The Break-Up Diet - Why You Keep Dating the Same Man in a Different Body ft. Jessica Ella

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

This week on The Break Up Diet, Yaz and Ilmz sit down with women’s trauma expert and author Jessica Ella to unpack the real reason your dating history looks like the same man copy pasted into different bodies.If you’ve ever said, “How do I keep ending up with this guy?” girl, this is your episode.Jessica breaks down why your brain (and your nervous system) gets hooked on people who feel “familiar”… even when “familiar” is actually toxic. We get into trauma bonds, attachment wounds, love bombing, anxious avoidant chaos, and why the “nice guy” gives you the ick when your body is addicted to red flag energy.Jessica also shares her own story, the kind that hits you straight in the chest, and how she turned some of her darkest moments into real, goosebump level strength.This episode is part therapy session, part reality check, and part girl talk intervention.You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, you’ll feel painfully seen… and you might rethink every situationship you’ve ever been in.⚠️ Listen with caution:Some parts may feel heavy or confronting. We talk about trauma, emotional abuse cycles, and toxic patterns, so take care of yourself while you listen.If you’re ready to break the cycle and finally stop confusing chaos with chemistry… this is your sign. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Before we begin, we'd like to advise that this episode contains discussions of sexual violence. Yeah, so if that is something that you've had or know somebody that's had, can you please listen with caution and just be aware that this is quite a deep episode. So be mindful of that and stay safe and stay supported, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Breakup Diet. This is Yazan Ilms, and today we are joined by Jessica Ella, women's trauma expert, speaker, author, and another podcast host. How are you? I'm so good. How are you? Good. Oh my gosh. We are so excited to have you on to talk about all things. Trauma,

recovering from heartbreak, going from surviving to thriving. It's going to be a deep one. Yes. Absolutely. I don't think I have another setting. I think it's just, all in. That's good, though. Perfect, because it's either like, yeah, all or nothing, really for most. That is definitely you. Yeah, Alma's the exact same, so don't worry, she's all or nothing. I love that, yeah. Let's switch it up. We've been holding back way too much. Welcome to the breakup diet. Okay, so I have a question for you to start off. You often talk about turning pain into power. What does that mean for somebody, especially going through heartbreak? Yeah, I guess the way that I always perceive heartbreak specifically is like it's that redirection. So, you know, we're taking that pain,

but if we actually start to use it as information instead of an overwhelming feeling, we can actually start to turn it into power because we can look at, well, why didn't that relationship work? A lot of the time when people break up, they're like, oh, I miss them and I love them and they're amazing. And they forget about all of the other shit that happened in the relationship, and they go into their feelings. And granted, we have to grieve, we have to feel, but also we have to evaluate why were we attracted to that person in the first place? And were they actually the right fit and did I just anxiously attached to them too quickly? Or, you know, why did this breakup actually happen? And what can I learn from it is probably the quickest way that you can turn pain into power

is using it as information. It's so messed up how your brain does that, though, when it like latches onto all the good and you kind of just, the bad, just disobeys. What is that about? It's just mean. No, it's horrible. That's like human nature a little bit.

But I think it's a lot of the time it comes from a few different places. Like for a lot of women, especially if it's a toxic relationship, that can be like a bit of a childhood pattern. like, you know, a parent that is like loving and they're not loving and they're kind of used to that hot and cold. A lot of the time for survival, they actually had to put that parent on a pedestal so that they still love them so that they kind of still fit into that family. So a lot of the time there's like this thing happening in our brain where it's like we just, we want to, we do just want to believe the good and focus on the good because I believe that we just want to do that because we want to have that hope. But there is also sometimes if there's a trauma background, there is that little part of like replaying a role with a parent.

Hang on, let's stop just for a sec. Subscribe and follow the breakup diet. You don't want to miss another episode. The best way to ending a pattern is honestly writing a list of the good and the bad and reflect on the relationship. And I think when you visualize those words, you're like, oh, am I worthy of being to like, like treat it like that? Yes, absolutely. And I think people replay the good in their mind. And for those people, I have plenty of clients like that. And I say to them, write a list of everything bad that

they did to you. And every time you feel those feelings coming back in, of you feeling starting to kind of guess like yourself into thinking that they were great and that the relationship was amazing, read that list again and just remind yourself like some of those realities. And a lot of the time that actually gets people through. It's kind of like a negative way to get through it, but like it's giving you those facts. I think so too, because I feel like when you rely on the reality over the fantasy, that is like the way you have your big breakthrough out of this romanticized relationship that you thought you had. A hundred percent. Absolutely. How can you get somebody? Because I have a few friends and know of a few of my friends' friends, that although,

they're in a toxic relationship and they can see it and they know the person isn't right, they really struggle to actually break it and like hear, even though they hear what you're saying, they can't, they don't act on it? Like, how can you get them to actually do that? You can't? I was going to say, like, you can't control anyone. But like, you know when they know it's so bad and they are totally aware, like it's such a hard spot even as a friend to see it When they know too, but they don't do anything about it. Can't help everyone, and people have to help themselves. Like, if they wanted to get out of it, they would have.

Yeah, and then there is like, it's again, it's like a scale. There's some people, a lot of the time people that are like really stuck in those patterns do actually have some form of relational trauma. And so there's like this pattern where they know that it feels bad and so they vent to you. but then like this part of their brain that's like I need them like it's it's almost not for some people it's not like a want it almost feels like a need like it's like I need them and that's kind of when you can tell it it's a bit of a trauma bond because it's like they're addicted to them they're like I hate them I love them like a drug like I hate it I love it I need it but I don't

know why I need it and that's normally there's like a trauma underneath that's causing them to be drawn back into that and so consciously they might be able to say to you it's shitty and they did this and they did that. But then when it actually comes back to like those survival patterns kicking in, they just find themselves. They don't even know that they're doing it. Like they'll leave the conversation and go back and then all of a sudden they're like, how do I end up back here again? And it's like a really common response to like a betrayal trauma as well, especially if they've had betrayal trauma. What would you do as a good friend? What would you do to be a good friend? Sorry, this isn't a question on the on the paper, but to be a good friend

to somebody like that, you know what I mean, to help them, when they, you think that they want out, but they don't really want out, but then they're doing this whole toxic cycle. What can you even do besides listen? I think, well, it depends who the person is, but I actually remember a friend of mine, so I'm divorced, and before I was divorced, so am I. So before I was divorced, I had this friend in, like, every week I would be like, did this and he did that and we go back and forth and one day she just said to me like I love you and like you can always talk to me but like the pattern has been the same for years and at this

point you're not a victim to it anymore you're actually choosing it now and I was like oh and so it was it was like a gut punch but it also like it really flipped my perception and I was like okay like she's right I am going in the same circles and I am choosing it and then it became that like, why am I choosing it? Like, why? Why do I keep choosing it? Do I think that I don't deserve something better? Like, where is this coming from? Why do I keep choosing it? And so you can be really direct like that if you've got a kind of a friend that can receive that, otherwise just love them as they are and let them do their thing. Yeah. So why do you think some of us are attracted to the wrong people? I think that the wrong person actually feels

like the right person in the beginning. And they were attracted to the wrong people because we're trying to heal a wound. We're trying to, a lot of the time, like these relational wounds are coming back up. We're attracted to somebody because they feel familiar and they feel familiar probably from like a parent or a caregiver in childhood. And so it's like that, that dynamic of maybe hot and cold or in and out or like emotional avoidance feels really familiar. And we're attracted to it because we're always as human beings trying to repair our wounds unconsciously. And so it's called repetition compulsion and we're just attracting this person so that so that we can try and heal that original wound. And unfortunately, because we're attracted or we're attracted to people

who are really similar to the person who created the original wound, we just keep hurting ourselves. And so it's, we're attracted to these people that are bad for us because we want to try and heal that little wound and we think that we're going to be able to do it with this new person and yeah it really actually works that's crazy so basically like the lesson is you got to go for someone that's not your usual type to break the cycle you've said previously that your usual type is not your healthiest match yes what do you mean by that i think something that i found myself saying to a few of my clients who were in toxic relationships and they were like, why do I keep attracting these bad guys? But then I go on a date with these nice guys and then they feel

boring. And I was just watching these women go through all these toxic relationships. They'd meet these nice guy. And then they'd be like, oh, no, he was too nice. So he was a bit boring. He gave me the ick. And he just wasn't my type. And I found myself one day saying to one of my clients, that's the fucking point. Like, he's not your type. Your type is assholes and he's nice. So, like, it's great that he's not your type. That's what we want to be going for now, the opposite of your traditional type. And so, yeah, that was kind of where I started to think about as well. Like, a lot of the time, if you've had this past toxic relationship cycle, if it feels really different to all the others, it's probably, that's probably a good thing.

But we feel so uncomfortable. Yeah, it's okay. I was going to say, like, we should be chasing fireplace, not fireworks, not everything has to be this crazy, like, boost of dopamine and a rush of endorphins. Like, we just need to have a regulated nervous system with the people we're with. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I don't think, you know, there's not that many people that I know that have an absolutely idyllic childhood with model parents in a model relationship and don't have any attachment

wounds with their parents. And I think, hey, my dad, final boss. Yeah. I feel like everyone's got something right. And so we're just like, we're just, we're already wounded. And then we're looking for the same feeling with these wounded men and, you know, and or women depending on who you're attracted to. But the same cycle happens no matter, no matter which sex. you're attracted to or in a relationship with like it's just wound on wound and yeah it just goes it just goes round and round until you break it and the unfortunate truth is that even when you do all of the healing work and you're finally like I don't know open enough to go on a date with a nice guy every single like resistance is going to come up and like he's boring I've got the

he did this he did that and like we become and I've watched so many women do this, so picky and so hyper-focused on little things that don't matter, that they end up, like, they end up pushing them away. And a lot of the time, it's actually not truth at all. I've worked with many clients where we've gone through and, like, literally subconsciously removed those icks. And we've actually started to, like, we've removed beliefs of he's boring and he's this and he's that. And they've ended up then in long-term relationships with them. And they laugh now at the fact that they thought that those things, were a problem in the beginning, but it's just all of those defense mechanisms coming back up to

try and protect you from a love that feels unfamiliar, but that is ironically the love that you actually always wanted and that you've been trying to get. That's so powerful. And it just comes down to the fact that you really got to train your brain. Like you steer the wheel at the end of the day. If you want something that's healthy, like you can get it if you really put your mind to it. What about, what about though, if you get tricked in, by the boring nice guy, but they're actually the toxic guy. And mine have had such an experience. We've all had that, TVH. Yes. I feel like the, I feel like there are signs. Like I have so many clients who are like, oh, he seems so nice in the side and like he loved bombed me and, you know,

he ended up being someone else. But when we actually get down to it and we actually, there were signs all along. There were signs there. We just didn't see them because it felt good and it felt good. And it felt good because it felt normal because they were toxic underneath. And so I think, yeah, I think there is always those little signs there in the beginning. But we just, again, like those, it looks like a green flag because it feels good. And it doesn't look like a red flag until later on. And then you're like, oh, yeah, okay. Hindsight shouldn't have ignored that. Yeah. With somebody that is stuck in pain and like can't seem to, you know, get out of feeling bad and not good, what's one piece of advice you have for them to, you know, feel good again and thrive and actually

be, like, happy. Oh, like stuck in the pain of heartbreak. Yeah. I think it really is, like, as I mentioned at the start, I think taking that person off the pedestal, but also, like, I think with heartbreak and the pain of heartbreak and in relationships, we get so focused on, like, where we weren't enough. And, like, we think, like, oh, they broke up with me because of this reason and this reason, and we like start to attack ourselves instead of starting to rebuild ourselves.

And I think that heartbreak is the perfect time to start to actually rebuild yourself and look at, okay, maybe they told you X, Y, Z, but is that what you actually want to believe about yourself? And, you know, starting to actually use that time to rebuild who you want to be. But also, I always think that like it's always an opportunity to look at how you actually could be better in the next relationship. Like, no one's perfect. And maybe there were things, ways that you showed up that were a little bit toxic in that relationship. I know that I always blamed my ex-husband for being an anxious avoidant, but I was a fucking anxious avoidant so bad. I did that dance with him. And so I was like, if I actually want safe love and I actually want a healthy masculine, I'm not going to attract or be attracted to or a healthy masculine man isn't going to be attracted to me if I'm this anxious avoidant up and down confusing woman. And so it was like, well, who do I have to become in order to attract the person that I desire?

I can't have this list. And I was really brutal with myself. Like, I wrote a huge list of traits that I wanted in my next partner. And if I wasn't 100% embodying and like I wasn't that myself, I was like, there's a gap there. Like, I can't expect someone else to be something that I'm not, haven't integrated myself. And so I just focused on self-work. And I focused on, like, oh, I want someone who is successful. Am I successful?

I want someone who is passionate about health and fitness. Am I doing that? Am I, like, or, you know, I want someone that's kind or empathetic. Am I being kind and empathetic or whatever it is? Are you, like, putting someone else up here to fill those needs? Or can you become that version of yourself? And then you're going to magnetize someone that is similar to you instead of trying to find it in somebody else? Basically, you've got to hold yourself.

accountable. It takes two to tango. You've got to bring exactly what you want as well. Absolutely. And that's why, you know, instead of focusing on where, like, on the pain, you can actually focus on that, like, learning and growing and, like, starting to find those gaps and break those patterns for the future. And obviously, there is a period as well where you need to feel the pain because a lot of people just move on to a new relationship straight away, or they go out partying and, you know, they skip the grieving altogether. and that doesn't work either. So there does need to be a period where actually pain isn't a bad thing.

Like we're so afraid of it and we're like, how do we get rid of this as soon as possible? But really, sometimes actually sitting in it and being like, that does hurt and that sucked. And I am heartbroken, but I know I'm going to be okay and kind of like grieving the relationship and then taking that step forward. So not bypassing it either. And I think sometimes it gets extended for people because they, don't like properly feel it. And I think like personally for me, sitting in the pain was what gave me the biggest motivation to get my shit together. I'm just like, I'm too young to be divorced.

I'm too young to feel this low. Like I should be out there living my best life, feeling like the best version of myself. Like I'm not going to let my past define me and my future. And that's like such a good mindset to have. Like, but I think as you said, you had to sit in it for a little bit. And then once you've done that, you can pull yourself out and be like, all right, what are we doing? What's next? Like, I deserve better than this. It's such a fun face to be in when you're like rebuilding yourself. It's like a fun middle like, okay, I'm going to be ABC. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to actually give a shit about what I eat. I'm going to move my body. I'm going to like mingle with people. I'm going to say yes to fun experiences. Like,

because I can. I've got the time to now. I'm not in survival mode anymore. I can now actually actively thrive. I don't think it's fun at the beginning, if I'm honest. For me personally, when I was like going through the heartbreak, the first bit of it, even though I had all these aspirations of like wanting to level up basically and like, you know, make myself better, even though I was saying yes to things and doing more things, I was like not there. Do you get what I mean? So like I would be going out with friends and like what would normally be like an amazing experience was kind of clouded by I just wasn't feeling good because I was sad. So I think it's almost, when you are going through the pain, you have to, like, go through that

process of, like, still doing stuff that you might have found fun before or whatever, and then at one point it will just be fun. Or that was maybe just me. Like, now when I go out, I have, like, amazing time. But if I did that three months ago, even if it was the exact same experience, I wouldn't have had fun. Yeah. And that's, like, the perfect example of the time where you probably, in an ideal world, would go inward. And maybe you would be like, you know what? actually don't feel like going out and having fun today. I actually feel like saying at home and crying. And so that's what I'm going to do for another week or two weeks or three weeks or whatever until I've cried so many tears that it's done. And then I'm going to actually come out

and have fun with you. But when we like push ourselves to do things because we think that we should because it's going to help us move forward. As you said, it just follows you around. So you may as well like face it and sit in it and feel it. Yeah. Can I ask you a question about how come you're a trauma expert? Yeah. I don't know if you want to know the answer, but... We want the, like, honest answer. Why you are trauma expert?

I got into healing. I was 20, so 15 years ago, when I first got into healing, I was going through... I was 20 when I got into it. I'm 35 now. Oh, my God. How have you been so, like, emotionally intelligent at age 20? I'm 35 now.

That was 15 years ago. But still. Yeah. Well, it wasn't a thing then. So my mum was quite spiritual and I was just really suffering and she'd sent me to this healer and I was a little bit skeptical. But anyway, long, through short, I left this healing session and I felt like so much had shifted. And I've always been a very logical person.

And so I went down this path of like, how did that work? Like, how did she do that? And then over the next couple of years, I just became really obsessed with like what trauma is and how it works. and I started studying and researching. And it wasn't until many years later that I realized, like, it was just me wanting to heal my own trauma. I was so obsessed with understanding trauma so that I could understand myself and heal

myself, essentially. From 20 to 30, like, just working through all of these, like, smaller traumas, learning, studying different courses. I've, like, studied breathwork and NLP and hypnosis and reconnective healing and reiki and a million more. was just obsessed. I just wanted to understand how it all worked. And it wasn't until I kind of had worked through all of these, I will call them small layers, that I uncovered a lot of repressed memories that kind of helped me to understand why I was the way I was and why I was

so obsessed with trauma. It's such a long story. But I was sexually abused by my father, so my biological father, from as early as I can remember. Maybe you're the, I hate my dad final boss not me yeah well yeah I mean actually that's like a another whole subject in itself because I feel like no because I feel like I have like forgiven not forgiven my dad because he's he's not like even remotely deserving you just kind of accepted what has accepted yeah and understand that it's happened to him and it's there's a lot of generational trauma I was I was I was sexually abused by him like from through at my entire childhood and raped by him when I was a little bit older when I was like 19.

And, but I was raped by his father and he took my virginie when I was only seven years old. And so he, like obviously his father had been abusive towards him. And so I developed really young what was called Stockholm syndrome. And instead of, instead of hating my father, I like excessively loved him. I formed almost like a romantic bond with him. I was obsessed with him. didn't want to leave his side. He was also, he's like quite a dangerous man. So he was threatened to kill me often, like tortured me. Like, yeah, just so much horrific trauma, like intense trauma

throughout my whole childhood. So that was kind of what got me working in that field and working with that level of trauma and what was like making me obsessed with it and figuring out like, how do I feel it? Because when it was all like surfacing, and when I say I recovered it, like, I used to have flashbacks throughout my whole life. Like, I had really bad PTSD, but I just, like, had found a way to cope with it. But that was, like, what really drew me to it. And that's, I guess, where I know a lot of that context of relational trauma, because I could see the ways that I'd bonded with my father affected all of my romantic relationships in my teens and 20s. And just, that was essentially the foundational, like, that was that sort of

bigger trauma. And then, like, so many other things, so many other, like, bullying and all sorts of other different traumas all throughout like literally every type of trauma you could probably imagine it's it was there and that was kind of it makes it like it makes it so easy now for me to relate to anybody's pain like when people come to me for sessions because I'm like oh yes I know what that felt like and I know what to do with that and so even though it sounds like a bit of a curse it kind of was a blessing when I started practicing how many people you've saved do you know what I'm yeah yeah it's beautiful that you can help in that way and like it's not beautiful that you can relate to it but it is that you can at least like help

others and you can connect to others in ways that not many people can and there's a lot of like a profit kind of I feel like that sometimes and I feel yeah I think a lot of mental health issues at the moment in Australia and it's probably worldwide there's people with these bigger traumas and they're going to therapists and the therapists are just like oh like we don't we can't really help you we don't know what to do with that you'll just have to take this medication and learn to live with it or you know there's so many people that are being turned away from people saying like oh that's too big like you'll just you'll never heal from it and I feel like it that really frustrated me and so I've spent a lot of time putting it out there

and working with those people who have got that more complex trauma those big ongoing repetitive of sexual traumas, like, I've worked with women with some of the most horrific backgrounds and they actually do and can heal. That's like my mission was just to heal it in myself so I can prove it first and then start healing it for other people. And yeah, it worked. Definitely. It's so inspiring. I really hope you're, you know, proud of how far you've come. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, I am. I am. I often will have moments where I'm like, I will say something that felt like a small trauma to my now fiancé, and it will be like, whoa, what?

Like, I'm like, oh, yeah, that actually kind of is like a big deal. He's like, yeah, that would be like huge for somebody, but it's just so small in the scale of everything that sometimes I look back and I'm like, how am I alive, but so grateful that I am. But that's how it is. Sometimes you've got to be taken down to the trenches for you to really appreciate how. how beautiful life is. 100%.

I kind of wouldn't take away any of my traumas just because now I am like the most grateful, life-loving human being. Absolutely. And I think anyone that I've met that has been through a lot of pain, they come out the other side like so much. And they're somehow like the most happiest people in the world, don't you reckon? Yes. Oh, absolutely.

Because I think you know the lowest. And so when it feels good, you just like, you really appreciate it. Whereas if everything's sort of always been good, you don't really have. the spectrum, like, you're in of the scale. And, yeah, like, I can feel everything and love and, again, like, overflowing with gratitude for the smallest things, because it's just like, you also have a perspective of, like, all that other shit doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it sounds so, yeah. It sounds so, like, I don't know, dark, but, like, sometimes something will happen. And I'll be like, yeah, that, like. In the grand scheme of things. That's not the

worst thing that's ever happened to me. That's definitely not the worst thing. ever happened. We're going to be fun because we survived this. So just keep going. And it kind of gives you a different perspective, I think. Yeah. I think like having that mentality is everything. And we're so grateful to be like that. Absolutely. Sorry if I'm just like, I don't know if you knew that, but I was like, no, no, no. This was so, like, incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And every other piece of wisdom you've shared on this episode, we are so grateful. And I like we can't wait to share this with our listeners because I think it's going to like touch everyone yeah and I think if you do have listeners with sexual trauma I guess this could be like

quite a triggering episode but I think that like if I didn't already say it for anyone that does get triggered by hearing this and they have their own sexual trauma to whatever degree like the whole the whole point of my message is that you can actually heal it like there it's it's not just like you can learn to live with it. Like you can actually heal it to the point where it just doesn't even, it's just nothing. Like it doesn't cross your mind. It doesn't affect you. There's no shame. Like, you know, and a lot of women struggle then with shame in sexuality, in their relationships, in sex. And so that can, like, that doesn't have to be there. You don't have to live with that. Well, thank you so much for your time. This was so special. Yeah, so

good. Thank you so much. I'm M. M. M. M. M. Uh,

uh, Uh,