The Charlie Kirk Show - Bonus Episode: Charlie's Best Immigration Debates

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

Other than abortion, Charlie fielded more tough questions on immigration and the border than just about any topic. In this episode, we've compiled some of Charlie's best immigration back-and-forths, as he stands fearlessly for an America with secure borders that finally puts its native citizens first.   Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!  Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA College Chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

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Here we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers. I have a couple points that I want to talk about in illegal immigration. Is it okay if I write, if I say all of them with no interruption?

Okay, cool. So, first, illegal immigrants power our economy. They're 50% of U.S. farm workers harvesting the food on our tables and fill 70% of construction jobs in states like Texas. They pay 13 billion annually in taxes, including $2 billion to Social Security that they can't claim.

Reporting them would slash agriculture output by $60 billion and raise food prices by 6%. Why gut our farms and wallets when these workers fuel our prosperity? That's my first point. Second point. They strengthen our communities with lower crime rates. So in Texas, undocumented immigrants have a 26 lower percent homicide conviction rates, which is 2.2 per 100,000 versus three for native-born citizens. nationally immigrants are incarcerated at half the rate of native born, where it's 0.85% versus 1.71%.

That's according to Bureau of Justice Statistics from 2019. So if safety is your goal, why deport people who make our streets safer? This is my third point. Mass deportation tears apart American families. Over 4.4 million U.S. citizens, children have an undocumented parent, and in Texas, one in seven kids lives in a mixed status household. Okay, this is my fourth point. Deportation is a fiscal nightmare,

removing 11 million people would cost 315 to 400 billion, more than the entire Homeland Security budget, and shrink our GDP by $1.7 trillion over 10 years. And this is my last point. Our immigration system is broken, pushing people to cross illegally. Visa waits Mexicans, can exceed 20 years and the asylum blockage is 1.3 million cases.

With hearings four to six years out. Okay. You done? That's pretty much it. Yeah, yeah. All right. So without looking at the phone, look at me. What should the penalty be for breaking into America?

I think there should be a system where it's more merit-based. So if this person is... No, penalty. So what should happen to you? It's a felony. It's a misdemeanor. No, it is. That's not true.

It's 8 U.S.C. 1312. You can look it up right now. It's a felony if it's done twice. No, no. It's not correct. That is not correct. That is not correct. I googled it, dude.

To illegally go across the Southern Motor with the well intent to come in to harbor yourself into the interior of the United States, the violation of 8 U.S.C. 1312, which is a felony in the federal criminal code. Now, it can be enforced as a misdemeanor or it can be upwards to five years in prison. Now, I want to know, since it's a felony, law in the books, 8 U.S.C. 1312. What should the penalty be? Well, in my opinion, these kinds of, like, laws are usually, they're, what do you call it? they're um sorry usually the

like the wait sorry can I can I check my phone real quick I apologize can you repeat the question sorry what should the penalty be for someone that breaks or comes into America illegally

what should the penalty be I think there should be a merit system where the people okay the penalty all right let's that's not the answer it's a very simple moral and legal question what should the penalty be if you come into America illegally. Okay, so since it's a misdemeanor, not a felony,

I just told you it's not eight. You can look up on your chat GPT. What is eight USC? Look up. What is eight USC 1312? No, I know. I've already looked it up. Yes, which is a...

When it's your second time crossing the border illegally, then it becomes a felony. It can be, and it is enforced as a felony, and it usually is done as a misdemeanor citation because no one has the stones to do 20 million felony applications. So I just want to ask, what should the penalty be then

for someone that comes into this country illegally? Usually there's three ways that go about this when there's a penalty. There's either like a fine or there's some kind of like public service that this person does, or you send them back. Oh, send them back, I agree. That's what we should do.

Okay, okay, so this is interesting. So one of the statistics that I read said that illegal immigrants don't cause as much as much like, they don't break the law as often as people who are native board. That is statistic. No, no time out. But every single one of them are criminals. They're all criminals. Okay, sure.

By law. By law. No, no. No, by law, of course. Of course the argument. If they commit less crime and they're all criminals, wait a second. By definition, they all have broken the law by being here. And they break the law every day by staying here because you're actually not allowed to stay.

here either. Do you know that? So every day you're here, you're actually continually breaking the law. You can't break in or harbor. That's what the federal law says. So by breaking in, it's not just the only law they broke. Every second you remain here, you're also breaking the law. So that statistic is invalidated by just them breathing

here, they're breaking the law. No, of course not. Of course it makes sense for them when they're here, they're breaking a law because they're illegal immigrants, obviously. But once they're, okay, yeah, so once they're here, what kind of harm are they actually doing? When you look at the numbers, A lot. No, no, that's not true. Black wages have gone down. In Texas, okay, in Texas, do Is have gone up dramatically. Try not to interrupt, bro.

Well, hold on. I'm interjecting, and I let you go uninterrupted with your whole syllogically, right? So, so let me just, let me ask you a question, though. Okay. So if it is correct that illegal aliens commit less crimes, which, of course, it's not correct. That is correct. Look it up. In Texas, they made a study in 2019. 26% are lower. Is any crime, it's just not correct. But I'm not going to debate that. It's, it's, I'm I just proved it at its face because they commit a crime by being here every day. That is a crime. Okay, once they are here, what kind of crimes are they committing, which is...

Okay, well... They're 26%... Okay. Do you know the name Lake and Riley? No, educate me. Oh, you don't? No, no. Do you know...

Wow. Do you know the name Rachel Morin? No, I don't. Wow. Educate me. What kind of... So, Lake and Riley was a girl at the University of Georgia. Okay.

There was a peeping Tommy, illegal alien that was deported five times four. prior and Biden kept on letting him back in. He hunted her down, sodomized her, and murdered her on a hiking trail University of Georgia. Okay. So one person doesn't represent all legal immigrants. Every person who is killed by an illegal alien is one that should not happen.

Every single one. Of course. And also the ones that are native born. And so that's the point is that it's not a matter of the rates. The rate, even if I accept your premise, which is incorrect, the rate is irrelevant. The number is what's relevant. There should be zero

illegal aliens. There should be zero Americans being killed by illegals. Not to mention there are six other problems of the illegal aliens. They steal social security numbers. They depress wages. They are heavily involved. By the way, not to mention a lot of people that cross on the southern border are also smuggling girls, weapons and drugs

alongside the southern border. When they come, it's the largest slavery operation in American history that many illegal aliens help make possible on the southern border. And I guess the final question I'll have is, should a government serve its citizens first and foremost?

Yeah, of course. Of course. Well, okay, there's been many people who are like very political leaders who have said that this place is built off of immigrants. Oh, is it, well, hold on, let's think about that. Sure. First of all, it's legal, not illegal. But was America founded by immigrants or settlers? Settlers. That's not an immigrant.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, that's not my point. My point is that people... Just brought up the nation built by immigrants. Yeah. We're actually not. Because the political leaders have said that this place is built from...

Yeah, and they're wrong. They're wrong? Political leaders are wrong. George W. Bush is wrong. All these political leaders who have built America's wrong. By the way, the first person to say that was... How is that wrong?

When illegal immigrants make... They grow the economy. Statistically... Again, allow me to build it out for you. Immigrants have helped at times in American history, but we are first inform us a nation founded by settlers. Immigrants come to a country already built. Settlers come to a barren place and build something new.

This land was barren when people came. In the 1840s gold rush, this was not an easy place to live. California was not exactly industrialized. There was not immigrants coming west to California. Those were settlers, building a new place around Western values.

Finally, I would just ask the question, do you see a moral distinction between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant? Well, the argument is that they're cutting in line. The argument is that they're cutting in line in the 20-year process that it would take for someone to cross-reli- It's not 20. At most it's 20. At most it's 20.

Right now there's around like 1.2 million people who are currently waiting that would take Six to seven years for a hearing. And by way, no one has a right to come to this country. Of course. Just to be clear. Hi, folks. Andrew Colvett here.

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And remember, Y Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to whyrefi.com and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. Let me stay on track of what I was going to say. So people who come here usually almost all the time when they come here, they benefit society. They benefit society. There's studies that have done this. Not necessarily.

Okay, not necessarily, but overall in general. I fundamentally disagree with that. You can't disagree with a fact. Hold on us. Do you think Elon Omar has enriched the? United States of America? I don't know who that is. Do you think Rashida Talib?

Uh-huh. I mean, I could go through person by person by person. Sorry, I don't know these people. Are these people who have, like, are illegal immigrants that have caused harm? Yeah, again, if you don't know, I don't need to pick on you, it's fine. Okay. But I guess the final question is, do you have any concern that there are too many people coming into this country and we're a nation of strangers, not a nation of neighbors?

If the people who are coming are creating America, making it more growing, like the economy is growing, then what harm is that? doing, especially if the people who are more than... Because we're coming at an economy, though, aren't we? We're a culture. We're a language. Yeah, of course. Okay, so let's talk about that front. When they come here, they don't have any kind of, they're not committing as more crimes than the people who are already here. That is a statistic done. We've already dispelled that.

That is not, you can't dispell a statistic. What are you talking about? Do you think there's anything wrong that a majority of young people in California speak Spanish, not English? Is there, wait, sorry, can you see the beginning? Do you think there's anything wrong or troubling to the fact that a majority of people under the age of 30 here in the state speech Spanish, not English? Is there a problem? with that? Well, yeah, everyone should be

able to have an ability to communicate with the rest of the crowd. So I don't know what the big issue of that is. See, I think it's a huge problem when we have a nation where you can't communicate with your fellow neighbor. Simple solution. Teach them how to speak English. What is your point? Yeah, and our schools don't do that actually. And also, have a better solution.

Don't import a bunch of people that don't speak English. You mean importing people who actually grow the economy? Again, I reject your premise. That's not a premise. That's a study that's been done. Do you know what a problem? I don't actually care as much

about economic growth because we're one nation under GDP. We're a nation under God. When we lose social confusion and you import a bunch of people that don't share our values, that don't necessarily always assimilate, that's a major and serious problem. And we are a people first and foremost with a creed and that creed is falling apart.

Mass migration has not helped that creed. Yes, they might buy more trinkets. They might help depress wages. Mass migration, of course, can help them good things, all great things for America. Well, they help major corporations, but you know what they also do? They keep down the wages of working people. If you are a plumber, yes, of course, if you're a plumber electrician or a welder, and you have to compete against someone from Nicaragua who's willing to do it for five bucks less an hour,

that depresses the wages of the American citizen. Right. Yeah, so there's been studies that done that I'll also counteract that. Illegal immigrants. Well, let's use our reason. No, let's look at our studies. Let's use our reasons. How about our reason?

So we've had mass migration for 20 years. Have wages gone up? I don't know. No, they haven't, actually. So forget your studies. For 10 years, we've had 30 million people coming to America. Wages have gone down dramatically. Maybe there's a reason why.

Okay. Okay. So what I encourage you to do, just because there's a study that confirms, you should use your reason and look actually at self-evident truths. Like, huh, does that make sense? Statistics are self-evident truths. Well, not always. Statistics are self-evident truths.

Very misleading. Yes. Like, for example, I could say, did you know that 600 people a year die because of seatbelts? Well, that's a misleading statistic because over 100,000 lives are saved by seatbelts. That's an incomplete statistic. Wait, okay, so where's the gray area? So where's the gray area where people are talking about where 26% of illegal immigrants who come here commit less crimes than native war. Okay, we have, how many times have you been over this?

That's just not correct. That is true. That is correct. Every single crime. It doesn't matter about the rate. This is a study that was done in Texas, the most diverse. Again, second most ever state. Every crime in illegal commits is one that should never have happened.

It is a period. They should not be here. So I don't care about the rate. The rate is irrelevant. So let me just ask one final question. The right is relevant. Someone broke into the country and cut in line, what should happen to them? Well, they're given, ideally there's a system.

Ideally, there's a system that's merit-based where these people then become part of the citizen. Like, they become a legal citizen. Yeah, I mean, we have clarity but not agreement. I say deport them all back to their country of origin. and put Americans first. That's not an appropriate solution. Well, the American people

voted for it and it is appropriate. It isn't appropriate because most of the people that do come here illegally contribute positively to society. Not again, dude. Statistically, everything backs this. You're not listening to anything

I'm saying and that's fine. They take jobs from Americans, they depress wages, they steal social security numbers, they commit a crime every single day that they're here, they flood our public schools, they flood our social services,

they flood our hospitals, they are a burden on the taxpayer, they should go back and make their own country great again and apply and become a legal immigrant if they want to live here. Thank you very much. Next question. Basically my question is there are circumstances in the U.S. where little kids come in illegally because of their parents,

but they come here and this is their whole life. They have no history in their home country, right? How do we humanely and as conservatives or Christians like do with this in a way that represents our values. You're not going to like my answer, and that's okay. The whole family unit should be returned back to the country. Okay, that's what I was tending to think. And can I just build it out?

Yes. So a moral teaching of scripture is that you do not favor justice for the poor or for the rich, this idea of blind justice. And if we agree it is wrong to do this, and we say, okay, what's the most humane way? It would be one thing if we say, hey, you separate the family, which ironically, people on the left actually want the family separated. They say, oh, keep the kids and bring the parents back home. I think that's wrong.

I think the whole family unit should return. And here's why is that these parents, when they brought some of these kids across the border, they knowingly put their kids in harm's way. That's true. And again, it is not fair to the kids of other nations that are not able to legally immigrate into this country just because others were carried across the southern border. Do you think it would then be reasonable to,

give maybe these families, unfortunately, due to their parents' decisions, maybe more priority about getting an actual visa or? No, no visas. I know. I'm pretty harsh on this, and I'll tell you why. If we compromise on immigration law, then we do not have immigration law. We must be uncompromising in the enforcement of law, period. And again, if we want to accommodate certain things, then we're basically going to say,

hey, this law should not exist and anybody can come in under any circumstances. Again, the parents are the ones to blame here, not the U.S. government. The parents brought their kids, and I'm going to say something a little bit provocative, almost as like mini hostages against the system, where they're like, well, you can't deport me because I brought these kids. Like a safety mechanism. Yeah, as a safety mechanism. And by the way, just so we're clear, some of these kids are brought across in sex trafficking ways.

Some of them are brought in very cruel and unusual ways. And so, again, people don't always love that answer. Yeah. I guess my next question to that would be, I'm trying to think, I just, like, because they have no, maybe they don't even, you know, their first language is English. They may not even speak their native language. And you said that it was, because that's the law right now that we don't allow immigration inside. But in the past presidency, maybe when they came in, that wasn't the case. So, no, that's, well. And I don't agree with that. That. that was the way it was during that time. But then shouldn't we maybe allow those people to stay because that was acceptable in that moment? If you're 25 years or younger, it's been the law for about 25 years, right? So about like 2000, 8 U.S.E 1312. I guess saying just like in the last presidency it was just so like chillax, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, so look, like let's just talk about something that's going to be a huge task. Because what you're talking about is still a hypothetical in some ways. because you're talking about people that might have been here for 10 or 15 years, the more important and one that's going to be a huge lift is getting all 14 million people that came across in the last four years. They do know another nation. They do know another home. We're not even getting the people that are 18, 20, 25.

We're talking about trying to get 14 million people that were bum rushed across the border in the span of four years. Every single one of those people should be returned back to their country of origin and deported from the United States. I agree with that as well. as America turns 250 we want to help good ranchers take a moment to remember the people who built it and those of course are america's ranchers for over 250 years ranchers had worked tirelessly to feed america through droughts wars recessions pandemics changing politics they don't stop and that is the kind of legacy

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you'll get a you'll get to pick a free meat that will be included in every order for life and you'll get $25 off your first order using my exclusive code Charlie that's Charlie for $25 off your first order just to try good ranchers out because they're that confident you'll love it good ranchers dot com American meat delivered hi Charlie great to meet you thank you for letting me speak in your platform First of all, I really disagree with you in a lot of things. Be respectful, guys. It's fine. Part of what makes America a great country. It does. It does.

America's a great country, but I don't like your T-shirt. I'm going to get started by saying, I'm an immigrant. Well, I don't understand why you would want to deport all, like, some of my friends and family who have been working hard in this country and that, like, they're being persecuted right now. So I just, I don't get the, the whole process of it, and it feels like I'm being discriminated against, even though I'm here through legal means.

But just, can you please give me an answer for that? And before that, if, like, let's say, if I would come up here and say, like, I'm an illegal immigrant and I'm here trying to debate you, would you call ICE? I mean, Tom Holman would probably see the video and you'd probably go back to your true country. Okay. I mean, that's how it works, right?

But let me just ask you a question. What is the fair, way a country, in your ideal, you're king. What's your name? Sorry. I'm Claudio, sir. Yeah, Claudio. And this is just a thought exercise, but it's very revealing. You are king, and you find out that there are 30 million uninvited people in your country. What do you do with them? Oh, in this case, I try to find the most humane way of sending them back to our country. But first of all, I want to say. That's what we're doing. Wait, let me just, let me just say something. That's what we're doing. Let me just say something. King Claudio, long live the king.

I'm not a, I'm not a dictator at all, but. I'm, of course, I'm saying. It's a helpful thought exercise. I get it. And all I'm saying is you were talking about, like, in the past couple of people that came up here, like, America first, trying to get, like, the best for our country and, like, increasing the productivity and getting us to be, like, the best country possible, which I agree. Like, I love this country. But a lot of this country is built on, like, illegal immigrant labor. And it's definitely, like, a bad means. But it's been a good result somehow. Like, I'm sure you know people, like, you have friends.

from like home that own businesses that employ these types of people that are very productive and very very honest and just hardworking trying to get a better life and a lot of those people are very close to me so it's just a very heartbreaking situation for me but I understand okay yeah but I mean and you gave the answer if you were in charge I guess this is an important another important question what should the punishment be then if you break into somebody else's country uninvited and stay there without welcome well I really I don't know what the punishment should be. I'm not a lawyer. No, no, that's okay. I'm just asking,

totally. Here's our position. Is that it is against federal law to come into America, right? You're not allowed to come into the country without, you know, without invite. So that's against the law. So if we can do one or two things, and there really isn't, there's very little in the middle. There's some nuance, but we can say we are not going to enforce the law because, you know, we're just going to say that doesn't matter. Or we could say, look, the law is blind. And when you break, break the law must apply to all people.

Now, I think you're a little different, because I don't want you to loop in. So what country did you emigrate from? Are you going to, like, discriminate against me? No, I'm actually. I'm going to do the opposite, actually. Yeah. I'm curious. I'm Mexican. Okay, fine, but you came here legally, correct?

I did, sir. Okay, great. Well, if I didn't, you'd be calling the police when you... No, but it's not a racial thing. Okay. If you were Polish and you overstayed a visa, then you should be... But hold on, you followed the rules. So you're exempt.

Mm-hmm. The people that you... you know didn't follow the rules. True. So I divide America not into Mexican and white and Hispanic and white into rule follower and rule breaker. Yeah. And so when someone breaks our rules, there must be justice done. There must be a punishment.

And the most humane way is you go back to your country of origin. We'll do it humanely. We'll do it correctly. But if you are not invited into a home, into a dorm room, into a living room, the standard applies to entire country. Now, to your point, you might be right. There might be some economic disruption. However, you know what happens if you have economic disruption in the labor pool? Wages are going to go up.

And you guys are going to see your wages go up. Who is going to occupy those jobs? So this is a little bit insulting. I don't think you mean it this way, that illegal immigrants are nothing more than just kind of like... No. These are my people, so how could I be insulting? I'm even defending. I don't think you mean it this way.

But broadly, when we talk about immigration, there's a talking about, like, well, who's going to pick your grapefruits and, like, who's going to serve you Chipotle? You've probably heard this before, right? I have, yeah. Who's going to clean your hotel room? It's us, yeah. But hold on, embedded in that is kind of a really derogatory that's like, they're kind of just like a permanent surf class here to serve us. I think that's like really creepy and weird actually. These are human beings.

They're more than just kind of economic utility. Yeah, no, but like in the history of the U.S., like we first had like the Italian and Polish immigrants and they first served those jobs. And then they became like economically sufficient. But they were welcomed. True. And they were. But it was a different time in history. Of course, but I suppose the broader question is one of justice,

which is that to what should a country do when your sovereignty has been so massively violated for a long period of time? And a country seeks to be a country, it becomes something else, it becomes a colony or it becomes just kind of a random area if a country does not have loyalty to its own people. And if it has loyalty to foreigners or to an oligarchy, it ceases to be a country. So it's not the most popular argument. Well, actually, the American people,

voted for it. And it sounds cruel, but it's very simple. It's like, look, this is not against any of you personally, but you have to have the law be the first and last ushering of what a government does in this situation. And by the way, what I was saying about you, I'm getting back to you, you deserve to be applauded because you guys followed the rules. And it's not fair to people like you who followed the rules to all of a sudden have line cutters. Here's the equivalent. You guys waited in line like Two and a half hours to go get a meal at a restaurant and someone shows up and just cuts in line. What was the first thing you would say?

That's not fair. And you would be right. And the same with immigration, please. Yeah. Wait, let me just add a layer to this. And then I'm probably done. But let's say that the people that's cutting in front of the line, like, that's like some of my boys, like, that I know.

That they're being, like, persecuted, like, back home. Them and their families, like, they're, like, drug-related, like, wars and violence. And the only way out, like the only way they're not going to die or, like, suffer a very bad fate is if they escape and they break the American law. But that's the only way they're going to survive. So like... Hold on. Hold on. Two thoughts on this.

Number one, if that is correct, we have a special asylum status that they could seek legally at a port of entry that they could go through a whole process. But if they're being persecuted, don't they not deserve, but it wouldn't be justified to cut the line? No. Okay. Secondly, well, it might be justified in their mind, but it's not justified in the world. rule administers mind to make exception for it. But let me just, let me make a more important point, though. If we all of a sudden say that if you have a lot of gang violence and issues, I mean, like we have a lot of gang violence and issues. Like, what are we talking about here?

Like we're a more dangerous country than half of the Central American countries. We're far more dangerous than El Salvador. And we could, we can make an example. If that is the criteria, like all of South America should be allowed into America. Basically, I mean, the idea is that at some point you have almost no standard whatsoever and instead here's my perspective we should empower those people to go fix their own country we should empower them to go make el salvador great again which is a great country now okay in nicaragua honduras yes please final so wouldn't like a good way to start is like trying to lower the the demand for drugs in in america because a lot of the drugs that are like being produced and being fought over in south america are going to be supplied to the u.s for american

consumers. Yeah, so how would you recommend lowering demand? I have no idea. Like, what would you do? Or, like, I don't know. I mean, demand and supply are two different issues, right? I mean, the first part of demand is that way too many people get into into, I talked to my earlier point, they get into a thought pattern that substances

are going to bring me flourishing, which I think is wrong. But yes, I think, look, the drug cartels are richer than ever before, and we have more drugs legalized than any time in last 40 years. So something doesn't fit. So obviously drug legalization, is not impoverishing them.

The biggest way, though, that we stop these third world countries from being tin pot despotic dictatorships is we have to stop subsidizing their oligarchy through foreign aid. And then, yes, you're right, the Chinese Communist Party is pumping

tons of money into these countries. But finally, and I know this sounds a little bit cruel, is that I care far more about the suffering of Americans than the suffering of other people's countries first. I would too, yeah. And you have to. You have to look after your own people.

You have to draw the line. And it's the old adage, right, guys, if your plane is going down, what do they tell you to do first? You put your mask on first and then the mask on the person that might not be able to put a mask on an infant or someone that might be infirmed. It's the same way as a country. We need to put our own oxygen mask on first and then we can worry about helping other people. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Can I get a help? Hi, folks, Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at Y Reefi. You've probably been hearing me talk about Y Reefi for some time now. We are all in with these guys. you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments. Maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refai will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay.

They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how much they owe. Why Refi can help. Just go to yrefi.com. That's the letter Y, then refi.com. And remember, Y Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to why refi.com and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. I think that the anti-immigration rhetoric you have is not new. I think that you try to paint a picture of it being this current phenomenon that we're facing, but there's been rhetoric from, you know, your side from for a long time throughout the entirety of history. I mean, if we look at the immigration

policies in the U.S., even though Chinese immigrants built the entire Western Railroad, there was still the Chinese Exclusion Act because they were providing insane value to the United States, but we still had these exclusion acts because of xenophobic attitudes. And so this is not a novel idea that, you know, immigrants are bad for the country. So I'm interested in why you think that all of a sudden we need to change the way the United States works. Well, first of all, immigration has gone in great influxes. We basically turned off all immigration in the 1940s and 50s. We had like net zero immigration for almost 15 years.

Most people don't even know that. So we had Ellis Island in the early 1900s, and then we turned on the guzzle of immigration. But let's be honest, for 40 years we have tried this mass immigration project for the last 40 years. Has it worked? Are we a more connected country? have middle class wages kept up? Look at the material data.

Has immigration enriched the well-being of the United States of America, especially the last five or six years? I would say, of course not, actually. We're more divided. We're more factious. And we see this in almost every European country as well. When you import a bunch of people that don't speak your language that are from the third world,

all of a sudden you have mass destabilization happening in your country. It's not a matter of being xenophobic. Instead, it's a matter of being patriotic to your own country and your own citizens. It's not about hating the foreigner. It's about loving the citizen, and your obligation is always to citizens first, not foreigners. So you don't think that the MAGAM movement has led to xenophobic attitudes at all? I don't even know how to answer that. I mean, like... Why not?

Well, because you have to first define what you mean by xenophobic attitudes. I mean, just like you said, you said, I mean, we're living in a divided world. You don't think that comes from people being anti-immigration. No, I think it's the opposite. I think when you you allow a bunch of people that aren't native-born Americans too quickly with no checks, no background, no idea who they are, and flood them into your towns, definitionally, diversity is not a strength when it comes to local community ties. If you don't use it. If you don't use it, I don't know that you're committed to finding its strength.

Hold on. Explain this to me. This is a good question. What country has ever grown stronger the more divided it's been? None, but I'm not saying that we have to get more divided via immigration. No, no, no, but diversity definitionally. will divide you. Unity unifies you. You notice they never say unity is our strength. They say diversity is our strength. In fact, just so we are clear, there is nothing racist or xenophobic

to say that you want your kids to be around people that speak English. There's nothing racist to say that. It actually means that you want to be able to communicate with your neighbor. There's nothing racist and xenophobic to say, for example, we don't want to import people from a far-off distant land that don't share Western values, that don't treat women the same, that don't have the same respect for freedom of speech. So what we see is the unraveling of the United States of America because a country is, again, just undoubtedly, it is the people that inhabit it.

So you have to be very careful what people you allow into your country. Sure, but I think that what you're talking about, this, like, mass shift in American culture is, like, not happening. I think you're fear-mongering. And also, I think that the United States forever has been a mix of culture. I don't really know where you can point to a time in the U.S. history that hasn't included immigrants in its culture. Again, from the 1920s to the 1960s, we had very little immigration in this country, nearly 40 years. In fact, that is what largely led to us becoming a world superpower in the 1950s.

We had the Bracero program back then where we brought in tons of laborers from Mexico to the United States to work in agricultural, and that's how we fed the United States. So I really don't think that you can say that. It was very limited in scope versus what we see today. But again, I will ask a more moral question. Does a politician have first loyalty to its own citizens or to another country citizens? Absolutely. I'm glad you brought this

because I wanted to circle back to my original question about the United States creating instability in the rest of the world. I do think that every single politician, like let's say I'm the prime minister of South Africa, you know, my, It's an incredibly anti-white country. Like, oh my goodness. Okay. Anyway. Dangerously anti-white.

Okay. Anyway. Do you know about that, by the way? You should... apartheid, yes. Oh, no, no, no. It's like they're killing white people in the streets in South Africa. They're stealing farmland. If you don't know about that, that shows how the media's lying to all of you. It is literally a mini-white genocide happening in South Africa right now.

But I don't think that we should... No, it's fine. You brought up South Africa, not me, but yes. That was just an example. Anyway, let's stay on top of it. So let's say I'm the prime business for a country. I do agree with you that my first job is that country, for sure. That's who I'm leading. But considering the United States has created mass violence, instability, and poverty around the world,

you don't think that we have some sort of obligation to the people who then have to flee from that? No. Why not? Wait, hold on. Well, why not? Define your terms. Where have we created mass stability? I'll grant you Iraq.

That was a disaster. Where else? In all of Latin America, in different countries, in Africa, places that, like the Philippines that we colonize, Puerto Rico. Yeah, I mean, of course, I'm always so interested in this as if it's like you can never blame those countries for not having their act together. It's somehow America's fault. Like, oh, it's America's fault that Nicaragua can't get its act together.

It's America's fault, even though we welcome Puerto Rico to become U.S. citizens, like we've colonized them. So here's the paradox. think that Puerto Rico was colonized? No, no, no. I'm saying, though, so if we don't help Puerto Rico were evil, when they become a territory, we colonize them, and we haven't done enough. It's like, which one is it exactly?

So the Puerto Rico was taken from the Spanish as a colony and used as a sugar farm for years, where the workers were paid less than a dollar per day to create sugar for the United States, and it's not really about statehood or independence, it's about letting Puerto Rico decide that for themselves, and anyway, this isn't about Puerto Rico. fine, but more broadly, and I'll get to the final, a couple final questions here. I can sense that

your problem is that, like, America's super successful and these other countries aren't, and foundationally, it's rooted in envy, bitterness, and resentment because we are the world's superpower. It's not because we've held anybody back. It's because we've had incredible people, really good ideas. So you don't think the U.S. has intervened in a negative way in other countries. At times, yes. At times, we've intervened very favorably. Can you at least acknowledge at times that... Sure, there has been aid, but there's also been terrible... Not just AIDS.

South Korea exists because of American involvement. Kuwait exists because of American involvement. But it's not... But to look at American accountability, you have to look at the whole of that accountability. And to say that certain countries are less developed purely on their own fault is to ignore history. No, I can... So that's where we disagree. countries have to take responsibility for their own future

which again this is one of the reasons why so many people hate Israel every other country around there is like a third world country and Israel is super successful and super agenic and they're able to be like one of the wealthiest countries on the planet you're going to wonder what is it that they're doing oh it's the Jews because they're stealing all this money no actually they like work super hard and they don't believe in Islam and they actually like wow and the one place

have you ever been to those countries Actually, I have been to Israel, and I've been to the Palestinian Authority. I've been to the West Bank. I've actually visited it. Even if I had, that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong, just for the record. By the way, I encourage you to try to go to Lebanon or Syria. Not exactly the four seasons, right? So, not great. And you don't think that U.S. intervention has anything to do with that?

Partially. But again, to blame the evil U.S. intervention for every single problem is, at its core, intellectually sloppy. I don't think so, because the United States has two times. the military of the rest of the world, and it has been in our DNA to intervene in a military way in other countries. So to say, I mean, you, I know you believe in. So I want to try to square this all the other. I've got to get another question. Just to make sure I'm clear. So you're mad at America for getting involved in other people's countries, right? So America's

bad for that? But then you want everyone to come to America. I thought America's bad. I'm saying that the United States needs to be held accountable. You can't meddle in other countries. So we're held accountable by inviting the entire world here? If you are going to mess up that country, you have to do something about it. Oh, do something. Invite them here. Maybe if you're the reason that they have to leave. No. That at its core, I'm glad you articulated it, is neoconservatism, which is invade the world, invite the world.

Which is that you don't support the invasion part of it, but somehow we have to invite the world as some sort of like mass penance. So, but that's like you invade and then say, oh, no, I don't support the invasions. I'm just, I think you are overly ascribing fault to the United States of America when you're, And in reality, it's these own broken countries that cannot get their own act together. A great example is this, and I'll close to this. El Salvador is actually safer than America. It has billions of dollars flowing into El Salvador. Why?

Because they elected Buckele, who decided to go after MS-13 and clean up the streets of El Salvador. Which, again, it was because they decided to do good things with massive action. Countries can be wealthy. Singapore is wealthy. You could be a very wealthy country if you embrace Western market ideas, private property with low crime, and it's not always...

I mean, in the case of El Salvador, the United States was the reason that the country broke down into gang warfare, and now if you look at the way they were able to turn around, they had to declare a state of emergency, just to be able to turn things around. It's just like, this is where we're different, and then we have to get going.

I look at America as a force for good. You look at everything wrong, and you say it must be America. No, sir. I'm looking at bad things that they have done and calling for accountability. Okay. Again, I... Maybe we disagree.

I don't know. I guess I think we're a wonderful country and I think of a country as poor. They're poor by choice and they have to be able to get their act together, make better decisions, and stop acting like victims all the time. Thank you very much. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.