The Charlie Kirk Show - Defending Charlie's Nominees and Charlie's Values

Episode Date: February 13, 2026

One of the most important goals of the show is to defend Charlie's legacy, and one of the most important pieces of that legacy are the Trump Administration nominees he fought hardest for. The show opens by fighting for Jeremy Carl, one of Charlie's favorite nominees who is facing smears from Democrats and cowardly opposition from a Senate Republican. Then, Saagar Enjeti of Breaking Points shares more of the science about why legalizing marijuana has been a disaster, and explains why he believes the Epstein files have vindicated beliefs Epstein was linked to intelligence agencies.   Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You've got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a turning point USA College chapter. Go start a turning point you would say high school chapter.

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The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers. All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. It's Friday, February 13th. It's an ominous sign, isn't it? Yeah, there's like two of those a year. Yeah, well, you know,

let's it, Friday the 13th, that's a thing. I want to start off today with the nomination of Jeremy Carl in the Senate as the assistant secretary of state for international organizations. Also referred to as assistant secretary of state. It's basically one of our guys who goes. to the UN. And if that sounds like an odd thing to focus on, it's not because one of our roles

with this show, one of the roles we have with Turning Point USA is we want to perpetuate Charlie's legacy. And one of the most immediate legacies he has is the people he fought to put in the administration. That he campaigned for, these are some of my favorite people, give them a job in the administration.

We've had Sarah Rogers on the show. She's one of the people he really wanted. She's been a superstar, by the way. She's amazing. We're going to be having her on again soon. She's all sorts of excitement. Can I just say I literally just did an interview with Politico before the show started talking about Nate Morris in Kentucky and about how Charlie's endorsement of Nate is still propelling him forward in that race. So it looms large. And yes, to your point, this is an important one here with Jeremy.

So Jeremy's another one he wanted. He was a frequent guest in our show. He was the author of the Unprotected Class, which is one of those really strong calling out how anti-white racism has become this pervasive thing. in America. 538 if you want to show that up. Not allowed to talk about it, but he did. And for that, he's been facing persecution. We'll just say, yeah, persecution.

Because he went before a Senate panel and had these parasites trash him for doing this. So this is a clip from yesterday, Senator Chris Murphy. Let's play clip 550. Mr. Carl, I think it's just heartbreaking that you have been nominated for this position and that you've reached a panel before the United States. States Senate. One of the things you have said is that anti-white discrimination is the most pervasive and politically salient form of racism today. Certainly this is my belief. I'm not running away from that. I think that while of course all races in different contexts can be

subject to really severe discrimination, that when we look at our legal structures, white Americans are often very disfavored in overt ways. Which is objectively true. It's completely the stance of this show. Yes. In California right now, they're fighting to change their law to be explicit. Oh, can we actually legally discriminated against white people? It's too hard for us to do it, you know, in the shadows. But in plenty of other states, it is explicitly legal. In our federal government, they've been doing it for ages. And they've been throwing temper tantrums at the Trump administration's attempts to roll it back. And he's highlighted that. And for that, they put him in the docket and just try to humiliate him.

Well, they're calling him a white supremacist, which is, it's funny because he's, and they're saying he's. And an anti-Semite. Yes, anti-Semitic. Well, Jeremy Carl grew up as a Jew, which is hilarious. You could show these images, 560, 561. So this is Senator Rosen. The Jews love to see themselves as oppressed, is what he said. 561.

A post-feminist America is one of falling fertility, rapidly rising out of wedlock burst, religious collapse, and an explosion of latchkey kids. All true. All true. All 100% true. And that's Shaheen, Senator Shaheen. I don't know what the heck the problem is. It's like they think saying the truth is somehow beyond the pale now. And what's funny is, and what's the clip with Booker? This is a fun one.

Actually, let's start here. 562. I think this is Senator Rosen, 562. Mr. Carl is infamous for deleting thousands of his past. tweets, but deleting tweets doesn't delete them. They recorded podcast interviews, public speeches, or editorials that he's done. As many of my colleagues have, and we'll point out, Mr. Carl's vile, anti-Semitic comments are very real. Whether he not, he tried to erase them or excuse them. Some may try to excuse Mr. Carl's remarks, claiming his words were taken out of context that he never said them and their own heritage protects him from criticism. So let me be clear.

identity does not excuse anti-Semitism. Identity does not excuse racism. Identity does not excuse hateful rhetoric. Regardless of who says them, words matter, as my colleagues have said. And she goes on like that for about two minutes. And it's so disgusting to me because this is what they've fixated on. They're going to say this guy is an anti-Semite so we can't appoint him to do President Trump's work at the UN. where spoilers, one of the main things we do at the UN is we actually have to constantly fend off resolutions that they do to basically attack two groups.

They love passing resolutions at the UN to attack Israel and they love passing resolutions at the UN to attack like settler countries which always include America. So they'll do these, you know, indigenous rights things, all of that. And he's made it very clear. He's going to pursue that agenda. He obviously understands, as Charlie did, that a huge number of the attacks on Israel are ultimately attacks on West. civilization, attacks on white people, like, you know, through that coded lens. And they fixate on him because he said things, which Charlie himself did, that are basically the constant fights over Israel often derail American politics and are not a good thing. That's what he said.

Yeah, no, Jeremy Carl is a completely mainstream America first, populist, conservative guy. There's nothing that stand out about Jeremy in this, in the sort of ideological sense. The only thing standout about him is that he's going to be extremely effective in setting right a lot of the wrongs of the sort of, you know, transatlantic sort of liberal hegemony, right? So here's, here's one that I just love. This clip with Senator Cory Booker is just amazing. And we're going to prove just how stupid Senator Cory Booker is on the other side of this, 525. What do you mean when you say that you believe in the great replacement theory? Senator, thank you for that question.

This refers to the intentional demographic replacement of Europeans in Europe. It was invented by Renaud Camus, who was a French scholar. You think there's an active effort to, quote-unquote, replace Americans right now? Senator, I think the Democratic Party through its immigration policies has certainly shown signs of that. And I don't understand that. I don't understand that. There's a great tweet that went vital and it's so good that like so much discourse in America

is just the left pretending not to understand things because of course they understand it. They'll brag about this. They'll have their meetings and they'll say, okay, guys, here's the countdown until white people aren't, you know, politically. I mean, Gene Wu, you just had that thing. hey guys we're actually the majority in this area we should just take over like wajahat ali you know the mistake you made was letting us in in the first place there is literally hours of footage

from just the two thousands of progressives going on television bragging about the browning of america and how we're going to turn everything democrat party this was the promise of the obama years that the demographic shifts in america were going to deliver a permanent permanent Democrat majority across the board because brown people vote Democrat. That was the whole point. There have been left-wing NGOs that have literally had a chart that's tracing out the white percentage of America in the future and they highlight the year it goes below 50%. And so that's what's going on.

And I want to make sure we hit this in this segment that Utah Senator John Curtis, a former Democrat, but somehow now got himself elected as a Republican, has said that for now he's opposing Jeremy Carl's nomination. After reviewing his record and participating in today's hearing, I'm not convinced that Jeremy Carl is the right person to represent our nation's best interests in international forums. And I find his anti-Israel views

and insensitive remarks about Jews unbecoming of the position for which he has been nominated, Curtis tells Deserate News. So we got rid of Romney and now we've got, you know, Tammu Romney here, John Curtis. So I'm going to we're going to hold our

you know, most strident opposition to Mr. Curtis and hope he corrects course here. Hey everyone, we're excited to tell you about Charlie's favorite supplement. If you experience brain fog, low energy, frequent illnesses, or if you just wake up stiff and achy every day, you've got to try Strong Cell. Charlie took it every single day. He frequently talked about it on the show and he even traveled around the country bringing it with him. For Charlie, Strong Cell helped keep his mind sharp and focused for all the debates he was. engaged in. Strong Cell gives clean natural energy without jitters, weird spikes, or afternoon crashes. It makes you feel like a younger version of yourself. People would often ask, Charlie,

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I want to play these two clips back to back. We just played one in the first segment, but I want to play it again. And then I'm going to juxtapose it with. one of the all-time favorite clips of Charlie on this show, 525 and then 563. What do you mean when you say that you believe in the great replacement theory? Senator, thank you for that question. This refers to the intentional demographic replacement of Europeans in Europe. It was invented by Renaud Camus, who was a French scholar. You think there's an active effort to, quote, unquote, replace Americans right now?

Senator, I think the Democratic Party, through its immigration policies, has certainly shown signs of that. And I don't understand that. I'm so confused. I don't understand that. 563. Here's the Castro brothers. Great throwback. Texas is a very, very Republican state.

But some people say the demographics are changing. and the demographics alone will make that, it won't be so Republican next time around. In a couple of presidential cycles, you'll be on election night. You'll be announcing that we're calling the 38 electoral votes of Texas for the Democratic nominee for president. It's changing.

It's going to become a purple state and then a blue state because of the demographics, because of the population growth of folks from outside of Texas. Oh, no, I think that's right. But it's not going to happen on its own. The demographics are changing, but it's going to take a lot of work from Democrats to lay the infrastructure for change.

So we're very busy working on that now. Oh, okay. So the demographics are changing in Texas. That's how they plan to change Texas. Here's the truth. Democrats have not won the white vote in a national election. Yeah. And they're highly aware of this.

In generations. So what do you make a bet? They cannot win with the historical American population. So they have banked on bring in a new population. Yeah. And they'll even write about, a betrayal where they didn't do as well with a Hispanic vote in 2024. And like, oh, it's a betrayal. Guys, the plan might have gone awry. And they'll try to repeat it again. That's part of what the

Biden operation was is if people are assimilating too quickly to not being Democrats, we might have to really flood the zone. Let's let in 15 million people amnesty them. That'll lock it in. Well, and I'm going to have Danny pull this social security numbers. The Biden administration in 24 gave out a record number of social security numbers just to try and juice the election. I'm convinced. I mean, we're talking, if we get the graph here, I really want to find it. It is stark. The difference between basically every other year and then 2024, they surged it. If you don't think for a second that they're not banking on demographic change to change the political future of this country, you are a fool and you're not paying attention. And I find,

this that younger conservatives understand this completely. The older you get, the more you're operating under an old paradigm where you, I don't know if it's civil rights, hang over, there you go. Look at 2024. That's how many Social Security cards that the numbers that the Biden administration rushed, surged to get out. And candidly in 2025, it's still too high. But it was probably a backlog, I'm told, from, you know, Biden pushing things through. So, hopefully that number drops back down to where it should be. But that was intentional. Big rush like naturalizations too.

They were trying to rubber stamp as many new citizenships as soon as they could. This was covered in the New York Times and other publications. No, this is a big thing. I think we wanted to highlight the Jeremy Carl instance because, you know, we do this with DEI, we do this with trans. You know, we looked at 2024 as this great rebuke of the excesses of woke, the excesses of is of radical progressivism. And yet we see this with Mom Doni. We see this in Seattle with their mayor. Brandon Johnson in Chicago. What happened in Minneapolis. Woke is not dead. Woke took a beating in

2024 and it has these little pockets of power, these strongholds, and they're going to regather their constitution and they're going to try and push out and expand again. And you just see this with the Democrats in the Senate about Jeremy Carl, a man once again, extremely competent, extremely qualified, who holds mainstream conservative views when it comes to race, populism, national sovereignty, immigration, replacement immigration. These are not controversial at all for half of America. And they walk into that Senate chamber and they go completely hysterical, acting completely shocked about the fact that we think any of these things. This is not a surprise anymore. We know it's happening. You guys have been called on it a ton. And we have immunities. We built up

immunities as a conservative movement to your garbage. Because apparently a senator from Utah is listen, that's a whole other thing. Listen, the senator from Utah, Senator Curtis, throw up his picture, would you? So people know this guy's, this guy's face. He's new. I believe he's the one who replaced Romney. This guy has been, I mean, I think he's kind of flown under the radar a little bit mostly. He's kind of gone along, get along, you know, to, he goes along to get along mostly. And listen, if that's going to be what your choice is in the Senate, fine. We'll live with it. But there has been so many troubling moments with this guy that he is a squish. He is an establishment guy.

Here's your offer. Don't do this with Jeremy Carl. And we're going to move on. And we're going to forget about you. We're not going to forget. But we're going to let this one go. But, man, if you try and draw a line on Jeremy. Carl, we will make loud noises. We will continue coming after you. We will not forget Mr. Curtis,

because this is obscene. And again, we'll end where we started. Charlie believed in Jeremy Carl. Charlie fought to get Jeremy Carl into this administration, and we will continue that mission without flinching Mr. Curtis. So don't try us. The online world moves fast and it's moving even faster these days. That's why we're why TikTok approaches teen safety with families in mind from the start. Because discovery and creativity are both wonderful things, but it's important to make sure that safety comes first as well. On TikTok, teenagers have over 50 built-in protections right from when they join.

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We still have hate mail coming up for that. Oh, still. People will still send that in. But no regrets. But he's also been a very vocal person. He was one of the ones, I would say over the last few years, one of the loudest voices against marijuana, which we also discussed with Alex Berenson yesterday. He was really one of the other ones beating the drum. He had a very viral tweet pointing out the sheer number of people who've gotten addicted to marijuana. And then he's really getting vindicated because now with the New York Times coming out and some others admitting, uh, actually the rush to legalizing it and subsidizing it and he gets to take a bow. Putting it everyone, big mistake. Saga, are you there? Yeah, take a little victory lap here.

for a second. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Look, it's not a victory lap because a victory lap for me is a tragedy for our country. We have, you know, millions, tens of millions, almost five percent of the U.S. population, a significant part of our adult population, which is using marijuana, high potency marijuana, on a daily basis. This is lobotomizing, a significant portion of our population. It lowers IQ. It lowers testosterone. It's dangerous for pregnant women. I mean, we could go down so many of the list, the number one pushback that I get. And I will say, gentlemen, you may find this shocking. I have spoken about the most controversial issues of the time. Ice, you know, BLM and everything. I have received hate mail many times. Daylight savings. Property tax, as you said, nothing inspires

more hatred for me personally than talking about the ills of marijuana. And in particular, the one I hear the most is about so-called medical benefits. I need to remind everyone that a massive study just came out, not even three months ago, written up by the New York Times, by Jama, major medical journals that shows that all of the claims, almost all of the claims of medical marijuana, are completely fake. And I think that what's something very insidious and dangerous about this drug is the worship of it by many of its users. People who are alcoholics do not try to justify their alcohol use by saying that it's curing them. It's a shameful activity. And frankly, I think it should be.

Like if you need to drink every single day to function, like you have a real problem. And I think that exactly the same thing with marijuana, except it's. proponents will say that there's nothing wrong with that. Our cultural norms around marijuana are encouraging high potency indulgence by huge segments of our population. There is no proper regulation. Unfortunately, you know, a significant part of both bipartisan America are being seduced by what is now big weed. I mean, these people make big tobacco look like choir boys with the way that they have been lobbying, not only this administration, but others to get Americans as hooked on this drug as possible and to keep out responsible voices who are warning about its problems, just like

Alex Berenson did with Tell Your Children, which I highly recommend. If you are a parent, you need to buy that book, you need to read it and need to keep your kids away from this substance. Now, Sager, so we agree with you, but we get a lot of emails. We got several just yesterday. We got a lot of hate mail, but also people, we had the ones who said, I got cancer or I have cancer, and I take it, and I think it helps with it a great deal. Do you think those stories are authentic or do you think they're confusing maybe other medical effects with marijuana? Yeah, I mean, Blake, as we've said, you know, the annex data is not data. And the actual medical review of these claims does not hold scrutiny.

And by the way, you know, one of the biggest pushbacks I get is like, why don't you talk about alcohol? I don't drink alcohol. I believe Charlie stayed away from it as well. I, you know, we all talked about that previously. And, you know, I all happily talk about some of the dangers of that. But again, alcoholics are not trying to justify their alcohol use. You know, one of the things I've also warned about, there was a more recent study. I believe he was out of the state of Ohio or Michigan.

I need to go back and to check. But it did show that a significant portion of driver debts whenever they checked their blood had high levels of THC such potent enough for them to cause impairment in driving. People who, you know, go after alcohol like to talk about correctly DWIs and impaired driving. But everybody seems to ignore that we have a significant enough cannabis crisis. Is this for people who are driving while high? Nobody, nobody is paying attention to these. So I would just say to that person, the same way I talk to people whenever I talk about the dangers of SSRIs. It may have made you feel as if it worked in that case.

But in a longitudinal study, we see that it does not hold even close to the same benefit, let's say, of things with not even near the amount of danger like exercise and or diet. So these claims, while we can take individually, when we study them in the long term, we see that on the whole, they do not hold up as promise. And look, like, not to get lewd, but just yesterday, you know, as a joke, I was tweeting about cannabis suppositories, which I did not know was a thing. And yeah, so that's a thing. It's extremely hypotent.

And, you know, the criticism I got is, like, you're making fun of cancer patients. And I went to the website, which is selling these cannabis suppositories. And what's the very first thing that it says? A discrete ways to use cannabis, right? Like, even the sellers are in our. on the joke. Like, they use medical marijuana as a claim to try and give it some veneer of health, when in reality, this is about addiction. And it's a tragic story. You know, marijuana is not a costless drug. I highly recommend people, you know, read Alex Barronson's book about psychosis.

Check out Andrew Huberman's work on the topic as well. It's ruining your sleep. If you're a young man in particular, if you want to have a family, it's effect on testosterone, on your ability to have children, people are not telling you the truth. And then similarly, with a lot of pregnant women, every pregnant woman in America knows you should stay away from alcohol. Unfortunately, because of this medical worship culture around marijuana, they are using marijuana in some cases for pain relief or others because they believe the propaganda of costlessness. And it is already causing problems for children in the womb, not to mention the explosion of something called cannabis hypermesis syndrome, which you can all look up. Scromating is an effect where you're just like

significantly vomiting people you know children teenagers and others who are vaping this very high potency drug ask any ER doctor in your life they will know exactly what I am talking about this is a crisis it's a full-blown crisis yeah I think yeah I was going to say that the two things that hit me what you're talking about Sager is the driving while high this is I mean high school kids this is a famous famous thing for high school kids they think it's like a joke so I think you're absolutely right we should make progress on passing law that, you know, maybe we already have them, but like actually enforcing them. So that's one thing. Young men in the schizophrenia thing. You saw the Brett Cooper tweet that went

viral. That's another, because that THD is so much more potent now than it was, you know, back in the 60s and 70s. Here's the last pushback that we got as far as emails yesterday. And by the way, people feel free to email us. Freedom at Charlie Kirk.com. Give us your thoughts. I know a lot of you disagree with this. There's a libertarian streak in the conservative movement, especially when it comes to marijuana. They say, hey, listen, these things are all legal, cigarettes, drinking, you know, marijuana should be considered the same. What is your pushback directly to that libertarian? Like, just don't get off my lawn, government, don't tell me what to do, leave me alone. I hear you. I hear you loud and clear. However, we accept as a society that total freedom would

be anarchy. And so we have to have well-established norms. And when your freedom begins to have high levels of societal costs and cause danger and medical crises and significant, significantly ramp up, let's say, you know, violence in some cases. You know, by the way, guys, we haven't even talked about the mass shooter angle. The number of mass shooters who are cannabis addicts is unbelievable, even though it's a relatively small subset. So SSRI certainly should be discussed, but that's another angle through which we should. The point around it is that nobody is saying, at least me, I am not saying that you

holding a dime bag should send you to jail. What I am saying is that we need very well-established norms and regulation to keep these companies which are selling these products of extremely high potency with no limits on advertising, no, you know, actual analysis of its claims, no safeguards to try and keep it away from children. And I encourage people to try and to think in that way. This is a normative conversation in the beginning. Like really what I'm talking about here is culture, perhaps, more than anything. The same way that we have, you know, conquered smoking in the United States, largely. Same with drinking at some of the higher echelons of society. We've seen drinking come down

significantly. We need to do the same thing with weeds. I'm just thinking about the tragedy of, like, because we had that peak where, oh, actually, marijuana is great. And in fact, it has, it has health benefits of anything. There's no drive back to marijuana. When we started to legalize it, it, it wasn't even just, oh, it's legal now. We were getting, Democrats were having these bills to subsidize it. So, like, former convicted drug. dealers like black Americans could open their own weed stores so we could have as many weed stores as possible

in low-income neighborhoods and I'm just thinking we're going to look back at this in 10 years 15, 20 and that will be the new argument they use to prove why America's racist they'll say not only did they legalize weed they subsidized putting weed into black neighborhoods and it's going to be so hard to explain

no actually that is what liberals were doing as a do-gooder thing you know I'm thinking like Tyler Robinson and his like Lance Twigs. Yes. The shooter and Tumblr Ridge the other day apparently was taking a bunch of this.

You think about the delivery mechanisms of modern weed with vaping versus you go back into your mind like what the hippies were doing it's like the hippies you get around a bong

and it would be like they had like an actual plant they took off some mountain but it was like almost it was just it took a lot more effort right to get around you had to get it already and now it's like

oh you know you're just sitting on the couch watching TV vaping. And it's just the, and by the way, the dosage is so much higher. It's like that it's so much easier to make it a chronic repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat kind of like usage thing. It becomes much more habitual. But another component of all of this, which cannot be lost, is that when marijuana is legalized, you invite corporate actors that are very, very good at making things addictive. The operative question, the most important question, will more people using weed make America a stronger, better, happier, more joyful country 50 years from now or less so?

Some people say it will make it that way. I completely disagree. I think the data is totally different. That was Charlie on the marijuana threat. We obviously want to highlight that because he was a big fighter, even when it was super unpopular. Man, the emails he would get. You guys were, he would fight him off. He was always a warrior. He didn't care if he took a bunch of hate for it. Hi, folks. Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at Y. Reefi.

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There was an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal the other day by Barton Swame, and he argues, the Jeffrey Epstein files were supposed to uncover the financiers sex trafficking and blackmail operations. They haven't, for the excellent reason that there were no such operations. So we've had guests from both sides. of the spectrum saga. Some arguing, actually, one argue, the real villain in the story, he says, is Virginia

Guffrey herself, that she was a fabulous and she kind of created the big conspiracy theories out of nothing. And like, Epstein's sleazy. You know, Epstein might be sleazy. He did like underage girls. But that was the limit of what is wrongdoing was. Now, I know you are, have generally been a believer in, we'll call it the big tent Epstein theory, that there is a lot that is still hidden a lot to be found.

So what are you currently thinking with all the files that have been released? I understand that argument. However, I often find that they're arguing against a straw man, as if that was the only claim, let's say, in the Big Ten community. I would say that if you were to widen your aperture, that the confirmation of the core claim, which was that Epstein was obviously involved in a highly powerful network that involved governments and intelligence agencies,

that you really can ignore all of the evidence that we now have, not only from the files, but from the previous release that would happen before, as well as a lot of the information that was already in the open source environment. And so one of the things I find very frustrating is that, yes, there became this kind of what I would call like a low IQ conspiracy of a client list where they would say blackmail tape and then so he would write exactly next to it what he blackmailed for. I'm sorry. I mean, I think that's a very unsophisticated understanding of how power influence and yes, in some cases, blackmail works. But it also ignores, frankly, the memo where Epstein memorialized to himself some very salacious. claims that were made against Bill Gates. And guys, I can tell you, having had access to tens of thousands of Epstein's hacked emails that I read through, I would venture to say I read through every single one. He was very often in the business of sending himself exactly these types of emails, memos, and others to memorialize certain conversations, send them to lawyers, and keep tabs on others' individuals. Now, smoking guns largely do not exist. For people who are

in law enforcement will understand what I am saying. You have to be able to connect the dots. And what we see is not only all of the compromising photos that have been released, let's say, of Lord Mandelson, of Prince Andrew, many of these others, rich and powerful people. But it really belies what I would say, the ignoring by a lot of the people who don't want to see a bigger network here of Epstein's work with these intelligence agencies. And the reason why the intelligence agency question is central and the most important is that his usefulness to this very powerful network of government's intelligence agencies all across the world. not just one single intelligence agency, is what enabled him to get away with some of his more salacious activities that everybody else likes to focus on. No, listen, I think the intelligence, I tend to be, I lean more on your side here, because his whole rise to power, his whole, how rich he got, the Les Wexner connections, this

revelation that Lex has now been listed in the files as a co-conspirator. The question about when are we going to see indictments. We were told, actually, yesterday by Chip Roy, that he asked Pam Bondi specifically if some of these other investigations are ongoing and can we expect some indictments. Apparently, yes is the answer that they're working on the co-conspirators. But I tend to think that he was connected to Intel. And I agree. There's this, I think, a low IQ take on what that means. It's like, here's your $10 million. Now, you know, send these arm shipments over here and then we're going to like bury it over here. People think of it in very black and white terms. He was very good at insinuating at reminding people of what he knew, that he was keeping tabs on everything. And it's

a soft power. And you're right. It enabled him to get away with this really gross lifestyle over the years that was a, you know, people kind of turn the other other cheek to. So I tend to think, I tend to agree that I think he was connected internationally. I think he had a power play. But I do tend to think that the sex thing, which is what a lot of people hang their hat on, is probably less salacious than people want to believe. Because Virginia Guffrey was the one that recruited a lot of these young women, underage women. And they were taught to tell, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, oh, I'm 18 and everything's fine and put on makeup and dress a certain way. There's no question that Virginia Guffrey had her own problems. Okay. And I don't want to, you know, totally besmirch

the dead either. We shouldn't forget that she committed suicide and she really was driven. She had a torturous life, okay? And we also saw a lot of images that showed that she did certainly have, you know, a lot of connections inside of Epstein's universe. But I want to come back to what you said. And then let's also do what investigators do. They rule out other possibilities. One of the reasons why rich people said they associated with Epstein was tax advice. Well, now we have access to millions of his emails.

There's no tax advice in there. Zero. Leon Black, the head of the Apollo group, who's worth $9 billion, said he paid him $150 million for tax advice. Can't find a single email of any tax advice. The only advice that I found is he found like a business insider article and sent it to one of his accountants. Sorry, that doesn't pass muster. Second with Les Wexner, he was the greatest financial mind I've ever seen. As I said, I've read his unredacted emails, which I gained access to.

There is no sophisticated financial engineering going on. You can also read Jason Leopold over at Bloomberg News. He read through it. The only real thing we can come away with how he made his money is either blackmail and other types of criminality. For example, what is UK politics exploding over right now? Insider trading over being given

a heads up by Lord Mandelson about an upcoming bailout. Similarly, trading information, let's say, with Prince Andrew, who at the time was the UK Trade Advisor. That is the actual glimpse into how he made his money, but remember, the intelligence connection is important because it goes to the beginning.

This is a person with a fake Austrian passport at the height of the Cold War, long before he is a multi- millionaire or even a billionaire. Vienna, by the way, was what? The capital of spies and the nexus of East and West. This is the person in a relationship with the Khashoggi family, with the lease family, who are at the heart and center of Iran-Contra. This is a person who is involved in $100 million Ponzi schemes, in some cases stealing some of the money from there, and an expert in money laundering, moving money across the globe, which is what enabled these arms deals with

Israel, with the coat of war, with Russia, with everything. That is his expertise. Blake, are you beginning to, are you more convinced? That was pretty compelling from Sega. All those connections. The early stuff, so I think I've talked to you about this in other venues saga, but I always wonder there's a person you might be familiar if I don't want to name him right now. But I kind of just wonder if maybe the skeleton key of Epstein is he's just a scammer who's like almost a pathological lie. He's lying all of the time.

And so it would make sense for him to like the answer to why he gets rich in New York Times wrote about this a few months. ago that it seems the secret to how he got riches he may have just kind of scammed people or robbed people well he robbed less wexie yeah like less wexter basically says oh he embezzled money like he impressed me and then he just started stealing like crazy and before you have the internet before you have as much financial sophistication as we have now it was easier to get away with that reputation matters more you might have more people who would say i got scammed and i have to sort of just shrug and go with it because otherwise i'm too humiliated to keep my business going and i wonder if that is sort of the answer and that could go to the Intel thing. What if it's less that he was super plugged in with

Intel and more that he would let everyone believe he was super plugged in with Intel and he he would feed this narrative. Like what if the answer is just Epstein was really charismatic, really good at tricking and leading people along? And really good at Robinville. Yeah. Yeah. It would be possible if we didn't have evidence of him brokering Israeli's military sales to Cote d'Ivoire. That's another thing is not just Cote d'Ivoire to Mongolia or making a security agreement between those two countries. He's at the nexus of an FSB agent who is a graduate, sorry, an FSB graduate of the academy in Russia, who becomes the head of a major economic development fund in St. Petersburg, who he then later emails for help in getting rid of a woman

who is blackmailing, who very rich people in New York City, including sending her his address asking for help. I mean, I'm sorry, like this does not pass the muster, sorry if I shouldn't curse, but, you know, it doesn't pass. muster for this idea that he was a scammer because we have too much concrete evidence of his actual dealings with all of these arms trafficking networks, including with other intelligence agencies. Another very important email I found in the files. This is a file where you see an email exchange between Aoud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel, and Epstein. Aoud is meeting with the Qatari Investment Fund right before Epstein says, by the way, please remind them, I don't

work from Mossad, right, with a smile. face that's there. Aoud Barak says you or I, Smiley, and Epstein says both. And in these cases, it's pretty clear that the Qatari's thought he did work for Mossad. Now, maybe like you guys said, this is all part of an illusion. But there is a bit of

a joking nature between Aoud Barak and his relationship here with Epstein. Aoud Barack, by the way, was also the former head of the military intelligence. He helped Epstein, by the way, funded millions of dollars into one of his defense technology startups, a palenteeer-esque spyware type

system, which we have long seen that we use private conduits, people like Epstein, to fund some of these black activities that happen outside of the normal official parameters of the CIA. By the way, you know, bringing it back to Iran-Contra. Maybe some of the audience doesn't even know what I'm talking about. The reason why Iran-Contra was so significant is that it was the CIA and the intelligence community that was doing what it had always done, except now we're in a post-church committee environment. So after the church committee with real oversight by the United States Government and Congress, they can no longer just, you know, fund arms here, traffic some drugs there, send arms to over here. What they have to do is use these arms dealing sketchy

conduits like Epstein, like Khashoggi, like we have Douglas Lee, so many others that were implicated in the scheme. You need these individuals. The CIA cannot just open up a bank account that says CIA down in Nicaragua. You need people who are high. You need people who are highly sophisticated money launders. Jeffrey Epstein works at Bear Stearns under Ace Greenberg. Remember, with zero experience after supposedly meeting him while he was teaching his son at the Dalton School in the 1970s. CEO of Bear Stearns hires him, and he gets fired from Bear Stearns,

allegedly because dealing in some of these sketchy activities. But it's not like he's cut out entirely. He goes and he opens his own investment management fund, except there's no evidence of any real investments or anything made. In the 1980s, he declares that he will only manage the money of people worth over $1 billion, which is extraordinary. There were like 11 people in the world who were worth $1 billion or so at that time. Nothing passes the smell test in every single one of these cases, and it all points to a very sophisticated,

what I think is a money laundering operation that at times intersected with the intelligence community. The CIA, by the way, one of the important things from the files is Epstein foyering the CIA for any mention of himself in the year 1999. And then again in the year 2011. Well, so I think that, I think my, my conclusion here is, is approximately this, that when you are a business and you put out an RFP, right, for a request for proposal, and there's a couple of different people that could meet your needs. And then they send you back what they can do, and then you pick one. I think Epstein was just a gun for hire out there that if you wanted to do something sketchy, maybe he could, he could kind of,

facilitate it here make it look kind of by the books or whatever and that was about it and he knew a lot of people so he had a lot of connections he was sort of a known commodity in this sort of seedy underworld and that you know but he he kept an air of being a legitimate financier i think it you know he so what did he work for massad sometimes did he work for the c a sometimes like it did he work for the russians sometimes i have one last question for you sager and then we've got a probably we've like one minute. So at this hearing with Pam Bondi, you had all these victims stand up behind. But then I find out, because I was looking at Michael Tracy's Twitter, they were all adults at the time when the, you know, sexual activities happened. They were getting money. Some of them were getting cars, kickbacks, whatever, tuition.

What, how is this different than just prostitution, which would be sort of consensual? I'm confused there because victims wouldn't, you think that they're underage or something. What's your take on that? Well, Andrew, I would challenge you very hard on that. I mean, I thought we were here on a conservative show. I don't believe that there is any such thing really is like consensual or sex work

and not deeply exploitative as an industry. I think it's incredibly deeply exploitative. But again, it gets to this point of, I think what I'm pushing back against is this idea that there was like, I think because the narrative, is that there's all these underage girls that got, you know, trapped and drugged and done to do things against... There's wilder stuff. Sacrifice.

Yeah, like, and really, it was basic prostitution is what it seems like. He would go and recruit them. It was basic prostitution in the cases that you're talking about. But remember, even in the original indictment in which he ends up where he's charged, that he does admit to a 17-year-old and a 14-year-old was also there. It's all in the documents. You can go and read for yourself. But I just...

Yeah, no, no. I really just pushed back hard against this idea. because like flying women across the world to have sex with them is an expressed violation of the man act. Oh, I think it's completely illegal. Don't get me wrong. Conservatives, we have to stand up and be like, absolutely not. Like we protect women who are being deeply exploited in these Eastern European countries, sold false bills of goods, who are saying they're going to some model,

being pressured on an island, like you're saying in the 1990s or in the 2000s, when there's no internet or able to escape. So, you know, look, I may be getting a bit prickly on this. but just because people are of age doesn't mean that they're not being exploited. No, I don't. And that happens all across our country. You're not getting prickly. No, I agree with that.

When I'm pushing a back against is this, I think there's this, it's just a narrative around Epstein where it's just all of these, I think you just assume it's underage and they were all 14. And then you find out Virginia was recruiting them. Anyways, we got to go. Zager, it's been wonderful having you, my friend. Thanks, Blake, for setting it up. Of course. We'll have you on again soon.

Thanks, guys. Nice chatting with you. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.