The Charlie Kirk Show - A Confirmation Battle for Charlie’s Legacy

Episode Date: February 17, 2026

Charlie wanted Jeremy Carl to join the Trump Administration, but Democrats are going all-our to block it. Carl joins the show to respond to Democrat smears, and the team recruits Utah listeners to contact wavering GOP Sen. John Curtis. Sean Davis breaks down the Democrats’ rebranding strategy centered on faking moderation just long enough to achieve their most radical aims.   Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA college chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

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The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers. All right, hour two, the Charlie Kirk show is underway. Welcome back. So excited to have Jeremy Carl back on the show. Welcome to the show, Jeremy Carl. You have been nominated for Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations.

I got it. It's a bit of a mouthful of a title, but what an honor to be nominated. Welcome back to the show. It's so good to see you. How you doing? I'm doing great. I had a fun time in D.C. last week. despite all the fireworks. I truly did. And, you know, I just was, as I said, as you said, it was an honor to be nominated and looking forward to hopefully being able to join.

Yeah. Well, so, and Blake, I mean, feel free to chime in here. But you, you had one of the more eventful nomination hearings that we've seen in recent memory. And boy, did they come after you with just, I mean, it was like hyperbole, which you knew was going to have. I talked to you before that hearing and you said, like I'm going to have to sit there and just get, you know, raked over it for a couple hours. And that's exactly what they did. They called you every name in the book. I mean, this was just, this was just, it felt like, you know what, it felt like a throwback to like 2020 or like 2019 or something like that, 2021.

And I just was like, have, like, are we really still like, are you still going to, are we going to, yeah, are we going to let them do this sort of bad faith framing of everything? And also, as we talked about last week, that bit where they just pretend to not know what people are talking about. So they went after you, of course, for your book, which is a great book and people should read it. And the unprotected class. They're going to rake you over the coal because you say America has anti-white discrimination in it. Well, it does. They brag about it and demand more of it all the time.

But, yeah, you know, what do you have to say, Jeremy about? Do you still stand by this idea, Jeremy? Yeah, thanks. And that was actually the part I was most proud of about the hearing is there's, you know, it's a high pressure environment when you go in there. And even if you're somebody like me who's certainly spoken in public for on many occasions when you have a bunch of very hostile senators controlling the microphone and saying, you know, have you no decency, you know, how dare you have that view? It's very easy to kind of recant or go back. And I didn't do that at all. I stood. by my beliefs, which I certainly do believe very strongly. And so, you know, I cut my integrity. That was really the most important thing to me going into the hearing and just the sort of avalanche of positive correspondence and comments that I got afterward really convinced me that obviously, not just morally, but practically that was the right thing to do.

All right. Well, we definitely wanted to have you on because Charlie fought for your nomination. He was one of the people. You were one of the people he really wanted to. get into the government. He was very excited about it. It really fought for you. But you're facing, obviously, a ton of opposition from Democrats.

But what's been frustrating to us to hear is there's been some skepticism from one of the Republicans on the committee, Senator Curtis from Utah. And his expressed reason was very odd to us. He believes you were not supportive enough of America's policy towards Israel. And he basically said you would be bad for that role because you're going to the United Nations. Now, that's shocking to us because we know Charlie was a huge supporter of Israel and us, you know, protecting them in the Middle East. So the floor is yours to respond to Senator Curtis's concerns. Yeah.

And I want to be first sympathetic to Senator Curtis. I mean, I think if you were primarily viewing this from the media opo dumps that were happening in the weeks up to the hearing and then certainly the comments the Democrats were making, you know, maybe you would be. skeptical, but I certainly would point, as you note, to Charlie's support of me, and Charlie was really, of course, a great supporter of the U.S. Israel relationship. And I also, of course, worked as the right-hand man for a decade for the late Secretary of State George Schultz, who was Ronald Reagan's Secretary of State and was also second to none as a champion of the U.S. Israel relationship.

So I'd certainly point to things like that, and the fact that those two gentlemen chose to be in my corner over a number of years, Secretary Schultz and Charlie, of course, but sadly no longer with us. But that sort of speaks to my views. And then obviously, just personally, within the UN system itself, I mean, there's no question. It's a hotbed of anti-Semitism. The focus on Israel they have there is absolutely absurd and ridiculous. It wastes time from actual productive things that could be accomplished. And there's no question that we are their biggest ally in that system where they often don't have other allies. And we, just like any other close ally we have, we have to be very supportive of them in that context. And I would certainly just say that not just because

of Senator Curtis, but I would have said it if I could have gotten more than two words, edgewise, in the hearing itself. Well, by the way, you, I mean, much has been made. You grew up Jewish, apparently. But it's also, it doesn't mean that you. It doesn't mean that you. you don't have critiques of the status quo relationship or the way that money flows or any of that stuff. All of that stuff is on the table. But to say, you know, you are broadly supportive of that ally and of that relationship, their right to exist, their right to defend themselves. So I don't know what the, even what the to do was about, to be perfectly honest. It's like, yeah, you can have critiques without basically saying, hey, we need to blow up this whole relationship or something.

Well, that's right. And I mean, there's, I mean, I had a huge amount. of support very publicly on the eve of the hearing and afterwards from prominent members of the pro-Israel community. All of our UN ambassadors were supportive. The global envoy we have for addressing anti-Semitism issues was supportive. So that's there. I have at times said some things that were critical of some sub-aspect of it, but none of that really impinges on what we're doing in the UN. There's no question that for the actual job, I would be put in if I'm confirmed by the Senate that I would be four square for every element

of the U.S. Israel Alliance. This is not a tough question. It's not a close call. It's really obvious that, frankly, the behavior toward Israel in the U.N. system is egregious, and we should be fully supportive of them in that context. Yeah. It's been so galling to me to see this happen because we have to have all these Democrats onstage posturing about this when they're the party that's allied.

with Mamdani. They're the party that has people routinely demanding boycotts who are routinely saying like there's one big villain in the Middle East. Genocide. It's Israel. The genocide word of course. And they're endlessly using this as part of their wider front as you're well aware that they attack

Israel basically because they see it as Western because they see it as European because they see it as they code it as white as we say. And as we see this administration is standing up for those things. That's why Secretary of State Marco Rubio. We were just touting his speech in Munich where he says, we are going to confidently stand

for Western civilization. And we have to be doing that at the UN. And you're one of Charlie and President Trump's pick men to do that at the UN. Yeah. And so, so Jeremy, your view on it right now is you have a sympathetic view towards Senator Curtis. We got 30 seconds in this last segment. Are we hopeful? Are you meeting with him? Is there any news there? I'm hopeful. I mean, obviously the hearing just happened. I've got, I don't want to sort of name names because the process is going on, but I've got some senators who are very strongly in my corner and who I think would love to make a meeting happen so that I could sort of clarify a bit more of my background and interests and in these sorts of issues to Senator Curtis. I really do feel like if he

gives me a little bit of time to speak with him, I think he'd be very reassured in this area. So I hope to get the chance to do just that. Folks, let me tell you something straight up. I'm extremely picky about what I put in my body and what companies we support here. Blackout coffee checks every single box. This is a family-run American company roasting fresh coffee in the USA,

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Just add water, stir, and you're ready to roll. Go to blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie and use code Charlie for 20% off your first order. That's blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie. Blackout coffee.com slash Charlie. And for an even better deal, sign up for Blackoutcoffey. out coffee subscription save money get free shipping and heard free coffee through their rewards program just for drinking what you already love your coffee shows up fresh on schedule and you never run out that's blackout coffee dot com slash charlie check it out promo code charlie so jeremy carl uh is with us

he obviously was uh it was a version of the salem witch trials at the senate uh first democratic counterparts there. So you didn't get to talk about the substance of the actual job and what makes you competent, and which is, I think, the whole point. They wanted to distract from the fact that you are one of the most articulate, competent, I would say defenders of American values, of President Trump's platform, his foreign policy. They didn't want you to talk about any of that. So, you know, the floor is now yours, Jeremy. Why do you want this job and what to? What does you want? you hope to accomplish? Yeah, thanks so much. And I was actually at the beginning of this process, which was further back that any of you would probably believe, even if I told you, I was given a choice

of a few different portfolios that I might have had. And really, after thinking about it a little bit, chose this one as a place where I could really make an impact. Because look, the United Nations and certainly many other international organizations have been a longtime source of frustration to those of us who are America first, to those of us who believe in American sovereignty. I mean, there's no question that, as President Trump has said, they have great potential, but they have not lived up to that potential. But I think there's a lot of things that we could be doing, need to be doing in these bodies. There's sort of a horseshoe effect, I think, a little bit here, where the people who are sort of most opposed to the UN in the United States and the people who are actually inside the UN

kind of want the same thing, which is to have a bunch of shop talk and not really a lot of useful concrete action on the things that the UN should be doing, which really primarily should focus around keeping the peace and certainly not being a global government. What I want to do is have the UN do a limited set of things and actually do them effectively and advance U.S. interests in them. So that means we want to be countering China and Chinese influence everywhere we can. We want to be in the standards bodies and making sure we elect Americans in those standards bodies, there's 56 different, I believe, standards bodies within the UN system, ranging for the International Atomic Energy Agency to the International Telecommunications Union.

People don't necessarily think about them in the U.S. that much, but they actually end up often having enormous influence on what we do. So you start with things like that. You start with the U.S.-Israel relationship, which I talked about there, and we need to be very good protectors of Israel and other allies. And there's really just, you know, it's a huge organization there are so many different moving parts, but I think aggressively moving on issues of U.S. sovereignty, trying to stop the migration abuse that we've seen that has led to open borders throughout the world, which is often enabled by the U.N. system. Those would be kind of the priorities that I have if I'm confirmed for the job,

which, of course, I didn't get to talk about during the hearing. You know, there was that powerful moment in Secretary Rubio's speech where he says the U.N. has the ability to do a lot of good. It could be a tool for good. And then he goes through the list of instances where it actually was useless. But it took American might. It took B2 bombers in Iran. It took special forces in Venezuela. You know, it took those European partners coming together along with the U.S. to even get peace negotiations, a discussion to even begin between Ukraine and Russia. What did you make of Secretary Rubio's speech? And, What are you pulling out? What are the through lines that you're pulling out from that moment?

Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, I'm glad you mentioned it was absolutely terrific speech. I'm not to say not because he may be my boss at some point in the near future. But I thought it was outstanding. I thought it did a great job of having a really hopeful vision and also really stressing the importance of American sovereignty and American power at the same time. I thought the critique of the UN was right on. And it really gets to what I was just saying earlier, which is, well, okay, is the U.S. I'm going to just sit there and be a place that talk shop and doesn't actually get anything done. If I were in the U.N., that wouldn't really strike me as something that would be enhancing my power and credibility. And so what I want to do is to have, hopefully be able to effectuate under U.S. leadership, some internal reforms so that we can act in places like Venezuela.

And we're not just sort of hamstrung by these infinite. kind of back and forth processes that are all just about virtue signaling. Yeah, it's really great to emphasize this because it's already bad enough. People might be asking, why are we having this hearing about you? It's because you were nominated way back last spring. And then the Senate's taken a while on a lot of nominees. And thankfully, they resubmitted you again. The White House has really stood by you.

And that's one reason it's so important to get you in. They've admirably stood by their people, even where they've faced some bad faith opposition. and I want to make sure we get to this. So especially if you are in Utah, we want you to call Senator Curtis's offices. Respectfully. Be nice. Jeremy didn't know we were doing this.

Don't flip out. Don't badmouth them. Don't say anything nasty. Just say especially, call him regardless, but especially if you're in Utah, give him a call. His DC office is 202-24-5-25-1. Let's repeat that for the podcast people.

202 224-5-2-5-1. Say you're calling, you're a Utah voter if you're from there, and you say, I'm calling about Jeremy Carl's nomination to be Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations,

mentioned that he was one of Charlie's favorites. He really wanted him in that post, and you want the sender to honor Charlie. I want to underscore, be respectful. Respectful. And I also want to underscore that Jeremy didn't know

we were doing this. So I just, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. I did not plan this. I promise. Please, please, please know this could backfire, Jeremy, if you, if handled poorly. So just be very respectful to the senator. Yeah. And, you know, I'm still hopeful because Jeremy, I know you're a man of great charm and, uh, and, uh, and, and I know that I'm hoping I can. And, you know, I'm glad also you mentioned the degree to which the White House has, uh, stood by me, which I really appreciate. I mean, all of this stuff that did come out came out since my initial nomination and some of it was kind of known, or at least it was out there. So it wasn't a surprise. Others of it, you know, sort of surfaced for the first time. And the White House took all of that into account and just

said, you know, hey, this is still our guy. It doesn't change our view of him. We know that he's a really strong guy and will be good in this. And I'm just, you know, incredibly appreciative of the support of President Trump and Secretary Rubio to really stand strong at a time when a lot of others would have folded. Yeah. Well, and listen, the viewpoints that the Democrats were hitting you with, you know, whether that exchange you had with Cory Booker was hilarious to me. He's like, really? You believe that, you know, you held your ground.

But it was just amazing to me that this was like shocking to them. These are down the middle, completely mainstream conservative beliefs that you hold. And the more that they're going to try and gaslight the public and thinking that mainstream conservative beliefs, by the way, proven. We've got a billion clips that prove all of these positions, you know, whatever. the fact that they're still trying to act surprised about them at this point Jeremy is really that's what I said I felt like I was in 2021 2019 something like that 2014 even what's your final message well my final message I think is that I would love to have the opportunity to serve

the president and the country in this role I really appreciate the support of you guys I mean Charlie was it was such a huge huge loss just personally professionally but I love the fact that you guys are carrying on his legacy and really appreciative of your support now and over the years. Absolutely. Jeremy Carl, we have your back. We expect to see you at the State Department soon. The online world moves fast and it's moving even faster these days. That's why TikTok approaches teen safety with families in mind from the start because discovery and creativity are both wonderful things, but it's important to make sure that safety comes first as well. On TikTok, teenagers have over 50 built-in protections right from when they join.

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This is Never Surrender, which is I think our all-time bestselling shirt, if I'm not mistaken. Jesus saves, live free. Another one of our all-time bestsellers. Here I am, which would Charlie specifically request to get that made. And then the Charlie Kirk Show,

T as well. So go to Charlie Kirkstore.com to check out all of those. The team always is like, you got to bring it up you got to bring it and then they so now they've got the studio that makes me do it now but it's great charlie kirk store.com to check all those out never surrender is literally the ogy bestseller so please check that out sean davis co-founder CEO of the federalist good man uh joins us now sean welcome back my friend good to see you good to be back thanks for having me so we have to start here we just found out that robert duval died um who is an iconic

American actor, kind of old Hollywood, and just, I think he was a winger. Yeah, he was, yeah. He was supporting McCain back in 2008. Well, that's, well, come on. But him, okay. It's great, is it a sliding scale? Well, I mean, he got old. I think he was probably just less prominent because he was.

Well, he died at 95. I mean, he lived a good long life. And some of the most iconic clips, you have one pulled up, right? Yes, yes. We have that ready to go. Let's make sure we have that number. I thought you had it. All right.

I say you have a clip. Ready. So let's do $298. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Sean, I don't know if you saw the news, but if you have any thoughts on Robert Duval, feel free. Yeah, so my favorite role of his, it wasn't on the big screen. It was in the TV mini series of Lonesome Dove, which I think is the greatest American novel ever written. And he played, Gus McCray. I think it's one of the greatest roles he ever played. It's one of the greatest characters ever written. And he was just spectacular. He's a great role in my personal favorite film. At least, I used to always say this. I'd have to re-watch it.

It's been a while. But thank you for smoking. Oh, interesting. The movie about the tobacco lobbyist. He's the tobacco baron. Oh, interesting. Tells you how to make a perfect mint and julep, taught to him by Fidel Castro.

All the, all the, obviously, the Godfather series, Open Range, little appreciated movie of his, Days of Thunder, which is where Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman met. ended up getting married. But Rubbins Racing son, because he's, Tom Cruz is complaining that they keep bumping his car and he's like, it's not bumping. He didn't hit you. They're rubbing

you. Rubbins racing. Anyways, so many good movies, John Q, the Great Santini, Jack Racher, the apostle. This guy is legitimately one of just the most, I mean, he's got movies in the 70s with Clint

Eastwood, the network. I mean, he played Bobby Lee in gods and generals. Yeah. Okay. I didn't see that. Secondhand. I forgot about Days of Thunder, which is the second greatest racing movie ever made after Talladega Nights, the ballot of Ricky Bobby. Yeah, well, of course. Everybody knows this. And you're a Southern gentleman at this point, Sean, so you can appreciate it. I'm actually supposed to go to my first NASCAR race in March, I think. Maybe I've got that mistaken. Anyway, I've never been, but a lot of people love it. A lot of people are saying. All right, that's not why we had you on, but the news just broke. And, you know,

I love lifting up actually a talented actor that didn't disgrace himself, that died of natural causes. There wasn't some crazy story involved. So, you know, God bless him. Who loved this country? He did. He's real American. What I wanted to bring in, sorry, I'm still getting over something. I need all family pharmacy to help me out here.

So what I wanted to get in here, Sean, is there was a couple of clips that I couldn't help noticing and drawing a pattern. first one up let's just start with Obama because he went on this podcast made a little bit of news 242 the same would be true let's say here in los angeles around the homeless issue the average person you know doesn't want to have to navigate around a tent city in the middle of downtown and that we're not going to be able to build a working majority and support for the resources that we need to help folks like that. We're not going to be able to generate support for it if we simply say, you know what, it's not their fault.

And so they should be able to do whatever they want because that's a losing political strategy. Okay, so my ears perked up when I heard that. But then I heard another clip, Sean, from Hildebeast, 241. I think we need to call it for what it is. There is a legitimate reason to have a, debate about things like migration. It went too far. It's been disruptive and destabilizing,

and it needs to be fixed in a humane way with secure borders that don't torture and kill people. And she even, Sean, you notice she was doing the thumb thing, the Clinton thumb point. So I really, yeah, my ears perked up. And then it all came together. It all crystallized with Andy Bashir. The touted, renowned modern. from Kentucky. Playcut 240. How do you respond to a Democratic voter who might say, I like you, I like your track record in a red state or red Commonwealth, but you're too soft-spoken? Yes, that message is working. Look at Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill, who ran great

campaigns in races that should have been structurally difficult, and they both won by double digits. The DGA and our candidates are winning everywhere. Many Americans feel like the pendulum swung too far during the Biden administration. and it swung way too far during the Trump administration. And what they want is in America where they can wake up every morning and not be worried about its future. Ah, so, okay, so Virginia is the model. Sean, you know all about Virginia and you know all about Spamberger.

What are you gleaning from that series of clips we just played? Yeah, it's fascinating to watch, especially all of them together. To me, it's obvious what they're doing. And it's that they understand these these, Democrats, they understand they cannot get elected saying the things that they believe. So now there's a long campaign to get them to say things that they don't believe, but that sound good in the hopes that they can get elected and then not do any of those things. So you have Obama talking about dealing with the homeless problem.

Democrats don't care about dealing with the homeless problem. But you have to say that because people are sick of it. They don't like being accosted by crazy drug addicts on the street. So, yeah, we'll pretend to care about that. With Hillary, you have to pretend to pretend to. care about the borders because that sounds sane. Now, they don't care about the borders at all. And then you had Bashir, who's really, I don't even want to say he's a left-wing nut job. He's kind of a nothing. He's the son of a popular former Kentucky politician, and that's the only

reason he's in office. But he let the mask slip there, especially with Spanberger, who's a total left-wing nut job, saying, look, we just have to pretend to believe these things and say things that sound nice. And then when we get in office, we don't have to do any of it. It's a total con job. Yeah, well, and remind folks about Virginia. I mean, Virginia, like, when I say you're going full Virginia in 28, like, that's full, basically radical leftist, communist, DSA, certainly. I mean, they are taking Virginia, a D6 state. I mean, Kamala held it by six points. They're taking it into a direction like it's a D40 state. This is absolutely radical stuff, and this is the playbook. So what are they doing in Virginia? Yeah. So, I mean, they're all but banning ice. They're undoing everything Youngkin did to reform schools and on the trans issue. But I will have to say in a certain just real politics sense, I admire the Democrats for what they're doing because they don't get stuck in this trap that Republicans get in. When they get in office, if they only win by a single vote, they do 100% of their agenda. And it's why they're able to make such massive sweeping cultural and political gains. in the country. You look at Obamacare, that thing was a political disaster. They didn't care. They wanted to remake the country and they had to do it by remaking health care. And so I think Republicans actually can learn a little something from this is that if you get in and you use power for your ends to

reward your friends in constituency, you will be rewarded long term. And so Democrats, they lie and they cheat and they steal, but it works for them. Yeah, I mean, this was just a few days after getting sworn in. 4.3% sales tax on Uber, Eats, Amazon, etc. New sales tax on admissions to a wide variety of businesses. Create two new higher tax brackets of 8% and 10% on people making over $600,000, a new 10% bracket for anyone making over a million, 3.8% investment tax on top of state income taxes, raise the hotel tax, new personal property tax on landscaping equipment,

banned gas-powered leaf blowers, of course, because California's just paved the way on so much of this, guarantee illegal aliens-free education, make it illegal to approach somebody at an abortion clinic, extend the time absentee ballots can be received after election day to three days, allow people to cast their votes electronically through the internet. I mean, on and on and on, it goes, not to mention their redistricting fight, where they're going to have a single Republican district. Now, it looks like that one has at least been stayed for a little while. They'll probably get it, what, in 2028, but it's not going to make it in time for the midterms.

I mean, they just went full radical to your point, but here's what's crazy. is now you see the leaders of the party signaling to the base saying, hey, go a little bit lighter, a little lighter touch, fly under the radar, don't be so radical. And guess what? If you do that, you get to go full Virginia in 26 and 28. I mean, to me, it seems about the most clear thing I've seen in a long time. And to see, you know, Obama and Hillary still out front leading the charge.

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a number of names. So over the weekend was a six-page letter from the DOJ signed by Pambani and Todd Blanche. And it released a series of names. And this is apparently all keeping

with these transparency act. And it gave them a 30-day statutory guideline to get this stuff out. And they have, and it feels like all hell's breaking loose. If you just look on X, it's like allegations are flying everywhere. People, like Janish Joplin's in there. Elvis, like if you've been mentioned at all in like a link of a of an article in an email from

Jeffrey Epstein or somebody else, you are mentioned in this. What do we make of this? And like, how should we think about it? Yeah, it's been really interesting looking at all the stuff that's coming out. And yeah, there's a bazillion names in there. But there are some very key trends that we see. The main one is that through kind of his entire career of all this influence stuff, Jeffrey Epstein was a tried and true Democrat. The people who were talking to him the most often and going to his island were Democrats. You had people like Reed Hoffman. This is a guy who's been funding hoax after hoax on behalf of the Democrats.

You had Reid Hoffman, who was BFFs with Jeffrey Epstein. You had Kathy Rumler, who was Obama's Ethics Tsar and his White House counsel, who is Epstein's fixer, who is involved in working with him to help mitigate scandals facing the Obama administration, even a Secret Service scandal. And you look at all this and you're like, man, this is a pretty common theme here. Like Democrats were completely in bed with this guy. And it's been really interesting to watch the media cover this and do everything they can to not mention Reed Hoffman, who is in up to his neck in Epstein nonsense and now wants to pretend, oh, he was just a casual pen pal with the guy. Yeah. So this is from Kennecoa the Great. He said,

Reed Hoffman stayed at Jeffrey Epstein's ranch, private island, in Manhattan apartment. He bought ice cream for the girls. That one's real fun. A metal sculpture for the island. Hoffman donated over $100 million to Democrat causes. He funded the fake Russian bots on Twitter

and financed the EG& Carroll lawsuit. People forget that one. He funded Clear Choice Pack, which used lawfare to remove Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Cornell West from the ballot in Battleground States. So he's literally used his, so they emailed each other over 1,700 times. I don't think I've emailed anybody 1700 times, like legitimately. They emailed each other 1700. They called each other very close friends, discussed the visits to Epstein's properties, private jet shopping, gift

exchanges, and talked about how much they missed each other. That is, that is five years of emails if they emailed once every day. Wow. I mean, so it's, a, this is apparently the craziest email. Again, shout out to Cana Coa the Great on X. In January 2015, as allegations that Epstein trafficked Virginia Roberts to Prince Andrew went global, Hoffman offered to help Epstein with his negative press coverage. Hmm. Very, very fascinating. This is from CNN here. It says this new DOJ document. It also mentioned prominent individuals who had previously been linked to Epstein, including President Donald Trump, former President Bill Clinton, former Trump, former Trump,

Steve Bannon, former White House counsel, Kathy Rumler, and billionaire business magnate Les Wexner. I, there's 3.5 million documents. People are still pouring through them, Sean. So we're still getting new details. People keep coming up with new kernels and new, new allegations. And it just seems like it's a freaking mess out there. And it feels like everything that our friend Mike Davis warned about earlier in the year, last year, has basically become true that there is so much lack of context. There's so much, there's a lot of stuff, there's a lot of information, and there's not a whole lot of guidance on what's true, what's out like mere hearsay, what's, you know, out of context, just mentioning of names. And it does feel like a lot of the people, you didn't want to

listen to them at the time, have been proven right, that people are just getting smeared and, like, out of nowhere, innocent people are getting hurt. And some of the victims are getting hurt, too. Yeah. And you had Roe Kana, another Reid Hoffman Democrat ally, go to the floor, you know, along with Thomas Massey. And they outed, you know, six people who were on there as people on, who were doing stuff with Epstein. They were random people in a, in a lineup that was tangentially related to Epstein. These were random people. They didn't do anything wrong. They apparently just had their photos taken at the wrong time. The thing that I find so exasperating is, yes, we have a bazillion documents now and we're able to learn a lot. The one thing that I want to know is which intel agencies was he working for? Which ones?

I don't believe anyone when they tell me, oh, he wasn't doing anything with the CIA. He wasn't doing anything with Mossad. He wasn't doing anything with the Saudis. Nope, he was just a weird guy doing stuff. No one believes that. And I guess my frustration is after all this time, after all these years, I just assume all the documents they had, they ever even had them that tell us those things that answer those questions are gone. And I just find the whole thing maddening and frustrating because I feel like that's the one thing people want to know, tell us who he was working for. And that's the one thing apparently we're never going to get to

know for certain. Well, and it's like, why does he foia himself? Why does he foyer the CIA twice? I know Blakes is a nascent. I'm the big skeptic on all of this, Sean. I think I'm completely with you. I don't believe it. I think he was, it was soft power. Yeah, he's not like, here's my, treasure W-2 for the CIA. It wasn't like that, guys. This was all soft power and behind the scenes. If that's what it was, then the question is, like, how far does it go? Because if it's a much more casual arrangement where he just deals in information sometimes,

that's, I guess then you ask, what's the big scandal there? Because the claim is, of course, that he was doing Intel ops that might blackmail people and trap people get really involved in this. So I think he was running money. I think he was doing financial transactions. Yeah, that's what I think. And I think they let him do the kinky sex. crap because he was valuable for them with the financial laundering and all that.

But I don't think we'll ever know. Got to leave. Got to leave it there. We'll see you guys tomorrow. Thank you, Sean Davis. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.