The Break-Up Diet - Do You Need CLOSURE...Or Do You Just Miss Your Ex????

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Why do we desperately chase closure after a relationship ends? Is it really about finding answers, or is it something deeper and more complicated?In this raw, honest conversation, we explore the psychology behind those post-breakup "closure talks" that so many of us have experienced. From the awkward coffee dates to the tearful FaceTime calls, we dissect what we're really seeking when we ask for "one last conversation" with someone who's walked away."Every time I have a closure conversation, I have more questions and I never end up asking them, so I kind of end up leaving closureless," one host admits, capturing the frustrating cycle many find themselves in. We tackle the uncomfortable truth that sometimes these conversations are less about healing and more about trying to win someone back – complete with the strategic outfit choices and perfectly timed vulnerability.We share practical advice for those determined to have the closure talk: wait at least a week after the breakup, prepare your thoughts in advance, look your absolute best, and focus on understanding rather than accusations. But we also challenge listeners to consider whether external closure is even necessary. Could the healthiest form of closure be finding it within yourself?The conversation takes a powerful turn when we discuss the validity of all relationship endings, whether from marriages, long-term partnerships, or situationships. "Every breakup is valid...and you're allowed to feel bad and feel hurt, even if it wasn't a boyfriend or a husband," we emphasize, acknowledging that connection and intimacy of any kind leaves its mark.Ready to rethink what closure really means and how you might find it without that one last conversation? Listen now and join us on the path to genuine healing.Send us a textInstagram:@the_breakup_dietTikTok:@thebreakupdietEmail: [e-mail]

Well, another episode. We're back, Yaz. How's it going? What's new? Fill me in. We do this every single time and I literally have nothing new to tell you because we see each other all the time.

We talk to each other all the time. Yeah, every day, all day. No, genuinely, like if I have notifications, it's just Yaz, but it's like having a boyfriend, but like, you know, like I have someone to talk to all the time. Yeah, it actually is. It's not even like late night texts, I get something from Ilma, she gets lots from me. Yeah, when you have ideas going you like, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr we need to get a separate thing for like actual serious ideas and because otherwise they get

lost in the whatsapp. I think we need like two phones. Yeah. So Elma what would you do if I suddenly just ghosted you? I'd be like um business partner there's a contract you can't just leave me. Just leave me. Would you not be thinking like, why? Yes, I'd be like, can I get some closure, please? Buckle up bitches, it's gonna get bumpy. This is the breakup diet. But why, why would you want the closure? Because they're just like bang gone?

Well yeah I need some answers. I need to know why you left. But what if they're the answers you don't want to hear? Well I'd want to know because I just don't want you to leave without telling me. I need to know. What if I said, Ilma, I don't want to do this podcast no more. I don't want to see you no more. We had and we had a friendship breakup and that was it. But it was as blunt as like three sentences, two sentences. I would honestly fight to have a closure and say look, can we talk about it? Can we mediate it? I would fight for you, Yaz! Basically I'm guessing you believe in having a closure conversation.

100%. 100%. 100%. Even if you're actually done? Even if you're actually done, it's nice to have a little conversation as just an act of decency, come on. But what if you hear something you don't want to hear? Like imagine you in your head, you're you know, you're running around with what happened Okay, and you don't really understand whatever and what if they've literally just say like I'm not into you

Don't like you you're not all that like that would crush you even more No, like you're going through a breakup and then they hit you with that and you're like shit I'm a piece of dirt on the street. They don't want me, but I don't know why they don't want me, so I need to know. Yeah, but they might not even tell you why. That's like one of the hardest things I've learned in some of my breakups, where they just go

and not give you a real reason. Yeah, I think it is really hard. Like if you're going through a breakup and then you have no reason or nothing that you can think about and you go crazy because you don't also know if your reason that you think it is, is correct. You just don't know anything

and that's such a mind boggling thing. I don't like it. No, I don't think anybody likes it. But I still don't think you should have a closure conversation if you're actually done. If something were to happen to you or say in your previous like situationships have you not given them a reason as to why it ended? No. Really? But if it ended now then then I would be like, with my boyfriend, I always say with my boyfriend, I'm like, ew.

But yes, I have a boyfriend. Show us the ring. But if it ended with him, I would wanna close your conversation because I would wanna weasel my way back in there. See, you get it girl, you get it. That's because I'm not actually done. But if I'm actually done with the relationship

and I want to move on, why have a closure conversation? That's the thing. If you don't want to move on secretly and you want to get them back, definitely have a closure conversation because you can weasel your way in there, look really hot, you know. Be in there, done that.

That's how I started seeing my ex again. Yeah, me too. It's how you, it's how, what you do. You will look really hot. You wear those nice jeans or those nice trousers. Or those skims push up bra. Yeah. Yeah.

That like accentuate your. Bod. Yep. And then you go to the bathroom, walk to the bathroom, they like get up and they're like and then you're like you come back and they're in love. I would want to have that conversation even if I was done I'd want to just have a final conversation and say look x y and z I'm really sorry I wish you all the best. Do you think you would have that conversation like, bang, you break up, it's the next day,

or two months down the line, two weeks down the line, what's the timeframe? Oh, hell no. If I was to dump someone, I would have the closure conversation during the dumping. Just have, I think. I don't think that's closure conversation then. Really?

Why is that? For me, a closure conversation is like, you get broke, you know, cause breakups are quite impulsive sometimes. They're quite like bang, you know, done. You're, can't get out your emotions. Like I, if I'm really upset, I can't, you know, articulate like I'm having trouble right now,

you know? And then you don't say half the stuff. Like, I think a closure conversation is then when you like reflect and come back at it. Yeah, no, you're actually right. So have that impulsive breakup, give some time to think about what actually happened and then just have the closure, the final conversation. But then wouldn't you just end up like, I don't know, getting a bit horny?

Yeah, that's the thing. Most people end up having sex. I'm sorry, but there's no way if I was going through a breakup and somebody broke up with me, or even if I wanted to get them back, I'm not spreading my legs. I'd be like, don't touch me, you dot me. I'll be like, you can never ever ever be with me ever again.

But if you are really nice, I might let you but not on this conversation. Do you know what I mean? I feel like how does this happen? It happens to a lot of people. Oh my gosh, like all my friends, one of them sort of started seeing their like ugly boyfriend, ex boyfriend, and they were just going to have a catch up closure dinner and then they end up having sex. Yeah, but a closure dinner is also another thing. A closure dinner is more than a closure conversation. That kind of screams date. yeah but no I wouldn't I couldn't do that I would be like too proud so how would you have a closure conversation on

text on the phone or in person I mean I feel like a face time yeah I ain't traveling to you or you ain't traveling to me. You ain't gonna ruin my house because you like we had this horrible conversation maybe in my house. Yeah, what if they punch a wall or something? Yeah, we'll just ruin the feng shui. I get you, I get you. If they leave like negative energy it messes with you. Yeah because also when you're going through a breakup, I don't know if you've heard this, but like for me anyway, because I like had the breakup,

I remembered that person, like bits of that person in my own house because that's where we started our relationship really. All those memories came up. It sticks for a bit doesn't it? Yeah, so I don't want then another horrible memory to ruin... I'd prefer to think about the good memories you know? Oh 100% I got dumped in my bedroom and I am just counting the days till my tenancy is over

I feel like maybe that's why I haven't been technically over this ex. Fair, fair. Did you have a like bedroom makeover at all or you just left it the same? Left it the same. Well you're asking to rot. Well I can't afford much. No no I get what you're saying. You're just expensive and you're like ah bedroom. No one sees it anyway. Sorry. Yeah no no but generally no one sees it anyway. It's so tiny. I can't even host someone else because it feels...

I feel it. You feel it too. It's tiny. It's so tiny I can't even host someone else because it feels... I feel it! It's tiny! It's actually not that small. It's like half the size of this. I didn't remember it being that small. That's because you might have been intoxicated. Oh yeah it's like the beer goggles. Everything looks good but it's not. Yeah exactly. Exactly. Elma how would you describe closure? Having the answers, finding the answers to everything but I know I say that every time I do have a closure conversation I have more questions and I never end up asking them so I kind of end up leaving closure-less. Yeah or you want a closure conversation part two.

You can't have a closure conversation part two you know. I know I know but like this was back when I was ultra desperate like I had my friendship breakup, my relationship breakup, both gave me amazing closure conversation. Still wasn't enough for me. Yeah that's because you're greedy. You're so greedy. But how much is enough? It doesn't feel like... the more information you get the more you ask about the information. What type of stuff would you be asking? Like how would you actually... because I've never had... I've had a kind of closure

conversation but it wasn't closure because we didn't end but because I've never had, I've had a kind of closure conversation, but it wasn't closure because we didn't end, but because I got back in there. Yes! Ha ha ha, it was all part of my plan. Anyway, how, what would you actually say? Because for me, it was awkward. I went to this meetup, you sit down, you look at each other other and then you basically almost

start crying. Oh my god yeah it's really embarrassing. It's awkward like and then you're in public so this is what happened to me and then you're in public and you start tearing up you don't want to cry because you you've done the sleigh on the makeup you know the outfit sleigh the hair sleigh the makeup sleigh now he's starting to cry. I'm like, oh my god, this is embarrassing. But then you don't want to like cry about the relationship. So for me, when we had the coffee date closure date, he asked me, oh, how's your work been? I started crying to that, being like, oh, work's been really busy, I just can't manage anymore. Yeah, you see, the closure conversation is hard

because then you're also so, so emotional. So vulnerable. Yeah, you're so vulnerable, so emotional. It's just really embarrassing. Yet, I want to know more. I keep on getting the why questions. It's really annoying. I think that comes from your childhood though. Why? Because everybody's like why when they're young. Even I'm like why? But you gotta let it go. You gotta let go of the why.

You gotta have a closure conversation with yourself to let go of the why. Oh. Why do you ask the why? Well, when does it stop? So when does the why turn into whatever? The why turns into whatever when you realise that you are the catch and they are lost. It's crazy because like even though physically it looks obvious we're they catch but in a breakup you just feel like you're not. Yeah you feel like such dirt don't you? Oh my god I feel

like the lowest. I feel like wait I'm actually at the ugliest girl in London probably like you just have these negative spiral and you question everything. I don't think I don't think of myself as really ugly necessarily. That's because you're not the... No, no, no. Neither are you, but you know what I mean? That's the word I'm coming at. I come at it like I'm just like a useless... Yeah, like I just wasn't good enough. Yeah, that angle, the good enough angle is what gets me. It's not the, I don't, the prettiness, I'm like, you kind of feel that a little bit.

You're like, oh, is he gonna find somebody better? Yeah. And you just think, if he got me, surely he can get someone 10 times better than me. But why? See? Why? Yeah, but why could he get somebody better just

because he got you? Because girls might have seen him with me being like oh like if he landed like a hot girl like him he might be like... A hot girl like him? Hot girl... sorry. Learning lots about you, Ilma. Oh genuinely. If another girl saw him with me what if they get curious and think oh like what is he doing with a hot girl like her maybe there's something to him yeah to be fair that is a thing you do see like ugly men and then they have hot streams of really hot girlfriends and you're always like why it's because big dick, wallet, no yeah body, probably both, personality, personality probably. I think so too. The funny ones always have that. Basically because some hot

girl has gone with him, their like stock value is like you know... It goes up. It's up. It goes up. Yaz, do you think it's possible to ever get closure without speaking to the ex? That would be nice. Yeah, I think there actually is. I think you can have closure without speaking to the ex if you're self-aware. So like you got to be thinking, okay, what did I actually do wrong? Not what you think you did wrong.

You know what I mean? Like what are the actual things like that you know he didn't like for example that you did? That might be something. That's so hard so basically hold yourself accountable. Yeah if it was like a build-up or something then you could probably have a closure within yourself without having to see them or get therapy. Oh yeah I had double therapy to realise that actually I kind of was the problem. I can see you. How are you the problem? I would let my insecurity really take control of the relationship. It's not good. What was your insecurity?

Well, I got cheated on in one of my relationships and I just would... It was hard for me to move on and I kept on, you know, accusing him of cheating, would have him, you know, have his find my location on and yeah, just ruined it. Even though he, I think, didn't cheat. Fair. That is hard once you have something like traumatic like that happen not to bring it in especially if you got cheated on because you it's so easy like it's so easy which sucks it's so easy to get caught though too it's easy to do and it's easy to get caught I think. Oh it's so easy it's like and when men cheat they do it so sloppily it's like they want to get caught. Yeah my friend was telling me about, this is actually a story, my friend was telling me about this guy she on a date with, really nice guy and he just aired her right? BANG aired her. She's

thinking what the hell like we had such a nice date or this. Anyway runs into him maybe six months later, I don't know the exact time frame but I know it was like a long time later. And he's looking quite like ghostly, you know? Like quite, she's like, what the fuck? Anyway, his girlfriend went to the bathroom and comes back and then like he's obviously with this girl, who's his girlfriend. And then anyway, one of their friends ended up talking

to my friend's friend and they've been, they're engaged. Obviously with this girl, who's his girlfriend, and then anyway, one of their friends ended up talking to my friend's friend, and they've been, they're engaged. That's disgusting. Engaged, and she, my friend, went on a full blown date with this guy, they vived a lot, and she was feeling so down, because she was like, what the hell, like this guy, like we had such a nice time, like all this, and then just nothing?

Way to like crush your hopes as well because it's such a big thing to be able to like vibe with someone on a date. It's kind of rare sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then also her closure in that whole thing was finding out, which sucks, finding out you had a girlfriend because she was thinking she was the problem.

Oh my God. And you don't really even get a closure from that. You don't even get the why did you do this? Why did you date outside your engagement? No, I think the closure was knowing that it's not you. Ah, okay, yeah, sorry. So she was blaming herself being like, oh, it's maybe like I'm not pretty,

or maybe I'm not like he doesn't like me as a person like her actual you know even though they were vibing which sucks like to hear to get rejection of yourself like obviously like to that level when you're actually on a date and you spent two hours with somebody or whatever, that's hard, you know, to like digest. I'd be traumatized. I feel like I'd have the worst trust issues after that. What do you think is worse? Realizing that he doesn't want you and realizing that what you wanted to know isn't good. Like he's just like, you're just not my person and you're ugly and you have no motivation, you've never done anything in your life, okay?

Really bad stuff. Seeking validation is such a huge part of my personality, I'd be like, why? Why do you think I'm not good enough? Okay, so let's act this out, Ilma. I'm gonna be your ex. Which one? I don't know which one, but like I'm just gonna pretend to be a man. Okay. So, you want to have this conversation? What's going on?

Well, you broke up with me and you never really gave me an answer. You did it so abruptly. Yeah, because you were pissing me off. Well, what did I do? You went on my phone. Yeah, well. When pissing me off. Well what did I do? You went on my phone when I was in the shower. You never said that it was a problem. You didn't have a problem with it then. I did say it was a problem. Well it didn't go through my ears.

I'm sorry. Let's get back together. Why are you apologising? You're not meant to say I'm sorry. Also, you know what I heard that you shouldn't do is that just reminded me in a closure conversation I got told by my friends before do not cry about the relationship boys don't like it when you cry How are you not meant to cry if you're just like? Lost this good thing. How how do you fight back those tears?

Like, I don't get it. I'm not a man. I'm not gonna just hold my tears because of masculinity. You know what I mean? And they're like, yeah, don't do it because don't do it because you're, you know, they don't wanna see you cry.

They get awkward, which is probably true. Like, yeah, I get it. Well, then you shouldn't have hurt me in the first place. Yeah, but you're the one wanting to get back with it. We'll stay with them. We'll have the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. As for me or just in general, to be honest, when is the right time to just stop seeking closure?

When does it get enough? Well, if you're really ready, you know, but that's hard to tell when you've had a breakup to stop seeking the closure. I would just think about it a lot yourself and try to pick out be self aware. Try to pick out your things. Make a decision on like three, okay, maybe even two. Don't put too many reasons because I'm sure there aren't and you're beating yourself up for nothing. You know, pick two reasons and be like, maybe I could have done that better. That's it. But I wouldn't blame yourself for anything. And then try to move on and distract yourself. Yeah, distractions actually key. It's one of the first steps of the break up diet.

Yeah, I think distraction. Yeah, it's not healthy, but it definitely does help because you get them out of your head. But you can distract yourself in like healthy ways like gym, hanging out with your friends. Work. Yeah. Get a new like hobby. That's something you should- Hundred percent.

I think if you're dwelling too long about this stupid closure, it's because you're not busy enough. Get another job. If you've got a job get another one yeah you have to be so over busy that you just don't even have time to think about it yeah focus on the rebrand focus on the glow up focus on the diet you know this actually idea for me for me came up because i had that breakup i had like a mini breakup, not a full breakup, but I had a mini breakup and I was like, brilliant, I'm gonna actually do the podcast. And that's when we met.

We also met at the divorce and I was like, I know Ilma is just the perfect person to be on this and do it. Yeah, I think like we were both kind of experienced heartbreak and different contacts at the same time. Yeah. Yours is a lot more extreme than mine, but my- Yours still is valid.

Situation, not situationship, but like relationship breakups, situationship breakups, all of it. Divorce breakups, they're all hard. Yeah. It doesn't matter really, cause that's the thing we want to normalise on this podcast is every breakup is valid. It doesn't have to be just because you didn't feel like the divorce one is obviously super, super intense.

So was the relationship. Yeah. And so is the situationship and you're allowed to feel bad and feel hurt even if it wasn't a boyfriend or a husband. Yeah. It was still someone that you spend such a long time with. I don't think we should stigmatize on the situationship breakups anymore.

Yeah, and also like imagine, like you still had sex with them. Yeah, you had like feelings for them. You had a connection. You really thought that you were gonna have a future or something. You really liked them at some point. So I think it's awful when you can't you know cry about

a situationship or feel like oh this is so silly that you know I'm feeling this side about a relationship. Okay Ilma do you have any tips for if somebody was going for a closer conversation they secretly want to get back with their ex maybe, or they're not sure. Doesn't really matter. They still, you still want to look good. What are you doing? Do you have any tips? Well, I'm hoping by then when you're seeking that closure, the breakup diets

kicked in, you're looking good. You're at the gym, you're looking after your appearance, you're feeling good. You're journaling, you're seeing a therapist, you're mentally strong enough to face your ex, I say, yeah, go for it. If you haven't done that, don't even seek. Like don't even start looking for a closure. You're not gonna get it. It's terrible for your mental health.

Not worth it. What about you? Yeah, you're too, to go on to that, you're too unstable. So then throw like a grenade in there, because that's the X of the grenade, then you're asking. You're asking for it. 100% if you feel like you're not over... oh, just don't. Yeah, I feel like you have to... for a closure conversation, so you have the breakup, it has to be...

even... it could be as close as a week after but like a whole week after so you break up on the Sunday you don't see them until that next Sunday so you have like a week to process stuff a bit. That's a hard week I can't lie that first week after the break up. Yeah that's honestly the worst thing. It's the worst thing ever. But my tips for if you're going to, like you're going to this closure conversation.

Okay, so first, I would obviously be doing all the prep. So my hair's being done, nice. Even if you're not getting a blowout, I'm gonna, actually no, get a blowout. I think I would cheat yourself. Yeah, you feel so amazing like that salon, you know Wind in your hair vibe then the night before I'd be going to bed earlier would not be going out and not be drinking So that way you're you know calm you've well rested

You know, you're thinking about your points maybe drop drop down your points. Just to even journal, you know? Just so you're very clear, because sometimes when you go into those conversations, you can get like overwhelmed. Yeah, I think when you write things down, you have a clearer idea on what to say about a plan, so you're not like brain dead. Yeah.

Yeah, like you said, so much going on that you can't vocabularise. Yeah, so much. Yeah, like you said, so much going on that you can't vocabularies. Yeah, and you also forget, you forget half the stuff like, you're, you're there, they say one thing and you're just there like, why? That's it. But then you can't say anything else. Yeah, you never asked them what you wanted to ask and you still don't get the closure.

Yeah. So, jot it down in your notes, your bullet points or such, you know? And I wouldn't be putting down points of why or you did this. Because I feel like people mess up when they go into something, they go into these closure conversations and they are like, you did this, you're bad, you're the problem, Loki, you know what I mean?

But that other person isn't gonna respond well to that. No, don't be on the defense mode, just be there calm and neutral. If you're looking to fight, then don't even leave the house. You look dumb. Yeah, literally. And they're just gonna react bad. Yeah it's just gonna end terribly and you don't need that kind of toxicity in

your life like come on we're growing up now. Yeah yeah yeah because what are they really what would you say? Say you were yelled at by your ex being like you're the problem you did this you that, you're gonna be like, why do you even wanna have this conversation if you think I'm such a horrible human? It's like, why'd you reach out to me if you think I'm such a horrible human? Like what, like.

Yeah, why do you wanna be with me then if you think I'm such a horrible human? Like, leave me alone. Just like a bitch about me, fine, don't like drag me out of my house for this stupid conversation. Yeah, and another thing that obviously, when you're're going a tip, when you're going to this conversation, I would be looking hot. Definitely. When you look good, you feel good. You like

have better delivery in what you need to say. And don't have sex with them when you're... I wouldn't. No, that's like against the breakup diet. We're here on a cleanse, that's what the diet does. Don't let that in. No, don't. And then, yeah, don't be a pick-me-girl in the conversation. And just like as an interest of self-respect, like do you really want to be picked by a guy that didn't want you? I'm sorry if he dumped you, he didn't want you, why are you like, please like closure and um Like let's like see if we can be like friends or like something more. Yeah, no. Also don't be friends, stuff that. Oh, yeah exes can never be friends.

Yeah, like sorry, but maybe years down the line, I could see that maybe, but still, no, don't like it. Go away, go away. Because there's gonna be weird sexual tension and someone's gonna give in. That's just how it happens. Yeah, and also it's just, it's weird. I don't think it's appropriate

and you'll never move on and find someone Yeah, you're sensitive to how they feel to even if you don't want to be with them or something like you imagine you're talking to this guy, but then you run into your ex and You're probably gonna be like thinking about your ex a little bit and lose that maybe good guy the other one How you gonna make room for something new and better when you still have that deadbeat person that didn't want you? Yeah. I have a story for my own personal closure conversation.

So broke up, very sad, very abrupt, was like, anyway, really sad. Then I was like, we're gonna have a closure conversation. Wasn't called a closure conversation, but it was like, we're gonna speak on the Sunday following. Anyway, before that we had a call on FaceTime. Not on the Sunday, but like on the Thursday. Just a check-in kind of thing because- Did you have your makeup done for the FaceTime? I sat in front of a big window where there was light,

no joke, I didn't know that this call was gonna be on FaceTime but I just had a gut feeling and I was like, I need to look great. Answered the phone call and this is what I was gonna say earlier that I forgot is I was so calm and so tranquil he wasn't expecting that so it hit him by surprise and he was like what and that's how I won the relationship oh I love that yes yes and then and then he was like I was like why you why I don't know if he's gonna get annoyed from me saying this but like why are you bothering about all the stuff?

Like what happened whatever like I'm over that we can get past that it's We enjoy spending time together and that's the fact and so why are we doing any different oh That's really sweet. And then yeah, we went for the closure conversation, looked fire, wore the jeans he likes, hello, and then bang, it was a bit awkward for a while, a little bit. And then slowly you kind of rebuild that trust in that person and the... I couldn't even tell you what I wanted closure about now.

But I think when the person's right for you, sometimes you do end up having these short little like blips and then you come back stronger than ever. Yeah, because obviously if you're in a relationship, it's not always going to be good because even as a person, you're not always good. No, no, no. One day you're bad, one day you're this, you know, you don't know what happens. So how would you expect your relationship to be like that? Exactly. Like we have so many spectrums of emotions when you've got two people in it together.

It's never going to be the smooth amazing thing. Okay. Have you ever looked back at say a situationship or something and you have like a closure with them and you realised oh that was a waste of my time. I didn't need that closure to move on. Like why was I so desperate? No because I've never had a closure conversation with a situation ship. It's kind of just ended and then I've seeked closure within myself but not found it and then maybe a few years down the line I'd be like, you're actually not that great anyway. I had the, you know, that I was in

the dick sand. Not in the dick sand now. Oh the dick sands are rough sand to get out of. Yeah then when you realise you're like why and did I really do that? Have you ever had, because I know you've had a friendship breakup. Yes. Have you had a closure conversation with a friend? Okay, basically we did have a closure phone call, but it just wasn't enough to me. I wanted to know more because that closure conversation, I received all this new information about I guess my character and I never like saw myself that way and I thought wait what like I need to know more like why? No, Elma this is always your question you don't need to

know why you don't need to know more you're you're never going to be happy with... That's true. I mean you are gonna be happy Elma but I mean you're never to be happy with. That's true. I mean you are going to be happy, Ilba, but I mean you're never going to be happy with the answer because you're always going to be like why but this but that you've got to do some self-development. Oh 100% which is probably why I've been too like oh I don't need a relationship anymore and I don't really care for like if a friendship breaks up its breaks up But because it was like my first like friendship breakup as an adult. Yeah, it hits you differently doesn't it? Yeah Do you think closure is just?

Something that you need for yourself and do you think or do you think it's a necessary step? Really is it something that you should do? A closure conversation or should you find it within yourself? Obviously you can say the more healthy way and but what do you actually think? I think I think after experiencing everything that I have in the context of breakups and closures, I don't think it's necessary anymore. If someone doesn't want you, why should you want them? Why do you need... Oh my god, here's the why questions. Why do you need them? Yeah, it's hard not to. You want to see them even that last time, but it never goes the way that you want it to, or expect it to, even if you end up back together or whatever, it still doesn't play

out the way that you played it out in your head. Yeah, I completely agree. The temptation's there, but I think you need to really humble and ground yourself and realise, look, this didn't work for a reason. Why am I choosing a path of self-destruction by going back to them and inviting that energy again? It's not worth it. Yeah, there's, um, is it Matt Hussey? I like his stuff, like I've watched his stuff and he, um, was saying there's nothing more dangerous than an ex that reappears, like keeps reappearing because it's stopping you find, I don't know if he said this exact stuff but this is what I took from it, it stops you finding the next person because you waste so much time you know

just on that wasted cause. Yeah and you're wasting energy so that you don't have energy to date again. Yeah. I feel like when you're having a, like a, no, I forgot what I was going to say. It's gone. I feel like it's done anyway. I feel like we're done. Yep. This is the closure. The closure is we're done with this episode. We're done with talking about closure.

You don't need it. We still love ya. Yeah. And you don't need it, but we get it if you want it. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Ha.