The 40k Lorecast - Episode 63 - "Where are they now" Primarch edition - the Traitors.

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

On today’s cast we dive into a listener requested topic “where are the Primarchs now.” We decided to do the first cast on the traitor Primarchs. We open with a quick bit on Horus, but then move onto a much longer coverage of Konrad Curze. Then a recap of Mortarian from our Typhus casts, followed by a deeper dive into Peturabo & Angron. Then we go through another quick recap of Magnus from our Ahriman cast. Then a deep dive against Brad’s objections into Lorgar, and close with a long bit on Alpharius.PatreonMerchandiseDiscord Link:Our WebsiteRetro RecallOur Sponsors:* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out Pebl: https://hellopebl.com* Check out Pebl: https://hipebl.ai* Check out Shopify: https://shopify.com/loreAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the 40K lore cast. Welcome to 40K lore cast with me, John Barsati and Bradchester. This guy. Today's cast, we're doing a quick listener-requested focus. Actually, this cast, the next one. On the current state of all the primarks. Where are they now? Yeah, where are they now?

That was a terrible show. But anyway, it was just... I think you meant to say an awesome show. It was just depressing. What? I told you, we've talked about flock of seagulls last week. It's depressing. Anyway.

So today we're going to do the traders. Next week, we'll do the loyalists. Some of these are really easy, like Horace and others can be a little bit longer. As always, please like and comment in the cast. Their comments and your likes are really helping boost us. It's broadening our audience to new members, which is cool for us, and we're reaching out a lot further. So all you have to do is just hit the thumb up and write a nice comment if you got some time. And thank you.

Yeah. We also want always promote our Discord here. We've built this Discord over a year ago to be a place people could just kind of interact. ideally it was originally meant for us to interact with you and then we lost control of that thing pretty quickly and everyone started talking to each other and that was even better so now we've got like 3500 members who are in there talking to each other helping each other really building it up and i did you do the shout out i do the shout out we also have some mods who then took over really ran this thing and turned into a much better easier to function in community kevin mazie brian ethin who spells his name wrong

Steve, Ryan, Trevor, and David, you guys are incredible. If it wasn't for them, I probably would have burned this thing down. It's just, I mean, those who don't understand, I mean, there are thousands of interactions at this thing daily. Yeah, it is, I could, I would have just deleted it off the internet, then dealt with it. So they stepped up and took it over, and it's amazing. So please, if you're looking for a place to interact around 40K, come join our Discord. If you go to the About in the show, you'll see a link to it. Also with our Discord, we have a link to our new website and to our Patreon.

The Patreon exists just if you guys like what we're doing and you want to help us improve the quality, pay an audio, keep paying the audio engineer, do all these little things. It goes a long way and that's where we spend it. We've got merchandise. Yeah. We also have a website that's got merchandise on it now. It's finally up and running correctly. You can buy sweatshirts and T-shirts and dice and underwear.

Yeah, there's underwear. Yeah, that was super weird, by the way. There was no way I wasn't going to make it. I know. I saw that. I was like, of course. And of course, it's right here. Yeah, for the record,

it's only because they didn't make a banana hammock. There's zero percent chance I wouldn't have made a 40K Lourcast banana hammock if I could have. I like it. Yeah. Just you would have too. Anyway, lastly in the website, there's a link to Brad's coaching services. 30 years of playing the game, over 10 years of coaching experience.

Brad's really a great source for anyone who's looking to get into the game or just improve their game overall. He does, I mean, you can hear his personality in the cast. Brad enjoys things and he really enjoys people and being helpful to them. So if, you know, if you're looking for help and coaching, Fred is there. Yeah. You can go to our website, click the link. You're going to Discord click the link. Or we can keep messing with this spam filter.

My God, my email is just, I'm getting my tree together. You can't see it. This is the thing I do every time. Old man, Brad 40K at gmail.com. I'm getting the sigh on it because I have gotten even, I don't know if we, they're listening to it. My God, I'm getting destroyed. The amount of bots who just heard that.

Yes. Are just crushing my email. You are getting so many timeshare. I'm trying to weed through. If you haven't heard back from me, send me another one. It literally does get lost. Let's make you a new one. It's not just, it's.

it's so hard right now, dude. I get so nonsense. They're obvious bots, too. It's not even close. I'm like, hello, fellow human. I am going, like, what is happening? I have important information for you about the crypto. It's just crazy.

It'd be funny if they were actually all real people trying to go coaching services. They just didn't have good English. Brad's like, nope. No, click, no. No, that your English isn't strong enough for me to coach. My English isn't strong. I know. That's the point.

All right, well, let's dive into this and just start with an easy one of the prime marks. Horace Lupor Call. Horace is dead. Horace is like super mega dead. No, well, it's a big thing that we say this, though, because when the emperor... It's not a big thing. It's not a big thing. It's a big thing.

Horace is dead. He's the only person that got his soul, body, mind, and spirit cleaved out of existence. And what bearings that have in 41st? I mean, it's a pretty big thing. deal he's i don't know if you heard about him he was the war but right now in the current in the current state of the lore you're not resin him up they cloned him a bunch they tried it didn't go well um abidon was oh yeah abadon does have his claw that's right abydon has his power claw yeah also also if you try to clone what's left of horace abadon will show up at your house yeah and have a

talk with you oh he he's he's not he's not a big fan of it but all i'm saying is if we're doing this as a where are they now he's where horace is now he's actually the most dead yeah Speaking of dead, Conrad Kurz. I refuse to fix this. And we apologize again for those of you who are very, well, I apologize. Brad doesn't. For those of you who are very big fans of Conrad Kerr's, and we called him Conrad Cruz for 12 episodes, 15 episodes. I'm still doing.

Yeah. Anyway, just because we read it wrong and didn't want to deal with it. I've read 30 years of fluff and his novels and still call him that. Yeah. But let's go into Kerr's because actually he does have a bit more. influence on the overall modern. So during the heresy, the night lords ended up kind of forging their own path in support of the rebellion.

Well, they got told to go harass people. And they do that really well. Yeah, and that was, they were sent to go, hey, I need you to go harass the dark angels, because Horace knew that, Horace knew they were never going to beat the dark angels, but Horace knew that the night lords could at least keep the dark angels from interrupting his shit. Yeah, because the night hunter was going to just trash place. Yeah. And the problem, though, is that once the Nighthundred got there, he just decided to party, for lack of a better phrase. I mean...

I don't think the people on those planets thought it was a party. Oh, no, that wasn't... I mean, it was a nightmare for everyone involved. Yeah. But for Curze, he just was like, all right, I'm just going to go ahead and... You know, the 24-hour screaming that you couldn't turn off in your planets and all the other stuff he was doing. But what did happen, though, this is where Curze is a bit more important is that he was the ultimate. antagonist to the lion because the lion is watching it happen is getting furious but curs will not meet him in combat oh god no just keeps running away at the last second the lion's trying to do the whole awful neutral stand and fight

yeah and cruz is like i'm going to go punch the guy i'm running away yeah he's also like i beat up the guy in the cafeteria you're like what you're like we're supposed to fight here he's like yeah instead i i beat up the lunch lady Yeah, because I didn't want to fight you because you'll totally kick my ass. Yeah. Now, it did eventually work out for the lion in that he did capture Conrad. Yeah, and how did that work out? Well, it took a bit. So Conrad was teleported onto the lion's ship.

Yes, but I'm saying- ran around his ship killing all of his friends until he eventually got captured. I mean, to be fair, I'm using that right away. The lion G-man and sanguinness after they had the night hunter? Well, that's later. What I'm saying is. I know, but I'm saying, like, they did a comical James Bond thing of we could kill him, or we could just turn away and make it, he'll never, ever do anything.

He's definitely not going to escape. Well, all right. That is 100% what happened. No, what they did was, no, Sanguineas did it. We'll get there in a bit. But sanguinis did because he was like, all right, this is your fate. Well, there's your fate. I'm going to, I'm going to shoot you in a pod out in the middle of space.

Easily. I'm going to escape so soon. Yeah. Peace up. Just peace up. I got to go help the emperor. Just shut up. So an important thing about Conrad because we haven't covered him yet is he was a pre-cog so he could see the future. But he was kind of shit at it.

He wasn't he was shit at it. He also had he's a pre-cog. By the like I don't like Conrad that much, Bradlings. I love him. And you're going to hear this in our tones. Conrad is a precog that gets mind-shod. shattering visions. He gets shitty visions of the future. Yeah. I like how you made it sound like it was a good thing. He's a bad precog. Well, he's also a crazy person. He's a bad precog. That's what makes you a crazy

person. He's kind of great novels. Yeah. He's saying, oh, I can see the future. You can? Well, not the future future, just kind of the future. Well, then he just kind of extrapolates that and goes, yeah. Yeah. And I'm 100% sure that this is going to happen. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. His vision of the future is a one or two second glimpse of the future, and he's trying to infer everything off of it. So anyway, Conrad, though, he was, so he's a precog. His number one vision he had very early

was his own death at the hands of an assassin and the death of his legion at the hands of space marines, of other space marines. And he was really determined to never have that happen. By attacking... I'll say, by attacking the Imperium and setting up his own death.

and having his troops constantly fight other space marines. What? I don't. I'm not a fan. Wiley coyote, super a genius. Yeah. The issue for him is that at a certain point when we talk about this, in my opinion, Conrad just shifted over from I'm going to make these visions I'm seeing not true to

let's just get this over with. That's kind of what I took it as. Like, I really think he went with originally, because in the early parts, in the early novels, he wanted to fight that, that being his future. Yes, he was trying to change it. Then he felt it was inevitable. And I think,

I think he's just tried to accelerate it near the end. Yes. No, he, well, he completely does it. He makes his own, he made that happen. Yeah, he took his Legion and said, how about we go fight the best Legion that exists that fight?

Well, it's not even that. It's his own death when we get to that. Well, we'll get to that little bit. But yeah, and we'll do a cast on the night loads of the future. it's a very, very popular trilogy, which is, you know, enough to definitely do a cast or two on. But you're obviously hearing my tone and my love of that trilogy. I will be excited about it. I'm really into it.

Plus, the first book is basically alien, so. Oh, yeah. The writing's really good. I just don't find him as much of a protagonist as the book tries to make him out to be. Eh. So anyway, he's crazy. Curse decides that he's just going on. He's basically Drukhari-esque raids.

And remember, the Drucari do not exist in the, in the, uh, imperium at this stage. So this is M31, actually M30. Yeah, there's the Drew Carrey. They're, you know, they're in the webway. They're, they're just doing a little bits of raids here and there. But a lot of at this stage, the Drew Carrey, as we covered last time, we're actually mostly doing crappy stuff to each other.

It wasn't late until later they started actually branching out of the webway because they were terrified. The part of this that actually gets funny to me is Kerr also totally screws over Horace with this process. So Horace sends Curz out there not just to harass the Dark Angels, but to also conquer worlds for him. Well, he's supposed to be conquering basically

supply defos logistics. Yeah. And instead, well, it makes it super hard for the Dark Angels, but also makes it completely not great for Horace because Dark Angels can't lock him down because he has his forces everywhere. Right. But they're not doing

anything. They're just murdering populations. Yeah, I was to say they're not they're supposed to be locking down these supplies and logistics and doing all this thing or even disrupting and all he's doing is like, I'm just going to put all of my people in 20 different systems and just screw with everybody. Yeah. Well, no, we're not screw with all of my people in 20 different systems and murder everyone in those systems. And Horace is like, yeah, but I needed like a gun shipment.

And cursions guys like, oh, yeah, we killed every pilot on the planet. Yeah, we mounted guns on their heads. Yeah. You're like, that's kind of fun. Right? Yeah, it's cool. We made statues with them. Yeah. Check this out. So you're just crazy. He's like, yeah. Yeah, I did. It was bad for the line, though, because none of the shit he's doing makes all of the, I'm sorry, all the things he's doing makes zero sense.

Oh, yeah. So he's having a hard time locking him down. He's like, why would you do any of this? This makes any sense. There's no logistical purpose for this. And Conrad's, and Conrad's, like, yeah. Exactly. Psychopath. So, yeah, effectively, Conrad, the only person who benefits from this. is Conrad, because he's just going more and more crazy by the day. Oh, and he's just murdering people, which is what he wants to do, and his Legion wants to do. So there's that. But over time, his Legion, because it starts to fall apart. I mean, they devolve into war bands.

Yeah. Which is the relevance of where we're going today is he made them become one of the first, actually, legions that's just disparate war bands. They're night lords, but they're war bands. Yeah, there's no. The nightlords are not organized in any way, shape, or form. So eventually, the fun story about this is the emperor is the one who sends the assassins after and just says, get them.

They send 50% of all Caledus assassins into the galaxy with one purpose, and that is to kill Conrad. Curse. You did it. I heard a little bit inside, though. Yeah. So moving forward a little bit, at the end of the heresy, when Horace dies, the night lords are to Brad's point there's an independent body of no they're big now it's not like there's like four guys what one says they're independent I just want to say that there's still

oh there's a ton of yeah there's there's war bands aren't like Ted and his three guys with him these are still large it's just not a legion I'm just stressing because the legions at this time were just so big yeah they were and it would actually that's a good point you made there because what happens is the night lords yes they fought the dark angel and took some losses but they didn't do the siege of terror. No. So they didn't take the big hits there.

And they just decide at this point just to start spreading out throughout the galaxy. Whereas as we'll cover with a lot of the other chaos legions, they fled back to the eye of terror. The night lords were just like, yeah, there's nothing there that's cool.

I'm going to stay over here and just kill things. Yeah, you basically had a legio serial killers. Weird. Yeah. You keep taking people from that prison planet, but whatever. Yeah.

Although, Kerr's actually at this point, did join his legion on some these raids, which is why it's funny that as all the other primarks are rushing into the eye of all the most are rushing into the eye of terror, Kurs is just like she grabs the guys and goes, no, let's go this way and party. And it gets worse in Alcander. Like it's anyone on any, all the fringe worlds of the Imperium are just getting, I mean, Drew Carried is a better way of putting it. Well, we have to go into read the book. The books are, I really like the books. I want to get better. The books are well written. I don't like it. He gets captured effectively twice.

Yeah, and we'll cover that when we do the night, Lord. That's what I'm saying, but we're going to, we're ending him. Yeah, we're ending him. He gets caught, escapes, caught. Well, let's just do it. So real quick, he gets caught by Gilliman, Sanguineus, and the lion. They all, they all, not really torture him. It's just they, they, but what happens is out of the group,

Sanguineus is the one who realizes that Curz actually is a pre-caught. Gilliman and the lion are kind of, they believe it, but they're a little bit weird. He does actually. the Knight Hunter accidentally does good for the Imperium. Because he talks shit about the fact that they're currently going to Terra. Yeah. Which at that point in time, they didn't know. Yeah, fun story.

Basically, Gilliman, the Lion, and Sanguineas didn't know the Emperor was alive at this stage because they actually thought Horace had already won. This is well before the siege of Terra. And because of Kerr's, they realized, they realized, oh, he's alive. And they actually pulled their resources to make it so Sanguineus could get back to Terra. It's the only reason he made it back there and other two didn't. But sanguaneus, before he does this, shoots Cruz, God, Sanguinius shoots curs in like a pod and just says, well, I believe. That's also the second time.

But whatever. Yeah. So what he effectively said was, I believe that what you think is going to come true is going to come true. So there's no point in me killing you right now. Good luck. That assassin will deal with you later. In my mind, he was petting. his white cat is James Bond villain and goes,

we could shoot him in the head right now. Yeah. And instead they went, no one guard him. Which makes for a great story, except for the fact the billions of Imperial citizens who died, because Kerr's rejoined his Legion for a while and went on a murder torture hunt. Yeah.

Anyway, we'll get into that. We do the nightlights. Eventually, Kerr's going completely insane. It's well written. And he's, but he's eventually on his flagship,

completely going insane. when M Shen... With that FG of the Emperor. Yeah. Oh yeah, he's great. It is super horrific of what it's actually made of, but... Yeah, it's not important.

Yes. So he gets smoked by a Caledus assassin. Probably. I was to say, maybe. GW, so GW almost never kills somebody, by the way. So we'll notice this on a lot of the prim marks. But also, when you get the vision or the story and everything, he always, he gives his bad guy monologue to the assassin.

And then he's, Yeah, and then fade to black. Yeah, and then they fade to black. And he got killed by her, maybe. Yeah, in case people don't want to read the book, all we know is that there's a vid log showing M. Shen, who's the name of the assassin, leaping at Curse. Right.

That's all we know. Curz does his whole monologue. Yeah. And she's like, good to hear. It's entirely possible Curse murdered her. Yeah, and then just. And they took her and wore her face for a while. And then's running a coffee shop somewhere.

Yeah, it's possible. He's also insane. So maybe. Yeah. It'd be a weird one from the room back. So, all right, that's Curse. Moving on from Curse, let's shift at someone who's not dead. We've already covered before so we can go quick.

Mortarian. Mortarian, you know, post-horis heresy, runs back to the eye of terror with his legion, and then moped about. He did go full emo. I mean, just like, so I always defend Mortarian because. Why? How do you like Morty more than the Knight Hunter? Well, because I like Morty's intentions.

He's a lot more. The Knight Hunter just wants to torture and murder people. Morty wants to free people from the shackles of government. Yeah, that seems better. Yeah, it's like, he's like, Morty's like, we shouldn't have emperors just telling us what to do at all times, and we should rebel against them. And Nighthundred is like, we should take people's eyeballs out.

And I feel one of those. You're making a good argument. I feel one of those are better than the other one. Fine, and you're going to be like that. But Morty was sad because instead of overthrowing the, you know, the evils of the world, He actually enslaved himself and his entire Legion to a chaos guy forever. Morty, the problem with Mortarian is he had, we talked about this in the day.

He had really good intentions. We had really good intentions. However, every time a fork in the road came where he could have made the right choice, he always made. It was useless at it. So, yeah, literally six thousand years. Mortarian sits in the eye of terror. And in M36, he makes his first kind of foyer back into a forer.

Ray, I'm going to get corrected on that because I get corrected on my speech now. I love when they were giving you shit. The Facebook ones are the best. They're great. They're all accurate. So keep it coming. Also, props to the dude, though, is explaining to us the difference between software operating. Oh, it was incredible, wasn't it?

I was like, I don't, we can't talk anymore because you're so much smarter than I. Genuinely, yeah. I actually have knowledge now. Yeah, this is nothing better. So this is one of what I do like this. This fun story. M36. There is an ecclesiarchy world.

named Sancta with an orc invasion. But the orc invasion was weird. They're slow. The orcs are moving around. They're really slow. They're bloated. And these like sisters of battle get called in. And they just mop up the orcs,

mostly because they're better than space marines, as we learned in the Span sisters cast. I'm not letting it go. I know. It's so funny because this is such a comical roadrunner coyote thing where the giant X is on the ground. Oh, yeah. These flow orcs just start exploding into nerglings.

Yeah. I just like that. The sisters start shooting the orcs, and the orcs start bursting open, and they're full of nerglings. And then Mortarian arrives on the planet. Because they opened up the box that said, not a trap. Yeah. Oh, look, it's not a trap, guys.

The reason, but the reason I'm telling the story is, like, it's not that great of a story, but this is important. He does this in M36. and then he goes back into the warp and doesn't appear again for 5,000 more years. He does mic trap after this. Yeah, he just like, all right. He's like, I put up a W first one in 6,000 years. I'll be back.

I'll be back. And he just disappears. And then he doesn't appear again until the time we talked about the Grey Knights, where he kills the Grey Knight Grandmaster. And then Drago kills him and Carves said Grandmaster's name. Drago doesn't just kill. Drago as does what Drago does. Yeah.

But this time, Mortarian doesn't stay in the warp very long. He appears again. And this is where right around when, you know, his new model came out, obviously. Well, it's also when the Nurgel became the most powerful God for a while. Yeah, but when it's, I mean, he's riding away. And they launched a Mortarian model. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah, it's 100% of that. But the destroy plague's going through. You know what I mean? Exactly. And this is a movie that goes to modern 40K. So Gilliman is resurrected. Next cast, we're doing that one. Mortarian senses it and comes back in, it starts raging his way back into the

materian. This is all happening kind of intertwined. So Morty comes back and I think that Morty might be the most relevant. He can make the argument for Angron, which will do with it. Yeah, Angron's the, no, Morty's the most important. Angron might be relevant because he came out, I mean, we're at time of cast a few months ago. I mean, her Coral Engine and everything else. are the most recent stories.

Yeah, but Angron, the difference is that Angron in the stories always loses. Always. In every boss battle. Yeah, he always lives. Whereas Mortarian actually and the Death Guard do have a lot of success. Well, they make a bigger, I think he, especially in 8th edition. Yeah. The Indeatian story, it was all Nurgel all the time and Morty was coming out.

So he is one of the movers and shakers of modern 40K. So I think as far as Primax go, demon will go chaos. Yeah. Primarks. He is arguably, we'll argue, we'll put it up there. He, I think he's really most influential. Yeah. I mean, in the last, if you're looking at eighth, ninth and tenth edition writing, Morty's very, very prevalent all of a sudden. Especially, Typhus is still a head. I would say if you had typhus in it, I think it's a hundred. Typhus is still the head of the Legion, but people wondering where Morty is right now, Morty took, you know, he did one thing in 11,000 years and he's like 15 things since then. So he's super engaged and super.

involved. And also, again, it was big in the story. So I think it's a big deal for him. I mean, he's all over the galaxy right now spreading plagues. Waging wars. It's easy. And he's in a bunch. And he's a bunch of news stories. Yeah, he's popping up all over the place.

But let's talk about Petarabo. Pederabo joined Horace's rebellion for one reason and one isn't only to stick at the Rogal door. And I understand how he joined Horace so much. Oh, we're doing it. Good chunk on Rogel during the next one.

No. That's great. Rogel was a master of fortification. Petrov was a master of siege. They were not brothers. I'm assuming there were some very childish fights these two had, like behind the emperor's back. Just kicking each other.

Every time everything the emperor turned around. And the thing that's interesting about this is that Petrobo's focus on defeating Rogel kept him loyal to Horus almost all the way to the end, despite the fact that Petarabo was just constantly, betrayed. From the beginning. And also just surrounded by crap he doesn't agree with. Yeah.

We're getting to the Folgram story. But Petroabo joined Horace to defeat the emperor because he did actually feel to a point other than just defeat Rogel Dorn that the Imperium was going the wrong direction. The idea that the emperor would ride with his sons into battle and conquer the galaxy and hand the galaxy over to mortals was something that really bothered Petarabo a lot. And so his viewpoint was that I'm standing with you, Horace,

to show that we are the bastions of humanity and we will save it. Fast forward to the nightbear ships? Yeah. Four of his brothers are demon princes. Yeah. Also, well, he got to see first hand. He watched each of them do this. Yeah. He could see it firsthand, but also

like a bunch of their I mean, there's like demons walking or walking around. Think about the vengeful. I mean, all those kind of things were. Yeah, he's on the vengeful spirit trying to plan out like an attack and to his left. He looks up and there was just a like a nergled demon just dripping, dripping on his battle plan. And it's like at a certain point, I'm not really sure how much on the side of good I'm on. He should have waited. Wait a second, guys. Are we the bad guys? Yeah, exactly. I was like, but, uh, Rogel Doran's over there. So let's go. And he does in the very

end, bail sort of, but it's actually too late. He does, but it's after everything was... Yeah, I mean, that's the problem. He bails just at, basically at the siege of terror. Before the emperor teleported on and fought and killed Horace, Pederabo actually walked. He grabbed his legion, and they left planet. But after this, Pederabo has this kind of moment,

and he realizes that it's too late for him. Yeah, but it's not too late to stick it to Roguel Dora. Exactly. So I'm using literally correctly. he goes and literally builds a trap for Rogel Dorn because that's what he wants to do. Well, it's one big one. I know. He just starts causing a bunch of problems for the Imperium and decides, you know what,

I'm going to make it so Rogel Dorn looks really, really bad. True story. Yeah. And well, and he does this and he's not completely wrong is he really felt that if they didn't fracture and become so chaotic. The forces of chaos didn't become so chaotic. Weirdly, the forces of chaos got too chaotic and couldn't survive. He's a firm believer in that.

We were going to win. It's these guys' fault. Not my fault. Yeah, not my fault. Basically, if you would have followed what I said, we won 50 to nothing. What I like about this story, there was Petarabo a bit as he runs away from Terra towards the eye of terror, which, by the way, it's really hard when you say those back to back.

I don't know why. It's always the tough of me to say it back back. But, anyway, runs away from there and then just plants and finds a planet right in the middle of it and builds this 20 square mile fortress of bunkers, minefields, trenches and all this stuff. And effectively writes on it, pedarabo here. Yeah. And then. And also, Dorn sucks eggs. Yeah.

Yeah. Dorn sees it and just goes, I'm doing this. And this thing also should have said totally not a trap. A hundred percent. With comical signs in space, pointing down, going definitely not a trap. Yeah. We're just hanging out here, not a care in the world. Can't believe you found our secret base. Yeah. It turns out Dorn attacks and the dead center of this 20 square mile complex is just a big open field.

And Dorn gets the big open field. and to stick it to Petarabo and gets instantly attacked by the entirety of the Iron Warriors. I mean, the story is the Imperial Fists are holding up dead Imperial Fists as shields. That's how bad this slaughter got. Yeah, things went not great. Luckily, Gilliman was nearby and said,

that's obviously a trap and showed up to save them. But as... As tough as Dorn is, and I have to give this, even though I think he's the 21st-ranked primar. Yeah. he's still a bad dude in this fighting. Doren's one of the hardest people to kill in the galaxy. He is ruining dudes that are around him.

But anyway, Petarabo after this one, bails out and goes back to the eye of terror, where he actually does become elevated to a demon prince. Which is super weird to me. This is part of the writing that I was never super okay with because he was anti that for like a while. Yeah. And then he just went,

I'm never going to, he basically gave this. in this great speech. And then went, so where do I get in line to get the demon prince? You're like, didn't you just say? The demon prince upgrade? Just two seconds ago. Interesting about him is that we're from a lore standpoint, Petarabo now becomes this side character.

Yeah, he hasn't done shit since then. But he's done, no, yes, he has. He's done a ton of stuff. I'm sorry, he hasn't done shit that moves of the story. Exactly. Petrovo. That's my bad on that. He's also been wildly successful on tiny, tiny, tiny.

For those of you who don't have codexes and devaluated, so the way the codexes are usually written is they'll have, you know, long, multi-paragraph sections talking about something. But then they'll have this other little section, one of my favorite sections, which is just like a timeline of events. And in these timeline events, it'll be like M36, 447, M36.

And it'll be, you know, this, Petarabo leads an incursion into the Octarius sector. and in the Octoria sector, you know, defeats some guard and then retreats back to the eye of terror. And that's just, this is a common thing throughout the codex is. That's what Petarabo ends up becoming here. He's all over the place. Now, he does like the, called the segment obscurus, which is the area right around

the eye of terror. He does a lot of stuff there. But almost everything he's doing is like, you know, techno cults, which are, you know, cultists who like technology. He's doing all these little things. It's to aid. Abadden's crusades. Yeah, I feel that he's just collecting.

He became more of a, I don't even know, like a mad scientist almost. Now, he's not like Fabius Bile or anything, but like, I don't know, he's just kidding. He did this little finger-esque. Yeah, he's around in the lore, but he's not active in the lore. Although recently, we may see him come up because recently with Vashdor, the Arkfane coming into the lore, who I like a lot, by the way, because he's, because, full story and Vastor, well, it's about I'm a full sorry, quick sidon and Vastor. There's a belief that Vastor is what caused the dark age of technology.

He's a very ancient demon. So anyway, him and Petarabo are kind of buddies. And this is where- He is the broker of- Yeah, exactly, of all chaos technology effectively. And so the prime mark of the Legion who loves siege warfare has aligned with a demon who specializes in corrupted machinery. So for now, while Petarabo is more of almost a massive,

myth character in that he exists, you're aware of him. But the thing is you don't have a real understanding of what his forces are, how powerful he is anymore. Yeah, it's, I mean, Iron Warriors still exist, but also, like, there's a chance that he could just get all the Iron Warriors together if he wants. Yeah, this is one of those ones, you know, we, you know, we should probably do this for some of these characters because this is the first one that we've covered who's not dead and doesn't have a model.

And that's what Petrobo was. Petrobo could come into the game suddenly with a model. and the Iron War as being a kind of an independent legion. Yeah, I mean, they haven't, you don't know exactly how they broke. I mean, Iron Warriors show up a lot in other, in the Black Legion a lot. Of course, yeah. But, like, they didn't disband. In any way you're reform.

And they're also not, like, war banded either. They are still very organized under Petarabo. Yeah. It's just they're not active in the world. You just don't know exactly what the deal with that is at that point. So, but one at Brimark, though, who's very active in the lore is Angron, All the time. Really active.

We'll be right back after a quick break. So Angron's got a bit more fun post-heresy. His Legion just splinters into a billion pieces post-heresy. Thank you, Carn. Yeah, that's going to be a fun one. We are going to do World Eaters, mostly, I think, about Carn, because Angron's just, again, another whiny crime mark. I do love, you know, I'm reading this right from the page. So John puts, Angron ascension to Demonhood took his story.

serious tone as mental faculties. He was, but crazy nuts. He had giant nails in his head that... Yeah, and then became a demon prince of corn. Yeah, like, he was already... It wasn't great. Yeah, it wasn't great. He put that to 11. Yeah. At the end of

the Horace heresy at the Eternity Gate was actually where I think sent Angron to a different dimension of anger. So this is one of the stories I like a lot. So they land on Earth. Angron's about to jump down and lead the charge. And Perrabo's says, no, your two nuts.

The Horace says, no, you're two nuts. Petarab was going to do this. Angron starts smashing the capital ship, so they then dump him in the night lord's labyrinth, just to kind of, where at the point, he just is effectively in this impossible to solve labyrinth, getting angrier and angrier and angrier until they eventually just release him. They just drop him onto the planet.

Yeah, he's space falls also. Yeah, falls to Earth. does the superhero landing and just runs as fast as he can at the gate, which gets a lot funnier because he gets to the eternity gate, which is protected by the emperor. Against a demon. Yeah, and he's a demon.

So he can't breach it, but just is screaming at it, hitting it with a sword, then looks up. It makes it so much more fun as this. Yeah, looks up and sanguinius the top of the gate, and it's sanguinius just starts shit-talking him.

Like, next-level shit-talking. Yeah, unfortunately, because it would have been better if they'd just done the Monty Python thing of like, I fart in your general direction. You know, one second. But after enough taunting and Angron gets angry enough to be almost exploding, Sanguinius does jump down and agrees to fight him. Which makes no sense, by the way, but continue.

Yeah. Angron stabs Sanguinius with his sword, and then Sanguinius reaches over the sword and then Sanguinius reaches over the sword and pulls all the butcher nails out of Angron's head. Talking more shit. Well, talking to his face, which then sends Angron. I can do the literally, literally to his face. He is kissing range. Inches away, looking at him while pulling the nails out of his head, which then causes

Angron to, in quote, die. So he goes back into the warp and he misses the rest of the battle. He is not happy, but this is not good. He's not in a good place. Well, also, this was also super not good for Horace because his Legion went banana pants. Oh, every world eater who was currently on Terra just started killing whatever was next to itself.

It didn't matter. Oftentimes other world eaters. So fast forward a little bit, and the world eaters just completely fall apart, and they're not even a legion anymore. They're just war bands who are all fighting to get the most favor for corn. literally 10,000 years of this.

Angaron appears a couple random times in this period of time. Well, there's not, but I'm saying, even this appears, we're going to do the War of Armageddon, but the truth is it wasn't, this one is no different than their random one there, Morty showed up with the orcs. True, because the first War of Armageddon is actually wildly smaller than the next year. Yeah, it just didn't involve orcs. That's why.

So Angron decides while sitting in the, Warp to unify his legion. And the way he does it is, luckily, is a random Space Hulk appears next to the planet. He's on, and he just goes... I love that. In my mind, it goes, Space Hulk pulls up and goes, get in, loser.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I think. Angron jumps in. He puts out a call. And World Eaters, demons, cultists in the Warp, all just jump onto the Space Hulk. And they go orc style. They're just on this Hulk, and it just

disappears from the Imitarium and it appears. I love it. One of my favorite things about it, is the fact that he makes a effectively wake in real space into the immaterial. So he's in front of the vanguard. He's pulling the immaterial with him. So there's bloodthirstys and just wherever he is. And that's, but it's him.

He legitimately has a wake behind him. Exactly. That draws all this. So let's go to the invasion of Armageddon because it actually is kind of cool. Before Angron ever gets there, cults start popping up. And they don't, obviously they're cultists, but these are just these violent cults all over the planet of, no one knows as their corn worshippers,

because they're not supposed to know that the chaos exists at this stage, obviously. They just do, they have a bunch of really violent fight clubs. Yeah, all these. And then, but the second Angron arrives on the planet, all these cults just stop fighting each other, grab their stuff, and walk. Yep. And they walk up to Angron.

They're like, we're with you. And now half the planet, planet plus Angron and all these demons begin fighting. The defenders hold out, though, for a bit. Not well. I mean, most of them die. But they end up falling back and falling back and defending and falling back. And an interesting thing happens.

This is an important. We're telling the story because it actually helps us help tell the story of chaos and incursions into the material. Angron is just wrecking shop. And they are conquering. All of a sudden, he just stops chasing. And it's not because he has, like, ADHD and lost focus. it's because the favor of corn started to waver.

Because they were winning too big, to be honest. That's what it was. So Allison, Angron had to stop pursuing and conquering. They had to gather up all these dead bodies and form, you know, monuments to corn to get corn syrup back in because without this, all the demons would be blinking out of existence and corn's army would disappear. He starts effectively making, if you go into the game, he starts making icons. Yeah.

He's making demonic icons to anchor the demons into the risk. Yeah, because those icons, because you're showing this devotion to corn, what they do is they then feed and the energy source, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So this invasion, this pause allows the gray nights and the space wolves to arrive. And start wrecking shop. Exactly. So, yeah, we can go into this whole fight, but I don't really care. It is pretty awesome. But Angron.

I mean, he goes into, Angron's at the front of a lot of things right now. I would have to say he's number two. I think Morty is probably more involved in the story. But Angron currently, I mean, he is the person that did the most in the right now. Smashing the Coral Engine was huge. So fast forward now. a few thousand more years, the Great Rift has opened. And Angron appears again in the galaxy.

And when he appears, by the way, he slaughters an entire garrison of a billion guardsman and 2,000 warships. So when we say he appears, we don't mean someone cited Bigfoot. Yeah, there was a lot of video evidence. He's right there. Yeah, right there. But this Angron's different. So the Grey Knights go to intervene.

They blow up a planet this time that Angron's on, but he doesn't really. die. He just seems to reappear. Almost instantly. Yeah. It's not until he then starts slaughtering the Grey Knights. It's not until one of the Grey Knights utters his true name that they're able to banish him back into the warp. But Angron actually reemerges shortly thereafter.

He ends up emerging to fight Dante at one point. Luckily, for Dante, the lion has just woken back up. It shows up out of nowhere. Yeah, out of nowhere and cuts Angron's head off. Well, he does crush his head with his sealed first. Yeah, he crushed his head with his shield. and then chops his head off.

Yeah, it was pretty badass, by the way. But Angron returns again, and this is the new thing right now. Angron has had his head cut off by a Primark sword. He's had an orbital bombardment, numerous tanks. Angron just, he will die. You know, he's not invincible, but he reappears. And now every time he reappears, it's exactly eight weeks, eight days, and eight hours after you, after you banishing from the materium, he reappears, fully healed, super, super,

pissed off and with a legion at his back. They do this in the game. Right now, World leaders, he comes back. On three sixes. On three sexes. Yeah. It's awful. Yeah, it can be pretty brutal. Yeah, they can just change a game. Yeah, I killed him. I had him come back four times in North Carolina.

It was not my favorite. Yeah. So Angron in the most current version of the timeline is the most active of the chaos. He's a problem also because he's being kind of carrot over top

his head by Abadon. Like, you can't tell him what to do, but you can encourage him what to do. And we'll go into a lot of those stories as we talk about this. Because Angron is in the forefront of some really big things that happen in the current timeline.

He's in all the big battles, period. Yeah, he's the new one right now. The next, let's jump into Magnus. So much like Mortarian, we spent a good amount of time on Magnus already in the Aramon costs. So this one of the be a little bit quicker. After breaking the walls

of the Emperor's Webway Project and dooming mankind, uh, Magnus was not done being wrong constantly. Look, man, he was just trying to send an email. Yeah, sure. Anyway, so Lehman Russ breaks Magnus's back over his knee. When he does this,

he gives himself his legion over to Zinche. At that moment, the thing is Magnus died then. His soul was shattered into charge. I don't even know if he'd say he died. He died. Well, he gets shattered. Well, I say he died because he turned into something else. I'll give you that.

I'll give you that. I'll give you 100%. All of a sudden, his soul becomes these shards all over the place. And we've discussed these shards before. But each of these shards is a version of Magnus. So when we talk about a shard, it's not like, oh, I found some crystal. Well, you actually find this magnus just hanging out. I do like this, because the emperor had the same thing happen to him.

We'll talk about that much later. We talked a little bit about it, but this, again, is what happens. This is what happens when a powerful being in the warp dies. So the hard part about these shards is that the biggest one, obviously, went with the thousand suns into the immaterial. But over a time, it actually started to deteriorate, and Magnus began to fall apart within the warp. So Aramon actually went out to get the other shards.

Now, he came back with four of them. one of them we discussed, it's actually, it was inside the original Grandmaster Grey Knight. It's also, it's one of Ironands, one of my favorite characters, but we're not talking about him

because these are pretty epic stories. He went on some Herculean trials. Yeah. And in doing so, though, he did save Magnus. Magnus regained almost all of his power and was able to kind of rejoin the force of chaos in earnest.

And because he was actually, you know, on the verge of helping them breach. He does the castle before Vulcan kicked the crap out of him. badly. Yeah. After the failure of the heresy,

Magnus, just like Mortarian, went on a pouting fit. Although I do think Magnus had more reasons to pout because... Well, Aeron went, so promise you're not going to be mad. Yeah. But... I found this really cool recipe.

And I made it, and it turned 95% of our Legion into dust zombies. He did get rid of the flesh curse. Yeah, I did stop the flesh curse, though. 100%. Um, Magnus wasn't happy. That being said, like Petarabo, Magnus just disappears.

Yeah, they just make, he's in his tower for a long time. Like all, like, it is 10,000 years. And it's not until he decides out of nowhere to go burn Fenris. Which is funny in the stories because he just kind of popped up out. At a nowhere. Yeah, this is, this was not, there was no lead up to this moment. He just all of a sudden went. I'm just going to go ahead and remove Fenris.

So him and Aramana line and they decide. Which is a big deal because he's been persona non grata. Aramon's like, hey, would you like to show up to the tower? I definitely will not kill you if you show up here. Well, what I do like is that they then decide to go after one of my favorite, every time GW does this like intellectual property game, it's called Midgardia. Yeah. Not midguard.

Midgardia. What? Yeah. Hey, patent attorney. What if I add a letter to the end of, Something. Does that then become mine? I don't know, maybe. Let's find out. Let's roll the dice, maybe. They invade, and we'll cover this next. You probably more on the Thousand's cast, because we already covered it a little bit in the Aramun cast. We'll cover this more on the Space Wolf's cast. We did it already in the Aramon casts, but we'll do a recycle then. Long story short, they sacrifice this planet of McGardia by killing everyone and everything there. Prospero reemerges. Well, the copy of.

Well, because what Prospero went, became the planet of sorcerers when it went into the material. And now it came back out of the materium. So it went back to being called Prosperor. And it's also like kind of half in. You're like, it's a copy possibly. Yeah. And the next piece for Magnus is when Gilliman comes back to life.

Which is funny because I'm going to throw this out there for everybody. In the Ratties, it feels like everybody got an instant alert. Yeah, when Gilliman came back, every single chaos, God. Interestingly, though, not when the lion did. Yeah. And I think it's because the lion was never dead. He was just in that pocket dimension, whereas Gilliman was effectively dead and then was brought back to life. It's just like as soon as the G-man came out, all of the gods went.

We got to go do something about this. We're going to cover G-Man the next one. I do think part of it also is the armor is because Gillman was now, especially for Nergel. Gillen was now ultra-resistant to all the chaos powers. That's true. And they may have spread like, yeah, he's at the armor of the emperor. The armor of the emperor is a hard no. That thing has to go away.

So anyway, Magnus detects that Gilliman is alive and decides no. That's actually kind of a cool thing. Magnus realizes that Gilliman is using the webway to travel, you know, from McCraig all the way back to Terra. Magnus can't travel in the webway directly, but neither should Gilliman. So Magnus realizes that if he just kind of follows Gilman's wake within the Webway, the Webway won't kill him and he can do it.

So he begins following in there. His actual plan was to follow Gilliman back to Terra, pop out and kill the emperor. Yeah, except for... Gilliman's not an idiot. Hold on. Watch this, though. Let me... One plus one, carry the one.

Oh, yeah, Magnus is won zero times. Yeah, Magnus never wins at anything. Gilliman totally knew he was being followed. because it's still Magnus following him, a giant red, one-eyed monster with horns and wings. Turns out it stands out. He's also surrounded in this journey by Eldar,

including Harlequins, so who are the masters of the Webway. So anyway, you're like, man, what is your main power? I'm the Lord of Psychics, and he went, oh, cool, well, there's like a bunch of sisters of silence here. Yeah, exactly. It didn't go well when they landed.

So Gileman takes a left turn, and instead of landing on Terra lands on Luna, Magnus attacks and is just about to kill Gilliman when, as we covered in the prior episode, all the sisters of silence show up and just being around Magnus suck his soul out of it, like through his eyes. Yeah, it's not great. Yeah. So he has to run away. Moving into the most recent, though, Magnus seems, Magnus now has a new goal. And it's a really, really stupid one. This is he, I for sure, he's got a volcanic layer to do this. This is the dumbest thing.

Magnus. Again, it's volcano layer. This is some Dr. Evil shit. This is just so dumb. Magnus has decided that he's going to turn humanity into a psychic race. And what he's done is on his, on Prospero, he's built his own Astronomicon. and it appears every psycher in the galaxy is aware of it and they're drawn to it his goal is to bring as all the psychers of the galaxy to prospero and then from there use this psychic awakening to convert all of humanity he has no defensive plan for doing this he basically makes a new his own little new astrmonicon and then is surprised when well yeah people show up let's dive it it's quite funny he builds a giant beacon for all psychers anywhere in the galaxy to come join him on a planet that already

got wrecked once by a space marine invasion and the gray knights are just like so he's over there right yeah like all right and they grabbed dark candles in the way because they're like look we can't bring the space wolves because last time they were here they went a little overboard so like like those dudes are weird yeah they're just like actually it's actually you know it's not that it's the great nights went look we want to bring the space wolves but they don't like us. Like, really. That's actually more likely what it was.

They're like, we need to have this battle end and not just get thrown. Is Logan still there? Yeah. Let's, uh. We're good. Like, we're good. Hey, Dark Angels, you guys, you come with us for a minute. And so they go and as always, Magnus loses.

Because he set up absolutely no defense. Yeah. It's insanity that he put up a giant galaxy wide visible beacon and then was just like, what? You guys are here? Like, that's weird. Who knew? Can't believe it.

I believe. And he's supposed to be, like, one of the smart. All right. But let's go from him to another primary who I don't like, Fulgram. You know who doesn't lose all the time, Fulcrum. He loses all the time. He's got multiple victories. I don't know.

Let's say like you're, I don't know, Bobby G. And you weren't around for a while. Live now. We'll talk about another dude without. One of them has a model. We'll talk about it. Well, he does. 30K.

I know. It's also awesome. Maybe the best model in the game. Yeah. All right. Let's let the quick recap. During the heresy, Fulgram had a theme and that was being controlled and possessed by different things over and over and over again.

His theme was trying to be the best of everything. I love that you're just like, screw this. Really? Okay. How many times did Fulgram get possessed or controlled? You're not wrong. He was like, it's just constant with him. Like, I want to be on the math.

of perfection. My hair is magnificent. I'm the greatest. This. Oh, a demon's got control of me again. All right. I beat that demon. Oh, it happened again. He did fail a lot of saves. Yeah, he's just constant. Like, all I do is roll a two on a D20. And he's still everything. With a reroll. It's like, nah. Nope. I rolled a one. So over and over again, he is just, I just a child. That's why I don't like him. He's all impulse and he never takes any blame for anything. He's really pretty. Fine. Only he used to me. He's a giant serpent monster. The big thing, and we covered this back in

episode seven, but the big change for Fulgrim was actually with Petterabo. This is when he just screws Petterabo over royally. He tells Petterabo that they need to go on a buddy quest together to go pick up this super special sword. And Petirabo goes cool. And while they're going there, he says to him, hey, can you put this weird cloak on? And Petrobo again goes, yeah, sure thing, buddy.

Apparently, I'm... What could possibly happen? Apparently, I'm a complete moron. Anyway, the cloak actually was sapping his energy. We did this for a while, episode 7, with a lot of energy. So go back and listen to that if you want. But in the end, it was a trap. But luckily, some other loyalist Marines show up and they undermine the trap.

Long story short, Petrobo goes from, I'm about to die to, I got all my strength back and takes a look at Fulgram and goes, nah, and hits him with a hammer so hard that Fulgram's body splits in half. Yeah, but it splits in half in a cool, please someone do CGI of this. This is the cool part. This is the cool part. Fulgram splits in half and then rises back up as a giant purple snake. Yep, that's what I said, with forearms and wings.

And wings, cool wings too. There is a model for this. It's a 30K model. It's one of the best things you'll ever see. It is, I mean, I will not own it because I'm not going to paint that. Also, I'm not sure how you're going to travel with it because those wings are gigantic. Well, it also isn't playable. Right now.

In 30K. Look it. We're going to get Fulgram this year. Sorry, not this year. 2025. Yeah. Mark it down. Fine.

We'll get to that at the end of this. There's a good likelihood Fulgram's coming back. Yes. We just saw it this week, actually. Anyway, as a. Siege of Terra begins. Folgram and his Legion at first, they're super into it, and then just get bored. Because you know what?

Fighting the loyalists was hard. They had like guns and they'd hit you. You know, it's not hard? Going to the mall. Yeah. I mean, this is the thing. Like, I laugh about this a lot. Like, they just decided to go and just jack up, not just terror, by the way, everywhere.

They just left. Yeah, they just grabbed as many slaves as they possibly can from the most undefended area. Anyplace that had little or no resistance. Well, yeah, they went to everywhere that on Earth. They went to everywhere that wasn't the Imperial Palace. And then they just bugied out a system and just stopped off at random, like, agri-world or whatever. Just kept grabbing more people. Yeah.

Where this actually matters a lot from a lore standpoint is that Folgram ends up building this massive base back in the eye of terror because he's got all of these slaves, trillions of them. and his forces bailed on the siege of terror. Well, the emperor's children is still legit. It's still legit, but right at the end of the heresy, they were the most powerful force in the entire immaterial. What ends up happening, though, is because Fulgram's useless at everything, he starts torturing all the, and killing all these captains, starts running out of them.

So then he begins what's called the Legion War, which is when all the legions started, fighting each other in the eye of terror. And he started it because he had the largest legion and he could go steal all their people. Yep. Also, it made no sense because he could have just left the eye of terror and grabbed people that weren't all their cast space brains. So let's get to the two biggest moments of Fulgram.

Actually, one hasn't happened yet, but we'll start with this one. Fulgram and his legion keep popping into the materium and grabbing people, large sections of people. And Gilliman is just like, no. Like, nope, not having this. G-Man kind of did a whole detective thing on this to figure out where he was going to go. Yeah, and tracks him down. And eventually, Gilliman and the Ultramarines corner Fulgram and the Emperor's children.

And they're going to kill them except for one little problem. Gilliman is a primark. Yeah. Fulgram's... A demon primark. Also, he didn't know that he was going to be facing a demon primar. Yeah. Gimelan doesn't know what Fulgram looks like.

And now this massive demon. He was a demon snake with forearms. He's huge. Yeah. And he slits Gilman's throat with a poison blade. No, no, no, just through his throat. Slit it with a poison. Yeah.

And we know what poison does to Space Marines. I knew that was coming. I walked right into it. I mean, like, literally, like right into it. I don't know why. As a reward for this, though, and this is around M32, I think 31-32, Folgram is, as a right, Slanesh is so happy with Fulgram, that he actually, that she builds Fulgroom his own little play center within the...

Yeah. Dimension or something. And where Fulgram sits there and he can do whatever he wants with it. And he does things like it conjures up old battles that he used to be in to wage them again. All, every glory of his life, he's been sitting in this area, just reliving it. Well, he's basically sitting on the hollow deck. Just making shit up. What happens, so interesting, though, is that when Gilliman, you know,

gets resurrected. Folgram doesn't appear directly. It's that he possesses one of the members of the council of McCraig and just starts shit-talking him and telling him that, you know, I'm going to hunt you down. And whenever the second you make a mistake, I'm going to capitalize on that mistake. And it's going to be the downfall of you and the Imperium. Yeah. But also, as always with a lot of the chaos forces, you know what he could have done?

not just told him his plan and go, so Gilliman went, oh, thanks for telling me that it would have been super hard to weed this out. But now that you've told me exactly what you're going to do. Then I guess I'm good now. Yeah, I'm probably not going to fall into that. Now, let's do a quick story that no one probably saw coming, is that unless you've read Trazen the Infinite. Also, good book.

Really good book. So this is actually one of the funnier stories. We've covered before Fabius Bile was the main of pocket the carry. for the Emperor's Children, which is Fulgram's Legion. Fabius is at one point try to clone all the primarks, and Abadon felt differently about that. He comes back years later to try it again, and this time he only goes after Fulgram.

And it's part of this, because actually Fabius doesn't like what Fulgram is. It's kind of, I mean, Fulgum is terrifying. And he actually successfully reclones Fulgram. in his original form, but with all the genetic memories of New Fulgram. And this part in the book is actually pretty cool. Weirdly without chaos corruption.

Yeah, no chaos corruption. But that would actually make sense because the corruption is in the soul. So he's just doing the genes, the genes had memories and whatever. Fulgroom and Fabius sit around and just talk for a while. And they're talking and they're talking. And as New Fulgram comes a terms with what's happened, he makes a vow that he's going to go and undo the legacy of his clone brother and effectively save the Imperium, to which Fabius is in his head going, yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

But also, you're the exact same person as that one. You're totally going to fall deem with it, and we're going to have two of you. So he sets a trap and gives clone fulgroom two trays in the infinite to add to his collection. So technically, as of right now, there are two fulgums. Also, they do nothing with that. Like, he basically goes, funny story. Thanks for the Fulgroom, deuses.

Also, I'm really wondering what they're going to do with Fulgram because I think that he might be and people can poo on this or love it or whatnot. He might be the most powerful demon primar. Like physically, like. Oh, very much so. I mean, it'll be, so for those who who you don't know, Brad and I'm playing it for it.

The GW's been teasing a bunch of emperous children things and like literally this week, not that it matters when you guys are going to hear this because it's going to be months. So you listen to this a month to years ago. But they just teased the shoulder puldrons. So now we know the Empress Children Legion is coming out next year. So the expectation is that we'll get a Folgram model, which would be super cool. It's just in his

lore, he's lightning fast. He always wasn't really good dualist. I mean, oh yeah, he'll have, I mean, it'll be hard having seen Angron stats, how you do fulgram stats. Yeah, like what, plus he's also really just good at smoking groups of things. So I'm wondering what those are. So is Angron. I know. Yeah. That's, that's something. It's going to be a tough one for GW to write. That's all. Their problem. All right. But let's get to the Brad's favorite part of the cast.

Oh, shit. Lorgar. I always say that Rugal Doran's my least favorite. But then you remember that then you remember that that Lorgar exists. I don't even count him. He sucks so much. Yeah. So let's do Lorgar real quick.

We'll be right back after a quick break. Not real quick. So Lorgar is the largest catalyst for the whole. He is the catalyst for the horse heresy. The warrior lodges, which are still a bad idea, Brad. Whatever. The serpent lodge. I love that we had this kind of this argument before we had the cast, but about modern things.

Yeah. And then you reference it again on me. Still wrong on this one. He was the one who convinced everyone to take Horace the Serpent Lodge. He then, he was also before the creating cults to the emperor. In fact, the entire imperial truth, or sorry, the imperial creed, has originally, has originally with Lorgar. He wrote the book. Yeah, I know. I know. Let's say Lorgar is everything.

Truth, he wrote the book. Well, he wrote a book and then they plagiarized the F out of it to, you know. I'm just saying, when you say someone wrote the book, Lurg is like I did write the book. That's fair. Anyway, as a heresy expands, Lorgard starts to struggle with Horace. He starts to get jealous about the fact that all the chaos gods like Horace more, even though he's the one doing all the stuff for the chaos. Yes, because Lorgar is born to be middle management. So Lorgar has this great plan of using a demon to control Fulgrim, which is a great plan.

It happens easily, constantly. He must have, like, just disadvantage versus. It's the intelligence of two. So you're possessed again? Whatever. Whatever. Someone go get the bucket. Should we ask who he's possessed by?

It's not even interesting anymore. The story's getting boring. But the part that's funny is that Fulgram, while possessed, the person possessing him because it's not Lorgar, betrays Lorgar. And Lourgar finds himself standing 1 v1 against Horace. That doesn't go super great. And Horace just puts a butt weapon down and kicks Lorgar out of it. of the heresy, effectively. And this is actually where, I feel, was, he would have rather, he doesn't want to die,

but also Horace thinks so little of Lorgar, that he doesn't even think this is a problem. And he's kind of right. Well, he's right, because the thing is the problem is, Erebus and Leac don't leave. Right. So Horace still has, yeah, he still gets all the word bearers. It's just, it's minus Lorgar and a small group. Lorgar, though, obviously ends up pretty quickly back in the warp.

And over time, the rest of the word bears also rejoined the warp. And once back there, they all still agreed with Lorgar. Even Erebus does. They weren't backstabbing each other. Just Erebus at the end was like, I don't want to get my ass kicked by Horace, so I'm going to hang out with him. And these are, I have to give them this. They are the most pure devotees of the chaos gods. And from a lore standpoint, I think they're the most important.

as far as GW setting the stage of what is life's like in the Imperium, I think they're the most important chaos cult, and I'll explain why in a minute. It's because I just use the word chaos cult. Lorgar sucks at combat, but the chaos gods loved him, and they eventually make him a demon prince, a very, very, very powerful demon prince, not at fighting. So, but what Lord Gar is good is spreading chaos,

and that's why he's so important. If you're the Inquisition, a word bearer cultist incursion is the worst thing. Oh, they've got also such a knack for getting these grassroots operations and instantly getting demons to them. Yeah. And that's what makes the word bearers so great. Because because they're the most powerful in this world, in this kind of realm, they speak more clearly to psychers than any other group. You know, whereas Nergel is waiting for you to suffer. Corrin's waiting for combat.

You know, Zinche is waiting for a desire for things. Lorgar is just creating those things. Well, he's fantastic and subversive because he convinces you that, hey, man, you having a problem with your psychics, I can help by blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, man, did I get a trick? He's got a full cult. Yeah. Right.

And so my opinion is that the word bearers are actually creating. the vast majority of the cults all across the Imperium, which sucks for the Imperium. Well, they're also just not willing to fight, which is weird for a Space Marine Legion. You know what I mean? Yeah, it is because they're more like they're, they are word bearers.

That's where they're doing. They're trying to spread the word of chaos throughout the Imperium. The greater concern of the Materium, though, is a change recently in Lorgar. So while in the eye of terror, Lorgar went on a multi-millia meditation. No one knows about what or why. He went on a spirit journey.

Yeah, but now, but recently he woke up. And ever since he woke up, he's been seen in the Materium. And he hasn't been seen in the material. All that we were talking about him like raising cults, he was doing all that from the immaterial. Lorgar hasn't been seen in the materium since before the end of the heresy. Yeah, that's 30. Yeah. So over 11,000 years, there are reports of him now leading these horrifically large, you know, word bear legions preaching and spreading the word of chaos.

One of my favorite word bear stories, and this tells you how many, just to give an example of how influential and widespread, the word bears were assaulting a giant fortress and couldn't get through it. They couldn't bring the walls down. So they had a million cultists die, and they made a round. ramp out of dead bodies and just went up and over it. Yep. That's the word bears. So right now, I would laugh hysterically, by the way, because we're just talking about them having a fulgram model. If there was no fulgram model, there was a Lorgar model. Yeah.

My God, no. Don't you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby. Good news, everybody. We're getting a new demon prints. Is it fulgram? No. Is it? Boo.

Is it Pederabo? Also, no, it's not Lorgar, is it? Oh, yeah, it's totally Lorgar. It's just a GI Joe. God. I hate him. He sucks so much. All right.

That was mean making Brad talk about Lorgar. So let's let Brad talk about something he actually likes. Affarius and Omega. Yeah. So we're going to do a deep dive into Alpha Legion, obviously, because they are complicated as hell. Also, tons of contrasting. Yeah. We're going to, we're about to give you the lore.

This is, what I'm giving you now is all canon, but there's also a lot of canon that says all the canon about to tell you is not true. Yeah. It's really funny. They've retcon the shit out of this a lot. Let's do it in a simple fashion. The Alpha Legion doesn't have one prime mark.

They have two primarks, identical twins, Alpharius, and Omagon. I do hate this for a very simple reason. These are three meter tall beings who weigh two tons, but apparently they're very, very sneaky. I mean, Alferius was just on Terra going, hello, fellow guys. There's also, there's a belief that they may have both been on

like Horace's flagship at the same time or one guy just peeking from behind a curtain. Like, it's just stupid. Never. Always the Steve Buscemi beam. Yeah. Just, hello, fellow Marine. Alferius, that guy looks just like you. No, he doesn't.

Oh. That is a regular space marine. He's twice the size of everyone, other space marine. I said, is your name Tim? I believe it's Tim. Everyone say hi to Tim. Definitely not my brother. Tim. Absolutely no chance. Like I said, it's really cool and you read it quickly and then you think about it for a little bit. It's like, this makes no sense. How do you have a sneaky prime arc? But going forward, we'll just use the term Alfarious to make life easier, joins Horace. But interestingly, not for the chaos gods. It's because they felt the emperor

was leading humanity down the wrong path, and they wanted a course correction for the Imperium, and thought Horace was the way to do that. And then there's also the non-canon, which says, because we've got stories, one of the two brothers was actually trying

to sabotage Horace for instance. There we go. Well, and there's a lot of this. It gets weird because they kind of are thought they're, well, maybe they're the good guys. Yeah, they murder a lot of people. Oh, a lot, because they're also super sneaky, and they spring out and kill a bunch of people. Yeah, and it's all because they did take a meeting with the cabal, more on them in an aforementioned cast.

So the Alpha Legion gets sent out by Horace, and they're sent out to go deal with the space wolves and the dark angels. It's just stupid. Like, they do a surprise attack on the space wolves. They do a surprise attack on the dark angels. They're all over. They're all over the guys causing nightmares. And again, they, this is where again you go back to, maybe they, maybe one of them was the good guy because they F up all of these things and give them advance notice for

the Imperium that this is coming. Yeah. It's their fault. Yeah. I just, this is, I don't know, I don't hate it. I just find this high. The timeline when you're reading Alpha Legion stuff is so hard. Yes, because some of it doesn't make sense in where the time is.

Yeah, the books are written. But anyway, we'll go to a couple of key parts of this. As we're getting near the end of the Horace heresy, the Alpha Legion are part of Horace's plan for invading the soul system. So Pluto, which is still not a planet in the 31st millennia, is armed to the teeth with fortresses and guns. and the Alpha Legion was sent there to kind of go soften it up. So what they did, this is what Alpha Legion does,

they just infiltrated the Imperial Fists. They just went in there, you know, wore their faces effectively and wandered around. All at once, this is before the invasion of Seoul, by the way. All at once. Yeah, all these cells throughout the, the Soul system activate. And ships are blowing up. Even on Terra, there's just, there's entire factories are going. Actually, I think there was a ship that,

fell out of orbit at one point, and there's all this massive confusion. But the real goal was Pluto, because they were actually wanting to disable a bunch of the weapon systems on Pluto to make it easier for them to come in. I mean, Pluto is a rock surrounded by satellite destruction. Yes. And Alferius actually leads this one head on going into Pluto. The problem is, as much as Brad does not like Rogel Doern, he will admit two things of Rollo, one, he's very strategically intelligent. He's also badass. He can fight. I would put top,

Rogodon in the top two or three of all the Primarkers. If you're talking about just somebody that's going to punch you, yeah. Hand-to-hand, who's better of non-demon, not non-possessed,

who's better than Rogel Doorn in hand-to-hand combat? Maybe the lion. Yeah. I mean, Saucan doesn't list anymore. He doesn't die. But yeah.

The problem with the Vulcan is it just depends in which Vulcan you get, which story you get. That's true, yeah. That's how Vokalcon is a wild, how much does the plot need me to be tough. Yeah, that's fair. So in this, in this situation, yeah, Alferius is not in a

good situation here. He does tell Dorn, by the way, that I'm not doing this stuff to benefit Horace. I'm doing it to benefit the galaxy at large. Well, we're going to cover this when we do the Alpha Legion, but like, their whole big thing is that this needs to happen so we don't lose to chaos. Yeah. And Rogaldorne hears those words and punches him right in the face. Yeah, he does not even let that sink in. He's like, good to hear. And I want to explain to you, there are two primarks fighting. Here's how the fight goes down.

Rogel beats Alfarious silly, cuts both of his hands off. He runs him through. Then picks up the spear that those hands were holding, jams it through Alfarious, and then takes his own sort of and cuts his head off. Alfarious has died. He's going to need some back team for that. Yeah. Like, oh, every time, every time Rogelorn fights, he just pummels whoever he's fighting. Rogel's kind of cool, although he gets whiny later on.

Yes. Throughout the rest of the Horace heresy, Alpha Legion are next to Horace, but near the end, as they're getting into the siege of Terra, Alpha Legion noticeably significantly absent from it. Heresy ends, and Alpha Legion just might be. move to the right side of the galaxy at the end of the heresy. They don't go back into the eye of terror. They go out into the right side of the galaxy, the east. I'm just going to keep calling it the right side. I was just about to say, I'm waiting for it. You mean the east side? That's the right side. There's no east side. There's no magnet. Show me magnetic north, and we can do this. It's a lazy thing to call it the east. Well, not lazy. It's a, I get. It's a naval thing. I've

been corrected enough times that, you know, it's a naval thing. Everything goes northeast, southwest, but I'm still going right side. So as they're doing, the Alpha Legion are out on the right side of the galaxy, kind of doing no one knows what. They're causing problems, don't get me wrong, but there's no rhyme or reason behind it. But they then eventually get a little bit close

to the Ultramarine territory. And Alfa Leyen, everyone seems to dislike the Ultramarines. You'll notice this a lot in the stories. And I think this is more just because the Ultramar Marines wear plot armor, but the Alpha Legion do get a little bit too close to Ultramarine territory. And then they get their asses kicked by the ultimate. Yeah. And then the Gilliman just goes, nah.

Gilliman and the Legion surround the Alpha Legion and pursue them and actually do successfully again kill the Primark. This time Alfarious is dead. However, there's a key piece of this. In the lore, every time a Primark dies, it has an incredible effect in the Legion. Psychically wrecked. Yeah, wrecks them. This is where the red thirst and the Blood Angels comes from Sanguinea. dying. The Alpha Legion

were completely unfaced. In fact, like the entire plan of Gilliman's attack here was like, I'm going to hit them, I'm going to kill Alfarious and when Alfarious has said, the whole Legion will collapse. The entire Legion was like, wait, who's dead? Yeah, whatever. And in fact, they actually pushed the

ultramarines back because they were not ready for this level of counterattack. And one of the biggest things on this is in the game, HQ, your warlord could shift to each of your to each of your characters, which was a great thing because effectively they're saying with the Alpha Marine Alpha Legion, you're not sure who's actually in charge, who's going on because they do the whole I am Spartacus with everybody. But what I love in the lore is, because in the lore, they've kind of leaned into this a little bit, where now the Imperium is kind of wondering, are these guys dead? So they decide the Lords of Terra, Brad's buddies.

boo. By the way, you see the Discord, I referred to you as being too short to be a Lord of Terra. I did not. Someone said we should make a T-shirt of Brad is a Lord of Terror and he said he's too short.

He has to be a low Lord of Terror. He couldn't be a high Lord of Terra. He'd have to be a... Just had me standing in a box. The Apple cart, the Apple Crate. What's going on, guys? Anyway, the Lords of Terror

authorized six Vindicare's to go hunt down and kill Alfarious if he existed. Five years later, one of the Lords of Terra opened his refrigerator, because apparently they have those, and found all six of the heads of those Vindicare assassins in the freezer. And this is that Brad was saying, this is because this is how the Alph Legion have always worked. Every time you kill one of the leaders, instantly another one pops up and steps in. I think, my opinion, I think they're perpetuals. I think Alphareis and Omega, an omogon, or an omegan, whatever the name is, are either they're not two that's actually one, but they're perpetual, or they're just two perpetuals.

I think they send clones and are some okrums. Oh, it's just the reason why, who's cloning them and how many clones do they have? I'm just, they show up at too many places across the galaxy at the same time. That's true. So maybe there are multiple. I just, it's a weird thing where I think they've got some goofy powers that haven't been fleshed out. so much in official writing so far. Namely, I do believe they're perpetuals, though.

They could be, I mean, they've gotten wrecked. Both of them, you know. They're both, they both got ultra killed, and there's an idea of maybe they've died numerous times, because we don't know what Alpha Legion's up to most of the time. No, at all. Yeah, and I could see them being these, like, these, you know, perpetuals who were just constantly coming back, coming back, coming back.

And that's one also would explain why in the lore, the Alpha Legion tends to operate in the fringes of the lore. We don't really know what the Alpha Legion's up to, at all. But when they do show up, they show up in mass. They're in giant force. So it's quite possible. These two are pulling the strings behind it. Behind it. They could be just been there and the whole time kind of thing. This is one of the ones. I'm actually semi, I'd love to have them flesh this out a little bit. Yeah. Oh, me too. Alpha Legion's awesome as hell. So, but anyway, that's it. That's the end of the Trader Primarks.

Next week, we're going to get into the loyalist ones, which means Rogel Dorn. He goes, because there is, we're a new Rogel Dorn party time because no one, parties like Rogel Doran because Rogel Doorn does not party. You are right. He is the end of fun. Exactly. There's fun police and then there's Rogel Doorn. Rogel Doorn oversees the fun point.

Yes. And he thinks they're having too much fun. Exactly. So with that, this has been John Barcati and Bradchester. This guy. See you guys next week.