The 40k Lorecast - Episode 88 - Imperial Fists pt 2 - post Heresy Fists, Crimson fists, and Sigismund

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

On today’s cast we conclude our coverage of the imperial fists, sort of. We open with the conclusion of the Siege of Terra and how it wrecks Dorn. From there we go into the 2nd founding of the Imperial fists (Dorn was not about it), and dorns death (maybe). After that we spend time talking about the legacy of the Imperial Fists post Dorn and how they have preserved his legacy. From there we go into the Crimson Fists, their founding and their role as the Space Marine killers for the Lords of Terra and the inquisition. We then jump into the drama surrounding the sacking of their home world. We then close with the legend that is Sigismund, setting up our next cast on the Black Templar.PatreonMerchandiseDiscord Link:Our WebsiteRetro RecallOur Sponsors:* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out Pebl: https://hellopebl.com* Check out Pebl: https://hipebl.ai* Check out Shopify: https://shopify.com/loreAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the 40K lore cast. Welcome to the 40K lore cast with John Barsati and Bradchester. This guy. On today's cast, we're continuing our coverage of the Imperial Fists, starting with them at the end of the Horace heresy, then moving through the second founding and a little bit about the crimson fists. And we're going to close out with the originator of the Black Templar Sigismund. Because, spoiler, guys, the next cast is going to be Black Templar. There we go.

We will of note, we're going to skip the Soul Drinkers for now. I'm going to add them into, we're going to make a cast in the future at some point, probably this year, about some of the smaller but really lore critical chapters, like Minatars, Carcaradons. Yeah, because they're really cool, but they're not like, we don't have, we have novels. But there's like cool things like the Raptors, the Carcaridons, Minotars. There's a bunch of really cool that have really cool characters with them. I mean, we're doing, we're talking about the Crimson Fist today, so we get Pedro Cantor. But like there's a lot of characters that have had a lot of flavor in the game. for a long time.

But even the soul drinkers where it's like, are they a traitor legion, or are they not a traitor legion? Because it's like, there's a lot of these stories are really cool. And we're going to get to them pretty soon. Because a lot of them are the Imperium. Is the Imperium the bad guy?

And then when you push back on the corrupt Imperium, yes, you're pushing back on the Imperium, but does that make you corrupt? Anyway, that's a spoiler alert for an episode that's probably not coming out for four months. Yeah. Anyway, as always, 40K lorecasts, the weekly podcast focusing the lore of the 40K universe, releasing every Monday at 7 p.m. Eastern Time.

If you go to our show notes, you'll see links to a few different things. First, our Patreon. We now have a Patreon where you can sign up for it to get the cast ad-free. Follow the link. You'll take you straight to it. There's also a link there to our Discord,

which we always recommend to everyone come check out. Our Discord is a time of recording 8,000-plus member with lots of activity. Focus on everything really about the cast. and what the cast is about. So it is, obviously, you can talk to Brad and I. We're both in there regularly, but more importantly, it's about the lore of the 40K universe.

If you're looking for literature recommendations or just going to discuss it further, it's not just us, because I'm wrong a lot, Brad's wrong a lot. We're all wrong a lot. But if you print 8,000 people together, the odds are we're going to be right about something. So come on in and enjoy yourself.

We also have stuff there talking about movies, memes, et cetera. Really great little spot. Super shout out to our moderator. there who've kept it really clean and well organized. It is one of the better places, I think, on the internet to get some of this information. So jump on it. But with that, let's get back to the imperial fists. Booboo. Yeah. Oh, so let's start post-heresy. As we discussed the last time, Dorn was pretty beat up at the end of this. In fact, so beat up that it affected the rest of his legion. It was a weird little thing. So as we said, Dorn was active non-stop

for three straight months. the end of this event, something actually happens to him internally. And it's called Dorn's curse. And it spreads throughout the entire Legion. It's kind of the same way the Black Rage hit the Blood Angels. I don't know. Did anything happen to the Iron Hands? I actually don't know. Is there a curse on the Iron Hands from the death of Ferris Manus? They, weirdly enough, everybody knew about their Primac's death and Iron Hands. The blood angels got permanently damaged. The Iron Hand, the Imperial Fiss effectively got OCD slash severe depression at the same time.

Yeah, but this happens before Doren's death, spoiler alert. No, I don't think that that's a thing is the death is always a big thing. But whatever is going on with the primarks, think about it, all of the legions have always suffered from whatever the state that the primark is in, because they're psychic link to it. So you don't have to be dead. It's just that was a huge blow. This is, again, the Primark's psychically linked.

he seeps down into the rest of him. Like, Dorn had a failing in, well, not he didn't fail. He felt that he failed, you know. Exactly. So, and he never wanted to happen that again. So Dorn is a combo. It's really, he's in a severe, also in a superhuman severe depression, but he's also, he's bananas OCD now because he can't think of anything but how to be better.

faster or whatever. What are my plans better? And I think this makes him worse, to be honest with you, though. Like, he's better before. Oh, no, there's no question. Dorn post-heresy is an inferior version to Dorn pre-Herrorist. Oh, by a lot. But we both, we're Americans, we both flush with it. It's a shell-shot quarterback. It's the same thing. The problem is that he was invincible, and then all of a sudden he wasn't invincible. And now all he sees is his lack of invincibility. That's the way to describe. I'm going to do it better, because it's, it goes into it, it's like a fighter suffering his first defeat, undefeated fighter.

Yeah, there you go. A lot of those guys never come back from that. Yeah, because he got, and the irony is he didn't even get defeated. He just won, he won a decision victory. Split decision. Yeah, split decision. He's like, I can never fight again. Look, man, grow up. So anyway, Prince Curris real quick is something that affects

all of the Marines and his lead. Well, it can affect any Marine in the Legion. And it's simply as someone having a bit of malaise and wanting to fight stronger and stronger opponents in an effort to show their superiority, or the more extreme version of it is that they become obsessed with perfect performance in battle. And at the conclusion of any time that they fight, all they want to do is go fight again, which makes them useless because there's no break. We're going to get into this in two seconds here with weird

face, the pain glove. But like, a bunch of his legion starts to be acts of self-flagellation. It's just I can't go fight right this second, so I should score myself for the failings I've had. Because when I wrote these notes, it took me a while to make this one cleaner than my initial first pass on what this is. So Doran's a bit of a weirdo. And when he discovers is that the only way for him

to really center himself is to inflict massive amounts of pain. He has to suffer. I'm thinking slash hoping GW took this from the self-flodulation, that knights would do during the Middle Ages, not what I think we all think this really is. And so the idea of the knights in the Middle Ages

was that they would punish themselves for any perceived fault, and that was their way of gaining atonement, was, I know what I did wrong, therefore I will harm myself and do it. So Dorn builds this thing called a pain glove. And what you do is it's not a glove. It's actually something, it's a glove than it envelopes your entire body. Yeah, and it shoots electrical currents through you.

making your entire, all the synapses in your body light on fire. So if anyone who's been luxury, who's had the luxury of having nerve pain like I've had, where your entire arm or leg catches fire, Dorn just did that to himself and it was fun. Now, the interesting thing about this is that Dorn does this to himself. His Legion then picks it up and it actually does become a cure for Dorn's curse. So if you get this issue where like you just can't get out of your own head effectively, you go and you hop in the good old pain glove and electrocute yourself for however many days it takes

to stop doing this. I think that it would probably cure my malaise or at least I wouldn't tell anybody about it anymore. Hey man. Yeah, that's insane. You're like, hey, Brad, how you feel it? Awesome, super good, unbelievable even. I've never felt better.

So you sure you don't want to hop in the pain glove? I'm good today. I'm good. You know what? No issues. Yeah. It's who wants lunch? So back to Dorn, though, so Dorn post-heresy, the first thing he does to atone for his sins is he joins in the scouring heart.

He grabs his Legion and he's going to go out and it's traitor-ass kick and time. And to be fair, Bobby G is super angry at this because he thought him and Dorn were going to be rebuilding a bunch of stuff. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, Bobby G gets back. He's like, okay, Lehman's off, bye. Duh, of course, Lehman's going to do. Lion, I honestly didn't really want you around anyway. Go ahead, boogie out.

Jagged I Khan, no one knows where he is. Who cares? But he's supposed to be rebuilding, but he just takes off. Yeah, yeah. And let's be, let's be honest about it. What he wants, he wants to punk Perterabo. He wants to, he wants, that is kind of the, the focus of his hire. It's all traitors, but he's looking for, he's trying.

trying to pick a fight. And we cover this about 20 episodes ago. We were talked about where the prime marks are now, Trader and Legion. So this one I'm going to do really quick for you all. Dorn and his Legion discover Petarabo are on a planet called Sebastus. And on Sebastas in the middle of the planet is a giant sign that says totally not a trap. And then Dorn and his Legion go, got it. And they attack the totally not a trap, which is actually a giant complex of trenches and fortification.

and Dorn and Legion land on the outside of it and just go step by step destroying all of it and killing any iron war they see there until they get to the center which is a giant open space at which point because there's an X marked on it with a piano over atop of it

in the coyotes over there and then Petarabo's Popple says, I lied, it is a trap and springs the trap and they go into a kind of a pretty protract battle here. Luckily for Dorn Gilliman was not far behind. It basically was like, come on, man, I need you back here. Gilman also saw the trap from a distance and went, yeah, that's totally a trap. What are they doing? And the ultramines descend and save the

imperial fists. This story's odd to me. Every time I've read it, it's always been a little bit odd, the only explanation I can give for like the story of this is that is to show how broken Dorn was after the siege of terror. This is the kind of thing. He was. He was the kind of thing. He would have never fallen for in a billion years. I actually like this story, even though he gets punked on it. But I feel it's a good story because of the fact they're showing he's doing things that are exactly the opposite of his character or how he usually acts. He's blinded by rage. His logical, what he usually is tech turn, you know, going by the book. He does everything that he despises kind of in his rage. And it takes him a while to figure that.

out because again, Dorn after the heresy is the Diet Coke of Dorn. I know that I screw with it, but like before this, he's just a fortress. He himself is just can't be, I will never move, I'm always going to win.

And after the heresy, I think he just makes bad decision after bad decision because he's just filled with anger for the people that did stuff, but also anger, again, because of anger on himself, that he could have done better. Another example of this is actually the second founding. So remember, Doren

has always been, he speaks his mind, very much speaks his mind, but he is a true believer in the imperial truth and the growth of the imperial. And so Gilliman comes to him with the second founding. And again, so second founding is when they decided to break up all the legions. They said, no legion, she'll have more than a thousand members. Puff cough, black Templar. But get to them next week, guys. And he comes to everybody, and Gilliman knew he had a fight on his hands with Lehman and the Lion. He knew those two would be absolutely against it, but he assumed Dorn, like Vulcan and the other ones, would see the rationale for it. Dorn did not. Dorn actually was more aggressive around this than Lehman, the Lion were.

Lehman just went, okay, and he left and just didn't. Yeah, he just went. Yeah, we're totally going to do this. Yeah, whatever. And then he just drove away with his Legion. They went, do you have a timetable for when you're going to do this? He's like, oh, it's going to be soon, for sure. Yeah, totally. We're getting right on it. I just got a couple things to do that are going to take 10,000 years first,

but then I'll get to it after that. And then the lion was just basically just, okay, and then hung up the phone. That's the line. Vulcan Jagadai. Vulcan pushed back a little bit, but he still, he didn't say no. Jagatai Korax, they were all on board. Dorn was almost psychotic in this one. Dorn not only, Dorn didn't just say no.

He actually began attacking Gelleman with a, how dare you, but then actually started questioning Gileman's loyalty to the emperor. And in the weird turn, Dorn actually, Gilman, of course, says, what are you talking about? Of course, well, and then Dorn says, well, where were you at the siege of terror? You weren't there. Why? Because you don't believe in the emperor. The reason Gillen wasn't there, because he was trapped in the warp, by the way.

It's why he couldn't get there. So this, it just, it catches Gilliman all, genuinely, like on the back foot. And Gilliman does exactly what Gilliman would do the situation, which just throws it right back at him and says, you're the one opposing the Imperium now. You are the traitor. I'm not the traitor. You're the traitor, which is, this is just two brothers arguing. This gets so bad, though, that Dorn actually, we moved towards a civil war because Dorn brings

his entire fleet together, refuses to be. break up and actually turns his fleet in an aggressive stance against the imperial fleet that are there. The imperial fleet, of course, respond, thinking they're about to get attacked by the phalanx and the rogue and the Rogold Doran's fleet.

It actually does... I mean, hold on because things get so weird here, dude. Because they get it a huge stalemate where these fleets are posturing each other. Like one person does any... Your ship docks a little too fast. All of a sudden, there's a

or you're like, how are we going to fix this? Or Dorn could get super bananas weird and go into his pain glove for a week. Well, hold on. You jumped it because before he does that, one of the Imperial Navy ships fires on the Imperial Fists. And that just gets, and everyone's like, oh, hold up. Well, it's something about that happens.

And then Rogel goes, fine, I'm going to go meditate in my pain cage. and goes back to his weird, his pain glove. And, yeah, to breath away, one week, spends a week, Shane tortured, at which point, I'm sure both fleets are just sitting there going, so are we doing this? Awkward. Yeah, you basically have two kids about to have a fist fight with each other, and then they just keep staying there long enough.

Everyone around on them, so should we just get a bite to eat? Like, what do we do? Do we hang out? Like, ugh. But anyway, when he, Dorn comes out of us, much calmer, and he agrees to the second founding. but he does it in a very, very cool way, whereas Lehman and the lion just didn't do it.

I simply put it. No. Dorn sees something, and this is why I really do respect Dorn. He sits there and accepts the Imperium of old is gone, and that the new Imperium would only resemble the former. Yes. So he resched...

No, but I don't want to go too far on this, because I don't think that you... Saying that the old Imperium is gone, No, kind of. Because Dorn wants to hold on to the old ways, which the old ways were crusading. So I think he's more in line with the old Imperium. Well, and that's what I'm saying. I think the way I took it as is he's accepted what was is gone, but he wants to preserve what was.

He still wants the Imperium to go back to that. So he's got to structure his legion in a way that will preserve. what he cares most about. And he restructures them basically to honor the emperor and what was there. So what he does is he makes it so that they most closely follow the original imperial creed. Mostly, because the Templars kind of embraced the ecclesiarchy a little bit later, which is not part of the original imperial. Happy not, but no, exactly.

So a couple cool things he does. First off, all of his second founding chapters are going to adhere to the Mantrake of the Great Crusade. They will continue the mission of unifying humanity under the banner of the emperor. All successor chapters are going to continue gaining territory and expanding, conquesting new frontiers, establishing a fortress, moving on. The same that the fists have been doing for hundreds of years prior to this. And out of this founding, we get crimson fists, black templars, soul drinkers, a whole bunch of them. But I also, Dorn does another thing that I think is awesome. and I wish other legions had something as cool as this.

The space wolves do, but it's not as great. Dorn makes something called the Feast of Blades. And Dorn knows that his legion being broken up is going to lose contact with itself over time. You take at this point probably like 20,000, if not less soldiers, but you break them up into different legions, actually probably listen to 5,000, I'm being honest,

break up into different legions and then send them all fall in their ways, they're going to lose contact with each other. And if they lose contact with each other over time, they're going to lose the ways of battle and the ways that kind of what makes them Imperial Fists. So he makes this thing called the Feast of Bleeds. It's a once a century tournament where all the successors of the Imperial Fists send a champion to a fighting tournament, a little one-v-one tournament until a champion's crown. And the winner just brings honor to the chapter and then that chapter hosts the next tournament.

I think that's the bigger thing here because, that what they're doing is making it so a champion, obviously you want your chapter, you want to show your martial prowess, but he wants different people to win because he wants different hosts, because it gathers them together, shows where the each,

where are my brothers right now? How have they been doing? What is their status? Where's their head that kind of thing? Where are you? Exactly. And it helps also keep the pride going. One important note here,

the imperial fists are not psychopaths. They don't fight to the death. Because there's stories of these things. The one between, is it the space wolves and the dark angels, I think, is the one where they have it. And every now and then, it's gotten a little ugly a couple times. No, these guys are awesome. And so the feast of blades has occurred every 100 years-ish.

So basically, the way it works is whenever you win it, you have to hold an event within the next 100 years. It might be 60 years, might be 70, might be the full 100. But it has to happen in that period of time. they have never missed. Even with the War of the Beast, even with all the things happening, this event has occurred.

There have been times and only like 10 guys have shown up, but it's always occurred. So after this, let's talk about why Doren's not in the game anymore. Yeah, but Doren's death. Pause, I'm putting an asterisk on there. Doren's maybe death.

They have his hand. Yeah, let's get into it. It's in the first Black Crusade, you know. Yeah, Dorn has the lamest death. Like I don't know. all the primarks. He's the lamest of all the one. So not even a good story. Abedon's first Black Crusade comes out. Dorn is there. He meets them. And he personally teleports onto a battleship to kill everyone on the bridge with his honor guard, where he dies. And his honor guard

come back holding his hand. Maybe again. Yeah. Maybe. I know. Well, we'll get to that. So the hand of Dorn is what it's called, has sat. It's the most holy relic. It sits within the phalanx, obviously. And for 10,000 years, it's been there. Cool thing about it is they've engraved every Imperial Fist chaptermaster's name on it. So it's basically the Stanley Cup of Primark. Now, the reason this is interesting is for the entire history of 40K into this point until very recently, that's been it for Dorn. We now got some new stuff.

And I'm going to ask anyone who is in the process of reading the newest fulgram book, Perfect Sun, to fast forward. about three minutes. Or, I'm going to say that because... Earmuffs. Yeah, or earmuffs. Yeah, earmuffs. I forgot about that.

Because I'm going to spoil it. It's a book that released at time of recording three weeks ago. I haven't read this, but it got spoiled for me when I was doing the research, and I didn't want to leave it out. So for those of you who are going to read that book, again, three minutes. Yeah, here we go. So in the book, there's a black time I was having a vision. And in that vision, he's fighting against Fulgram.

And while fighting against Fulgram, suddenly Rogel Dorn appears next to him, surrounded by what appear to be Gemini Superior. It's described as sisters with Jumpex. So I'm going with Gemini Superior. Severs that are with St. Celestein. With St. Celestine, exactly, yeah. So Dorn then takes up the fight with him against Fulgram and they beat them back. When the Black Templar wakes up, he tells a story to his least. leader. And the leader decides this is not a just random dream. This is an omen. And that Dorn is

alive. And what we can do is if we fight Fulgram hand to hand, then Dorn will return. So they, of course, get the ship and they head right towards where Fulgram is. And this is an interesting thing from a GW standpoint. Because remember, Fulgram hasn't been in the game ever. Yep. Ever. We just brought Fulgram back. It's only in Horacee. Right. They just brought Fulgram back. And what GW in my mind is implying in this novel, and it's a maybe, because again, this is a novel, not a codex. If it was in a codex, I'd say this is definitely happening because it's in a novel, it's a maybe. But they're implying that

the battle with Fulgrim by the Black Templar will be enough to bring Dorn back in. And I had never until I saw this thought that they would bring Dorn back into the game. I thought of all the primarks, it's definitely Lehman Ross, maybe Vulcan. But then I started thinking about it. It actually, from a narrative standpoint, makes more sense for it to be Doran. Because the Imperium up until 7th edition was failing. The tyrannids are overrunning them. Abinot has broken the sky. A rift? We've got the rift. Yeah, we've got the rift. Everything's going the wrong way. And who do they they brought back? We've got the captain of logistics, Gilman, with the largest force and primaris Marines.

Then you've got the greatest offensive mind, which is the lion. I mean, Lehman can fight, but we're talking about, like, of the loyalists, who can take a fight to an enemy and win battles, it's probably the line.

If you then bring the best defender in, it's actually the Imperium has a chance now. So, I don't know. That's my thought. I will say that I want GW to do this, and I want them to do it for one very simple reason. I want them to bring Dorn back. I want Dorn to be the best model

in the entire game from a rule, standpoint, and I want to watch Brad play Rogel Dorn in numerous tournaments because he can't help himself. If he's awesome, I would. And I would be so mad that he's not Vulcan. Oh, he'd be so great. I would love watching you win, like, major with Rogel Dorn because he's like got Gilliman's powers, but he's only like 180 points. So I'm just silly like that. And you're just like, just like have to play Dorn. Oh, just above. It would. It would be great. Anyway, with the death of Dorn, I want to jump then into kind of what happens with the fists afterwards.

So the scouring begins, the fists and all their successors join in, as we said. Post-death of Dorn and they say the subsequent pseudo-death of Gilemon, Lehman disappears, Vulcan disappears, the lion disappears, Korax disappears. There's no prime marks left. This creates a problem and a gap in the Imperium. And the fists step into this. Because as each of these legions without their prime kind of become more heavily focused in their little regions of space, wherever their home world is, and they start waging what I would call private campaigns.

If you look at the stories from about 31, like M31 up through about M40, all of whatever codecs you have, it's regional. There's a couple little things. Obviously, War of the Beast, Armageddon, some of these things pop up. For the most part, they're all over the place. the only legion that focused on Terra was the imperial fists. Because the custodes, by the way, were just in the palace. They weren't even opening the shutters. They were just in the palace.

And the fists, which makes sense, they have no homeworld. So they're just a giant, massive flotilla moving around the galaxy. And they decide to take on this role of protectors of the Imperium, which is super awesome. I'm a huge fan, obviously, of this, because the Imperium needed this. They stayed initially out of the politics of the Lords of Terra, but they would make their presence known. Let's just put it that way. Because they should always, every time the Lords of Terra do anything like eat breakfast or exist, you should always kill them. All right, Corland.

Getting there in a second. But one of the great examples of why the fists are so important is the Great Orgoa, the War of the Big East. because the only reason the Imperium doesn't die in this moment is the Imperial Fists. So this org-wa begins, as we said before, this is the first wa. The orcs were always held in check by the Eldar. When the Eldar went down and then even with the emperor there, the orcs were held in check. But now there's just not enough. The galaxy's hitting anarchy zone, which is where the orcs really thrive.

So this massive things begins. and no one really within the Imperium takes it seriously. The Lords of Terra actually and a bunch of planetary governors. Hold on. I'm going to psych up for this because the Lords of Terror are responsible for the War of the Beast, period. The War of the Beast originally was a smaller wog and people, some of the Lords of Terror's vassals and minions and a couple of Lords of Terror called for, we need help. This is happening. and the majority of the Lords of Tara

withheld that help to try to weaken their political rivals and wait for it. And because of them doing this, the Wogg grew exponentially. And that's one of the many reasons that the Lords of Tara suck eggs. Because they let this happen.

This grew from a, this is going to be a tough battle because a Wog's going on to a whole crap. This is one of the biggest. Alexe may fall. Right, exactly. Luckily, at a certain point, word reaches the fists of, hey, this is a huge problem we have.

We have a massive Zeno incursion that is running through everything. And Corland, who actually becomes a chaptermaster for a very short period of time before he dies in the same war, saves the day. He recognizes that the orcs are not just a threat to the sector, but to all of the Imperium. So he does a couple things. First, he marshals local support to slow down the org. So he basically gets there and takes what exists of the planetary defense forces and gets them to help out. The second thing he does is awesome. He calls for something that's called the Last Wall Protocol, which is like a cheat code that Dorn put into the second founding that says,

should a threat arrive that's so significant, all successor chapters of the fists would unite under one battle flag again. And that's called the Last Wall Protocol. all. In doing this, all of the crusading fleets of the successor chapters stopped what they were doing and rushed to, I believe this is Ulanor at this point. You're saying he lit the beacons of Gondor? Yeah, because of Gondor were lit. This order, though, goes beyond that. Because it's the fists, and the fists are respected, all members of the imperial military, namely other space marine legions, also take note of this. So the ultramarine successors, blood angels successors, the space wolves themselves and more all start rushing over to have this for this war.

And we discussed the War of the Beast before. It's where the Death Watch come from. This is, the War of the Beast shifts the military structure in a few different ways. Some, it's also because they took bananas losses. Like, holy crap. Yeah. The losses are so extreme that I believe one chapter was reduced like 50 members. One thing that's actually cool about this story, too, is after it ends, the fists,

themselves, the main chapter was so heavily damaged that there was a potential that they actually would die off. So their successor chapters all gave over their recruits to the Imperial Fists so that they could bring the Legion back up. Because the successor chapters would rather, their viewpoint was we would rather us die off and cease to exist than to lose our progenitor. Yep. Progenitor. Yep. Now, again, the Imperial Fists weren't done yet, though, because the aftermath of the War of the Beast, the Lords of the Terror went right back to their old ways. They were given a bunch of recommendations of what needed to be done, and they all went, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and embezzle some money over here and stab my rival.

That's more interesting. So the Imperium, it almost collapses under this war with the orcs, barely survives, and the Lords of Terror decide, nah, let's put it in the grave. Luckily, or unluckily, it works out both ways. Thane, who's now the current chapter master of the Imperial Fists, seized the Lords of Terra are idiots and are untrust. worthy. So you're like, I need somebody to keep an eye on them, get them back in line, straighten out, I want to make sure the Imperium's running great. Let me see,

list of people I could give that to. How about the head of the imperial assassins? What possibly bad could happen if I tell this guy to find out? Oh, he did watch out. They did start doing dumb shit. And he immediately killed all of them, every single one. Yeah. Every single one, to a man. And then, What's weird about this is that he then takes over, but I can't tell if he actually officially took over or if this is more of a weekend at Bernie's thing. Because it's this weird little bit where he takes control

and they refer to him turning into a tyrant, but at the same time, it seems like people still thought the Lords of Terra were around. So anyway, this thing eventually and the fists come back a little bit later and have to invade Terra, which, by the way, is a funny thing about the fist. They built all the defenses. They spend a lot of time in the lore attacking said defenses.

But they do. This battle's cool as hell. They go and they actually have to fight their way through the Temple of Eversore Assassins. Not somewhere where you want to beat? Not a great time. Not a great time. Took so awesome.

But anyway, they succeed. They kill him and they place a new group of Lord of Terra in charge. And once again, head off into the galaxy. Fast forward, another, I think, millennia or two, Goge Van Deer. Goge Van Deer, and this story is going to come up a couple times, by the way. He also is going to come up in our Black Templar cast. Goge is the one who takes control using the Ecclesiarchy to take control of the Imperium. Specifically, the Sisters of Battle.

Yeah, well, before they were the Sisters of Battle. Yeah. And at the height of his crazy, Goge gets the attention of the Imperial Fists and the Black Templars, mostly because he actually destroyed a few of their fortresses. Black Templars don't like it when you kick Sandcastle down. Imperial Fists really don't like it when you kick their sandcastle down. So they came back and with the help of the custodies, Goe ends up dead. Side though, this is one of the first times that the custodans come out and fight.

Yep. So this basically becomes the post-heresy mantra for the Imperial Fists. They've taken it upon themselves to honor the emperor. by being his most stalwart supporter. They want to finish a great crusade and bring all of humanity under the wing of the Imperium, but at the same time,

they also are trying to fortify and unify the Imperium. Which is funny because they're on Terra, but they're also the people that are the farthest away from Terra at the same time. Yeah. What happens is with the Fist,

this is why I think the Fist was such a major part of the player base and the lore for a long time, is because all the first. all of the other legions are bit, like, they support the Imperium, but it's their Legion first. Like the Ultramarines, who we know I love, they're very focused on what the Imperium needs, not so what the Emperor wants. You know, the space wolves want to bring all the glory they can to the Imperium,

but they don't really care beyond the glory. And same, I'll see, salamanders, Ironhands, Ravenguard, Blood, well, Blad Angels are on this little weird spot. White scares, who cares? they're all doing their own thing too, but it is, it's more about them. It's what the chapter, it's what the chapter decides the Imperium needs, whereas the imperial fists in my mind follow the imperial truth much more aggressively. They let the creed, because it creates the religious one. So they follow the imperial truth much more aggressively.

I got it from a good source that the religious part of the empire, it was written by a very good source. Yeah, totally safe. Oh, yeah, also those are the Dark Angels. They have their own stuff to deal with. No one's surprise they're doing their own thing. And so what happens with the Fists is that they become more of the defenders of the realm as it moves into. They, so for example, every time Abidon comes out, the fists tend to be there waiting for him. When the Destroyer Plague was moving through, fists. You don't have as many stories of the Fist taking offensive action. Their successor chapters do. But the Fists seem to settle a bit more into a world of, defending the Imperium, fortifying the Imperium, proving the Imperium. We would see that they're defenders of the realm. Is there what they've taken up? That is their mantle, their mantra. Yeah. And again, I like the fists. I don't want to paint in yellow, so I will never own them, but I do like the fists. Yellow is just rough. Yellow is a rough thing to paint it.

But let's talk now, though, about one of the successor chapters. One that actually was really popular in the game for a while, and then stop, Crimson Fists. Because I'm not crazy, Brad. And like fifth, sixth edition? You saw Crimson Fis. Well, the thing is they had a lot of cool rules when they started doing the successor chapter rules. Plus, Patriotaur was a super cool leader. He had great rules.

And they've got some goofy lores. I like them. So let's talk about the Crimson Fists for a little bit. We'll be right back after a quick break. In my professional life, one thing I know well is how challenging managing a global team can be. Just the act of creating one has been an extreme challenge over the year. because one thing you'll learn quickly is a difficulty of hiring global talent and how unclear those costs can be. It looks simple at first, but then the fees start to stack up with compliance worries, contractors versus employees, and a host of other regulations.

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HR compliance experts. Bottom line, it simplifies global people operation so you can spend more time growing the business and supporting your team. Pebble's new standard discounted pricing is only $39.9 dollars per month per employee. That'll help you contain costs. Go to high, Pebble.a.ai to get a free estimate. That's high, P-E-B-L-A-I for a free estimate. Dorn made his successor chapters. We didn't talk about this earlier. Each successor chapter he made, he did with the emperor that we made the original legions, where he picked specific people. So the Black Templars, who will cover next time, were the most fervent believers. They were through the absolute, the knights of the original Crusades. That's what we meant to copy.

The crimson fists were actually the inverse. They were all the newest members. And the idea was, in my opinion, was to create a legion that would follow the teachings of Dorn, but not necessarily the history. Because the imperial fists, for example, they just love Dorn. They care about Dorn. Whatever Dorn is, Dorn is their Messiah, for lack of a better phrase. The Black Templars were just zealous towards the Imperium.

I'm going to conquer the galaxy. No one's going to stop me. The idea was with the crimson fists, they were supposed to be the most adherent to the Imperium, if nothing else. And so in my mind, they resemble the Seventh Legion more than they were more than they resemble the imperial fists. Quick side note, they're called crimson fists for the dumbest reason I can possibly, well, not dumbest, there's worse reasons.

But apparently it used to be when a chapter master of the imperial fist would get promoted. He would cut his hand with a knife and so would dorn and they would shake on it. And then their hands would be covered in blood because this is written in this. Yeah, this was written, I think, 80s or 90s, and that was a been Blood Brothers was a thing because of, I think, one stupid movie. And AIDS didn't exist. Post-Aids, Blood Brothers went away pretty quick. Anyway, so the crimson fists, they changed their colors as a result, by the way, to, from the yellow and black armor to a dark blue armor with red fists. For those of you who played on the tabletop, I have messed this up before where I thought I was playing ultramarines.

When I looked across the table, it was crimson fists, because it tends. be the same blue, but their hands are red. Anyway, that's that. So, crimson vists. So let's go into kind of how they function and what they do. So like everybody else, they are a mobile legion. They're establishing a home planet. They were supposed to, this does change, have an endless crusade into the galaxy.

They would conquer a land, fortify it, take a tide to the local population leave. This is what's more interesting, though, is that the way that they viewed the Imperium. They're bananas loyal, and they continue to be bananas loyal. And they're, it's weird, is they're not crazy zealots, but they are really, really people that, actually, they're not, you get the same, sometimes they get the same, they're synonymous with. But I think that everybody in the crimson fist is a true believer on what the imperial path is. Yeah, I could see that. What they get is they're odd because, to your point, they're not zealots, but they are mass. believers in it. A lot of them join the Death Watch. In fact, they become very close with the

Inquisition as a whole. The one that Brad doesn't like is they also become very close to the Lords of Terror. They become, this is the part of their Lord that makes them awesome. They are the region of story-wise. They are the chapter of choice when you have to go kill a chapter. Yeah, but they're often sent on missions of people that are not getting attacked for the right reason. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is why in the lore, the lore, like the books, not the codexes, the crimson fists are awesome because they tend, because they're the ones when if a chapter is deemed by the Inquisition to be heretic. Heretical. Yeah, I'm sorry, heretical. Thank you. Then they send the crimson fists to destroy them.

And the stories is, like the first one is the sons of Gideon. There's no story of what happened to them, But the sons of Gideon were determined to have embraced heresy by the Inquisition. No evidence is given nothing, but the crimson fist descend and wipe the chapter out. They wipe it clean. Yeah. There's nothing. Yeah. And they destroy the gene seed.

So they don't just kill it. They destroy the gene. The next one that they were sent after is the Marines Vigilant. This is just one of those kind of, these are these stories, by the way, guys, are a paragraph and a codex, but they're cool. So the Marines vigilant encountered some Xenospecies, no one knows where, and it turned them into pacif. This one is super sad, by the way. It's extra messed up.

So apparently, the Inquisition goes out there, and you just have a bunch of Marines who just don't want to fight. They don't see the value in fighting. There's no purpose in fighting. And apparently, that's enough for you to be called a heretic. They set the fist and they killed them, and they put up zero defense against it. that's just sad, man. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

When the fists arrived, they were like, they're not defending themselves. They basically walked up to each of them and just stabbed them. And the guy just went, all right, and just fell over. Yeah. But the greatest battle, actually, and this is we talked about us earlier, is against another second founding chapter of the Imperial Fist, the Soul Drinkers, which, by the way, not a great name. Like, cool name.

But if you're sitting there going, I want to make a successor chapter about the, how I care about the Imperium. and we're going to go out there, we're going to be the light and the darkness for humanity. Humanity doesn't usually like it when the guys who show up are called the soul drinkers. Like when it's, oh, who's here to help us? Oh, the crimson fists.

What? They have red hands. Okay, cool. You know, the black Templars. Oh, they wear black armor. They got to wear a cross on them. Oh, the imperial fist here. They have yellow.

Yellow is a nice color. Who are those guys? I think it's purple army. Oh, those are the soul drinkers. Oh, we're all going to die. This is going to be terrible for us. Yeah, all of us are dying. So, anyway, the,

The soul drinkers were going to cover them in a later one. May or may not have turned to heresy, but they were labeled as having turned to heresy because, spoiler, they had a little bit of a tith with the admec over some relics that were theirs, and the admec felt weren't. So anyway, crimson fists go out there to kill them, and they fail. They get a chunk of them. So in modern lore around them, the crimson fists are actually still hunting down the soul drinkers.

It's one of their big pieces. Like the same way that the dark angels. Exactly. Same concept. Now, when you are a chapter who's specializing killing other chapters and you're closely aligned with the Inquisition on Lords of Terra, there are some other legions that aren't big fans of this. Of cough, wolves aren't big fans of the Inquisition. And because of that, they are not big fans of the Crimson Fiss.

Yeah. And so what happens is the space wolves basically won't deploy with the crimson fists. They won't be around the crimson fists. If they see the crimson fists, they keep them at a distance. The space wolves, because they've had their own little incidents with the inquisition, view the crimson fists as almost as either a threat or as a traitor. I don't care which one they have, but it's a cool little story that it does have some implications. And my assumption is some of the other legions probably feel the same way about the fists.

Hey, you guys are used to kill other space marines. I'm going to go ahead and not have you hang it out in my ship. You can go hang out over there. And as typical, I'm currently nodding my head at John and no one can see it. But let's continue. That's fine. All right. But let's get into kind of the last little bit of the crimson fists, which is the orcs.

So the crimson fists in the 41st millennia settled down on a planet called Rin. It's an agri world. The Fist had liberated an entire sector from a couple of orc empires. And then after... They land their flagship on the planet, basically. Yeah. And much like we talked about in the age of technology, that's what... They land the ship, and then they cannibalize the ship,

and they turned it into a giant fortress on this planet Rin. There's no real reason for this, by the way. Like, and it's kind of also odd because the last thing that Dorn told everyone to do was Crusade forever. And the Fists went, yeah, we got tired. So we're going to hang out here. But this story's cool. Not really.

Well, the story's got a fun twist to it. The missile's got a twist on it is what happened. It's got a hell of a twist. So the orcs come back. And this isn't, so an orc invasion is happening on a space marine recruitment world. This is normally a very quick story of the orcs showed up and then the orcs were no longer there. Because unless you bring a full wah, you're not getting through this.

And this was not a full wa. But a weird thing happens. The orcs appear in orbit and the fortress monastery goes cool, fires void missiles at it. And one of the void missiles goes up and then its engine basically cuts out and it turns right back down, lands straight back at the monastery, hitting the munitions depot, blowing up the monastery. And when I say blowing up the monastery, six companies of crimson fists were in there. There are 16 remaining, not companies.

crimson fists, including Pedro Cantor. They then have to run across the planet, the continent, to the next outpost. And the story from there is this like rag-tag chapter hangs out for a year and a half under non-stop orc assault. And they discussed this, that when the bolters didn't work, they used the chainswords. When the chainsworts didn't work, they used a rock. These guys fought and fought until the distress call got, because remember, the Imperium doesn't move quickly. So the distress call goes out and the

Imperial Navy goes, yeah, we'll get there. And eventually the Imperial Navy shows up with guardsmen, space marines, and Titans, and the world is saved. Now, that's a really quick story. You might have to say, well, why? Here's the fun part about this. In the afterwards, Pedro Cantor and the rest of the fists want to understand

what the hell happened. How could the kind of almost comedy of errors that would have to occur for this void missile to fall back? It wasn't fell back. The missile turned around, and then found itself laser pointed on the munitions depot. Like a lot of things have to happen for this to go down

because it also, it didn't get shot down either. So it got turned. A void missile got turned around. It targeted the munitions depot. And none of their defenses did anything about one missile coming at them. So what they discover is it's the officiative. you assess norm is behind it. No reasons given.

Is this punishment for some sort of unknown offense? Were the Lords of Terra trying to remove the chapter that's done most of their meddling? Or is the Inquisition just actually did the Inquisition want the world to follow the orcs because he was going to help them with a different mission elsewhere? Or Trayson the Infinite. There's always a chance of just treason. The Brad theory, by the way, is that they're trying to cover up their shenanigans. Yeah, I agree.

I think this was the Lords of Terra trying to destroy the Crimson Fists because they knew, I think it's the sole drinkers thing. But again, I say all that and this is all made up stuff so I can do whatever I want. But that's the fun part of the Crimson Fists. Let's now set up our next cast. And we're going to talk about a person named Sigismund. If you want to read a book about someone just doing some ass kicking, read books about Sigismund. I will say, I wish you didn't have the stupid laurels on his head. I hate that.

It looks really, well, the worst part, they're on his helmet and then on that, and they also are on his bald head when he doesn't wear a helmet. It's really weird. Anyway. He's got one of the greatest quotes about himself. Sanguidius said, quote, he is less Dorn's champion and more pause death itself. Yeah. That's a badass lie, dude.

Sigismund is the greatest. non-primark fighter in the Imperium, and I say that. No, he would beat Lord Gar. He's such a chump. Probably Jagatai. You just hate the white scars. I really do hate. It's fine. I'm going to get yelled at by like the eight white scars players. No one plays them. I just want you to know that in seventh edition, I had a white scars tau combination because they could join each other's units back then with the Alex rules. I had never seen white scars until that eight-th edition codex came out where they had advance in charge and everyone had to play them for a while because they were the best legion

except for the stupid captain who had to run really quickly anyway so sigismund is born on terror he actually fought in the unification wars he joined at the age of 12 and to this date he's the youngest full fled space marine in the chapter's history and he was such a great warrior that he almost immediately gets flagged to be to join the templars which is the honor guard the honor Dorn himself. Yeah, which is like, and by the way, they're called Templars because their surcoat, kind of the cloth in front of the armor, had a big black cross on it. It's a white with a black cross on it.

So those colors invert later, because I'm foreshadowing. Just to help you understand how much of a bad dude he was, while serving in the Templar, the first captain of the Templar died and they needed a new one. I assume he died. They don't even say what happens, but they just say they needed a new one. So Sigismund says, I'm going to do this. I am going to volunteer for the tournament. In order to get the rank of first captain,

you have to then 1V1, 200 of the existing Templars back to back. This isn't, this is a multi-year. They do such crazy shit sometimes when they say these things. You're just like, how do you ever get a captain? Yeah, yeah. You want to be the first captain? You have to beat 200 of us back to back,

not spread out over a couple years back to back. And here's the better part. He beats 199 of them. And the 200th is a contemptor dreadnought, which with Sigismund with a power sword fights a contemptor dreadnought. And for those of you who don't play the game or maybe it isn't clicking with you,

I have a contemptor dreadnought. Well, he went to legends. And I've taken out entire squads with that on the tabletop. He was death guard, but still. The contempt of Dreadnought is, I mean, maybe Leviathan patterns better, but it's one of the top patterns, I think. Am I wrong? Yeah.

It's, again, you're just not beating a Dreadnought when you're Queensberry rulesing him. Yeah. He went sword and board on a Dreadnought. And he won. So anyway, he becomes the first captain of the Templar. It allows Sigismund and Dorn to become very, very close. He's the head of his honor guard. So wherever Dorn goes, Sigismund goes, but also meant that Dorn would send Sigismund places in his stead.

And this is where Sigisman's legacy really blows up. So he ends up fighting like one of my, these are all just stories of how much of a badass he is. The Imperial Fists and the world eaters are on a planet. While there, Karn, before he becomes Karn the betrayer, bonds with Sigismund pretty hard. and they're having a chat. They're having a chat one day. And Karin goes, hey, man, I don't know what you're doing later,

but we've got these cool fighting pits that we all go into after we've been in a battle all day to go beat each other up because we think it's fun. But they do duels. One v1 duels. Oh, one v. And Sigisman goes, that sounds awesome.

I'd like to take part in that. And he goes in and to his credit, just starts beating the crap out of all the world of years. Badly also. Yeah. Until Angron walks up and goes, all right, my turn. Now, Sigisman does not beat Angron, and he never, no one should beat Angron in this situation.

But he takes Angron longer and further than anyone had ever done it before. And Angron is just for Angron smiling ear to ear. He is absolutely impressed with this one. that's how much he could fight. Now, as much as he can fight, he's also an incredible believer in the imperial truth. I mean, him and Dorn probably are two, maybe Malcolm, actually Malcudor is not much of a believer.

I think it's a huge believer in the imperial truth, and I think he believed it to the end. You know what I mean? He's got some, he's got multiple quotes for him and about him that are amazing. Yeah, I mean, another great one in Horace. Boris Rising is he's got a quote, talking about the Great Crusade. He says, we will spend our lives fighting to secure this Imperium, but then I fear we'll

spend the rest of our days fighting to keep it intact. In the far future, there will be only war. Now, he says that not as a pacifist, as just, it's more just as an acceptance. Like, Brad, you love talking about Firefly, the line in Firefly of, I'm not going to live in the world, but I'm going to create it. That's what Sigismund was on. He was on team. I am going to create a better place in them.

And even if it means that to kill everybody, I'm going to do that. And then the heresy happens. And I don't know. My opinion is that I think Sigismund took the heresy harder than Dorn did. I don't think that he even understood. Like, it's just not a possibility for someone to go traitor. It wasn't even in his mind, you know?

Like what? Like, that wasn't an option. It was so out of left field. that it's almost like he couldn't accept that it was a real thing. Like, what? How? It's not, it is not real. The sky is blue.

Sigisman rages, the traitors. And this rage boils over inside of him. And the plus side, he goes, is it Superson? What's the Sion? What's the term? Yeah, he goes that, because this rage becomes direction, or just the Hulk. And he is full clip ready to go. As much as we talk.

about the last cast, Doren being like Captain Badass, and he was. Sigismund was also there. At Alfarious, Sigisman was there. Against Seamus, Sigisman was there. On the wall, Sigisman was there. Yeah, Sigisman led the raid into Mars, which is a great, again, this great story. It's especially because he's there slaughtering traders and has this moment where he's got the supplies he needs. And he can either take these supplies and go back to Terra, or he can go kill a few

thousand more traders. And to his credit, he takes the supplies back because you knew it was more important. But in the book, you can hear him. He's just furious at like, talk about bad ass moments. You're just blowing off the fact that he had to go toe to toe with Alferius for a while. That's right. Yeah. Before Dorn came there to kill Alfarious, Alfaris was fighting Sigismund. And Alferes was going to win, but it was taken some time. Yeah. Sigismund's awesome. I will say Sigisman, if you basically read the entire siege of terror, he pops up constantly.

End of death, two and three are nuts. He fights Fulgram. He fights Karn. He fights typhus. He fights basically a who's who of traitors. Sigismund fights them. Does need to get bailed out a couple times, but it's pretty badass. Now, one of the best parts of this, and what sets us up for the next piece is during the siege, as the traders are getting closer and closer to intersankham, Dorn goes to Sigismet and gives him a new order.

He is going to be the emperor's champion, the title, the Black Templar is still used to this day. And what his job was is you are going to keep the emperor safe at all costs. And they re-equip it. He puts on the best suit of armor that exists in all his basements. They give him incredible weaponry. this stuff, though, the title is Emperor's Champion, which is a Black Templar title that they give to someone. Now, yes. And Sigismund spends this little period in it, because we talk about the siege of the Imperial Palace. There were random chaos elements that were getting into the palace. Remember, the emperors put up this force field. The palace is a continent wide, basically.

Yeah, but also the Emperor's got a force filled up, and it's doing a good enough job, but it is failing here and and people are able to sneak in. And so you do have traitors getting into the palace. And those traders had basically two things they'd run into, a custod or Sigismund. And it was mostly Sigismund, just basically like a ghostbuster running around the place, just stabbing guys.

With a lot of yelling. Later, he was intense. But later, when the emperor decides to teleport the vengeful spirit, Dorn obviously is going to goes with him. Before he does, he turns to Sigismund and hands the entirety of the devil. defense to him. So Sigisman is leading the imperial forces.

I knew this part was going to make you so happy because there's still another prime arc here. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's Dorn and Sanguineus go up. Jagadai Khan's still there. And Dorn looked at Jagadai and went, I saw what you did with jumping off of the wall to go fight more terror like an idiot.

So this guy over here, he's in charge because 10 to 10, you can't be trusted. And Jagatai Khan just went, Mukher. And so Sigismund takes control of the entire imperial forces while Dorn is up on the vengeful spirit. At the end of the siege of Terra, Sigismund obviously joins Dorn on team. Let's go kick some traitor ass. Fast forward a little bit, though, to Abadon's first Black Crusade. And the Abidon's First Black Crusade is a major moment for both the Imperial Fists and also for the Black Templars. And that's because-

It's a major thing for the Imperium, though, because chaos is not. gone, they're a real threat. Because up until Abidon's first Black Crusade, chaos was around, but it wasn't organized and it wasn't attacking. It was being chased by people, you know. So at this stage, Sigismund is the head of the Black Templars, because we're post-second founding. They know that Katie is important. And they happen to be over there in the general vicinity when Abidon comes out. And two major things happens. Actually, just two main deaths.

First off, this is where Dorn dies and is recovered. But on a different ship. Air quotes. Yeah. Air quotes on dead. I'm hoping he comes back. On a separate ship, Sigismund has been hunting Abadon for over a thousand years at this point because they fought back on Terra.

And Abidon had to get saved because Sigismund was going to wreck him. Sigismund finds Abidon and they have a duel. Abidon's on so many PEDs by this point, though. Well, and Sigismund's a thousand years old. He's a thousand years old when these two fight, and Abidon is full of chaos power. Sigismund is Black Templar. They fight all their way to the bridge of the vengeful spirit.

He confronts him, and Abadon does kill him, but not until after Sigisman runs him through with his sword. And a wound that Abidon still has to this damn. It actually was so deep and so powerful, chaos couldn't heal it all the way. Sigismund dies, and this becomes the launching point for the Black Templar. Because before Sigisman died, the Black Templar were fanatical. After he dies, this Legion explodes with rage towards heretics and anyone who stands against the error. They're banana zealots now.

They also, this is a successor chapter doing one. wild air quotes right now for everyone. Because a chapter is supposed to be 1,000 Marines, and then all your auxiliary stuff. Well, let's get there next week. Let's tease it a little bit. The Black Templar may or may not

be the largest legion in the entirety of a space marines. I mean, they got some people. And when I say may or may not be, we'll cover more of that next week. It gets ugly, but they are incredible zealots and incredible force in the galaxy.

That's why I just wanted to stop it there because next week we're going to do the Black Templars and we're going to go deep into them. So we hope this has been a good enough coverage for the Imperial Fist fans. There's actually a lot of you out there. I hope you liked it for the people who don't have them with Imperial Fists. Hope there's enough information. Next week's an all-black Templar episode because they really just need their own coverage. They are fun and I now may be making my own. Wallace and Hell Brick, Go, go, go, go.

Yeah, no, Halbrook is just, Helbrick can fight. So anyway, as always, this has been John Barsodian and Bradchester. We'll see you guys next week.