The Blindboy Podcast - Tara Flynn

Episode Date: December 26, 2018

An interview with comedian, writer and activist Tara Flynn. I also rant about Red Dead Redemption 2 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello. Hello and God bless. Welcome to the Blind Boy Podcast. You're listening to this on Stephen's day, I'm guessing. If you're choosing this as an opportunity to show this podcast to members of your family, don't. Go back to an earlier one. Choose your favourite one. Choose your favourite favorite one and if you're a new listener just go back to the very start anyway if you're listening to this you might be slightly surprised because last week i said to you um i was going to skip this week i was going to not do the podcast this week because i am recording this on Christmas day and I wanted to I just wanted to get fucking shit-faced on Christmas day and not have to worry about doing the podcast but I got a lot of mails from people who were kind of um not pissed off but actually kind of worried

you know I had a lot of people kind of just say they kind of really rely upon this podcast for kind of peace of mind or just out of habit or out of ritual and other people saying that Christmas for them was going to be stressful

it was going to be lonely and they were really really looking forward to having this podcast so when I read those mails I was like yeah fuck I really should um be kind of mindful of people like that and find time to just do the podcast which is what I'm doing right now which is no great inconvenience to me to be honest so here it is

now it's a slight compromise this is going to be a live podcast but it is a very well recorded live podcast and it's good crack so it won't interfere with any podcast hug so it's christmas day here for me it'll be saint stephen's day for you when you're listening to this um have i any news not really i bought myself a copy of, a game called Red Dead Redemption for Christmas,

so I've been playing a little bit of that, fucking fantastic, it's the closest thing a video game has ever come to, like a box set or a drama, like it doesn't, it doesn't feel like a video game, I'm overwhelmed by the sheer size of it. Very interested in characters, interested in the narrative.

It's a new experience. They've done something very new. So fair play. Do I have any criticisms of it? Yes, a little bit. Red Dead Redemption 2 is kind of a western cowboy game. Set in 1900 and it's like the end of the western era and there's good politics behind it. It's about cowboys in the old west, how they kind of became irrelevant as federal America became a nation you know so the characters in this game are trying to push towards rest the west to be free to have freedom outside the law and away from federalism the

federal american government because the americans historically had this thing on the 18th century i think it was even earlier it was called manifest destiny right so the east coast of america had been colonized and taken from the the first nation peoples and then they were like but there's this huge swathe of country to the west so they called on the average person the people manifest your own destiny go west all right frontierism basically frontierism go west as a civilian into the badlands and take whatever you want it's yours okay utter freedom there's pastures there there's whatever, but you are the avant-garde. Go west, found your towns, you know, take the land, whatever you want to do. It's like manifest destiny, like, you know what I mean? It's completely fetishized.

We as Irish people, we're essentially, culturally, we're an American colony, you know? Culturally, we're an American colony. All of the West is an American colony because American cultural output defines our culture, our popular culture anyway. So this idea of manifest destiny, it's fetishized in America. Manifest your destiny, the great West. Go and find land for yourself you know take the plentiful fruits of the trees and plant your crop and start your free towns and escape the the oppression of europe that you left the hardship of europe to have full bellies and never want for anything you know and also the fetishization of

a thing called the oregon trail and the oregon trail was basically a human caravan of of many many people going through oregon which was a path where people would go west i believe to manifest destiny and create their towns or cities or farmlands whatever and through years and years of american media you know we've been told what wonderful things look at how this wonderful country was created through manifest destiny and the oregon trail and they're just describing like very brutal colonialism like yes the people were escaping ireland or poland or whatever the fuck but at the expense of the the native peoples that were living there so

it's much more similar to what we in Ireland we've got the plantations of Ulster not just Ulster the plantations of Ireland where Queen Elizabeth I believe I could be fucking up my history seriously here now lads

because I don't know was Cromwell involved in this I think Queen Elizabeth told Cromwell I think to go and colonise Ireland if it wasn't Cromwell Elizabeth definitely set up the second

children invasion that's what it was called and it's where Ireland was planted with Scottish Protestants essentially and we look back in that as Irish people as this horrendously brutal time that utterly eradicated the culture and the Irish people the native Irish people in a very aggressive brutal way the Brits said to these planters go to Ireland it's yours take what you fucking want fuck the locals that's what Manifest Destiny was with

the Yanks and the Oregon Trail I mean it's ironic that the Yanks fetishized the Oregon Trail which is you'll see it in there's a good film on Netflix at the moment called The Ballad of Buster Scruggs by the Coen brothers. And one of the little stories in that is about the Oregon Trail. But America fetishizes this historic trail of immigrants that go across Oregon in search of freedom in the West. And it's no different to what's happening right now in America with the border and Trump. These people from all around the world, from Africa to Pakistan to Guatemala to Honduras, making the big long human caravan trip all the way up to the border wall of America.

Because that's their manifest destiny they believe that they will become millionaires when they get to America because American media has presented itself to the rest of the world as this amazing land of wonderful riches and very very poor people are making dangerous fucking journeys from Africa to South America, all the way up to the border to be met now with Trump's fucking wall. How did I get onto this rant? Red Dead Redemption 2. So that's kind of the background of the video game. One thing that's, like the detail in the video game and one thing that's like the detail in the video

game is astounding that the horse that you have in the game their testicles shrink depending on the climate in the game so I just found myself marveling at a digital horse's testicles shrinking because I was going into a colder climate in the game amazing attention to detail but they also there's a lot of Irish characters in the game and they could have done better accents put it that way some of the accents are disgraceful um one or two of the accents are authentic and they got real Irish people to do it others it's clearly a yank doing a bad Irish accent. And there's lots and lots of Irish characters in the game.

They have a gang called the O'Driscolls. So that was disappointing. What they should have done was... The game is set in the 1900s. What Irish people were fleeing the poverty? In 1900s you'd have had, like the famine was only 40 years before that so they'd still have areas of Ireland that were destroyed by the famine. I want some accent, I want someone from Gart. I want to be playing this game and I want to be

firing bullets at a man from Gart who's hiding behind a rock, screaming at me in a Gart accent to stop shooting at him. That's what I want.. Screaming at me in a Gart accent. To stop shooting at him. That's what I want. If you're going to shrink. A digital horse's testicles. Then. Hire a few people from Gart. To do some accents for the gameplays.

So as soon as I finish this podcast. I'm sitting down on my couch. With a couple of cans. And I'm playing Red Dead Redemption 2 and I won't be doing anything creative I won't be thinking about creativity I won't even

I will try my best not to analyse the game from a perspective of cultural Marxism which I think already I've failed em which I think already I've failed. I watched a bit of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory there earlier as well, because it was on television.

I don't watch television, except when it's Christmas Day. Then I go, well, I have to watch television now. So I turned on the television, and is it called Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, not the one with Johnny Depp, not that weird one, the original one with Gene Wilder from the 70s, and I have one of those HD TVs, like a 4K HD TV, and it does this thing, there's a name for it but i can't think of it but hd tv what it will do is it'll get films right and it'll make them look really hd and it doesn't

in an unnatural fashion it i think it does a thing called interpolation right so if you have a film from the 70s like charlie and the Chocolate Factory. This was filmed on 35mm film. It's a bit grainy, it's a bit blurry. You know, when you look at it, you want to get the feeling of, ah, this looks like the 70s, this feels like it was made in the 70s, it sounds like it was made in the 70s. That aesthetic is what makes you get that nostalgic buzz, whereby you enjoy Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

It takes you back to an earlier time and place. But I watched it on a HD television. And it interpolated it. So what it does is. Software in the television. If the image is slightly blurry or whatever. Or a little bit out of detail. This weird software kicks in. And sharpens the image to make it look HD.

So now I'm watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and it looks like an episode of fucking EastEnders. It doesn't look like a film, it doesn't look like a movie. It has that ultra-sickening sharpness, and any time the camera was moving it was highly it was very obvious and other little things like if it doesn't feel if it didn't feel like i was i was watching eastenders other times it felt like not like i was watching a movie but rather i was on set and i was looking at the bit that beautiful bit where he sings the song in a

world of imagination or whatever it's called, and you see the chocolate factory for the first time, you see the beautiful, you know, the land of sweets, where there's candy cane trees and you can eat cream out of the mushrooms growing out of the ground, and when I was a kid looking at this, like this was wonderful, wonderful this was heaven it's like I want to go there this is amazing look at all those sweets this is what a wonderful happy place but because I'd watched it in HD

this false hyper real 2018 interpolated image all I could see was how fake the set was I could see that the trees were plastic that it wasn't edible I could see was how fake the set was, I could see that the trees were plastic, that it wasn't edible, I could see that the green was a sickening plastic green

that you'd have on a cheap pitch and put course, the cream mushroom no longer had wonder, when your one fucking violet what's-her-face or whatever the fuck she calls herself, she breaks open this giant blueberry and tries to eat jam out of it like it looked very sad

so my experience was marred my experience of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was marred by this HDTV thing it's such a stupid thing like I'm sorry that I've even said it to you now. Because if you haven't noticed it.

And you've got a HDTV. It will be all you've noticed. Lord of the Rings looks like a pile of shit. On a HDTV. It's really really. And it makes you. Things I'd never spot. So I was watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

And I had the scene where Gene Wilder is walking down the red carpet for the first time, revealing himself to the public as Willy Wonka. And because the image was so sharp and so perfect and I can see every detail, Gene Wilder's walking along

and he's on a carpet. But because I can see that this is a carpet and it's a grain of carpet and the sheer detail of it is assaulting my eyes I now become aware that the sound of Gene Wilder's footsteps the foley artistry foley artistry is that's the name for how sounds are created in films but Gene Wilder's footsteps didn't match the carpet so he's walking along a fucking carpet but it sounds like he's walking on concrete

I would not have noticed that if I was looking at the original what cunt is texting me on Christmas day no thank you but like the sound of his feet didn't match the texture of the carpet i wouldn't have noticed that if i was looking at the original slightly blurry imperfect 1970s version you know i my my eyes are drawn to

extras in the background it just it destroys. Everything the director tried to do. Like a director's telling a story. The director's telling a visual story. They're guiding your eyes. They're guiding your emotions. They want you to feel a certain way. Through the lens of a fucking camera. And when you filter that through perfect modern HD.

The director's voice kind of disappears. Now you're just an extra on set and everything, you can see the falseness of everything you can see that the costumes are a bit shit you can see when someone's got a fake beard so fuck HD television

so Jesus I sound like a bit of a bahumbug don't I so Jesus I sound like a bit of a bahumbug don't I a little bit of a bahumbug boy on Christmas I don't give a fuck about Christmas I'll be honest em I think it's good it's not good for everybody

it depends here's one thing and I put a warning out on Twitter when it comes to christmas if if you're an adult right and you you live away from home and you've done work on yourself we'll say for your mental health you've grown as a person do you know you've conquered issues with your self-esteem issues with confidence issues with happiness and you are now a stand on your own two feet adult with a life of your own christmas can be very challenging because what happens is we return to our family of origin as it's known as in could be wrong here but there's a type of psychotherapy

called family systems therapy and i believe the term is family of origin the family you came from so there's a danger and christmas is a prime example of this so you're an adult out in the big world and you have your own personality and you've done work on yourself you go back to your family of origin and that experience of being around your family and having your parents there or your brothers and sisters can cause you to emotionally regress to a time when you weren't confident a time when you were anxious a time when you weren't assertive what it can do as well is like depending on your placement in the family let's just say you're the oldest member of the family so one of the things that you would have had as a kid is that you might be a bit domineering you might find that you have to watch yourself that you don't dominate or bully people you might have to be careful that you don't

dismiss people because when you know that's what older brothers and sisters do when you're children but that shit doesn't work too well in the real world so you might have to confront that stuff and get it out of yourself similarly if you're the youngest member of the family and as a child you were used to getting dead arms your older brothers and sisters you know you've been the last in the pecking order all of this stuff that's not going to serve you very well in the real world too because here's what happens when we as humans find a new group of people okay it could be anything it could be a new group in a new workplace it could be a new group of friends It could be a new group in a new workplace.

It could be a new group of friends. If we're not self-aware, often what can happen is the position that we most comfortably find ourselves in that group is the position that we would have been in in our families when we were younger. So if you were older and domineering, you can end up being that person in a new group. That can cause a lot of trouble you know if you're trying to push people around you're not even aware of it or if you're the youngest in your family you can go into a new group and all of a sudden find yourself subordinate or trying to please people or feeling that other people's opinions are more important because you grew up as the baby

and there was older people around you and older people, older children win every time when you're under the age of 10 so we bring this family of origin of our place in it into new groups of people and it's something you have to be aware of and challenge but when you go back home

yeah, at Christmas if you're wondering some people are grand some people go back home yeah at Christmas if you're wondering some people are grand some people go back home and it's fantastic but if you are wondering here today on Stephen's day are you feeling a little bit angry are you feeling anxious

are you feeling less confident did you have a huge big scrap yesterday with a brother or sister or a man there this type of shit do you want to get the fuck away from your family home Did you have a huge big scrap yesterday with a brother or sister or a man there? This type of shit. Do you want to get the fuck away from your family home and go back to Dublin or wherever you're working? Do you know what I mean?

Having your awareness. Most likely the reason these things happen is that you've returned to your family of origin and tools and ways of being and ways of fitting into the group that were relevant when you were a child you may have discarded them now as an adult and now you're back there it can cause regression unhealthy regression doesn't have to not everybody but just have it in your awareness that's probably why you might be feeling a bit irritable today have mindfulness around it and again like i said what my podcast with transaction analysis a few months back once you bring any of this into your awareness you have control over it then do you know so there's a test for you if yesterday you found yourself slipping back into a

an unhelpful childhood role have it in your awareness today and try and challenge it and what that would mean really is don't take the bait. If a sibling says something or does something or acts a certain way. And this for you triggers an emotional reaction. Whether this reaction is anger or subordination. Or to react, to clap back. Catch it in yourself and don't go there. Because you don't have to because you're a fucking adult now. These are all unconscious processes do you know

22 fucking minutes talking out of my hoop it's a live podcast this week my guest is the absolutely magnificent Tara Flynn Tara is a comedian

voiceover artist she's a legend she's also an activist she was hugely important in bringing about the early awareness of repeal the 8th the fight for

getting abortion for people in Ireland Tara was instrumental in that she was one of the first public voices to really step up and bring the conversation to

wider Ireland you know so Tara's a legend and she's funny and she's really interesting and she's a pal and she's class

so I'm gonna be playing that interview for ye in a while before I do that I think we'll have our ocarina pause I don't know where the fucking cunt is hold on I don't know where it is

and the microphone has gone upside down what do I have I'll tell you what What do I have? I'll tell you what I have. I have one of those really powerful butane lighters. Like a storm lighter. So I'll try and play it at and not set fire to the microphone. So for Christmas we'll have a very speciallighter pause instead of the ocarina.

The reason we do this is because there might be some digital adverts. So this is like a warning so you don't get surprised by an advert. Here is the stormlighter pause. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH. Thank you. and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. On April 5th, you must be very careful, Margaret.

It's a girl. Witness the birth. Bad things will start to happen. Evil things of evil. It's all for you. No, no, don't. The first omen. I believe the girl is to be the mother. Mother of what?

Is the most terrifying. Six, six, six. It's the mark of the devil. Hey! Movie of the year. It's not real, it's not real. What's not real? Who said that?

The first omen. Only in theaters April 5th. Oh yeah. listen to that that's not bad is it pure blue flame so that was the storm lighter pause for Christmas

or Stephen's Day whatever the fuck yeah I'm not mad about Christmas I tell you why I just don't like the way everything like shuts down

now look fair enough people need days off that's fantastic that's brilliant but it just feels like it's a bit of an apocalypse Now, look, fair enough, people need days off. That's fantastic, that's brilliant. But it just feels like it's a bit of an apocalypse. An apocalyptic feeling that makes me feel uneasy.

So I do, I like it when shit gets back to normal and stuff as regular hours. I'll tell you one thing that I'm grateful for. The one thing that gets on my goat about Christmas is when it's Christmas, the period between Christmas and New Year's, you just never know what day it is. You don't know what day it is because Christmas Day, it never has a day. It's Christmas fucking day. And every year this is the case. And it feels like I've been hit into the head by the mallet of life. What it takes, I have to readjust myself back,

to knowing what day it is, but at least now, because, my podcast comes out on a Wednesday, I have the gift of knowing, today is fucking Wednesday, because my podcast comes out, so fuck off Christmas,

fucking with my, interpretation of days, and the day after, tomorrow, that's going to be be Thursday so it's grand so for the first time on on this planet

I I know my days at Christmas before I go into the live podcast this podcast is sponsored by you the listener

okay it is funded by you, the listener. Okay? It is funded by you, the listener, via the Patreon page. Patreon.com forward slash TheBlindBoyPodcast. If you would like to contribute, if you want to be a patron of this podcast, if you like this podcast and you're like, I like what Blind Boy's doing. He's doing this for free

if i met blind boy in real life would i buy him a coffee would i buy him a pint once a month if the answer to that is yes there's a way for you to do it sign up to the patreon page and you can become a patron of this podcast and buy me the equivalent of a cup of coffee or a pint or whatever once a month and that keeps me going keeps the podcast going pays my bills i'm i'm a happy camper and it's a suggested it's suggested patronage suggested donation everyone gets the same podcast whether you pay for it or not um some people some people can't afford it so if you're if you can't afford it and you pay for it it's like you're paying for that other person who can't i like the model i do like the model anything else i have to say tara has a podcast who tara i'm going to be interviewing in a couple of minutes she has a podcast

called Tara Naya go and listen to it it's fantastic em ok God bless I'll talk to you next week I'll have some hot takes em

I'm going to bring on my guest eh she's a comedian she's an activist she's a fucking. She's an activist. She's a fucking legend. It's Tara Flynn. How are you, Tara? Hello, Blind Boy.

How are you? I am unreal. How are you getting on? Because you're after banning yourself from Twitter. Yeah, I banned myself from Twitter. How were you finding that? Is it as amazing as I imagine it is? It is pretty amazing.

It's been weird work-wise. It's been weird in terms of audience, because that was pretty much where I... Because I've been doing work on repeal and all of that in the last few years, but as we all have, but it's... Forgive yourselves if you yelled at it, but thank you. But it meant that I wasn't focusing on work as much as I could have.

And so Twitter was a real way to engage with people, and that's gone. So that has been an interesting absence. But there's also an absence of people sitting there all day going to bait me. And that's been fine. Yeah. Like, what was it that made you... Was it the general addiction of Twitter?

Or was it the level of abuse that was being thrown at you? Or just a myriad of all those things together? It was a few of those things together. I mean, I loved Twitter, but I had a kind of a healthy attitude to it. I used it for activism. I used it for jokes. It was great for connecting with people.

But there was an absolute shit ton of abuse. And it's not just the stuff that people say. It's that that level of energy is being expended at getting online to tell you that it's like um there were a few i mean um there were a few moments after directly after the referendum in may where i was afraid to leave the house because people would say does it ever come offline well you're always offline yeah so you know it that that stuff and the fact that people have created this avatar of you

they don't know you, they don't even know your work they've just made this avatar of you online that they want to hate so I hope I provided a public service in terms of providing a punch bag but it's nice not to be punched all day long too like you've got a podcast now

I do yeah which is class it's a good crack but do you not miss being on Twitter to promote the podcast yeah I do I do because I went from

having oh listen now it's lessons this is a schooling yeah I mean it would be brilliant to have thousands and thousands of followers

which I did on Twitter and you know I'm having to build from the ground up but there's something there's a lovely challenge in that too I have, there'll be one million people listening to this so can you tell

everybody what is the name of your podcast Christ no messing, it's called and I suppose this is a feature of post referendum and trying to figure things out again. It's called Taranoia.

Oh, hello, 10 fans. Thank you so much. See, we're building from the ground up, but we're in it together. And I love you for that. It's called Taranoia because, you know, you talk a lot about anxiety, but I have my own special brand of fear and insecurity. Oh, Christ.

We all have it. But mine is worse. And it obviously intersects with paranoia. Yeah, it does, definitely. Yeah, that sounds like a great time. It's a great time. And that's why Twitter was a bad place to be. When you're sitting there with your shoulders up going,

I think I'll just log on. Maybe drop the shoulders and go, maybe I'll go for a walk. Maybe I'll think of what the next podcast will be or ring someone and see if they'd like to come on. Will you please like and subscribe to Tara's podcast? Ah, thank you. No, because that's...

It's essential because I'd love to not be on Twitter and I just can't. I know. Yeah, it is a loss in that way. Louise O'Neill, she hasn't been on Twitter in six months and I was talking to her the other day and she's like yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it is. It's very hard to describe and it's like

you know I hate to say it but the abuse is gendered. No it's not no it's not I'm talking out of my own political way. What a wanker but so you get extra stuff on top of what

of course you're going to get abuse you've got a shit ton of followers so you're going stuff on top of what... I mean, of course you're going to get abuse. You've got a shit ton of followers, you're going to get loads of abuse. But it's not just the abuse that you'd expect as a comedian or for the work that you do, which is like, you're stupid, you're not funny. It goes into really personal stuff. And just...

That takes away from your creativity then. Absolutely. Because all you're doing on there, you might go on and say, hey, here's a picture of my cat. You fucking bitch. You're a fucking cat. Fuck, what about homelessness, you prick?

Oh. Jesus Christ. And it's like, yeah, homelessness is a terrible thing. And let's figure it out. Also, cats, you know. But they spend, I tell you a fucking,, homelessness is a terrible thing. And let's figure it out. Also, cats, you know, exist. But they spend, I tell you a fucking, I tell you a mad one. Limerick Animal Welfare adopted a bunch of cats from Turkey, you know.

Oh, I saw that documentary, the Istanbul documentary. Yeah, so they took some Turkish cats and they were really proud of it. Like, yeah, we got these cats from Turkey. We have them in Limerick now. Leg the post what about the irish cats for real look the second you go online the second you're in public you're gonna get some kind of criticism like you you are but it's very different from being swarmed or targeted yeah or a group even if it's a small group because it goes goes in different it used to sort of vary it was always different every day was different who would it be today the three madsers or will it be

all of america telling me that i'm a race traitor because my husband's african-american so um which one of those joys will it be so it became not a good place for me to be. Did you become a fan of the black button? Oh yeah, God, straight away. And I would always say to people, because there's this brilliant, I say brilliant because it's been really effective for the people it's effective for,

but it's really cynical. This whole thing that everyone has to debate everybody and you don't. No. You don't owe anyone your time. And the whole thing, you're a coward everybody and you don't no you don't owe anyone your time and the whole thing you're a coward if you block what are you doing on twitter well like if i go to the pub and someone taps me on the shoulder and says you're shit i can choose to leave the pub or i can say to the bartender this is happening and see if they want to act on it and nobody would mind nobody if someone come up to you in a pub and give the amount of abuse that you would get online in a pub yeah most people around there would go, this person needs to be asked to leave.

Yeah. Most rational people would. But when it, suddenly when it's online, it's like, no Tara, you must stay in the pub and so must he, and you must debate and we must be able to, we must all get to watch. Here in this pub, here in this pub known as the marketplace of shit ideas, we are going to stay until the bitter end until one of you dies from bleeding through the eyes through debate

it's not like I know I would say one sixteenth of the amount of abuse I would get if I was a woman I get my abuse online but not as much as I'd get if I was sure I know myself even if I retweet a woman the level of abuse

that comes in just from that act, you know? You prick with your no cats. What I've found, I used to not block, because I used to think, oh, they deserve to be heard and all of this. And then I started to realise, then I started to realise, Jesus, no, if I get called a prick 16 times a day,

I'm trying to enjoy my dinner, and it's like, I'm worried, now it's like I I get called a prick 16 times a day, I'm trying to enjoy my dinner, and it's like, I'm worried. Now it's like I've been called a prick 16 times, and my fish fingers taste less nice than they were. Do you know? But what I started to... Not that they're prick fingers. I started to realize that my job, my actual job and how I earn a living is social media.

So if someone is screaming and roaring at me, honest, that's the emotional labor of my job. Yeah. and how I earn a living is social media. So if someone is screaming and roaring at me on it, that's the emotional labour of my job. And I can choose how much emotional labour I want and I don't want that much. So I just block the cunts. Well, that's true. But also, I mean, that's exactly right. Your job is not to deal with whatever is going on for them that day.

You don't have to take that. And it's like, we've all seen it where, you know, we might be friends with someone on social media for a bit and then something goes wrong with something we disagree with and these mad standards everyone seems to have is like you've got to be all the way this or all the way that and if you fuck up in one direction at all it's like um actually you know i think um dogs are okay fuck you i thought you were a cat guy! You know, and it's like, you know, I think block straight away and just go,

if the person arrives in an abusive way, there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go, and that's not a discussion, so, yeah, let it go. There's another thing, I've been doing this for a while now and it works too, so if someone throws abuse at me and goes uh all the

music you've ever made is shit what i would do is i'd look at the comment and i'd go there's a man called aaron from awfully and aaron from awfully thinks everything i've made is shit i'm all right with that do you know what i mean when you're reading when you're personally when you give it aaron might think callplay are amazing. Yeah. You know, so you can't. It's so subjective. And that's the thing, like, if it's your work, and that's part of the deal.

Like, I mean, you know, if someone goes to a gig you do or you make a video, you put it out there, not everyone's going to like it, and that is fine. And every now and again, they'll take the time to at you to tell you about that and that's also fine, it's really depressing but it's fine, you expect it when someone is just telling you your shit because they're having a shit day, you don't have to deal with that

yeah, and another thing I've realised too is I get loads of criticism online but I get legitimate criticism usually people who are giving me legitimate criticism they tend to do it via direct message yeah it's private it's helpful yeah it's like I didn't like this thing you said here's why and I love that that's really respectful and I grow and learn from it but sometimes if someone's excessively angry especially if it's about something to do

with creativity what it tells me is that's how hard they are on themselves when they're trying to create something and when I view it through that lens of sadness I then have a bit of compassion for them and I don't get angry You're a better person than me Blind Boy, honestly, I'm over it I used to be like that, but

yeah, I've become a hardened, cruel, you wouldn't know it by the sparkly trousers, but I'm a hardened woman now. Fucking fair play but again, like I i said this is why please subscribe to tara's podcast because if someone's not using social media those subscribers on a podcast are the lifeblood really you know yeah and i mean the thing is i'm actually and this might sound weird but i'm actually really loving the people who are finding it by themselves and the people who are writing to me and saying that they're getting something from it.

And, you know, the first episode's kind of strange unless you live in Ireland, but I had to do it. I had to say where I was at, you know, what had happened post the repeal referendum, why I was making a podcast, all that. The rest of them sort of rolled from there. But the first one had to be made, but I kind of wouldn't start there, very.

But, yeah yeah I think one of my favourite ones is actually I brought my husband in and we talked about race I threw myself under the bus but we might come back to that but yeah so that's number nine start with number nine where I talk about what a prick I am Come here Tara what's the crack with

Protestants? No I'm actually well placed to answer this. Go on. I was brought up Catholic but I was brought up in a town called Kinsale in County Cork

which was the last garrison town in Ireland. Is Kinsale the one that was stolen by Algerian pirates? No. Baltimore. That was Baltimore. But I believe the ship, when they went to the king to ask if... They had to go to London to ask the king if they'd go after the people that stole the pirates to get the people back, the Baltimore people back. And the king said no.

Yeah. But Kinsale, they left from Kinsale for that, I think. So do you know about that story? You know that, don't you? The entire population of Baltimore was kidnapped by Algerian pirates Yeah It's true I'm sorry but. It's not funny

It's you know it's only funny when you think of people from Baltimore now because you know like they're kind of posh and same with Kinsale you just imagine them. Well now it's all Germans who came to Ireland in the 70s to make goat's cheese and have open relationships but What is it with cork and that? Germans who came to Ireland in the 70s to make goat's cheese and have open relationships. What is it with Cork and that?

Honestly, I know this. I know this. This is true. This is true. And I put it in a show that I did. This is absolutely true. But do you remember? You don't.

You're all too young. But do you remember the 70s? Anyway, in the 70s. In the 70s, what happened was, well, first of all, it was quite a creative place and all that, but there was this rumour that was put out by a German newspaper that in the event of a nuclear holocaust, prevailing south-westerly winds would whisk any fallout magically away from West Cork. It was where Jim Jones, you know, the Guyana guy, the cult guy, he was considering coming to...

I mean, I don't know, he didn't survive anything. You know, they all drank the Kool-Aid. I don't know why he was worried about fallout. But anyway, probably wanted the goat's cheese. It's very good. It's very good in West Cork. Anyway, so they all came there to live this kind of very free, open life and avoid the mushroom clouds, I guess.

Fucking hell. There was no truth to this, but it was in a German newspaper. And then Cork just happened to have the English market with a perfect amount of people willing to buy loads of goat cheese. There's that. Well, they would actually

buy the goats themselves and try to start making the goat cheese. They'd have their own independent goat cheese businesses and then there were a lot of second-hand goats knocking around.

Did these Germans have any experience of goat cheese making? No. They just went straight into it? They were usually kind of corporate people, leaving the corporate world behind. In fact, our next...

So I grew up in the countryside outside Kinsale, and so we were in what used to be an old kind of schoolhouse. But next door, what would have been the oldest estate, Glendonine Estate, there was this woman there. She was absolutely incredible. And she used to make, my sister and I she was really this was their country their summer house they lived they were from Vienna and this was their summer house was this old Georgian house the country and when we'd go up um this is why I

know about Protestants because she would make my sister and I curtsy when we went into the house we were like but sure we're going to hell. Is there any point in this curtsying? So yeah, there was a really mixed group of people. And actually it was kind of a cool place to grow up because the people, as they say, and it's the joke about Kinsale, there's the haves and the have-yots. And we were like total, like bog standard middle class. We were in the middle. We lived in the countryside, but we didn't have a farm.

So we'd come in on the school bus with the kids who lived out in the countryside, and we'd be, you know, everyone went to school together. That was the thing. People who had yachts and people whose parents were unemployed, everyone was in the same school. So that was kind of an interesting background. So it was very, very mixed. But yeah, so then the Protestants went to band and grammar.

Yeah. So yeah, Cork's got a lot of Protestants. My ma claimed that she used to be able to recognise Protestants by their walk. And... Away from the parish church. Yeah. And her other thing is that... What is it? Protestants are just as bad at drinking as Catholics,

except they know how to hide it. It tended to be, and I do remember the tail end of, there were still kind of people called Colonel this or whatever. I remember the very tail end of that. There was about a hundred. But they would drink sherry. Yeah. But like all day. And it's grand because it's sherry. It's sherry. It's grand because it's sherry with these sherry it's grand because it's sherry with these little

little glasses but it was that sort of an accent a good girl I remember all that yeah and I remember it's really weird

because it's mad how a little bit further back my mum who grew up in in Doris down in down near Bantry very very small village

and there were a lot there was a lot of gintry as they called them and my mom says no but she i remember having this conversation with her and just going wow it's amazing how even a generation on we we sort of see that stuff more and she said no they were really lovely to us they'd let us come in sometimes and sit at the table it's my isn't that mad or the older generation just thought the protestants were like had two heads and completely different?

They were definitely... Anyone from West Cork here? Yay! A few small West Cork people. And do you know any Protestants? One or two? I've nothing against Protestants. Like, who the fuck am I? I practically am a Protestant. I went down to the late and said that fucking

communion wafers aren't the body of Christ. Like, that's ultimate Protestant lingo, like. Yeah. Their whole shtick is protesting that. I mean, Mum also talks about how one of the reasons she knew that she probably didn't have a deep faith was because she was told that

her next-door neighbours down in Durres, who were Protestants, and they weren't wealthy ones at all, they were farmers, and so they were very, very close, the two families, and she was told, you know, they were going to hell. And that was a deal-breaker for her. That was a big thing, the poor old Protestants. Oh, they're a lovely family, but they're going to hell.

They're going to hell. That was a thing, yeah. There's an interesting thing in that, There's certain strands of Protestantism. I don't know why we've been talking about Protestantism for 15 fucking minutes, but... You started it, but I'm delighted. I feel at home. If you look at some of the Calvinism and things like that, they got obsessed with food

and food and sin and bodily passions. So there's a lot of food that we eat, like cornflakes is one, and graham crackers and cream crackers. Think of of food that we eat like cornflakes is one and graham crackers and cream crackers think of bland food that we eat every day. Protestants invented it as a way to not get the horn. Seriously

cornflakes and shit like that is like what can I eat that's so fucking bland that it won't possibly start any degree of sexuality within me. But top it off with a bit of goat's cheese. See, there you go now. And see what happens.

And they make chorizo. There's that gubern chorizo down in West Cork, isn't there? Are you laughing at my pronunciation? We've all... Chorizo, isn't it? What is it? I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm from Cork, not from Spain. I make a type

of Spanish chorizo stew, which is like a... Prod. No, it's like a... It's like coddle on a boner. Have you ever eaten coddle? I've been living in Dublin nearly 30 years. I've never had coddle. And I'm vegetarian now, so those days have gone. Who's eaten coddle? I've been living in Dublin nearly 30 years. I've never had coddle. And I'm vegetarian now, so those days have gone.

Who's eaten coddle here? Unironically. Oh. I'd eat coddle if you fried the sausage first. Or is that grounds for crucifixion? Yeah, that's not coddle. You'd get lashed against the spire. So, you were involved in... Now, this is peak Celtic Tiger, I think.

Oh, God. There was a programme called The Marbegs, right? Yeah. Which you were involved in. But, like, it's one of the... It's pure Celtic Tiger RTE going... It was pre-Celtic Tiger. Was it?

Oh, yeah. What are we talking? Like 91, 92? Oh, no. Celtic Tiger for me is 90... Ah, that's the Celtic Tiger. Celtic Tiger is 96 onwards, isn't it? A little after.

Is it? Yeah, the kind of... It was a cub. A cub maybe in 96, 97. 96 is where we started. In that they were able to make more bags. There was a bit of a budget. But yeah, they really went crazy around 98, 99.

The idea of it, it's like someone up in RTE going, fuck it, man, this Teletubbies thing. This Teletubbies thing is doing well. Like, maybe we should get in on that. Yeah, yeah. And what's the whole shtick with the Teletubbies? Well, they're like these giant, like, funny babies

and live in this fantasy land. Yeah, let's do that, but instead of a fantasy land it's Cork it wasn't Cork it fucking was no it was a magical castle so it's a magical

in an indeterminate place and actually I played the voice of Molly and Molly Molly was actually I had to Dublin it up a bit

she was meant to be sort of a South Dublin thing and then Rasa was from Cork Rasa yeah Rasa was from Cork Rasa was from Cork actually I had to Dublin it up a bit. She was meant to be sort of a South Dublin thing. And then Rasa was from Cork. Rasa, yeah. Rasa was from Cork. Rasa was from Cork.

Yeah. You always got the sense of Rasa with her skinning up snakey one skinners, you know? He had that vibe about him. Yeah, Molly... What were they up to? What used to do? Molly and Rasa were Moorbegs. So if you don't speak Irish,

Moor is big, byog is small for the Protestants out there. But Morbegs, so they were these very big creatures. They were like, if people have ever seen the Honey Monster, if you don't remember the Morbegs. They're in Fota Island now down in Cork. That's what they did with them. Oh, God. That's actually, I'm going to have nightmares.

Fucking poor old old Morbegs. I'm going to have nightmares about that beside a river otter they came to learn the growing tree which was I guess a source of fuel in Morbeg land was dying and they had to come to our realm because it wasn't another planet or anything but they came to our realm to learn

about growing who conceived this? Frances Kay was the writer. She came up with the whole idea. There were these lovely kind of cute characters but then they lived with magicians. They lived with these adult magicians and it was all totally above board.

And it was great. It was actually brilliant. It was brilliant the first year and then the second year the kids knew because it went out and they bring kids in to kind of play with the Morbigs or have chats. Were you inside a Morbig? No, so I did the voice.

So there were dancers in these suits, and then these heads. And they were way bigger than the person, I'm guessing. Way bigger than the person, so they'd add an extra foot and a half almost onto the person's height, so the dancers all had to be 5'2", and then they became almost 6'0".

They were very big, big, tall Morbigs, but the kids would come in and they go oh it's molly and rosa and when they go up close to the person in the suit all they'd hear would be the motors in the head and they go it's molly and rosa and they do and they go if any of you are here we're sorry that we ruined your childhoods. But yeah, so we would do the voices, we'd use remote controls. The heads were animatronic and we'd use remote controls to operate the mouths and the eyes and the ears and the dancers would do the movements.

So that was something actually, because they couldn't really see out of the suits, we'd have to leave the mouths open a little bit so they could see. So if you ever... There aren't really any more Beggs shows left, but if you ever watch them back, you'll see that Molly and Ross are always talking or saying or doing something when they're moving, like,

ah, there it is! So we could leave the mouth open so they could see. So I was thinking, like, for this one, I didn't want to make it too repeal-centric because I'm sure you're sick in the head of being... It's an amazing thing that the Eighth Amendment was repealed and that... And you were absolutely

fucking instrumental in it. Well... I know you don't like... You don't like saying that, but genuinely... I only heard about the Eighth Amendment because of you. Do you know what I mean? And I know you.

The absolute, complete male privilege. But a lot of people, the people who were involved in it were there for ages, but a lot of just people who wouldn't be caring about it, heard about it through you and the stuff that you were doing. Well, it's funny because when we talk about a grassroots movement, this is what we mean. Everyone did their bit. And if your bit was having a bit of a platform that people knew you for something else, like comedy or whatever it was, Roisin Ingle, her platform in the Irish Times, using those platforms and saying, okay look, fuck it, we don't talk about this but it happened to me but it happened to me.

It happened to me. And then take the consequences, which can be, you know, they weren't always great, and a lot of them were bad, but ultimately it got people talking. And then people who weren't engaging with the idea that there was this amendment that was stopping us reforming abortion laws here, or reproductive rights in general, because it wasn't just about abortion,

then we got to reach them, and there was a different kind of conversation but the conversations had to be have had on a political level which I wouldn't have been able to do and they had to be had with people currently in crisis which people like the abortion rights campaign the abortion support network they were doing yeah I really had the cold face so there are so many strands and it's really not being self-deprecating when I say we all did it together. Literally every badge that was worn, every conversation that was had, because there were loads of people that I wasn't able to reach.

My platform had real limitations, but then someone had a conversation with their auntie, and then discovered that she was on board all along because we just weren't talking about it. And then there were people whose very firm beliefs will never change, and that's also okay. But now that choice will be available for people who have to make it

Yeah, they still don't have to do it How do you feel about like how Fianna Gael not just Fianna, well okay just Fianna Gael a lot of politicians but Fianna Gael how do you okay, just Fine Gael. A lot of politicians, but Fine Gael. How do you feel about how they latched onto it quite late? I mean, I talk about it in terms of a sort of a romantic comedy

where it's like, you know, you've given up all hope. And then they show up and you go, you're here. Because you just didn't expect it. And it's kind of like we needed everyone they show up and you go, you're here because you just didn't expect it and it's kind of like we needed everyone to show up and we just thought they weren't going to we thought loads of them weren't going to so when some people came and I have to name people like Kate O'Connell

and Simon Harris and as much as we can critique Finnegan on other things they feckin' showed up on this issue they're grand oh blind boy how blind you are um but you do have to praise the bridge as you cross it and when they showed up they really showed up and they took risks within their uh their milieu which is a very conservative place and i mean for a long time we were told well you know without x or y party without x or y

personality you know don't hang around too much with the far left. Don't, you know, we were told all kinds of tone policing. You're too much on this side. You're not enough on that side. All that. We were like, everyone's going to have to show up for this to work. And they fucking did. And, you know, fair play to people like Breed Smith, who've been there for a long, long time.

Ruth Coppinger. You know, they really don't get enough credit they were there when it was about Claire Daly standing up all the time putting bills trying to put bills through but we needed everyone to show up and even in those very conservative you know spaces they they did and that's how it happened you know but yeah it is like where were you what took you so long traffic was a bitch. I think that's from one of Robert Altman's films, but I kept thinking of that line.

Where were you? Traffic was a bitch. It's like, okay, well, you're here now. Get up the front and get these bills across and get the right legislation for us. Just your general feeling, because I'm suspicious of Fine Gael. I tell you what I feel. I feel of Fine Gael and I tell you what I feel I feel the Fine Gael are after figuring out

that they can appear to be like woke and cool and then not do anything with the housing crisis you know but still be woke like is it do you get in that vibe? I feel that they're just like

preying upon naivety and they're just hoping that people who swing kind of in a liberal way I think what they want is people who are 21 or 22 now and who are woke for retweets and then they'll get to 25, 26 and they'll see their paycheck

and go, fuck it, I'd love to pay way less taxes, fuck the poor and then they're going to be Fine Gael voters. But they got in the door through that little fake wokeness. Look, it's a possibility, but that's why we cannot forget how repeal happened, which was grassroots. And everything, honestly, that has to be the new model for everything. They work for us.

Whoever's in power works for us. And we can keep that pressure on and I think I never really believed that until I mean marriage equality was a glimmer of it this really the way it worked the way it worked across parties all of that when it finally became when it finally went into Leinster House because for the longest time it wasn't happening

there and that we all remember that now there won't be the same personalities because that's the nature of it but if different voices come forward we all know that if Now, there won't be the same personalities because that's the nature of it, but if different voices come forward, we all know that if we row in behind them, it'll happen.

I really believe, I might be naive now and I know that there's always pushback whenever, whenever something goes forward a little bit in terms of rights

or, you know, there's a little bit of pushback or a lot of pushback or there's another kind of people go, I'm tired, I'm sick of hearing

these woke people. Let's be racist instead. it's like and then suddenly that gets a bit of weird traction yeah but we we can't let that dampen us we have to go okay any little i i use it it's a very oversimplified analogy but i used it for appeal and i think it can work for anything if you clean you know getting the house clean one corner at a time one room at a time if you just clean that corner or feels too overwhelming there's so much that we need to fix we all know that and that there doesn't seem to be a lot of motivation to fix from the corridors of power now fair play they're focusing on one thing at the moment and because this in this week that this podcast is being recorded there's the the health committee on repeal so actually someone was asking about that.

The question was, yeah, the health committee and also about the fear that the national maternity hospitals, due to the influence of the Sisters of Charity, will not carry out their duties. Yeah, it's a tricky one. And obviously, you know, we came up against this a lot. And here's the weird thing, Something I need to remind people. I'm a feckin' eejit.

You know, when people call me an activist, I just open my big mouth. So I don't have any power. I had a bit of a platform. But it wasn't a massive one. Like, I wasn't on RTE every week. Or, you know, I used the platform I had, and it kind of grew from there.

But it's like, you know, I am an eejit. I'm not an expert I'm not a political commentator and I don't you know I had to learn about reproductive rights law I had to learn a bit about medicine even so that I could because the others were allowed to say well I feel very strongly about this and

we had to have all the facts and figures so you know I'm sort of out of my comfort zone even commenting on those things but we did get asked a lot about conscientious objection and what people think. And it's like, well, clearly, if it's against someone's beliefs, they would have to not have to be forced to. I mean, I can't see how someone would give good care if they were forced to do something. But they do have to refer and make sure that the care is available somewhere else. And that's what I would worry about.

We heard the Savita story that someone would think they were doing the right thing by disallowing this care. And for anyone who's been in that situation, you know that by the time you go and seek help, you need that help. You don't go and ask for the help until you are certain. So you don't need an intervention or someone telling you what you think. You might need more information. You might change your mind, but usually you know by the time you ask. And so listening to some of the health committee stuff

yesterday where people were going, this three day cooling off period, please if there is still time, the podcast will probably go out long after we have legislation i hope but um because we need it urgently but please put pressure on your tds grassroots gang uh please put pressure on your tds three-day cooling off period it's too impractical for people and it's also it adds distress and for people who say you know they want it as early as possible they're against late later term abortions which you know obviously those are never ideal they're usually when when people have a wanted pregnancy that's gone wrong so as early as possible a three-day waiting period

doesn't add anything it doesn't help so in fact it causes distress so please keep pressure on for things like that conscientious objection absolutely people have to be allowed to live by their beliefs and and but they have to refer to the best care like that's even something that exists in uh like a psychotherapist if they if a client comes to a psychotherapist and they disagree fundamentally with something that client has done yeah they have a duty of care to tell the client and go i'm sorry i can't counsel you because it's bringing up stuff in me. So they have to refer. So, I mean, it exists already in certain things.

Yeah, and it exists for lots and lots of things, and it would exist for this, and I think rightly so. And, you know, the idea, that's the whole point of repealing the Eighth Amendment and giving people back their autonomy is that no one be forced to do something they cannot, they cannot in all conscience or they cannot cope with. It's not in them to do.

When you're brought onto television, right, for interviews and shit, what annoys you? Brought on, like brought out of the Moorbeg's cupboard. Do you know what I mean? Hello? Who's there? The one thing I'm

Johnny I haven't seen you since you were a boy. That sounded really creepy. The one thing I'm conscious of when I have a guest on right is to go how does the media treat that person like what continual thing like if you're brought on to RTE,

do you ever get pissed off about certain things that you're continually asked or expected to be a spokesperson on or things like that? Well, first of all, I really don't get asked. Why? Have you pissed off that many people? I think I'm just a contentious person now. A loose cannon.

A loose cannon. A hussy. Well, I'm a hussy because the thing is even the, and this is something that we do need to talk about a little bit that even the

like I wasn't in together for yes I was always just someone who told their story so a lot of the criticism I was getting was like you're trying to raise your platform

or you're trying to it's like oh my god if you knew how little the phone was fucking ringing for anything other than will you come down and do a talk

yes absolutely I'll do a talk and in a way it freed me up to do that fucking brilliant at that jesus you were flying up and on the country to every little repeal go i felt like that was what had to be done and um you know it's really interesting so i didn't didn't really get asked and the odd time now it's starting to come back again and i'll be asked to do things that are nothing to do with repeal which is also like oh shit i'm a person this is great you know I have other things and a story

one particular story to tell but what is happening though is I am turning down punditry gigs because I think they're really hollow and I think they've fucked things up royally I think people going on to just go I think this well I think the opposite

has fucked everything. Yeah. And so I don't want to be part of that. But it's a great way to make someone's, like, Emma DeBerry, who was on yesterday, said the same thing. Like, she would go on to a show to talk about race, and then all of a sudden they have someone on with the opposite view. And it's like, first of all, why is that person on? And now I look like an extremist. Yeah.

You're forced into that corner. But also, you don't, there's no discovery. There's no discussion. It's like, first of all, why is that person on? And now I look like an extremist. Yeah. You're forced into that corner. But also, you don't, there's no discovery. There's no discussion. It's just theatre. You could pre-script them. We could all pre-script them now. So I think things like podcasts, where you get to tease things out, you get to have a discussion with someone,

you get to ask someone a question they wouldn't get asked on that list of questions that are safe. A tiny amount of time to fucking answer and just people roaring at each other, yeah. Yeah, and I think there's also something in, I think it's in the US, I mean, again, not an expert, this is just something I heard and it could be wrong,

but I think the length of time in the US, the maximum length of time in the US that people get to expand on something is seven minutes. And that within seven minutes, you can't fuck up, you can't get wrong-footed, so you can't get wrong footed so you can't get called out on a lie especially if the if the moderator is doing what a lot of my moderators do this day and just these days and just let people say everything and not go hang on is that true or

hang on where did you get that fact or hang on isn't that racist you know or sexist whatever it is and they're not doing that so it's like when people say let's hear it all out it's like well that's fine but you have to have some kind of moderation if that's not happening then i i think i think it's more damaging than it is discovery and it's something we really fucking lost like i mean yeah even if do you ever see like u.s presidential debates from like the late 70s and it's two presidents being really intelligent and talking for an hour about boring shit that no one wants to see? Yeah. They used to be like that.

US presidential debates used to be about politics and policy and only people who were engaged and interested would tune into it. And even anything from the 70s, political debate was more like a podcast where people were having a conversation, people got a chance to speak, and it was a true sense of talking about the issues. I think what made it toxic is the role of advertising. Possibly. In America, fuck me, the amount of ads they have in America.

So the seven minutes, you mean, the sound bites? If you've got a half hour... Who watches fucking TV anymore? In Ireland, a half hour show will have one set of adverts in america you'll have maybe four or five sets of adverts six possibly even at the start and they're basically bound down to the advert so that seven minute business is probably here's an ad for razors now can we talk about black lives matter again yeah very possibly very but the thing with those hour-long ones was that people would then,

because they're human beings, which they should be, they would fuck up. They would fuck up and they'd be called on it and they could reflect on it and there'd be a discussion. There aren't discussions anymore and now there are just professional contrarians going on

and wanking off about what tissues are called. And it's like, that doesn't add anything. And it's like, honestly, going on and wanking off about what tissues are called. Ah, yeah. And it's like, that doesn't add anything. And it's like, honestly, it's got to be like, you've got to either, I think, either have lived experience or some kind, or be a public servant. But this whole role of contrarian,

it's just, I think it's created a really dangerous atmosphere, honestly, where no one knows what's true. You and I were talking... Ah, thanks. Very odd that that was just a backroom clap. What's that about? It's like the light, the level of light here,

it's as if someone's in the light, they won't clap. But we were talking before, the last time we were having gentle pints, you said something fantastic to me, which was we were talking about platforming and deplatforming. Yeah. And you gave me a beautiful, succinct way to... We were kind of going, how do you decide who should be platformed and who shouldn't?

And you said, as soon as a person is arguing for one group to have less rights, that's where the platform stops. That would be my line. And like, deplatforming is only, it's like, so deplatforming isn't, they shouldn't speak at all. Deplatforming is just, not in my house. Yeah.

So we're back to the pub analogy. The fucking pub. It's real life again. I was thinking about did you see Alex Jones recently? He got kicked off Twitter and all of that, right? So Alex Jones was booted off Twitter because he said that

victims of a school shooting were crisis actors. Okay? Children who'd been murdered were crisis actors and it was a conspiracy. And I was in support of him getting kicked off Twitter. Mainly what I'm in support of is definitely removing the person's ability to earn money.

I think that's really important. When you de-incentivise the money, then these people... From the hatred, yeah. Yeah, it's when money's involved and they're making money from hatred. I've no problem with fucking PayPal or Stripe just going, fuck that, not here. But if Alex Jones was doing this and someone on Twitter was arguing with me going,

he has a right to say this. It's a free thing. And I was thinking, let's take it off the internet for a second and let's just say it's a small pub in a village in Tipperary, right? So we're in a small pub in a village in Tipperary. Everyone knows each other in the community and there's been a tragedy in a village in Tipperary, right? So we're in a small pub in a village in Tipperary. Everyone knows each other in the community. And there's been a tragedy in this village.

We'll say a family have just died in a car crash, three children and the mother. Okay. A real fucking tragedy that has affected the entire village. And there's one man called Alex Jones who lives up on a hill, a bachelor. And every Friday, Alex Jones goes into the local pub and he sits down on a table at the end, and he goes, the Ryan's up there, lads, who lost the three children and the wife, you know they were actors, yeah? Most people in the pub would go fucking apeshit, and now imagine the few people that listened to him were going, tell us that one again, and we'll give you a euro. So now you've got Alex Jones from up the hill,

in the pub in Tipperary, talking about the Rhines who just had a tragedy, getting five quid a pop to tell the story about how they're actually mannequins. Most rational people would kick the living fuck out of him, and the guards would be looking about how to arrest him. And you're not saying he can't drink, or he can't go into pubs. You're just making a choice.

Not here, buddy. Not here. Do it like they did in folk mythology. Go into the forest and roar it into the trunk of a tree. Go fucking King Sweeney on it. One day it'll be made into a racist harp. To use a crude analogy, it's like you can invite someone into your house in good faith,

but if they take a shit in the hallway, you can ask them to leave. I remember, so one of the first times I spoke about de-platforming and I got shit for it from fecund people who consider themselves centrists and they like hear them all out and it's like well like so I'm in an interracial relationship right so uh so basically there was a a nationalist group wanted to have a meeting in a hotel and I said well I won't be going to that hotel again if that meeting goes ahead

I didn't even ring the hotel and say call it off like they wouldn't listen to me anyway who the fuck am I they wouldn't give a shit unless it's 50

or a thousand or whatever the fuck many people but what I did do was just say it on social media like if that goes ahead

how could I because it wasn't me saying don't have it I was saying if that happens I can't in good conscience go there knowing that there's been a meeting there and there might be one on right now where people are discussing that someone in my family

shouldn't have their rights and is possibly at a you know the very far end of the argument is worth harming. So why wouldn't I say, well, I couldn't go there if that happened. Now, it ended up they cancelled the meeting, but it wasn't to do with, and then everyone was like, you deplatformed those people. And I was like, well, fucking good.

Sorry. Honestly. And it's like, there are some ideas that are dangerous. Some ideas are dangerous and treating them all equally has led us to a dangerous place. And I don't know if people are starting to feel that yet. But I feel it. And it's a very real thing. So it's a very different thing to discuss something that's theoretical to you in a far off distant way because you feel safe.

So you're not being edgy. You're not being edgy or fresh to discuss that sort of dangerous idea because you're safe. You're not being edgy at all. What you're doing though is creating an atmosphere where people are and we've seen it happen and it is happening more likely to be harmed and fuck that. Seriously. be harmed and fuck that seriously um how did you feel about uh the the media how the media made a lot of noise about peter casey recently in his comments well well i feel like the hins, ladies and gentlemen. Ooch, they're on. Ah, yeah, that was more of it. You see, because it's a game to them.

It was the sheer glee of the media. It's a fucking irresponsible game. Ooh, a story. It's really irresponsible. Hugely. And, you know, one of the podcasts that's coming up is, I chat to Eileen Flynn, who's a traveller activist, and, you know, the upset, and it's like, this isn't people taking offence.

This is genuine harm being visited on their community. So it's like, when you hear the upset in her voice, and, you know, you rehumanise people, because it's very easy. One of the things those people are doing, those people who are getting the ears of the media and going, oh, is this button worth pushing? And then they just dehumanize a group further.

And instead of saying, okay, maybe some people have an issue with something a member of that group did once in their life experience, but you cannot generalize about that group in that way. So, but the media just went, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Here's some clicks. Feeding frenzy.

Here's some clicks. Yeah, it's a particularly fucking dangerous one as well because one thing as well that everyone, all of us should be doing is taking ownership within our lifetime how travellers were treated. Yeah. Like when I went

to school when I was a kid, like there was traveller kids in the class who were segregated and treated differently and I saw this from two years of age. So now i as an adult have to truly reappraise genuine racism within myself yes same here unchecked because and it's an important thing it's like we're terrified of the word racism right because it's a bad thing but you can't be too scared of it because if you are then you can't take ownership of it within yourself and yourself and changed, you know? Yeah, we all have prejudices, and I definitely do.

Like, that's episode nine, I've mentioned it before. I basically talk about my own racism. Can we talk about that after the intermission? Of course. Because I want to get into the meat and tooth edge of that. Okay. Racist. Would you like...

Who wants either a piss or a pint? racist would you like who wants either a piss or a pint and if you try both there's a tax alright see you in about 10 or 15 minutes God bless I'm having one can of

one delicious porridge can and I'm mixing it up with San Pellegrino which I learned that off David McWilliams he showed me San Pellegrino the oddest drink in the world, San Pellegrino has an aluminium peel what? yeah San Pellegrino

cans, they've got the peel you have to peel tinfoil off the top of it. Oh. And it's an extra 50p for the pleasure of a mechanical orange. So, what should we talk about now? I'd like to talk about the recent podcast

you did with your magnificent husband, Carl, about race. Okay. Carl, who is an absolute legend, one of the nicest men I've ever met. He is. Who, as soon as I meet him, I latch onto him to find out about very obscure Los Angeles musical things. Yeah, and if you get onto movies, you'll never unlatch, because that's his real nerd place.

But, yeah, he's just that's his real nerd place but yeah he's brilliant but I did an episode of Taranoia recently where I brought Carl in the poor long suffering man when you come in and do my podcast How was he with that? Was he like I'm not sure?

Yeah he's very shy he's not a front of house person he's a sort of a behind the scenes person. He's a writer. So he's like, no, I don't want to be talking to the people. And I went, you just went on LiveLine last week. Did you do it at home? No, we did.

We did that in the Headstuff podcast studios. But he had just been on LiveLine because there's been an upswing in racism everywhere. there's been an upswing in racism everywhere, in overt racism, I guess, because, of course, people of colour will tell you it's never gone anywhere. It's always been there. So he'd been on with Joe Duffy, and I said, sure, if you can go on with Joe Duffy,

you can definitely come on with me. So someone's going, come on, Joe. Yeah, Joe's not here. I'm sorry about that. But so he did come on, and it's not really an interview with him. um but so he did he did come on and it was it's not really an interview with him it's a chat between the two of us because what i wanted him to be there for was like a witness because when we talk about race and you know i made a made a video called racist bmb and i wanted to talk about um what we would call subtle racism you know that background

racism sure i didn't hit anybody over the head with a burning cross sure i'm not being racist at all um and that we we are all racist and particularly in a country like ireland where we grow up seeing so few people of color around definitely they haven't been on our screens till very recently all that you know so that that you that is in us all and until we acknowledge that in you know as gently as we can with ourselves you know so when someone says to you you know that's racist or have a think about that they're not trying to hammer you over the head or make you feel bad it does feel uncomfortable when you acknowledge it in yourself it feels crap especially when you're married to someone of another race.

Poor, poor Carl. But if we don't acknowledge it, we can't change it. So what I did in the podcast was I brought him on and I talked about a time. And I don't know, do you want me to talk about the incident? Absolutely. Yeah, okay. So I threw myself under the bus and here I go again. So basically, years and years ago,

Carl and I had just met, and he told me a story, a very funny story, a family story. It involved him and his mum, and in the course of the exchange that happens, there's a gunshot fired, and the N-word is used. And I thought, well, what a hilarious story. And I had started to do... Yes, it was hilarious, when he told it to Carlos.

This is where we're going. So I tried to incorporate it into some stand-up I was doing at the time about, well, our backgrounds are so different, you know, Grant. So Carl doesn't say anything to me. He doesn't say, don't do it. He doesn't say anything. He lets me go on twice two nights in a row and tell the story now it was to a white audience and they went ha ha ha

lyrics your backgrounds are so different um and I came off feeling really queasy both nights I was like this feels I feel oh I feel terrible I don't want to do it. But I should do it. And this was you using the N-word on stage? Yeah. As reported speech, something my mother-in-law had said. You should try it in 2018. But you see, this is it. I still get people coming up to me. I get comics coming up to me.

And they say, with a bit between their teeth, they're like, why can't I say the N-word? So-and-so told me I could I'm going well I'm not going to tell you you you can't but I'm going to ask you why you'd want to what's it achieving I don't think it's a hilarious punchline to your joke but when I said it but anyway sorry to just to backtrack a bit so after those two nights in a row where I was doing reported speech it was a family story and I was it was in a context all those things people say you can say whatever you want you should be able

to and you're a comedian you should challenge things by saying dangerous things this is what this is why I'm saying I've tested that in my own life I haven't just out there going don't say it oh don't say it we're too scared no I said it and it made me feel sick because I now really properly understand the context of how shit it makes someone feel, of the circumstances under which that word is used to a person of color or let's say the K word to a traveler or any of those other words that people say. You should be able to say anything. You can say anything, you're not going to be taken to prison, but why do you want to? What is it achieving? And I don't think it makes a joke better if you say the, you know, if you're speaking about homosexual people and you use the F word or if you use the M word, and aren't you

supposed to be wordsmiths anyway, comedians? Can't you find other words? And so I don't think we need to fight hard to be able to say anything. I think we need to fight hard to look at, you know, how racist we all are capable of being. I was definitely racist in that moment. I was absolutely unaware of the privilege I had to be able to say any words. Even saying I don't see colour is absolute privilege.

Because you don't have to if you're white. You don't have to. Whereas if you're black, you don't know if you're more likely to be shot in the back if you're a young black man in the US. You know, racism is bad. Yeah, racism is bad. Thanks for those little bits of applause. But what Carl said, when I went to him after those two days,

and this is why I absolutely feckin' adore him, and I get a bit emotional when I talk about him because how he helps me to learn this is how you know the fucking patience of of minorities honest to god waiting for us to catch up and cop on but Carl um I went to him and I said I'm not going to do that story anymore I said I think it needs the word for the rhythm and all that it needs that you know needs it in the context and I said but I can't needs the word for the rhythm and all that. It needs it in the context. And I said, but I can't say that word. And he said, thanks for getting there.

Brilliant. Brilliant. It isn't about people lecturing people or saying, we're so woke. You have to unpack it in yourself you have to look at all the times you've been sexist or racist you know and women can be sexist too you know so we've got to just

it's very uncomfortable though it's not fun it's not fun and I promise you I was blushing all the way through that podcast and I'm blushing a bit now but it's ownership isn't it? It's taking ownership of... Like, it's...

Emma DeBerry was saying it yesterday. Some people who say I'm not racist, it's like, she said what makes you so special that you got to grow up as a white person in a white community and escape that? Yeah. We all grew up with racism around. You know what I mean? We come from a racist society. We were people of colour

Or other Or travellers or whatever So it's part of all of us So take ownership of it Yeah And through that Then you can actually go How can I be better tomorrow

Yeah As opposed to getting Immediately defensive And going I'm not fucking racist You know Because people think racism Is just saying the N word out loud

And supporting the KKK Yeah It's not just that. And there's a mad thing in America, and I don't know if it's as apparent here, but definitely in America, where I think white people in America, when they distance themselves from racism, right,

they're not actually doing it for the love of black people, but they're being classist. Middle-class yanks would view, we'll say, the open use of the n-word and Nazi tattoos as something that the wrong type of white person does. So I'm going to do my racism in a different fashion.

And we do that here with direct provision. Yeah, absolutely. So we don't go around saying the n-word. I mean there are so many things to tackle and I don't want to be the issues guy, but it's come up, and honestly, that is something we do need to tackle here. And I think it's great.

So there's that new drama taken down on RTE. And it's, you know, whatever people think about it as a show, I think it's good, but it's getting people talking about it. People don't even know what direct provision is. No, and that's how the system wants it. Yeah, it's quiet. It's over there. It's, you know, it's disproportionately people of colour in there. And, like, I've said it a million times now,

but that's our Magdalene laundry, you know? That is our Magdalene laundry now. Yes. It totally is, because if we speak to our parents or anyone older about, what was that Magdalene laundry crack like? They're just like I don't know it was beyond the walls we had an idea something wasn't great but we didn't really

know you you knew but you didn't know you knew but you didn't know and I've I actually wrote a piece about that I think in April of this year but it's like that horrible record same as with acknowledging the racism but knowing knowing that you know you might you'd say things like you might end up in the laundry and knowing that was bad but never doing anything it's knowing but not knowing

and then now now having to reckon can't move forward till we reckon with the fact that we did know yeah we did know that inconvenient people were just

disappeared and so we knew but we didn't know and I absolutely agree I think I said it in one of my podcasts I think it is it's exactly like that it is in 20 years time we're but we didn't know and I absolutely agree, I think I said it in one of my podcasts I think it is, it's exactly like that it is in 20 years time we're going to be you know looking back and going

how did we not know but we do know so let's try grassroots gang let's try and do it but like it's like when you talk to older Irish people and they have so much shame about the Magdalene thing and it's like I wish I could have done something thendalene thing and it's like, I wish I could have

done something then. Yeah. They look back. It's like, we now have the opportunity to not be that person in 20 years. But just, again,

classic one, talk to your TD. How are you getting on, TD? What's the crack with direct provision? What are your thoughts on this? Simple as that.

I guarantee you, not a lot of people say that to canvassers. Can you tell me about direct provision and what you're... I don't even know if a lot of TDs would be prepared toassers. Can you tell me about direct provision and what you're... I don't even know if a lot of TDs would be prepared to answer it. Yeah.

They don't want to know about it. I don't think... It's never spoken about in the Dáil as much, really. It's kind of just a cultural conversation on the fringes of the internet at the moment. It seems to be, yeah. So let's bring it more central. And I think that drama's really going to help

because it's going into people's homes on a Sunday night. Yeah. So that's something that hopefully will get people talking about it's homes on a Sunday night you know so that's something that hopefully will get people talking about it but yeah you're right so that's systemic racism and there are other ways that that works like you know it works against travellers here so it's like people will say

and you know during that whole the gentleman running for president recently he was saying things like you know there are I can't remember how it was phrased, and I probably will get it wrong, so please forgive me, but

it was like, that there are more travellers incarcerated, and I was like, but that's, than any other community or whatever, and that statistic might be wrong, so again, forgive me, but that doesn't review how the system, like if johnny rugby is

going in yeah against johnny traveler into a courtroom the judge is going to be more sympathetic to johnny rugby he came from a good family he came from a good family he's a grand lad in the town yeah and or and wasn't known to gardy wasn't that's a classic one. Known to Gardaí. Jesus Christ. And like, honestly... Do you know what I mean? We all know what they're saying. They're like, known to Gardaí. But this is it. I'm only on... I've only really, and honestly,

again, throw myself under the bus, I've only really started to listen to Traveller Voices recently because of my own prejudices and because of the fact that we just don't hear so many i'm trying to seek them out now because i need to learn and uh you can't i love that phrase um what is it people say um nothing about us without us so that people shouldn't just be sitting there on a panel discussing travelers without someone from the community there

you know people shouldn't be talking about direct provision without having someone who's living in those conditions there. Like, you know... I am conscious that we are both

two white straight people talking about Travellers and black people up here. Yeah, exactly. Where are they? When's your direct provision episode? It's coming. Don't worry.

Yay! I just found out on Twitter that you were involved in a programme called Soupy Norman. Don't worry. I just found out on Twitter that you were involved in a program called Soupy Norman. Yes. Yes. Are you familiar? Do you know what Soupy Norman is? It's this program that came out about 10 years ago,

and it's one of those things you go, holy fuck, RTE commissioned this? It's comic genius. It is... Tell us what it is. It's unfortunately not on YouTube anymore because some prick took them down. Oh, are they not? Are they gone?

They're gone. Oh, no. They're fucking gone. Because even though I worked on it, I still used to go and watch Soupy to cheer myself up every now and again. Because they were only ten minutes long. Tell us what it is.

So, Soupy Norman was... There was a Polish soap, and it was, you know, a regular soap. It was a real, it wasn't a comedy. So EastEnders, but in Poland. EastEnders, but in Poland. And much further EastEnders. And so, basically, what happened was,

Barry Murphy and... It was Mark Doherty. Mark Doherty. Yeah. They got, they made ten minute cuts of like six ten minute cuts of this Polish soap and then they sort of did dubs for it and we all did the voices

but they wrote the things we would say and so they said it in Buttevent so I was Esther from Buttevent thanks very much Soupy fans so basically what would happen was there'd be the 10 minutes

and then the last the single last the last scene of every episode was always exactly the same always with a different script yeah and it was Soupy

coming in oh have you got mad about the soup so yeah there was Mario Rosenstock worked on that, Sue Collins, myself. Yeah, it was

great crack. It's the best. Again, you look at it and you go, how the fuck did RT do this? It's genius. They almost didn't. It was on very late at night. Yeah, it was shoved. It was on very late at night and it didn't get a series two. It did get a Christmas special.

I heard that the reason it got taken down was the original Polish company who took it down off YouTube. Oh, I think that might be true. I think they thought it was going to be translated for the Irish market. Oh! And instead, it's us saying things like Donkey was tired from the journey

so I gave him a carrot and put him on the loose. Mark Doherty's... Mark Doherty, he's David O'Doherty's brother. He's a gas cunt. Oh, he's amazing. He's so funny. And he made that film, A Film With Me In It, it's called. Yeah, that's brilliant. Get a look at that. Oh, he's amazing. He's so funny. And he made that film, A Film With Me In It, it's called.

Yeah, that's brilliant. Get a look at that. That again, it'll probably be online, but A Film With Me In It. I have a funny story about Mark Daugherty. Go on. He used to do loads and loads of voiceover work, you know? Like, way too much.

And one day, like, it was every single day, voiceover work, voiceover work. So one day anyway, I think he got his first PC or something, right? So he was trying to figure out how to turn on the PC and how to install some shit. And it was killing him. It was racking his brains, you know? So he was like, all right, for fuck's sake. So he gets the CD and puts it in for the instructions on how to do it.

And it's his own voice. And he just gave up. Can I tell you a secret? Go on. I used to beat the voice on O2. Oh shit! On the phone or on the ads? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You did loads of voiceovers? I did loads of voiceovers, yeah. And when you're an actor, it's like, oh, yay, something I get paid for. Yeah. And it's very hard to turn them down. And, you know, they're a real godsend at times. I can't get any voiceover work. You can't?

What? Stop. I've tried. I don't know. I think Drunk Limerick Aunt. I think there's a market for her. I think there's a market for her. I think there's a market for her. But yeah, I'd be like,

you have no new messages. Which is really depressing if you're hearing it yourself. You're deliberately trying to sound automated. Yeah, no, you have to kind of really, really, like my accent is mad anyway. It's a real mishmash. But for to kind of really, really... Like, my accent is mad anyway. It's a real mishmash. But for that kind of work, you have to make it even more what they call neutral,

which usually when they say neutral, especially if you're recording in Dublin, they mean South County Dublin. Yeah. But they mean how they sound in their own heads usually. But, yeah, so you have to make it more what they call neutral. So if you're just rounding out the vowels a little bit more. What was the most fun voiceover thing you did?

Oh. There's a question. There's a good question. The most fun. There's a real professional question. There's loads because I did the very surreal. And we talked about this in the last podcast. Did we?

We did. Oh, we did a podcast already but it didn't record yeah down in Cork actually I heard your podcast this week

the week we were recording and it said yeah it was unlistenable shit which I've had worse reviews but no because of the recording the conversation was amazing but

it was a room full of lovely gentle Cork people it was fabulous it was great it was midsummer night it was magical and then we all said fuck shame yeah it was brilliant in an old church but It was a room full of lovely gentle car people. It was fabulous. It was great. It was a midsummer night. It was magical. And then we all said, fuck shame.

Yeah, it was brilliant. In an old church. But so I did a thing called, I'd say I don't think anyone here would remember it, but a thing called Rimini Riddle. Anyone remember that? Yeah? I'm responsible for a lot of the nightmares that happened.

So Rimini Riddle was about this B&B where there was kind of a portal to another dimension. I'm not... I'm big on the other dimensions. So I played a character called Leo in that, and Leo... Leo was six. And so we'd record on Saturday mornings. Unless I'd been out the night before, when Leo would be a bit older. Oh, Christ. And I've talked about this on other podcasts, so forgive me if you're hearing this again. Oh Christ

And I've talked about this on other podcasts so forgive me if you're hearing this again but the thing people always get a kick out of is now only in Ireland not on the UK version

but I did play a well known hot chocolate rabbit Fuck off Yes You are not the Cadbury's Bunny Yeah just for one ad hot chocolate rabbit. Fuck off! Yes. You are not the cat breeze bunny. Just for one ad, and only in Ireland.

What? But it's still the pinnacle of my career. Now... Jesus Christ. It was a one-off product. Getting the confection horn. That was an attractive... That fucked with my sexuality she's a hot bunny

she's a hot bunny it has to be said I had to watch her for a weekend to try and get the voice right so I know all about it I thought women were for the caramel this was one with nuts in it

and I think I'm never ever going to get a cabaret job again so feck it let's go for it I think the I'm never ever going to get a cabaret job again, so feck it, let's go for it. I think the script went something like, you know, there'd be a cartoon squirrel, clearly. Hey there, Mr. Squirrel. Why are you batting those nuts?

So, ah feck it, you have to work, don't you? Well she made a... And then they sold an actual, it was like a Freddo but a sexualised rabbit. Wasn't that what it was? Was there a sexualised... I don't think they ever made the rabbit, I think that would have been a step too far. That was in my fucking head. I'm after sexualising poor old Freddo who couldn't be any more

androgynous. Freddo is without sex or desire. Now I've just sexualized the poor cunt. Freddo's interesting, isn't he? What is he going for now? 20p? 22p. P?

Prod. Is it 22 cents? 22 cents for a Freddo now? I think that's what the... 24. 40 cents for a Freddo. Do we hear 50? Do we hear 50?

Do we hear 50 on the Freddos? Do we hear 60? 60 cents on... Two. Two, two, two. Do we hear two, two, two? Do you know why that is as well? It's like...

And this is the only hot take I'm going to give on confection. Hot take, hot take. Like, with Mars bars that just make them smaller, you can't make Freddo smaller. You really can't, because he's going to turn into a Cadbury's Button before soon, you know.

I'll see you, hold on, have I any more interesting questions, questions, questions? What am I, South African? From the internet. All right. If you had to live inside... Oh, God. This is the second.

Do you know what? The first time I interviewed, someone asked this question, and the second time I interviewed you, they asked this question too, so we're going to have to do it. We'll have to tackle it. If you had to live inside some sort of fruit, what would it be? Now, before I answer that, my favourite quote from the last podcast,

the unlistenable shit, was, this question got asked and we started to go around the fruits and then Blind Boy said, said, no! Indignant-like. No! No fucking way I'm living in a dense fruit.

Not a chance. Because someone from the audience suggested that I should live in a pineapple. And there's two reasons I won't live in a pineapple. Number one, incredibly dense fruit. Number two, pineapple contains a chemical called bromelain which specifically tenderises meat. So, number one, I'm in a dense fruit

being surrounded by juice that tenderises me. So, get fucked with being in a pineapple. My choice was... I'll go with a pomegranate because it's spacious. There's not a lot going on. It's a couple of seeds, a bit of pulp around it,

but plenty of room for blind buy. What type of fruit would you like to live in? What are those yolks on top of the drinks? The zombies? They were passion fruits. Passion fruits. A passion fruit fruit that wouldn't be a bad one yeah yeah it's kind of it's a hollow passion fruit they're hollow they're hard on the

outside no matter how hard on the outside so stay dry a good passion fruit will go nice and leathery after a while which means you'd be like a hermit crab with a very tough exterior and you can go back on Twitter. And you could... Oh, never. That's not about my exterior. Back on Twitter as a fucking passion fruit. Back on Twitter. That sounds like an album that I would never listen to.

Passion fruits are very lucky that they're so tasty because they resemble horrible shellfish. If you open up a passion if you look at it, if you open up a passion fruit and look at it, it does not look appetising. Like, it's very goopy. It's a particular brand of yellow that's not appetising.

Some might call it ochre. Do you know? Passion fruits, but they taste amazing. And they exemplify, not the smell of tropicalness, but, like, the idea of tropicalness. I can't believe you've judged my home so harshly so thank you Tara

for that lovely interview that was in Vicar Street couple of months back there's going to be some more Vicar Street gigs coming up 2019 that feels weird, 2019,

wow, but yeah, keep an eye out for them, that was good crack, I enjoyed it, it was fantastic, of course, I'm obviously conscious of, you know, it's two white people talking about issues of race that we don't, neither of us have to directly experience you know so with that in mind like it's something I'm conscious of so in future podcasts

there are going to be there will be a bit of diversity we'll say in the guests that I'm choosing if I'm speaking about issues around that which is the right way to do it I think it's the right way to do

it have a good week enjoy yourselves don't be too hard on yourselves Rock City you're the best fans in the league bar none tickets are on sale now for fan appreciation night on saturday april 13th when the toronto rock hosts the rochester nighthawks at first

ontario center in hamilton at 7 30 p.m you can also lock in your playoff pack right now to guarantee the same seats for every postseason game, and you'll only pay as we play. Come along for the ride and punch your ticket to Rock City at torontorock.com. Thank you.