The Break-Up Diet - Divorce Isn’t Failure. It’s Your Reset Button with Arabella Paul.

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Think divorce = failure? Think again. 💔➡️✨ In this episode, we sit down with Divorce Survival Coach Arabella Paul, who proves that the end of a marriage isn’t the end of you—it’s the ultimate reset button.Arabella knows this journey firsthand. After her own divorce in 2020, she ditched the shame spiral and turned her pain into purpose, helping women just like you navigate the messy, emotional rollercoaster of separation. Forget overpaying your solicitor to listen to your feelings—Arabella’s here with actual tools that work.We get into:💌 Journaling hacks to stop those 3AM thought spirals.🖐 Stress-calming tricks (like tapping and PQ reps) you can do literally anywhere—even mid-mediation.💔 How to tear down the “Great Wall of China” around your heart and start trusting again.🔥 Why divorce isn’t baggage—it’s proof of your strength.Whether you’re in the raw “can’t-get-out-of-bed” stage, months into rebuilding, or just curious about how women rise from heartbreak, this convo is your permission slip to reset, recharge, and glow the hell up.So grab your headphones, pour the wine (or the herbal tea, no judgment), and let Arabella remind you: divorce doesn’t define you. It frees you. 🚀Send us a textInstagram: @thebreakupdietpod TikTok: @thebreakupdietpodEmail: [e-mail]

Welcome to another episode of the breakup diet. This is Yaz and Ilms. Today we are joined by Divorce Survival Coach Arabella Paul. Hi! I want to ask, where have you been when I needed you three years ago? How have I only found you now?

So many people say that to me. So many people say, oh, I needed you like three, five years ago. Well, now they're going to know. Yeah, we're putting it around there. You have to go to Arabella. Exactly. So how long have you been the divorce coach for? Well, I got made redundant at the beginning of last year. And so I decided to retrain as a coach, a niche in breakups and divorce following my own divorce back in 2020. And also, actually, I wanted to be a coach for some time. But when I saw that you could actually do it in a certain area, I thought, well, what better? I could help people going through really difficult times like I do. let's switch it up we've been holding back way too much welcome to the breakup diet and because i help people emotionally with all the emotions around divorce but also i help people

avoid common pitfalls avoid making mistakes that might be costly and also reducing the time you speak to your solicitor about your emotion because quite frankly they care but it's not relevant and they're not equipped to help you so they're there to get like the logistics of the divorce done not the actual emotional yeah i've never thought about that that makes so much sense actually yeah that would be hard because you want to ask them and you want to talk to them but you like you can they're not really yeah and you do and i think you know and divorce solicitors are really empathetic and that's why they do a job like that but they can't really help you and as i say it's not actually relevant to the case yeah I mean, you can go on and on about your husband having an affair or whatever, and they're like, I'm really sorry you're going through all this. But can you tell me about this, this and that? Because the affair is going to have no bearing on the final result. Exactly, because now with the whole no-fault divorce,

anything that's happened to you does not matter. What's on no-fault? No-fault divorce is when you end a marriage on the basis that no-ones to be blamed. Yes, because in the past, you had to... Gather up evidence of adultery and abuse and everything. But when with adultery, you actually literally had to have a time and a place, not photographic evidence, but you needed to know exactly when it happened and where it happened. It's like a full concrete thing.

Yeah. And if it wasn't an affair, which not so many times it isn't, you had to basically say why you don't like the other partner or why they're really annoying and why the marriage can never continue. It was irreconcilable differences. Yeah. And that would often make an amical divorce become quite nasty because you've had to stay, you their worst habits or oh god that's horrible no no fault is the best thing ever because that for me

was the quickest process yeah like i was done in six months so was i and for me it's like ripping off a plaster you just want to get on and do it genuinely like i don't care about what belongs to what like no must be blamed i don't want to be with you fine yeah yeah god so so if somebody going through like a divorce right now what are some steps that they could take to like start the healing process and actually like let it go. Journaling's really good. Getting all your thoughts down on paper, it just frees up some mental space.

I have some specific ones that apply to me, but actually I do use them in my coaching. Music is so empowering, listening to a great song. It makes you feel good or dancing around. That can really help. Exercise. I play tennis, but people can do anything.

Just getting out into the nature, going for a walk, and for me and my friends, having a community around you, people who make you feel better about yourself. Yeah, like a lot of the time, like even with like a breakup, like a long distance or not a long distance, a long term, break up. That's something that people really struggle with is feeling

lonely because it's like you go from having someone and then to like being alone at night or whatever. Yeah, to not having your person anymore. It's such a big adjustment and like you're right, having friends honestly is what saved me personally. Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, having a good friendship network. But also I talk about a support team and that will be like if you're going through a divorce, I also deal with breakups, not just divorce, but if you're going through a divorce, you need the solicitor or mediator, if it's going down that route, financial advisor, divorce coach, maybe even a therapist if you've got some deep-seated past trauma you need to deal with,

and friends, family, and exercise buddy. Hang on, let's stop this for a sec. Subscribe and follow the breakup diet. You don't want to miss another episode. I don't understand how anyone goes to work. It was really, really tough. and I don't know why I felt like I couldn't ask for help, even though my boss kept on checking in. I just felt the need to be this, like, strong person and not get weak, if that makes sense.

I didn't want to show anyone that I was actually struggling. Instead, I was to my boss, hey, I want to take on more deals for my portfolio. Like, I think my identity, and this is going on to the next question, I've always been such a, like, strong, resilient girl, like, growing up and even throughout my marriage, that that was like, one thing I did not want to have taken away. Like he can take away my house, my bags, everything, but he is not going to take away my identity. And I think like for a lot of people who've gone through like a traumatic breakup or a divorce, how do they either hold on to their identity or I guess rebuild it? I think starting off really with rediscovering and redefining your values for a start, remembering who you were before the relationship. Also, if within

in a marriage, particularly lots of decisions have been taken out of your hand or you made decisions together, then it's getting more confident in yourself to make decisions on your own. And it could be to start with the simplest things like deciding what to have a dinner, but the more you do it, the more you practice, the better you get it. And the more you feel confident in it. Setting small goals as well, just each day and nothing too big, nothing too unmanageable. So that when you look back, you've actually taken a giant leap. That's really helpful as well. What are some mistakes that people make, like, straight away when they're going through a divorce and, you know, in this process? Well, I think one of the main ones is flying off the handle and talking to a solicitor and acting very quickly.

And I think it's better to be in an emotionally regulated state when you're talking to a solicitor about your divorce because these decisions are going to be for the rest of your life, perhaps, if you have children. And so you've got to really be in the right place mentally to. talk to yourself about what's going to happen. Let's say someone's had an affair. They want to leave a marriage and they feel so guilty, they say, well, you know, my ex can have everything. Well, that doesn't really work. But they're just acting in the moment. So you've really got to make sure you're in the right place. How do you like get yourself to be more grounded in such a high stress environment, such as a divorce? Even in a breakup? Yeah. Well, lots of self-care looking after yourself, eating well, sleeping well, exercise. I actually know.

and pass on lots of tips and techniques to regulate your emotions. NLP techniques, something called PQ rep. So a PQ rep, for example, is rubbing your fingertips together and really concentrating on the sensation of your fingers together, feeling all the ridges of your fingers, feeling the heat of your fingers. And that sort of takes you away. It changes your focus and grounds you and brings you back to the pressure. present. And that's really helpful also in a scenario where maybe you're in a meeting or in the

courtroom or you're in a solicitor's meeting or as a mediation and you're feeling like, you know, anxious to do something like that is really subtle and no one knows you're doing it. And that's really helpful. That's one thing. Yeah, that's really good. This is great because I'm like doing it right now and I needed this today because I'm having such a stressful day. Yeah. I feel like you, didn't you, when we first started this, I feel like you did something like, oh, the EPF topics. Yes. Yes. That's Yes. What was that beginning? It was like you tap your forehead or something? Yeah, you like tap here, then you tap the... There's not the same thing.

It has the same effect. And yes, it's a different way, but you're accessing certain nerves to regulate yourself emotionally in that instance. And it calms you down completely. Like, when my mom is stressing me out, I like tap myself to oblivion. Yeah. And actually, when this isn't around breakup or divorce, but one of my great friends died before COVID. and I had to stand and give a talk at her memorial. And I was terrified that I was going to cry. And I'd spent quite a lot of time because I was at school with her, quite a lot of time writing it. So I wanted it.

I wanted everyone to hear it, lots of old stories. And so I spent the entire time tapping at the same time as talking. And it really helped. I didn't cry. Yeah, because I'm so sorry. I know. It's heartbreaking. But when you, it is like that.

When you can write it down or you can say it in your head and you don't cry, the moment the words leave your mouth out loud, You often do cry. Mm-hmm. Even if you have said it thousands of times in your head, written it down, it's so weird that that actually just saying it out loud just triggers something in the end. Yeah. Another thing I find really useful is starting a new project or doing something that's completely taking your mind off it.

Yeah, I was really, really sad that day, and I couldn't stop crying. And I was thinking, oh, my God, my life can get any better. But I was practicing all my techniques of myself. And I had a shower basket to build and hang in my shower. Anyway, so I just had the instructions out and went through it all. And suddenly I hadn't even thought about it for like half an hour. It was brilliant. There are often at times we're being so harsh on ourselves with our healing and recovery.

Yeah. What are some examples you think shows that we're actually on the right path of healing that we don't realize? So I think any setback we ought not to worry about, that's perfectly normal. normal and sitting with an emotion is also a good thing because otherwise it will become something that you stuffed and it will come back to haunt you later. But I think things like not thinking of your ex for maybe over 50% of your day. How? They live in my mind rent free. They're in my head right now. Writing things you are grateful for. Writing a list of all the bad things associated with your ex, writing a bucket list of things you would do in the future and perhaps things

your ex would not want to have done and things that you actually would have done, but you didn't do it. Oh, my ex would not have wanted me to start a podcast. I had it with my ex, but I bet he doesn't want it now. But he's like, God damn it. But also, we're not stalking your ex because some people, you know, keep looking online, maybe thinking about contacting them. And I think if you're doing that or thinking about it, at least less and less,

anything, just small steps. It's really hard to do. But also I feel like you have to be ready. I feel like people put a lot of pressure on, you know, being fine quite fast after. And if you have been fine quite fast after on a different relationship, you kind of expect to be similar a lot of the time on another. Yeah. Like I feel like every single relationship is so different

and your like post-break up is so different too. No, I agree. And also divorce and being married doesn't mean that, you're going to feel stronger emotions than from a breakup that really meant a lot to you because you perhaps thought you were going to be with that person forever anyway, whether you were married or not. So it's still pretty painful and you're redefining your future and imagining a future without them. And that's, you know, the unknown and that's quite scary. Hard letting go of something that you thought was. That's what it is, isn't it? Absolutely.

Do you think that's something that people struggle with the most? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And then probably like, as you said, rebuilding and figuring it out. It's what we don't necessarily know, but it's the second most traumatic event, a life event after the death of a loved one, going through a divorce or separation. Yeah, you're basically mourning someone who's still alive. Yeah.

I've still got alive, and they've chosen to live that life without you. Yeah. It is such a kick in the stomach. Like, sometimes I'm like, I wish they were dead. No, no, cutting that. That is a normal. That is a normal reaction.

Like, I just, I don't want to know what they're up to. I don't want to know if they've moved on, that kind of thing. Yeah. I was with somebody, like, quite recently that heard about one of their exes, like, actually moving on. And she's been totally fine, nothing, like, the whole time. As in, like, obviously, she went through the whole process and everything being sacked. But, like, she's been pretty good, you know, and fine.

And then she heard about it, and she burst out crying straight away. See, like, I just don't want a reminder off their even. existence. I think one of the best things to do is obviously come off social media contact with them and perhaps friends associated with them too. Because also you could read into something. You could see that there's a picture of them with somebody else, but actually it's not where you think it is.

It's just a cousin. Yeah. And also, I find with that point, though, it is actually quite hard to let go of ties that you've made through your partner. Oh my God, yeah. Like using the friends, using their girlfriends, that was the hardest for sure. Yeah. Because then it's just like another element of like you feel.

even more lonely, possibly, you know, because you've not just lost your partner, you've also then feel like you've lost your community a bit. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And also your family, sometimes if you've gotten really well with their family and then suddenly, you know, you're not supposed to be talking to them or having a relationship with them anymore, that's hard, you're losing everybody. And it's hard also when you're, you know, you spend so much time with their family and you really put in the effort. But actually, I think, if you look at it from the family's point of view, and if they really liked you and they're actually, quite upset, the relationship's broken. They can't do anything about it and it's really hard

for them to adapt and then all be with smiles for their son or daughter and welcome the new relationship because as a parent, that's really what you've got to do. But you're still thinking, I really like the last one. They will be thinking that. Yeah. No, I'm joking. So, boundaries, self-respect. What role do they play, especially if the divorce or the breakup was toxic or traumatic? is a huge. Also, the power of no, I'm one of those people that says yes to everything. It's saying, I'm such a yes, man, for what? Like, I'm such a people please up, but I feel like people aren't pleased. Yet I feel like I'm pleasing people. Yes. I'm putting them over me. Absolutely. I'm trying to, like, you know, make their life easier at the detriment of my life.

And I think, why am I doing this? So I'm getting better myself as like saying no or no, not on that day, can we do it another day? And actually, more often than not, absolutely fine and how do you like not feel anxious especially when you're like introducing someone new to your life you obviously like want to be accommodating you want to be the cool girl yeah you're so easy going yes I want to be the chill girlfriend also if you like them you do accommodate more because you're like you want to see them even if it's at your detriment yes you know how do we like not do that how do we not do that I don't want to do that anymore I know how do we not do that rather than like

flipping to being really difficult and no i don't want to do this and you know being the complete opposite i think maybe it's like picking your battles or thinking about what really is important to you so like i don't know you don't want to be a difficult person in terms of you know you know you're not going out you're not single friends you don't do this you're not doing that but perhaps it's better to be you know more upfront about what matters to you and then at least they know their sort of goalposts, I suppose, and so they can work with that. Will we still be able to find people with those boundaries? Of course.

Yes, because they're not walls. They're not like, you know, keeping people out. They're like just sort of guidelines. I think it's so important, especially at the start to make those clear, actually, with like what you want and what you expect. I think if you don't have that at the start and then you try to enforce them after, it's almost like a lost case. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, if you want something at the start, you have to almost go, I would say, harsh the other way. Because then if people like slack a bit, it's still meeting your, like. Yeah. And I also think when we were talking about boundaries and being open about how it makes you feel or why you'd like someone to behave like that. Because if we don't communicate that with them, we think, oh, they'll just know. But that's what's going on through our heads. They don't just know.

They have mine might operate in a different way. but so you're actually helping them by giving these guidelines i think we can rewrite boundaries to guidelines i like that i like that because it makes it less stressful to it's all like not like forgiving it sounds a bit more like you know working in progress yeah five you know what i mean instead of it being like if you cross it it's like yeah because your boundary seems quite like all and muffing yeah it does it does isn't it sometimes yeah it shouldn't be like that but it does sound a bit of boundaries I mean, in the old days, boundaries were keeping, like, people out for your boundary, your home. So it does sound like that.

How would you stop somebody like that is, you know, they're trying to set boundaries, but they can't stop themselves comparing their current partner to their ex. This is an example. They've had a guy that cheats that will do the phone thing, not answer them for hours. How do you get somebody to a place where they aren't like instantly thinking the worst? It's really hard. It takes time. I really think it takes time. And then you have to like learn to trust again. But what I do think is with actions and words, I always think actions speak louder than words. For sure. Words mean nothing without action. Exactly. So they can say they will do this or they will do that, but not follow through time and time again. They say everything except they weren't act the talk. It's boring. Exactly. So yeah, look at, are they acting the way you want them to? that's more important about at least saying the things you want to do you think there should be like a strikeout rule almost like if they do it set amount of times like oh you know what I mean because I feel like I definitely let that happen with actions like now thinking about it yeah yeah no and I agree and I'm the same and also you think oh you know I'm easy going I'll let that go and you know I always give the benefit of the doubt but maybe internally you know we can think okay once twice no I'm gonna get a bit personal

a bit vulnerable, but this is like such a, yeah, this is such a me question. How do I begin to build trust again with someone else? I feel very kind of, I know we talk about boundaries, but I've got like the great wall of China on top of me. Like, I'm really scared to be vulnerable and I'm really scared to even open up, like, for dating. Like, I rarely date. I, yeah, how do I, like, know that they're safe, that they're not going to hurt me, that they're not going to, like, do what my exes have done. Yeah. Well, first of all, you can't guarantee that that's not going to happen.

I think it's more about learning from the past and taking the lessons you've learnt and moving them forward into new relationships and dating. I think it's about open communication. Also, making yourself, little promises and keeping to them that really helps with building self-confidence as well but i do think to really feel love you have to let yourself go and be open to feel love but also that can come with pain that's the thing i feel like because there's no guarantee of forever i feel like what is the point

of like putting all these boundaries down after i've worked so hard to be you know strong confident resilient and unbreakable. Like, what's the point? I feel like when you put the boundaries, if you set them at the start, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like if you set the boundaries at the start when you're first dating

and somebody's already, you know, that they're not going to meet it, then they haven't really got to know you either. So if, you know, that might help you trust the right person sooner because at least there's a little bit more like cut out, you know? Yeah. And also if you talk with someone new about your values

and share his or her values together, then, you know, you can make sure you're aligned in that way, and that's really helpful. Like, you could probably say certain things, why you find it hard to trust, certain things that have triggered you or certain things that have happened in your past if you want to be open.

I believe in monogamy. No one is monogamous. And it's so easy to get away, actually, with cheating. Yeah, so easy. That's why it's hard. Like, and that's why I think it's hard. to trust people because it's like a lot of people do it and they I don't know it's so easy to even have like a small interaction with like people can have parasocial relationships with someone online

without actually having the intention of like having sex or even to meet they just like liking each other's stuff yes yeah but actually even on the dating apps um people would have a conversation would be talking talking talking and it's something they'd disappear and actually I think they probably were in a relationship and they were just getting their kicks out of messaging someone random. So bizarre because they would delete the app. They wouldn't just disappear. You were unconnected because they had deleted the app. It's like that's a bit bonkers. Yeah. And then they'd come back there two weeks later on the app. Oh my god. I've had that one guy twice, talking to him twice. You have that. Why did I bloody talk to him a second time? God

knows, but both times, two hours of like intense chatting, and then suddenly he's deleted the app. I didn't say anything wrong. So there must have been like a girlfriend of someone who walked into the room. Yeah, and you may, I reckon you made the excuse. You made up an excuse to the first time around. I was like, oh, you know, what happened to him or we probably press a button back. Yeah, yeah. It is that though. You make excuses. I do. I'm always making excuses for other people in their behaviour. I feel like that's everybody. No longer. Yeah, no longer. Yeah, no longer. we're not doing that anymore. Yes.

No. No. I'd be more cynical. But I also am so cynical to the point like I just can't. I'm the opposite. I'm more trusting.

Two trusting perhaps. I'm trusting with like female friends. Yeah. But with men I'm just like you need a password. Oh, the password doesn't work. I'm never going to get the password.

I mean, if you know the password, don't work. Yeah. But also I think if you have a gut feel about someone, then at the right at the beginning as well, then go with your guts. If your instincts are telling you that this isn't quite right, even though you might be like, oh, but this is the reason why I think you've got to go with your gut.

So it's actually so true that the reasons that you might not like them at the start are normally, or like think that is a problem at the start, are normally the ones that break you up at the end. Yes, yeah, yes. I think that point is really hard for somebody that's been single for, long time because then you start to compromise and you start to be like oh maybe i'm like the problem and i'm being too picky and i'm you know what i mean so then you like yeah let's go of that yeah i agree yes ask you some common divorced myths i've handwritten them because they're all like

my internal monologue so the first one it's impossible to find love again after going through something traumatic i don't think it's impossible um i have i have um well they could be anywhere, you know, online or at your workplace or, um... My workplace, I work with yours. And that's it. Oh! Oh, yeah. Um, but I think actually from the lessons you learn from past relationships, that actually

sets you up to find a deeper, better love in the future. I hope so. Another myth, that a divorce is like a failure and that you're a failure for having a divorce. I feel like that's what. Yeah, complete meth. In fact, I think the... someone who is divorce is often makes them stronger and they've showed great resilience. Whether they're the one that has been left or has done the leaving, it's a complete myth.

It's not a failure at all. In fact, if I see meet someone who's divorced, I see strength. Oh, that's really sweet. You're strong. And sisterhood. Yeah, sisterhood for sure. It's another myth. No man wants a divorced woman.

I think that's a man who knows him, his own self. he will know that a divorce woman is a better woman because she's also would have gone through her own healing, done those at discovery, being on a journey, and, you know, coming out to be perhaps a better version of themselves to do all that? Do you think these men would ever be intimidated by my strength? Yeah, possibly. Absolutely, that could be. But the man that's right for you will see that as a blessing, not be intimidated and will want to grow with you. okay no

try not to cry okay I hope I find that I'd like to find that you will you will it's so scary but even with like normal breakups in general

like you go to the low but then you learn so many things and you go better and anybody that's going to be a little bitch about it doesn't want you because you've gone through a divorce or whatever like sorry but you're just not

good enough you're not smart yeah goodbye yeah Yeah, like, you weigh, you're probably going to go through something, you know what I mean? Like, most people go through a, not in the, like, a breakup, you know, in their whole life, so. Yeah, you've got to, I think also open your mind to dating not the obvious choice for you. So, don't.

I put my Raya age gap to, like, 55 plus. How much more open-minded can I be? Plus? Older. Older? No, jeez. Me, I don't even do that. I'm going to be 50 this year, and I think my highest age would be 53 or something.

55, no, thank you. What's the youngest? I'd probably go as low as 27. My brother's age, because that would feel weird, my brother's 43, so. Oh, you can go younger, you can get away with it. Maybe 40 then, but not only 40, because I think people might go, oh, because she's going to be 50 this. Oh, you can do 30, baby. You can do 30.

30, maybe. He knows. It's summer. Yeah. We'll see. I'm not on the dating apps at the moment, but... Let's create one for you. Okay.

Another myth. Yes. You'll be broken struggling forever after a divorce. Well, that I think is a complete myth. Yes, it's really expensive. It can be really expensive to get divorced. But in the short term, yes, you might be struggling. But I think often women come out more empowered and ready to rebuild their lives.

That's true, actually. Actually can be financially better off in the future. Oh, my God, 100%. Because now my money is my money. Yeah. Like, I don't owe anyone anything. Exactly. And also, there are things you can do,

like take a look at your lifestyle when you go through a divorce and work out other things you can do in terms of budgeting and shopping elsewhere and do you really need some of the things, you know, and you can just sort of do a bit of a clear-out. And then when you've got more money, then maybe take those things back on again. But it's like sprinkly. spring cleaning

we did a spring cleaning we did a spring cleaning shoot and that kind of started like the breakup yeah I mentioned my own breakup the spring cleaning shoot spring clean your apartment spring clean your relationship my relationship

I should love for when I go through a breakup I go through a spring cleaning mind house of life moment because that just helps me if I'm organizing my head in my house. I just feel sort of in a better place to cope with it. Oh, it's such a great way to declotter everything. Yeah, yeah. Okay, the last myth. All men cheat and you just have to put up with if you want to stay

married. So, yeah, I have been through an ex having an affair, but I've also gone through many boyfriends who've never done that. And there are so many good men out there who really value love and monogamy and treating someone as they should be treated. So no, that's a complete myth is finding the right one. But there are a lot of right ones though. It's not just one. I mean, you know, and also I don't believe the thing is I think we've often got this idea of fairy tale and unconditional love and also in a marriage staying with someone if it's not right because of this unconditional love. But I think we need to be more realistic about what love is and it's more give and take and it's sharing values and respecting each other and growing

together. I do want to ask like one last thing. UK divorce statistics. How is it? Is it getting worse? Does love exist? What are you seeing that's trending with like your clients? Yeah. So, um, what we are saying, I think it's two thirds of divorces are mainly instigated by women because, yeah, they are, they're fed up with, um, in taking most of the load, the family loads, that often happens. So it's an imbalance there. They're often lacking emotional connection and often have got a career where they don't actually rely on the husband to provide for them. And so they will move on and be happy on their own. And actually, women are more likely to, in fact, women do thrive beyond divorce more than men do.

Oh, men, get your act together. Yeah, exactly dropped. Drop. Yeah. But I think the divorce rate at the moment's about 42%, which is still quite high. It has come down slightly from COVID, where just after COVID it was reaching an all-time high. So basically one-in-two marriage ends in the divorce. Yeah, almost. But less people are getting married these days as well, actually. Okay.

Yeah. There was somebody that said on a podcast that I listened to that it was like, there's, like, our generation, there'll be the least amount of marriages, but the least amount of divorces, because there's like... No, marriages took divorce for us. No, but also, when they actually do, like, they're really solid, and, like, it's just stuck. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I've got a few friendships.

My friends who are married, really good, decent and fun men, and I look at their relationships and they'd be married 20 years, they've got two or three children, and I know that it exists. That is really, really important and good to know. Yeah. Arabella, divorce survival coach. we feel so lucky to have had you on. I feel lucky. Thank you. No, thank you so much.

We've learned so much. And I feel like I've gotten like a little bit of hope sparked back in me. So I really appreciate it. My pleasure.