The Charlie Kirk Show - Continuing the Revival Charlie's Martyrdom Started

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Charlie's greatest wish was to see a grand revival of faith in America, and after his martyrdom the seeds of that revival are sprouting. Pastors Mark Driscoll and Josh McPherson join to talk about how that revival can be nurtured for the long haul. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.comSupport the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Buckle off, everybody here. We go. I don't know if anyone is ever going to see this video, but hi, my name is Haley, and Charlie Kirk's death led me to give my life fully to Jesus Christ. Charlie's death really ignited a spiritual flame inside of me that I have never, never in my life experienced before. It is, it's like a spiritual switch. I didn't know Charlie Kirk never met that guy before in my life. And something else that I've never done before in my life is believing God. I'm going to wear this suit to church. I'm going to go to church.

I'm going to try to be a better father, husband, and leader for my family. I've never ever opened the Bible before. In fact, I know nothing about Christianity or Jesus. But yesterday, after witnessing the assassination of Charlie Kirk, I something was calling me to my husband's Bible I'm going to be heading to church here shortly I'm excited to go and learn and get to meet new people something that I've been wanting to do for a while so the first time ever in over 15 years I'm going to church it has been so heavy on my heart that I just I needed something so after Charlie Kirk's death and seeing what this world world truly is, now's the time. There's no more waiting. This was my first time going to church in almost seven years, maybe even more than seven years. I went to church today because of Charlie Kirk and his family. I am heading to church today. I have my Bible today. There was

literally dust on the cover when I pulled it out. I've seen so many videos this week of Charlie talking about how time and time again, like he wants to be known for his above all else. And I'm trying to be more of like Charlie Kirk, and maybe if someone sees this video, they'll be encouraged to walk back into a church today, too. We are ready for church. Now, I've not been to church in years. Today will be my son's first day, the first time to the church. And today is the first time that me and my fiance together collectively are going to church. Today is the first day that my family, my family, going to church. So this is all because of Charlie and his gospel, his words. And today starts

our turning point. I just arrived at church for the first time in a very long time. I needed some kind of refuge, some kind of, you know, hope that not all is lost. Well, it's Sunday morning and I'm going to church for the first time in about 12 years. I'm about to do something that I have not done in 25 years and I have never done of my own volition. I'm going to church. Good morning. I thought I'd come on quick and give an update of what I'm doing today because I'm actually really excited and really looking forward to it.

I'm actually headed to church for Sunday service for the first time in a long time. I just went to church for the first time in several years. I had tickets to see Charlie, October 29th at Ole Miss. I was really looking forward to it. I've been a lifelong atheist. I never believed in God, but I saw the joy that it brought to Charlie. And it brought me to God and really moved me to see him. And I was looking forward to meeting him and telling him that you help you find God.

After 10 years, not reading any scripture, not stepping foot in church, not even making a prayer. Charlie Kirk is the main reason for me finding my faith again. You don't think it's crazy to get in church. Here's the line for the second service. And there's never a line. By the way, there's never a line. There's never been a line here. Charlie Kirk, look what you did.

No parking. No parking at all. None. How to park like five blocks away from church. Because everyone wants to come now. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Charlie.

All right. Welcome to the Charlie. Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvette, executive producer of this fine show. And we have had quite a weekend. I will tell you that watching, if you were watching on Real America's voice or on the stream, you saw an intro that our team put together talking about how many people are going back to church because of what happened to Charlie. And you've heard a lot of people talking about revival. You've been hearing a lot of people bring up that God is working in their hearts for the first time and a long time that they're opening their Bible. So I wanted to have a show devoted

to that question. What is revival? What does it mean? What are the necessary ingredients that make up a revival? And how do we ensure that we do all that we can to press into it and pour into it so that it grows and grows and grows? How do we not thwart the spirit? So joining me today are two men that know all about that topic and they've studied it. And they know much more than I do about it. So, and by the way, one of which book that we mentioned last week because it was one of Charlie's favorites, and that's Doctrine by Pastor Mark Driscoll. So welcome, Pastor Mark. Yeah, good to see you.

Thanks for having. And thank you for your team. Just cannot even imagine the difficulty of processing the grief of the loss of someone that you love and also the increased workload. So thank you for leading the team and praying for you and Erica and everybody. Well, thank you, Pastor Mark. We feel the prayers. I think I told you before that this is the first time in my life where I could say I feel the prayers of strangers all around the country and world.

And I think that's, you know, a big part of what you're seeing us pull off and whether to be the memorial or getting the show together and growing the tour and so many things. I'm so proud of the team. So I'm with you on that. And then Pastor Josh McPherson, did I get it? You got it, nail it. Sort of, ish. He's going to be nice about it. And you're up in the state of Washington,

Wenatchee, and you have stronger mannation.com, stronger mannation.com. And you've been in and around TPSA Faith and some of the team with us. So, honor to have you as well to talk about this. I know you preached about revival over the weekend. Yes, it's an honor to be here. And just echo what Mark said, marveling at the strength and grace of your team in light of the events. And I'm very grateful what you guys are doing and here to serve.

Well, that's amazing. So, Pastor Mark, start with you. You watch the intro, and it's basically clip after clip after clip of people that don't look like the, you know, probably the image a lot of people have of what a Sunday Christian looks like. And yet here they are being so dramatically impacted by the legacy of Charlie and the life he led, the message he preached. Are we seeing this at the local level with your guys' communities that you pastor? Are you hearing about it from other pastors that you know? Yeah, so start maybe at a higher level. So a martyr is someone who dies for their faith.

And so the Bible is written in a couple of ancient languages. One of them is Greek. And the word means witness or testimony. And you know that somebody really believes something when they're willing to die for it. That's the ultimate allegiance that you can demonstrate. And so the first saints in the history of the Christian church, were martyrs. They were people who were basically willing to die for their love and devotion to Jesus Christ as God and Lord and Savior. And so the first Christians, they died out of their

love for Jesus. Early reports say that in the first few centuries of the church, there were between five and ten million martyrs. Wow. I mean, so we just had, we just had a funeral for a great man. Imagine five or ten million of those. And then Tertullian, the church father, in the third century. He said that the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. And so the reason that Christianity spread so wildly and rapidly is people no longer fear death. And so, you know, there is a mockery even of death in 1st Corinthians 15. Wero death is your sting. Wherow death is your victory. I said that in my speech, actually.

You did. And you did a great job. And I want to honor you for that. And so within that, once Jesus came back from death, the believers no longer fear death because the issue of the Christian faith is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the issue. And so once death is defeated, it is no longer feared. So people are willing to die for Jesus. And that was an incredible witness and testimony. And so when Charlie died, he died publicly. I can't think of a more public death in my lifetime. There hasn't been one. And it was surreal for me, and I'm sure for for most you watching on the phone going is this AI is this is this not real this can't be real i'm praying lord jesus please i hope it is not real but charlie loved jesus christ and his highest

allegiance and devotion was to jesus christ you know that i know that and so when it came to the funeral everyone who talked about charlie had to talk about jesus because jesus was the person charlie was always talking about and so now in his wake what i really honor about charlie and i really appreciate about Erica, they pointed everybody who was following them in the right direction. Get a Bible, go to church, keep going, Erica said, and now people are actually following their leadership and their example, which is incredibly honoring to the Lord Jesus, and there'll be incredible blessing that comes upon them in the organization for that act of obedience. That's right.

That's right. We're seeing it on a local level. I'm in touch with, you know, over 50 pastors and different text threads talking constantly. And there's been a series, I think, of tests for churches and pastors in the last five years. COVID, different administrations, you know, BLM, these kind of things. Would you say it's four, like COVID was a test? COVID was a test. So then Black Lives Matter was a test.

The election was a test. And the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, those are four tests for pastors and churches to take. That's exactly right. And pastors who are passing the test. in terms of stepping out, being public, being more bold, being more clear, setting forth the truth plainly, not worrying about parties, but cutting through the noise to speak the truth and not being afraid to recognize that there is not symmetry

between political parties right now in terms of morality and being willing to call that out. Across the board, Andrew, we're seeing those churches and those pastors, Easter-level attendance, Easter-level salvation responses. It's like there's a moment where, And we're talking all day, you know, with these pastors and they're like, you know, up 35%, up 45%, one church up 80%. And just an outpouring of people, like at my church, we baptized 45 people yesterday, the consistent testimony, I'll tell one story, this is negative on myself, a guy had been coming to Grey City Church for 10 years. A little embarrassing, 10 years.

In a city group, his wife, a follower, stubborn, unwilling to submit to Jesus, have been following. Charlie had heard a hundred sermons from me following Charlie and Wednesday afternoon God breaks him and as a result of this event in Charlie's martyrdom he breaks down weeping in his office gives his life to Jesus he's this introverted quiet guy who would follow his wife to church but never talked about Jesus we have not been able to shut him up he's bringing neighbors and friends and co-workers radically saved in the wake of this horrific event That reminds me when I got saved. I couldn't stop reading the Bible and I couldn't stop talking about it with people.

I think that's actually a really interesting proof point when somebody is really safe. I am so honored by your guys' presence here today, and I can't think of a more important topic than revival. What is it? What is it? I think a lot of people are conflating it with patriotism. They're conflating it with just this, I think, a subconscious desire to be bolder, to live better. Those are all good things. but I believe you guys would agree with me and say, but not a revival does it make, right?

So what would be your message for people that are feeling like this stirring, they're hearing the word revival, they have no idea what the heck it means? What's a quick word for what that is? You're just preached on it, buddy. Yeah. Well, Mark's talked about it before. There's a counterfeit to revival, and that's rioting. And I think what we saw in the wake of Charlie's murder

was evidence that God's doing something unique. No cities burned. No precincts were shot up. Nobody was destroying businesses. It was prayer vigils. It was worship services. The memorial that we sat that you guys led was a remarkably profound experience

that I will not be matched in my lifetime because as you said, Charlie, by the nature of how he lived his life, put Jesus in the mouth of anyone who wanted to talk about his life because it was the most important thing. And so one of the things I think that Mark's revival and Mark's a lot of study on this is the suddenly of God. The God who is everywhere decides to be somewhere.

So there's the omnipresence of God where he's everywhere. And then revival, I think, one marked it is where the manifest presence of God overrides the omnipotence of God. And it's kind of like taking a magnifying glass of my buddy says and takes the sun that's everywhere and all of a sudden concentrates it, takes the global sun and concentrates it in a local area it could be a church a region a nation

and i think what we're seeing at least what i'm my observation of pastors and churches in my local context and buddies across the country is the universal experience of increased supernatural spiritual hunger for god and that's the mark they they're curious and they're hungry and they're talking about jesus they're talking about the word of god they have an interest in eternal things that we're not there yesterday and you can't explain it by efforts that man have made it's a supernatural outpouring from heaven that that accelerates the work of the kingdom so work we would have seen in 10 years happens in 24 hours i mean you're seeing that with it's a tangible feeling yeah it's a feeling i'll never forget when tucker came up

to the stage at the memorial and he said the holy spirit is humming like a tuning fork in here it was like everybody could just feel the manifest presence of god as you said and i mean but i was hearing people feel that all over the place, watching on their TVs. This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and founding partner of Y-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-E-Fi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come. Now, hear Charlie in his own words tell you about Y-R-R-R-R-E-F-Y-F-I.

I'm going to tell you guys about Y-R-R-E-F-Y-F-com. Refi is incredible. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi is refinancing distress or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget. Go to whyrefi.com. That is why refi.com. Do you have a co-borrower? Why refi can get them released from the loan. You're going to skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty. It may not be available in all 50 states. Go to yrefi.com. That is YR-R-E-F-Y.com. Let's face it, if you have distress or default to student loans, loans, it can be overwhelming.

Because of private student loan debt, so many people feel stuck, go to yrefi.com. That is y-R-E-F-Y-F-Y.com. Private student loan debt relief, Y-Refi.com. We're talking about revival, and we're just talking about this manifest presence of God, and that you can sort of feel the Holy Spirit. Is that common that that's this outpouring, when you look at the history of revival? By the way, tell us some examples of a revival. so that we have something to compare it to it.

Yeah, so, and thank you for the honor of having the conversation. And it's, for those who don't know, it's wild because, I mean, I've known you for how long? I want to say 20 years. Which is wild. You were in college. Teaching your kids on Sunday school at March Hill, that's one of the stories. Yeah, wild. Yeah.

Wild. And so what happens is what precedes revival is often a new way of distributing information. So in the days of the New Testament, you wouldn't get Christianity in the, apostle Paul unless you had Roman peace and the road system so then Christianity could spread and similarly when you get new technology it

tends to be used of God for revival so for example the printing press with Johann Gutenberg it allowed the Protestant Reformation then comes the advent of technology that allows people to meet in stadiums well now you get the Billy Graham's he couldn't do that before you get

radio now you're getting to go into countries in closed areas then you get television and now it's a new opportunity and now we're in a digital age and charlie showed with his life and legacy the impact of new media so what precedes uh revival oftentimes is new technology that opens new opportunity and then what usually happens in uh revival god isn't doing something new he's doing what he's always doing in deeper and greater measure god is always saving people god is always changing people. God is always manifesting himself.

But in a revival, it goes from like a creek to a torrent river. Flash flood. Yeah, to a flash flood. And all of a sudden it's like, okay, we're used to a few people coming to church or reading their Bible or asking about Jesus. And now all of a sudden it is a moment. And so revival is usually preceded by a moment.

And in the early church, that moment was the martyrdom of Stephen. The first martyr in the New Testament. And And actually, revival started first time that I remember in the Old Testament with the murder of Abel. Kane kills Abel. The first martyr in the Bible was Abel. And then it says, at that time, people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

And so historically, there is a moment, oftentimes that moment is a martyrdom, and then there's a movement. And so it goes from a moment to a movement. And now that person's life becomes their legacy and other people are following in their footsteps and wake. With the death of Charlie Kirk and his clarity about the gospel of Jesus Christ and him answering questions about Christ right before he was murdered, we now have a moment. The question is, will it become a movement? In 10 years of people are still reading their Bible and still going to church and still learning about Jesus, you know you've got a movement.

Historically, one of the most interesting things in the history of movements, they tend to be ignited by young people. I wrote a few notes down. So Jonathan, Edward during the Great Awakening's. He started preaching at 19. George Whitfield, 25. Circuit riders were in their 20s. The average died by their early 30s. The Methodist, the Methodist, yep, D.L. Moody. They were amazing. They rode themselves into the ground. Yeah, there were certain guys that literally killed six horses just riding to preach. D.L. Moody, 21, Bonhofer, 25, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, 19, Billy Graham, 19. Charlie Kirk 18, started proclaiming.

blaming. And what you see is that most revivals are led by youth. The United, this will be shocking to people who think that it's all political and not spiritual. The United States of America was an attempt at a youth movement to spark a revival. The pilgrims who landed and the Puritans who landed tended to be in their teens and 20s and they were rejected and mocked for being quote, mere children. And they were coming to establish religious liberty and freedom. Historically, we saw it with the Jesus movements in the 60s and 70s. The entirety of the They're all hippies. They were all hippies and young. In the second great awakening, it was mainly college kids. So when revival hits, it's new technology. It's a moment that activates a young

generation that leads to a movement. And so we have all of the ingredients are here. And I hope and I pray that that is exactly what we're on the precipice of. Yeah, I just want to affirm some of your observations there i mean i was in the room i was watching the analytics come through and we would see we did 15 billion views on social media it's insane in the lead up to the election and then we we basically doubled it in the in the spring after it so i mean we we just and i kept telling charlie i was like you are insanely famous man we need to like but you didn't really know it no i didn't i kept going like it was i i tweeted really close after we kept having to recalibrate because I just was like on a two-year delay somehow

of just how many people knew who he was and I was like, I'm still getting used to this. I felt like I was always on this delay counter and then I would take Charlie somewhere very obscure and I would be like, whoa, everybody, like this happened real quick because he was always famous but all of a sudden it went like Beatles level and it was this something happened where the God was moving and Charlie was answering the call

and we you know it was it was providential there's no way to not see it that way it's the anointing of the holy spirit is what we would say that god decided i'm going to put some some extra grace and favor on this man for this moment and that's exactly what happened it was like you know i'll you know we joke about charlie didn't know what the word riz was you know here he is like the gen z whisper it's like their favorite word and charles like what's what's riz and but that was how people were describing charlie they were like you Charlie's got so much Riz, and yeah, it wasn't an anointing that had come on him, especially in those last couple years.

And you saw TikTok just went through the roof, YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram, of course. Charlie had the number one Instagram account of anybody, any conservative, if you will. And our team did a great job with it. But you were just seeing this going like, what's happening? And, you know, we thought of it as, you know, we're trying to get Trump elected. obviously we're Christians. We're going to speak faithfully about our Christian faith. And I was telling you guys this before we came on air

that it was like as soon as this happened, the scales fell off my eyes. And I realized what we had actually been doing the whole time, what Charlie had been doing the whole time. And that was, you know, we called them college debates, but they were tent revivals, complete with the tent. And Charlie was a prophet. And what did they do to prophets?

They kill the prophets. And because he confronted evil, and he proclaimed the truth in an age that is full of a bunch of lies. But it's interesting that even we didn't understand that. And I wonder how common that is for people that are in and around and associated with movements. It's like God hit it from us because he knows, he was almost like he knew we would have screwed it up if we would have, if we would have had full vision of it.

And as soon as he died, I was like, I was getting just hit by revelations about what we had been up to. Well, I think one of the, one of the distinct marks of revival, is that it's something God's doing. Man's not manufacturing it. Man's not running a really captivating PR scheme. Man's not crushing the optics. It's something that God is supernaturally, providentially deciding to do.

He decides when to do it. He decides who to use. And I think there is something to the fact that God goes where he's wanted. John Tyson has studied revivals, and he did like four-month tour with his family, and he came away with the one takeaway. He's like, God goes where he's wanted.

And so there is something that, I think, draws the manifest presence of God in our hunger and our desire and our prayer and our seeking and yet God chooses the times and the days to do what he wants. And I think God was providentially using Charlie and your team in ways you probably didn't know. And God shield you from that for the sake of humility and for the sake of keeping you on point. And I had the sense at least the memorial, did anyone have any clue how big a deal Charlie was and how far his reach went? I mean, you're looking at the cabinet and the most powerful man in the world, the most richest man in the world and everybody in between. I have people in my church, never met him, listened to him twice,

felt like they lost a brother. It's just this remarkable impact he had in such a short amount of time and no one can take credit for that. That's something that God is providentially, sovereignly doing. And so part of the Mark Revival is it's not something that man creates or manufactures, but we must recognize it and then step into it and take advantage of it with, I believe, bold proclamation from at least a pastor's perspective because you look in the old test or the new testament rather in the book of acts the rhythm is test bold proclamation revival riot and response new test and they have a chance to respond with boldness and courage or cowardice in retreat god's spirit moves or is removed if they respond in boldness god's spirit falls more revival

and they grew day by day those who are being saved and then you get smeared and attack and riot breaks out and that's the pattern that we see in the book of action I think we're in the middle of that pattern right now there was bold proclamation God's poured out his spirit with this revival moment

now there'll be riots and response and smear Charlie smears leg all that kind of stuff and we're going to be tested again as a church will we respond with boldness and clarity or will we back off and cower gosh that reminds me something you said about but I don't want to hit it yet because we're about to have our

our longest segment of the hour and I think it's perfect for it but you know I will say this you're talking about where God goes where he's wanted yeah and I'm reminded you know I helped with a vineyard church plant in Los Angeles at some point and there was always one of the famous stories in the vineyard is that Wimber who started the vineyard church movement prayed for four years for miracles and just nothing nothing nothing and it does remind me of Charlie with this youth movement like he wanted to reach the youth and it was like headache bang your head against a wall for years, years, years, and then eventually it was just like, the floodgates, you know, sprung open.

Our good friends at Angel Studios, I love Angel Studios, amazing new film this Holy Week, phenomenal. As I think about Charlie's life and how much of a supporter was of Angel, it's hard not to feel so grateful for what he did. He supported us in our darkest days and in our brightest hours as a company. Jeff and I and Charlie were doing lunch together. We asked him, he said, are you, are you at all worried about one of these college campuses? And he just said, there was so much peace in his eyes and so much peace in his heart. If that's how God takes me, then that's how I'm supposed to go. And I feel like that was a clear message that Charlie's life is a testimony to Jesus Christ, his Lord and Savior. And his relationship

with him was the most important thing that he would want the world to remember about his legacy. are we grateful to have gotten to be a little connection in the multitude of connections that he made throughout his life because it was so impactful to us. Thank you, Charlie. Love you. We miss you. We're going to continue to drive forward to good news. So, so I was just telling you about, because God goes where he's wanted. and Charlie wanted this. He wanted to see the youth. He devoted his life from the time of being 18, and he was mocked and ridiculed and told it was, you know,

a fool's errand, and he just kept at it. He just kept at it. He just kept at it. And then all of a sudden, you saw that spring forth. And I was relating to you that story of John Wimber, who founded the vineyard, and he really wanted to see God's miracles. We could debate the merits of whether that was useful or not. But he worked at it like a fool for,

four years. There's pure hunger and desire. Sure hunger and desire. And then all of a sudden if you know anything about the Vineyard Church movement, it explodes. It explodes. Worship movement. Yeah. And they have this Toronto blessing and a bunch of people experience a manifest presence

of the Holy Spirit there. So I'm not relating the two, but there is this sort of thing where I want to tell people out in the audience, if you hunger and desire for the things of the Lord, if you push when it feels like you're getting nowhere, sometimes God's going to answer that. moment with something truly remarkable. I'm not promising it. God will do what he will do, but I just couldn't help but think about how badly Charlie wanted this. And so to see it come to fruition is amazing.

And then to hear you say that revival starts with the youth. I mean, there was, you'd go to one campus and put Charlie there. And these kids were hanging from lamp posts and finding stairs to climb up and hanging on railing. And you couldn't fit them all in these, in these campus squares. And it just, it feels like that's what's happening. then you put together the final thing and then the floor is yours mark is when we met you said what we're going to see is god going to bypass the pulpit so yes i believe that so in addition to revival there's reformation so reformation is god pruning cleaning up a church oftentimes because of its cowardice or tolerance and tolerance is the counterfeit of repentance and so

any of the churches that have brought in sort of bought into the progressive agenda of tolerance they are not honoring God because that is the counterfeit of repentance and so I believe that Reformation is God cleaning up the church and then revival is God bringing people to himself but if people want to go to church if the church doesn't have any courage or clarity

it's not going to be helpful to those new people and so this is I believe what God is doing is he is in this moment he has bypassed the pulpits and he instead chose to have the gospel preached in the largest platform in the history of the world And there's two things, actually three things I want to say about that. Number one, when we had lunch and, you know, it was just good to catch up with you,

there was one thing that I felt that the Holy Spirit told me to tell you, and that is that whoever decided to allow the live stream of Charlie's funeral and memorial to not be copyrighted, but to be freely shared to say thank you on behalf of Jesus Christ, because that permitted the biggest gospel presentation in my awareness of any moment in the history of humanity that's right and I believe you made that decision to allow it to be streamed and not copyrighted and for those who are tuning in there's money there's power there's favors that can be curried through taking that moment and trying to monetize it and what you chose to do was maximize it that's right and so in that moment

we as pastors honor you that's right because in that moment you decided i'm going to allow the most people to hear about jesus and not worry about what i get in return yeah and so i know i was your pastor for some years and i love you and i just want to say i'm incredibly proud of you that's right and on behalf of jesus christ and christians thank you for being the person who allowed the gospel to go out to the largest audience in the history of humanity that's huge and most people don't know that that was your choice and I know it was with Erica's full support. Totally. Yeah, it wasn't just me.

But the whole team didn't even question when it was like, no, we got to go forward and this is for everybody for Charlie for the gospel. But then too, the other thing, not to interrupt you my friend, but the moment that if revival does break out where there was

I believe a shifting, a breaking in the unseen realm was Erica Kirk. That's right. She was elegant, courageous, emotionally present, completely appropriate, devotedly loyal to her God and her husband and her family. Yes. But the moment was when she chose forgiveness over unforgiveness and bitterness and

vengeance. And to me, revival is all about the forgiveness of sin. Yes. And she modeled, if she could, this is like, I want to be careful. with us. I don't want to turn Charlie into Jesus. I know that Charlie knew that he wasn't Jesus. But when Jesus was on the cross, he prayed, Father, forgive them. When Stephen the martyr was being martyred as the first martyr in the New Testament church, he echoed Jesus' words and he said, Father, forgive them. And then when Erica said, I forgive him. Forgiveness of sin is

what unleashes the power of the Holy Spirit. And revival is all about one thing. The forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ and so in that moment Erica used the platform that God gave her and in that moment God bypassed many pulpits and there was more courage and clarity with the presentation of Jesus on that day than in many pulpits and and we were sitting there next we kept looking at each other we're we're pastors and it was wild it was just it was like is is anybody not going to do it I mean is everybody hear an evangelist? I mean, it was wild. I know. And to hear... Even like

Tulsi, who's, you know, not a Christian. She got darn close. She tried. She tried. She died. She died. She got about to preach the gospel. Hey, man, let's go. And I'll leave it at this. The second, the second moment to me that was incredibly sacred and could be the Sparker Revival was the humility of J.D. Vance. When he said, basically, I'm paraphrasing that I've always been a

Christian, but I've not spoken openly and boldly as odd. And I've talked more about Jesus in the last few weeks than I have in my whole life that to be the vice president of the united states of america and to publicly confess that your allegiance to jesus has been less than 100 percent you you don't have to do that yeah and he did that and he did that as an example of humility and i would say to all pastors and christian leaders who maybe have not been totally courageous and fearless follow his example and apologize to your people. And so in that too, though, I mean, when J.D. did that, I believe that if he is going to become

our next president, I believe that was the moment because that was the moment that he chose humility and to honor Jesus above all else. And I believe Jesus honors those who live under his authority. But you were saying backstage that that wasn't part of his notes. No, he ad lit that moment. Yeah, because I could see backstage. I mean, it was a surreal backstage. You got President Trump walking around. you know, Don Jr. and Pete Hegseth and all these people, right? And I'm watching. Don Jr., who, by the way, preached a great sermon on the martyrdom of Stephen.

He did a good job. And when Hercostep... And when HECSeth said Jesus is king overall, and I'm like, you run the Department of War, and you're under authority. That's right. I interrupted. No, you're absolutely right. Well, I want to give J.D. a little bit more, you know, kudos here. He's not held back since.

he's changed check out clip 18 you said that you hadn't read the bible or talked about the bible as much as you have in the last two weeks since charlie was killed i always felt uncomfortable talking about that because i grew up in a country that was very secular i don't feel uncomfortable talking about that stuff anymore i'm going to talk about god i'm going to talk about my faith because that's what charlie would want and i think it's the best way to honor my friend when he said that i had a thought and this is kind of for theology nerds. Aaron Rinn wrote an article that was kind of broke up evangelicalism into three kind of epochs of time.

1954 to 1994 was Positive World, where it was socially advantageous to be public with your faith. You couldn't get elected for a public office unless you identify with Protestant or Catholic Christianity, you know, all these kind of things, leave it to Beaver era and whatever. And then he identifies 1994 to 2014 as neutral world, where Christianity's stock is kind of falling.

It's not necessarily socially advantageous to identify as a Christian anymore, but it's not socially different advantageous. Yeah, it's just neutral. So if people weren't hostile, they were just indifferent to Christianity, right? And in 2014, he marks a distinct change. Obergefell, we have a ruling in the highest core of the land,

that's now codifying anti-Christian morality into our code of law. So that's the change, right? And he marks other social things, where we went from culture being neutral or indifferent towards Christianity to culture being hostile towards Christianity. So now it wasn't just socially advantageous

or neutral, it's now socially disadvantageous to identify yourself as a Christian. Christians go underground, okay? There's open hostility towards Christianity and what we see is people having a sense of moral duty to suppress Christianity because it's evil now, right? One of the marks of this era has been

like the public offense is to go public with your Christianity. I had the thought, just a sense of my spirit, when J.D. said that something broke in the reality of neutral. He's saying, I will now be aggressively, unapologetically, consistently, passionately, clearly public about my faith. And when you have one of the highest authorities in the land saying that, something's changed and something shifted. And Charlie was doing that when it was dangerous

and when it was costly and when very few other people would do it. now you're seeing the prophetical first right boom there's a there's a there's a there's a breach in the wall and it feels like talking publicly about jesus now is could start becoming a cultural norm where it was culturally disembated changes before which is pretty well to think about the impact that could have is it ripples throughout the land yeah i that's kind of where i was going to go with next but we're already there is you know we have one minute here real quick mark but you know i were I think people worry about the purity of the gospel being diluted a little bit when the leaders start happening.

That's not what I saw, though. I saw a very sincere presentation from the heart, from the most power. Yeah, from the most powerful people on the, you know, in the planet. And is there power in that? I mean, obviously it's what we've always wanted. But there is a concern, I don't know, for me, that it would become hijacked somehow or, you know. Movements are messy. They just are.

And there's going to be mistakes made, and then there'll be, you know, changes made. And that's just the nature of everything that is in the process of growing and flourishing. There's a little pruning along the way. Yeah, well, because you think about the Roman Empire, right? It was when it was underground, it was spreading like wildfire. When it became institutionalized, that's when... Get some corruption. Get some corruption.

That's right. That's just something I've been reflecting on. Because you can't, there's not a one-to-one parallel between an old movement and a new movement. Right? We have new wine skin, right? And so we're going to look something we talked about at our lunch is a new wine skin. So you can't, there's parallels. You see trends in other revivals, but this is going to be something of its own. So to see, yes, in the Roman Empire, when it got, when Christianity became institutionalized, there was corruption that set in. But it also spread a lot still. And if you see the conquering of the, the spread of Christianity throughout Europe, you know, in the Middle Ages. I mean, and. it probably wouldn't have done that without the institutional might of the Roman Empire, and then, you know, as it splintered off, the power center that was still in Rome. And so there can be really forceful good things when people of power grab hold of the gospel and step into this new thing that God is doing.

Yeah, and we talked about it at launch. Jesus uses this little parable that new wine needs to go into new wine skins. You can't put new wine into old wine skins. And in context, what he's saying is when there's a new move of God, when there's a new movement of the Holy Spirit, it's like new wine. It's still fermenting and bubbling and it's explosive and it's not stable. And that's what happens when there is a revival. It's a new wine.

The problem is, Jesus says, you put it in an old wine skin. Well, an old wine skin, the wine that it contains is settled. It's no longer moving. And so that skin gets stale. A lot of churches and denominations, old wine skins, what's happening? now could be new wine you're going to need new wine skins new churches new ministries new new movements new leaders new styles to handle the new wine and churches that won't talk about charlie they're just proving that they're the old wine skin or schools and universities i mean

guys i'm getting i'm getting flooded yeah with people you know there's a story i won't i won't break it now i'm getting a whistleblower just why we've been on the show of a major company in america that won't let their employees donate to turning point right now because they have like a match they won't they have a match program right so if you're a company you can donate oh i know this company i won't say but yeah i'm not ready yet i got to talk to them but i'm being alerted to this you know over the weekend i i highlighted lipscomb academy which is a christian school in nashville where a bunch of conservatives prominent ones send their kids to this school and about 20 young men showed up in suits and ties to honor Charlie the day after he was murdered and the principal called

him in and said you got to take those off it's against dress code because there's nothing worse than young men wearing a suit and ties yeah and it's funny I told you this before the show there's just like a feeling that men want to put a suit jacket on that's a good thing they want to grow up it's a good thing put your shoulders back that's right own your life be a man that's right move forward with dignity and respect that's a good thing yeah and this school shut it down and punish the kids and they haven't uttered Charlie's name since. And so all the parents and teachers are really upset over at Lipscomb Academy. We're going to be watching you, Lipscomb.

Well, you were talking earlier about, okay, what happens when the lines get blurred and government, you know, Christianity, how this works. I think one of the things to keep in mind is, and this is more kind of Khyperian jurisdictional theology, but God has different spheres of human sovereignty, and he appoints those spheres with responsibility and authority. So you have the family, the household. Mom and dad are an authority over the kids. Their responsibility is to raise the kids, shepherd the kids, educate the kids, the well-being of the family.

Then you have the church. Their responsibility is to preach the pure gospel, to administer the sacraments, and to be a culture and government's conscience in the bold declaration of the truth. And then you have the government, and it's a distinct lane that God's given authority to and responsibility for, but it's a small lane.

And I think Charlie understood that. But if that lane grows, it starts impeding on the other lanes to the detriment of all the jurisdictions. But the point is, God has given them a job, and it's to bear the sword against evildoers. It's to reward the righteous, and it's to defend the people by allowing there to be an orderly nation by protecting borders. That's Romans 13. And so I don't need those in government to necessarily even preach the gospel. I mean, the memorial was, like, amazing.

What I need them to do is to do the job. So one of my favorite speeches was Stephen Miller. when he stood up and he's like you are nothing you have nothing we're coming after you it's it's like i want the preachers to preach the gospel and i want the government to bear the sword against unrighteousness and then you're into morality who gets to define what's righteous what's unrighteous who gets declared the standard of morality so we need our government to to be built on the morality of something and so the whole idea that's being exposed i think is the myth of um the neutrality of secularism. Every government has to have a worldview that they draw from to know how to do their

job. And so the beauty of, like, I don't need our government officials to preach the gospel, but we need them to stand on the foundation of the moral law of God so they can do their job and really stay out of the church's lane, which is what we could get into later if we wanted to, what we're seeing happen in the White House. I think they understand the need for the government to get smaller so the church can do their job. Yeah, one of the things I do want to talk about is the tendency of the mainstream news media to describe what's happened. as Christian nationalism. So I do want to get to that. And I think that's instantly where I go there. But I, you know, the other thought that I have just based on what you're saying is that Charlie was

expert at sort of not bifurcating his faith and not compartmentalizing his faith. His faith was just everywhere all the time. It didn't matter what he was talking about. And I noticed the same instinct that I have. It's like, well, okay, I'm talking about Lipscomb Academy, you know, on Twitter and X saying, listen, I'm hearing a lot of really bad things. Like people running that school are not on the team. As a matter of fact, they're hostile to a lot of what God is doing in this moment, and they're hostile to the kids that love Charlie. Well, that doesn't feel very Nashville conservative enclave. It feels like people have infiltrated that school that need to be fired. And it happens all over. But that comes from my Christian conviction. That comes from

a sense of righteousness. Like, I'm not putting one in one compartment and putting another in another compartment, I'm saying, listen, Charlie, Charlie was confronting evil wherever he saw and he's proclaiming the truth. Well, you punish kids for, you know, trying to honor Charlie by wearing a suit and a tie. That's an amazing gesture. You should have honored that and they didn't. And you talk about tests. And it's like, you passed the test or you failed the test. Well, they failed it. And I don't see it any other way. Now, listen, the school's going to do what they're going to do. But I think there's a power in us as Christians not saying, well, I put my Christianity here on Sunday and then when I go to Washington, D.C. as your congressman or as your

vice president or whatever, I'm going to put it over here and I'm going to put my faith in a little box. There is a power being unleashed and I got to believe that that's part of the new wine skin because the devil knew that this was going to happen or something. He was helping architect. Yeah. And by the way, and exactly, but God, like there's, and I think he's laying the trap. So Christian National, Christian National, well, guess what was going to happen? Charlie Kirk was going to die, a martyr's death, and then the world's most powerful leaders were going to get up on a stage with 100 million people streaming it, and they were going to start speaking the truth about Jesus Christ. And guess what? Christian nationalism. Is that really Christian nationalism, or is that

just living your faith in public? Well, so Jesus is Lord overall, or he's not Lord at all? We believe that he right now is high and exalted. He's over government. He's over family. He's over nations, cultures, businesses, churches, and so to say, Jesus Christ has jurisdiction. here but not there is to be disloyal to his sovereignty and to his lordship it just is yeah i mean uh even from a sociological perspective you're either going to have nationalism or globalism or globalism or anarchism right and so you're going to have tyranny anarchy or or an orderly society so let's just start there nations are a good thing and then that nation's going to be built on a worldview and we think the christian worldview is a superior worldview that does the

most good for the most people, even those who don't adhere to it. But if our rights come from our crater, the question is, what's his name? That's the question. Look, I know there are a lot of choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service. There are new ones popping up all the time. But the truth is, there's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for. And that is Patriot Mobile. For more than 12 years, Patriot Mobile has been on the front lines fighting for our God-given rights

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use promo code Charlie for a free month of service. That's Patriotmobile.com slash Charlie or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today. So here, I want to now transition our conversation. So I can't use that word anymore by the way. No, that's true. We are going to pivot. We're going to pivot. We're going to pivot a little bit.

I'm going to go to this conversation about Christian. nationalism and i'm going to play some clips of what they're now saying about this and then we're going to talk about the demonic and then i want you guys just prepare your spirits for this i i think it's important that pastors are encouraged warned and you know given some guidance on what this season will entail you talk about new wine skins and new wine so i want to talk about that that's kind of i think where we're going we'll see if if that materializes but i'm to play these two clips here. Let's go ahead and play cut seven. What you're seeing here is a movement called Christian nationalism that merges Christianity

as it's been practiced in America for, you know, centuries with a very specific interpretation of what the founding fathers wanted, what Aristotle wanted, this strain of interpretation of the Bible merge Christianity and protecting the Western civilization values into one and the same thing. All right. So that's Tina Nguyen from Verge. I think she's at the Verge. She was with Puck.

She's been with political. I've actually known her for a long time. She's always been very nice to me in a stand-up operator. I actually told her I was probably going to like slam her with that clip today. But I said I would do it nice because she's actually nice. Listen, she is misinterpreting the signs of the times, but we can get into that in just a second. I told her that. Let's go ahead and play cut.

This is Don LeMond talking about something similar. What we saw in that arena was not simply faith-finding public expression. It was religious nationalism on full display. That is the truth. That is my truth. This is my freedom of expression. This is my First Amendment right to be able to tell you the truth. Mark, is that the truth?

So our nation is founded on. rights. We are told that those rights come not from government, they come from God and that God has authority over government and that all governmental authority is derivative from God. The question then is, what is the name of this God? That's the question. The Muslims would say his name is Allah. The Christians would say his name is Jesus Christ. And so at the end of the day, as soon as you answer the question of what the name of that God is, you're picking a team. And what I find interesting is, this is slanderous. It is, it is fear-based. It is fear-mongering. And as, as Pastor Josh said previously, you get anarchy, you know, which if you want to know what that looks like,

you know, go to Portland tonight. You get globalism where we send all of our young men and dollars overseas until we cease to exist as a country and eradicate our borders and allow criminals and cartels to be in charge or you have nationalism and nationalism is what god says is best for human life and flourishing the first attempt at globalism is back in genesis in a place called babel that is ancient babylon that is today a rock they all have the same language they all get together and they're trying to chase this marxist utopian counterfeit vision of a perfect life on earth without god and it's globalism god looks down and says they're united and And unless we spread them into nations, they're going to do tremendous evil.

So united people without God are dangerous people. And so then God scatters them into nations and he confuses them into languages. And so nationalism is what God did to save us from destroying ourselves. At the end of the age, according to the storyline of the Bible, depending upon your reading, at the end of the age, all the nations will seek to come together into a globalistic vision. but then the question is who gets to be the leader and it's not christ it's the antichrist and so if all power is consolidated globally one demonically satanically possessed person wielding all of that power becomes the end of civilization and so globalism is a naive myth from the earliest days of genesis

and nationalism was god's answer to globalism it says in act 17 god determines the times in places in which we live. God had me, though Irish by descent, born in America in 1970, and that was God's decision for me. I love my God, and I love where he put me. And we were talking to break, Pastor Josh, that, you know, you have this,

you feel like you understand why Charlie was so dangerous to some of these ideas, whether we call it demonic ideas, what we call them just far left ideas. And I don't think all left ideas, just for the record, are demonic. I'm just saying there are some that are demonic. There are some that are left and far left. Why was Charlie so dangerous to kind of this old lie?

Well, I think what made him effective and therefore dangerous was that Charlie was not primarily a political animal. And he said that in his own words. And Charlie's political theory was rooted in biblical theology. and he had an ability like maybe nobody I've ever seen to connect the dots with what's happening in the political realm with what God has said from his moral law and so there's this this obscure quote from John Frame who gave us tri-respectivism I think is kind of where you got it early on and John Frame talked about the necessity of understanding the gospel as the center now there's been a gospel-centered movement in American Christianity in last 20 years but what the gospel

setter movement did, I believe, is turn the gospel from the center to a boundary. So John Frame explains like this, and this is what I think made to Charlie so profound and trigger me on time here for running out. When you view the gospel as a boundary, it means all you can do is talk about the components of the specific gospel, justification by faith alone, regeneration. So real quickly, what is the gospel for those who don't know? Let a rip. It's Jesus Christ.

Jesus is God become a man to live with us. sin, the only human being to ever live without sin, declare himself to be God, the only founder of any major world religion to declare himself to be God, to die on the cross in our place as our substitute for our sins to physically bodily raise from the dead, opening heaven, and triumphing over Satan's sin, death, hell, and the wrath of God. The gospel is the good news about who Jesus is and what Jesus does and no one is who Jesus is and no one does what Jesus does. That's the gospel. Amen. So what the gospel-centered movement did, I believe, is turn the gospel into a boundary. That's all you can talk about. I totally agree. And this is this is one of things with TPSA faith that we did. We said

churches, if you don't speak into this void about, you know, sex and identity and about, you know, borders, gender, gender, whatever. You are leaving this vacuum that will be, filled by people that do not share your values. And so you don't have to agree on post-trib, pre-trib. We're not getting into that. We're saying, speak up, stand up, and speak into the public arena because we are losing our country. The most important thing, and Charlie always says this, was preach the gospel. The second most important thing is to make sure you can do the first. That's right. And so stand up, church, fill the void, do not be cowards. And that was what made him If the pulpits of America don't disciple the culture,

the culture will disciple the culture to themselves because secularism has a God, and it's the God of self. And so when John Frame talks about the gospel being the center, he says in such a way so as to say, it doesn't limit what we talk about, actually gives us permission and obligation to connect everything in life under the sun to the reality of the gospel.

And that's what Charlie did, I believe in such a powerful way. Sex, relationships, politics, governments, and nations, connecting them to the reality of God, most explicitly found in Jesus Christ in the gospel. You know, we're talking about how the church, this moment, could bypass the pulpits, right? But secondly, that there is this other move. There's a whole bunch of pastors that are stepping into this space, and there's a whole bunch that are refusing to utter Charlie's name or whatever.

And which is why, not to interrupt you, my friend, but like, if you talked a lot about George Floyd because people were asking questions, you should talk a lot about Charlie Kirk because people are asking a lot of questions. Just be consistent. Yes. Yeah, no, I think that's, I mean, this is again what happened at Lipscomb, right? You had, I mean, I'm going to keep hitting because it's ridiculous, by the way. But these kids are hurting. They're reeling. The day after. They watch their big brother get murdered on their phone. And so, and they do this beautiful gesture and then they refused to utter, but why, you know, they didn't do the same

thing during George Floyd. They issued a whole statement. They, they, you know, they made sure there was grief counseling, whatever, right? Their changes need to be made and they couldn't even stand up for this cultural moment, this zeitgeist moment that was so much

bigger than anybody, bigger than the show, bigger than, you know, anything. The Polish Parliament had a moment of silence. Correct. Well, and then you see that in our own Congress that people could, you know, the moment of silence. And they tried to pray and it ended up being an absolute conflict.

Yeah, absolutely. If the New York Yankees and the Dallas Cowboys and the Polish Parliament are talking about something and you're not, you might not be tuned into what's going on in the world. Yeah. Well, part of this too is there is something within Christian. I want to be incredibly pejorative, but it's seeker sensitive. But ultimately here, you're being insensitive to those who are seeking.

If there's a whole generation saying, what happens when you die and what happened to Charlie? and are demons real and is Satan real? And we have questions. You're like, we don't talk about that because it's political. No, no. Any question that's being asked,

if you are a pastor or a spiritual leader, you're supposed to open the Bible and answer the question. That's the job. And you're kind of famous for this. You'll talk about all the things, all the things, whether that's sex life,

political life, you know, cultural. Our job is to be helpful. You speak into the void. I mean, you really do. We have a fundamental convention. that Jesus rules and reigns over everything, which is not only permission, but obligation to speak into it. Otherwise, Satan and the culture will disciple people with counterfeit

truth. So it's an obligation to speak into it and speak over it. That's right. That's right. And so I'm going to wait until we get back to radio, but this is the question before us. We're talking about revival. It's marked by youth movements. It's usually led by a young leader. Young leader that started preaching around 18 or 19. Yep. Well, okay. Two ingredients. check check there's a moment that leads to a movement right there is these other ingredients that people are called to repentance and you've got all these people and forgiveness and forgiveness repentance and forgiveness and you know that's been obviously true because his Charlie's legacy in his life was so exemplary that all these you know all these people are like how do I be a better

husband how do I be a better father and you know and so you've got all these things. But then what about the church? Is it bypassing the church? Is it new wine skins? What is your challenge and your instruction to the church? The pastors out there that are seeing their pews filled. And maybe some that aren't. You know, so there's like some, you know, there's a Fox News poll that says churches are experiencing a 15% increase in congregation. Well, some are experiencing 80% or 100% lines out the door. Sure. There is obviously, you know, when we think about revelations, you know, you're going to snuff out the lamp stands. Well, are some churches going to fold their, you know, close their doors during this time while others explode and grow?

What is your word for pastors and shepherds? Go there in a moment. So let me just say this, though. For you, looking at the empty chair, I walked in, I got pretty choked up. How many times have you sat, you know, here with Charlie and now you're possibly your best friend, I want to speak? for you is gone just i mean you've got a job to do you're leading all but just personally as a human being as a pastor i just feel like asking like yeah where are you out in all of this you know a lot of these uh army guys and special forces guys reached out and they they said you know comes in waves don't don't don't don't be upset at yourself if you're not feeling what you feel like you should be feeling one moment and don't be upset if then the next moment you feel like you can't take a step

forward and that my man that is true like it is so true i've been you know there's moments like when we're getting ready for the memorial it was just we're so busy i didn't have a chance to think or grieve it was just like let's go you know we got we have a job to do and then you get done with that i remember i was on jesse waters on the monday and it was like jesse asked me that same question i was like you know to be honest jesse it's kind of hit me all over again it was like the come down after the after that big event and then this weekend you know it just hit me again um so i think that's just going to be the way it is and i'm not afraid of it i i embrace it you know i tweeted out i was like i can't believe he's gone because it still

doesn't feel real it still feels very surreal yeah it does and i miss him a lot and i you know these like old habits that you know we work together for eight years i um you know you're thinking about texting or you know or something funny or some something you know he would say about something and And I guess, you know, I just know that he's in glory. And, you know, as Erica said, he's on a work trip with Jesus. And I, you know, and I'm just truly humbled that I got to see it so up close. And I know that the whole team here in the studio feels the same way and at turning point. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you're grieving the loss of your friend and under tremendous work doing things that there's no precedent or playbook for. You're just doing the best every day. as you're able and your team's doing an incredible job. Well, thank you. I mean, honestly, that's one of the blessings of being with this large team, you know, because, you know, you're feeling weak and then you see, you know, somebody else, you know, really doing a great job and being courageous and you're like, I can do it too.

And I think we all feed off each other. And, you know, it's a team, it's a staff, it's a job, but it's really a family. And when something like this happens, it galvanizes you and really bonds you together. I think there could be a lot of really weird ways to handle this moment. And just my experience, I was looking in, a lot of discretion, a lot of wisdom, a lot of grace and how you guys are handling it. I just think it's evidence of the Spirit of God, leading you guys and giving you guys grace for this moment.

I mean, we've got the whole world praying. I mean, I'm very aware of that, you know. And I said it before, but it bears repeating. I think a lot of us feel it. Like, we feel the prayers of strangers. Yes. And that's a wild thing. You know, I've heard presidents talk about that.

before where you feel sustained by the prayers. And to know that so many people have been praying for us, I mean, I don't talk to a single person that doesn't tell me, we've been praying for you, you know. So thank you for asking. We love you. And you forget that like Charlie is a husband, he's a father, he's got a wife, he's got kids, he's got friends.

And to the team here, it was a very warm personal relationship. And sometimes in a media world, we think that people are just ideologies and not you know human beings with families and relationships yeah there was definitely this a very distinct effort the entire career to make him wooden in two-dimensional uh and to us he was always in you know technicolor 3d and one of the warmest most generous gracious loyal just good-hearted people and joyful and joyful funny it's hilarious i mean doesn't get nearly enough credit for how you know i want to charlie's secret us was he embodied truth goodness beauty. He was a truth machine that was anchored in the goodness

of the moral law of God and the wisdom of the word of God. And he was demonstrating real time with his beautiful wife and his beautiful kids, the beauty of the Christian worldview working itself out in the heart of a man. And when you combine that, just razor sharp logic on truth, a commitment to fundamental goodness for all mankind, and then living out the beauty of a Camelot story, a beautiful wife, a family he loved. It's a powerful one, two, three punch that you can't ignore. It's self-authenticating. That worldview is working.

I think that was part of what was so compelling about Charlie. What's amazing is how much Erica embodies all of those qualities as well. Remarkably. Always knew it, but to see her have this platform to be, I mean, we've talked about the Charlie effect, and now one of the things I'm seeing more and more on social media is the Erica effect, right? She could turn a whole generation of young women. And as he turned a whole generation of young men, if so, that would be revival. That's right.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, so it would be revival when you, because we've seen this movement with young men, but the women have been lagging. So, yeah, statistically, there's something called the GSS, it's the general social survey. It's sort of the gold standard, you know, for trends. There's a lot of bad polls. This is sort of a whole thing, yeah.

And so it's the poll from which a lot of other polls and social sciences are direct. Yeah. So they say that this is the most conservative. generation of young men in the history of polling they're trending to the right this is also the most progressive liberal feminist generation of women in the history of the world and so literally the democratic party is kind of the men's party and then the married women's party you mean the republican sorry sorry yeah and so the republicans are men and married women and then democrats are almost all women and progressive and so you've seen though what charlie helped to do was pull a whole generation

of young men uh toward conservative and what we're we would call traditional and biblical values and now what you've got with Erica is the possibility of her influence and example doing the same because those young men are going to need girls to marry yes they're not out there right now well there was a poll that came out that the number one thing that a young conservative man thinks would make them successful is having children in a family for young women it was 12 out of 13 so imagine this men want to have kids and women don't so there There needs to be a massive reorientation of the mindset. And what I saw with Erica was elegance and grace and courage and clarity and wisdom and devotion.

And it's like the worldview that she believes help contribute to the woman that we all admire. So if you admire the woman, examine the worldview. That's right. No, that's 100% right. And the line that always stood out for me from her speech, which it's noteworthy, by the way, given what we're talking about, that Erica chose to bring up the role of men and women in marriage. She went there in her speech, which I found to be a stunning kind of moment. It really stuck out to me.

And she says, you know, to women, your husband is not your rival. It's an amazing. I felt like that above so many other lines, like it just drilled down into this core tension in our modern. She put a spear to the heart of the Jezebel spirit. Yes. Wow. Thank you. That's exactly right.

yes. Well, by the way, we're talking about demons and demonism. So, I mean, maybe that's the right. I mean, when you talk like that, what do you mean? Maybe if there's people in the audience that don't know what you mean when you say that. So Jesus half brother, men named James, he actually uses a word in the Bible, demonic. So it's a biblical word in category. We got verses for it. Yeah. And so the Bible says that there are two realms that form one reality. There's the unseen realm of the spiritual. And then there's the seen realm of the physical. These realms were one. And until sin breach them. And now the unseen realm can still be involved in and have great impact on the seen realm. And so there are certain things that just evil doers will do. There are other things that you can't explain it apart from something that is a pure force of spiritual evil. And so, for example, when you see men sort of abusing, damaging, traumatizing children,

that's purely demonic you've gone beyond just making a bad decision to being oppressed or possessed person and so you know if you look at culture you see that we have a culture of death we have a culture of lies we have a culture of victimization where those who promote death and do lie

they think that they're the victims and they're virtuous I mean this is all demonic and what God creates Satan counterfeits and so in the realm of the demonic Like what we're seeing is we're seeing the demonic really come out of the shadows. And they're even looking at the assassination of Charlie. Like what is the causation? Did he have a bad family?

No. Did he grow up poor? No. Did his parents get divorced? No. Did he have any trauma? Not that we can see. Well, what was it?

Demonic. Satanic evil, a force of pure evil working through a human being to do inexplicable devastation to a family and a generation. And so, you know, if you believe in good and you believe in evil, you need to believe in God, you need to believe in Satan and spiritual beings. Well, and you talked about, there's that, you know, we know the verse, Charlie believed in this very much

that we do not, you know. Gussle against flesh and blood, powers, principalities, and spirits. Yeah, and so when you say she put a spirit through the spirit, the Jezebel spirit, is that, so you're saying it was a demonically inspired spirit of our age? Or what, you don't see many strong women today

who can stand up with beauty and elegance and confidence and competency and godliness build up men around them so i think one of the hearts of the jesville spirit is there's intimidation there's a jealousy of mankind it's genesis three you'll want his position erika didn't want to be charlie she wanted to be who god made her to be as erika and then helped charlie build up charlie encourage charlie and the partnership was dynamic and unstoppable i'm going to play that clip in just one second because I think it's so wonderful. This is the Charlie Kirk Show. We are all about saving babies with preborn.

There are 24,836 kindergartners starting school this month who would not be alive if it hadn't been for what preborn did in 2019. When a woman considering abortion sees her baby on that ultrasound and hears that baby's heartbeat, it doubles the chance that she will choose life. $140 gives five months. mothers a free ultrasound and saves babies. $280 can save 10 babies and just $28 a month can save a baby a month for less than a dollar a day. A $15,000 gift will provide an ultrasound machine that will save babies' lives for years and years to come. Charlie and Erica love preborn. Charlie loved it so much.

He believed in it so much. He was a donor. So I'll give the final word to Charlie Kirk. Whether you want to save one baby or five or hundreds, that opportunity is just a phone call or click away. Call 833-850-229 or click on the pre-born banner at charliekirk.com. You made this comment that I just felt was really powerful pastor, Josh. You said, when Erica said this statement that you're not rivals and she's defining the roles of men and women that she put a spear through the spirit of the Jezebel spirit of our age. Let's play this cut and then I'll let you finish that up. Clip 27. But please be a leader worth following.

your wife your wife your wife is not your servant your wife is not your employee your wife is not your slave she is your helper you are not rivals you are one flesh working together for the glory of God.

It's incredible. Let's go. It's incredible. It's so beautiful. It's putting a spirit of your heart of chauvinism that would look down on a woman. Yeah, got both sides. That's a good point. She was an equal opportunity.

Everyone got to get shot, you know, everyone got to get addressed. So chauvinism, there's no room for that in biblical Christianity. Feminism where men are put down and women are elevated. And so it was powerful. Can we read Bible verses? on this show. We could preach the gospel. Let's go.

Because you reminded me of this when you said it in 2 Corinthians 10. In light of talking about spiritual warfare, Mark, I'm interested in you think of this. Paul says this. He says, the weapons we fight

are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. Now watch this. We demolish arguments in every pretension that sets itself up

against the knowledge of God. That's what she was doing. And that's what made it so powerful. And then watch this. And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. Christians typically read that verse and a buddy mind pointed this out and we think of it as personal take captive my thoughts

you know don't don't have lustful thoughts whatever paul is referencing taking captive thoughts in the context of public argumentation he's calling christians to that's a wrong thought charlie was going around campuses and he was publicly taking captive those demonic thoughts and ideologies that really had the hearts and minds of students captive and he was saying that's a wrong thought that's a wrong idea and he was demolishing these strongholds that set them self-lobogous knowledge of God with the truth of the gospel and that's what erika was doing and that's what made it so strong yeah i mean charlie there's this great clip of him saying my job is to confront evil we might actually have that clip i think we do have that clip my job is to confront evil

and to proclaim the truth uh but let's just play this one just because it's fun to hear it in his own words let's play cut 28 this is charlie with tucker carlson this is why your faith is the most important thing. Because for those of us that are Christians, you actually see what's going on, which is that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and darkness and spirits, that there is a spiritual war here. There is a God, and we are not him, that there is an entire dimension of angels and demons and spirits that are constantly struggling around us, and that there is a supernatural dimension. Amen. Crushed it. That's a, No notes.

Well, see, part of it, too, I said this is I think that, of all the political pundits and commentators I've met, very few would qualify to be a pastor according to the qualifications in the Bible. Charlie did. His character, his marriage, his personal integrity. And so I think an entire generation that was not in church, but they were online, I think they looked at Charlie as not just a big brother, but they're pastor. So they were looking to him as to, okay.

well, you know, how do I get married? How do I have a family? What makes life meaningful? How do I know where the truth is? So Charlie was functioning as a pastor for an entire generation. And so when he died, even those who weren't Christians, they felt this devastating personal emotional loss. And that's why.

And then they went to church because that's what Pastor Charlie told them to do. And so I believe that he is well known for his political work. I think that now we're seeing his spiritual work was at least as equally impactful. Yeah. It was bigger. And so, I mean, that's, this is where I want to end this conversation in the time we have left. What's your word? So Erica said go to church.

Elon Musk retweeted it. Which is wild. I would hope that, I hope that he was tweeting it on his way to church. Dude. I mean, we, we saw Elon Musk singing along to Chris Conwin. Wow. Let's go. There's the, there's the tweet.

she's not a super active Twitter poster but when she does bingo she makes gold records is this she uh she thank you for doing this Erica yeah thank you and this is the Elon post that

he posted you know anyways my point is what's happening there I think is I don't know sure where Elon is with Jesus but there's just a recognition that cultural Christianity is good for everyone I think Elon is very well aware that he is not want to live in an agnostic atheist Muslim country. He wants to live in a Christian one. He wants to

live in one where people have virtue and honor and honesty and integrity and they don't target him just because they don't like the fact that he's so rich. I mean, I think he's, that all that's very much playing into this, but I got to believe that you do not sit through and he sat through so much of it. He sat through hours of gospel preaching. And you can't, it's hard to sit through that and to feel the Holy Spirit and go, it's not real. Yeah. Well, and to ask to what happens when I die and what will they say yes and what was so powerful about that memorial and probably be confronted with the fact that he's under incredible amount of threats that's oh his life is constantly in danger yes yes i was going to say a friend pointed out to me that was not an event that had been planned

for 10 months yeah that was a week the event we sat in that was so sweet and so powerful didn't exist 10 days earlier yeah and what it demonstrated was when you bump christians with tragedy what pours out is hope. Wow. That's so powerful. Well, and so what is the message to the shepherds,

the pastors out there, Pastor Mark, Pastor Josh, how do they pass this test and how do they, how do they step in to the anointing of this new wine that is being poured out in the country?

Because I think it's critical. One of the things Erica said, she said, shepherd them. Shepard them. So I'll pick it up there. There is a wild misunderstanding of what it means to shepherd.

So in the Bible, you know, animals are out of the, the field they're exposed to wolves and predators and so the shepherd has two jobs one to be tender with the flock two to be tough for the flock if we took out the word shepherd and we inserted the word cowboy you would have the biblical understanding of a pastor a pastor is supposed to be a cowboy supposed to be able to kill wolves and protect sheep and the problem we have today they're they're not fighting wolves and as a result, they're really not loving sheep.

And so, you know, the whole cultural phenomenon of the West and Western nostalgia and Yellowstone, people watching that, ultimately what they are thinking is this is what leadership should be like. It should be more like a cowboy. And so I think part of the new wine that is going to form a new wine skin will include pastors who are not just guys who feel comfortable holding sheep and walking around singing songs but they're cowboys that also know how to defend and protect and when a wolf shows up are not afraid to put him down. Dude, Charlie was a cowboy. He was a cowboy. Charlie Kirk was a cowboy and

he moved to Arizona and he fit really well because it's still a cowboy town. Well and he, you know, you're talking about the Old Testament would use the word shepherd, right? The, um, David was a shepherd but he was killing lions. Yeah. And that would come after the sheep. He was carrying bags of enemy's foreskins around on his belt yeah yeah yeah one two three not it he was exactly he was a dude he was a dude and i think that's what you're getting at right this like this there needs to be a little more masculine fortitude in leadership when i remember when you when i was sitting listening to your preaching you would talk about there was yeah there was this this thing that you would say you know we have this idea of jesus being this spandex wearing fairy princess that just you know is singing these

beautiful hymns in the clouds it's like no he look at revelation he's wielding a flaming sword you know and he's he's coming to destroy the enemy and to protect his people yes yes that's the storyline of the bible and so for the church fear is contagious and so is courage and that's what you saw with charlie if charlie had manifested fear nobody would have showed up for his funeral because he manifested courage there's an entire generation saying i choose faith not fear i church i choose courage not cowardice. Let's play this clip. This is Charlie with George Janco, who's also in the local area. Let's go ahead and play cut 30. These moments where you're fighting for your country and you're getting these threats, does it alarm and concern you for your children? I mean, yes and no. I mean, my wife is

the best person ever, and she's a patriot and she's a believer, and we don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes. And he asks, why did you not trust in me and not fight evil? Because we as Christians are called to fight evil. It's one of the lesser known Scripture is Psalm 9710. For those of you that love God, you must hate evil. Pastor Charlie. There it is. Well, it's funny because he spoke in so many churches,

so many churches in the last few years. And he was always very clear, like, I'm not a pastor. I'm not a pastor. You know, he was like, you know, didn't want the label. I think he was an accidental pastor. He was an, well, yeah, and, and, you know, that was all him. I remember when he was starting it, I was like, okay, Charlie, have you, have you met any of the church can be worse.

politics like it's brutal out there he talked about he was told early on not to combine the two and then somehow either on his own with your mentor and he's like no no we have to connect these two or we won't be faithful exactly he didn't bifurcate his faith he did not compartmentalize it so guys

you have so I guess I'm going to throw it to you pastor Josh you're at admonition your exhortation your encouragement for pastors you've got you kind of got it systematized you got a six point list well I appreciate the book of acts and just an encouragement every pastor should preach verse by verse to the book of Acts.

You'll see profound patterns that apply to this moment. Taco and pastors all across the country, I think there's reason to be encouraged. We are seen, I would call it like 3.0 church planner, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 church planner. They're bold, they're courageous, they're differentiated. They're not running the human calculus of how this is going to cost me politically, or will the board throw me out, will the big donor leave? They're just fearless for Jesus' sake, and they're seeing their churches explode. two, three, four, five years in, there's

5,000, 6,000, 7,000 people there are numbers I've never seen in my lifetime. So just to encourage people listening, God is moving and working. There's a remarkable crop of leaders coming up who are differentiated, fearless leaders. But here's what I've seen. There's three kind of categories of pastors.

There's the confused pastor who's calling me on Saturday. Are you going to talk about Charlie or not? I don't know what to do. And they're not necessarily nefarious or cowardice. They're just unclear, right? And so I want to speak to those. There's the cowards

who know what they should say, but have run the human calculus and what it might cost him and chose not to, then you have the captured. They're just playing for the other team. It's the fourth pageer, the courageous that I believe

see the anointing of God and the move of God in this generation. That's who Charlie was. And so this six-fold grid of a pastor is asking what to do. This is what I tell them to do. We got time for this?

Yeah. I'm going to hit right. Number one, set forth the truth plainly. We see Paul said, I preach to both Jews and Greeks repent. Charlie was brilliant at this. He had an ability like nobody I've ever seen to set forth the truth in a plain and understandable way. Number two, demonstrate the spirit's power.

Paul said, we came not with wise and persuasive words. Here's the thing. Was Charlie wise? Was it persuasive? Yes. But why was he so effective? Because he was working with the power of the spirit. He wasn't just there using man's arguments.

Jesus said, hey, don't worry about what you're going to say when you go before principalies and powers. I'll be there with you. That was literally Charlie's life. No notes, no AI in front of thousands of people on a microphone, right? I think he was a walking demonstration of the Spirit's power. Oftentimes the Holy Spirit's the most uninvited guest in our church. We have to invite the Holy Spirit. We have to plant, preach, grow churches that God wants to be at.

Church is for God, not for man. Charlie would say that often. Third, boldly proclaim the truth. Paul said, I have not hesitated. And many pastors hesitate. Should I, would I stop running the man calculus of the cost that it's going to require of you and boldly proclaim the truth? whatever the cost, because here's the cost

that you should run. Will I say something or not say something that could cost me the anointing of God? That's what matters. Not who leaves or who stays or who tweets about you, but what God thinks about you. And if that's the grid through which you run, the decisions that you make, you'll please the Lord

and He'll bless you. Number four, live not by lives. Eric Metaxus talks about the spiral of silence. The less people speak up, the higher the cost for those who do. We saw that with Charlie. Start speaking up. refuse to pretend that boys can be girls and men can lactate it it's like do not live by lies in silence in this culture is perpetuating the lies so we have to speak up about the lies if if if you're on the

wall it's being attacked and you're not at the point of the breach you're not being faithful number number five you got to enjoy the king charlie did this so well set forth a clear and compelling vision of the beauty of following King Jesus, which means don't stop laughing and loving while you're making war. We're to be laughing, happy warriors. And Charlie embodied that so well. He wasn't angry.

He wasn't brooding. He wasn't shadowy. I mean, he was strong. He was strong and happy, and that comes from Erica and his children. And lastly, we've got to fight downhill. And this would be my encouragement meant, stop ceding the home field advantage.

Right. And I think this might look like, if an institution is corrupt, need to step back from those corrupt institutions and start building new ones and better ones like arcs that people are drowning that ones that are doing the right thing that's exactly right that's i love that and uh we should make that available to every that list i've in the minute i have remaining i want to honor you pastor mark uh charlie loved this book this is called doctrine and it was when he was asked a couple weeks before uh he mentioned this book that this is one of the books

that was really impacting him and it's by you pastor mark and gary bachers and uh you uh you You generously have offered it free to this audience. So I want to make sure we have this on the lower. Text Doctrine to 99383. Please put that on that. There you go. Text Doctrine to 99383. You'll get a free copy of it, PDF.

You'll get teaching sermons and all, you know, all these other resources. Totally free. No strings attached. Just Bible teaching. Just Bible teaching. And here's the thing, guys. You can also go to Charlie Kirk.com. We're going to put it up for download there.

And I asked if there was some way we could help you. and you just refused, and I just want to bless you and honor you for that. Yeah, we don't want anything just to help. No, and it's just a really sweet gesture, and it's been my honor to host both of you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. We'll see you tomorrow, everybody. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.