, and then beneath them with no power to speak of whatsoever was everybody else. So it's not quite Magna Carta King, but closest one I can think of.

And the story of Gilliman is good, but also a little hilarious in the way GW handles it, because they just randomly do stuff. They're like, oh, yeah, and then that's normal. So the first thing I start off with is a bunch of hunters are in the forest. They come across his capsule. And inside it, they find a beautiful baby. GW's words, by the way, beautiful baby. A little bit weird.

I have a child. My friends have children. I have nephews. I have nieces. I have all these things. They're not beautiful, man. It's creepy. It's a creepy guy.

In my mind, it was like he showed up like boss baby in the suit with a briefcase. It might as well. So then they take the baby in front of the console of McCrague named Connor, which is spelled incorrectly, K-O-N-O-R, don't know why, but Connor, Gilliman is his last name, and who I guess had been having dreams about the emperor, not like he didn't know the emperor, but dreams about it, which again, you can read that however you want, you can read it the way GW wrote it, which is a foreshadow of events, an important thing was happening, or you can laugh and think of some more hilarious ways you can be dreaming of the emperor and just enjoy it because that's, of course, what my weird brain did.

Anyway, upon looking at this very beautiful baby, Connor adopts him as his son, in which something G.W. writes, a manner not uncommon for their culture. Yeah, like, how often are you finding babies in the woods? Yeah, apparently, it's common in. Enough. Yeah. Yeah. In McCrigg, in the culture of the people of McCrack, if you find a random baby in the woods, you adopt it. To be fair, that's better than what they did on ball, which was murder random baby you find.

So they're better people, but still weird. Oh, then he names him Rabutei, because now this way we have a misspelled Connor and a messed up version of Robert. Let's talk about the fact that Bobby G. makes some pretty good gains in the first couple years. Oh, this is hilarious. Yeah, the next piece of it, at 10 years old, Gilman runs out of things to do because he's read every book and learned everything that there is to know. in all of McCrick, and memorized all of it. So at that point, they put him in charge of the military.

He's 10. He gets just, they're like, hey, what's the next best thing for you to do? Why don't you just run the military, man? He's like, okay. I mean, he is 10 in gigantic because he's a prime. Yeah, I did see a funny meme the other day where it was a picture from some like 80s siph and we were the child's 11 feet tall and they're like, look, a primark. That's basically what this was.

And also, I think the prime marks at 10 may have been shaving. Like, it's, let's call a spade of spade here. But Gilliman takes said military, and he goes to the north of McCrague where there were outcasts. And these outcasts were raiding and pillaging the, quote, civilized lands of McCrigg. And they had resisted all prior campaigns in the area to quell them. Because, yeah, the people who still had space travel and weapons from the Golden Asia Technology couldn't handle rebels in the mountain.

Yeah. I like this writing on this thing. Don. Let's talk about what happens, though. This part is cool. Yeah. Conquers them, but, quote, I'm doing air quotes, even though no one can see me. They won their respect.

And I'm going to bring it back to if a 10-year-old shows up and pummels everybody that I'm with, I'm going to have to give him some props. He's going to get my respect, man. I just got beaten up by a child. And I also want to point out, you know what no one else did? None of the other Primarks did? This. All the rest of the primarks are like,

conquered the area. Gilman went up to the north with an army and came back with a larger army. Pretty good deal. Now, the truth is what he ended up doing is really cool. This is why Gilman is actually awesome. So when he got up there, he challenged the leader of the rebels to a duel. And in the entire duel, he never attacked. He just dodged until the leader fell over with exhaustion. Then after he's lying there exhausted, Gilman presents him with a gift. And the gift is Gilliman learned in all of his reading that the reason the rebels were upset was that the nobles of McCraig had stolen some sacred art effect. They never say what it is, but some sacred artifact brought it from those particular people. He brought it with them and he handed it over to them as a way as a peace offering.

And I want to point out. Go ahead. But this was written by British people, which is either incredibly self-aware or incredibly ironic. And I don't know which one of it is. him and get one of your things back. Yeah. But also Cleopatra. They have Cleopatra.

I have to give, again, talk to you about getting beat up by a 10 year old because he just weaves and doesn't do anything. He just doesn't let him hit him. He doesn't need to do that, though. He could have led with the. Oh, yeah. Oh, he could have to open with, I brought you something. I will challenge you to a duel.

Yeah. You're like, none of you didn't have to do any of these things. He just made that guy sad. And then went, oh, yeah, I brought this too. Come on. Let's go back. And he's, I guess. but also what was the whole dual thing for, man?

Not cool. Why did you have to? You're right, you're right, because he did it in front of all of his friends. You're right. It didn't occur to me, though. He just said that in front of all of his friends. Everybody just makes everyone go, so our leader's kind of a bitch. Yeah, remember the time that I leader got beat up by a 10-year-old?

Yeah. Also, couldn't land a blow on him. And then it looked like the guy got bored. And then went, oh, yeah, here, I feel bad for you. Here's your leader spent so much time missing, punching. a 10-year-old that he fell over with exhaustion. Yeah, that's what happened. Maybe he shouldn't, yeah, maybe, I guess it doesn't.

I don't think he's a definite guarantee. They were like, whoever you say is our new leader is our new leader, because this dude is for sure out. At that point, Gilliman goes back to the capital of McCragg. And upon getting back to the capital, he finds it besieged from within. Turns out one of the other consuls to his father had betrayed him was leading a coup. There's a lot of details in this coup. It was a drunken mob at one point.

Just it's not, I don't love it, I'll be, but I like the bit that they get to. So, Gallen, who was a member of the McCragg nobility, and it turns out the nobility had a pretty good life until Gilliman's dad arrived because McCriggins was built on slave labor. And Connor, Gilliman, wanted to get rid of all the slaves and wanted to make the people equals. And this was sentiment shared by Gilliman. And this other guy, Gallen, felt differently. And this, by the way, goes real fast in the books, but it's just funny. Gilliman and his army go to the Capitol. Oh, hold on, because you're going to tell Gilliman and the guys and his group put down the rebellion,

which is a huge understatement because they strung all the rebels up in the streets. Yeah, and separated them because, again, like any good Excel spreadsheet, proper spacing, between them and just hung them all from the streets. Yeah. Gilliman arrives to run solo, which really isn't hard when you're a prime mark, where these are all regular people, runs solo to the Capitol, which is actually in ruins. And he pulls through the ruins and finds his dying father. The plot, this is so just dramatic of a scene.

And his father on his dying breath, and by breath, it's like a paragraph he gives out. Details to Gilliman, who betrayed him, why he betrayed him. who the assassin was that tried to kill him and all these things. This is full Shakespeare on this. He does the whole avenge me, but also make everything better for the populace of a McCrack. Yeah. But also remember to avenge me. I want to go back to that one one more time.

Yeah. So Gilliman goes full early Robes Pierre, not late or middle Robes Pierre, but early Robes Pierre, and just wrecks shop. He immediately grabs all the other nobles, executes all of them, takes all the inherent. It entitles all their positions and redistributes it throughout the entire populace and turns McCraig into a meritocracy. Or Brad, as the macho man would say, Re rises to the top. Yeah, that is a C.

Rises the top, a C. He builds what I would like to call the macho man society. Not the YMCA version or village people version. Anyway, so shortly after this, the emperor arrives in the system. but on another planet. And on this planet, he hears all the stories of what's happened on McCrack about how this orphaned from the woods. By the way, there's a bunch of orphans from the woods. It's like the theme throughout the primarks has turned this entire planet around.

And the emperor is super excited and heads over to McCrague to go pick up his son. But the gods of chaos throw one last ditch effort in to try and mess this system up. And the emperor gets stuck in a warstorm for five years or at least five. years real time. Who knows about the warped time? And when he arrives, yeah, Gilliman has now been in charge for five years. And Gilliman has done a lot. He's now

completely taking over, rewritten the laws of the entire sector, which he is now, I guess basically he is the emperor of this. Yeah, he's not the emperor of what becomes known as Ultramar. And it completely changed everything. The emperor shows up to this

system that is working. If anything, no one was more successful before the emperor found them than Gaiman, not even close. Ultramar is hands down the most successful region in the galaxy at this stage. They might still be, yeah. They've been attacked a bunch of times, but I think probably still is.

Yeah, it's just he comes and he finds that he's got things running on clockwork, because if anything that you don't like about Bobby G, you know what happens? Things show up on time They're running like a fine oil machine. And also, he's got wild, you have to say he has fairness in here. People are treated pretty well. The people are, the people of Ultramar are doing, or they're doing great. I would also argue joining the Imperiums, the worst thing ever happened to Ultramar.

Anyway. Oh, for sure. Before the emperor showed up, Ultramar was a pretty great place for everyone. And then they got mobilized for war and things did. It's still better. It's still better than all the other recruiting worlds. Sure. For sure.

But one of those worlds is necrumunda. Yeah, I was going to say, this system now is not great. Yeah. Even with all his success, as soon as Gilliman meets the emperor, he immediately declares his fealty to him, which, by the way, it occurred to us writing this. That's really weird thing to do when you meet your dad. See, the first time you meet your dad, if you've never met your dad, the first thing you do when you meet him is declare fealty to him,

that's probably why you've never met your dad before, and you should, would probably not ever meet him again. Just good life for me. Yeah, but I do the fact that they go through the fact that Bobby G. ran through a million different potentials of this and then decided that he was worthy of his fealty after he ran through everything. Just in that moment he analyzed the emperor. And the emperor looks at Gilliman and just goes here and gives him the 13th Legion.

And then he goes, all right, do stuff with this. And Gilliman does stuff. My favorite part of really this whole thing, and Brad and I're going to fight now, is deal with it is true. I think Brad's wrong about Vulcan being the only good guy in 40K for two reasons. One, I think Gilman is a lawful good paladin. And second, I don't think Vulcan is because Vulcan committed a war crime. And Gilliman didn't. Gilliman has done a lot of stuff to get...

Really? Did he get angry and burned an entire planet full of people? No, but he has whacked sectors. to make sure that for the greater good, basically. It is for the greater good, but not because that sector made him angry. Well, they shouldn't have talked so much shit. Yeah. I'm glad that Vulcan was sorry afterwards, but it is my opinion.

He did change his life around after it. Yeah, neat. So lots of people do that when they're on death row in prison. They still murdered all those people. No one was going to testify against him. There wasn't anybody left there. That is actually a fair point. There's not a lot of evidence there.

So anyway. He's not going to jail. anytime soon. I just, yeah, my opinion is, I think Gilliman is possibly the goodest guy in the galaxy for the imperialist. He's the most goodiest. Yeah, the goodest guy. Because he's not good.

He's just the goodest. That's the most important there. I would say that he would be, if you're going to alignment, he could be a lawful good paladin that has the parentheses neutral afterwards because he's willing to do what has to be done to save the most amount of people. He's very pragmatic, very pragmatic. That's why I think he's lawful, because he's following the law of...

I'll give you law, but I think he probably skews. The longer he goes, the more he goes towards neutrality, because sometimes you got to make a planet not exist anymore so the Tiernan's don't get more supplies. Those are things that Bobby G. has done.

But he did evacuate most of those planets whenever possible. I like the key word would be most. Most. Most, yeah. All right, but anyway, back to the Gellemino-13th Legion. They set out to the galaxy and not to be to conquer it, but to actually increase the size and scope of the Imperium

through efficiency and planning. Tremar, the system is turned into a recruiting world, which immediately starts pouring recruits into the ultramarines, more so than any other Legion. More on that later, guys, because there may be a little bump they got there. But what's important is as the ultramarines conquered, new planets and systems, they copied the Ultramar system.

Planets were not added to the fold and told, all right, figure it out. I think this, I'm going to give my big deal for the cast on this one. This is the biggest deal about early ultramarines because they didn't conquer, roll out, and throw random Ted, the imperial governor, and say, figure it out. They made new Ultramars everywhere they went. They rebuilt. They were structured. They showed them.

They added technology. They added, they immediately gave them trade routes. That's one of the big things they write about is they add them to existing trade that's already happening. So you have all of the goods, all of the goods, food, everything that you would need, and they show you how to use it before they leave. And they're so efficient about this that they actually don't lose time in conquering new worlds, even though they're doing this. For instance, you go into Lorgar, who kept setting up idols to the emperor.

And he got in trouble because he was so slow and continuing the crusade. Yeah, no, the Ultraman did quick. Another one that I do want to point out that he did was, I think it's important, is he did enact a lot of regime change, a lot of it. Gilman and the Ultramans got to a planet where they found much like what was going on McCrug, where we had planetary governors or rulers who were using slaves, who were doing stuff like that, they would just remove them, which is why, I think, one of the many reasons, when Gilliman arrived back on Terra in, like, M-41, the Lords of Terror were not thrilled.

to see him because he has kind of a history of people like them not doing it. If you're abusing the people underneath you, you're about to get punted into the sun. Yeah. But what happens is over the remainder of this Great Crusade, the Ultramans end up conquering more worlds than any other Legion by a wide margin. And it's because Gilman was so skilled at war, but also knew that it had a time and a place. whereas all of his brothers, except for maybe Magnus, favored these displays of might,

Gilliman knew that conflict just bred more conflict. Well, one of the biggest things about this, the systems that the Ultramarines conquered stayed, conquered, and loyal in wildly better percentage than any other Legion. Because he set that groundwork, and you could say the Ultramines are boring, blah, blah, whatever, they do get the job done and they keep it done.

That's the thing. Because when you say get the job done, the implications, oh, they achieved it. No, they got the job done and got all stars, five-star reviews. People are happy to have been conquered by the ultra-rines in the end. The populace loves the ultramarines when they leave for most of the time. And this is because Gilliman really did avoid conflict unless it was necessary. He had a great line where he said, the loss of each legionary weakened the whole of the Legion. So he really did only use conflict when he had to use conflict.

And so he pulled, to Brad's point, all these bloodless victories. So these worlds are just coming over, joining the Imperium. And because of what the ultramarines do, they don't have to spend as much time now on war. They now spend their entire time on setting the world up for success. So to Brad's point earlier, they're still off world pretty quickly, but they leave a world that's prosperous, safe, and growing. And this is what ends up happening is word starts to spread. They don't have to show up like some of the other legions were. They have the snarling world eaters with them.

If you don't listen, I'm going to let them down on the planet. They just basically say, hey, here's a video of the last seven planets we went. Basically showed with the references. Here are references of prior systems we've conquered. Here's my yump reviews. Look at all these. They're glowing. Five stars.

Fun. No bots. No bots. Five stars. Yeah. It was really good at this. And I do think the fact that while Bobby G's superpower is he's effectively the best tactical bureaucrat in the galaxy, but it does make it so he also didn't have the same I need to show dad how awesome I was because he's,

I don't think he's a big of true believer is Dorn. Like Dorn, for instance, was a believer in the imperial doctrine. I think Bobby G. really wanted to make the Imperium work. and this is how it was going to be the best. You know, after did our Cypher cast, I think Bobby G has more aligned with Cypher than really most than anyone else. Where Bobby G wanted humanity to succeed,

he wanted people to do well. That's what he cared about. And he saw within the emperor a way to make that happen. Whereas I think most of the other Primarchs saw humanity as weak. 100%. And Gillen probably still does, but he views it as a protect.

like when we cover the night cast and some of that nobility. Even the lion has this in him as well to a point, although he's a grouch. But it's his job. He feels that it's his job. But he looks at it in a grander way, which is, I'm in charge of all of humanity. How am I going to make all of humanity work? I want all of humanity to prosper, et cetera. Now, I will say one thing that we need to get out of the way, and this is the best place to do it,

is the ultramarines are really large. We talk about large, just for numbers sake, leading up to the Horace Heresy, the ultramarines were listed at a quarter million. So, 250,000 Marines, not Marines and support. No, just Marines. That puts them 50,000 over second place, which is the Dark Angel. So 25% larger than the second largest. For reference, Ravenguard, Deathguard, Salamanders, Thousand Suns, White Scars were barely 8.000. a third the size of the ultramarines.

The ultramarines themselves, I did some math. I did some math. These guys make up over 8% of all space marines. Now, how did they get this big? And I love this in the writing. So it was hinted. It might have something to do with the two missing primarks. And this, by the way, is canon.

So the emperor went into the galaxy, as we said before, he had 20 full... Legions of space... ...a hundred thousand. Yeah. Each of these legions had shared a gene seed with a yet to be discovered primark. Only 18 of those primarks are heavy air quotes here,

discovered, or I'll go with the word, recovered. It's probably a better one. Yeah. We have no idea what happened to the two. There's no writings on them. GW's never done anything with them. But given the power of a primarer... They're all redacted when they list them, though.

Exactly. But what I want to point out is, given the power of a primark, it's not like they landed in the woods and got eaten by a wolf. Like, they were most likely destroyed. by the emperor when he discovered them because they'd likely fall into chaos. Well, again, chaos tried to corrupt all of them to different ways, different. They put different trials on each one. They threw them.

None of the went to somewhere, well, besides this, none of the winter somewhere super easy. Hey, there were challenges on McCragg. There was no challenges. This is the Bobby G. is the nepotism baby of all time. His sweet 16, was he going to do the range roll? was you going to do the BMW 6 series? It was a tough life for Bobby G.

I don't know why you're being so mean. Yeah. But yeah, the two missing are most likely killed by Valdor, who's fun side note in Constantine Valdor, he wanted to murder all of the Primark as soon as they went missing. That was his immediate thought. Yeah, because he said they got taken by him. Kill him.

I'll go, I got my knife. I'll be back in whenever. He also going to kill a mom because of it too. Yeah, there's a lot of, there was a lot of murder. I'm a fan. But he was like, well, this. project went wrong, let's just kill them. Yeah.

I constantly, Veldor is hilarious if you read him right in the lore. He's horrible, but if you read him a certain way, it's funny. But anyway, after disposing of the primarks, the emperor has a choice. And his choice was destroy the entire legions, but that feels kind of like a bit of a waste because these are all Terran born, where there's a little bit of other guy's gene seed. And so he decides to do something that is not fan fiction. This is in the books. He folds them into the Ultramarines.

Yeah. It's a few different books. hidden in, but basically they use the guides of the Ultramar providing endless recruits as a cover story, but in reality they were actually folded in. There's conversations between Magnus and Lorgar. There's a conversation between Dorn and Malkador. These are separate books where the emperor has wiped from their memories, the actual primarks themselves, but they know little bits and pieces.

And there's a lot of comments made through a few different books about the incredible size of the Ultramar. Well, they talk about the fact. One of the comments is one of the times when the Ultramarines take huge losses, but they still have 250,000 Ultramids. Yeah. And they're like, wait a minute. Didn't they just take horrific losses here? You're like, yeah, but whatever. So the last bit we're going to cover on the cast is going back to the loss earlier, the loss of the Assyrians.

So we foreshadow, we never foreshadowed that far. See, Ultramarines had proven themselves great conquerors of human settlements, time and time. time over, bloodless campaigns, et cetera. But Ultramar does also sit on the eastern right side of the galaxy. This is an area that the Eldar worked that prevalent in, which means there's a lot of pretty advanced Zenos out there. As a result, we're, because we spent a lot of time to talk about how good the ultramarines are at bringing planets into the fold. They were also really good at killing Zenos. They were masters of tactical warfare. And, you know, what they were really good at is actually utilizing adaptive warfare. So some people were going to lightning drop assaults, space wolves,

other protracted sieges, covert ops, obviously, whatever you want to call what the world leaders do is. But they all had their thing. The ultramarines were masters of adapting their tactics midway through. So they would go in with a great battle plan that 99% of time would work. But if it didn't, they would take them, when I say a moment, like a millisecond here, diagnose why it's not working, find the weakness in the enemy, counterattack. That's always what the Ultramarines do. In the game, I just want to throw this in for the game, because Ultramines were the only people that used to be able to combat squad, because they could adapt their tactics. That was the whole thing that's that they were adapting to whatever they saw in the battlefield.

Yeah. And so what happens is the Ultramines, this is a really great tactic when going up against orcs and the endlessly unnamed species of the galaxy because they don't exist anymore, thanks to the ultramarines. But upon taking over the Legion, Gilliman had read about what happened with those cybrids. Gilliman didn't really care about the lost honor of his chapter because they more than earned it back at this point. He was more concerned about these cybrids because they, he decided they decided,

he decided they presented a massive threat to humanity. This is why Bobby G is neutral because when Bobby G decides somebody could do bad in the future, future, he decides they no longer need to exist, which is what he does here. Yeah, but it's also, he's not wrong, but yeah, so he's okay. You're not going to win this one. He's better than Vulcan. Just deal with it. He's not as cool as Vulcan. Actually, yeah, he is. All right. So with the whole time that the ultramarines are spreading through the galaxy, kind of the same way the dark angels were always looking for evidence of the fallen. Gilliman was always

on the lookout for the Osirian. He'd find hints of their existence, but the trails had all gone cold. It's rogue traders about massacres or large disappearances, rebellions on entire planets where everyone's wiped out to a man, all of it, but they were always post. You couldn't find anything about Osirian's location until 899 of M30. In 899 of M30, Gillum and the Ultraman get word that the 12th Legion is in trouble. Also, it's the 12th Legion pre-Angron, so it's, Still, the warhounds. And also, again, primarkless. So all the legions just operate better once they get their primar.

Exactly. Gilliman heads to the system and finds this entire area with an insane amount of destruction. The space is littered with debris from destroyed craft. They go planet's side and recover the warhounds, few of them were left of them, and start talking about what happened here. And they find out the warhounds had been sent to a region to engage an orc force. While fighting the orcs, this other Zenos appeared in the system with spinning hourglass. I'll say spinning hourglass ships.

Yep. And obviously it's the Osirians. The Osirians then actually thralled these orcs that the warhounds were fighting against. Which shows you that they're pretty badass psychers at this point in time. Yeah. To just needs to take over the orcs. Yeah. Yeah. And then they turned the orcs against the war hounds while at the same time going down to the human colony that was there and actually enthralling them. This area, by the well, it's called the Euridic terminal for the record. However, while they were doing this, a bunch of other orcs show up. Having sensed a battle, the Glortian Empire, because they were led by the war boss, glort.

Lort. I like, because why not? Glort, who, by the way, are still a playable faction in modern 40K. They are a free Buddha fleet, but they still do exist. The glorts upon arrival, because there's a lot more of them, are able to resist the psychic powers of the Osirians. And then just decide, orcs are going to ork, there's a fight to be had. We're having the fight. So the glort orcs attack the Osirian thralled orcs, plus the Osirians, plus the planet. And now you've got this whole sector is on fire.

Hold on. Hold on. This part is dumb because the guy that's the ultimate tactical mind decides that he doesn't need reinforcements because he needs to have his legion redeem themselves on crushing them. I'm like, no, he would sure, for sure, it went, oh yeah, you guys can come along because it would be great to have reinforcements. Yeah, no, Gilliman refuses the offer of the warhounds to join them and says, no, we're going to do this solo. And I like what he does next. He comes, Gilliman takes him a moment and surveys the battlefield and surveys the situation and realizes pretty quickly that the only way to achieve victory against the Osirian is to do a head-on fast assault. And he realizes this because of what he's looking at, but also it happened the last time they fought the Osirians, where the Osirians just will throw endless chaff at you. And while you're trying to chew your way

and fight through that chaff, their capital ships, by the way, are larger than the imperial ships. And they're also, their weaponry was said to be more powerful from a distance. So it would easily pick the ultramarine fleet apart over time. So instead, he decides to ignore all of the orcs, all of the thralled humans,

and just focus on attacking the Osirians. This all, by the way, is from the Black Library book, Tempest. Battle's pretty epic, although it's actually not that many pages, but it's still pretty cool fight. That's what is. We got it right. Five. Book five.

As usual, I was going to try to do it from memory as opposed to the notes that we have right in front of me. Yeah, in front of your face. Yep. So the ultramarines detect the Osirian ships behind a bunch of orcan imperial chaff, and they just beeline at them. When I say beeline at them, I don't mean engage them in naval warfare. I mean, they drove up next to them and fired assault rams into them.

And the assault rams are the thing, if you've seen a starry. on YouTube, which if you haven't, go look that up. It's absolutely incredible. But it's basically a torpedo full of space marines that you shoot into a ship. And when in the ship, it opens and the space marines get out immediately shooting at everything. And this is a really classic space marine tactic.

They enter the vessel with a combination of regular Marines behind Terminator Marines. And Terminators are so much cooler in the lower than they are in the game, but especially when you're talking about boarding missions because Terminators mop the floor with regular people. Regular warrior, regular space marines, they mop the board with them, the floor with them.

And their tactic is amazing because they're pushing forward, pushing forward, but the entire time they're going, they're slamming melta bombs, which is just ruining the ship. So they're destroying the parts of the ship as they're continuing on. And they basically do this until they get to appoint either the bridge of the ship or they just putting up melta bombs down that the ship begins to implode

at which point they teleport or just get picked up and go back. So they start doing this to the entire Osirian fleet, pulling the ships down, until the capital ship of the Osirian fleet comes into view, lashing out with its macro weapons and just wrecking some ships. So at the same time, this thing arrives,

a bunch of enthralled orcs and human start hurtling themselves at the ultramarines. And as thick as the... hordes of attackers are, they're not as thick as Gilliman's plot armor. Best thing that you wrote this entire thing. Yeah, because, man, so Gilliman himself leads the assault in the capital ship. And with his retinue, I'm getting there, of Terminators and what is, at this moment, the most powerful Cyker in the Legion, Ptolemy.

Because every now and then, G.A.W. has to write a name really quickly and just go, screw it, I'll use an old one. And I don't know if he means Ptolemy the Greek or Tolemy me the Roman, but either way, no homage. Because that's what the ultra rains are based on. We continue. But Ptolemy the Greek was with Alexander the Greek. So that's why, Toli me that the Roman was a mathematician. And this is a cycle.

He's probably, he's a combo. Let's just be honest. He's, yes. By the way, did I mention John was raised in the classics? It's really subtle, isn't it? It is useful now, but just, God, I was a nerd as a child. I guess I'm a nerd as an adult. Who am I saying?

What are you talking about? Yeah, I have a lore cast. Nothing changed. Nothing changed. It just got cooler to be this nerdy. That's really all it changed. Thanks, Universe. Anyway, as Gilman and his crew pass into the inner sanctum, they find the king of the Assyrian there. And of course, because we have plot to do here, he's three times the size of Gilman and possessing psychic powers that would challenge Magnus, rises up to kill Gilman and the defenders. And this next bit is written epic, but of course I read it with my silly brain,

so I'm going to give you both. Silly brain. I love the fact that he's got Ptolemy with him. You're like, is this going to be an epic battle between Gilemon and the Osirian King? Yes. But I also have to have this plot armor guy next to me so I don't just get wrecked by his psychics. Am I supposed to do anything else but make it so you can fight him? Nah, things are going to go terrible for you.

Yeah. I want to make some references here that I hope you guys get. So as soon as the Osirian King reaches out, all the terminars basically. fall over. They're incapacitated by its psychic powers. Only Gilman and Ptolemy are standing there to fight it. Ptolemy is using all of his psychic might to push back the power around the Osirian king so that Gilliman then charges forward with Ptolemy to fight the king. And I think when they wrote this, the best visual I can give you is in the sanctioned Psyker and Secret Level where he pops out of the thing to defend Titus and the guys against the demon. But I envision this as the show The Tick

with Arthur. It was always stuck behind the tick, which works on two levels. One, I'm accurate and two, the tick's blue. So this works twice. And if you haven't seen the tick, you know what? I would say, I want to say it's good, but I haven't seen it in a very long time. But I remember laughing at it quite a bit. Yeah. And so the battle goes good and then bad. And then Gilliman gets really angry because it's not going well and cuts all the limbs off the Osirian king and pulls its glowing brain out of its skull, throws in the ground, and it's stomps on it with his boot, creating, and killing Ptolemy. Yeah, loves to say, and kills Ptolemy. And Tulli dies, yeah. Yeah, and you go, hey, man, again, was your only point to be here just so you could protect me? You know what?

Yeah, basically, Ptolemy is the South Park Kenny of the episode. The best part is in this book. The book is cool, don't get you wrong, in the fight's cool. But in a very few short pages, Gileman's like, oh man, I'm going to get a defeated. Oh, what can I possibly do to win this fight? And then he just chops off all his limbs and rips his brain out. You're like, well, I guess you could do that.

I mean, that seems great. It seems like an effective system. And as soon as it happens, by the way, this shuts down all the thralls. So, like, the whole rebellion ends right here and there. And all of the Osirians are killed. And so at this point, the important part of this battle, though, is it's after this battle from a plot and lore standpoint. this is when they start wearing the Omega crest on their armor

because Gilliman's viewpoint is this battle that they'd won had proven their superiority and therefore they will wear the Omega which is what we see on every single Ultramarine model to this day. With that, we're going to break because next week we're going to pick it up from there in the lead-ups to the heresy, namely Gilliman and Lorgar not being best of friends. Actually, Gilman, I'm going to call this out. Gilliman is an amazing judge of character because he was friends with none of the guys

go to chaos except for Horace and that was a big left turn and severely disliked all of them actually and he was his best friends were I think Dorn, Sanguineas, the Lion. He had a pretty solid judge of character. Have I mentioned I like Gilliman a lot? No?

You know what the best part is? He didn't like Lorgar, which makes him have at least four points for me. Yeah, oh, him and Laura. He was just like, yeah, that guy sucks. So much. Nope. So next week we're going to take the ultramarines from pre-heresy.

They don't do a lot in the heresy. There's some key battles in the heresy, but obviously they're not there for the end. Cool books. Also with Kanye Kurz. Yeah, there's some of that stuff in there. But then we'll probably, I think the next one we'll get to them a little bit post-heresy. And then we'll see kind of where we go from there. Guys, like it's the issue with doing ultramarines is we had to do them.

I needed this not have this not be 20 casts because we all have to get the Votan and a bunch of other stuff. but we probably will figure out how we go long. But with that, until next week, this has been John Barsati and Bradchester. This guy. See you guys then.