The Break-Up Diet - Short Kings & Situationships: Why the Bare Minimum Hurts So Much with Hope Flynn

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

Hope Flynn, relationship expert and founder of the So What Community, joins us for a raw, unfiltered conversation about navigating the aftermath of relationships. Her remarkable insight comes not just from professional expertise, but from personal experience—including an on-again, off-again relationship that took eight years to fully end.We dive deep into the psychology of attachment, exploring why those brief "situationships" sometimes leave deeper scars than long-term partnerships. As Hope explains, it's those unresolved "what ifs" that keep us tethered to short-lived connections, while longer relationships often provide clearer closure because "you've tried everything."The conversation takes surprising turns as we discuss the modern complications of healing in the social media age. Hope advocates for setting boundaries—sometimes including the block button—as an act of self-preservation rather than pettiness. "I don't really block people," she shares, "but every now and again some people have to get blocked, not because of them, but for yourself."Perhaps most comforting is Hope's perspective on grief following breakups. She normalizes the waves of emotion that come with losing a relationship, reminding us that mourning someone who's still alive creates a unique kind of pain. Her advice to those currently nursing heartbreak emphasizes self-compassion: don't rush the process or compare your healing timeline to others.Whether you're currently nursing a broken heart or trying to understand patterns in your past relationships, this conversation offers both comfort and clarity. Listen now to gain practical insights on moving forward while honoring the love that once was.Send us a textInstagram:@the_breakup_dietTikTok:@thebreakupdietEmail: [e-mail]

Welcome back to another episode of The Breakup Diet. We've got an amazing guest on the show. We've got a relationship expert and the founder of So What Community. Hopeful and welcome to The Breakup Diet. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. We're so excited to have you here. I did like a bit of a deep dive on you on Google and you were celibate for a while. Yeah. Why is that? Not now. Okay, that's good.

But was that because of a breakup or just what? I'd say a few little situationships, but really it was for me. It wasn't because of a guy or anything for anyone in particular, but I just needed a minute. What have you learned from celibacy because I'm going through that journey at the moment I really love it and I don't know how I could go back to being intimate so what was it like for you from being in that journey? I think being celibate for me shows me the kind of importance of sex and how important it is and how sacred it is. I actually saw something about that recently with um it was actually on tour so not that reason but like a little bit ago and it says that the person stays in your womb 50 years

later. Yeah a man's DNA can come inside you and in your touch. Yeah, some people they never leave your head. Baby, living up the rent free. For real. Yeah, the celibacy journey, you know, I'm not like telling everyone they should do it or anything like that, but I just think it's important to have periods of time to yourself without sexually engaging with someone.

Be free, sleep with who you want, but if you're in the right head space, I would just say my celibacy was more about me and where I was at at that time. Yeah, I so get that. Have you ever had a rebound? Probably. No, not intentionally. Like I've never just been like, oh, I'm going to sleep with this person because I need to get over someone else. I've never done that.

Would you say it's a conscious decision for you to kind of take a step back after a breakup? Definitely, because, oh, I remember once, yeah, I had a breakup and then I went out on a date with someone else and I actually cried on the date over the other guy and the guy was like, oh, why are you upset? And I was, I made up the like, it's the most obvious lie. I was like, my cousin's dog just died and he was like a really big part of our family.

But like, again, that's showing, I went on a date too soon. That I was sitting there thinking, I just wanna be with the guy that I broke up with. Have you had a lot of breakups? I've had a few breakups and a few, let's just call them little plot twists. Not breakups. But you know, I've dated quite a few, let's just call them little plot twists, not breakups.

But you know, I've dated quite a few people and I've had quite a few serious relationships. So yeah. Would you say breakups get easier the more you have them? Because I've only had two breakups and both of them has like rearranged my nervous system. I would say every relationship is different. So every breakup is different

and how you feel towards someone and how your relationship went and the reasons why you've decided to break up, they're never gonna be the same. I haven't had that many more than two, but I've definitely had those situations ships where, you know, there's been a breakdown. They don't get easier. it's just different every time.

Oh. No. No. No. You know, there are some, I remember not even so long ago, my friend was like, oh, how are you feeling after everything? And I was like, after what? And she's like, well, you stopped seeing that guy.

And I was like, oh, oh yeah. He's already got a lot of them. Some of them you don't remember, but then some you just don't get off your mind. Like we were saying, they just live rent free in your head. Yeah, what is that? Also, it's not the people that you least expect, I feel, that stay in your head for so long.

Why the good guy that was actually maybe a catch? He just goes, you're sad, but then it goes. But the one that's not a catch, you'll goes, like you're sad but then it goes. But like the one that's like not a catch, you'll be thinking about him for the next six months. We like the bad guys. And for me personally, it's those short sort of relationships that I- I can remember saying short kings and I'm like,

oh I've been there. I've been there with the short kings. They leave a mark. The shorter they are, the bigger the mark. A little short but mighty. Yeah. A small imprint, let's just call it that. Those short relationships, sometimes I find more difficult to move on from

because you're left with so many like, oh this could have happened or that could have happened but when you're in a long-term relationship and that breaks down, you've kind of tried everything. That's actually such a good way of thinking about it. I never thought about that. That makes so much sense. It's the what-if because we live in that sort of fantasy land of like, oh we could have done this or we could have been this but like and then you never know and then that's what makes us crazy. And I think that's when you have to really ground yourself with reality because unfortunately the reality is it didn't work out.

What's the point in letting this fantasy brew in your head? You really got to take a step back and reflect and be like, okay, this hasn't worked out. Let me just take a breather. Personally, I always think like, what if, or that could have been, or so that I find it so hard to be like, no, Yasmin, focus. All you got to do is actually just think about the reality and it makes you let go of the fantasy because... But fantasy is always better than reality.

Reality never lives up to fantasy, but it's very hard. Do you have any tips on how to let go of the fantasy? I'll be honest. So social media is really difficult because back in the day when I first started dating we didn't have all this stuff so you wouldn't see that person continually you know maybe occasionally if you bumped into them on the street or you're mixing in the same circles but now that you have social media and everyone seems to have an online presence sorry you're constantly reminded and it's it's really hard so I don't really block people but

every now and again some people have to get blocked and not because of them but for yourself I think blocking is good I think so too you don't need to know everything about them I don't care mute that yeah yeah outside release me because it's like, honestly, there's nothing worse than an embarrassing ex and people bring up what they're up to. And it's like more embarrassing. Like the saviours of a breakup and how I got over someone was he made his Instagram private. And that was like a godsend. It really, like because I was in that phase of, you know, checking, stalking, seeing what he was up to, and that just, that wasn't good for me.

So him going private, like saved my soul. So you unfollowed and then he went private? Yeah, because I think like, that's part of the breakup, no. You don't follow your exes after the breakup. No, no, no, I know. I know I've liked someone because I'll have to unfollow them.

If I'm cool with you being on my social media after a breakdown, I work that into you. Yeah. I agree. I'm so like that. If I have a breakup, I will delete every single number, every single conversation.

Oh, do you? Yeah, but my friends, some of my, one of my good friends, she never deletes anything so she has all her conversations from like her first ever boyfriend and it's actually kind of fun to look at now like she doesn't care. Actually I probably don't have any of that because I just need to free up some storage on my phone but I've got a little memory box like you know. An xbox. An xbox. The female version of an Xbox.

What's in your Xbox? Well, actually, it probably hasn't been updated for ages because now everything's on our phones. So I've got some photos, like, you know, little things when you go to, like, the theatre or out on a date and things like that. What would you do if your new boyfriend, say you got a new boyfriend and, like... Hypothetically. Hypothetically, they found that box and things like that. What would you do if your new boyfriend, and say you got a new boyfriend and like, hypothetically, they found that box and were like, why do you have all these pictures of these other boys in under your bed?

I don't think anyone should have an issue with that. I've even got like roses in that box because I remember. Petals. Yeah, rose petals from some guys. So it's like, pupery. Yeah, because I thought in my head at the time I kept them and dried them out, because I remember- The petals. Yeah, rose petals from some guys. So it's like, pupa-y. Yeah, because I thought in my head at the time I kept them and dried them out, because I was like, oh, if we get married,

the flower girl can do it. I should probably get rid of them, actually. But you know, it's part of your past. People have to accept your past. I'm not sitting looking through the box all the time and sleeping with photos under my pillow. It's just like, it's a memory box. And it doesn't just have, it's a memory box and it doesn't just have,

it's not just a memory box exclusive for men. It's got other little things in my life. I was thinking it was just purely for that one ex or like a few. No and I named them all. Would you be annoyed if you found it at a boys house? Like all these things? Oh, something just popped into my mind. So you know I have my So What community and I get a lot of people reach out to me. This one girl, she was like, I need your help. I'm dating this guy and on his laptop,

I've come across a folder and then within the folder, there's all different folders named with all his exes nudes in. I've heard that before, I've heard that before. Was it from my page? No, no, no, no, no, I've actually just heard it from someone. It's for me, like obviously there's, you know,

people have photos. That is such a violation and I kind of feel like that could be a crime. Well, listen, I've definitely got nudes from people that they've sent me on my phone. I don't sit and like, it's the organisation of it that freaks me out. And the naming and putting them into little folders

and like categorising it, that's what gives me the heebie-jeebies. Yeah, like today I'm gonna look up Vanessa, like no, no. That's the creepy bit. If they were like on the photo app, not you know on like your iPhone or whatever And then like a leader. Yeah, you know, oh, do you know? Do you know what? I've probably got to delete some stuff, but you know you send nudes and you have to

Be aware of the fact that they may stay with that person. So that's why I'm a big fan of no face No case. Yeah for that's why I'm a big fan of no face no case yeah that's number one never my face I've actually never sent a nude to Yoli for this reason you just can't trust where these will go I miss I miss having someone to send nudes to my ex he would take pictures of me without me knowing no that that's a crime. That's so bad. That's so bad. He was my first boyfriend. So you don't know, yeah. And I didn't know how to like bring it up.

Wait, you mean like naturally and you're chilling and he takes a photo or, because I've had a situation and I was in the shower and a guy, I caught a guy taking a photograph of me. No, like I'd just be like, putting clothes in my drawer and I just see like, and like I look so unaware. Was he trying to do it candid? Like when you were nude or something?

Or like- Completely, like getting clothes out of my drawer. I would break up with somebody on that offense. I'm a bit divided with this one to be honest. This was my first boyfriend so I was really naive and I was such a like pick me girl, I needed to be picked. I don't, like I just said, I'm a little bit divided on this one.

Yes, you, you know, people, you should have permission to take photographs, but if he was your boyfriend, he might have seen it as like a nice candid photo. I'm sorry, in the nude context. It's all in nude, no. Consent, consent is a big thing for that. Okay. Okay.

Okay. You'll let us have it, right? Thank you. You don't agree with it. I'm just gonna agree with it right now. I understand consent and we bring all those elements into it, but however, I've been in relationships and, you know, I've been naked and a guy's just wanted to take a nice candid photo of me.

Like, it's not being creepy. But I think that's maybe different if you're like on the bed or something, you're putting your washing into your, into your covers. Yeah, like my laundry into my wardrobe. Bent over, like, no. So with your breakups, have you ever had one that's like really stuck with you and you didn't know why?

Yeah, I had one that took me about eight years to break up. Oh! We just get- Wait, it me about eight years to break up. Oh! Wait, it took you eight years to break up or to get over? Literally, both. I don't know, the timing's so confusing. Were you on and off again? On and off, on and off, this happened, that happened,

can't stay away, this. I just never thought I'd get over him, but I did. Why did you think you were on and off? Why didn't you just have one? Were you scared? No, because there was external factors to our breakup. It wasn't that there was a breakdown in love or a breakdown of care for each other.

So I think that was hard. Do you think that was healthy or just no? Absolutely not. No, there's nothing healthy about that, not at all. It was really hard and damaging. It's such a heroin hit, if that makes sense. Like the high of a toxic relationship but then equally the lows. And then you're so used to like

being high and low like you said that when you meet someone and they give you stability it seems flat and boring. Yeah. And that's bad. Yeah because with these relationships the highest of highs are compensated by the lowest lows. It's an addiction. Yeah, it is. I had it once, really badly low, like a situationship, and they just like weren't that interested in me basically, to put it blunt. But like I just remember like sat here like being so upset

and my mum was like looking at me like, are you okay? I'm like, no. I'm just dead. You know when you just feel dead? Or you wanna die. Yeah. Because it hurts so much. But do you know what?

I think there's something beautiful in that. You're so upset and you're hurt and you cry. It just shows you that you was in someone and you have that love in you. There's beauty in passion. Yeah. And I think that's- There's beauty in passion. Yeah. And we need to celebrate passion.

Everyone's too busy being nonchalant. Exactly, and pretending they don't care. I would say one thing that's been really important for me, I don't know where I came across this or if someone gave me this piece of advice, but just recogn recognizing and understanding that grief comes with relationships. There's this kind of idea that grief is,

exclusive to death. The relationship died. So you have to go through that grieving process and that comes in waves and highs and lows. Yeah, you're mourning. You're mourning. You are mourning. And we said previously, you're mourning someone that's alive.

Yeah. That is so much more complex. It is, because you can accept that someone's dead, right? There's a clear answer, but when someone's alive, ah! Like, the fact that you can reach out to them if you want to, but you know it's not a good idea, as opposed to when they're dead, there's nothing. Yeah, and also when you think that you can reach out to them, it's so tempting too as well,

and you wanna do it because you think, maybe they'll be thinking the same thing, or maybe they really miss me too, and then if you get pied again, or it's even worse, you're like, oh. Ignored. God, it's so hard. It is hard, but relationships are not easy. They are not easy. They are not easy.

They are so complicated, and I feel like no two relationships are the same, so sometimes I can talk to people about it, but no one would really know. The thing is, you can discuss it with your friends, and maybe they should just listen, but no one else is actually in it, and no one can make the decision for you,

even though it sucks, because I'd love for people to make the decision for me I'm such a like pushover yeah and you always get you know you always get that friend that really hates them is quite like stern and like no you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that and then sometimes you have another friend and it's a bit confusing but you just have to kind of do you I think deep down we all know what's right and what's wrong and trust your gut. Intuition is everything. What would you say to somebody that didn't know, like that was confused? Oh. Because you know what if they don't know? I think then you've just got

to try it all out and see for yourself. You know because you can tell a friend a million times like don't reach out to someone, no I don't think you tell a friend a million times, like, don't reach out to someone. No, I don't think you should message them. Don't do this. Don't do that. And then if that person is still thinking about it all the time and doesn't give it a go, then they'll never know. So just do what you've got to do and see what happens if you're confused. Act out on your intuition. I think that's what I say. Yeah. Yeah.

And if someone's like messing up someone's messing up your nervous system, like making you feel anxious and on edge, then they're not right for you. With one of my exes, I would get the most horrible cases of UTI. Oh really? And I honestly thought that- What, from sex you mean?

Yeah. Okay. So I thought it was like a me problem, and then I also thought that I had vaginismus But then it told me there's what is vaginismus. It's when like you're just so tense that it Sex doesn't work. You can't have sex. She's literally not opening up. Yeah Yeah, and then like after that ended and I started like, you know dating again. I'm like wait I have a normal all this time It's a him problem. Well, for sure him problems the chemistry between you. It just wasn't there. Yeah

Wild you shocked me with that. Yeah, it's crazy. It makes sense though. It does a man can literally Make your vagina sharp. Yeah like, glued. Nothing. I want to ask you about closure and what you think about closure. Like do you think it's a good thing? Do you think people need it? Yeah I believe closure is good and it is nice to like wrap up situations but I think sometimes we have to accept that closure comes from within yeah because sometimes people just aren't willing to give you it. I think personally for me closure is if he doesn't like you that should be enough. I don't need... so you've got the closure. Yeah like him not wanting me anymore is enough closure for me because

there's no way in hell I'm gonna chase someone who doesn't want me. I'll chase someone if they want me, of course. Yeah, you know it is hard though. I'm such a lover girl like that, but There's a massive rise in in ghosting and stuff and you know, I think ghosting and having closure Kind of go hand in hand because when someone just disappears and you don't have the answers and you have to figure them out for yourself, it is really hard. But yeah, let's see closure like an expensive handbag that we all want, but sometimes you just can't get it. If you're a gentleman or if you're a nice lady, you give that person a sort of...

Communicate. Yeah, it's always communication. That's what a role model is starting to do. I say it time and time again, but everything comes down to communication. And that's like one of my biggest red flags actually in dating is a change in communication. Now I have been in situations and relationships where,

you know, sometimes you WhatsApp the person all day. And then I've been in situations and relationships where, you know, sometimes you WhatsApp the person all day and then I've been in other relationships where that person might just call me once, but that's our communication style. It's when there's a change in it. So it's like, I don't need someone to message me all day. I can quite happily take the one phone call a day, but if that wasn't their original style and then there's a change, hmm. It's really hard because with one of my boyfriends we would call each other every night, recap our day and then suddenly he just would

stop calling and that's when I'd realise oh fuck. That's the change, that's where the change is. It's the change in communication and that's always like a signal and a red flag to me. The calls suddenly stop. This is so insightful, I'm like learning. Yeah. And what does that mean, that it's, they're checked out? It means it's like, it's a slow fade breakup basically. Yeah, something's changed or something's happened or they're not interested.

It's just them showing that they've pulled back. That does make sense. There's no good morning texts anymore. There's no how was your day or that kind of thing. It just all goes back and then you ask them, hey, when am I gonna see you next? They come back with, don't know. Oh, I actually, I'm really not a fan of this whole WhatsApp

or that constant messaging. I've realized anytime I've had that, it's just game over. If that happens from the start, it's kind of game over. I'm attached to easily. Yeah, because realistically, let's think long term. How are you gonna talk to someone all day? Yeah, you can't. Like, it's just not realistic.

I'm more that kind of just pick up the phone to me like twice a day and let's have a little recap. I like a phone call. That's nice, yeah. Oh, I can't say. I was just laughing because I was thinking, we have that relationship, like we talk all the time because I message Elmer all the time, like, yeah.

That's girl talk. That's girls, it's safe space. Yeah, that's different. You know, even with friendships, when you're feeling exhausted by them, you're not responding in the same way and that's a breakdown of a friendship, so it's probably happened with other friends.

Friendship breakups, right? What's worse? They are hard. Friendship breakups, I think. I think friendship breakups, because friends, best friends, you fantasize your life with them. You fantasize them being your bridesmaid, them being like your kid's godmothers. Like that is a forever commitment and when that friend goes

What if it's like a friend that you went into a business with? Yeah, if we had a breakup Have you had a business friendship breakup? Yeah. Oh no, I probably had every breakup you can imagine What's your worst one the business breakup very difficult a romantic breakup very difficult They're all bad, friends, like family, like everything. Actually there's one thing that we don't really hear often, how do you bounce back from a friendship or a business breakup? You just got to keep going. Like me, here I am. Do you have any revenge plans? No, no, I don't have a revenge plan, especially in business or if you've got an idea or let's

say for instance you two with this podcast, like if it's something you believe in and you want to do but one of the other one steps away, you keep going because that is what you believed in. Just because someone's walked away, it doesn't take away your beliefs or what you want to achieve. Chin up, crown up. Yeah, just keep going. That's really inspiring because it's so easy for you to just lose motivation. Oh, it is, it's difficult to lose,

like to keep going and you often do lose motivation and you have tough days. Especially because like, even being a content creator, you need a partner to do it with. I had a fallout with that partner. My Instagram died because of that friendship, I can't lie. You think that, oh, I won't find anyone as good as her who will take my content as good as her.

It is difficult when you've built something with someone and you have your way of working so even letting someone else in, just like a relationship, letting someone new in, it's gonna be different. And I guess with like my business and my stuff and having that breakup, let's call it, yeah, I guess I've been riding solo and going celibate with that because I haven't met a new business partner or welcomed anyone else in that way.

Are you in the stage of looking for someone to expand so what community with? No, not in a duro way. No. More like your CEO and their CFO? No, like that is the communities, it's like a team of people building. I guess I'm just, I'm not the CEO or I'm not the whatever, I'm just the the person that guides the others, let's say. No, they guide me, it's the whole community. But yeah, someone else to help me with the social media

and all that stuff, that would be very nice and handy. Can you tell us about So What Community a bit more and like what it is and everything? So What Community is a female led community. It's a safe space for women to discuss all their breakups, their relationships, their dilemmas, their dramas, like anything. I've had the craziest messages about everything and it's a really beautiful place for sharing information and a lot of people want to help each other.

I wish I had this page when I was going through a divorce because there's a lot of stuff that your community's posted about financial abuse in a relationship and I'm like a pretty bad victim of that. I go into difficult conversations but I try to present these topics in a way that isn't so big and scary and it's a nice space for people to feel heard and understood. And my one thing with my community is like no one is ever alone. No matter how, what you're going through or like anything you've experienced, there's always someone out there that's had something a little bit similar.

And it's bonkers. It could be the most craziest thing. Although there is something going on on my page at the minute that I don't think anyone else has ever done or experienced. But it's this girl getting revenge. She's getting revenge to her HR manager at work. So she's left that workplace. I think they fired her. So she's actually now taking them to a tribunal, but she's found her HR's manager's son on

a dating app and started dating him. That is messy. That is revenge level 1000. And the poor, you know, I think the poor boy, I told her straight away, I said it's really not fair on him. You're using him to get at his mother. That is wild. Playing with fire on another level.

That's like a movie. Truly. So even people like that feel comfortable enough to come to my page. Wait, so I'm confused with the page. What I'm envisioning this might be completely wrong. Is it like- Reddit for hot girls. Yeah, is it like Reddit so then they can all see

what other people write and you can- No, so I keep a lot of things anonymized. So I kind of, people give me all their information and I sort of filter out what goes out. So I'll run a lot of stuff on the stories and we have, like I'll do the question box and then people respond and then, you know, even things I don't agree with, I share because that is still someone's opinion and not everything I say is right, or the way that things should happen. But yeah, it's very interesting. I get a lot of data on women.

I have a stat for everything, everything. Like a folder, like the news folder. Yeah, I do. I have a big Excel spreadsheet full of like every question that I've asked, how many people responded and the percentage rates. So you could literally, I know how many of my followers had sex last week.

I know how many of my followers have been on the pill. I know how many of my followers don't shit regularly. Like literally, I have a stat for everything. Do you have any that had a breakup? Yeah, I would listen. When you talk about dating and relationships a lot, that's how I became a dating and relationships expert from talking about it constantly for like the last however many years. relationships a lot. That's how I became a dating and relationships expert. From talking

about it constantly for like the last however many years. This is a really random question so don't worry if you don't have an answer but like is there a season that people break up more commonly in? But I might be wrong. I do believe that it's around the holiday period like the fest- like Christmas time. Ah interesting. But I might be wrong. I think I've heard that before in general when I've

like looked at it. Don't quote me on that but that kind of period of time. It makes sense though like going home to the family and you're like not sure on your maybe current boyfriend. Yeah I guess sometimes it is anytime there's something special or important you start to evaluate like oh is this person for me or also it's just to get out of getting them a present but I would think I would want someone more in the winter and I'd want to be single in the summer yeah I was thinking maybe it was like now too. Do you have any tips for somebody going through a breakup like right now you're like go to tips yeah just let it out be you don't compare yourself to your friend who you know

got over the relationship quickly and like I said earlier you have to grieve. If you've ever lost someone we know that it comes in waves, the emotions, just go with it but just be kind to yourself. No it's really hard and it hurts but it happens and we've got to get on. So give yourself time but not too much time, you know Don't be waiting two years. Thank you so much. Sorry for messing up the middle. No Where did this handbag thing come from?