The Blindboy Podcast - Cillian Murphy

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

I chat with Cork actor Cillian Murphy about his new film "Small things like these" Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Peros the bootleg dupe you droopy kuseks. Welcome to the Blind By podcast. If this is your first episode maybe consider going back to an earlier episode. Some people even begin from the start, which was seven years ago this week. I put out my first ever podcast this week, seven years ago. My first ever episode, this week, seven years ago. My first ever episode, I read out a short story that I wrote because I didn't think anyone would be interested in my short stories so I created this podcast

with the intention of just drawing attention to some short stories that I'd written. I never really intended the podcast to become a regular weekly thing. And here we are seven years later. And I haven't missed. I've delivered a podcast every single Wednesday since 2018. And I'm going to continue doing that so long as somebody's listening. And as a wonderful piece of just bizarre synchronicity. The short story that I read on that first ever episode, that short story was called, Did You Read About Erskine Fogarty? A story set in 2007 about

a man, a limerick man living in Dublin who'd made a lot of money in the Celtic Tiger and then it suddenly disappeared with the economic crash. And all he has left is his American fridge freezer, so he drags his American fridge freezer all the way back to Limerick. And that story, that was the first ever episode of this podcast, but this week, I'm adapting that short story into a fucking short movie, a short film, with the actor Robbie Sheehan. That's what I'm doing this week. I'm on set. I want to thank everybody who's been listening to this podcast.

I want to thank the people who've been supporting the podcast on Patreon. You've completely changed my life. You have completely changed my life. When I began this podcast, I thought that my career was over. I'd spent my twenties trying to make it in television and music and it didn't work out. My book of short stories was just, it was like a last shot in the dark and that and this podcast, that's allowed me to earn a living, that has allowed me to earn a living for the past seven years

And that's all I want to be honest. I don't want much more than that. I want to write I want to be creative and I want those things to be my job and that's what my podcast is So thank you so much to every single listener We're up to fucking 75 million listens now lads. Most of my listeners aren't even fucking Irish. It's mainly in England, Scotland, Wales, Australia, America, Canada. By the way I have a UK tour announcement for 2025 which I'll announce in the Ocarina pause. So I have a very special guest this week. Again this wasn't planned as some special 7th anniversary thing. It's just coincidence.

I'm chatting with the wonderful Killian Murphy. Long time listeners will know Killian's been on this podcast before. He was a guest in 2018. I've done a few bits and pieces with Killian Murphy over the years. He edited a book in 2021 I think it was called Enva, the book of empathy and I submitted a bit of writing to that but Killian is back, Killian is back for the chat to speak about his new film Small Things Like These which is, it's in cinemas November 1st, Small things like these. It is a wonderful film.

It's based on the book by the same name by Claire Keegan. One of the greatest living writers. One of my favorite short story writers. My top short story writers who I'd be reading frequently and who are writing right now would be Claire Keegan, Wendy Erskine, Kevin Barry, Mariana Enriquez. Claire Keegan is a wonderful writer, in particular

her short stories. I don't know if you remember an absolutely incredible film from 2022 called The Quiet Girl on Colleen Kuhn, nominated for an Oscar, I believe. But that film is based on a Claire Keegan short story. She's an astounding writer. So Killian's new film, Small Things Like These, based on a Claire Keegan book. The story revolves around the Magdalene laundries in Ireland, mother and baby homes.

This dark period of recent Irish history where women were institutionalized against their will by the church and the state. I touched on that subject in a podcast about three weeks ago but it's a historical area that I'm gonna start focusing on more, speaking to the right people about it. So for new listeners to this podcast, because I'm conscious there's gonna be,

there's gonna be a lot of people listening right now who've never heard my podcast, and they're here because Killian is on the podcast. You're more than welcome. Just as a heads up, I don't really do interviews. I try and aim instead for conversations. And when I'm speaking, I'm speaking to someone like Killian Murphy, an Oscar winner. Killian is a master of his craft. He is a master of the craft of acting and storytelling and performing.

So when I speak to a person like that, I wanna speak about art. I wanna speak about the craft. That's what I try and focus the conversation on. And this conversation is about the film, Small Things Like These. That's what this conversation is about. Regarding spoiler warnings, this isn't a spoiler warning type of film.

This is a piece of art. It's a slow piece of work that I'd advise, I'd advise you to watch multiple times. So this chat with Killian, it works, it works as something you can listen to before you see the film and it will definitely works as something to listen to immediately after you watch the film as a companion because we go in depth into the the story telling and the characters and his performance and just another one for new listeners and I am autistic right so I try my absolute very very best to not interrupt when I have a conversation

I really really try hard to not interrupt when I have a conversation. I really, really try hard to not interrupt, but sometimes my curiosity and excitement gets the better of me. And I do interrupt, which is... That's... That's... Autistic people struggle with that, and I struggle with that. So please, please extend a small bit of understanding if I interrupt once or twice. So small things like these, it's out in the first of November. Go and see it, go and see it in the cinema, all right?

And here's the chat I had with the Oscar winner from Cork, Killian Murphy. All right, Killian, what's the crack, how you getting on? I'm very good, how are you? I'm fantastic, I'm fantastic. You're on set at the moment, you are. You will out say what you're on set for. Yes.

Yeah. We're shooting the Peaky Blinders film. You're shooting the movie version of it. We are. Yeah. Is that like a bigger, bigger production than shooting the TV series? Like is it more different? Well, we have more time.

Do you know, we did the television show, we would have to, we do six episodes. So that's effectively three feature films and now we're doing one feature film in the same time. Okay. So like Anna Film said, time is the most important currency of all. And we have more time with this, which is lovely. Absolutely. And I'm actually, I'm on set myself. Oh really? Yeah. I'm making one of my short stories into a short film with Robbie Sheehan

playing the lead. So that's actually what I'm doing today. Class. So that would be, that would be very enjoyable, but it's my, yeah, it's my first time working on. He says anything that looks like a film set, it's not because I'm used to television. You see, so it's you haven't that many people is mad. And are you are you directing it? Not directing it, but like it's so it was one of my short stories.

It's called them. Did you read about Arskine Fogarty? It was my first ever podcast episode. And what a fellow who drags a fridge from Dublin all the way down to Limerick, and Robbie's playing that person. And I wrote the short story and I adapted the script, but I'm not directing it, but I'm keeping an eye on set

and just trying to not get involved, if you know what I mean. You're hovering. I'm hovering, because I suppose the reason I'm bringing up is like this film that you're doing small things like these, right? It's, it's an adaptation from Claire Keegan's novel. Yes. I saw that like endo endo Walsh is the one who wrote the script.

Yes. And I watched it and you've done an amazing job. So the thing about Claire Keegan's book. It's so quiet, it's so quiet and silent. It's. It's almost there's a Hemingway technique of writing. They call it the iceberg theory, you know, or the iceberg technique where. It's the emotions bubble up underneath, you know, you don't describe it the emotions bubble up underneath.

You know, you don't describe it. It bubbles up underneath. And that technique is very literary. It's very much about words on a page and the theatre of your mind. But you've managed to nail it with the film like. Jesus, the character that you're playing, a Bill, right? Yeah, I, I, I literally I worried for your mental health afterwards. I was like, but like you play this character who really has the weight of the world on

his mind and he never, he never expresses it with words. And I could even, what made me concerned for your mental health was, I could see it in your body language. Like when a human is suppressing memories or suppressing things, it forms in our bodies and the way that we hold ourselves. You were very tense. You were like in a defensive ball. Like what, what was that like? Well, I'm glad you picked up on that because we worked on that. And I also like what you said about Claire's writing that, that wonderful kind of economy of language that she has. And it gives the reader an awful lot of space in, in her work and in her short stories and in the in the novellas and i think and it was very keen to be faithful to that.

I mean it's a very very faithful adaptation of yeah. And again we want to leave space for the audience and what's. space for the audience. And what's really interesting about the book and hopefully about the film is that the real, the real drama, the real conflict, the real, the real story starts when the film ends. If you know what I mean? When, when it goes to black and there's that dedication. Yes when when it goes to black and does that dedication and what i love about that is it's a provocation to the audience so. Every time we screen the phone you know goes to black and then the credits roll and then people just in Ireland, because it's an Irish story, but everywhere that we've screened the film,

like we screened it in Berlin for the first time. So people are invested in different ways in the film and different characters, and they have different points of view about what will happen after the film ends. And then in terms of playing him, film ends. And then in terms of playing him, I wanted to make it a sort of a physical performance. I'm very interested in acting with the body, you know, and myself and Enda from the very beginning, we wanted him to be primarily kind of nonverbal, you know, and when they do, when the characters

do talk in the film, they don't talk about what's actually going on the talking sort of banalities add you know and it's it's perhaps there's only one real conversation i think about what's actually going on that's between eileen and bill i'm in the bedroom and everything else is just sort of noise it's nice and it's, it's, it's sad. What made me feel sad about it too is, is so when a human lives their life that way and a lot of humans live their life that way where memories and pain are under the surface, but are not spoken with the mouth. Yeah.

Bill has to engage in this, this performance of of, it's kind of inauthentic. So even he loves his daughters, like it's very clear, this man adores and loves his daughters, but even when he speaks with them, there's no playfulness, compassion, do you know what I mean? It's still quite direct, a matter of fact, even when he's dealing with his daughters and that to me, I see that as the that's the consequence. That's the price that a person pays when they live their life in such a repressed way, when they repress so much pain.

What was. Like I we all know someone like Bill, it's it's it's actually quite Irish. That that character is very Irish. When you were trying to get into that, that character, was there anyone that you knew or someone from your childhood that you were evoking? Not directly, no, not directly, but I know those those working men to do. And I mean, those men that have

they they've worked with their bodies all their lives and kind of have studied them, you know, the way they stand and sit. There's the call as well. Yeah. Were you thinking about, did you drag a bag of coal around for a while? That's in his body too, you know, there is the little humpback. Yeah. Well, we had one of the prop lads that worked on set, like miraculously

used to be a coal man. Um, so, uh, he showed, because I was like doing the full, like sort of actory thing, going, I'm going to work in a, in a, in a coal yard for a week. And of course there's no coal yards in Ireland anymore. They don't, they don't exist. for a week before the shoot. And of course there's no coal yards in Ireland anymore. They don't exist. So I couldn't do that.

But this fella anyway showed me how to lift them and all. And they were proper coal bags. And anyway, so there's that sort of, and then Claire Keegan said something really interesting. I listened to her on a podcast and she said that simple thing that I stole was that he walks always looking down. And you know that that's a very Irish thing as well. Do you know walk looking down at your feet, looking down at the floor,

looking down at the pavement as you're walking and rarely will you make eye contact? It's a beautiful thing she wrote because it's so that it's A, he's a coal man. So he's going to be looking down at the ground. B, it's always raining. So we tend to look down at the ground and C, it's the Catholic, the Catholic repression that the looking down, the looking away from the horrors that are over there. And also what I love about Claire's choice of making Bill a cold man is, because I was thinking about it when I was watching it, it's like, why is he a cold man?

He brings warmth to people and everything is fucking cold. Like it's Christmas, it's cold, but emotionally everything is cold. No one is really saying what they want to say. No one is speaking about the injustices that are happening behind walls in in wexford. So yeah i'm the only person who brings. Physical warmth and then by the end emotional warmth you know that's true and i suppose if you're gonna write a protagonist that has access to all the community's homes. Do you know what I mean? He's there. He's always in doorways. And he's the only fella that will have access to the convent

and then to the laundry. Do you know what I mean? Because if you wrote, if you, how, it's a genius trick as a writer. Like, how do you write a story like that? Unless you give the character access, how is he going to get in? Do you know what I mean? How are you going to tell that story? So it's just a brilliantly executed story.

Something as well, too, I'd love to ask you about. So I've often wanted to do podcasts about Magdalen laundries. Even last week I made an attempt. It's so difficult to find information because so much of it is repressed. There's so like I went to art college, Killian, in a Magdalen Laundry. I went to Art College in the early 2000s and this place had been a Magdalen Laundry up until 1996. And I'm in there in the early 2000s. And the shit that I saw, this building is still in Limerick and like it was only recently renovated. So it was renovated about eight years maybe and the college part

was downstairs but upstairs had been untouched and I knew the caretaker and the caretaker let me upstairs. So I went upstairs and it was the 1970s, the wallpaper, everything. It was the 1970s. And then there was a bathtub full of women's hair. Oh, my God. Yeah. And the other thing as well about this building. It's like, so there's a church, the church is now the gallery space in the college.

But this church, if you were a crow looking down from above, you could see that the church was shaped like a crucifix. Right. So the pews are basically different. face in the college, but this church, if you were a crow looking down from above, you could see that the church was shaped like a crucifix, right? So the pews are basically different arms of the crucifix. And they had designed this church in such a way that there's little tunnels, tiny little tunnels going in underneath the church. And I asked the caretaker, cause he showed me, I said, what the fuck? Why is there tunnels underneath the church? And he said, that's so the women could never see their children on a Sunday.

So the women were in this, this laundry in Limerick and their kids were in the same laundry, but they must, like, they must never see each other. So even though they'd go to church every Sunday and that the women could hear their children singing, they could never see them and they'd move in tunnels underneath that that closed in 1996 and something about the film is if I, I knew what year it was set, right. I knew what year it was set, but if I fucking didn't, it could have been the sixties like Wexford. The only thing that gave away in 1982 was for 1984.

Is it 84 near the end of the film? When bill is talking to a lady in the pub, I can hear, don't you want me, baby? In the background. If I didn't know that I go, this could be the sixties. This could be the seventies. But we're not talking, we're talking about recent history here. Not 1984 is not a long time ago. That's our lifetime.

And it's, it feels so ancient. I mean, what really charred me was the nuns as basically prison officers, the nuns as people to be legitimately feared. Now, I don't, I vaguely, vaguely recollect that from my childhood. But we kind of lived through this. Like, how do you feel about that? How much of your childhood was coming up here? Like, do you remember any of this extreme terror around the church?

Paul Anthony No, no, I didn't, thankfully didn't experience any of that. I mean, you know, I, so in 84, I would have been eight or something. So I'm, I'm, I'm older than you, but I would have been about eight or something like that. And then, uh, you know, but I went to, uh, you know, I was taught by brothers in secondary school and so you did the Catholic education thing. Same with myself. Yeah. The full thing.

Yeah. All the way up. Everybody that I know did, did, did, did that. school and so you did the Catholic education thing. Same with myself. Yeah. The full thing. Yeah. All the way up. Everybody that I know did that. But I think if you're someone that's my age, you're going to have one foot in, in, in two different worlds. Yeah. If you know what I mean.

Um, you have the foot in, in that, that, that Ireland of the eighties and the early nineties, uh, and then you have obviously a foot in what's happened since in the last, you know, 10, 20 years, this massive progressive change socially. Um, so I kind of, it gives you an interesting point of view. I think, um, but the, do you know, I think we, we tried to be very careful with the film and also I think we tried to be very careful with the film. And also, I think the book is trying to be careful and not not to not make it about blame, really, but more about kind of understanding and

you know, it's very clear that there are survivors who are victims of this abuse and cruelty, and then there's the people that perpetrated it. But the sort of interesting place is the people around at the time and the sort of spectrum of innocence to complicity, or does that spectrum exist or are we all on the same spectrum that's interesting to know and. But again without apportioning blame without big dogmatic without making it. Angry film it's it's made it's a very gentle film my hope you know and the book is also very. And I think art should be gentle in approaching these topics. And there's a lot of people that are walking around that live this reality. So you have

to be very careful about it, about it all. Um, but on the other side of that as well, though, Killian is like, you, you've just come off the back of an Oscar, fair play to you by the way. You've just come back off the back of an Oscar, right? And now you're doing this relatively low budget film about Magdalene Laundries in Ireland. Is there a part of you? So I often wonder, is there a bit of an activist in you, if you know what I mean? Like there's young British people who listen to my podcast and they have an understanding of Irish history because they watched Wind That Shakes the Barley. That reached them. Young English people who grew up with nothing but propaganda towards the Irish watched Wind

That Shakes the Barley and now they're going, oh, you mean the British soldiers were actually acting as terrorists towards the local population. I didn't know that. And now there's people going to be watching this movie. Who, who don't have a clue about the Magdalen laundries. Don't have a clue that, I mean, what's often said is, is in the 20th century, Ireland had one of the world's largest prison populations. If you look at the Magdalen laundries that way,

is there a sense of activism in what you're doing? I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier on about, you know, when the lights go up with this film, people are still sitting there and still, and then people go and talk about it and talk about it. And that's what that's the sort of work that I like to make if possible. It can't always be that way. You want to make a work that has a point of view really, or the tell stories, I think that that are of a human dimension. You know, because you could go and read, there's plenty of reports on

all of this that went on and there's more being written and there's plenty of reports on all of this that went on and there's more being written and there's more revelations coming out where it's like an avalanche of this stuff. But I feel like there's a gentle way to do this. And if people watch this film and people in different countries watch this film and decide to read about this, then that's a good thing. Do you know what I mean? Because I do think there is a universality in this specificity of the story. Mm hmm. Do you know what I mean? Well, the church did this in a lot of places, just under different guises. Like if you go to Canada, for instance, exactly.

Indigenous people in Canada were forced into church run residential schools. Very similar situation, too, with indigenous people in Australia. And America and Boston, you know, to with indigenous people in Australia. And America and Boston, you know, it happened all over the world. And again, talking about complicity, it wasn't just the church, like I tell you, one of the maddest things now, I'm going to I'm going to fact check this one afterwards, but I know I'm 100 percent right. And if it's wrong, I'll delete it. But I am 100 percent right.

One of the one of the maddest things that happened with Magdalen Laundries in Ireland was, do you remember playing that game Mousetrap when you were growing up? Remind me. It was, Mousetrap would have been like a board game you'd get at Christmas. It was not far off operation. You know, one of those ones that are Monopoly, one of those ones that all the family would play. Operation, you know, one of those ones that are monopoly one of those ones that all the family would play Though a lot of those games were actually made in Magdalen laundries because the company who made them had a contract with the Catholic Church So a lot of childhood games that we played I can't remember the exact company

But a lot of those were actually made in Magdalen laundries They were they were farming out the labor of these women. A bit like private prisons in America now. Well, you see, this is the thing that, that is hard to quite comprehend. Not only was the behavior apparent and appalling, but it was then monetized. No, that's the thing that is, that is hard to quite comprehend. So hotels and everything would send in their laundry to get them washed. And if you were saying this is true, then, you know, so so the institution was making money

from these these women. And that's the thing. That's the thing that always not my real name, Blind Boy. I'll say it again. That's the thing, Blind Boy, that always strikes me in these sorts of stories. It's always women and children that are the collateral damage always. I'm not sure we're trying to reinforce in this story even though it's told from a man's point of view it's a story about women written by a woman yes.

Yeah cuz that was one thing that's. thing that kind of flagged for me as this is a man as the savior of this story. And this is a man Bill Farlong and Bill Farlong cares about women because he has a bunch of daughters, his mother is dead. But it's on closer inspection. I was like, no, because there's more depth to that. I think I think Claire included those details. I think for men, for men to be able to listen to this story more, I think you're probably right. Yeah.

There's a sense that some men only begin to see women as humans or even notice misogyny when those men have daughters of their own. And I was, I was left wondering that about the character of Bill. You know what I mean? And that left me it left me questioning the empathy and altruism of Bill. Men should acknowledge acknowledge women's suffering because they're human beings without that being conditional in any way.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And. Another thing about this film, there's a sense of it going full circle, right? I want to know if this was deliberate or not, because you've Enda Walsh writing this, OK? And Enda Walsh wrote Disco Pigs, which was your first proper play for stage.

And then Eileen Walsh plays Bill's wife in this story. And Eileen was opposite you in the play version of Disco Pigs 2. Like, was that deliberate? It felt like the universe was kind of making that happen. Okay. It really did. So I've worked with them many times since we made Disco Pigs, which is now. 28 years ago, which I believe. And, um, but I hadn't worked with Eileen and we've remained really, she's one of my

favorite people in the world, one of my favorite actors in the world. And we've remained like really, really close friends, but for some reason we hadn't worked together since we made that play, which changed both of our lives. And then when we came to make the film, you know, the character is called Eileen. And it just seemed to be the universe telling us that now is the time for you to work together again. And I remember we did the first, we did our first scene together, which was just me and her sitting in the church and the director Tim Melance who I've also worked with three times but he put the camera on us and he said you could feel the history through the lens that you know he got it for free because we had

that comfort or that ease or that discomfort to whatever that you get with a long-term marriage and a lot of the time. You're playing a married couple or lifelong friends whatever you you you you meet the actor in the first day of work and you have to you know that's your job you have to convey that and. Make it make it make it feel real. But with Eileen, we got it all for free. And I don't think you would have had that real depth of a relationship if it hadn't been her in it. And aside from that, she's just stunning, stunning actor. Oh, she's phenomenal. Yeah.

And, you know, the two real set piece scenes in the film are the scene between myself and Eileen in the bedroom where she actually finally addresses what's actually going on and we talk about it openly. And then the other set pieces that the scene with me and Emily Watson, a sister Mary, and they're just two phenomenal actors. I don't think the film would be the film it is without them in it. I'd love to talk a bit about the character of Eileen because she's really into that. So Eileen's character, she's almost like Irish society a bit. I wouldn't say that. I'd say that the character of Eileen is, I'm not gonna say cold, she's practical. Bill is

about emotions. Bill is about, sometimes I don't know, is Bill trying to do what's right or does he somehow feel that by rescuing or helping these women that somehow he's bringing his own mother back to life? Like it's very much related to a trauma that he suffered with his mother dying young, and then not knowing who his dad is. Yeah. That it's a personal thing. But then Eileen speaks about money. Eileen, Eileen speaks about money.

A few times Eileen speaks about money. She speaks about the practicality of Christmas is very expensive. We need a few quid for that. We need a few quid for this. And then you get the sense of the price that that Bill, if Bill does what he wants to do, and I'm guessing what Bill wants to do

is to go to the Magdalene laundry and rescue them all. But he's warned these nuns have their fingers in every single pie. So he will be financially destroyed. And then Eileen is right, right there down the middle saying, well, you kind of just have to, you have to kind of turn away. You just have to move on with life and turn away. We're aware there's some type of suffering happening behind these walls, but you just have to move of turn away. You just have to move on with life and turn away. We're aware there's some type of suffering happening behind these walls, but you just have to move on with it.

And that's very jarring because. What it reminds me of is obviously. Like in Ireland, we've had direct provision for the past 20 years. I know they're removing it now and replacing it with something else, but direct provision was very similar to Magdalen Laundries in that there were these very high walls with people you didn't see and you just got a sense in your tummy that something bad was happening in there and we'll never know the full picture.

We might one day. That's always been my vibe about direct provision. And Jesus, even now with, with, with Gaza and Palestine, you know what I mean? You're just like, everyone's just like, just get on with your life. What can you do? What can you do? Get on with your life, you know? Yeah.

But yeah, I think that is the power of the system. Do you mean that's how powerful it was because the church controlled education Education the church controlled health you know what i mean and and and sometimes. The system of oppression is run by the oppressed themselves and i think that is the case you know in this in this story and it in a lot of ireland. a lot of Ireland. Bill is delivering the coal and it's Bill's business. It's Farlong's coal company. So he's delivering all this coal to the business. That's worth him a nice bit of money each year. That's the thing.

It's what, it's what you have to lose. It's, it's the leverage that they have is that like, what are you going to lose if you stand up and say something? And for, for this particular family, it's pretty much everything, everything. And in that scene with sister Mary, she makes it very clear that there's not much room in the school and that hopefully she'll be able to make space for the kids. It's just trying to try to examine that, that asymmetrical power set up, you know, how, how did, how did that carry on so long? And it's because people want to survive. People want to raise their children.

People want to get through the day. People want to just survive. And if you like the eighties in Ireland were, were a very, very, very, very tough time, you know, because everything was closing down, everyone was leaving, there was no money. And so to have it, like you say, to have a job and to have a business. Are you going to gamble all of that or risk all of that? Who would be the one to sacrifice themselves? We're just going to take a brief,

a brief interval here from the chat with Killian Murphy in order to do the ocarina pause, which is, I play an ocarina and then an advert happens, alright? I don't want the advert to jump out of nowhere and frighten everybody so I play a little gentle ocarina to lull you into the advert, which is algorithmically generated I believe. I've got a bit got my big bass ocarina this week so it won't disturb any dogs that might be listening. So let's play the ocarina here. I've been learning to play that one, it's a tough one to play but I like it, I like the bass vibe of it.

Sometimes I play these ocarinas that are too high pitched and there'll be people listening with their dogs and the dogs are going fucking ape shit, you know what I mean? I don't want to be doing that to the poor old dogs. So ye'da heard an advert there, I don you know what I mean? I don't want to be doing that to the poor old dogs. So you'd have heard an advert there I don't know what for. Support for this podcast comes from you the listener via the Patreon page. Patreon.com forward slash the blind buy podcast. This podcast is my full-time job. This is how I earn a living. This is how I pay all my bills. It's how I rent out my office that I record this podcast in.

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please do it on your computer like patreon.com forward slash the blind by podcast. Starting on November 1st, if you have an iPhone, if you subscribe to my Patreon on your iPhone on the Apple iOS App Store. Apple will take 30% of the fee. So if you become a new Patron and you're like, oh I'm gonna give Blind By the price of a pint because I like listening to his podcast. Well if you're a new subscriber and you do that now on your iPhone, 30% of that money is gonna go to fucking Apple, the dirty bastards.

So please, if you're becoming a new patron, just take the time to go to patreon.com forward slash the Blind Boy podcast and sign up as a patron that way, not through the Patreon app on the Apple iPhone. Thank you so much. not through the Patreon app on the Apple iPhone. Thank you so much. And also, having this podcast being listened or funded, it means I'm not beholden to advertisers. Have you any fucking idea how many advertisers

would want to knock down my door because I'm chatting to Killian Murphy this week? If I was beholden to advertisers, if advertisers dictated the tone of this podcast, they're not gonna let me chat to Killian Murphy for an hour about art. They're gonna say to me, ask him what his favorite filling is

on a chicken fillet roll, and then we're gonna clip that, we're gonna clip that and put it on Instagram. Fuck off. Go fuck yourself. Ask him questions about putting on the immersion. Fuck off. Go fuck yourself. Ask him questions about putting on the immersion. Fuck off. Make it snappy and quick like a radio interview so that that clip can go viral and we can drive loads of listeners to the podcast and you'll get the most amount of

listeners and then we can push that back to our product. That's what it means. When advertisers dictate, that's what has radio and television destroyed. I keep saying it. So no, this podcast is funded by listeners. And when it's funded by listeners, it means I can focus on quality. I can focus on shit I'm actually curious about. I can speak to Killian Murphy about art. That's what I want to chat to Killian Murphy about, and that's what we do, and that's what Killian wants to chat about to be honest. He doesn't want me asking him about chicken fillet rolls or when did you get your first shift at the teenage disco or the bullshit that Irish actors get asked on the red carpet in order to create

viral moments for TikTok and Instagram reels. Right, quick upcoming live podcasts. 2025. Fucking Australia and New Zealand, that's sold out. Okay, so that tour is sold out for, for, I think it's April 25. So right, this Sunday, glamorous shit. On the 2nd of November, I'm up in Claire Morris and Mayo doing a live podcast. Very few tickets left for that. Let's get rowdy and Clare Morris shall we? Right then, Vicar Street, 19th of November up in Dublin. Fuck all tickets left for that. 19th of November. Wonderful Tuesday night gig. There's about, I'd say 15 tickets left. Come and get them. Galway, Leisureland on the 9th of February 2025. Ah, fucking, Drahedda, 21st of February 2025. Belfast, the Waterfront Theatre, 28th of February 2025.

And then just announced my big massive giant tour of England and Scotland but not Wales. I don't know why that is. This is for June 2025 Gonna get hot and sweaty in England Just announced 1st of June, right? We got the beacon in Bristol. 3rd of June I'm in the hall in Cornwall. Fucking Cornwall. Give me a bit of Cornwall. 5th of June I'm in the city halls in Sheffield. 6th of June. I'm in the City Halls in Sheffield. Sixth of June, I'm in the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester.

Eight of June, I'm in Usher Hall up in Scotland in Edinburgh. Ninth of June, I'm in the Glasgow Pavilion. Tenth of June, I'm in the Barbican in York. Can't wait to go to fucking York, man. Good strong Viking city that used to be called Yorvik. Give me a bit of York. Then down to London. I'm in the Troxy in London on the 11th of June. Then Bexhill. Bexhill. My tongue is hanging out for a bit of Bexhill on the 13th of June at the Delaware Pavilion. And then I'm finishing the tour on the 15th of June, 2025

in Norwich, in the Theatre Royal. My England, Scotland and Wales tours, they sell out quite quickly. So get your face into a load of that. Back to my chat with the magnificent Killian Murphy, whose film, Small Things Like These, is out on the 1st of November. Yeah.

The way you say it, the film ends, right? And we're just left going, what happens next? Jesus is out on the first of November. Yeah. The way you say the film ends, right. And we're just left going, what happens next? And like, Jesus Christ, what happens next? Because it would have made the papers, you know? Well, this is the thing. And this is why people talk about it so much. And I don't know if I should. I mean, most people read the book, to be honest with you.

So, yeah, I don't know what the rule is. Well, if you don't want to if you don't want to hear about the end, skip forward now. But there we go. Yeah. But my feeling is that there's two points of view, right? My, you know, there's the view where he brings the girl home and into the house. And, and then the parish priest is called out and then the cops are called and then the, the, the then she's taken away and and the marriage collapses and the business is gone and he has to leave the country.

Or Eileen says, sees that this young child that's pregnant and says, right, come in, we'll take her, you know, and they keep going. It poses a very interesting question about class and class in Ireland, too, killing. Cause the thing is, so if we look at that, so the film version, right. Bill, so Bill kind of grew up kind of posh, right. But Bill's ma. By accident. Yeah. So, so, so Bill, Bill is, is a kid who did not get institutionalized as a

result of class, but that's who Bill is also, but as a result of an act of kindness, there's that too, there's that too. But if I, if I ask my ma, right. So my ma is in her eighties and I asked her about these laundries and all this, something she said that really made me think was, well, it wasn't the middle class girls who ended up in the Magnan laundries and all this. Something she said that really made me think was, well, it wasn't the middle class girls who ended up in the Magdalen laundries. It wasn't the girls from the quote unquote good families in the town who might be related to a priest or a doctor or a solicitor.

It was the girls who came from poor families who were sent to the nuns. This is anecdotal and based on something my Ma would have said to me, but if women who were middle class got pregnant before marriage, they could go to the local doctor and the local doctor would basically allow the girl could have the child in private and then the doctor would ensure that the baby was sent to a middle-class family somewhere in Ireland. And my ma said that that was well known what would happen. So it was a class issue. So I think with the ending of the film, I don't think Bill, I don't think that

girl gets to live with Bill. I think because it's 1982. The girl is from the north of Ireland. She's a Catholic. The six counties, the troubles, she got pregnant. She's been forcibly sent to the nuns in Wexford. Those writing choices indicate to me that this girl is at the bottom of the system. She's probably a poor working class Irish person and she would have been sent back to the institution that you would have needed to have some amount of money and

clout and power to be able to take a woman from the Magdalen laundries and say, this is my new daughter. I'm minding her. You'd need to have the type of clout and money that Bill benefited from when he was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's probably the realist view of what happens after the film ends. I think. But then again, it's 1982 though, because you're really at the cusp of this shit too with 1982.

Four. Or 1984 even. But still, it's the same difference. Like when I was a kid, Keelian, right? You know I've been diagnosed with autism recently, yeah? No, I didn't know that. All right. I got diagnosed with autism, right? And what that's done for me is I've been reappraising

my entire life. I imagine so. I was a bollocks in school, right? I was really, really troublesome because school just didn't work for me. And in the early 90s, when I was like seven, so I would have been in Catholic school, nuns, all that crack. I was so poorly behaved that I wasn't allowed to make my communion.

Right. So that that's the fucking worst. Yeah. He's not allowed to make his communion for another year because he's so bold. And the nuns dragged my man in and basically said, this kid is just so bad. He's so poorly behaved. He has no concepts. All the, all this crack.

No one knew I was autistic. You know what I mean? Yeah. And what my man always says to me is if that had been 20 years earlier, you'd have been taken from me if that was 20 years earlier, the word of those nuns would have been enough for the guards to come and say this child needs to be taken away and put into an industrial school. And I never gave a shit about it when I was younger, but now I look at it

and I go, she's right. What protected the early nineties, if this was the sixties, seventies, I'd be gone because the nuns are saying he's wild. He can't be controlled. There's a demon in him. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And we all know what happened in those industrial schools. Oh, absolutely. I mean, how many people in these laundries were mentally ill? How many? You know what I mean? There's so much. I mean, there was women thrown into

magnoling laundries because they would have been considered too attractive. As in they would have decided that one there is too attractive looking. So just throw her in there. You know what I mean? Yeah. My mother told me that she remembers this expression when she was growing up. Lipstick on the lips. Lipstick on the lips, dust on the shelf.

That was the sort of way we were viewed. So if a woman was overly concerned with her appearance, you'd have a messy house at home. Wow. Do you ever hear this thing called churching? So there was this practice where, so when a woman had a baby, she had to get blessed by the priest before she could go back to mass. But you weren't allowed back into mass. Before you had this. So my grandmother, who was an eminently practical woman and refused to do this, and it's, it's a minor, minor small protest, but the, uh, she refused to, to,

to be churched before she went back to the sin of sex. Is that it? It's just about, as far as I know, it's about the woman had to be cleansed. Even like this is, these are like, you know, married women having babies. Uh, but still yet they were deemed not fit to go and receive the sacraments. So it's just insane. So I'm sure along the way, there's plenty of men and women that did. If you think about Edna O'Brien, she was standing up to all of this.

And Sinead O'Connor was doing it later on. So there were people and it's just that Bill Ferlong seems very much ahead of his time in our story. And that part of the country is very, very, very different to Dublin and even Cork, I imagine. Do you know what I mean? But even there is like, like what I was teasing that earlier. Bill Farlong is a good man.

But I don't, I don't think selfish is the right word. I don't want to say selfish, but I think, I think he's, his desire to save has, has a lot more to do with personal trauma and his mother's death. Oh, yes. And I did never want to play him as a hero. I think he's actually a man that's in the throes of a nervous breakdown. When we meet him and I think it's all this, um, this grief about his mother and, and not knowing who his father was.

And, and, you know, it generally hits men in middle life. Um, that's where all this stuff comes. Comes if it's underdressed, that's where all this stuff comes, comes. If it's unaddressed, that's where it comes at a fierce pace at middle age. And I think that's when we meet him, there's this kind of confluence of crises that he's dealing with. And, and it's then when he sees, when he finds the girl, that just sets everything off, but I don't, it's like, I always feel like then he's, when he finds the girl that just sets everything off But I don't it's like I always feel like then he's when he's walking over the bridge at the end To take her from the shed. I think he's it's in his body not in his mind

I don't think he's intellectualizing what he's doing. I don't think he's thinking this is a heroic act He's just been driven there and I do think that in his head. He's rescuing his his mother Oh, yeah, do you? And I think it's. Harry's are like a bag of coal. That was wonderful. So, so I think you're right. And I never, ever wanted to make him like a conventional hero. It's, it's a, it's an act of someone in deep, deep distress. And it's, it's, it is like the title of the book and it's, it's an accumulation

of small things, small events, you know, that lead him to this act at the end. It's his process of recognising himself and recognising the society around him and also grappling with his own past. So it's all of these things are happening over these days leading up to Christmas. So it just brilliant storytelling, but absolutely not a hero. No. And. It's the other, the absence of alcohol is interesting, too, because Bill's character. He really should be turned to the drink.

If you look at Irish culture, if you look at like, mental health system didn't exist in the 80s. If someone was to describe Bill, they'd say, Asher, your man's nerves are at him. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah. Nerves are at him, which was the catch all term we had for anyone with any type of mental illness.

And then when he goes over the edge, that person had a nervous breakdown, stay away from them. You know what I mean? That's all we had. And everything about him is he should turn to the drink. person had a nervous breakdown, stay away from them. You know what I mean? That's all we had. Everything about him is he should turn to the drink. What I found so well observed about the writing is he did have a sense of stability, even though his childhood was very sad and his mad died, he had a sense of comfort, space, stability and safety in his childhood. And you can, I think that stands to him. And I think-

And books. And books as well. An interesting one was how the character of Eileen raised her eyebrow when he asked for a book. I know, yeah. But it was nice because it made me go, Jesus, does she know fuck all about him or does he give nothing away? I think it's probably a both, do you know? Like imagine being married to someone and you go, you're into Buxy, yeah? You kept that one quiet, did you?

And she says something like, would you not prefer a shirt or something? That was interesting too because the shirt wasn't for him, it was for her. When she said, would you not prefer a shirt, I knew that was Eileen's character going, I wouldn't mind you, You're covered in coal. Would you get a new pocket? Yeah. Yeah. But I do think that, you know, he was given that thing of like of books and

there, I think you do learn a huge amount of empathy through through books. This is only my own sort of backstory for him that I were working at that, you know. And it's interesting. He's reading Dickens. Yes. You know what I mean working out that, you know, and it's interesting. He's reading Dickens. Yes. You know what I mean? And that's very deliberate. And, but it's all these lovely little breadcrumbs that you have as an act.

Cause like when you're an actor, it's like being a detective, you know, you're trying to figure out how do I build this story and how do I build this character and all these little crumbs, it was amazing having the book alongside the script to be able to piece, piece them together, you know? It was amazing having the book alongside the script to be able to piece them together. And something I can say for the film is like even just there, the fact that you and I were able to pick one tiny interaction in the film and there's so much there. The film is incredibly literary. There is nothing in this film that does not have intention and purpose in it. in this film that does not have intention and purpose in it. It's incredible.

And when you speak about the ending too, we don't like those endings in films. We don't like that type. That's quite a literary ending. Like something I adore about Claire Keegan's writing and her short stories in particular, and it's something that I always try and aim for when I'm writing is,

sometimes a short story should end the way that a weird dream does. You know when you might have a strange dream and you're thinking about it for weeks or it just pop up in your head? If you can end a story like that you've won. And this film ends like that. I'm going to be thinking about this in three weeks when I'm in Sentra, you know what I mean? It just pop up and I'd be going, what happened? What's that about? I think if, if something, I think if something achieves the condition of art,

and that sounds very pretentious, but if it does, it can haunt you. It can really haunt you, you know, and it can stick around with you. I like a good film, a good book, a good song and you're dead. Right. It's, it is like a dream. It just colors. It can color your days and weeks after seeing something. That's what you really, really aspire to.

Um, as a storyteller, you know that yourself, you know, that's what you're trying to achieve is something that will haunt people. Um, we've about 10, 10 minutes left, right? So I wanted to ask you the questions. Like what, what's it like winning an Oscar? Uh, um, it was, it was, it was wonderful and bizarre and, uh, hard to process. And I, and I don't know if I've properly processed it all. I went straight back to work.

That was my coping mechanism. Is it freaky? Is it, is it, is it a bit fucking terrifying? You have to, you have to approach the whole thing with a bit of joy. You know, you have to approach the whole thing without any cynicism whatsoever. Because if you do, you're screwed because there's no place for it, you know, and it's a it's a celebration of, of, of, of work. It's people showing their love for a film, for, you know, several films and work. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what you got to go into. Like, and that's what I tried to do. And for me, it was strange because I think I did more press this year in one

year than I've done in like 28 years of acting combined. So it was, it was certainly a baptism of fire, but I chose to enjoy it. You know, I hadn't my family with me and I had a great team around me. And, and I really felt profoundly the support, you know, from, from people, particularly in Ireland and from friends. And it's amazing because of this, the nature of the media, every single person knows about it. Do you know what I mean?

Cork didn't need it, man. Cork didn't need it. I'll be honest. Like, I mean, fair play to you, but fucking Cork didn't need that. Come on. I know in the context of Dublin, Cork needed it, but not in the... Cork is Limerick's older brother, so any time fucking Cork does something good, like they look down at us and go, what are you up to, Limerick? We've got Corks back when it comes to Dublin.

I'm not getting involved in this now. All right. Like you're someone who you like to focus on the work and the other parts that come with your job. I know that you tend to, you're not too interested in it, but winning a fucking Oscar that changes your profile completely. Has any of that been difficult for you? Um, not so far, honestly.

I mean, I, like I said, I went straight back to work and, and these two jobs that I did directly after it were already set and ready to go. So in, in terms of like worker, it hasn't changed anything. And I, and I feel like I'm old enough now, like I'm like a 48 and I'm fairly set in my ways. I know what I like. I have a lot of collaborators that I continue to work with and will hopefully keep working with. So I don't think there'll be really any major change in any way.

Are you able to go to the shop? Can you go to the shop? Like, Oh yeah. I mean, like at home, it's, you know, sort of, you know, kind of, you know, it's like, in any way. Are you able to go to the shop? Can you go to the shop? Like, Oh yeah. I mean, like at home, it's, you know, sort of, you know, kind of familiarity kind of evaporates fame. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sure. There's Keelan. There he is now.

Buena Fanta. Exactly. Exactly. So, so it's fine. It's, it's, it's really fine. And Irish people are just sound when it comes to them. Like they really are. And I think they kind of know what sort of person I am. So it hasn't been difficult, genuinely. And I would tell you, like it hasn't been, it's all been a really lovely,

completely overwhelming experience. And do you want to take a break at all, or are you just, fuck it, what's the next thing? No, I'd like to have a rest. I'd like to have a rest next year for sure. Because I don't have the stamina for going from job to job and being on that kind of carousel constantly. And this year has been a freak here because I've done, made like three jobs

and had all that stuff at the beginning of the year. And it's so it's very unusual year for me. Normally I'll do one job a year and I'm the rest of the time I'm just at home. So I'd like to go back to that pattern. I really am not that resilient or strong enough to keep going from film set to film set to film set. I just don't. I've never been able to do that. So I really like just being at home and being among people,

you know, just being in that kind of flow of humanity. That's that's what kind of having a bit of keeps me having a bit of crack. Yeah. And just reading books and just doing stuff. And I think then when you when you go back, you're rejuvenated, you filled up the tank again and you can go back to work. That's that's how it's always been for me. And what about music? Like, because like you're a former musician, but you're also a massive music nerd. Like nerd.

Do you have any desire to start making music again or anything like that? Or are you happy to just be a fan? I'm always making and messing around. And like, it's, it's, it's something that I've that I, you know, I, it was my first love and I really yeah the thing of sitting because I know you're a musician as well and the thing of like sitting in the room with friends of yours and communicating again on that nonverbal way there's something that is magic about that and I sometimes get it in acting really really good when you're with really good actors and you get it on stage as well you get this sort of connection and this sort of transcendental kind of connection with the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and the actors and good when you're with really good actors and you get it on stage as well. You get this sort of connection, this sort of transcendental kind of connection with the other performer. Empathic flow.

Totally, and it's nothing to do with words, but it's just this energies. But I think you feel it much more acutely when you're making music. So I love to make music with my pals because it feeds something in me that I don't quite get from you from acting. Was bass playing your thing with this?

I know. Good to get very, very average, very average guitar player. Did you ever get into the band micro Disney from Clark? They were a bit before my time, but yeah, very aware. I'm not that old. Fucking blind by blind. I'm not that old. Fucking blind bike. Blind bike. I'm not that old. Blind boy.

All right. Listen, I leave you going now. Right. So that's like 50 minutes. I'd say we've covered everything there. Unless you want to chat about it. No, that was brilliant. That was really great, man. You really got the film. It feels like you really connected to it. I love this. I fucking loved it. It was great. And again, just to see to have read the book and seen the film and to go, wow, because that was hard to do. That was that's really hard to do.

And every every one of you nailed it, you know. And Tim is Belgian, is this? Tim is Belgian. And I, you know, you mentioned the Winner Chicks, the Barley there earlier. And that was made by an Englishman, you know, Ken Loach. And I've always felt that not being Irish gives you an advantage making these really peculiarly Irish stories. And Tim is he's an artist. He's a real true artist. And he did season three of Peaky Blinders with me. And and and he, you know, wasn't the obvious, obvious choice for this film,

but I just knew that he'd understand it. And he had been through something in his life that really connected him to this to this story on a very personal level. And he's also the way he kind of paints, paints with the camera, like he is really, really beautiful visually and as a director and actors adore him. So, yeah, it was it was a really good team. And many of the people like the crew that I had worked, I hadn't worked in Ireland a long time, but many of them I'd worked with over the years.

It was brilliant to be able to ask them all to come back and and work on the film again. All right, Killian. Good luck. Thanks a million. All right. Thank you to the wonderful Killian Murphy there. I thoroughly enjoyed that chat. That was good crack. Go and see the film Small Things Like These

in cinemas on the 1st of November, only a couple of days away. I'll be back next week, on time and schedule, with a hot take. I can't wait to get up tomorrow morning and start researching and writing for next week's podcast. It's an absolute, it's a privilege, it's a privilege to have been able to do that every week for the past seven years. I'll never ever take it for granted. I'll never do it half-arsed. I'm so unbelievably grateful to get to explore my curiosity each and every week for the past seven years and hopefully for as many fucking years that people are

willing to listen and that podcasts exist. Alright? So, I'll catch you next week. Genuflect to a worm, blow a kiss at a Labrador, wink at a Pine Martin. Dog bless.. Thank you.